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View Full Version : why they stop passing to tyler....trade granger pls nx yr....



spitfabulouz
04-16-2011, 03:44 PM
granger n collison played horrible last last quarter....

immortality
04-16-2011, 03:48 PM
or the defense just tightened up and they didn't have as many options to move around ?

Trader Joe
04-16-2011, 03:49 PM
Really?

Doddage
04-16-2011, 03:51 PM
In before the lock.

gummy
04-16-2011, 03:53 PM
:rolleyes:

Shabazz
04-16-2011, 03:54 PM
It seemed like the last 5 or 6 possessions were just Collison and Granger playing selfish basketball.

Where was the great passing and team basketball that we saw the entire rest of the game?

Tyler got no touches in the final couple minutes and it had nothing to do with defense. It had to do with Collison and Granger, who both played well today, choosing not to play team basketball down the stretch.

Unclebuck
04-16-2011, 03:55 PM
we don't need this thread

idioteque
04-16-2011, 03:56 PM
LOL, of course there had to be a thread like this

QuickRelease
04-16-2011, 03:57 PM
Man, this was fast. I wasn't anticipating this thread for another 5 minutes. Maybe we should give the Bulls credit for being good instead of dismantling the team.

Will Galen
04-16-2011, 03:59 PM
we don't need this thread

I agree! Instead of commending a great effort from a young team, posters want to point fingers and place blame. Shame on them!

QuickRelease
04-16-2011, 04:10 PM
posters want to point fingers and place blame AND TRADE THEMForgot to add the most important part.

immortality
04-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Troller is trolling.

PacerPenguins
04-16-2011, 04:18 PM
granger n collison played horrible last last quarter....

ok u were probably drooling all over DC and Dannys balls when they were hitting shots

pacer4ever
04-16-2011, 04:20 PM
ok u were probably drooling all over DC and Dannys balls when they were hitting shots

na he is a bulls fan

Infinite MAN_force
04-16-2011, 04:23 PM
Hard to fault Granger for being your leading scorer, shooting 50% from the field, 50% from three, scoring 18 in the second half, playing good defense... adding 3 assists and 6 rebounds.

You can't fault the guy for not being Reggie Miller. Thats an awfully unfair standard to hold him to.

BringJackBack
04-16-2011, 04:24 PM
I think there is a reason why Derrick Rose is going to win MVP this year, the Bulls are the best defensive team in the league, and they won 62 games.

Quit blaming our guys for the loss. I'm happy that we competed.

xIndyFan
04-16-2011, 04:26 PM
Hard to fault Granger for being your leading scorer, shooting 50% from the field, 50% from three, scoring 18 in the second half, playing good defense... adding 3 assists and 6 rebounds.

You can't fault the guy for not being Reggie Miller. Thats an awfully unfair standard to hold him to.

:iagree:

danny carried the pacers the 2nd half. hating on him now just means you're a hater without a cause. or not really paying attention to the game. :-o;):laugh:

Trophy
04-16-2011, 04:26 PM
This is going to get out of hand so...

:inbeforethelock:

eldubious
04-16-2011, 04:34 PM
I think that if a good deal comes around that Granger could be had. I don't see him making this team a championship contender. He's a complimentary player to a great one. Granger is an asset to making the Pacers a contender, he's not part of the puzzle.

AesopRockOn
04-16-2011, 05:21 PM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dQw4w9WgXcQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

IndyHoya
04-16-2011, 06:18 PM
Hard to fault Granger for being your leading scorer, shooting 50% from the field, 50% from three, scoring 18 in the second half, playing good defense... adding 3 assists and 6 rebounds.

You can't fault the guy for not being Reggie Miller. Thats an awfully unfair standard to hold him to.

And being doubled the ENTIRE game. There's a reason Psycho T was open for all those Js. I like our chances in Game 2. If the Bulls decide to defense Tyler, maybe Danny gets to drive and shoot some FTs like Mr. MVP.

Eleazar
04-16-2011, 07:09 PM
In my opinion Collison's biggest flaw is at the end of games he tries to do too much. He doesn't just let the offense flow, he tries to take it over and become a star. Although he is a good player, and is certainly capable of taking over it is going to backfire more times than not.

Granger can be the same way, although he will do it in the middle of a game.

They both need to just let the offense flow, and work.

brewpopps
04-16-2011, 07:25 PM
I noticed the play that turned into Noah's free throw on the breakaway...the ball was loose and Granger kind of reached out in a half hearted attempt when the Bulls picked it up. Then he committed the foul. Both were just bad plays and have become typical of Granger.
If he's gonna be the man suggesting to the press that the Bulls were a good draw for the Pacers, I fully expect him to leave it all on the floor, especially on defense. I don't see that from him...defense is not his nature. This Pacers team is gonna go places with their defense, which will create their offense. Guys who aren't defending need to go and as much as I think this thread is needless, I believe the Pacers would benefit from seeing what they can get for Granger.
His moods are not leading this team, never have.

KingGeorge
04-16-2011, 07:55 PM
Granger seems to be taking a lot of heat for someone who shot 50% and was the leading scorer for the team.

I know many people want Granger gone, and that is fine, but don't come to that conclusion from one game.

You can't blame one person for this loss. We went to Chicago and played as a team, and lost as a team.

This is a time we should be proud of our guys for playing hard and beating the expectations.

This isn't the time to start demanding trades after a tough loss.

Eleazar
04-16-2011, 07:55 PM
I noticed the play that turned into Noah's free throw on the breakaway...the ball was loose and Granger kind of reached out in a half hearted attempt when the Bulls picked it up. Then he committed the foul. Both were just bad plays and have become typical of Granger.
If he's gonna be the man suggesting to the press that the Bulls were a good draw for the Pacers, I fully expect him to leave it all on the floor, especially on defense. I don't see that from him...defense is not his nature. This Pacers team is gonna go places with their defense, which will create their offense. Guys who aren't defending need to go and as much as I think this thread is needless, I believe the Pacers would benefit from seeing what they can get for Granger.
His moods are not leading this team, never have.

I agree, I would like to see if they can get someone like Gordon and move George over to SF. Although I do not expect that to happen. I think Bird still believes in Granger, and unless this playoff series changes his mind I don't see the Pacers actively trading Granger.

BornReady
04-16-2011, 07:57 PM
OMG TRADE COLLISON HE GOT 17/6/9 AND TRADE GRANGER HE GOT 24/6/3 AGAINST THE TEAM WITH THE BEST RECORD IN THE NBA

BringJackBack
04-16-2011, 07:59 PM
BTW, I do love the thread title. It looks like lolcats. :laugh:

Anthem
04-16-2011, 08:08 PM
This thread is ridiculous.

croz24
04-16-2011, 08:54 PM
the pacers need a change in terms of their in-game leadership. because our management foolishly labeled granger our "go-to" guy and the guy to build around, it is going to make it very tough for one of these younger guys to take that spot away from him, or for a free agent to take over that role. granger is not our leader, nor should he have ever been called our leader. and for the pacers to reach championship level, we need better than granger. my blame has always been on an overeager management and fanbase to label someone our franchise player, or star before the man ever proved himself with consistent winning. same thing happened with jo imo which ultimately caused friction when artest challenged jo for that top spot on the team. all my opinion.

troyc11a
04-16-2011, 08:56 PM
Typical knee-jerk reaction. Why would anyone be surprised that the Pacers went away from what got them the lead in the first place? Was anyone really surprised that Danny and DC played like they did at the end? I wasnt because these guys dont know how to win yet. Give them time.
It is crazy to call them selfish. Anyone who ever played BB at a level above elementary school could see they were not being selfish - they choked. Period.
This is a very young team that has to learn how to win. I am not defending their terrible play but I at least understand it. A 2nd year point guard and a franchise player that at best is the 3rd option on a championship caliber team cannot be expected to make winning plays in the playoffs - not yet anyway!

Eleazar
04-16-2011, 09:00 PM
the pacers need a change in terms of their in-game leadership. because our management foolishly labeled granger our "go-to" guy and the guy to build around, it is going to make it very tough for one of these younger guys to take that spot away from him, or for a free agent to take over that role. granger is not our leader, nor should he have ever been called our leader. and for the pacers to reach championship level, we need better than granger. my blame has always been on an overeager management and fanbase to label someone our franchise player, or star before the man ever proved himself with consistent winning. same thing happened with jo imo which ultimately caused friction when artest challenged jo for that top spot on the team. all my opinion.

That is my opinion too. It has nothing to do with this game, in fact I am hoping Granger changes my mind in this series.

troyc11a
04-16-2011, 09:00 PM
Granger seems to be taking a lot of heat for someone who shot 50% and was the leading scorer for the team.

I know many people want Granger gone, and that is fine, but don't come to that conclusion from one game.

You can't blame one person for this loss. We went to Chicago and played as a team, and lost as a team.

This is a time we should be proud of our guys for playing hard and beating the expectations.

This isn't the time to start demanding trades after a tough loss.

People are putting unfair expectations on Granger. He is not a player who can lead a franchise. He is a good complimentary player. He is not good enough to take over down the stretch of a playoff game against superior talent. Reggie could stink for 46 minutes and then hit 3 dagger three's at the end to steal the victory. There is a major difference between playoff BB and regular season. Dont expect DG or DC to be the guys in the postseason when they have never done squat i nthem so far. It takes time! I believe they will both be better later on because of their failure to seal the deal today!

KingGeorge
04-16-2011, 09:05 PM
I am not defending their terrible play but I at least understand it. \

Terrible play? Really?

This was honestly one of the best games we have played this season.

We were beating the #1 seed in the East for 47 minutes.

Like I have been saying, no one was even giving this team a chance and was expecting to get blown out the first game.

We are a young team and they have the MVP.

I was upset about the loss as well, but we all have to realize how far we have come in 4 months.

BringJackBack
04-16-2011, 09:05 PM
If Granger isn't a good number one option on a good team, which he isn't, why in the **** does that make certain people resent him? Why do you want to trade him just because he is best suited as a 2nd option?

If anything, he's proved to me today that I need to appreciate what he does more. He single handedly carried us in the second half.

Anthem
04-16-2011, 09:13 PM
If Granger isn't a good number one option on a good team, which he isn't, why in the **** does that make certain people resent him? Why do you want to trade him just because he is best suited as a 2nd option?

If anything, he's proved to me today that I need to appreciate what he does more. He single handedly carried us in the second half.
Exactly.

The goal shouldn't be to get rid of Granger. It should be to get another player at least as good as him.

vapacersfan
04-16-2011, 09:17 PM
I am shocked at all the heat Granger is taking.

The Pacers did not lose as much as the bulls won today.

The Pacers are a young team, and as painful as this is to watch, at least we get a chance to watch our team play in the second season

vnzla81
04-16-2011, 09:19 PM
Exactly.

The goal shouldn't be to get rid of Granger. It should be to get another player at least as good as him.

http://pardonmybias.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/monta_ellis-e1295977821472.jpg


:signit:

pacer4ever
04-16-2011, 09:20 PM
http://pardonmybias.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/monta_ellis-e1295977821472.jpg


:sign:

we would have to play with 2 balls with Danny and Monta on the same team.

vnzla81
04-16-2011, 09:21 PM
we would have to play with 2 balls with Danny and Monta on the same team.

Not really, Danny is a good player off the ball.

Eleazar
04-16-2011, 09:23 PM
If Granger isn't a good number one option on a good team, which he isn't, why in the **** does that make certain people resent him? Why do you want to trade him just because he is best suited as a 2nd option?

If anything, he's proved to me today that I need to appreciate what he does more. He single handedly carried us in the second half.

There are two reasons I want to trade him. The first being to get the players I want it is going to take Granger to make it happen. Secondly and most importantly it is blatantly obvious that Granger does not give 100% effort all of the time. If he did he would be considered a much better defender and player than people give him credit for.

pacer4ever
04-16-2011, 09:26 PM
Not really, Danny is a good player off the ball.

He might be good off the ball but he perfers the ball in his hands. I could see thoes two clashing.

Anthem
04-16-2011, 09:29 PM
The first being to get the players I want it is going to take Granger to make it happen. Secondly and most importantly it is blatantly obvious that Granger does not give 100% effort all of the time.
You've decided ahead of time that Granger must go, before even knowing who you'd be pursuing. I'd be open to seeing Granger go if it brought back a better player, but it's entirely to soon to say what that cost would be. Generally, if a team trades a star, it's for salary relief, draft picks, and young prospects.

Regarding his effort, unless you're getting back Kobe you're not getting someone who goes 100% all the time on both sides of the ball.

Anthem
04-16-2011, 09:31 PM
He might be good off the ball but he perfers the ball in his hands. I could see thoes two clashing.
I can't see Monta as a smashmouth player.

Regardless, Danny's about as ego-free as any first option in the NBA. I think he'd do great with another player at his level.

McKeyFan
04-16-2011, 09:33 PM
we would have to play with 2 balls with Danny and Monta on the same team.

The second half of that post will likely not happen. But I'm afraid the first half is pretty much available to each of us.

vapacersfan
04-16-2011, 09:34 PM
You've decided ahead of time that Granger must go, before even knowing who you'd be pursuing. I'd be open to seeing Granger go if it brought back a better player, but it's entirely to soon to say what that cost would be. Generally, if a team trades a star, it's for salary relief, draft picks, and young prospects.

Regarding his effort, unless you're getting back Kobe you're not getting someone who goes 100% all the time on both sides of the ball.

Agreed.

I must admit I have not watched a lot of NBA, but I would think of guys like Ron Artest and Tim Duncan (and even a guy like D. Wade) who go balls to the wall on both sides all game, but in all honestly I think it is hard to fault Granger right now. He is not a perfect player, but I think he will be a great Robin to another Superman (and I have no clue who that player is, but I think that he does exist)

All that said, like you I am ok with trading him. Just make sure we are not making a change for the pure sake of change

QuickRelease
04-16-2011, 09:36 PM
The second half of that post will likely not happen. Thankfully, the first half is always available to each of us.
:eek::laugh:....but more :laugh: than :eek:!

troyc11a
04-16-2011, 09:36 PM
Terrible play? Really?

This was honestly one of the best games we have played this season.

We were beating the #1 seed in the East for 47 minutes.

Like I have been saying, no one was even giving this team a chance and was expecting to get blown out the first game.

We are a young team and they have the MVP.

I was upset about the loss as well, but we all have to realize how far we have come in 4 months.

I was referring to the bad play at the end. Not the whole game = learning curve here!

troyc11a
04-16-2011, 09:39 PM
Not really, Danny is a good player off the ball.

The other 14 players better be good off the ball with Ellis in the line-up. Complete gunner! No thanks.

vnzla81
04-16-2011, 09:40 PM
I can't see Monta as a smashmouth player.
Regardless, Danny's about as ego-free as any first option in the NBA. I think he'd do great with another player at his level.

Monta is actually one of the toughest players in the NBA, he gets fouled hard almost every game and doesn't stop attacking the rim.

Eleazar
04-16-2011, 10:05 PM
You've decided ahead of time that Granger must go, before even knowing who you'd be pursuing. I'd be open to seeing Granger go if it brought back a better player, but it's entirely to soon to say what that cost would be. Generally, if a team trades a star, it's for salary relief, draft picks, and young prospects.

Regarding his effort, unless you're getting back Kobe you're not getting someone who goes 100% all the time on both sides of the ball.

Actually no I know exactly who I want to trade him for, and I never said anything about trading him just to trade him. I wouldn't want to trade him for equal I want to trade him for something better otherwise there is absolutely no reason to trade him.

Anthem
04-16-2011, 11:26 PM
Actually no I know exactly who I want to trade him for, and I never said anything about trading him just to trade him. I wouldn't want to trade him for equal I want to trade him for something better otherwise there is absolutely no reason to trade him.
And who do you have in mind?

And why would the other team want to acquire a player that's not as good as what they have?

Anthem
04-16-2011, 11:28 PM
Monta is actually one of the toughest players in the NBA, he gets fouled hard almost every game and doesn't stop attacking the rim.
No doubt, Monta can score the rock.

But do you really see a team threatening to win it all with him as the best player? Cause I don't. And if you don't either, then why is it a step forward?

I can see Danny doing well as a second option. Monta seems like a guy that needs to be a first option.

vnzla81
04-16-2011, 11:43 PM
No doubt, Monta can score the rock.

But do you really see a team threatening to win it all with him as the best player? Cause I don't. And if you don't either, then why is it a step forward?

I can see Danny doing well as a second option. Monta seems like a guy that needs to be a first option.

My point is to someway somehow we try to get Monta to play with Danny, a line up of DC,Monta,Danny,Hans,Roy could be nice.

ilive4sports
04-16-2011, 11:55 PM
My point is to someway somehow we try to get Monta to play with Danny, a line up of DC,Monta,Danny,Hans,Roy could be nice.

I'd prefer to let Paul George mature.

vnzla81
04-17-2011, 12:01 AM
I'd prefer to let Paul George mature.

I like PG but if you have a chance to get a guy that scores close to 25ppg you do it, Monta and Rose are similar players and I don't know about you but I would trade anybody for Rose, if we are able to keep Danny,DC,Roy and Tyler you make that deal happen.

Sookie
04-17-2011, 12:45 AM
I wouldn't trade PG for Monta. PG will end up better, and much more of a team player.

ilive4sports
04-17-2011, 12:52 AM
I like PG but if you have a chance to get a guy that scores close to 25ppg you do it, Monta and Rose are similar players and I don't know about you but I would trade anybody for Rose, if we are able to keep Danny,DC,Roy and Tyler you make that deal happen.


Wait are we talking about Rose or Monta here? Rose, I would trade anyone on our roster for. Monta, not so much

judicata
04-17-2011, 01:57 AM
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/e4e/942/976/resized/y-u-no-meme-generator-granger-and-collison-y-u-no-feed-syko-tee-363ad4.jpg?1303019358

righteouscool
04-17-2011, 05:26 AM
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/e4e/942/976/resized/y-u-no-meme-generator-granger-and-collison-y-u-no-feed-syko-tee-363ad4.jpg?1303019358

Because the best defensive team in the league eventually adjusts. . .

I don't know why people can't see this. The fact is they DId try to go to Tyler.

yoadknux
04-17-2011, 05:39 AM
Monta can score the ball but I think he's kinda overshooting, and is undersized. If we have a DC/Monta/Granger/Tyler/Hibbert lineup we will not be that good. Firstly you'll have 4 players who are a lot more offensive minded than defensive minded (DC/Monta/Granger/Tyler - Granger is the best defender among these, and we all know Granger's defense comes and goes).
The thing about Monta is that he's sort of "fearless" and can close out games, which is something we lack, but if we're gonna pick a shooting guard, I'd say we need an all around guy - someone who can help run our offense, support the scoring, and support the defense. Like Iggy.
I'm OK with Granger taking clutch shots really, the problem is that he's the only consistent threat, which makes him easier to defend. I hope Tyler can keep playing like this and we'll have 2 real options on offense.

beast23
04-17-2011, 11:32 AM
we don't need this threadI agree at least not at this time.

But I did cull something positive from this thread. It helped me to make my final decision.... two more posters on IGNORE.

vnzla81
04-17-2011, 11:37 AM
Wait are we talking about Rose or Monta here? Rose, I would trade anyone on our roster for. Monta, not so much

I was trying to compare them because to a lot of people here Monta is a shocker and Rose is a beast when in reality both players are pretty similar, just look at their numbers:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ellismo01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rosede01.html


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01.html


I added, Russell Westbrook's numbers also, because I think that those three guys are similar with Rose been the top dog, Russell the second best and Monta 3rd.

Lou Bega
04-17-2011, 02:20 PM
we don't need this thread

Let a new poster post a thread without criticism.

The Pacers just choked down the stretch. Derrick Rose is a superstar who leads his team to big victories. Danny Granger was doing a great job taking the ball to the basket. He looked good both o ends early. Collison was on fire early as well. He sat and got cold. I don't know if was a lack of cardio or the rotation. This team is very young, inexperienced, and hopefully will learn how to close out games.

Very difficult loss, but if you keep trading and trading you never have a core group of players that have experience playing together with defined roles. I think that is what wins in the playoffs. Collison is still on a rookie contract and Danny Granger probably will be traded but be careful what you wish for. What do you think we should trade DG33 for.

ilive4sports
04-17-2011, 03:29 PM
I was trying to compare them because to a lot of people here Monta is a shocker and Rose is a beast when in reality both players are pretty similar, just look at their numbers:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ellismo01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rosede01.html


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01.html


I added, Russell Westbrook's numbers also, because I think that those three guys are similar with Rose been the top dog, Russell the second best and Monta 3rd.

Sure they are similar, but Rose is doing it on maybe the best team in the league while Ellis is doing it on a non playoff team. That certainly factors in there.

Dr. Hibbert
04-17-2011, 06:40 PM
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/e4e/942/976/resized/y-u-no-meme-generator-granger-and-collison-y-u-no-feed-syko-tee-363ad4.jpg?1303019358

I'm only thanking you on the condition you didn't learn ragecomics from Digg. You better be a Redditor.

Rogco
04-18-2011, 08:19 AM
I agree! Instead of commending a great effort from a young team, posters want to point fingers and place blame. Shame on them!

I agree and disagree. If it had been close I would have agreed, but I also had to watch a pathetic last 4 minutes by Granger as we choked away a ten point lead. He got burnt by Deng and couldn't hit a shot. Shame, he played fantastic basketball in the second and third quarters (though his shot selection all game was crap, he was hitting them) but his bad decisions caught up to him in the end, and he chucked up bad shots, fouled Noah for no reason, and got burnt by Deng. All in all and absolute stinking 4 minutes by our "closer." After the season he has had the only thing he could do to redeem himself was show up in the playoffs and be a "playoff" guy. So far he's been a choker and fans are sick of it.

beast23
04-18-2011, 09:52 AM
I agree and disagree. If it had been close I would have agreed, but I also had to watch a pathetic last 4 minutes by Granger as we choked away a ten point lead. He got burnt by Deng and couldn't hit a shot. Shame, he played fantastic basketball in the second and third quarters (though his shot selection all game was crap, he was hitting them) but his bad decisions caught up to him in the end, and he chucked up bad shots, fouled Noah for no reason, and got burnt by Deng. All in all and absolute stinking 4 minutes by our "closer." After the season he has had the only thing he could do to redeem himself was show up in the playoffs and be a "playoff" guy. So far he's been a choker and fans are sick of it.
Jeesh, everybody needs to get a grip.

Try doing an honest evaluation/analysis of each of our players. We DO NOT have a single "killer" on the entire team. Not one "closer" and not a single real "leader".

So, don't hang Granger out to dry with a term that you are attempting to force onto him.

Granger is a nice player, just like a few others on the roster, that can provide scoring and decent defense when he is so inclined. It is unfortunate that he is the best we have and that we do attempt to go to him more than other players as games close out. Instead, we are one of a few teams in the league that should probably just continue playing the way we have the entire game, rather than begin going to our best player, as end game situations arrive.

But instead of taking exception with Granger for not being what he is not, accept what he is and realize that this summer we absolutely must go out and find a player that does have "killer" abilities. That does not mean that Granger should be traded to acquire such a player. It probably does mean that it would be great to have such a player play next to Granger in the starting lineup.