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imbtyler
04-09-2011, 02:39 PM
"Lance Stephenson is done playing for the Pacers this season. He'll be the 4th point guard after violation of team rules. Immaturity - again."

link (http://twitter.com/#!/MikeWellsNBA/statuses/56787917716201472)

imbtyler
04-09-2011, 02:40 PM
"Vogel: 'He'll be the 4th point guard through the playoffs. This is being doing for disciplinary reasons. T.J. (Ford) will be our 3rd PG.'"

"Ford may play tomorrow against the Knicks, but he'll definitely play at Orlando on Wednesday."

whaaaaaaat?

BringJackBack
04-09-2011, 02:41 PM
**** this dude.. Enough is enough. What an idiot.

imbtyler
04-09-2011, 02:42 PM
**** this dude.. Enough is enough.

yeh, I had faith in him and his attitude, but now it's just sounding like he IS what everyone says he is: a little kid in big shorts.

With soooo much potential.

neosmndrew
04-09-2011, 02:43 PM
Trade him for cash or a 2nd round pick or anything- get him off the team. Larry made it clear that he was doing him a favor by giving him a chance, and he blew it. He needs to be gone.

Trader Joe
04-09-2011, 02:43 PM
Just cut him.

ZepZach
04-09-2011, 02:44 PM
Yep. I was a big supporter of Lance, but at this point I would have no problems if the team let him go. Red flags everywhere.

O'Braindead
04-09-2011, 02:44 PM
Where there is smoke there is fire. We have a volcano.

:sadbanana

Psyren
04-09-2011, 02:49 PM
I was always one of the people who continued to give him the benefit of the doubt.

He's just not worth it though. This is ridiculous. When the offseason comes, it's time to cut him. Give us that extra roster spot.

It's a shame, but what a joke this has become.

mattie
04-09-2011, 02:50 PM
We don't know the full story. He obviously deserves the punishment, but doesn't mean his career is done as a Pacer. He could grow up this summer, a good off season to grow up and consider his situation might change a lot of things.

So no, I wouldn't cut him.

Sookie
04-09-2011, 02:53 PM
"Vogel: 'He'll be the 4th point guard through the playoffs. This is being doing for disciplinary reasons. T.J. (Ford) will be our 3rd PG.'"

"Ford may play tomorrow against the Knicks, but he'll definitely play at Orlando on Wednesday."

whaaaaaaat?

You gotta let him get a little run before the playoffs.

You don't want to risk injuries for the rest of the season, and if DC or AJ twist their ankle or something TJ's first time playing in like 3 months will be in the playoffs..against Rose.

Anyway..I wonder what Lance could have done to get himself banned from playing for the rest of the season..I mean..you really couldn't find a better time to play him than now.

Eleazar
04-09-2011, 02:55 PM
Just cut him.

I don't get how people can say "Just cut him". Why not try and find a trade for him, even if it is just for a second round pick it is better than just cutting him.

speakout4
04-09-2011, 02:57 PM
We don't know the full story. He obviously deserves the punishment, but doesn't mean his career is done as a Pacer. He could grow up this summer, a good off season to grow up and consider his situation might change a lot of things.

So no, I wouldn't cut him.
Neither would I. Shawne Williams is apparently turning his career around but it took time.

As long as his transgressions don't involve criminal activity i would give him the second year.

Trader Joe
04-09-2011, 02:58 PM
I don't get how people can say "Just cut him". Why not try and find a trade for him, even if it is just for a second round pick it is better than just cutting him.

Why would anyone trade for him?

TheDon
04-09-2011, 02:58 PM
Very disappointing to say the least, can't say he didn't get a fair shake. if he had any ounce of sense he'd have realized that there was a strong possibility if he just minded his p's and q's he might have been able to compete for the backup point guard spot next year if he worked on his game. I don't think he understands the gravity of the situation he's putting himself in, but some people have to learn the hard way. If he gets another chance i'd be surprised, I bet we just cut him.

Midcoasted
04-09-2011, 03:03 PM
Wow I guess my TJ Ford posts weren't that far off after all. I would take TJ over Price with the second unit at this point. He's the best player right now today (not in the future) at creating his own shot on this team. He never got to play a style of basketball that played to his strengths instead of his weaknesses.

This really could be an x-factor going into the playoffs. Really if we are going to play it fair, what has TJ ever done to us that shows he doesn't deserve to be our backup at this point? I think Price has better defense and I guess you can't take Price out because of chemistry issues.

Maybe we could run a Price and Ford lineup against the Bulls and catch their second unit off gaurd? TJ driving to the bucket and creating his shots while collapsing defenses, like he always does. He just makes bad decisions. Maybe that was largely due to scheme. Ford passing out to Price nailing the wide open three in the second unit? Hmmmmm.....

As for Lance, I rode him high, but he's a second round pick. No news here. If he makes it, he makes it, if he doesn't well it never really mattered anyways. Low risk, high reward. The risk you gotta take sometimes if you ever want to find a gem, espescially in the second round. I prefer taking risks in the second round. I think our biggest mistake was his gauranteed contract, but I think another team would have offered him one after his summer league performance.

Maybe the writing is on the wall. Maybe he's just pissed because he isn't playing and took it to the point where he violated team rules? All we can do is speculate...He'll either grow up or he won't.

Psyren
04-09-2011, 03:06 PM
I don't get how people can say "Just cut him". Why not try and find a trade for him, even if it is just for a second round pick it is better than just cutting him.

Just as Trader Joe said, why would anyone in their right minds trade for him?

He had a great shot here if he just could keep his head on straight. He'd likely be able to compete for the backup PG spot next year, and it's obvious that Bird and company like him.

If they've seen how he acted here, why would they want him? I suppose they could take him and hope for something, but he seems like more trouble that he's worth to me.

I know that if I were an NBA GM, after seeing his behavior here, I would not trade a 2nd round pick for him. I'd wait for them to cut him and then sign him outright if I was really that excited about him.

pacer4ever
04-09-2011, 03:09 PM
:picardriker:

What a waste of talent.

imbtyler
04-09-2011, 03:12 PM
Why would anyone trade for him?

Minnesota might like him.

:khan:

wait, did I spell that wrong?

Peck
04-09-2011, 03:13 PM
Unbelievable.....

Talk about stupidity. My guess is that he would have had huge playing time vs. the Magic to show what he can do.

I guess some peopel see the finish line rope & decide to hang themselves with it.

It's a dang shame to because I really liked his size and handles, but with the group we have now I want no distractions, period.

Midcoasted
04-09-2011, 03:16 PM
Just as Trader Joe said, why would anyone in their right minds trade for him?

He had a great shot here if he just could keep his head on straight. He'd likely be able to compete for the backup PG spot next year, and it's obvious that Bird and company like him.

If they've seen how he acted here, why would they want him? I suppose they could take him and hope for something, but he seems like more trouble that he's worth to me.

I know that if I were an NBA GM, after seeing his behavior here, I would not trade a 2nd round pick for him. I'd wait for them to cut him and then sign him outright if I was really that excited about him.

Maybe Bird just came out of his nest and laid the smack down? Or maybe he needs to? Or maybe we just had built a case against Lance, and wanted Ford back in the rotation for the playoffs and dropped the hammer? One thing about Ford is he is a professional at least.

wintermute
04-09-2011, 03:19 PM
Why would anyone trade for him?

Well, we did get those low 2nd rounders for Shawne, which became Price and Magnum. Price is still on the roster so I guess that's a win.

If there are no takers, then cut him. But for now, just put him on ice to avoid further distractions. Absolutely the last thing we need.

imbtyler
04-09-2011, 03:19 PM
Mike Wells' response to my question of (basically) what happened:

"Just ongoing immaturity problems. There's a difference in being 20 and acting 20. And being 20 and acting only 15."

So I speculate that he stole Vogel's car and drove it into a street lamp about 30 feet down Penn.

imbtyler
04-09-2011, 03:20 PM
Well, we did get those low 2nd rounders for Shawne, which became Price and Magnum. Price is still on the roster so I guess that's a win.

If there are no takers, then cut him. But for now, just put him on ice to avoid further distractions. Absolutely the last thing we need.

If it had to make a difference, I'd switch him and Magnum. Better to have an additional big man (in the more likely case of a Foster back injury) than another wing or "4th PG". That just makes our roster sound congested.

mattie
04-09-2011, 03:21 PM
Right, lets not overreact. The reality is as this is an ongoing problem, they're trying to be very tough on him as we don't need him at all now, so this is a chance to force him to grow up.

Sookie
04-09-2011, 03:23 PM
Maybe the "ongoing" thing is why Lance was the one put in street clothes (when the obvious choice was Posey)

I'm just curious at this point. Like I said..what could he have possibly done to get himself essentially banned for the rest of the season, at the very best time to play him.

edit: Also, for TJ, hopefully he plays pretty well in his few minutes so some teams might take a chance on him next season. He's been professional throughout this whole ordeal. I think he's a terrible point guard. But being a good and professional person is much more important.

SMosley21
04-09-2011, 03:26 PM
If he isn't going to play for the rest of the season and the team plans on cutting him or trading him in the off season then I would suspect that he won't even be with the team from this point forward. If he's still on the bench, even in street clothes, then I doubt we're getting rid of him.

Midcoasted
04-09-2011, 03:26 PM
Mike Wells' response to my question of (basically) what happened:

"Just ongoing immaturity problems. There's a difference in being 20 and acting 20. And being 20 and acting only 15."

So I speculate that he stole Vogel's car and drove it into a street lamp about 30 feet down Penn.

LOL. Great time to bring some humor to the situation. I can't believe I got on PD on this beautiful day and boom, another Lance bombshell.

imawhat
04-09-2011, 03:29 PM
I would love to hear what caused him to be shut down.

I'm glad we're trying to teach him a lesson.

Either Bird/Morway are ignoring advice or we hired some terrible investigators when we did our due diligence.

Our all-time missed potential team is crazy talented. Lance/Artest/Shawne/Bender/Harrison.

pacer4ever
04-09-2011, 03:30 PM
Right, lets not overreact. The reality is as this is an ongoing problem, they're trying to be very tough on him as we don't need him at all now, so this is a chance to force him to grow up.

I like what they are doing they are basicly saying grow up or your not playing. Remember this guy feels entilted because he has always been told he was the greatest his whole life. I think Bird will tell him this offseason if you dont grow up your option wont be picked up and most likley wont be in the NBA anymore. If that doesnt sink in next year time to cut him.

dal9
04-09-2011, 03:32 PM
So for the playoffs you have to submit your roster for at least the entire round. Which of these two should be inactive with Lance?

-Solo (3rd center)
-Posey (4th PF, but with playoff experience)
-TJ (3rd PG).


...tough choices.

dal9
04-09-2011, 03:33 PM
I like what they are doing they are basicly saying grow up or your not playing. Remember this guy feels entilted because he has always been told he was the greatest his whole life. I think Bird will tell him this offseason if you dont grow up your option wont be picked up and most likley wont be in the NBA anymore. If that doesnt sink in next year time to cut him.

i dont think its up to the pacers to pick up his option. doesnt he have some crazy 3 year guaranteed contract?

Peck
04-09-2011, 03:35 PM
So for the playoffs you have to submit your roster for at least the entire round. Which of these two should be inactive with Lance?

-Solo (3rd center)
-Posey (4th PF, but with playoff experience)
-TJ (3rd PG).


...tough choices.

Solo for sure. Josh can man the 5 in an emergency.

Knowing that we are going to face D. Rose I'd probably rather have T.J. available.

Hicks
04-09-2011, 03:36 PM
We don't know the full story. He obviously deserves the punishment, but doesn't mean his career is done as a Pacer. He could grow up this summer, a good off season to grow up and consider his situation might change a lot of things.

How old are you, and how many children have you worked with?

I'm highly, highly, HIGHLY, cynical that he's going to magically 'grow up this summer.' If he's lucky, he'll grow up by 2021.

imbtyler
04-09-2011, 03:36 PM
LOL. Great time to bring some humor to the situation. I can't believe I got on PD on this beautiful day and boom, another Lance bombshell.

Go figure, right? At least the team isn't going to just play games (no pun intended) with Lance's time. No questions asked, just move in TJ and put Lance back in a suit (with Posey and Solo). If we do plan to keep him around, the least we can do is teach him a lesson. And the best way to help do that is by replacing him with the only player who hasn't received time since Vogel started. Lance fell below Dahntay, now he's below TJ, and he's getting no time for the rest of the season (however long that shall continue).

I'm not in favor of cutting/trading him until at least next season, just because we have a long way to go this offseason, and he may play a big part if he can grow up and "stop acting 15".

Sookie
04-09-2011, 03:38 PM
So for the playoffs you have to submit your roster for at least the entire round. Which of these two should be inactive with Lance?

-Solo (3rd center)
-Posey (4th PF, but with playoff experience)
-TJ (3rd PG).


...tough choices.

Posey and Solo.

You need TJ available if something happens to Price or Collison.

O'Braindead
04-09-2011, 03:38 PM
bkravitz Robert Kravitz
Athletes rarely badmouth teammates, on or off the record. Not the case with Lance Stephenson -- kid's poison. Guaranteed deal, too. Dumb.
9 minutes ago

MikeWellsNBA Mike Wells
This is the 3rd time in 8 months Stephenson is making negative news. He was the focal point behind the lockerroom blow up n Houston
28 minutes ago

Now we sort of have an idea what it is.

pacer4ever
04-09-2011, 03:40 PM
i dont think its up to the pacers to pick up his option. doesnt he have some crazy 3 year guaranteed contract?

no 4 yr deal only 2 yrs guarteed (2 yrs 2 many for a 2nd rd pick)

Hicks
04-09-2011, 03:41 PM
By the way, Lance Stephenson makes me really uncomfortable with Bird and Morway moving forward. Not only did they draft this kid, not only did they keep him after he ****ed up the first time, but they actually tried to TRADE INTO THE FIRST ROUND to pick this idiot.

That's a red flag on the front office.

BringJackBack
04-09-2011, 03:41 PM
Smdh.

Our guys don't deserve a cancer like this in the locker room..

Karlton
04-09-2011, 03:44 PM
I don't get how people can say "Just cut him". Why not try and find a trade for him, even if it is just for a second round pick it is better than just cutting him.

Examine:

1) Why would we want to cut him?

2) Knowing how you answered #1, why would anyone give us anything for him?

speakout4
04-09-2011, 03:45 PM
Smdh.

Our guys don't deserve a cancer like this in the locker room..
Send him home for the season and tell him to come back next fall with some smarts. He can always be cut, traded, or whatever. This does not have to be decided now.

Gold
04-09-2011, 03:52 PM
Face_palm. lol. But I'm not on the "Give up on/trade Lance," boat yet. Really it's whatever to me. The guy hasn't been playing and he's not important to the team right now. When he stops doing whatever he does, he will get the opportunity to play, contribute, and one day reach his potential. Maybe he'll learn his lesson. Who knows?

wintermute
04-09-2011, 03:52 PM
Lance is guaranteed 810k for next season, and unguaranteed after that as per Shamsports. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. But still...


By the way, Lance Stephenson makes me really uncomfortable with Bird and Morway moving forward. Not only did they draft this kid, not only did they keep him after he ****ed up the first time, but they actually tried to TRADE INTO THE FIRST ROUND to pick this idiot.

That's a red flag on the front office.

Yup. Not to mention we tried to go after OJ Mayo.

I know we need more talent, but aren't we being a little reckless with character evaluations? Isn't that what sunk us last time?

Particularly damning is that Stephenson was known to have character issues. And yet the Pacers took him on...

imbtyler
04-09-2011, 03:57 PM
Face_palm. lol. But I'm not on the "Give up on/trade Lance," boat yet. Really it's whatever to me. The guy hasn't been playing and he's not important to the team right now. When he stops doing whatever he does, he will get the opportunity to play, contribute, and one day reach his potential. Maybe he'll learn his lesson. Who knows?

It sounds like the problems he's having are "badmouthing teammates, on or off the record". So if he's talking back and/or being rude to other Pacers, that's a chemistry issue, and going into our first Playoff appearance in four years, we need our chemistry at its highest. If players aren't getting along in any way, shape, or form, it depletes how well they gel with each other.

pacer4ever
04-09-2011, 04:00 PM
http://www.indycornrows.com/2011/4/9/2100855/lance-stephenson-done-for-year-with-Indiana-pacers

Justin Tyme
04-09-2011, 04:08 PM
So for the playoffs you have to submit your roster for at least the entire round. Which of these two should be inactive with Lance?

-Solo (3rd center)
-Posey (4th PF, but with playoff experience)
-TJ (3rd PG).


...tough choices.



It obviously won't be Ford now.

If only Stephenson could have learned how to be like Ford on how to handle things, he would have been far better off and maybe have a NBA career.

There was a reason why Walsh drafted Fields and Rautins at 38 and 39 right b4 the Pacers drafted Stephenson at 40.

dal9
04-09-2011, 04:12 PM
It obviously won't be Ford now.



well i doubt lance would have been active for the playoffs anyway, so the suspension doesn't change the answer to my question...i lean towards keeping ford active, too, but recently, posey has been the 12th man active, and i wonder if it would be seen as a slap in the face to posey to inactivate him for the playoffs (not that that is a great reason to keep him active).

SMosley21
04-09-2011, 04:13 PM
I move that we all just ignore this crap and keep focusing on the positives right now. We are back in the playoffs and we're playing great right now. Let's start talking about that stuff again. Don't let this knucklehead take the focus off of that stuff.

BringJackBack
04-09-2011, 04:14 PM
Thank you SMosley.

Trader Joe
04-09-2011, 04:14 PM
Do some of you continue to touch the stove even after it is hot? Why should we wait to see if Lance grows up?

xBulletproof
04-09-2011, 04:15 PM
I've probably been one of the hardest on Lance on here. I heard him talk the first time and thought he was less intelligent than a box of rocks. I also think he's not half as talented as some people want him to be on here.

That said, I wouldn't cut him now. Before he leaves this year, if I'm Bird I'm telling him to cut the **** or he won't make it through training camp next year. Do some soul searching and hope you find something good.

If he comes in next year and shows one iota of immaturity, he's gone during training camp.

Justin Tyme
04-09-2011, 04:22 PM
By the way, Lance Stephenson makes me really uncomfortable with Bird and Morway moving forward. Not only did they draft this kid, not only did they keep him after he ****ed up the first time, but they actually tried to TRADE INTO THE FIRST ROUND to pick this idiot.

That's a red flag on the front office.



I have said from the get go it was Bird who drafted Williams and White. He liked their potential. Others have disagreed, but with Stephenson being drafted on potential as far as I'm concerned it points directly to Bird. Those 2 picks of Williams and White is the reason why I felt Bird picked 4 year players in Rush, Tyler, and Hibbert. He's 0-3 when picking young players with issues. If Bird stays, lets hope he has learned his lesson!

BillS
04-09-2011, 04:23 PM
I would love to hear what caused him to be shut down.

I'm glad we're trying to teach him a lesson.

Either Bird/Morway are ignoring advice or we hired some terrible investigators when we did our due diligence.

Our all-time missed potential team is crazy talented. Lance/Artest/Shawne/Bender/Harrison.


By the way, Lance Stephenson makes me really uncomfortable with Bird and Morway moving forward. Not only did they draft this kid, not only did they keep him after he ****ed up the first time, but they actually tried to TRADE INTO THE FIRST ROUND to pick this idiot.

That's a red flag on the front office.

What is kind of funny to me is how PD's tolerance as fans for behavior issues has dropped through the floor at the same time as many people are disputing that the character of the post-brawl team had anything to do with the city fan base evaporating.

We've gone from making apologies for violence and arrests to questioning the front office because a rookie - a second round rookie - is mouthing off.

Even if they'd traded up into the first round for him, he'd still have been our second pick, not our first pick.

I don't like what he seems to be doing any more than the next guy, but it seems to me like the team is doing the proper thing by disciplining him in this way.

If you are going to question the FO because they drafted someone who is a hothead to his teammates, you are going to leave a lot of potential on the table by insisting on players with no locker room issues whatsoever. Taking a risk is what the second round pick is for, we took a chance, if it bites us so what - we can dump him with little consequence.

LA_Confidential
04-09-2011, 04:33 PM
I don't see how anyone can call Lance Stephenson a cancer to our locker room. He is a second round rookie, the youngest player on the team and he's like the 12th/13th man on the bench. If he was anything more than that I would consider him a cancer. Its not like we depend on him for anything but his potential. Its not like we drafted Demarcus Cousins. Is Lance's Photo even in the media guide? The Kid is a Project and if anything good comes out of him then Bird will look like a Genius. He has 1 more year to get his act together if he doesnt, cut ties and he will forever be used as a fail reference.

Sookie
04-09-2011, 04:34 PM
I don't mind them taking the risk. He could have been very much worth the risk.

But I hope they are willing to cut the chord if need be.

However, I agree with Bullet. Now's not the time to do that. It's the end of the year and he won't be playing anyway. See how he is at training camp next season.

That said, I might consider removing him from the team now. (Not cutting, just, sending him home) I don't want any chemistry issues..and if he's annoying his teammates enough that the team has decided not to play him, at the best time to possibly play him..maybe he doesn't need to be around the rest of the guys.

Justin Tyme
04-09-2011, 04:34 PM
Send him home for the season and tell him to come back next fall with some smarts. He can always be cut, traded, or whatever. This does not have to be decided now.


I see what you are saying, but as I've said since the staircase incident the Pacers can't afford more PR problems. If he's kept on the team, you just increase the chance of his immaturity raising it's ugly head again in a PR issue. My feeling is you get rid of him the sooner the better b4 he causes the Pacers a major PR nightmare ruining all the good PR this team has created of late. He's nothing but a 2nd round pick. Cut the umbilical cord and move on.

Dr. Hibbert
04-09-2011, 04:39 PM
Right, lets not overreact. The reality is as this is an ongoing problem, they're trying to be very tough on him as we don't need him at all now, so this is a chance to force him to grow up.

Enough with the chances. In situations like these, I always refer to this Family Guy clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BepgNl14dVc).

Lance didn't get it the first 10 times he was told. Why the hell would we think it will be any different on the 11th?

Justin Tyme
04-09-2011, 04:39 PM
Particularly damning is that Stephenson was known to have character issues. And yet the Pacers took him on...


I feel this is very concerning, especially after Williams and White!

vnzla81
04-09-2011, 04:43 PM
This seems to me like an excuse to bring TJ back, Wells is been saying all year that Lance is immature, now the Pacers are finding this out? I don't believe that.

Good idea by the Pacers by the way, in bringing TJ in case our point guards can't handle the playoffs pressure.

Justin Tyme
04-09-2011, 04:43 PM
It sounds like the problems he's having are "badmouthing teammates, on or off the record". So if he's talking back and/or being rude to other Pacers, that's a chemistry issue, and going into our first Playoff appearance in four years, we need our chemistry at its highest. If players aren't getting along in any way, shape, or form, it depletes how well they gel with each other.



We saw what happened when it raised it's ugly head awhile back, so as you alluded to the Pacers don't need the issues he brings going into the playoffs. Ship him home immediately if not sooner, and deal with the situation after the playoffs.

thewholefnshow31
04-09-2011, 04:47 PM
Bird giving this guy guaranteed money of any amount was the dumbest thing ever.

This guy is going to be nothing but trouble for this franchise. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you have nothing upstairs like this guy you will amount to nothing.

We should just get rid of him. It's only a matter of time before he really screws up.

ndcoltsnpacers
04-09-2011, 04:50 PM
I just hope we have a chance to get rid of the guy one way or another before he does something that's really newsworthy around here.

Eleazar
04-09-2011, 04:51 PM
Examine:

1) Why would we want to cut him?

2) Knowing how you answered #1, why would anyone give us anything for him?

When has there ever been a lack of GMs willing to take a risk on young potential who has some attitude problems? That has never stopped GMs before if it is a low risk/high reward situation like it would be with Stephenson. 2nd round pick worth very little to most teams, and if that is all a GM has to give up in order to get him I can guarantee that there are multiple GMs willing to take a chance on him.

I swear I feel like I am the only one on this board who has a long term memory for anything other than the brawl and Rush.

The brawl is not still affecting attendance. The only thing affecting attendance anymore is the losing.

Rush is not inconsistent. Rush is one of the more consistent players on this team.

Kegboy
04-09-2011, 04:53 PM
It's a shame that there probably won't be a summer league. It would give TPTB (and possibly a new coaching staff) the opportunity to evaluate him after a couple months away from each other. Of course, maybe it's for the best. He could go out and have two good games and they might sign him to another extension.

As it stands, I would be looking to dump him. If anyone calls about him this summer, let them have him. Any chance to add him to a larger trade, take it.

It doesn't matter that he's the 15th man. As was shown in Houston, if he's in the locker room, he can cause trouble. As long as he's employed by the Pacers, he's a possible Club Rio waiting to happen. Just because we made the playoffs it doesn't mean our PR issues have magically disappeared.

speakout4
04-09-2011, 04:53 PM
Bird giving this guy guaranteed money of any amount was the dumbest thing ever.

This guy is going to be nothing but trouble for this franchise. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you have nothing upstairs like this guy you will amount to nothing.

We should just get rid of him. It's only a matter of time before he really screws up.
Unlike Bender, Tinsley, or TJ, Lance can be gotten rid of vey easily because the team has not made any real investment in him. Again, Shawne Williams was discarded by two teams and now seems to get it so there is precedent for someone growing up. Like people say how much damage can a young 20 year old second round pick who never plays do ?

Sookie
04-09-2011, 04:56 PM
Unlike Bender, Tinsley, or TJ, Lance can be gotten rid of vey easily because the team has not made any real investment in him. Again, Shawne Williams was discarded by two teams and now seems to get it so there is precedent for someone growing up. Like people say how much damage can a young 20 year old second round pick who never plays do ?

it really depends on what the problem is.

Personality clashes can be a problem. Particularly on a team that doesn't really have a hierarchy/leader.

speakout4
04-09-2011, 05:00 PM
it really depends on what the problem is.

Personality clashes can be a problem. Particularly on a team that doesn't really have a hierarchy/leader.
So we send him home because he won't see a minute of playing time anyway. If not being with the team during playoffs doesn't teach him something then there is little hope.

Justin Tyme
04-09-2011, 05:29 PM
if it bites us so what -


SO WHAT?? Are serious? So what if he causes the Pacers another PR nightmare in the future when this team is now in the playoffs and getting fans interested again? Ownership has lost MILLIONS and lost thousands of fans coming to games b/c of PR nightmares. What was once a proud franchise was humbled to it's knees by players who were constantly in the news having caused PR problems. This team is now generating interest again and enthusiasm. WHY risk it for Stephenson?

Your view is "so what" Stephenson is just a 2nd round pick. His actions can't be detrimental or hurt the Pacers. You need to step back and reconsider. Stephenson has as much potential to cause a MAJOR PR NIGHTMARE as some feel he has of being a good player. You might be able to feel Stephenson can't hurt the Pacers, but Herb Simon can ill afford another PR nightmare from a player who has already shown the propensity to create NUMEROUS issues and problems. Put yourself in Herb's position!

PacersHomer
04-09-2011, 05:35 PM
Now he has more time to get his *** fingered at least.

Karlton
04-09-2011, 05:36 PM
When has there ever been a lack of GMs willing to take a risk on young potential who has some attitude problems? That has never stopped GMs before if it is a low risk/high reward situation like it would be with Stephenson. 2nd round pick worth very little to most teams, and if that is all a GM has to give up in order to get him I can guarantee that there are multiple GMs willing to take a chance on him.

If all we are getting back for a "low risk/high reward situation like it would be with Stephenson" is a "2nd round pick worth very little to most teams", then why would we bother trading him at all?

Secondly, Stephenson was a second round pick BEFORE all of this went down. He's done nothing to warrant maintaining his value at a second round pick.

Karlton
04-09-2011, 05:38 PM
Now he has more time to get his *** fingered at least.

Hey, he's learned his lesson. That's what happens when you stiff a hooker (and then don't pay her :rimshot:).

Justin Tyme
04-09-2011, 05:50 PM
It's a shame that there probably won't be a summer league. It would give TPTB (and possibly a new coaching staff) the opportunity to evaluate him after a couple months away from each other. Of course, maybe it's for the best. He could go out and have two good games and they might sign him to another extension.

As it stands, I would be looking to dump him. If anyone calls about him this summer, let them have him. Any chance to add him to a larger trade, take it.

It doesn't matter that he's the 15th man. As was shown in Houston, if he's in the locker room, he can cause trouble. As long as he's employed by the Pacers, he's a possible Club Rio waiting to happen. Just because we made the playoffs it doesn't mean our PR issues have magically disappeared.


Couldn't agree more, but unfortunately we seem to have a different opinion than many others do. It makes me wonder if they had millions invested would they be willing to give Stephenson more rope to hang himself and loose millions of their money from PR problems over a 2nd pick who has really shown nothing but immaturity. I don't think so. It's a totally different situation when it's their money and not someone else money to play with.

Lord Helmet
04-09-2011, 05:51 PM
By the way, Lance Stephenson makes me really uncomfortable with Bird and Morway moving forward. Not only did they draft this kid, not only did they keep him after he ****ed up the first time, but they actually tried to TRADE INTO THE FIRST ROUND to pick this idiot.

That's a red flag on the front office.
Bird's dumbass was apparently going to keep O'Brien for the rest of the year, too.....

Seriously, can we please get rid of this bum? Ron Artest had talent too, it is a only a matter of time before he does something that really ****s us over.

GET RID OF HIM. (Been saying this since the Summer or whenever his first incidents occurred) Don't let him even come to the games anymore, I'm serious. I don't want our franchise to fall back down into the whole again because of this idiot that Bird/Morway love.

Gold
04-09-2011, 05:56 PM
It sounds like the problems he's having are "badmouthing teammates, on or off the record". So if he's talking back and/or being rude to other Pacers, that's a chemistry issue, and going into our first Playoff appearance in four years, we need our chemistry at its highest. If players aren't getting along in any way, shape, or form, it depletes how well they gel with each other.

I don't know if the rest of your post is kind of an aside comment on what you think of the possible issue is or you think I don't agree with him being demoted.

If it's the latter, then that's not what I'm saying. I meant I'm not on board with the "trade him! get rid of him this offseason!" Kind of talk. If the Pacers are going to deal with him like this, then we can still wait and see if he matures any because I can't see it being necessary to immediately get rid of him when he's not going to be playing anyway when the team can just wait and see how he grows as a person. How much of a problem can he really be when he's not even playing?

TMJ31
04-09-2011, 06:07 PM
It's like watching a car crash happen in slow motion while you desperately try to yell out "STOP!!!" to no avail.

This guy is just NOT the sharpest tool in the shed. Seems he also has negative habits and a bad attitude to boot.

Such a shame, he has such high potential...

Trophy
04-09-2011, 06:07 PM
Yeah goodbye.

We don't need this crap on our team.

PacersHomer
04-09-2011, 06:33 PM
Waste of talent, waste of a roster space, and a waste of time. Goodbye Lance, don't let the door hit ya where the prostitute put her finger.

kester99
04-09-2011, 06:39 PM
.
.
.
Behavior problem or not, this line-up change for the playoffs needed to happen. I'd much rather have TJ as a backup than Lance.
.
.
.

El Pacero
04-09-2011, 06:39 PM
A buddy of mine said he couldn't believe how stupid Lance was acting last night. He was even tapping coaches on the opposite shoulder during critical timeouts. I guess he's been acing crazy for the past several games.

Scot Pollard
04-09-2011, 06:49 PM
I don't mean to sound rude, but I can't understand a damn word he says.

I understand everyone on this team crystal clear but in interviews I had to turn up my volume to hear Lance.

These days in the NBA, no team wants immature crap on their roster.

Scot Pollard
04-09-2011, 06:52 PM
A buddy of mine said he couldn't believe how stupid Lance was acting last night. He was even tapping coaches on the opposite shoulder during critical timeouts. I guess he's been acing crazy for the past several games.

Oh yeah bro I was at the game with a couple of friends and my friend pointed out someone in a suit on the Pacers bench can't sit still.

I looked over and I was like oh God.

I saw this coming. Lance has no future here.

Bird pretty much had it when he was arrested and this pretty much tops it off.

He'll be cut in the offseason.

Brad8888
04-09-2011, 06:52 PM
Well, at least the Pacers can use some of their increased revenue stream from the Playoffs to pay for a buyout of Stephenson and allow us to regain a roster spot for whenever the next season happens. Thanks to our Pacers fans who are paying the exhorbitant prices being charged for the playoffs, plus some Bulls fans who make the trip down, and the extra TV money for making up the difference on this for Herb!

If it looks like a knucklehead and quacks like a knucklehead, it's definitely not a duck...

Lance Stephenson,

Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, :wave:

You are the weakest link, :wave:

In the immortal words of one of the most famous celebrities in the recent history of NY to the self professed best basketball player to ever come from NY:

"Yer Fiyed!" :wave:

Scot Pollard
04-09-2011, 06:54 PM
Now he has more time to get his *** fingered at least.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

redfoster
04-09-2011, 06:56 PM
Damn. So disappointing. Bye bye Lance.

Kuq_e_Zi91
04-09-2011, 07:08 PM
A buddy of mine said he couldn't believe how stupid Lance was acting last night. He was even tapping coaches on the opposite shoulder during critical timeouts. I guess he's been acing crazy for the past several games.

Those saying he acts 15 instead of 20 are being generous.

He's still working his way through the anal stage of Freud's psychosexual development.

redfoster
04-09-2011, 07:11 PM
Look at it this way: we are getting really good at paying troubled point guards who never play for us.

Wait, that doesn't really help.

Miller-Time
04-09-2011, 07:14 PM
SO WHAT?? Are serious? So what if he causes the Pacers another PR nightmare in the future when this team is now in the playoffs and getting fans interested again? Ownership has lost MILLIONS and lost thousands of fans coming to games b/c of PR nightmares. What was once a proud franchise was humbled to it's knees by players who were constantly in the news having caused PR problems. This team is now generating interest again and enthusiasm. WHY risk it for Stephenson?

Your view is "so what" Stephenson is just a 2nd round pick. His actions can't be detrimental or hurt the Pacers. You need to step back and reconsider. Stephenson has as much potential to cause a MAJOR PR NIGHTMARE as some feel he has of being a good player. You might be able to feel Stephenson can't hurt the Pacers, but Herb Simon can ill afford another PR nightmare from a player who has already shown the propensity to create NUMEROUS issues and problems. Put yourself in Herb's position!

+1
Get this idiot out as fast as possible - try to get a 2nd rounder, if not cut him.

Brad8888
04-09-2011, 07:19 PM
Look at it this way: we are getting really good at paying troubled point guards who never play for us.

Wait, that doesn't really help.

Maybe his behavior reminded them so much of Tinsley that they decided to try to turn him into a point guard...

Pacerized
04-09-2011, 07:29 PM
no 4 yr deal only 2 yrs guarteed (2 yrs 2 many for a 2nd rd pick)



This years in the bank now so he only has 1 more year at $810k. If he knows we aren't picking up the non guaranteed years we could most likely buy him out for 700k or so. He's just a risk that didn't work out but not a big risk. Most second rounders don't make it anyway so it's no big deal to me.

nyballer31
04-09-2011, 07:33 PM
I don't know but another offseason with Lance scares the crap out of me.I have no faith in this guy to stay out of trouble.

Anthem
04-09-2011, 07:37 PM
I have said from the get go it was Bird who drafted Williams and White.
Wasn't you, it was Bird.

Shade
04-09-2011, 08:07 PM
I'm not even slightly surprised.

This is already the second time I've reiterated this season that Lance will be a continual headache for us. He's not worth the trouble.

Tom White
04-09-2011, 08:10 PM
We don't know the full story. He obviously deserves the punishment, but doesn't mean his career is done as a Pacer. He could grow up this summer, a good off season to grow up and consider his situation might change a lot of things.

So no, I wouldn't cut him.

Yep, and the sun might rise in the west, too!

I don't understand why some folks still support the guy. In my opinion, it isn't just a case of youth or immaturity, it is a clear case of a totally bad egg. The only thing you can do with a bad egg, is to toss it out - far enough away that the rotting smell is gone.

speakout4
04-09-2011, 08:26 PM
Oh yeah bro I was at the game with a couple of friends and my friend pointed out someone in a suit on the Pacers bench can't sit still.

Could be ADD which is treatable.

PacerGuy
04-09-2011, 08:29 PM
Does every elite talent we daft have to an IQ 20 pt. short of a tree?

I listen to a respected guy like M.Boyel rave on this kids skills & talent, then I read this & my head hurts, stomach aches & heart weeps.
I hate this for the Pacers, & I hate when D.Dakich is right....

Tom White
04-09-2011, 08:31 PM
This seems to me like an excuse to bring TJ back, Wells is been saying all year that Lance is immature, now the Pacers are finding this out? I don't believe that.



You have to be kidding me. An excuse? Really? An excuse?

First, why in the world would they need an excuse? One like this to boot?

Second, have you really not been paying attention to the sad saga that is Stephenson?

Swish
04-09-2011, 08:33 PM
Those thinking that cutting Lance would remove a possible stigma being attached to the team for any potential PR screw up by Lance in the offseason don't understand how the media works.

If something happened, he would just be reported as former Pacer Lance Stephenson. And that former doesn't matter to the idiots out there who still think that we have a team full of thugs.

Meantime, there's no need to cut the kid now. ESPECIALLY because nobody here knows what he is in trouble for. Like someone said, get him some guidance in the offseason with the express notion that he will be gone on the next offense and see what happens. If he's a knucklehead, toss him, or if he can be slipped into any deal, do it.

BringJackBack
04-09-2011, 08:34 PM
I'll tell you guys what... I've defended Lance a lot but,

Lance really is that stupid. I know a dude my age who is just dumb like that. Really, really stupid. Doesn't really even have the potential to be intelligent at all. I just figured out that this dude, my friend, cut off his house arrest bracelets and tried to run away. One day later he gets caught and now he's going to boy school for the rest of his high school life.. After he's out of jail. He's the only one playing around all the time when everyone else is serious. Never takes anyone serious when they tell him to knock his **** off and quit being so me oriented. But no. He's the best thing since sliced bread and he's too oblivious to everything to understand that he's in really deep crap.

Everyone is done babysitting him now. He doesn't have anyone watching out for him anymore. He won't learn from his mistakes. He's got all of us worrying about his *** and we all collectively just said, "Screw it, it's not worth it. He'll never learn. He doesn't want to and he doesn't care."

Lance just has terrible, terrible judgment. Just won't learn from his mistakes. Bird and Morway need to do what we did and say, "Forget it," and get rid of him.

Foul on Smits
04-09-2011, 08:37 PM
Its not like he pushed his girlfriend down the stairs or anything

dal9
04-09-2011, 08:39 PM
He was even tapping coaches on the opposite shoulder during critical timeouts.

well the immature side of me says that is kind of funny (the same side that gets a kick out of the fact that our biggest fan is a women wrestler), but then again that is the kind of silly ***** youve got to cut out early, as a coach on any level above like JV. For all we know, he could have been suspended for that (ie the tapping); which is nothing to get freaked out about, but is still (arguably) suspension-worthy

idioteque
04-09-2011, 08:40 PM
Holding on to this guy, who has proven to have nothing more than a ceiling around the level of Jerryd Bayless right now makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Sure, we could hold on to him and trade him for some cash and a second round pick, but cash and a second round pick is not worth the risk if he gets into real trouble as an employee of the Pacers in the next few months.

Sookie
04-09-2011, 08:40 PM
Could be ADD which is treatable.

A lot of athletes have ADD/ADHD (sometimes I wonder if DC does, actually)

But even if he had it, it may not be what the problem is.

Honestly..Girlfriend incident, Prostitute incident, Locker room issues, and now this.

That's 4 off the court problems vs 6 games played.

BlueNGold
04-09-2011, 09:06 PM
The only thing dumber than not cutting him right now was drafting him in the first place. I shredded the stupid choice when it happened and the continued drama should have been expected by everyone.

Oh, who cares. This is the same franchise that acquired David Harrison, Shawne Williams, Stephen Jackson, James White, Rawle Marshall, Jamaal Tinsley and Ron Artest. We shouldn't be surprised when they draft a guy like Lance Stephenson who every other team passed on due to a multitude of red flags.

The fact is, he is a talented basketball player but it will never matter. Never! Stephon Marbury is more talented and look what that guy did to the Knicks...and Stephon wasn't even close to being this questionable. Lance is not even going to be an all star level talent. His game as a PG is flawed and he's not going to be an impressive 2 guard. His off court game is perhaps the worst in the NBA.

Imagine this. Let's say he plays well for one season and his stock rises. Would you want the Pacers to fork out a 5 year 7 or 8 million a year contract? Of course, based on their actions the Pacer brass haven't really learned much from the past decade...so I would not be surprised if we have another Tinsley situation with Lance. ...and that's best-case.

KingGeorge
04-09-2011, 09:14 PM
It is time to cut this guy loose.

More of a troublemaker than a playmaker. :(

HC
04-09-2011, 09:24 PM
**** this dude.. Enough is enough. What an idiot.

I went to the Pacers VIP thing during the preseason. There was a Q&A with Chris and Quinn, and I stood up and asked if Lance was showing signs of improvement and if he was doing what he needed to do in order to contribute to this team. Quinn took the question and basically tried to make me feel bad for asking such a question. I hope he feels a little silly now.

rock747
04-09-2011, 09:29 PM
I have thought that they shuold look to include him in a trade for a while now. Just doesn't seem to have a lot going on upstairs...

BringJackBack
04-09-2011, 09:29 PM
I think Lance has negative trade value x5.. That's probably why he won't be traded.

rock747
04-09-2011, 09:32 PM
Also: TJ Ford is a way better option for the playoffs. Veteran presence. The Pacers just got deaper.

BlueNGold
04-09-2011, 09:42 PM
I went to the Pacers VIP thing during the preseason. There was a Q&A with Chris and Quinn, and I stood up and asked if Lance was showing signs of improvement and if he was doing what he needed to do in order to contribute to this team. Quinn took the question and basically tried to make me feel bad for asking such a question. I hope he feels a little silly now.

While I understand they were trying to help the kid out, the Pacers need to get out of the rehabilitation business and build a winning basketball team. They also need to show respect for an opinion that was right at the time, right a year before that and right today.

My greatest concern is that this franchise doesn't seem to take this issue seriously. This small market team is attempting to crawl out of the gutter and it doesn't need this right now. Lance has never been worth the cost and that cost is rising. Imagine what happens when he has free time over the summer. Comes back next fall and disrupts the team. Cut him yesterday!

Eleazar
04-09-2011, 09:44 PM
I hate how people just react and don't think logically. I can understand want him gone, but I don't understand wanting to cut him immediately without any attempt to trade him first. I don't care if you think no one would want him, and it doesn't matter if no one wants him. I would rather try to trade him for anything before just cutting him because you never know who may be interested in him until you go out and look.

I understand the average person doesn't take a step back and look at things logically before they speak, but come on seriously people stop overreacting to every little thing. Calm down a little and stop being so **** damn emotional.

Justin Tyme
04-09-2011, 09:58 PM
Wasn't you, it was Bird.


Where have you been with this revelation when I have said it was Bird for the last 3 years?

Do you have a link for future reference?

rock747
04-09-2011, 09:59 PM
bkravitz Robert Kravitz
Athletes rarely badmouth teammates, on or off the record. Not the case with Lance Stephenson -- kid's poison. Guaranteed deal, too. Dumb.
9 minutes ago

MikeWellsNBA Mike Wells
This is the 3rd time in 8 months Stephenson is making negative news. He was the focal point behind the lockerroom blow up n Houston
28 minutes ago

Now we sort of have an idea what it is.

This makes me wonder if the 6 game losing streak had something to do with Lance getting put into the rotation... since both correlated each other.

BlueNGold
04-09-2011, 10:02 PM
I hate how people just react and don't think logically. I can understand want him gone, but I don't understand wanting to cut him immediately without any attempt to trade him first. I don't care if you think no one would want him, and it doesn't matter if no one wants him. I would rather try to trade him for anything before just cutting him because you never know who may be interested in him until you go out and look.

I understand the average person doesn't take a step back and look at things logically before they speak, but come on seriously people stop overreacting to every little thing. Calm down a little and stop being so **** damn emotional.

If I thought he had any trade value, I would agree with you. You do recall that the rest of the league passed on him and he fell to the second round for a reason. Now he's had a string of off court incidents and disrupted the team leading to a string of losses. Do you honestly think anyone wants his giant load of baggage that grows by the month? What is he worth? Solomon Jones is worth more. He's spent more time in trouble than on the court as a rookie. Imagine if he starts feeling his oats and decides to act up this coming year.

Justin Tyme
04-09-2011, 10:03 PM
Those thinking that cutting Lance would remove a possible stigma being attached to the team for any potential PR screw up by Lance in the offseason don't understand how the media works.

If something happened, he would just be reported as former Pacer Lance Stephenson. And that former doesn't matter to the idiots out there who still think that we have a team full of thugs.

Meantime, there's no need to cut the kid now. ESPECIALLY because nobody here knows what he is in trouble for. Like someone said, get him some guidance in the offseason with the express notion that he will be gone on the next offense and see what happens. If he's a knucklehead, toss him, or if he can be slipped into any deal, do it.


I'd far rather it be former than present Pacer!!!!!!!!!!

No doubt so would Herb Simon.

Oliver
04-09-2011, 10:07 PM
A buddy of mine said he couldn't believe how stupid Lance was acting last night. He was even tapping coaches on the opposite shoulder during critical timeouts. I guess he's been acing crazy for the past several games.

God that makes me kind of sad. I don't want to send out any negativity to Lance, but it sounds like he might have some mental health issues.. Well he is only 20, but come on man. I spent several years working with people with various mental illnesses, now I work with people with developmental disabilities. After having fairly high hopes I don't want Lance on the team anymore, but I do hope his problem is a maturity thing and not a brain chemistry thing.

This sort of thing makes me respect TJ Ford even more. I remember before we had him he was almost considered a star in this league. Then he fell pretty far, but he never pulled the typical selfish whiny stuff like we saw with JO or any number of other players. He has always had a pretty good attitude even during the bad times. TJ is a heck of a good dude, just not that good of an NBA level PG.

BlueNGold
04-09-2011, 10:07 PM
This makes me wonder if the 6 game losing streak had something to do with Lance getting put into the rotation... since both correlated each other.

Uh, I think that's becoming painfully obvious. As Kravitz described him, poison may be a good description. People spoke more highly of Ron Artest during his worst years. At least with Ron, there was a good hearted person under the immaturity.

gummy
04-09-2011, 10:19 PM
Ugh.

Interestingly enough, I read the Kravitz comment as saying Lance's teammates dislike him enough that they are willing to talk off the record about how bad he is. Seems like we've heard a couple of things from unnamed players talking about how monumentally dumb Lance is.

Pretty much doesn't matter which way you interpret that particular comment though. The kid is clearly Trouble, capitalization intentional. I'm all for sending him home so that he is not a distraction for the team. I doubt he has much trade value, so I'd support cutting him in the offseason too.

Justin Tyme
04-09-2011, 10:20 PM
I understand the average person doesn't take a step back and look at things logically before they speak, but come on seriously people stop overreacting to every little thing. Calm down a little and stop being so **** damn emotional.


Hum, the Pacers should just keep him and try to trade him. Meanwhile, he creates another PR nightmare. Yep, that's what the FO should do alright!

Kegboy
04-09-2011, 10:24 PM
I hate how people just react and don't think logically. I can understand want him gone, but I don't understand wanting to cut him immediately without any attempt to trade him first. I don't care if you think no one would want him, and it doesn't matter if no one wants him. I would rather try to trade him for anything before just cutting him because you never know who may be interested in him until you go out and look.

I understand the average person doesn't take a step back and look at things logically before they speak, but come on seriously people stop overreacting to every little thing. Calm down a little and stop being so **** damn emotional.

The concern is, if we can't trade him during the draft, we'll have to wait until the new CBA is signed. That could be next year, easy. In the mean time, he's a ticking time bomb out there. The Pacers won't be able to supervise him, won't be able to have any contact with him at all, actually, and will have no recourse if he pulls something.

BlueNGold
04-09-2011, 10:36 PM
The concern is, if we can't trade him during the draft, we'll have to wait until the new CBA is signed. That could be next year, easy. In the mean time, he's a ticking time bomb out there. The Pacers won't be able to supervise him, won't be able to have any contact with him at all, actually, and will have no recourse if he pulls something.

Agreed. Why attempt to trade him at all? How much value does he have? Who here believes we could get anything of value back for a rookie who has only proven that he can get into trouble? What kind of negotiating position are the Pacers going to be in when teams know Lance was basically cut out of the lineup down the stretch? This is a bad story that is highly likely to get worse...and one that the Pacers should simply bow out of.

tflo
04-09-2011, 10:37 PM
Lance is a very, very, young player. To me it looks like he needs someone to guide him in the right direction.The Pacers are a very young team and trying to improve.The last thing they need is someone they have to babysit. I don't think Lance would benifit playing with the Pacers. For his best interest, I think he would be better off if he was traded to another team.

BlueNGold
04-09-2011, 11:13 PM
Just for the fun of it, can anyone name another NBA player who has had more issues starting their career?

Here are the issues I know about:

1) January 2008 - Suspended from high school team due to altercation with team mate.
2) July 2008 - Cut from the US national team for chemistry issues.
3) October 2008 - Arrested and faced sexual assault charge for groping a 17 year old inside the school.
4) August 2010 - Arrested and faced felony assault charge for pushing girlfriend down flight of stairs.
5) Earlier this year - on youtube video with prostitutes performing odd sex acts.
6) Disrupted Pacers team which went into a tail spin. Apparently benched for that action.
7) Violated team rules and placed on inactive list at perfect time to get minutes and show his worth.

tflo
04-09-2011, 11:36 PM
Just for the fun of it, can anyone name another NBA player who has had more issues starting their career?

Here are the issues I know about:

1) January 2008 - Suspended from high school team due to altercation with team mate.
2) July 2008 - Cut from the US national team for chemistry issues.
3) October 2008 - Arrested and faced sexual assault charge for groping a 17 year old inside the school.
4) August 2010 - Arrested and faced felony assault charge for pushing girlfriend down flight of stairs.
5) Earlier this year - on youtube video with prostitutes performing odd sex acts.
6) Disrupted Pacers team which went into a tail spin. Apparently benched for that action.
7) Violated team rules and placed on inactive list at perfect time to get minutes and show his worth.
with a record like that what in the hell were the Pacers thinking?

Lord Helmet
04-09-2011, 11:46 PM
http://http://rootzoo.com/article_photo_uploads/nickydiamonds_6777_3668.jpgCome on, let's just give the bad apple another chance guys.....or a third, fourth, fifth....

http://rootzoo.com/article_photo_uploads/nickydiamonds_6777_3668.jpg

BlueNGold
04-09-2011, 11:53 PM
with a record like that what in the hell were the Pacers thinking?

They investigated him thoroughly...;)

Honestly, I think their line of thinking was this: Lance has a lot of potential and we will keep him on a short leash. We have Clark Kellogg who will babysit and counsel him at every turn. He's not going to be signed for much money so we will be able to cut our losses. Also, we have a team full of milk drinkers to balance things out anyway. Finally, they probably figure they've invested a lot of their time and money dealing with troubled players and thought they might just roll the dice with Lance to recoup some return on invesment. The idea being that they think the experience they have has some kind of intrinsic value. On that point, they would be wrong. Common sense is all they really needed...not an "investigator"....

BlueNGold
04-09-2011, 11:55 PM
http://http://rootzoo.com/article_photo_uploads/nickydiamonds_6777_3668.jpgCome on, let's just give the bad apple another chance guys.....or a third, fourth, fifth....

http://rootzoo.com/article_photo_uploads/nickydiamonds_6777_3668.jpg


Yes, it can't possibly get any worse...right?

If the Pacers don't cut him before his next incident, they will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they learned nothing from the brawl.

IndySDExport
04-09-2011, 11:56 PM
Just reading this thread goes to show how little room the Pacers have for error in character.

I've read several posters argue that drafting Lance was a Low Risk/High Reward proposition. Just cut him if it doesn't work out, won't cost you much... I would argue that the Pacers don't have this type of freedom.

If the digest is blowing up due to this kids nonsense, and we are probably the biggest of die hard Pacer fans, how does this look to the rest of Indiana and the more distant fan base that has already been weary of this team?

We don't have the privilege to bargain on potential over character. We just made the playoffs for the 1st time since 2006 and less than a week later we have this knucklehead to hear about, instead of the playoffs. When we made the D.C. trade and everyone was up, not a week went by before the girlfriend incident occurred and that became the headline for the team.

If they could trade him for something, so be it, but I'd be perfectly fine with us just cutting the dude and calling it a day. But enough of this Low Risk/High Reward stuff. The risk is more than just financial.

Lord Helmet
04-10-2011, 12:05 AM
We're just now starting to get some love locally, but that won't continue if we keep Artest jr. on the team.

(I'm comparing the dude to friggin' Ron Artest and he's done nothing even close to what's good ol' Ron did, that goes to show you how much freedom we have right there.)

smj887
04-10-2011, 12:28 AM
If the digest is blowing up due to this kids nonsense, and we are probably the biggest of die hard Pacer fans, how does this look to the rest of Indiana and the more distant fan base that has already been weary of this team?

I doubt the more distant fans will even hear or care that the 3rd string point guard who's played 115 minutes isn't going to play for the remaining 2 games of the season due to unspecified immaturity issues. Same deal for his thing with the prostitute that everyone seemed to believe would harm the franchise, yet there's been no real fallout.

The thing is, everyone here is so dedicated to the team that the digest blows up over everything. In the same way that the people here get more joy out of the highs than the average fan, they also end up sulking a lot more over the lows. So stating that the rest of Indiana must be a lot more up in arms over the pine-riding second round pick's immaturity than the die-hard fans is a bit off base, I think.

All of that said, I've been a Lance supporter since day one, but he needs to grow up fast or the team is going to need to start looking at other options. I don't like the idea of cutting him. I think you keep him and see if he grows up, knowing his impact on the team is minimal. That, or you see if a trip up to Fort Wayne is what he needs to break his ego. No way the guy is delusional enough to not get it together when he's clocking 2 minutes a night for the Mad Ants, right?

Eleazar
04-10-2011, 12:31 AM
Apparently you guys haven't been paying attention for the past 5 years. People don't care about players that they don't know or see. A couple years ago there was a Colts player accused of rape, and no one other than the more die hard of fans made a big deal about it. (he wasn't some third string never see the field guy either, and was not cut) Mean while McAfee goes out and gets drunk and suddenly everyone cares.

Lance Stephenson gets accused of pushing his pregnant girlfriend down the stairs, and no one cares except for the most die hard Pacer fans.

See a pattern here, the only time people care is when it is someone like Granger or Dunleavy, not when it is no name DT or no name 3rd string PG.

The only reason people are not going to Pacer games right now is because the team has had a losing record over the last 5 years, not because of a stigma about the players on the team. While many people left because it the reason they have stayed away is because the Pacers haven't given them a reason to come back.

Lord Helmet
04-10-2011, 12:38 AM
Apparently you guys haven't been paying attention for the past 5 years. People don't care about players that they don't know or see. A couple years ago there was a Colts player accused of rape, and no one other than the more die hard of fans made a big deal about it. (he wasn't some third string never see the field guy either, and was not cut) Mean while McAfee goes out and gets drunk and suddenly everyone cares.

Lance Stephenson gets accused of pushing his pregnant girlfriend down the stairs, and no one cares except for the most die hard Pacer fans.

See a pattern here, the only time people care is when it is someone like Granger or Dunleavy, not when it is no name DT or no name 3rd string PG.

The only reason people are not going to Pacer games right now is because the team has had a losing record over the last 5 years, not because of a stigma about the players on the team. While many people left because it the reason they have stayed away is because the Pacers haven't given them a reason to come back.
I think you are correct, being pathetic the last 5 years combined with character issues lead to the city not giving a damn about the team.

Winning really does cure all, but for the Pacers' sake anyone with questionable character needs to be looked at under a microscope. Why? One word. Brawl.

IndySDExport
04-10-2011, 12:39 AM
The thing is, everyone here is so dedicated to the team that the digest blows up over everything. In the same way that the people here get more joy out of the highs than the average fan, they also end up sulking a lot more over the lows. So stating that the rest of Indiana must be a lot more up in arms over the pine-riding second round pick's immaturity than the die-hard fans is a bit off base, I think.



I will agree that we exaggerate, blow things out of proportion and in general mope and complain more than needed. There has been a lot of ridiculousness on this board the past few years.

But, I'm not saying the rest of Indiana will be up in arms, they already don't care. And if we want fans to come back to the fieldhouse, bringing in people like lance is not going to help. I think Indiana fans care about wins and character, and I would argue more care about character first. Sure, they may not read it on the front page, but even hearing about this stuff in passing reinforces the negative opinions that people already have about this team. So, I don't think I'm really blowing it out of proportion. In terms of character, this team does not have a lot of leeway to play with.

IndySDExport
04-10-2011, 12:45 AM
Apparently you guys haven't been paying attention for the past 5 years. People don't care about players that they don't know or see. A couple years ago there was a Colts player accused of rape, and no one other than the more die hard of fans made a big deal about it. (he wasn't some third string never see the field guy either, and was not cut) Mean while McAfee goes out and gets drunk and suddenly everyone cares.

Lance Stephenson gets accused of pushing his pregnant girlfriend down the stairs, and no one cares except for the most die hard Pacer fans.

Yes, wins do a long way.

But 1 bad apple out of 15 is a lot easier to focus on than 1 out of 60. And when your team already has a reputation from previous incidents, it just reinforces preexisting negative opinions. We want to win fans back. We're not the Colts who have been the golden children for the last 10 years.

IndySDExport
04-10-2011, 12:47 AM
. The only reason people are not going to Pacer games right now is because the team has had a losing record over the last 5 years, not because of a stigma about the players on the team. While many people left because it the reason they have stayed away is because the Pacers haven't given them a reason to come back.

Also,

I don't think this is true. Winning is probably not the only reason.

pacer4ever
04-10-2011, 12:53 AM
Apparently you guys haven't been paying attention for the past 5 years. People don't care about players that they don't know or see. A couple years ago there was a Colts player accused of rape, and no one other than the more die hard of fans made a big deal about it. (he wasn't some third string never see the field guy either, and was not cut) Mean while McAfee goes out and gets drunk and suddenly everyone cares.

Lance Stephenson gets accused of pushing his pregnant girlfriend down the stairs, and no one cares except for the most die hard Pacer fans.

See a pattern here, the only time people care is when it is someone like Granger or Dunleavy, not when it is no name DT or no name 3rd string PG.

The only reason people are not going to Pacer games right now is because the team has had a losing record over the last 5 years, not because of a stigma about the players on the team. While many people left because it the reason they have stayed away is because the Pacers haven't given them a reason to come back.

This s so true when we had the so called "thugs" here we had a chance at a title and had good attendnce. Then we had to **** up the franchise with Murphleavy. Like the 84 year old pacer fan who sits in front of me says it is about how they play on the court not off the court that matters winning really does cure all .

beast23
04-10-2011, 01:23 AM
Lance screws up once again. Badmouthing teammates, on or off the record. Sounds like he's b/tching about his own teammates to third parties and got caught to me.

Cut him or keep him, we will owe him 810K next season. No one would want to trade for him; he has no value. But guess what, no way would I trade him.

If I were Bird, I'd make a deal with him. First off, if I were Bird, I'd tell him that I absolutely will not trade him; I own his arse. If I want to burn you, you will sit in a hotel room all season long. And, if you badmouth anyone having anything to do with the Pacer franchise, I will invite you to practice, where upon I will turn the rest of the team loose on you in the locker room.

If you somehow keep your mouth shut and your head on straight, maybe, just maybe, around Christmas, because I will be feeling generous, I may give you one more chance. Since you are on zero tolerance, if you screw that up, I will pay you back using your own method of badmouthing you to every GM in existence, and if you are very lucky, you may be allowed to sell popcorn in some arena... but you will probably never play another minute in an NBA uniform.

imbtyler
04-10-2011, 01:43 AM
HEY GUYS, don't forget this tiny, itsy-bitsy little caveat we should keep in mind while ironically badmouthing a nearly irrelevant (at the moment) player:

http://i55.tinypic.com/p589z.jpg

Forget this fooooool. We've got more important things to worry about right now. Lance will get his in due time. Let's focus on these Playoffs and ***** about Stephenson when (a) more details arise, and/or (b) he gets into another altercation.

:gopacers:

IndySDExport
04-10-2011, 01:45 AM
HEY GUYS, don't forget this tiny, itsy-bitsy little caveat we should keep in mind while ironically badmouthing a nearly irrelevant (at the moment) player:

http://i55.tinypic.com/p589z.jpg

Forget this fooooool. We've got more important things to worry about right now. Lance will get his in due time. Let's focus on these Playoffs and ***** about Stephenson when (a) more details arise, and/or (b) he gets into another altercation.

:gopacers:

You are correct sir. Go Pacers!!!!

Hicks
04-10-2011, 01:51 AM
Why are some of you saying Lance bad mouthed his teammates? The way I was reading it, they were/are badmouthing him, which is what is so damning.

PaceBalls
04-10-2011, 02:11 AM
What?! a teenager mouthed off and said some dumb stuff?!
:onozomg:

Is anyone really surprised? This stuff is to be expected and I don't think it's a big deal. Well see how he is next year. It's not like the club has millions invested.

PaceBalls
04-10-2011, 02:18 AM
Why are some of you saying Lance bad mouthed his teammates? The way I was reading it, they were/are badmouthing him, which is what is so damning.

I thought Kravitz said he was. :shrug:

At least it's not drugs or guns.

CableKC
04-10-2011, 02:24 AM
Eric Bledsoe just got suspended for 1 game as well for violating team policy. Does anyone have any specifics as to why he was suspended?

Before we condemn the guy for committing some capital crime against the Pacers, do we even know what we are condemning him for?

gummy
04-10-2011, 03:14 AM
Why are some of you saying Lance bad mouthed his teammates? The way I was reading it, they were/are badmouthing him, which is what is so damning.

That is the way I read what Kravitz said too, but apparently that is not the dominant interpretation.

Speed
04-10-2011, 07:58 AM
What did Lance do, exactly?

D-BONE
04-10-2011, 08:42 AM
Hey, if they want to string him out a bit longer it's fine by me as long as he's on a tight leash in terms of professionalism or lack thereof. He's inexperienced and young so there could still be a lot of development on and off the floor.

On the other hand, personally I really can't say I've seen anything that has me salivating...even over the dreaded P word. I can see that he's got a lot of playground flash and he's strong. Beyond that, Lance does not exactly inspire confidence that he can translate those characteristics to a successful, long-term NBA context.

So, fine, give him next year to see what improvements can be made. My honest expectations are not that high. But no problem giving him a chance unless he's done something really egregious that we aren't yet aware of.

Major Cold
04-10-2011, 08:52 AM
Shawne Williams had to do more to get traded. But I am guessing that Bird has told Lance that he is on thin ice. And that is what he should be.

How about we don't sign, trade, or draft any more Cincinnati players Bird?

kellogg
04-10-2011, 09:32 AM
Eric Bledsoe just got suspended for 1 game as well for violating team policy. Does anyone have any specifics as to why he was suspended?

Before we condemn the guy for committing some capital crime against the Pacers, do we even know what we are condemning him for?

Absolutely right. Personally I think Mike Wells is a troll. He can't put together an intelligible sentence and doesn't use spell check. Aside from his "Run Danny Run, See Danny Run" analysis, he's a pot stirrer to boot.

Look, Lance is immature, cocky, and an idiot, but at this point we have no idea what the issue was...all we know is that it wasn't legal.

...And it didn't have anything to do with LeBron's mom.

Major Cold
04-10-2011, 10:04 AM
Absolutely right. Personally I think Mike Wells is a troll. He can't put together an intelligible sentence and doesn't use spell check. Aside from his "Run Danny Run, See Danny Run" analysis, he's a pot stirrer to boot.

Look, Lance is immature, cocky, and an idiot, but at this point we have no idea what the issue was...all we know is that it wasn't legal.

...And it didn't have anything to do with LeBron's mom.


I think if anything what Mike has written is vague. He is reporting, not stirring. You may have issues with something else he has done, but this is not one of them.

Our reaction is not his fault. I may not like Lance's attitude. But ultimately there is an issue, otherwise he would not be expelled from the team. Mike Wells did not conjucture up this suspension. It is not on Bird or Vogel with Lance's attitude.

Lance is responsible for Lance's words and deeds. And there are consequences to poor behavior.

Hicks
04-10-2011, 10:43 AM
What?! a teenager mouthed off and said some dumb stuff?!
:onozomg:

Is anyone really surprised? This stuff is to be expected and I don't think it's a big deal. Well see how he is next year. It's not like the club has millions invested.

First of all, he's 20 years old.

Secondly, notice that Paul George (also 20) acts nothing like him. Age is just a weak excuse for this.

And sure, you might say he's acting like a teenager...

A 13 year old.

Hicks
04-10-2011, 10:49 AM
Maybe I just missed it back at the time, but I think Mike elaborated a little bit on the Houston game blow up in today's article.

He said that during the game, Lance said things that both Danny and Dahntay took exception to, and that in fact Jones had to be restrained from going after Lance.

I find it incredulous and laughable that anyone has (or, sadly will still continue to) tried to interpret that night to be in any way a pro-Lance moment. Remember some people fantasizing that the locker room blowup afterwards could have been Lance being a leader? Hilarious.

Peck
04-10-2011, 12:20 PM
Maybe I just missed it back at the time, but I think Mike elaborated a little bit on the Houston game blow up in today's article.

He said that during the game, Lance said things that both Danny and Dahntay took exception to, and that in fact Jones had to be restrained from going after Lance.

I find it incredulous and laughable that anyone has (or, sadly will still continue to) tried to interpret that night to be in any way a pro-Lance moment. Remember some people fantasizing that the locker room blowup afterwards could have been Lance being a leader? Hilarious.

Not that I disagree with you but to this day you still have a legion of Jarret Jack fans who support him trying to attack T.J. Ford during a timeout & calling that leadership.

Belive me as a person who was sitting less than 20 feet away watching every min. of it & reporting on here live as it was happening I can tell you that Jack was anything but a leader.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not suprised that people thought that about Lance.

BlueNGold
04-10-2011, 12:43 PM
I wasn't part of the Jarrett Jack legion, but the more PG's we spin through the better that guy has looked.

In any event, Jarrett Jack doesn't have Lance's resume'. One incident during a timeout doesn't amount to much when you consider the fact the franchise backed Jarrett Jack and seemed to respect him. That cannot be said for Lance Stephenson...

BringJackBack
04-10-2011, 12:49 PM
Darren Collison is better than Jarrett Jack.

CableKC
04-10-2011, 12:52 PM
Absolutely right. Personally I think Mike Wells is a troll. He can't put together an intelligible sentence and doesn't use spell check. Aside from his "Run Danny Run, See Danny Run" analysis, he's a pot stirrer to boot.

Look, Lance is immature, cocky, and an idiot, but at this point we have no idea what the issue was...all we know is that it wasn't legal.

...And it didn't have anything to do with LeBron's mom.
i don't think that Wells is a troll....he's just reporting what he sees and is fed via PSE....I'm just saying that "violating Team policy" could mean a lot of things.

He clearly did something wrong...and I'm not defending him.....we just have no idea about what's going on.

Given the huge Lance Bandwagon that existed before this came out....if "violating Team policy" turns out to be something "not acceptable to the Team but is considered minor"....then I can see many people changing their proverbial tune when it comes to Lance.

vnzla81
04-10-2011, 01:01 PM
I wasn't part of the Jarrett Jack legion, but the more PG's we spin through the better that guy has looked.

In any event, Jarrett Jack doesn't have Lance's resume'. One incident during a timeout doesn't amount to much when you consider the fact the franchise backed Jarrett Jack and seemed to respect him. That cannot be said for Lance Stephenson...

I wonder were this picture came from then?

http://cwatch-gwinnett-mugshots.s3.amazonaws.com/2011300226.jpg

vnzla81
04-10-2011, 01:06 PM
Maybe I just missed it back at the time, but I think Mike elaborated a little bit on the Houston game blow up in today's article.

He said that during the game, Lance said things that both Danny and Dahntay took exception to, and that in fact Jones had to be restrained from going after Lance.

I find it incredulous and laughable that anyone has (or, sadly will still continue to) tried to interpret that night to be in any way a pro-Lance moment. Remember some people fantasizing that the locker room blowup afterwards could have been Lance being a leader? Hilarious.

Not even Wells know what happened that day in the locker room, he could have been a leader or an a$$ for all I know, but the true is that nobody but the guys involved know exactly what was the problem.

PacersHomer
04-10-2011, 01:07 PM
Hell, at least Jamaal, Jackson, and Artest were sane enough to help this team before killing it and pissing on the ashes. Stephenson is just a no reward, all risk kind of guy. It's like Tinsley and Artest moved to Harlem and raised an adopted offspring of two gangbangers. Stephenson is the definition of trash. Time to throw him away.

And you are not a kid when you are getting paid 7 figures. You're supposed to grow up throughout high school and college, but he was too busy being told he was the greatest player ever and have his parents and school ignore obvious signs of thuggery. I hope he can get help and have a successful career somewhere else, but get him the hell away from this organization. He's a time-bomb.

Lord Helmet
04-10-2011, 01:15 PM
**** Lance.

Get rid of him, now.

Lord Helmet
04-10-2011, 01:21 PM
I'm pissed we're paying this toolbag.

Heisenberg
04-10-2011, 01:55 PM
Wonder how tempted TJ was to tell Larry (or whoever it was) to just screw off and stay in Houston. Can't really say I'd blame him.

KingGeorge
04-10-2011, 02:02 PM
Why are we still talking about this idiot?

We should be looking at the positives right now, like the playoffs!

dal9
04-10-2011, 02:15 PM
**** Lance.

Get rid of him, now.

this is the kind of insightful, in-depth analysis that is hard to find on most message boards!

BlueNGold
04-10-2011, 03:08 PM
I wonder were this picture came from then?

http://cwatch-gwinnett-mugshots.s3.amazonaws.com/2011300226.jpg

Ok, you got me. Interestingly, he was arrested for DUI in Atlanta. I seriously wonder what percentage of the NBA has a mug shot.

With that said, DUI is not viewed as bad as what Lance has been up to. Also, this has more to do with attitude and how Lance apparently treats others...men and especially women. IOW, Jarrett Jack is normal. Lance is not.

Trader Joe
04-10-2011, 03:13 PM
There's a lot of people on this board who equate yelling at teammate's on the court with leadership. That's why there was this mysterious Jarret Jack=Leader mass following around this board. If anything what we've really found out is that the true professional out of the Jack/Ford PG combo was TJ.

Gamble1
04-10-2011, 03:55 PM
I might be in the minority but I say we keep him over the summer and see if he keeps his nose clean.

Then I would put him down in the D-league next season and see if he can learn a lesson. If not then give him the boot.

PR07
04-10-2011, 04:02 PM
It'll be interesting to see just how many times we'll be okay with getting burned by Lance.

pacer4ever
04-10-2011, 04:06 PM
Wonder how tempted TJ was to tell Larry (or whoever it was) to just screw off and stay in Houston. Can't really say I'd blame him.

He hasnt been in HUS he is at every pratice and sits on the bench during home games. They never sent him home like reported he just didnt travel on road trips.

cdash
04-10-2011, 04:09 PM
There's a lot of people on this board who equate yelling at teammate's on the court with leadership. That's why there was this mysterious Jarret Jack=Leader mass following around this board. If anything what we've really found out is that the true professional out of the Jack/Ford PG combo was TJ.

I liked Jack, but never understood (and still don't) why so many people love the guy.

sportfireman
04-10-2011, 04:10 PM
Ok, you got me. Interestingly, he was arrested for DUI in Atlanta. I seriously wonder what percentage of the NBA has a mug shot.

With that said, DUI is not viewed as bad as what Lance has been up to. Also, this has more to do with attitude and how Lance apparently treats others...men and especially women. IOW, Jarrett Jack is normal. Lance is not.

I'm sorry but to me someone driving drunk and endangering other people's lives is a lot worse than the stupid things Lance has done.

Trophy
04-10-2011, 04:26 PM
What sucks is if we waive him in the offseason (which we're probably going to do), it'll be like owing another Jamaal Tinsley money.

Thank God it's only 700k I think.

BlueNGold
04-10-2011, 04:46 PM
I'm sorry but to me someone driving drunk and endangering other people's lives is a lot worse than the stupid things Lance has done.

I know many people feel that way, but most people in their early 20's do dumb things and are negligent. The really bad young people do things with intent to do harm. That's the difference. People who get a DUI have no intent to do harm. Is it still worse even if it's purely negligence? It's definitely not worse than what Lance has been alleged to do. I suppose if we go on what the two guys have been convicted of in court, I would have to agree with you. But court has no jurisdiction over common sense and public opinion. If the franchise based everything on what people have been convicted of in court, it would be in serious trouble. It's bad enough they decided to draft him when other teams were too wise to do so. Now they will probably have to wipe the egg off their face and drop another million (i.e. 800+ thousand) down the drain.

Hicks
04-10-2011, 04:48 PM
Not that I disagree with you but to this day you still have a legion of Jarret Jack fans who support him trying to attack T.J. Ford during a timeout & calling that leadership.

Woah. How on earth do you equate those two incidents??

Because unless you believe Jack was acting like a loudmouthed spoiled brat, I don't agree with that.

Hicks
04-10-2011, 04:50 PM
Not even Wells know what happened that day in the locker room, he could have been a leader or an a$$ for all I know, but the true is that nobody but the guys involved know exactly what was the problem.

You're assuming no one that was in the room at the time later talked about it to anyone, on or off the record? I find that hard to believe.

Hicks
04-10-2011, 04:52 PM
this is the kind of insightful, in-depth analysis that is hard to find on most message boards!

Yeah, it's not like message boards also serve as a place to vent your emotions or anything.....

BlueNGold
04-10-2011, 04:54 PM
I don't think Lance is smart or articulate enough to be a leader. If he were, he would have been a leader already...instead of a guy cut from the US under 18 team for chemistry issues.

My best guess? He defines "bad apple".

Hicks
04-10-2011, 04:56 PM
There's a lot of people on this board who equate yelling at teammate's on the court with leadership. That's why there was this mysterious Jarret Jack=Leader mass following around this board. If anything what we've really found out is that the true professional out of the Jack/Ford PG combo was TJ.

Jack being hot headed and TJ being cool does not mean TJ was right. In fact, after that happened, I believe Jack became the starter.

Not that I consider that to be the sign of a leader, either.

I thought he was considered a leader while he was here by the players, but I don't recall where I got the impression from. I know it wasn't because he yelled at TJ, though at the time I think I was happy that he did.

Hicks
04-10-2011, 04:58 PM
I liked Jack, but never understood (and still don't) why so many people love the guy.

Personally, I loved him because he brought a degree of confidence/cockiness/swagger (in a good way) that seemed to resonate with his teammates, and he usually seemed to bust his *** while he was on the floor, the latter a trait I appreciate now in Tyler.

Jon Theodore
04-10-2011, 05:01 PM
Lance Stephenson has no interest playing in Indiana. It's pretty obvious, this type of guy would rather play for a more "glamorous team" like NY.

I see him being more intelligent (street smart if you will) than we all give him credit for. He just may be manipulating his way off this team, maybe a lot of his behavior is more childish than it is "thuggery." The kind of behavior that makes you "feel sorry" for someone, not necessarily want to punish them.

I'm done with him as a Pacer, we may have seen the last of him already.

vnzla81
04-10-2011, 05:13 PM
You're assuming no one that was in the room at the time later talked about it to anyone, on or off the record? I find that hard to believe.

Everybody here is assuming a lot of things, according to Wells he was trying to hear what was happening by putting his ear on the door and he assumed once again that Lance was the one talking, now he is telling us that Lance got demoted not suspended, reason why I don't think that whatever he did is such a big deal as many here think.

Hicks
04-10-2011, 05:16 PM
What do you mean he assumed Lance was the one talking. Not only might he recognize the voices, but he likely talked with the players afterwards to get what went on.

pacer4ever
04-10-2011, 05:25 PM
Lance Stephenson has no interest playing in Indiana. It's pretty obvious, this type of guy would rather play for a more "glamorous team" like NY.

I see him being more intelligent (street smart if you will) than we all give him credit for. He just may be manipulating his way off this team, maybe a lot of his behavior is more childish than it is "thuggery." The kind of behavior that makes you "feel sorry" for someone, not necessarily want to punish them.

I'm done with him as a Pacer, we may have seen the last of him already.

LOL This isnt the case a 2nd rd pick doesnt have that kind of authority to pick and chose where he wants to play he dosnt want out of indy. He just wants to play he wouldnt get mintues for a glam team the guy would need to prove himself before doing that i mean he isnt Carmello or Lebron.

Sookie
04-10-2011, 05:26 PM
Everybody here is assuming a lot of things, according to Wells he was trying to hear what was happening by putting his ear on the door and he assumed once again that Lance was the one talking, now he is telling us that Lance got demoted not suspended, reason why I don't think that whatever he did is such a big deal as many here think.

I think it almost had to be a pretty big deal.

He got demoted. Meaning, that in the remaining two games that mean nothing...a perfect time to get Lance some experience..we aren't going to play him because of something he did.

Not one game. Not "he won't play in the playoffs" But he won't play for the rest of the year period. And I'll repeat..at the perfect time to play him. If the Pacers didn't think he was mature enough to handle the playoffs, then they just say "We want to have Ford on the bench because he's more prepared than Stephenson."

Lord Helmet
04-10-2011, 05:32 PM
this is the kind of insightful, in-depth analysis that is hard to find on most message boards!
Actually, I already posted my analysis of the Lance situation, that post was just me being pissed Lance is still on the squad. Try looking at my earlier posts in the thread before you hang me out to dry. :laugh:

vnzla81
04-10-2011, 05:33 PM
What do you mean he assumed Lance was the one talking. Not only might he recognize the voices, but he likely talked with the players afterwards to get what went on.

He maybe knows more about the issue today, but in his interview on the radio he couldn't tell for sure who was or were the guys screaming and arguing, he also said in the same interview that Lance is immature and acts like a kid, reason why I assume that they either got tired of this, wanted to teach him a leason and at the same time they used this as an excuse to bring TJ back for the Playoffs.(Lance was not going to play anyway)

pacer4ever
04-10-2011, 05:40 PM
Personally, I loved him because he brought a degree of confidence/cockiness/swagger (in a good way) that seemed to resonate with his teammates, and he usually seemed to bust his *** while he was on the floor, the latter a trait I appreciate now in Tyler.

Thats why I love watching Drose play one of his best traits confidece/ cockiness

vnzla81
04-10-2011, 05:46 PM
I think it almost had to be a pretty big deal.

He got demoted. Meaning, that in the remaining two games that mean nothing...a perfect time to get Lance some experience..we aren't going to play him because of something he did.

Not one game. Not "he won't play in the playoffs" But he won't play for the rest of the year period. And I'll repeat..at the perfect time to play him. If the Pacers didn't think he was mature enough to handle the playoffs, then they just say "We want to have Ford on the bench because he's more prepared than Stephenson."

I think that if it was such a big deal instead of getting demoted he should have got suspended, is he really learning a leason by not playing the last two games of the season? he wasn't going to play much anyway.

Drewtone
04-10-2011, 05:47 PM
The silver lining of this situation is that, for the first time in a long time, we have the luxury of putting a player-knucklehead issue on the back burner until (at least) next summer, because we frankly have other things to occupy our time...

As an initial Lance hopeful (maybe still so), this thought alone has provided me a good deal of pleasant apathy over whatever Lance chooses to do.

graphic-er
04-10-2011, 06:26 PM
At some level I think the coach has some responsibility in this. Bird has always said that he wants to see what Lance can do, and Vogel put him the line up for a few games in the middle of a huge losing streak. But then he essentially bench lance again. Several games where Lance received no minutes in garbage time over the last couple months.

You have to dangle a carrot for some of the younger more immature players in the league. To help keep their focus on basketball. Lance is one of those guys in my opinion. Its the job of the coach to manage personalities. Also it does not seem like Lance has any other player on this team that has taken him under his wing. Dahntay Jones?

But this should service as a great reminder to not give guaranteed money to 20 year olds. Bird screwed up this one up.

xBulletproof
04-10-2011, 06:57 PM
At some level I think the coach has some responsibility in this. Bird has always said that he wants to see what Lance can do, and Vogel put him the line up for a few games in the middle of a huge losing streak.

Might want to look things up, they're obviously different from how you remember. We had a losing streak of 1 whole game before Lance started playing, but we had won 8 of our last 12.

Lance playing was when the streak was started, not before.

Sookie
04-10-2011, 07:00 PM
At some level I think the coach has some responsibility in this. Bird has always said that he wants to see what Lance can do, and Vogel put him the line up for a few games in the middle of a huge losing streak. But then he essentially bench lance again. Several games where Lance received no minutes in garbage time over the last couple months.

You have to dangle a carrot for some of the younger more immature players in the league. To help keep their focus on basketball. Lance is one of those guys in my opinion. Its the job of the coach to manage personalities. Also it does not seem like Lance has any other player on this team that has taken him under his wing. Dahntay Jones?

But this should service as a great reminder to not give guaranteed money to 20 year olds. Bird screwed up this one up.

Lance didn't get inserted into the lineup in the middle of the huge losing streak. He got inserted into the lineup at the start of the huge losing streak. Guess when the losing stopped?

Dahntay used to be around him quite often. At the New Jersey game, AJ was really the only one that talked to him, that I saw. I can't really tell, past that. I thought Dahntay was supposed to be his "mentor" but quite frankly, I think he's had it.

But at what point do people hold Lance accountable for Lance's actions? Not Vogel, Not Larry, not his family, not his girlfriend, not his lack of "big brother." He's not 8, he's 20. And I think accountability is part of his problem.

sportfireman
04-10-2011, 07:28 PM
I know many people feel that way, but most people in their early 20's do dumb things and are negligent. The really bad young people do things with intent to do harm. That's the difference. People who get a DUI have no intent to do harm. Is it still worse even if it's purely negligence? It's definitely not worse than what Lance has been alleged to do. I suppose if we go on what the two guys have been convicted of in court, I would have to agree with you. But court has no jurisdiction over common sense and public opinion. If the franchise based everything on what people have been convicted of in court, it would be in serious trouble. It's bad enough they decided to draft him when other teams were too wise to do so. Now they will probably have to wipe the egg off their face and drop another million (i.e. 800+ thousand) down the drain.
Well I'm a 14 yr fireman and I've seen first hand what drunk driving can do to a life or lives, and it's a lot worse than the dumb things Lance has done.

PacerGuy
04-10-2011, 07:48 PM
Anyone else notice the Lance issues happen just about the time the Knicks show up on the schedule? Seriously, he has missed every game he could have been available.
Just say'n...

PR07
04-10-2011, 07:53 PM
On my score sheet, I have Lance doing more harm for the franchise than good during his short tenure with us. Why some of you still adamantly defend him has me completely bewildered.

DaveP63
04-10-2011, 08:14 PM
Eff him...

dal9
04-10-2011, 08:27 PM
Well I'm a 14 yr fireman and I've seen first hand what drunk driving can do to a life or lives, and it's a lot worse than the dumb things Lance has done.

lol i read "14 year old fireman" and i was sitting there trying to figure that out for a good while...

Justin Tyme
04-10-2011, 08:32 PM
But this should service as a great reminder to not give guaranteed money to 20 year olds. Bird screwed up this one up.


Bird did the samething 4 years previous to James White. Apparently, Bird doesn't learn from his mistakes.

DrFife
04-10-2011, 08:41 PM
Bird did the samething 4 years previous to James White. Apparently, Bird doesn't learn from his mistakes.

White was approaching 24 when he was drafted.

QuickRelease
04-10-2011, 08:53 PM
Well, I guess that solidifies Jimmer Fredette in a Pacers uni next year.:happydanc

Sookie
04-10-2011, 08:55 PM
Well, I guess that solidifies Jimmer Fredette in a Pacers uni next year.:happydanc

Utah picks before the Pacers.
Twice.

QuickRelease
04-10-2011, 09:01 PM
I don't see how anyone can call Lance Stephenson a cancer to our locker room. He is a second round rookie, the youngest player on the team and he's like the 12th/13th man on the bench. If he was anything more than that I would consider him a cancer. Its not like we depend on him for anything but his potential. Its not like we drafted Demarcus Cousins. Is Lance's Photo even in the media guide? The Kid is a Project and if anything good comes out of him then Bird will look like a Genius. He has 1 more year to get his act together if he doesnt, cut ties and he will forever be used as a fail reference.You don't have to be a significant oncourt figure to be a significant problem off of it. The domestic violence thing was significant; not to mention his difficulties with teammates. Even with Clark working with him, his head is still not screwed on straight. It's the JR Rider story. Sigh, it is such a drag to have these types of threads yet again. :(

BlueNGold
04-10-2011, 11:09 PM
Well I'm a 14 yr fireman and I've seen first hand what drunk driving can do to a life or lives, and it's a lot worse than the dumb things Lance has done.

I disagree. Your first hand experience is accurate and I understand people are emotional about it, but your conclusions are false. Millions of people drive drunk every year. In one single year, there are probably hundreds of millions of instances where people are driving drunk on our roads. If women across the country were pushed down stairs that many times (and their heads pounded into the last step) every year imagine how many funerals and quadriplegics you would see. There is no comparison. What Lance was alleged to have done was far more dangerous to a person's life than another drunk driver.

At the same time, I'm not defending the drunk driver. I've never had a DUI and I think anyone who drives drunk is a fool. However, I disagree that pushing a girl down stairs is not as serious as getting behind the wheel after a six pack. Again, he wasn't convicted. Again, that's a court of law and this isn't one.

xBulletproof
04-10-2011, 11:14 PM
I think part of the distinction BlueNGold is trying to make is that a drunk drivers goal is to get home without harming themselves or anyone. Anyone pushing someone down stairs obviously intends on harming someone.

Ignoring the end result whether it was the best or worst case of either scenario, one involves malicious intent. The other, just a dumb decision.

BlueNGold
04-10-2011, 11:20 PM
I think part of the distinction BlueNGold is trying to make is that a drunk drivers goal is to get home without harming themselves or anyone. Anyone pushing someone down stairs obviously intends on harming someone.

Ignoring the end result whether it was the best or worst case of either scenario, one involves malicious intent. The other, just a dumb decision.

That's about half of it.

The other half amounts to odds. I would prefer to ride as a passenger in a vehicle driven by a person with a .15 BAC before I would want to be pushed down stairs by a world class athlete and have my head pounded into the last step. Particularly if I was 120 lb female.

Again, not saying Lance did any of that. OJ didn't do anything either...;)

Scot Pollard
04-10-2011, 11:32 PM
They should really keep Stephenson on a leash.

Sookie
04-10-2011, 11:35 PM
I disagree. Your first hand experience is accurate and I understand people are emotional about it, but your conclusions are false. Millions of people drive drunk every year. In one single year, there are probably hundreds of millions of instances where people are driving drunk on our roads. If women across the country were pushed down stairs that many times (and their heads pounded into the last step) every year imagine how many funerals and quadriplegics you would see. There is no comparison. What Lance was alleged to have done was far more dangerous to a person's life than another drunk driver.

At the same time, I'm not defending the drunk driver. I've never had a DUI and I think anyone who drives drunk is a fool. However, I disagree that pushing a girl down stairs is not as serious as getting behind the wheel after a six pack. Again, he wasn't convicted. Again, that's a court of law and this isn't one.

I would hope that no one is saying that a DUI is worse than Domestic abuse.

What I think people are saying is that legally, Lance hasn't technically done what he was accused of doing. (Lets not get into it..) and that his bouts of immaturity aren't worse than a DUI.

Which I agree with, being a cocky immature idiot isn't worse than a DUI.

sportfireman
04-10-2011, 11:46 PM
I disagree. Your first hand experience is accurate and I understand people are emotional about it, but your conclusions are false. Millions of people drive drunk every year. In one single year, there are probably hundreds of millions of instances where people are driving drunk on our roads. If women across the country were pushed down stairs that many times (and their heads pounded into the last step) every year imagine how many funerals and quadriplegics you would see. There is no comparison. What Lance was alleged to have done was far more dangerous to a person's life than another drunk driver.

At the same time, I'm not defending the drunk driver. I've never had a DUI and I think anyone who drives drunk is a fool. However, I disagree that pushing a girl down stairs is not as serious as getting behind the wheel after a six pack. Again, he wasn't convicted. Again, that's a court of law and this isn't one.

Alleged of doing is not the same as convicted of doing. Big difference. Yes Lance's could have done is dangerous, extremely dangerous, but being convicted is our legal system saying you did do something. Not accused of doing something. I mean really a person can be accused of anything.

Gamble1
04-11-2011, 07:58 AM
They should really keep Stephenson on a leash.
In the NBADL.

Justin Tyme
04-11-2011, 09:58 AM
White was approaching 24 when he was drafted.


What has that got to do with not learning from one's mistakes? The mistake was giving a guaranteed contract to a 2nd round pick to begin with and then doing it again. How many failed times does Bird have to do it b4 he understands?

BRushWithDeath
04-11-2011, 10:01 AM
I've made comments about Lance that have been seen as disparaging or overly critical since he was drafted.

I'm done commenting on him for awhile.

He does a fine job of arguing my point for me.

WhatCouldHaveBeen
04-11-2011, 11:07 AM
are they going to do what they did to tinsley and make him stay away from the team?

Hicks
04-11-2011, 11:26 AM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110411/SPORTS04/104110315/1062/SPORTS04/Pacers-lose-Knicks-Stephenson-earns-place-bench




Stephenson, who didn't say what caused his demotion, knows he only has himself to blame and must grow out of his label as an offensively talented but immature person.

"I'm not perfect," Stephenson said. "Once the mistakes happen, I have to learn from them. I have to work hard and show everybody I'm learning and getting back on the floor."

The Pacers feel Stephenson's on-the-court talent will overshadow his immaturity down the road. That's why they took a risk in giving him a two-year guaranteed contract with a team option the third and fourth years.

But Stephenson, who would only be a sophomore in college, has been testing the patience of many in the organization with his standoffish attitude. He has had run-ins with several teammates.

"It's a negative light and I'll learn from it," Stephenson said. "I'm not going to let anybody bring me down. I'm going to work hard regardless."

The Pacers didn't allow Stephenson to work out for a period of time at the fieldhouse and had him get counseling after he was accused of pushing his girlfriend down some stairs in New York last summer. The case was dismissed.

Stephenson's latest mishap was extreme enough for the Pacers to move Ford in front him. The Pacers tried to trade Ford and then buy out the remaining part of his $8.5 million contract in February. Ford hasn't traveled with the team for more than a month.

"We want to hold guys accountable," Vogel said of Stephenson. "We have a standard of professionalism here that whether you're a rookie or a veteran player that you carry yourself like a true pro, like a winner, and contribute to positive chemistry on this basketball team. That's what we're asking of all of our guys."

Stephenson will make $810,000 next season, but the Pacers could release him and swallow his contract.

"I tried to tell him to just take advantage of the opportunity presented to you, because every year there are 60 new guys coming in ready to take your spot, and you don't want to be on the outside looking in," center Roy Hibbert said.

So:

1) The Pacers STILL think he's worth all of this. Bird's (and Morway's) stock drops again with me.

2) He has a 'standoffish attitude.'

3) He's had run-ins with 'several teammates.'

4) I think it's significant that Frank Vogel cites 'contributing to positive chemistry on the team' as part of his comments on Lance.

Trader Joe
04-11-2011, 11:30 AM
I've heard enough about his on the court talent. If he actually had any on the court talent, he would actually be on the court.

Dahntay Jones has had this kid pegged right from day 1.

"I'm the best high school player ever from New York."

"Not as a second round pick you aren't"

People are too caught up in what Lance was or what Lance was supposed to be, they completely ignore what Lance IS.

I think Lance is a punk who if I had to guess talks mad **** about how good he is. Well sorry buddy, I don't buy it. Odds say you suck balls and that it isn't going to change. Dude can barely sniff the court and we still have to hear about his "talent". Giving me a ****ing break, let's stop making excuses for a guy who hasn't done anything. The fact he ended up at Cincinatti at college should tell you something.

Trader Joe
04-11-2011, 11:37 AM
Jack being hot headed and TJ being cool does not mean TJ was right. In fact, after that happened, I believe Jack became the starter.

Not that I consider that to be the sign of a leader, either.

I thought he was considered a leader while he was here by the players, but I don't recall where I got the impression from. I know it wasn't because he yelled at TJ, though at the time I think I was happy that he did.

I'm just saying that up until this year Jarret Jack was 4th on the games played without reaching the playoffs list (Behind Murphy, Dunleavy, and Chris Wilcox). Yet he was considered a leader. What were we basing this off? What had he ever lead anyone to?

Trader Joe
04-11-2011, 11:39 AM
Thats why I love watching Drose play one of his best traits confidece/ cockiness

Rose also has another C...control. And if you aren't in control of your actions and thoughts, your confidence and cockiness are useless.

duke dynamite
04-11-2011, 11:45 AM
I've heard enough about his on the court talent. If he actually had any on the court talent, he would actually be on the court.

Dahntay Jones has had this kid pegged right from day 1.

"I'm the best high school player ever from New York."

"Not as a second round pick you aren't"

People are too caught up in what Lance was or what Lance was supposed to be, they completely ignore what Lance IS.

I think Lance is a punk who if I had to guess talks mad **** about how good he is. Well sorry buddy, I don't buy it. Odds say you suck balls and that it isn't going to change. Dude can barely sniff the court and we still have to hear about his "talent". Giving me a ****ing break, let's stop making excuses for a guy who hasn't done anything. The fact he ended up at Cincinatti at college should tell you something.
I'm glad somebody finally said it.

Lou Bega
04-11-2011, 11:52 AM
Lance is going to be fine. I hope he learns from this and moves on. It is a bad situation for the organization b/c they had just clinched the playoffs and now this happens. He does have a "new york" attitude, but hasn't done much in the league. Swagger/Cockiness are commonplace in pro sports so I have no problem with Lance. He just needs to produce.

Lance is every reason "old school" consertative types hate the NBA. Lance is able to act unproffesional, but since he has a world class talent and a guarnteed contract he will get paid regardless. If he worked at UPS he would be in the unemployment line.

Hicks
04-11-2011, 11:58 AM
I'm just saying that up until this year Jarret Jack was 4th on the games played without reaching the playoffs list (Behind Murphy, Dunleavy, and Chris Wilcox). Yet he was considered a leader. What were we basing this off? What had he ever lead anyone to?

Illogical to equate leadership with winning %. It's simply another positive attribute. You have to have a lot of positive attributes, as a player and as a team, to win.

Hicks
04-11-2011, 12:02 PM
I :rolleyes: at people assuming that he's not playing because he's incapable of playing. This is blatantly about other issues he has.

Anyone with eyes can see why Boyle, Bird, et al have said he's very talented, but it doesn't matter because this isn't about what his basketball skills are, or how raw he is, or what his skill-related weaknesses are, etc. It's not about that.

90'sNBARocked
04-11-2011, 12:06 PM
Nobody here knows exactly what he has done, yet all are willing to comment

If Lance truly was the reason behind the blowup in Houston

Then good, the team got closer because of it and has played better ball

One thing that really I dont understand is the need to publish that Stephenson had an internal issue

Why do we continue to air our dirty laundry?
What happened to keeping things in house?

Considering the way they did TJ Ford, and how they consistently call out their own players in the media is fukin retarted

Bird/Morway are ruining a once proud orginization, that used to treat our players with respect, and kept them form public whippings

I miss the 90's Pacers

Hicks
04-11-2011, 12:07 PM
:laugh: So now Lance gets the credit for giving the other 14 players a common enemy to rally against? SERIOUSLY? Wow.

joeyd
04-11-2011, 12:16 PM
As I've mentioned before, the Pacers had supposedly stepped up their psych evaluations of players they bring in before the draft to avoid signing another Tinsley or Artest. However, it looks as though Lucy Van Pelt is conducting these evaluations, rigorous as they are, as evidenced by Lance's latest escapades. The doctor is in!

Trader Joe
04-11-2011, 12:37 PM
Let's just make him the starting point guard since most of us either

A.) Buy into the fact that he is extremely talented.

or

B.) Don't want to hold him accountable for his actions.

Trader Joe
04-11-2011, 12:38 PM
Nobody here knows exactly what he has done, yet all are willing to comment

If Lance truly was the reason behind the blowup in Houston

Then good, the team got closer because of it and has played better ball





:laugh:

Speed
04-11-2011, 12:45 PM
I'd be for cutting him the day the season is over, honestly. Does anyone think he can make it through an offseason without an incident? I'd put it at 90% probable he does something ranging from embarrassingly stupid to criminal.

I also wouldn't be surprised if he eventually makes it in the league and is pretty good, someday. It just won't be here and it won't be for a long while.

Really 800k and a 2nd round pick isn't worth all the drain on the franchise he's going to cause, it just isn't worth it.

If they cut him and he turns out to be an allstar in 5 years, I wouldn't look back and feel bad about the Pacers doing the right thing. Some would, I'm sure, I wouldn't.

This franchise doesn't need Lance Stephenson, nearly as much as he thinks they do.

He'll likely need to learn the hard way, if at all. Cut him.

TinManJoshua
04-11-2011, 12:51 PM
If Lance truly was the reason behind the blowup in Houston

Then good, the team got closer because of it and has played better ball

The team just went back to playing the kind of ball they were playing before he was given minutes. Not really a "well good" kind of thing.

He was jammed into the rotation, all of a sudden something's broken. He's removed, back to the "Vogel Honeymoon".

90'sNBARocked
04-11-2011, 12:53 PM
:laugh: So now Lance gets the credit for giving the other 14 players a common enemy to rally against? SERIOUSLY? Wow.

Its not credit , but a fact

If he was the instagator, then since the incident the team, has gotten closer which it has, thats a good thing

Im not giving him "credit" for doing that, just that it was helpfull in bringing the team together

90'sNBARocked
04-11-2011, 12:55 PM
:laugh:

laugh all you want

then look in the fukin mirror

trader joe apparently is "sin free"

90'sNBARocked
04-11-2011, 01:00 PM
everybody wants to cut him and no one knows what his "violations" were

great ole conservative Indiana.

Home of a bunch of country boys that are polite and couldnt win an NBA title if it was handed over to them

Im n ot for keeping a team full of troubble makers but I will say this

say what you want about it but I was much happier when we were a contending team with some "thugs" then the school booy losers we are currently

Sookie
04-11-2011, 01:00 PM
I'd be for cutting him the day the season is over, honestly. Does anyone think he can make it through an offseason without an incident? I'd put it at 90% probable he does something ranging from embarrassingly stupid to criminal.

I also wouldn't be surprised if he eventually makes it in the league and is pretty good, someday. It just won't be here and it won't be for a long while.

Really 800k and a 2nd round pick isn't worth all the drain on the franchise he's going to cause, it just isn't worth it.

If they cut him and he turns out to be an allstar in 5 years, I wouldn't look back and feel bad about the Pacers doing the right thing. Some would, I'm sure, I wouldn't.

This franchise doesn't need Lance Stephenson, nearly as much as he thinks they do.

He'll likely need to learn the hard way, if at all. Cut him.

If they were going to cut him after the season, I'd cut him before the playoffs, might as well not even have the distraction during that time. But we aren't going to cut him.

So I hope he stays in Indiana for the summer. Funny enough, I actually think cutting him may be something that's drastic enough for him to shape up.

Edit: Here's the thing about the "thugs" that "win." They will burn you eventually, and quite often, they don't ever REALLY win. Because team chemistry and focus is important.

Hicks
04-11-2011, 01:01 PM
Let's just make him the starting point guard since most of us either

A.) Buy into the fact that he is extremely talented.

or

B.) Don't want to hold him accountable for his actions.

Give me a break, dude. I can recognize his talent without sucking his dick or ignoring his issues. Saying he has talent isn't "OMG HE IS KOBEEEEEE LETZ START HYM".

Ugh.

Hicks
04-11-2011, 01:03 PM
Its not credit , but a fact

If he was the instagator, then since the incident the team, has gotten closer which it has, thats a good thing

Im not giving him "credit" for doing that, just that it was helpfull in bringing the team together

The team was already together! You know what started breaking them apart? Lance! This isn't a volatile lockerroom outside of him.

Hicks
04-11-2011, 01:05 PM
everybody wants to cut him and no one knows what his "violations" were

great ole conservative Indiana.

Home of a bunch of country boys that are polite and couldnt win an NBA title if it was handed over to them

Im n ot for keeping a team full of troubble makers but I will say this

say what you want about it but I was much happier when we were a contending team with some "thugs" then the school booy losers we are currently

You know who would have beaten your beloved 'thug team'? The 1994 team, the 1995 team, the 1998 team, the 1999 team, and the 2000 team. Remember them? Angels? No. Thugs? Hell no.

How'd it work out with that core, anyway? Lots of trips to the ECF, and maybe even a title, I'd imagine. They were awfully young and talented. What's that? They didn't? Oh.

xBulletproof
04-11-2011, 01:06 PM
I :rolleyes: at people assuming that he's not playing because he's incapable of playing.

I've said it before his problems. I haven't seen anything to change my mind. Any talent he has is negated by the same problem he has off the court. Lack of intelligence, and yes, being stupid can impede your ability to play the game.

Everyone got all excited by his assist total, because he held the ball for 22 seconds and passed it to someone in a position where they had to shoot it. How .... talented.

vnzla81
04-11-2011, 01:07 PM
Give me a break, dude. I can recognize his talent without sucking his dick or ignoring his issues. Saying he has talent isn't "OMG HE IS KOBEEEEEE LETZ START HYM".

Ugh.

:eek:

Hicks
04-11-2011, 01:08 PM
Lastly, I love how you preach not making negative assumptions, not making judgements, but yet you have no problem pegging people like me as a 'conservative country boy' like you've got me all figured out.

Excuse me while I head back to church......

Justin Tyme
04-11-2011, 01:13 PM
I'd be for cutting him the day the season is over, honestly. Does anyone think he can make it through an offseason without an incident? I'd put it at 90% probable he does something ranging from embarrassingly stupid to criminal.

I also wouldn't be surprised if he eventually makes it in the league and is pretty good, someday. It just won't be here and it won't be for a long while.

Really 800k and a 2nd round pick isn't worth all the drain on the franchise he's going to cause, it just isn't worth it.

If they cut him and he turns out to be an allstar in 5 years, I wouldn't look back and feel bad about the Pacers doing the right thing. Some would, I'm sure, I wouldn't.

This franchise doesn't need Lance Stephenson, nearly as much as he thinks they do.

He'll likely need to learn the hard way, if at all. Cut him.


THANK YOU THANK YOU!

If fans/posters took the view that they owned the Pacers and how much Stephensons actions past, present and future cost their business/Pacers in PR and money, they would NOT be so supportive of Stephenson. As I've said many times, "it's easy to spend someone elses money when it's not your money involved."

Eleazar
04-11-2011, 01:25 PM
I still don't understand the logic behind cutting him without putting any effort into trading him. Just because a few of you don't want him on this team does not mean he has no trade value, it only means you don't want him on the team.

PR07
04-11-2011, 01:34 PM
I still don't understand the logic behind cutting him without putting any effort into trading him. Just because a few of you don't want him on this team does not mean he has no trade value, it only means you don't want him on the team.

He was already a second round pick, and that was before all of the off the court incidents. What are we going to get for him, cash? Boy oh boy...

Sookie
04-11-2011, 01:35 PM
I still don't understand the logic behind cutting him without putting any effort into trading him. Just because a few of you don't want him on this team does not mean he has no trade value, it only means you don't want him on the team.

Because other teams don't want a guy like that either.

Whether you think he's talented or not, quite frankly, he's too raw to contribute to a team. And he's a locker room problem.

So you think a team will want to take a guy that can't contribute positively for a few years, but will, with almost 100 percent certainty, contribute negatively?

There's no way. Lance may be "talented" but he is not nearly as likely to workout and contribute to a team as many less "talented" guys. NBA teams like potential, but they aren't stupid. Well, most of them.

PR07
04-11-2011, 01:40 PM
The NBA has been littered with countless players who are deemed "really talented" but never had the smarts to be NBA professionals and who are in and out of the league in a few years time. Why some of you seem to think Stephenson is above this group is beyond me. Literally, I feel like some of you are acting like we have a troubled LeBron James on our hands. I have news for you, Stephenson isn't that player. That's not to say he can't be a pretty good player, but he's not Kobe Bryant.

Eleazar
04-11-2011, 02:03 PM
He was already a second round pick, and that was before all of the off the court incidents. What are we going to get for him, cash? Boy oh boy...

Isn't cash better than nothing? That is my point if you can get something, anything for him it is better than getting absolutely nothing for him. Being payed $500K to take him off our hands is better than paying him $800K to not be on the team. If they find out no one wants him then fine cut him, but don't cut him without looking into possible trades first.

90'sNBARocked
04-11-2011, 02:18 PM
The team was already together! You know what started breaking them apart? Lance! This isn't a volatile lockerroom outside of him.

Not fair man

All the problems cant be all because of Lance

Dude needs to get jumped by DJ and DG and then he will fall back in line

:)

90'sNBARocked
04-11-2011, 02:20 PM
You know who would have beaten your beloved 'thug team'? The 1994 team, the 1995 team, the 1998 team, the 1999 team, and the 2000 team. Remember them? Angels? No. Thugs? Hell no.

How'd it work out with that core, anyway? Lots of trips to the ECF, and maybe even a title, I'd imagine. They were awfully young and talented. What's that? They didn't? Oh.

you know I LOVE the 90's Pacer teams

I just think we overreacted after the brawl by putting a preium of charchter over talent ( I know, I know)

We need some players too

90'sNBARocked
04-11-2011, 02:23 PM
Lastly, I love how you preach not making negative assumptions, not making judgements, but yet you have no problem pegging people like me as a 'conservative country boy' like you've got me all figured out.

Excuse me while I head back to church......

Is this is directed at me , please , PM me

I never called you or anyone here a country boy. I was merely indicating the presumption that a "Indiana player" is a country boy who grew up on a farm, shot baskets on a goal attached to the side of the barn. While that maybe true and those people do immulate SOME of the hoosiers, there are also Indy players from the city

Since86
04-11-2011, 02:25 PM
You're acting like high profile character players are bad players.

The goal of getting in "some players" can be acheived without compromising character.

90'sNBARocked
04-11-2011, 02:27 PM
You're acting like high profile character players are bad players.

The goal of getting in "some players" can be acheived without compromising character.

I understand, but my point is

To have a team full of players that require extra motivation is not good, but having one or two on a team is almost necessary

Since86
04-11-2011, 02:28 PM
What?

Heisenberg
04-11-2011, 02:36 PM
I'll just say Lance Stephenson in a prolonged, maybe VERY prolonged, offseason with NBA money (even if it is 2nd round money) while still affiliated with our team in any way terrifies me.

"Former Pacer Lance Stephenson..." sounds a helluva lot better than "Pacers 2nd year guard..."

Psyren
04-11-2011, 02:39 PM
I'm not really sure where these arguments or going.

Or by the sound of some of them, I'd question if they can even be considered arguments.

We went from "Don't cut Lance" to "Indiana conservatives" then "Country boys can't win a title, only city people can".

#whatisgoingonhere?