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Kid Minneapolis
04-18-2011, 10:53 AM
If anyone pays attention to me, which is probly not the case :) you probly know that I was one of the rather small group supporters who loved the Hansbrough pick, when most were screaming that his game wouldn't translate to the pro level.

To me, it was ridiculous at the time for people to think that, but that was the consensus of many many basketball heads. Looking back, I'm guessing, or at least hoping, that a lot of people are now realizing that yes... that was a ridiculous notion (to think that he couldn't play at this level).

I understand why a lot of people did think it though... When it comes to body parts, the guy doesn't have an 8-foot wing-span, a 40-inch vertical, a 4.25 40 yard dash, but he has something 99% of players don't have and I feel like everyone was completely disregarding --- the heart of a champion. In fact, if you could measure that alone, I could argue that there are maybe 1-2 players in the entire NBA who have equal or more of that particular measurement (Kobe, Rose). Kobe and Rose have ridiculous physical gifts --- Hansbrough does not. He achieved everything he did through sheer determination and will. It's tremendous to think about.

If you were to follow Hansbrough on a purely virtual level through college, and not have access to actually visualize him, you'd think he was far and away a #1 pick, a sure-fire franchise player. Looking at his college stats and achievements, he was arguably the best college player in a decade.

The problem occurred when people looked at him. He's non-descript. He's not huge. He's not stupidly fast. He wasn't jumping out of the gym. He wasn't raining threes from halfcourt. He's just this... dude. This white dude who can't jump. And bam --- expectations lowered.

So it was no irony, to me, when another non-descript white dude who couldn't jump with generally-regarded non-athleticism but equally impressive college achievements (maybe even less) --- drafted him. Larry Bird said "I like this guy."

That should be enough for anyone to say "hey, you know what, I make the correlation, and if Bird likes this guy, he's legit." Instead --- everyone said horrible pick. Reach.

He started off his rookie year like any rookie, with little playing time, some bumps, a lot of adjustments to make, but we never really got to see the kid. Then the vertigo thing happened. Freak development... (and I happen to sympathize with Hansbrough on this because I too suffer from bouts of vertigo, and I know how much it can suck). I had a feeling that they would get it straightened out though, because my vertigo straightens out. It was just a matter of time.

When he finally recovered, I made the realization that the new hurdle for Hansbrough to cross was Jim O'Brien. About this time I was starting to really want to move on with a new coach for a ton of reasons (mainly for a better team system and new culture), but increased involvement for Hansbrough was one of those reasons, too.

Vogel was just what the doctor ordered. He did a lot of things right, imo, but one of them was putting more of the team on Hansbrough.

--------------
Remember the 6-game losing streak that made the Pacers look like they could've been beaten by my little brother's AAU team? Think back to that stretch of hapless basketball. To that stretch of ball that put us back out of the playoffs, and had many people thinking "tank." Think back to the turning point when all looked lost... the mood changed.

It was Hansbrough. You could see it. When all the rest of the players were sleep-walking through a long series of unfortunate possessions and not seeming to care, it was Hansbrough who came in and without saying a word but using pure energy and determination told all of Pacers nation --- I'm not giving up. The rest of this Pacers nation probably has, but not me.

It was during the worst stretch of Pacers basketball that I can remember that Hansbrough showed his heart, by throwing out 17, 26, 21, 20, 29, and 30. When everyone else got worse, he got better, when no one thought he could. He can. Few players have this ability.

That's the heart of a champion. His level of play stirred everyone, from players to fans. And we played ourselves back into the playoffs the rest of the way. What if Tyler Hansbrough hadn't have happened? Would we be talking playoffs today?

When the experts were predicting that we'd be swept, I thought "you may be right". But there's one player that I can't count out. I was thinking, "It's the playoffs. Post season. That's Tyler Hansbrough time." You KNEW this guy was going to show up. This is where he made a living in college.

The Pacers came out and delivered a statement in Game 1, even if they did dominate the Bulls for all but 2.5 mins of the game only to lose it at the end. And while we had great contributions from many players, it was the play of Hansbrough that set the tone. His energy, scrappiness, will to win rippled throughout the entire team. His killer jumpshots were clutch. This 37-45 team wasn't supposed to be answering Chicago's runs, but here he was knocking down huge shot after huge shot. We weren't supposed to be leading by 10 with 3 to go, but there's Hansbrough coming back from being almost knocked unconscious to steal the ball at the top of the key (how often do you see a PF do that?) and thunder down the court for a huge dunk and-1 that sent the Chicago fans reeling. That happened with 3 minutes to go in a playoff game against the best team in the league on their home court. Don't think this guy has a killer instinct or the heart of a champion?

The rest of the game showed that this young team still needs to learn to close a game out, but you know everyone in that stadium, as Frank Vogel said, "doesn't want to play Tyler Hansbrough" anymore. Boozer doesn't wanna play Tyler Hansbrough. As ridiculous as that sounded to many a few months ago when Vogel declared it... it's not sounding so ridiculous now.

He's my new favorite Pacer, even if he doesn't have Michael Jordan's physical gifts. On top of his intrinsic gifts, he plays the game right, he is respectful, he never gives up, and he is going to represent the Pacers well. He's a championship level player, a guy who can contribute to a championship team and maybe even be a focal point. He's exactly what everyone thought he couldn't be.

LucasRL13
04-18-2011, 10:57 AM
Great post Kid

Trader Joe
04-18-2011, 10:59 AM
I like how people talk about Rose having the heart of a champion and he gets compared with Kobe.

He hasn't even won a ****ing playoff series yet.

NuffSaid
04-18-2011, 11:00 AM
I don't watch much college basketball except for March Madness. So, I knew very little about Tyler Hansborough on draft night. But when I started hearing the announcers talk about his college stats and accomplishments, I figured I'd look the guy up online and see what all the fuss was about. I must admit, I was very impressed...

Four-time All-American. You don't accomplish such a feat unless you can really play basketball. People criticized him for being one of those players who doesn't score very many points from the field, but instead gets to the foul line and gets his points that way. Well, if you look at how many times Derrick Rose got to the line (atleast 21 times), is it any different? No, Tyler Hansborough won't score the ball using fancy, flashy moves, but he's as tough as they come and will fight for every possession. Next to Jeff Foster, he's the scrappiest player on the team.

Now, Tyler still needs to work on his game, specifically playing more under control and driving hard to the rim AND finishing, but I think he certainly has what it takes to be a force in this league.

I'm glad the Pacers got him. It's what this team has been missing since the Davis Boys left....someone who plays "smash-mouth basketball" and isn't afraid to get in their band throw his body around. But more important, he can score the ball.

Unclebuck
04-18-2011, 11:06 AM
In the short term I am anxious to see how he responds to the Bulls defense when they adjust.

But longterm, I've been a big fan of Tyler's since I first saw him play last season, and he's come a long way since then for sure. Anyone who plays as hard and tough as he does and has the skills he does is a keeper.

He's the type of player who I never worry about having trouble dealing with pressure of a big game. Although I was scared to death when he was laying on the floor last game and then almost fell in the tunnel all the while saying he was OK.

Trader Joe
04-18-2011, 11:08 AM
The big thing that impressed me was that he hit his first shot right after he went off. I almost didn't want to put him back in the game, not only because I was afraid he would hurt himself again, but because I didn't say anyway he'd continue to play at the level he was and assumed that his rhythm had been thrown off, but nope first shot after he comes back...buckets.

15th parallel
04-18-2011, 11:24 AM
I was one of the people who wanted Hans to be on the Pacers on draft day. He even led the poll on Indystar as the most probable pick by the Pacers, but I was just surprised how so critical the people here on PD about Hans.

He didn't let me down. It's just a matter of time until he flourished as a big-time scorer. He may not be that consistent yet, but he's clearly evolving into a reliable scorer from down low to mid-range. All of his flaws can be worked on the next offseason, so imagine that he's contributing despite having very little training and having to lose games due to vertigo. He may not become a superstar-level player, but he can be a major piece for a championship team. He's like Manu Ginobli in terms of impact; plays somewhat unorthodox and intense, but when he clicks he's hard to stop and gives a big impact to games.

Unclebuck
04-18-2011, 11:24 AM
I might be imagining this or maybe hoping it to be true. But I think Tyler finally felt 100% comfortable because it was an intense playoff game. Almost like he realized while playing in the game yes now this is fun and this is what I live for. We'll see what happens from this point, but no reason why he shouldn't feel like the playoffs are made for his style of play because I think they are

Trader Joe
04-18-2011, 11:34 AM
I agree Buck, the game slows down a bit, being able to hit a mid range jumper and trade blows with anyone really becomes a valuable trait in the playoffs.

Peck
04-18-2011, 11:56 AM
I might be imagining this or maybe hoping it to be true. But I think Tyler finally felt 100% comfortable because it was an intense playoff game. Almost like he realized while playing in the game yes now this is fun and this is what I live for. We'll see what happens from this point, but no reason why he shouldn't feel like the playoffs are made for his style of play because I think they are

Yip, I agree.

Some people are just made for the big stage & Tyler proved in game one that he was meant to be there.

I'll say what I've been saying since he has had his chance now, when he hits that 15-18' jumper he is a different beast altogether because teams absolutely have to adjust to him & if they don't he makes them pay.

I'm still not thrilled with his four rebounds, he HAS to improve there, but overall going into a playoff series I would rather have him on our team than not.

Lou Bega
04-18-2011, 12:06 PM
Kidd Minneapolis, I would not be suprised at all in Tyler Hansbrough won a league MVP in his career. I believe in him that much. I like his game more than Blake Griffen's.

MTM
04-18-2011, 12:23 PM
As a lifetime Reggie Miller fanatic I don't mean to denegrate the man's amazing career, but Reggie Miller wouldn't be Reggie Miller if not for the playoffs and big games to prove himself. On Saturday watching Tyler reminded me of the way Reggie made me feel watching a playoff game. Nobody else on the team gave me that same feeling.

Trader Joe
04-18-2011, 12:40 PM
Plus we didn't even get a consistent two halves of basketball from everyone. I thought DC and Roy carried us in the first half, and Danny and Tyler carried us in the second. It'd be nice if all four could put it together for the full 48 tonight.

vnzla81
04-18-2011, 12:47 PM
Kidd Minneapolis, I would not be suprised at all in Tyler Hansbrough won a league MVP in his career. I believe in him that much. I like his game more than Blake Griffen's.

We are having a nice conversation here and then you come with the MVP talk :shakehead

BPump33
04-18-2011, 12:57 PM
Good interview with Tyler here. Mentions that they need to focus on rebounding tonight.

http://www.1070thefan.com/gradyandjoe/podcast.aspx

Lou Bega
04-18-2011, 12:57 PM
We are having a nice conversation here and then you come with the MVP talk :shakehead

I stated my well documented opinion about Tyler. If you want to attack my opinion please send me a personal message and quit wasting other's time trying to belittle my opinion.

Thanks

Diamond Dave
04-18-2011, 01:07 PM
So I walk into work today and the first thing said to me is "the Pacers came that effing close. I want to get me a Tyler Hansbrough jersey."

This from a guy who only watches a few games a year and does not follow the NBA much at all. However, he has seen Tyler play a few times this year. Never saw him in college. But he immediately fell in love with the way Tyler plays. An intensity level that is unmatched.

Tyler is just one of those human beings that you should never bet against. Some people are just winners. Tyler and Charlie Sheen are those type of people.

troyc11a
04-18-2011, 01:08 PM
As a lifetime Reggie Miller fanatic I don't mean to denegrate the man's amazing career, but Reggie Miller wouldn't be Reggie Miller if not for the playoffs and big games to prove himself. On Saturday watching Tyler reminded me of the way Reggie made me feel watching a playoff game. Nobody else on the team gave me that same feeling.

I dont think you denegrated Miller at all. Actually your post is very good and simple to understand. There would be no "Miller-Time" w/out those playoff games against the Knicks and Bulls. As a matter of fact, Reggie would not even be in the discussion for the HOF w/out those playoff moments.
The post season, right or wrong, seem to define the player. If Tyler continues to answer the bell, he will put and end to once and for all the stupid notion that this team needs a PF. The only way we need a PF is if we lose Josh to FA. Then we need a backup for Tyler.

Unclebuck
04-18-2011, 01:09 PM
MVP? No way. Seriously come on

BPump33
04-18-2011, 01:09 PM
So I walk into work today and the first thing said to me is "the Pacers came that effing close. I want to get me a Tyler Hansbrough jersey."

This from a guy who only watches a few games a year and does not follow the NBA much at all. However, he has seen Tyler play a few times this year. Never saw him in college. But he immediately fell in love with the way Tyler plays. An intensity level that is unmatched.

Tyler is just one of those human beings that you should never bet against. Some people are just winners. Tyler and Charlie Sheen are those type of people.

I actually won a Hansbrough autographed jersey at the viewing party on Saturday, but they announced it right after Korver hit that three so I was less than happy. Now, I'm pretty happy about it. :D Too bad it costs an arm and a leg for a decent frame.

Unclebuck
04-18-2011, 01:11 PM
Tyler and Charlie Sheen are those type of people.

OK we were having a great thread and someone brings up MVP and you bring Charlie Sheen into the conversation

vnzla81
04-18-2011, 01:18 PM
OK we were having a great thread and someone brings up MVP and you bring Charlie Sheen into the conversation

:laugh:

naptownmenace
04-18-2011, 01:24 PM
Was I the only one hoping that the last couple of possessions would go through Tyler's hands?

Regarding how I felt on draft night, I wanted Dejuan Blair or Ty Lawson but thought that Tyler would be a good player based on his high school and college success. I figured he would be a guy good enough to average 13 points and 8 rebounds a game in about 25-30 minutes a night.

The moment I started to change my view of him a little was in the game during his rookie season against the Bulls when he went right at and dunked on Noah with authority! He also had a great showing against the Spurs. I then started thinking he might be the solution at PF and figured he at least had enough ability to be a full-time starter.

The head injury and vertigo took all of that hope away. I was sure he wouldn't be able to play at his full level again. Any injury that keeps you off the floor for 6 months is one that could potentially be career changing if not career ending. I'm so glad that wasn't the case because like Blake Griffin it seems that sitting on the bench his rookie season and even through the first half of his second season (after a very impressive preseason) just made him hungrier and more driven to prove he could play and hang with the big boys in the league.

I'm glad things worked out the way they have with Tyler and I can't wait to see how good he'll be after a full summer of workouts and a full training camp.

TMJ31
04-18-2011, 01:31 PM
Plus we didn't even get a consistent two halves of basketball from everyone. I thought DC and Roy carried us in the first half, and Danny and Tyler carried us in the second. It'd be nice if all four could put it together for the full 48 tonight.

You really hit on a key point here.

DC played out of his mind in the first half. Roy started off very strong. Danny stepped it up in the 2nd half but was hurting us in the 1st.

If we can get 4 quarters of consistency from our starters, I think we can win against the Bulls every time we step out onto the floor. I think Game 1 showed that our "matchup problems" we supposedly have with the Bulls aren't as big as once thought if we are playing smart, tough basketball.

Our guys don't even necessarily need to play out of their minds good, they just need to be consistently solid, we can't give the Bulls lapses of time where the matchups suddenly wildly shift in their favor, I think that's the key to this series.

We shall see what tonight brings.

But getting back on topic of this specific thread, I fully expect the Bulls to adjust to Tyler tonight, and even if he isn't getting a dozen open 18 footers again, I am pretty damn sure he is going to find a way to affect the game positively.

xIndyFan
04-18-2011, 01:43 PM
I stated my well documented opinion about Tyler. If you want to attack my opinion please send me a personal message and quit wasting other's time trying to belittle my opinion.

Thanks

good luck with that :laugh:

too many guys here that enjoy being a dick. which is too bad, things would be better with more positive commentary. :sigh:;) :)

15th parallel
04-18-2011, 01:53 PM
Aside from his improvements, did anybody expect him to win the matchup against Boozer? It's just 1 game, but still it's a major development since everybody is just saying how Boozer will kill Hans on both ends of the floor, but it didn't happen as expected. Chicago may be adjusting now to Tyler, and this will make things easier for the other guys, especially Roy, DC and Danny.

owl
04-18-2011, 01:56 PM
Kid M said......"We weren't supposed to be leading by 10 with 3 to go, but there's Hansbrough coming back from being almost knocked unconscious to steal the ball at the top of the key (how often do you see a PF do that?) and thunder down the court for a huge dunk and-1 that sent the Chicago fans reeling. That happened with 3 minutes to go in a playoff game against the best team in the league on their home court. Don't think this guy has a killer instinct or the heart of a champion?"


The foul on that play came very close to being dirty. Boozer pushed very hard on Tyler
low and if he had not hung on the rim would have caused an ugly fall.

BPump33
04-18-2011, 01:58 PM
The foul on that play came very close to being dirty. Boozer pushed very hard on Tyler
low and if he had not hung on the rim would have caused an ugly fall.

Yeah, I was just talking about this with a guy from my office. I'm glad we got the And 1, but that almost a horribly dirty play. I had flashbacks of Bogut when that happened.

joeyd
04-18-2011, 02:01 PM
I had always hoped that Tyler would be a smaller version of Jeff Foster with offense. We are seeing more signs of this.

Trader Joe
04-18-2011, 02:34 PM
Outside of their intensity, I don't see any similarities between Jeff and Tyler.

Peck
04-18-2011, 02:36 PM
Outside of their intensity, I don't see any similarities between Jeff and Tyler.

I mean this as no disrespect to the great career that Foster has had but if Tyler does not have a signifacantly better career I will be dissapointed.

Trader Joe
04-18-2011, 02:37 PM
I mean this as no disrespect to the great career that Foster has had but if Tyler does not have a signifacantly better career I will be dissapointed.

Agreed.

And even on the intensity front, I think Tyler is significantly more intense. Jeff definitely knows how to put in work, but Tyler is a man. Watching Deng try to shove him and then Tyler barely move as Deng sort of got this "Oh **** did I just pick a fight I definitely can't win?" face was priceless.

Vogel said it one way, "Nobody wants to play Tyler Hansbrough." I'll amend it, I think soon no one will want to even **** with Tyler Hansbrough.

Eddie Gill
04-18-2011, 03:10 PM
Idk if this has been said somewhere yet, but the best moment of Saturday's game for me was seeing Tyler walk back out of the locker room. I don't think I was alone in thinking we could've seen the last of Pyscho T for a long time.

BPump33
04-18-2011, 03:11 PM
Idk if this has been said somewhere yet, but the best moment of Saturday's game for me was seeing Tyler walk back out of the locker room. I don't think I was alone in thinking we could've seen the last of Pyscho T for a long time.

I wanted to make that picture of the back of his jersey walking out my avatar, but I couldn't find the picture.

Trader Joe
04-18-2011, 03:12 PM
I thought it was cool the way the camera immediately zoomed back in on Tyler and even the announcers acknowledged it as a big moment. It was just nice to have that sort of feeling again. Tyler could have thrown on a superman cape at that point.

boombaby_rm31
04-18-2011, 03:19 PM
i hope he plays much better tonight!!!

BillS
04-18-2011, 03:21 PM
I mean this as no disrespect to the great career that Foster has had but if Tyler does not have a signifacantly better career I will be dissapointed.

Considering their relative draft positions, I don't think anyone would disagree. I mean, man, we could have kept Vonteego Cummings...

However, I think it is no disrespect to Tyler to compare them in terms of intensity and work ethic, or to compare their dedication to doing what they have to do on the floor. The fact that Jeff's talent level is lower shouldn't make any difference when looking at those attributes.

Madsen's dancing skillz
04-18-2011, 04:00 PM
Here's the dirty little secret about Hansbrough: he's actually plenty athletic. Seriously. He has really good lateral quickness, and is quicker than most other Power Forwards in the league. And while he's not the explosive guy in the league, he can certainly get up there when required. (See posterization of Stoudemire, Amare)

His problem is and forever will be his height. I'm pretty sure Paul George is taller than him at this point. If he were two inches taller, we would be talking about a franchise player, an All-Star year after year. He got used to destroying players in college that were either about his height or players that were taller, but much less skilled comparatively. Now he has to play against players who are not only taller, but more skilled than him. The reason I believe he still might be the answer at PF is his competitiveness. He will find a way to score, whether it be at the post or in on the top of the key. It may not work every night, but i still believe he can put up impressive numbers.
I have high expectations for him next year. I expect him to work to get that jumper down pat. I'd like to see him take it to the hole faster against taller players, and work on finishing the contested layups he gets. (His really should have had that layup in the 4th qtr on Saturday) And that's just on the offensive end. Anyway if there is anyone who could make that jump, it's Hansbrough.

joeyd
04-18-2011, 04:38 PM
Considering their relative draft positions, I don't think anyone would disagree. I mean, man, we could have kept Vonteego Cummings...

However, I think it is no disrespect to Tyler to compare them in terms of intensity and work ethic, or to compare their dedication to doing what they have to do on the floor. The fact that Jeff's talent level is lower shouldn't make any difference when looking at those attributes.

Thanks BillS. That's what I meant. But come on Trader Joe! Really, no similarities? Something else that is not to be discounted is offensive rebounding prowess, which Tyler has and should only get better. I have seen games where Tyler has led the team in that category in games where he's logged limited minutes, similar to Jeff.

troyc11a
04-18-2011, 04:47 PM
Thanks BillS. That's what I meant. But come on Trader Joe! Really, no similarities? Something else that is not to be discounted is offensive rebounding prowess, which Tyler has and should only get better. I have seen games where Tyler has led the team in that category in games where he's logged limited minutes, similar to Jeff.

Bird even said after he drafted Tyler that he looked at him as a Jeff Foster with better offensive skills (or something like that).
So, to me what you said was not a disrespect at all. I love Jeff because of the way he plays. I love Tyler because of the way he plays AND his skill set!

JEM
04-18-2011, 04:52 PM
I will say one thing... I think Hansbrough might be the fastest 6'9 250 big man I have seen in a long time. Boozer had no shot at catching him after Tyler stole the ball.

Pacergeek
04-18-2011, 05:18 PM
Tyler is quickly making a name for himself. His intensity is intimidating to other, more laid back players. They don't know how to handle him. Tyler never stops. I thought his best play was the lose ball he chased down, and threw it off the Bulls player. Hansbrough wanted that ball more than anything. The debate has been settled. Tyler > Blair.

McKeyFan
04-18-2011, 06:24 PM
At 6:23 pm on Monday night, I am really glad to see no threads talking about Tyler sitting out tonight's game or being diagnosed with some kind of head problem.

McKeyFan
04-18-2011, 06:25 PM
Was I the only one hoping that the last couple of possessions would go through Tyler's hands?


Nope.

I'd like to see that change in tonight's game or future games.

If Hans can't make something happen at the end, give Danny another chance. But Danny blew it on Saturday.