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View Full Version : Kobe Fined 100k for Gay Slur



Cactus Jax
04-13-2011, 06:40 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6344596

Man these stories can catch fire really quickly, if this were caught more often on camera like it was last night there would be a lot of broke players.

Sookie
04-13-2011, 06:46 PM
Jeez.

Good though, maybe he..and other guys..will think twice about saying it.

Jared Sullinger
04-13-2011, 07:20 PM
Excessive to an absurd degree.

Mr_Smith
04-13-2011, 07:25 PM
According to TMZ he said "f**king f*ggots"... sorry no link

Kstat
04-13-2011, 07:28 PM
No issue at all with the NBA making a point here.

This is like racial slurs back in the 60's. They'll eventually get weeded out of everyday language over time, but it was nice to see the NBA take a pro-active approach, even if it was a little excessive.

PacersHomer
04-13-2011, 07:41 PM
To quote one of my favorite tweeters...

PaulyPeligroso

So a homophobe, a rapist, and a black guy walk into a bar, and everyone's like "Can I have your autograph, Kobe?"
about 2 hours ago via web

DocHolliday
04-13-2011, 07:43 PM
This story is gay.

Kstat
04-13-2011, 07:45 PM
If it were a player dropping N-bombs on a referee, people would say 100K is not nearly enough. The point needs to be made.

xIndyFan
04-13-2011, 07:46 PM
According to TMZ he said "f**king f*ggots"... sorry no link

i was watching the game and that is what he said.

no, actually it was singular, no s at the end.

PacersHomer
04-13-2011, 07:49 PM
Kobe is a complete tool and this further proves that. He has the maturity of a 12 year old since most people stop saying "***got" after they reach puberty.

presto123
04-13-2011, 07:58 PM
I used to think Kobe was a sensible, grounded, role model type of player. Boy was I wrong. Shame on you Kobe.

Basketball Fan
04-13-2011, 08:03 PM
He used a poor choice of words but I'm also not going to applaud the NBA for this either when they've been rather hypocritical about this sort of thing. This happens all the time in the NBA and nothing is ever done about it from KG dropping F-Bombs, AI calling a Pacers fan a "***got" a few years back when a fan called him the N-word. List goes on. And there's K-Mart referring to Mark Cuban as a "***got"

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9jgxlPfSr-0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


It just screams PR move here after all if Kobe says it people will take notice nobody cares if its just some scrub yet they're both equally bad or at least should be.

Jared Sullinger
04-13-2011, 08:32 PM
No issue at all with the NBA making a point here.

This is like racial slurs back in the 60's. They'll eventually get weeded out of everyday language over time, but it was nice to see the NBA take a pro-active approach, even if it was a little excessive.

The dreaded "N" word has been weeded out of everyday language? That's news to me.


It should be noted that the non-four-letter-"F"-word long ago evolved beyond being a term referring exclusively to homosexual males and is now used in the same sense that the phrases a**hole, douche bag, etc. are used. In fact, I'm willing to bet that's now the primary usage of the term, including how Kobe meant it.

Basketball Fan
04-13-2011, 08:43 PM
The dreaded "N" word has been weeded out of everyday language? That's news to me.


It should be noted that the non-four-letter-"F"-word long ago evolved beyond being a term referring exclusively to homosexual males and is now used in the same sense that the phrases a**hole, douche bag, etc. are used. In fact, I'm willing to bet that's now the primary usage of the term, including how Kobe meant it.

Or "Soft" "Punk" etc I mean Kobe has told a ref to **** himself:laugh: sounds about right that's what he meant.

That being said he shouldn't have said it and probably will just say ******* next time and call it a day. Even "**********" wouldn't have got him fined.

King Tuts Tomb
04-13-2011, 08:50 PM
The dreaded "N" word has been weeded out of everyday language? That's news to me.


It should be noted that the non-four-letter-"F"-word long ago evolved beyond being a term referring exclusively to homosexual males and is now used in the same sense that the phrases a**hole, douche bag, etc. are used. In fact, I'm willing to bet that's now the primary usage of the term, including how Kobe meant it.

Long ago? That's news to me.

Shade
04-13-2011, 08:53 PM
Why would Kobe make a slur about Rudy Gay?

Major Cold
04-13-2011, 08:59 PM
While I hate the hate. Consistency is needed if they really want to take exception. They only fine if it is recorded and reported.

And please lets stop comparing the homosexual movement with the Civil Rights Movement. They are separate altogether, and deserve their own stage.

King Tuts Tomb
04-13-2011, 09:08 PM
And please lets stop comparing the homosexual movement with the Civil Rights Movement. They are separate altogether, and deserve their own stage.

Tell that to Bayard Rustin.

Kuq_e_Zi91
04-13-2011, 09:27 PM
This is a touchy subject, and one I understand isn't meant for this board, but I just felt the need to say that comparing the non four letter F word and the N word is absolutely ridiculous. It is not the same. Period.

90'sNBARocked
04-13-2011, 09:29 PM
I dont know why he got fined, he was simply talking about loud foul mouthed harley davidson motorcycle riders

:)

Kaufman
04-13-2011, 09:30 PM
Kstat, do you feel as strongly about a black person using the N word in a derogatory sort of way towards another black person?

Cactus Jax
04-13-2011, 09:33 PM
Kstat, do you feel as strongly about a black person using the N word in a derogatory sort of way towards another black person?

Not to derail this thread but I don't think black people should be using the N word period, if they want to seriously weed out the word.

Gay terms are in the infancy stages of being brought public and used in a "joking not actually meaning gay kind of way', and people feel being gay is more of a choice than something given at birth.

MarvelousMarvin
04-13-2011, 09:38 PM
Ridiculous fine and 90'snbarocked that was a great episode.

Jared Sullinger
04-13-2011, 09:52 PM
Long ago? That's news to me.

That's how the word's been used as far back as I can remember, which is 10-20 years. That qualifies as "long ago" to me.

I would think words developing new meanings over time would be understood by the homosexual community considering the history of the word gay. Maybe it is. Hmm...

BlueNGold
04-13-2011, 09:53 PM
While I'm no Kobe fan and I don't like either the N or F word...I think anyone complaining about this needs to look in the mirror at themselves.

I don't know the law (i.e. CBA) surrounding this but it seems wrong that anyone could contract away a fundamental right (Freedom of speech). Nobody is perfect and 100K fine for a word that he is legally allowed to utter is wrong in my book.

BlueNGold
04-13-2011, 09:55 PM
Long ago? That's news to me.

When you are 10 years old, 4 months ago was long ago. Long ago to me is 35 years ago...;)

King Tuts Tomb
04-13-2011, 10:17 PM
While I'm no Kobe fan and I don't like either the N or F word...I think anyone complaining about this needs to look in the mirror at themselves.

I don't know the law (i.e. CBA) surrounding this but it seems wrong that anyone could contract away a fundamental right (Freedom of speech). Nobody is perfect and 100K fine for a word that he is legally allowed to utter is wrong in my book.

I don't think anyone is saying he should go to jail or that what he did is in any way illegal. But, he was at work. Try going to your job and calling one of your coworkers a "fu***ing fa**ot." I'd say most of us would get off lucky with a fine.

Sookie
04-13-2011, 10:21 PM
While I'm no Kobe fan and I don't like either the N or F word...I think anyone complaining about this needs to look in the mirror at themselves.

I don't know the law (i.e. CBA) surrounding this but it seems wrong that anyone could contract away a fundamental right (Freedom of speech). Nobody is perfect and 100K fine for a word that he is legally allowed to utter is wrong in my book.

Freedom of speech only covers your right to not go to jail. Employers can punish if they so like.
I like Kobe, but I"m glad the NBA made a statement.

and No, I don't use that word.

ColeTheMole
04-13-2011, 10:27 PM
I agree with the NBA fining him. However, I think the whole world needs to grow up at some point. Words are just words.

Kaufman
04-13-2011, 10:33 PM
this may not be a chic thing to say, but has anyone ever considered that using the N word or the F word maybe not sooo bad in the sense that by avoiding these terms we give them more importance than what they are worth?

my thinking may be a bit over rational, but just wondering. i've seen these thoughts suggested, they may or may not reflect my own, but i was just wondering for a point of discussion.

BlueNGold
04-13-2011, 10:57 PM
I don't think anyone is saying he should go to jail or that what he did is in any way illegal. But, he was at work. Try going to your job and calling one of your coworkers a "fu***ing fa**ot." I'd say most of us would get off lucky with a fine.

No, that's not where I was going. My issue is that Stern is acting like a dictator setting whatever number he wants to extract. It's really a control issue IMO. The NBA is not a normal employer and Kobe and other athletes are basically gagged. Unlike most private people Kobe cannot go elsewhere to get a similar job, particularly due to the CBA. That's the difference. Stern is a control freak and he's sending a message to the rest of the league. That's all this is.

As for some kind of punishment, I agree with that. But a 100K fine is extreme and smacks of arrogance. Why not 100 million? What is the arbitrary limit? What if a rookie backup said the same thing? Is Stern going to treat them equally and take the guy's retirement?

Again, I'm not defending anything Kobe said...

PaceBalls
04-13-2011, 11:18 PM
All I kept thinking while reading this thread was:

http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/weenie.htm

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="941"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td>
</td> <td colspan="4" valign="top"> Weenie is a very sensitive guy, and it angers and saddens him that everyone isn't just as sensitive as he. An admitted male feminist, Weenie is ever vigilant against anti-progressive attitudes. Though he seldom comes into personal contact with the working classes, he keenly feels the pain of their oppression nonetheless . Weenie's chief antagonists are Troglodyte (http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/troglodyte.htm), Evil Clown (http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm), Capitalista (http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/capitalista.htm) and sometimes Ideologue (http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/ideologue.htm). Because of his natural petulance Weenie can easily be goaded into battle, but he is encumbered by a tendency to throw temper tantrums when severely pressed. </td></tr></tbody></table>

IUfan4life
04-13-2011, 11:27 PM
Glad to see Indiana is still Indiana

King Tuts Tomb
04-13-2011, 11:28 PM
As for some kind of punishment, I agree with that. But a 100K fine is extreme and smacks of arrogance. Why not 100 million? What is the arbitrary limit? What if a rookie backup said the same thing? Is Stern going to treat them equally and take the guy's retirement?


Agreed. I've never liked how arbitrary some of Stern's fines and suspensions are.

Jared Sullinger
04-14-2011, 12:27 AM
this may not be a chic thing to say, but has anyone ever considered that using the N word or the F word maybe not sooo bad in the sense that by avoiding these terms we give them more importance than what they are worth?

my thinking may be a bit over rational, but just wondering. i've seen these thoughts suggested, they may or may not reflect my own, but i was just wondering for a point of discussion.

It sounds good in theory, but I'm not sure there aren't people who want to be offended and "victimized" as often as possible.

Jared Sullinger
04-14-2011, 12:53 AM
Agreed. I've never liked how arbitrary some of Stern's fines and suspensions are.

From 2001...

In A War Of Words, Two That Wound Allen Iverson Traded Slurs With A Fan. Both Struck Incredibly Sensitive Nerves. - Philly.com (http://articles.philly.com/2001-02-08/living/25319487_1_n-word-usage-linguists)

According to Sixers guard Allen Iverson, a spectator in Indianapolis called him a ["N" word] during a game on Jan. 28. He responded by calling the man a ["F" word]. Iverson was fined $5,000 by the National Basketball Association after NBC cameras caught him saying the word.

That's quite an increase.

IUfan4life
04-14-2011, 01:32 AM
From 2001...

In A War Of Words, Two That Wound Allen Iverson Traded Slurs With A Fan. Both Struck Incredibly Sensitive Nerves. - Philly.com (http://articles.philly.com/2001-02-08/living/25319487_1_n-word-usage-linguists)


That's quite an increase.

That was also 10 years ago

Jared Sullinger
04-14-2011, 01:55 AM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="853" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9jgxlPfSr-0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

gummy
04-14-2011, 02:15 AM
This is a touchy subject, and one I understand isn't meant for this board, but I just felt the need to say that comparing the non four letter F word and the N word is absolutely ridiculous. It is not the same. Period.

I feel that I may regret commenting in this thread for a number reasons, one of which is that it is dancing on the "thread locked" line already, but...

That's your opinion, not a statement of absolute truth that can or should define these issues, as your "period" ending suggests. Having had both words thrown at me on multiple occasions, I can tell you my opinion based on personal experience. I do not think the comparison is even remotely ridiculous and the emotional impact of these situations and my reaction to them were substantially the same.

Back to basketball-ish: I am often bewildered by the arbitrariness of NBA fines and I hope for consistent enforcement of these things too. However, freedom of speech is about being free of government interference in what one can say, it does not protect you from whatever legally allowed consequences may result from what you say. That includes your employer deciding that what you have said reflects badly on the company and punishing you accordingly - especially when you've agreed to it beforehand in the form collective bargaining agreements and contracts.

I think the Iverson situation was a little different in that it was a mutual exchange of insults initiated by the fan (though I do think his fine should have been higher and I bet it would be today in the post-brawl NBA), whereas Kobe directed his ire toward someone who is essentially a co-worker/superior.

AesopRockOn
04-14-2011, 03:08 AM
TIL Pacers Digest doesn't censor out **********. George Carlin is like, 'what?'

It seems like Kobe, and KMart before him, used the term as an emasculating, diminutive insult rather than a reference to lifestyle or genetic predisposition. Obviously the term has its roots in ignorant hatred (and bundles of sticks). You'd think Kobe would know better since he's Tiger 2.0 before Tiger figures it out. The fine will probably be appealed and lowered. It's a lose-lose either way.

DocHolliday
04-14-2011, 07:53 AM
Agreed. I've never liked how arbitrary some of Stern's fines and suspensions are.

What are you talking about? As always, it was a 1-0 vote and the fine levied was agreed upon by all voters. Totally fair.

Mackey_Rose
04-14-2011, 08:30 AM
I don't think he should have been penalized at all, but just for perspective sake for those saying it's excessive, fining Kobe $100 grand, is like someone making $50,000 a year getting fined $185.

RWB
04-14-2011, 08:34 AM
Glad to see Indiana is still Indiana

Huh, I guess the comments from posters in Washington DC, Arizona, Rhode Island, and Chicago Illinois must be my imagination.

Jared Sullinger
04-14-2011, 01:29 PM
Huh, I guess the comments from posters in Washington DC, Arizona, Rhode Island, and Chicago Illinois must be my imagination.

Rationality, logic and facts have no business in a witch hunt. Now get back to tendin' the farm, you backwards hayseed!

graphic-er
04-14-2011, 01:46 PM
The term ***got is not an exclusive insult to gay men. I wish this country was smarter.

Kstat
04-14-2011, 01:52 PM
The term n***er is not an exclusive insult to black people. Feel free to explain that to everyone you use that word against.

FlavaDave
04-14-2011, 02:00 PM
Take 7 mins of your life and watch this (NSFW):

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/a8ac764340/louie-s-poker-scene

It's from Louie C.K.'s show Louie. It seems crude at first, but I promise that if you stick with it, it will hit you like a brick.

Bball
04-14-2011, 02:28 PM
Personally, I think the fine should be for disrepecting the ref or the game... and should be consistent with other fines levied for that offense with any other player. What word he chose to do it is for his own personal PR hit.

graphic-er
04-14-2011, 02:41 PM
The term n***er is not an exclusive insult to black people. Feel free to explain that to everyone you use that word against.

Actually it is, i know technically the word just means one who is ignorant, but it is exclusively meant in reference to blacks. Nobody in that era was going around calling Indians or Chinese people ******.

You can't say the same about the word ***got. Its totally different. The world describes an emasculation of the male persona. A sissy if you will. Its like when you are a kid and you and your friends are crossing a busy street and one kid is scared to go. You would all chide him and call him a ***got. That does not mean you are calling him a gay. Its just that stereotypically gays exhibited behaviors that are considered emasculate.

So one word was used to define a race for just being, the other was used to define behavioral patterns.

Kstat
04-14-2011, 02:45 PM
...and you admit that while technically a non-exclusive term, it's still exclusive to one race, while the other word, while also technically a non-exclusive term, isn't. The difference being...what?

I generally never called my friends fa**ots when I was little. Didn't really hear it from them, either. Of course, that's just me.

graphic-er
04-14-2011, 02:46 PM
...and you admit that while technically a non-exclusive term, it's still exclusive to one race, while the other word, while also technically a non-exclusive term, isn't. The difference being...what?

So one word was used to define a race for just being, the other was used to define behavioral patterns.

That is a huge difference.

Kstat
04-14-2011, 02:47 PM
both words have been used under the guise of describing behavioral patterns. Let's not be obtuse.

90'sNBARocked
04-14-2011, 02:50 PM
The funny thing is growing up I was called the "N word" by my friends who called each other , and me the N word.

I would never say that to someone I dont know but the dudes who called me one , I would use the word back in the same context they used it

The word ***got though to me is universal. I dont even think , at least to me, it means gay

nowadays to me, ***got means, a soft guy, or just a plain dikhead

Kstat
04-14-2011, 02:51 PM
I can think of many more occasions where I've heard white guys call other white guys n***er than f***ot.

graphic-er
04-14-2011, 02:56 PM
both words have been used under the guise of describing behavioral patterns. Let's not be obtuse.

Have both been used to describe behavioral patterns across all races and or ethnic groups? i don't think that applies to the word N***er. I'm just saying men were being called ***gots for being sissy's way before gays were being called ***gots for exhibiting sissy like behavior. (note, i don't have anything against gays)

Mackey_Rose
04-14-2011, 03:20 PM
Shocking that this thread has not been locked.

Not that I mind, it is just getting good.

BillS
04-14-2011, 03:21 PM
I'm just saying men were being called ***gots for being sissy's way before gays were being called ***gots for exhibiting sissy like behavior. (note, i don't have anything against gays)

I think you'd better be prepared to do some research (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=***got&searchmode=none) before making statements like this.

Jared Sullinger
04-14-2011, 03:27 PM
The funny thing is growing up I was called the "N word" by my friends who called each other , and me the N word.

I would never say that to someone I dont know but the dudes who called me one , I would use the word back in the same context they used it

The word ***got though to me is universal. I dont even think , at least to me, it means gay

nowadays to me, ***got means, a soft guy, or just a plain dikhead

Context is key. When words have multiple meanings, we must look at the context in order to determine the specific usage.

Knowing that the word f***** is used both as a slur for homosexual males and as a term roughly synonymous with "idiot," when looking at the context in which Kobe used it (a referee he believed made a bad call), it seems obvious to me that it was the latter. He could've been more tactful in his choice of word as to not offend the willfully offended, yes, but like he said, it was in the heat of the moment. People usually don't take the time to choose their words wisely in such emotional situations.

Perhaps those smearing Mamba with the label of "homophobe" (a term that I'd argue, itself, has become a slur) should be the ones issuing the apologies?

Unclebuck
04-14-2011, 03:27 PM
Can I say this here - it has little to do with this topic. My brother and I roomed together for 3 years, It was when I was in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade. he was 3 years older than me .

One night I guess I was goofing around and being a pain (maybe I was up listening to a Pacers game) but he wanted to go to sleep, so he said "take off your clothes and get in bed you f** without the ot. of course at the time I had no idea nor did he that what he said had any meaning besides - be quiet and go to sleep.

Since86
04-14-2011, 03:34 PM
What I wonder is if players get fined for calling white players "crackers" or does the league just not care about racial slurs directed at white people?

We as a society tear apart anyone who uses a slur towards a minority group, but Eddie Griffin makes a living off racial slurs towards us "whities."

For the record, I really don't care. I don't get offended easily, which is why I make black jokes to my black friends and why I make gay jokes to my gay friends. Regardless if I call them a "***" or "gay" or "homosexual" it all means the samething IMHO. If you want it to be derogatory, you can. Or you can just accept the fact that some people are reta.... I mean dumb, and they will try and hurt you in whatever way they can.

So if you let the term "***" be hurtful they will use it. If you let the term "******" hurt you, then they will use that too. If you let the term "cracker" hurt you, they will use it. If you let the term "hibhob" hurt you, someone will start using that.

You can't change other people. But you can change how you react to the situation.

Which is why I find Daniel Tosh, and like comedians, so damn funny.

Kstat
04-14-2011, 03:36 PM
...and yet Tosh still doesn't use those words.

Since86
04-14-2011, 03:40 PM
Missed. The. Point.

How shocking you would.

EDIT: Is it any less offensive if I just change out the slur for a more direct name?

I guess Tosh's joke about his idea that the NCAA should give one more point to white players who score a basket isn't racist, because he didn't use the the N-word in it.....

I mean, his reasoning behind the idea is to let the other black players know that the white man will still be worth more and to let the white players know that they still have value in athletics.

But NOOOO, that's not racist at all. There's no slur in the joke!!!!!

billbradley
04-14-2011, 03:41 PM
i said ***got when i was in high school. it's offensive so i stopped. whats difficult about that?

BRushWithDeath
04-14-2011, 03:42 PM
Can I say this here - it has little to do with this topic. My brother and I roomed together for 3 years, It was when I was in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade. he was 3 years older than me .

One night I guess I was goofing around and being a pain (maybe I was up listening to a Pacers game) but he wanted to go to sleep, so he said "take off your clothes and get in bed you f** without the ot. of course at the time I had no idea nor did he that what he said had any meaning besides - be quiet and go to sleep.


Oh the irony.

Trader Joe
04-14-2011, 03:48 PM
I'm a little surprised that *** is censored on here but ****** isn't.

SMosley21
04-14-2011, 03:48 PM
...and yet Tosh still doesn't use those words.

:hmm:

Tosh doesn't use what words? He routinely uses multiple derogatory words to describe homosexuals. He uses derogatory words to describe pretty much every group of people around other than blacks.

graphic-er
04-14-2011, 03:51 PM
I think you'd better be prepared to do some research (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=***got&searchmode=none) before making statements like this.

I'm just saying that the gay man does not own the ***got insult all to themselves. Its not an exclusive pairing.

I will also say that anyone who takes the insult of ***got as being called gay does not know the English language very well. Infact the original gay slur was Fairy.

graphic-er
04-14-2011, 04:03 PM
What I wonder is if players get fined for calling white players "crackers" or does the league just not care about racial slurs directed at white people?

We as a society tear apart anyone who uses a slur towards a minority group, but Eddie Griffin makes a living off racial slurs towards us "whities."

For the record, I really don't care. I don't get offended easily, which is why I make black jokes to my black friends and why I make gay jokes to my gay friends. Regardless if I call them a "***" or "gay" or "homosexual" it all means the samething IMHO. If you want it to be derogatory, you can. Or you can just accept the fact that some people are reta.... I mean dumb, and they will try and hurt you in whatever way they can.

So if you let the term "***" be hurtful they will use it. If you let the term "******" hurt you, then they will use that too. If you let the term "cracker" hurt you, they will use it. If you let the term "hibhob" hurt you, someone will start using that.

You can't change other people. But you can change how you react to the situation.


This is very true, I've always felt that minorities are too quick to act like victims of nothing but words, but they do not exhibit the same amount of political correctness the expect towards themselves.

graphic-er
04-14-2011, 04:07 PM
I also think that Kobe calling that ref a ***got was very appropriate because he called him for sissy foul, one of those touch fouls or the type of foul they call just because you were shoulders with a guy while he was dribbling up the court. It was very soft.

BillS
04-14-2011, 04:12 PM
I'm just saying that the gay man does not own the ***got insult all to themselves. Its not an exclusive pairing.

I will also say that anyone who takes the insult of ***got as being called gay does not know the English language very well. Infact the original gay slur was Fairy.

Did you even <i>look</i> at the reference I provided? Or do you have another source of word origin and usage reference that I am not able to find?

Mackey_Rose
04-14-2011, 04:12 PM
Shocking that this thread has not been locked.

Not that I mind, it is just getting good.

Right when I said that, it went from good to awesome.

Thread of the year. Thanks Kobe.

Since86
04-14-2011, 04:15 PM
This is very true, I've always felt that minorities are too quick to act like victims of nothing but words, but they do not exhibit the same amount of political correctness the expect towards themselves.

That's not what I meant, but......I don't disagree with your statement.

EDIT: I don't think it's a difference between minorities and the majority.

I think it's just a good description of people in general, and it shows that no matter the difference on the outside, we all act the same.

I think as a society we put people down. And if it's a racial slur, we will use it. If it's a sexual slur, we will use it. If the term "lent licker" was a put down, we'd use it.

I don't hold minorities to a higher standard and think that just because I can't call them names they shouldn't be able to call us names.

I just think as a human race we get off on putting other people down, because it makes us feel better about our selves, and that doesn't change with skin color or sexual identity.

Kstat
04-14-2011, 04:17 PM
This is very true, I've always felt that minorities are too quick to act like victims of nothing but words, but they do not exhibit the same amount of political correctness the expect towards themselves.

I think that's all I need to hear. Done with this evolutionary trip in the opposite direction.

Nothing good or fun is going to come from this discussion...it's just going to spotlight people's prejudices that would be best left hidden.

PacersHomer
04-14-2011, 04:18 PM
Bigotry is for ****

graphic-er
04-14-2011, 04:24 PM
Did you even <i>look</i> at the reference I provided? Or do you have another source of word origin and usage reference that I am not able to find?
Yes that reference is fine, that is exactly the word orgin i am familiar with. So what is your point? An earlier use of the word described an old and shrewd woman. One of the earliest uses that were aimed at homosexuals was in New York in the early 1900's at a homosexual ball where gay men dressed in drag. The reporter of the event described them as ***gots because of how badly they looked, Ala an old shrew. Being that the term has it roots in slurring women, calling a man a ***got has connotation of calling him a sissy or soft.

Since86
04-14-2011, 04:26 PM
I think that's all I need to hear. Done with this evolutionary trip in the opposite direction.

Nothing good or fun is going to come from this discussion...it's just going to spotlight people's prejudices that would be best left hidden.

It's obvious you weren't "hearing" anything other than you wanted to hear anyways.

Trader Joe
04-14-2011, 04:26 PM
:mjpopcorn:

graphic-er
04-14-2011, 04:30 PM
That's not what I meant, but......I don't disagree with your statement.

EDIT: I don't think it's a difference between minorities and the majority.

I think it's just a good description of people in general, and it shows that no matter the difference on the outside, we all act the same.

I think as a society we put people down. And if it's a racial slur, we will use it. If it's a sexual slur, we will use it. If the term "lent licker" was a put down, we'd use it.

I don't hold minorities to a higher standard and think that just because I can't call them names they shouldn't be able to call us names.

I just think as a human race we get off on putting other people down, because it makes us feel better about our selves, and that doesn't change with skin color or sexual identity.

I agree, I don't get angry being called a cracker or whitey. Its just an observation of hypocrisy I guess.

90'sNBARocked
04-14-2011, 04:41 PM
I can think of many more occasions where I've heard white guys call other white guys n***er than f***ot.

Yes and I think that is fukin retarded

I am referring to growing up in an all black project where my friends where black and used the N word in reference to anything aand me as well

but I was just part of the group and would use it back

but like I said I would never use it in a public setting

90'sNBARocked
04-14-2011, 04:43 PM
What I wonder is if players get fined for calling white players "crackers" or does the league just not care about racial slurs directed at white people?

We as a society tear apart anyone who uses a slur towards a minority group, but Eddie Griffin makes a living off racial slurs towards us "whities."

For the record, I really don't care. I don't get offended easily, which is why I make black jokes to my black friends and why I make gay jokes to my gay friends. Regardless if I call them a "***" or "gay" or "homosexual" it all means the samething IMHO. If you want it to be derogatory, you can. Or you can just accept the fact that some people are reta.... I mean dumb, and they will try and hurt you in whatever way they can.

So if you let the term "***" be hurtful they will use it. If you let the term "******" hurt you, then they will use that too. If you let the term "cracker" hurt you, they will use it. If you let the term "hibhob" hurt you, someone will start using that.

You can't change other people. But you can change how you react to the situation.

Which is why I find Daniel Tosh, and like comedians, so damn funny.

yes but do you have a black friend who is also gay? talk about an uphill battle

BillS
04-14-2011, 04:43 PM
Yes that reference is fine, that is exactly the word orgin i am familiar with. So what is your point? An earlier use of the word described an old and shrewd woman. One of the earliest uses that were aimed at homosexuals was in New York in the early 1900's at a homosexual ball where gay men dressed in drag. The reporter of the event described them as ***gots because of how badly they looked, Ala an old shrew. Being that the term has it roots in slurring women, calling a man a ***got has connotation of calling him a sissy or soft.

It has been used in the current pejorative sense since 1914. How long does a word have to be used as a slur before you'll accept that it is a slur? 100 years? 200 years?

It's been a slur for 90+ years, it doesn't just mean "sissy", and it shouldn't be used. Words are used to give meaning to the hearer, not to justify the speaker. Otherwise why are you using them?

Hicks
04-14-2011, 04:44 PM
I'm a little surprised that *** is censored on here but ****** isn't.

The censor list has periodically been reset over the years, at which times I've had to rebuild it on the fly. This results in words being left off that ought to be on the list.

As with c***s***** on the other page, and n***** here, once the slip caught my eye, I went and fixed it.

90'sNBARocked
04-14-2011, 04:44 PM
...and yet Tosh still doesn't use those words.

So Tosh is Gay?

I wondered but kind of thought he was

Trader Joe
04-14-2011, 04:44 PM
Thanks Hicks.

90'sNBARocked
04-14-2011, 04:47 PM
:hmm:

Tosh doesn't use what words? He routinely uses multiple derogatory words to describe homosexuals. He uses derogatory words to describe pretty much every group of people around other than blacks.

Nah bro

He insults the brothers too

Like when he had a sceen where it was a young brother jumping off a roof by doing a flip, he was all jokes

But he picks on everybody, whites gays jews, blacks etc

graphic-er
04-14-2011, 04:58 PM
I think that's all I need to hear. Done with this evolutionary trip in the opposite direction.

Nothing good or fun is going to come from this discussion...it's just going to spotlight people's prejudices that would be best left hidden.

You're right, I'm sorry. That might have been going a bit too far for this thread.

graphic-er
04-14-2011, 05:01 PM
It's been a slur for 90+ years, it doesn't just mean "sissy", and it shouldn't be used.
See that is all i'm saying, it doesn't just mean gay either. That Glaad organization and media blew it out of proportion like they own the butt end of that insult. Glad we are in agreement.

Shade
04-14-2011, 05:08 PM
Jeez. Kobe calls someone a cigarette and everyone gets all up-in-arms...

BillS
04-14-2011, 05:41 PM
See that is all i'm saying, it doesn't just mean gay either. That Glaad organization and media blew it out of proportion like they own the butt end of that insult. Glad we are in agreement.

Holy. Cow. You are seriously telling me that the only reason this slur is bad is because some organization said it was?

Wow.


Using a word and really not knowing it can be taken in an offensive way is one thing. Knowing it can be taken in a very offensive way and using it anyway, without establishing your meaning with the listener, is something else. At that point, you know exactly what you're doing and you're hiding behind a flimsy justification.

There are a lot of words out there with old meanings that don't mean the same today that I'd recommend you be pretty careful about using if you don't know who is hearing it.

I guarantee you the majority of people shouting "f***ing f****t" aren't just yelling "you silly sissy". Many of them are violent as they do so. That's justification enough to be upset with anyone else who talks that way, I think.

SMosley21
04-14-2011, 05:55 PM
Nah bro

He insults the brothers too

Like when he had a sceen where it was a young brother jumping off a roof by doing a flip, he was all jokes

But he picks on everybody, whites gays jews, blacks etc

He insults everyone, but he doesn't use any slurs towards black people. None that I've ever heard anyway and I've seen a lot of his material.

BlueNGold
04-14-2011, 06:49 PM
I don't think he should have been penalized at all, but just for perspective sake for those saying it's excessive, fining Kobe $100 grand, is like someone making $50,000 a year getting fined $185.

I agree with many of your posts, but not this one. In fact, this is precisely what I disagree with about this fine. I don't believe that fines of any kind should be tied to how much money you make. WAY more than enough things are already tied to that. I'm tired of the concept that if you make more money the government and other monopolies like the NBA can force people to pay more. Why don't we all stay home and watch cable and live off the govment?

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 07:00 PM
If it were a player dropping N-bombs on a referee, people would say 100K is not nearly enough. The point needs to be made.

N-bombs and I'm sure there's other language, too. Look, Kobe got caught so he has to pay up. When you drive 80 or more, sometimes you get caught, sometimes you don't. But when you do, there's no denying it. I don't agree with that particular language, but being completely pragmatic, people needs to control themselves enough when they're in public arenas...at least.

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 07:03 PM
This is a touchy subject, and one I understand isn't meant for this board, but I just felt the need to say that comparing the non four letter F word and the N word is absolutely ridiculous. It is not the same. Period.

Explain, please.

Jared Sullinger
04-14-2011, 07:11 PM
The term n***er is not an exclusive insult to black people. Feel free to explain that to everyone you use that word against.

I'm confused by your wording.

If you're using the word against someone, then surely it's meant as an insult, no? Any non-insulting alternative definitions are irrelevant in that situation. On the other hand, I wouldn't expect a black person to be offended if I was using the word in a non-insulting manner, and I don't think they would be unless they wanted to be, in which case I'd say they're the one with the issue, not me.

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 07:25 PM
All I kept thinking while reading this thread was:

http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/weenie.htm

<table width="941" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td>
</td> <td colspan="4" valign="top"> Weenie is a very sensitive guy, and it angers and saddens him that everyone isn't just as sensitive as he. An admitted male feminist, Weenie is ever vigilant against anti-progressive attitudes. Though he seldom comes into personal contact with the working classes, he keenly feels the pain of their oppression nonetheless . Weenie's chief antagonists are Troglodyte (http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/troglodyte.htm), Evil Clown (http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm), Capitalista (http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/capitalista.htm) and sometimes Ideologue (http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/ideologue.htm). Because of his natural petulance Weenie can easily be goaded into battle, but he is encumbered by a tendency to throw temper tantrums when severely pressed. </td></tr></tbody></table>

Just keep perpetuating an anti-aware, pro-caveman world I guess.

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 07:29 PM
Actually it is, i know technically the word just means one who is ignorant, but it is exclusively meant in reference to blacks. Nobody in that era was going around calling Indians or Chinese people ******.

You can't say the same about the word ***got. Its totally different. The world describes an emasculation of the male persona. A sissy if you will. Its like when you are a kid and you and your friends are crossing a busy street and one kid is scared to go. You would all chide him and call him a ***got. That does not mean you are calling him a gay. Its just that stereotypically gays exhibited behaviors that are considered emasculate.

So one word was used to define a race for just being, the other was used to define behavioral patterns.

So we'll just keep letting it go so that stereotype can continue being reinforced? I don't like either the term for either of the two signifieds.

Bball
04-14-2011, 07:30 PM
I agree with many of your posts, but not this one. In fact, this is precisely what I disagree with about this fine. I don't believe that fines of any kind should be tied to how much money you make. WAY more than enough things are already tied to that. I'm tired of the concept that if you make more money the government and other monopolies like the NBA can force people to pay more. Why don't we all stay home and watch cable and live off the govment?

Also, the value of that 100K is the same no matter who has it. So overall I agree with your point.

... of course for consistency the fine could be a percentage of the contract... So a player making a 2 million could be levied the same fine... in percentage... for the same offense in the future....

But to pull a random $100,000.00 number out of the air just strikes me as wrong and excessive.

But again I go back to the point I tried to make earlier- Fine him for disrespecting game in an amount consistent with similar offenses.... not the word(s) he used. Let the PR hit he gets from that be the punishment and lesson for it.

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 07:33 PM
The funny thing is growing up I was called the "N word" by my friends who called each other , and me the N word.

I would never say that to someone I dont know but the dudes who called me one , I would use the word back in the same context they used it

The word ***got though to me is universal. I dont even think , at least to me, it means gay

nowadays to me, ***got means, a soft guy, or just a plain dikhead

I may not agree, but for you to use ****** between friends is different that Kobe using it publicly against a ref. That's precisely the point, you wouldn't have used ****** with someone who was not very close. That's my issue here. Same as the poster who talked about using any of these potentially derogatory terms in a professional, or otherwise inappropriate context.

MarvelousMarvin
04-14-2011, 07:35 PM
I may not agree, but for you to use ****** between friends is different that Kobe using it publicly against a ref. That's precisely the point, you wouldn't have used ****** with someone who was not very close. That's my issue here. Same as the poster who talked about using any of these potentially derogatory terms in a professional, or otherwise inappropriate context.

He didn't scream it in his face he said it from far away while on the bench I doubt that the ref even heard him.

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 07:36 PM
Context is key. When words have multiple meanings, we must look at the context in order to determine the specific usage.

Knowing that the word f***** is used both as a slur for homosexual males and as a term roughly synonymous with "idiot," when looking at the context in which Kobe used it (a referee he believed made a bad call), it seems obvious to me that it was the latter. He could've been more tactful in his choice of word as to not offend the willfully offended, yes, but like he said, it was in the heat of the moment. People usually don't take the time to choose their words wisely in such emotional situations.

Perhaps those smearing Mamba with the label of "homophobe" (a term that I'd argue, itself, has become a slur) should be the ones issuing the apologies?

Yes, context is key. Kobe's a professional in the public eye insulting another person in his profession. Plus it's being nationally broadcast. Kobe needs to learn to control his temper and how he expresses it. That's the point. Kobe, of all people, should know better.

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 07:37 PM
Can I say this here - it has little to do with this topic. My brother and I roomed together for 3 years, It was when I was in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade. he was 3 years older than me .

One night I guess I was goofing around and being a pain (maybe I was up listening to a Pacers game) but he wanted to go to sleep, so he said "take off your clothes and get in bed you f** without the ot. of course at the time I had no idea nor did he that what he said had any meaning besides - be quiet and go to sleep.

Sure, but Kobe's a grown man.

MarvelousMarvin
04-14-2011, 07:39 PM
Yes, context is key. Kobe's a professional in the public eye insulting another person in his profession. Plus it's being nationally broadcast. Kobe needs to learn to control his temper and how he expresses it. That's the point. Kobe, of all people, should know better.

Wow, it seems as though some people have never played a game of basketball to know how emotional it gets. A swear is a swear I don't care if he called him a m***** f***** or a n***** or a fa**** it was in the heat of the game and I seriously doubt he walks around calling people it.

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 07:40 PM
Missed. The. Point.

How shocking you would.

EDIT: Is it any less offensive if I just change out the slur for a more direct name?

I guess Tosh's joke about his idea that the NCAA should give one more point to white players who score a basket isn't racist, because he didn't use the the N-word in it.....

I mean, his reasoning behind the idea is to let the other black players know that the white man will still be worth more and to let the white players know that they still have value in athletics.

But NOOOO, that's not racist at all. There's no slur in the joke!!!!!

Kobe's not a comedian. Whether it's justifiable or not, some forms of art and entertainment are allowed more leeway in terms of taboo subjects. Kobe just needs to control himself. He know what the limits are.

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 07:43 PM
This is very true, I've always felt that minorities are too quick to act like victims of nothing but words, but they do not exhibit the same amount of political correctness the expect towards themselves.

Never had a a minority call me a cracker to my face. If they did, I would be disappointed.

EDIT: Wouldn't dwell on it, but would be disappointed.

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 07:53 PM
Wow, it seems as though some people have never played a game of basketball to know how emotional it gets. A swear is a swear I don't care if he called him a m***** f***** or a n***** or a fa**** it was in the heat of the game and I seriously doubt he walks around calling people it.

So I'm in my office at work, I'm pissed at a coworker I don't get along with, and somebody walks in just as I'm venting about the ****ing ***got. I or anyone else wouldn't be in hot water if reported? I know people are going back and forth in the hall and could be stopping in at any point. It's professionalism and common courtesy. Know your surroundings. I'm must talking common sense here.

90'sNBARocked
04-14-2011, 08:20 PM
I may not agree, but for you to use ****** between friends is different that Kobe using it publicly against a ref. That's precisely the point, you wouldn't have used ****** with someone who was not very close. That's my issue here. Same as the poster who talked about using any of these potentially derogatory terms in a professional, or otherwise inappropriate context.

yeah in retrospect might not have been the best , but everyone please liste to A Tribe Called Quests song "Sucka Nigga" it breaks it down real well

It was simply used as a way of saying "my man"

like he is my nigga, or this nigga crazy so they would just refer to me in the same fashion. So my thing is if you can call me that I can do the same thing.

Again though I wouldnt say that randomly in public

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 08:30 PM
yeah in retrospect might not have been the best , but everyone please liste to A Tribe Called Quests song "Sucka Nigga" it breaks it down real well

It was simply used as a way of saying "my man"

like he is my nigga, or this nigga crazy so they would just refer to me in the same fashion. So my thing is if you can call me that I can do the same thing.

Again though I wouldnt say that randomly in public

If you use the term in a situation where it was acceptable amongst close friends in a primarily confidential/personal setting (register), I have no qualms.

The song and group your reference are great. What I'm arguing is people need to be cognizant of the context in which they say things. Would Q-tip call a brother he didn't know at all ******/nigga in a public forum or at all? Maybe he would, but I have my doubts. Would he call him ****** o nigga for that matter? That's a related, but different discussion.

My issue is more about knowing when certain language is permissible and when it isn't. I'm sure Kobe wasn't really labeling the ref a ***got. But he took out his frustration in a public forum where he ran the risk of it being overheard and it was.

dal9
04-14-2011, 08:34 PM
Wow, it seems as though some people have never played a game of basketball to know how emotional it gets. A swear is a swear I don't care if he called him a m***** f***** or a n***** or a fa**** it was in the heat of the game and I seriously doubt he walks around calling people it.

ya, youve heard white people call blacks "n-----r" in a heated basketball game? Or blacks calling whites "cracker?" I haven't...

D-BONE
04-14-2011, 08:35 PM
Wow, it seems as though some people have never played a game of basketball to know how emotional it gets. A swear is a swear I don't care if he called him a m***** f***** or a n***** or a fa**** it was in the heat of the game and I seriously doubt he walks around calling people it.

I still play sports competitively, but I would...

A) try to control/suppress expletive outbursts to the extent that I could
B) in the event that I let loose definitely not do so with words, such as ****** or ***got, which are most certainly loaded terms that could be misconstrued regardless of my true intent

I know lots of people who wouldn't want to have me continue playing with them if I was making these kind of scenes. Kobe - et al - need to stop acting like babies.

dal9
04-14-2011, 08:36 PM
. Why don't we all stay home and watch cable and live off the govment?
Nothing's stopping you, if you really think you would be better off...

dal9
04-14-2011, 08:41 PM
On the other hand, I wouldn't expect a black person to be offended if I was using the word in a non-insulting manner, and I don't think they would be unless they wanted to be, in which case I'd say they're the one with the issue, not me.

how do you use "n----r" in an un-insulting manner?

Jared Sullinger
04-14-2011, 08:54 PM
how do you use "n----r" in an un-insulting manner?

Urban Dictionary can help you out.

dal9
04-14-2011, 08:59 PM
Urban Dictionary can help you out.

thanks, i looked, didnt get past the first page...the first seven definitions listed looked like they were written by Stormfront members...

Mackey_Rose
04-15-2011, 12:48 AM
I agree with many of your posts, but not this one. In fact, this is precisely what I disagree with about this fine. I don't believe that fines of any kind should be tied to how much money you make. WAY more than enough things are already tied to that. I'm tired of the concept that if you make more money the government and other monopolies like the NBA can force people to pay more. Why don't we all stay home and watch cable and live off the govment?

You are absolutely right. I 100% agree, and worded my post poorly. Thanks for calling me out on my error. $100,000 is $100,000 regardless of how you cut it. That's a lot of money no matter who you are.

I guess my view of it all is that I don't think he should have been fined 1 penny, but at least Kobe's family isn't going to go hungry over this.

David Stern should save stealing from the rich and giving to the poor for Robin Hood and Obama.