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Deadshot
04-07-2011, 08:27 PM
Do you guys think we have any viable approach to containing Rose other than putting Rush on him and hoping he lessens the damage?

There is one possible approach I would like to throw out there. Back in January, the Bobcats and Bulls played here in Charlotte, and Paul Silas had the team play a full court press on Rose for all of the 1st quarter. While this didn't continue the rest of the game, it rattled Rose enough that he ended up with a stat line of 17 points 7 assists 4 turnovers (part of his struggles came from a poor shooting night as well...5-17) and the Bobcats left the night victorious.

I haven't really seen Indiana be all that successful with the press this year, but then again, I haven't seen them use it much either. Thoughts?

1984
04-07-2011, 08:32 PM
http://stupidcelebrities.net/wp-content/old_pictures/tonya_hardingpic.jpg

Am I aloud to say that?

xIndyFan
04-07-2011, 08:32 PM
ok, here's my guess how the pacers will defend rose.

start paul george guarding him and darren collison guarding bogans or whoever. if and when paul gets into foul trouble, bring in dahntay and brandon. but keep a bigger guy on him. with some 3/4 pressure maybe.

King Tuts Tomb
04-07-2011, 09:00 PM
Make him play defense, make him shoot long twos and threes.

His spectacular plays mask the fact that he's not very efficient. I'd worry more about the Pacers offense than Derrick Rose's.

ballism
04-07-2011, 09:11 PM
Honestly, Rose hasn't even been that great the last few months. He gets a truckload of fouls every 3rd game, but the other games he's pretty inefficient.
I'm far more worried about Hibbert trying to attack Noah/Asik defense. If he has any success, we might win some games.

pacer4ever
04-07-2011, 09:14 PM
Hope he ends up on Americas most wanted. Thats about they only way I can think of.

TheDon
04-07-2011, 09:17 PM
derrick rose scored 42 points against us in the last game and had an obscene number of foul attempts and they still lost. I would let Rose get his as long as they aren't layups but be more concerned about defending the pick and pop or the pick and roll which has killed us all year.

Trophy
04-07-2011, 09:19 PM
It's pretty difficult for anyone in this league to contain him.

We were lucky to pull out that OT win even though he exploded late in that game.

Whoever is defending him has to defend better than they've ever defended before.

pacer4ever
04-07-2011, 09:29 PM
derrick rose scored 42 points against us in the last game and had an obscene number of foul attempts and they still lost. I would let Rose get his as long as they aren't layups but be more concerned about defending the pick and pop or the pick and roll which has killed us all year.

The Bulls 2nd best player was out Boozer and Noah was sick so he had to do more.

daschysta
04-07-2011, 09:35 PM
They had also won 8 in a row without boozer and were arguably playing their best ball of the year.


It was a good win.

pacer4ever
04-07-2011, 09:39 PM
They had also won 8 in a row without boozer and were arguably playing their best ball of the year.


It was a good win.

I never said it wasnt i was saying rose had to score 42 pts because there PF was out and the C was sick.

TMJ31
04-07-2011, 09:39 PM
They had also won 8 in a row without boozer and were arguably playing their best ball of the year.


It was a good win.

Exactly. We can spend all day arguing why it wasn't a true barometer of the Pacers chances against a team like Chicago...

OR we can accept the fact that we played a hell of a game against the #1 seeded team in our conference, who were playing incredible basketball and were on a huge win streak, and we defeated them despite a herculean effort from the assumed league MVP.

I choose the latter...

PR07
04-07-2011, 09:40 PM
I would throw different bodies at him. I don't think that there's anyone on our roster that can stop DRose straight up. However, I would throw a different guard to defend him every few minutes. Have George play him a few minutes, then switch to Rush, then switch to Collison. Larry Brown tried this approach with the Pistons against Shaq, and it worked fairly well. Doing this might get Rose a little out of rhythm.

As for the full court press, it seems good in theory, but I don't see this roster being that good at it.

Deadshot
04-07-2011, 09:43 PM
As for the full court press, it seems good in theory, but I don't see this roster being that good at it.

Me neither, but there is certainly plenty of time to start preparing it if by some chance they would decide to use it. I think some of the guys from the goon squad might adapt well - PG, Dhantay, McBob?

daschysta
04-07-2011, 09:43 PM
Attacking him on defense is important too. Darren is capable of a really good offensive effort if his friend is on.

Oliver
04-07-2011, 09:45 PM
derrick rose scored 42 points against us in the last game and had an obscene number of foul attempts and they still lost. I would let Rose get his as long as they aren't layups but be more concerned about defending the pick and pop or the pick and roll which has killed us all year.

Yeah whut he sed, but I would also tell Tyler that when Rose decides to drive it in all running all super fast trying to get the bucket and the foul that Tyler should put him on his a$#. I wouldn't tell a player to intentionally hurt someone, but Rose likes to run in toward the paint like he is running the football, so he can crash into someone and get the circus shot and foul. I just think if a player is prepared to play that way he needs to get put on his butt occasionally. Nothing flagrant, just a good hard one so he can't get a shot off.

Unclebuck
04-07-2011, 09:52 PM
I would like to see us change things up, but I would trap him as soon as he got across halfcourt to get the ball out of his hanbds. He really the Bulls only playmaker.
This is something teams cannot do in the regular season becauseit takes time to prepare this.

Another option that I like is to make him

SYDNEY MILLER AUSTRALIA31
04-07-2011, 10:01 PM
the only way to contain D Rose is to CUT his THORNS

imawhat
04-07-2011, 10:10 PM
The single best strategy is to get him in foul trouble. After that, it's playing physical (he's admittedly very beaten up), then trapping him.

He elevates his game in the playoffs like Reggie did. We'll have our hands full.

I wouldn't mind seeing if Dahtnay could slow him down. Dahntay is still in Chris Paul's head, as was evidenced last week.

Unclebuck
04-07-2011, 10:20 PM
We can talk about containing Rose all we want, but by far the biggest factor in series will be the Bulls great defense, that will be the biggest reason the Bulls will win

Trophy
04-07-2011, 10:24 PM
We can talk about containing Rose all we want, but by far the biggest factor in series will be the Bulls great defense, that will be the biggest reason the Bulls will win

I agree.

We did a pretty good job being efficient on the offensive end in the win.

We didn't let their defense throw us off and there weren't any lollygag passes.

This team has the capability to beat anyone at any time if their heads are on straight so hopefully they're willing to put in the extra effort throughout the series like they did in that game and it should give the Bulls a bit of a scare.

ColeTheMole
04-07-2011, 10:38 PM
Put Dunleavy on the court. Not matched up with Rose, but guarding Bogans or someone so when Rose gets past DC, Dunleavy can step in like he always does and take the charge. Rose drives in with reckless abandon and gets the majority of the calls. I would love to see him in foul trouble because of Mike taking charges.

Unclebuck
04-07-2011, 10:45 PM
They had also won 8 in a row without boozer and were arguably playing their best ball of the year.


It was a good win.


They did not play well that night, and their coach was very upset after the game at his own team, I think he said it was their worst performance after the allstar break

Hicks
04-07-2011, 10:45 PM
I don't try to contain him beyond whatever I ask my point guard to do with him. Let him get 50 if he wants. I'd rather try to keep his support in check.

Boozer is the scariest part of this to me. He's a load.

Unclebuck
04-07-2011, 10:49 PM
derrick rose scored 42 points against us in the last game and had an obscene number of foul attempts and they still lost. I would let Rose get his as long as they aren't layups but be more concerned about defending the pick and pop or the pick and roll which has killed us all year.

We won because the Bulls defense was really bad for 3 quarters. It wasn't recognizable until the 4th quarter

MyFavMartin
04-07-2011, 10:49 PM
Yes I see DC on whoever they play at the 2 and either BRush or PG on DRose throughout the game.

Unclebuck
04-07-2011, 10:55 PM
I don't try to contain him beyond whatever I ask my point guard to do with him. Let him get 50 if he wants. I'd rather try to keep his support in check.

Boozer is the scariest part of this to me. He's a load.


What if Rose gets 65 points and shoots 70% and gets a layup anytime he wants. if you play him with collison and tell the other defenders to stay home Rose will kill us. If you allow rose to get into the lane at all and bring late help the Bulls will get 20 offensive rebounds.

I would take the opposite approach and get the ball out of his hands early and make someone else make a play. Rose is there only playmaker

Deadshot
04-07-2011, 10:56 PM
What if Rose gets 65 points and shoots 70% and gets a layup anytime he wants. if you play him with collison and tell the other defenders to stay home Rose will kill us. If you allow rose to get into the lane at all and bring late help the Bulls will get 20 offensive rebounds.

I would take the opposite approach and get the ball out of his hands early and make someone else make a play. Rose is there only playmaker

This is what I saw the Bobcats doing in the game I described and I think its worth a try. The Bulls offense was really stagnant that night as a result.

ksuttonjr76
04-07-2011, 11:18 PM
Foul him when he doesn't take the 3-point shot within the first 2 seconds of receiving the ball.

IUfan4life
04-07-2011, 11:23 PM
If you want to throw different defenders at him fine. As long Darren and AJ are the primary defenders on him for the majority of the game.

On another note, Is Jeff our best bet to check boozer or is he past that point in his career?

Eleazar
04-08-2011, 12:43 AM
How about a zone defense?

CircleCity3318
04-08-2011, 03:11 AM
How about a zone defense?

zone is for cake eaters

Lou Bega
04-08-2011, 09:53 AM
Derrick Rose can be contained if we pull a Lewis Scott on him.

naptownmenace
04-08-2011, 10:08 AM
What if Rose gets 65 points and shoots 70% and gets a layup anytime he wants. if you play him with collison and tell the other defenders to stay home Rose will kill us. If you allow rose to get into the lane at all and bring late help the Bulls will get 20 offensive rebounds.

I would take the opposite approach and get the ball out of his hands early and make someone else make a play. Rose is there only playmaker

That is the Pacers only chance to defend him. You have to force Bogans, Deng, Noah, and Korver to beat you while you focus all your attention on Rose and Boozer when he's involved in the pick-and-roll. They'll need to trap Rose on every pick-and-roll which is something that Roy (the whole Pacers team in fact) is not particularly good at.

I really don't see how the Pacers can win a game against Chicago. Their defense is too good and they have the advantage of having the best player on the floor. The Pacers will need to have a game shooting from the floor like they did against Washington to have any chance to beat the Bulls.

The Pacers don't really beat teams with their defense, they win when they are efficient on offense.

Mackey_Rose
04-08-2011, 10:12 AM
zone is for cake eaters

That's a ridiculous generalization.

If a zone defense if run correctly, it can be extremely effective in the right situations. The Bulls have enough decent shooters with Korver, Deng, Rose, Bogans, and Watson that I don't think a zone would work real well for as a first option.

However, used sparingly, I do think it could be very effective. I would like to see us put out a huge lineup and play a 2-3 with Rush and Granger at the top of the zone, and Tyler, Roy, and Josh on the bottom. I have no idea if it would work the way I think it would, but in theory, it sounds effective.

No better time to test out wacky theories than in meaningless end of season games before the playoffs.

Lou Bega
04-08-2011, 10:17 AM
The kid was "Born Ready"

DC is a 2 Guard Pair them up and see what happens

Mackey_Rose
04-08-2011, 10:23 AM
The kid was "Born Ready"

DC is a 2 Guard Pair them up and see what happens

He wasn't born ready to play defense against the worst NBA players, let alone the year's very best.

Neither of those two were.

BPump33
04-08-2011, 10:29 AM
The kid was "Born Ready"

DC is a 2 Guard Pair them up and see what happens

I just threw up a little...

No offense, but Lance isn't getting playing time now and you want to start him in the playoffs. No thanks.

Marlin
04-08-2011, 10:56 AM
What if Rose gets 65 points and shoots 70% and gets a layup anytime he wants. if you play him with collison and tell the other defenders to stay home Rose will kill us. If you allow rose to get into the lane at all and bring late help the Bulls will get 20 offensive rebounds.

I would take the opposite approach and get the ball out of his hands early and make someone else make a play. Rose is there only playmaker

That's what the Warriors did in what became arguably the ugliest game of Rose's season. They trapped him just past midcourt and in every pick and roll situation, changed some rythm by using a well timed zone (that allowed the defense to rest a little bit, too), and ultimately dared the Bulls' ball movement to beat them without relying so much on Rose.

The Bulls lost 101-90, and Rose finished with 14 points on 6-15 shooting, 0-5 from distance, 10 assist but 9 turnover. And not to be underestimated, he managed to go to the line only twice.

Now that's pretty tough to replicate, but giving it a try wouldn't hurt.

Unclebuck
04-08-2011, 11:31 AM
That's what the Warriors did in what became arguably the ugliest game of Rose's season. They trapped him just past midcourt and in every pick and roll situation, changed some rythm by using a well timed zone (that allowed the defense to rest a little bit, too), and ultimately dared the Bulls' ball movement to beat them without relying so much on Rose.

The Bulls lost 101-90, and Rose finished with 14 points on 6-15 shooting, 0-5 from distance, 10 assist but 9 turnover. And not to be underestimated, he managed to go to the line only twice.

Now that's pretty tough to replicate, but giving it a try wouldn't hurt.


I didn't see that game or the Bobcats game references earlier in which the same approach was tried. If I were the pacers coach it would be one of about 4 or 5 different things I would try with the understanding that what might work in game 1 may not work in game 2 because the Bulls will make adjustments. Like for example they could have someone else bring the ball up and then throw it to Rose, or Rose could stop just befoe halfcout and throw the ball ahead.

For those asking for a zone. if the Pacers trap just past halfcourt or on all pick and rolls essentially the other three defenders will be playing zone.

As I have mentioned in other threads, we can talk about containing Rose and Boozer all we want, but the much bigger concern to me is the bulls defense

Deadshot
04-08-2011, 11:39 AM
I didn't see that game or the Bobcats game references earlier in which the same approach was tried. If I were the pacers coach it would be one of about 4 or 5 different things I would try with the understanding that what might work in game 1 may not work in game 2 because the Bulls will make adjustments. Like for example they could have someone else bring the ball up and then throw it to Rose, or Rose could stop just befoe halfcout and throw the ball ahead.

This is why I think the Pacers should go ahead and implement this in Game 1 - I think we could steal a game from them before they are prepared for it.

Lou Bega
04-08-2011, 12:50 PM
I just threw up a little...

No offense, but Lance isn't getting playing time now and you want to start him in the playoffs. No thanks.

How is playing Lance any different then Greg Kite/Zan Tabek hacking Shaq? Get him in the game and have him be physical with D Rose. Have Lance try to score the ball on offense. Make D Rose work.


I believe PG is this franchises' biggest question mark. Play Lance and see what he is capable of before they trade or draft a PG @ 15 this offseason.

BPump33
04-08-2011, 12:57 PM
How is playing Lance any different then Greg Kite/Zan Tabek hacking Shaq? Get him in the game and have him be physical with D Rose. Have Lance try to score the ball on offense. Make D Rose work.


I believe PG is this franchises' biggest question mark. Play Lance and see what he is capable of before they trade or draft a PG @ 15 this offseason.

If ALL else fails, I wouldn't mind seeing what Lance can do. I don't expect Lance to be in uniform come playoff time, though.

I expect Dahntay to be the one who gets physical with Rose. I'm a big fan of having a guy like Kite who does the dirty work. Larry is, too.

Phree Refill
04-08-2011, 01:11 PM
No better time to test out wacky theories than in meaningless end of season games before the playoffs.

I love this idea. I'd like to see Vogel use these last three games as prep games for Chicago. Implement your defensive schemes and any special offensive ploys now in order to be that much more efficient at them come next weekend. You can't replicate the intensity of games in practice so these last 3 games could be vital opportunities to perfect any new strategies for Chicago.

Lou Bega
04-08-2011, 01:13 PM
Question Marks abound for anybody on the Pacers Roster you have guard D Rose. I don't believe D Jones is quick enough to defend D Rose. D Rose has too much size/strength for DC. Brandon Rush will he show up to play? Lance is a wild card.

This is a huge offseason for the Pacers draft picks and cap room. I just would hate for them to make poor decisions and miss the playoffs for the next 6 years b/c talent wasn't evaluated properly.

Since86
04-08-2011, 01:44 PM
How is playing Lance any different then Greg Kite/Zan Tabek hacking Shaq? Get him in the game and have him be physical with D Rose. Have Lance try to score the ball on offense. Make D Rose work.

Seriously?

The Hack-a-Shaq strategy worked because you didn't let him touch the ball, as soon as they crossed half court he was fouled. It was for late game situations, not a strategy that was used for the entire game.

Lou Bega
04-08-2011, 01:57 PM
Everything we do defensively in this series to D Rose will be situational. I could see the Pacers doing everything except dressing T J Ford when it comes to containing him.

TheDon
04-08-2011, 02:26 PM
I wish I could see that game a week or so ago against the 6ers Rose had 10 turnovers to only 4 assists I think that was the highest number of his career for turnovers. I'd really like to see how they played him. I'm still with my original thought and like Hicks said worry more about Rose's help than worrying about Rose, obviously don't give him a layup everytime down the court make him pull up for shots but worry more about his help. Seriously Rose score 42 against us largely because of the amount of fouls that he got that night he was 11 - 27 from the field and 18 - 21 at the line. Rose even said in the postgame interview that he felt beat up and how he thought he should have shot more than 21 free throws. I'd be good with going with that same gameplan. Take his help away from him play him real physical and turn him into a jumpshooter.

Hicks
04-08-2011, 02:35 PM
What if Rose gets 65 points and shoots 70% and gets a layup anytime he wants. if you play him with collison and tell the other defenders to stay home Rose will kill us. If you allow rose to get into the lane at all and bring late help the Bulls will get 20 offensive rebounds.

I would take the opposite approach and get the ball out of his hands early and make someone else make a play. Rose is there only playmaker

Well, if he gets 65 on 70%, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume:

A) That would be some kind of league record, which means that's hyperbolic.

B) He wouldn't do it more than once, maybe twice.

Furthermore, I learned back when the Los Angeles Lakers had an MVP-level Shaquille O'Neal that no team is 'smart enough' to simply destroy you with the same player every single time down the floor. I know this because all you had to do to beat us in 2000 was get Shaq the ball, and obviously they didn't literally do that every time.

Why is that? Oh probably more than a few reasons, but the bottom line is, they will still try to diversify their offense to a certain extent, likely more than they really ought to given the mismatch.

I'm betting that between that idea and Rose trying to still be a distributor or otherwise get assists, he'll pass when he really probably ought not to pass (because, again, his mismatch on DC is the higher % play).

The most help I'd be willing to give is just occasional help to make them try something else, like a random hard trap, or a zone, but otherwise I'd try to do a bit of basketball 'rope a dope' and see how many times I can well-defend a play where they (for whatever reason) try to score in other ways than letting Rose torch Darren Collison.

I'm not claiming this is 'the way' or the only way to do this, but I believe it's a good strategy.

I tend to believe that the less your defense admits defeat, so to speak, with regard to a given matchup, the better, which is why I don't like the idea of trying to trap him constantly.

I think that might work for a while, but this isn't one game, this is a series, and what will likely happen is they'll just start practicing all of the appropriate countermeasures to this, which will then cause them to bury us barring an unusually chilly shooting performance.

I generally believe it's best to play straight up man to man as much as humanly possible in order to force them to make decisions on the fly instead of knowing "Okay, they're going to double me here, so my teammate(s) will be open here, and they know that, which means they know what to do next."

I'm a fan of periodic random attacks or change-ups on defense, not a kitchen-sink style that I would consider an overreaction.

Oh, and I'd also strongly consider sagging way off of Rose and making him prove just how good of a long-range shooter he really is. I'm betting he can't get it done that way 57+% of the time (4 of 7).

mattie
04-08-2011, 02:35 PM
Throwing Rose and PG on Rose all day has got to cause him at least a little problems. Rush is very physical, and Rose would have trouble getting good shots over Paul's long arms... I'm definitely on the PG/Rush vs Rose bandwagon.

BillS
04-08-2011, 02:39 PM
Why is that? Oh probably more than a few reasons, but the bottom line is, they will still try to diversify their offense to a certain extent, likely more than they really ought to given the mismatch.

No matter who the player is, you can always do something about him if you don't have to worry about anyone else.

For instance, if the Lakers tried to get the ball to Shaq every single time, we'd just surround him and deny him the ball. Leave one guy on the ballhandler to protect against an easy shot and there you go.

You have to vary your offense to keep the defense guessing. Most mismatches are not 100% perfect, they require some other work in order to be able to exploit them.

Hicks
04-08-2011, 02:45 PM
No matter who the player is, you can always do something about him if you don't have to worry about anyone else.

For instance, if the Lakers tried to get the ball to Shaq every single time, we'd just surround him and deny him the ball. Leave one guy on the ballhandler to protect against an easy shot and there you go.

You have to vary your offense to keep the defense guessing. Most mismatches are not 100% perfect, they require some other work in order to be able to exploit them.

I don't agree with this. If Shaq got doubled, he was a willing and able (very good, actually) passer. Shaq was unstoppable back then.

Sure, if you want to triple team him, you can, but you're then just giving good shooters wide open looks that they also have the psychological advantage of knowing they're coming.

Shaq and shooters, a scorer, and a garbage man PF in the triangle offense (which provides excellent spacing), where everyone knew their roles? That's game over.

The best defensive strategy I recall seeing against Shaq was by the 2004 Pistons. Larry Brown just left a single Wallace on him, let Shaq get his, and otherwise left him alone. Without the usual double teams he got, the Lakers offense wasn't as good.

Hicks
04-08-2011, 02:47 PM
By the way, I do like the idea of putting George and Rush on Rose. Especially Rush, obviously, since Paul is so raw still. As long as their 2 guard is pretty much a one-dimensional offensive player, you can get away with that fairly well.

TheDon
04-08-2011, 02:47 PM
I always feel like me and you have the same opinion on a lot of things Hicks, but you always end up saying it better than I can.

BillS
04-08-2011, 02:54 PM
I don't agree with this. If Shaq got doubled, he was a willing and able (very good, actually) passer. Shaq was unstoppable back then.

Sure, if you want to triple team him, you can, but you're then just giving good shooters wide open looks that they also have the psychological advantage of knowing they're coming.

Shaq and shooters, a scorer, and a garbage man PF in the triangle offense (which provides excellent spacing), where everyone knew their roles? That's game over.

The best defensive strategy I recall seeing against Shaq was by the 2004 Pistons. Larry Brown just left a single Wallace on him, let Shaq get his, and otherwise left him alone. Without the usual double teams he got, the Lakers offense wasn't as good.

But you actually are agreeing - you're saying part of the reason Shaq was effective was because you DID have to worry about others - if you tripled down on him they'd make you pay.

However, if Shaq and Shaq alone is tearing you up and you aren't able to compensate in other ways, then you have to disrupt that weapon and force the rest of the team to step up. Teams need to keep the rest of the offense involved so they are warm and in rhythm when/if that happens.

If Shaq and Shaq alone is completely unstoppable then leaving him alone (or single-teamed) isn't going to work. However, few players are completely unstoppable by any combination - for instance, Shaq was still weak at the FT line (even though he improved when he got out of Orlando). He also still has to GET the ball - if you focus on denying the pass IN to him, his own ability to pass out is irrelevant.

Is that going to be a winning strategy in the long run? Probably not, because someone else is bound to get hot or find another way to get the score. That's why a great player can help a team so much by taking the focus. However, in that case, it is the TEAM that is beating you, not that great player by himself.

Infinite MAN_force
04-08-2011, 03:03 PM
This is one of the situations where I think having a player like D. Jones comes in handy. If you need to slow down Rose at some point, put D. Jones in at PG and let Mcroberts play point forward. I think this would only work in short stretches, but it could be enough to throw Rose off his game and give them a different look they weren't expecting.

mattie
04-08-2011, 03:07 PM
that is a good point, we keep forgetting that D Jones is actually a better defender than Rush. lol

Hicks
04-08-2011, 03:34 PM
But you actually are agreeing - you're saying part of the reason Shaq was effective was because you DID have to worry about others - if you tripled down on him they'd make you pay.

Well, obviously Shaq wasn't playing for a crappy team, but the point remains if they had gotten him the ball a lot more often, they'd have been that much more deadly offensively, not matter the how's or why's. And often it would simply be that once he touched the ball, it was a layup, a dunk, and/or a foul. But even then, the Lakers would choose to give someone else the ball. Granted, sometimes that was Kobe Bryant, but not always. The Lakers offense wasn't literally 50% let Kobe create/score or 50% let Shaq create/score.

That's my only real point in any of this. Teams will sometimes go to lesser options.

Eleazar
04-08-2011, 03:41 PM
This is one of the situations where I think having a player like D. Jones comes in handy. If you need to slow down Rose at some point, put D. Jones in at PG and let Mcroberts play point forward. I think this would only work in short stretches, but it could be enough to throw Rose off his game and give them a different look they weren't expecting.

Personally I would rather see Dunleavy play point forward than McRoberts.

Infinite MAN_force
04-08-2011, 04:19 PM
Personally I would rather see Dunleavy play point forward than McRoberts.

Why? I think one could argue that Mcroberts is the best passer on the entire team. Plus we have seen him run the offense for the second unit on occasion lately and it has looked pretty effective.

Infinite MAN_force
04-08-2011, 04:23 PM
that is a good point, we keep forgetting that D Jones is actually a better defender than Rush. lol

I don't agree with this. I think Rush is a better defender overall than Jones. Jones is a just a different kind of defender, hes "get up in your grill" sort of defender. That kind of thing can be effective in short spurts, but Jones can also be prone to fouling and gambling too much at times.

Its situations like this however, when a player like Jones is most valuable. Especially for a playoff series.

QuickRelease
04-08-2011, 04:32 PM
I think AJ Price will be big this series. I'd put Rush on Rose, and not worry too much about the Bulls shooting guards.

BlueNGold
04-08-2011, 09:10 PM
I would throw fresh bodies at Rose starting with Dahntay, then Rush, then George...in that order. The problem with that approach, however, is if Korver is playing SG. He's too tall for Darren to guard. Is it worse than having Darren guard Rose? It's hard to say. On one hand we can play help D on Rose to slow him a little. But I think it will be more important to disrupt Rose as much as possible. Definitely when Korver is off the floor we want someone to blanket Rose.

Taterhead
04-08-2011, 09:23 PM
Well DC has got to be in attack mode of offense. He has to make Rose expend some serious energy on that end of the floor.

And on defense we need to trap as much as possible. Rose's supporting cast is very weak outside of Loul Deng. And Danny matches up pretty well with him. So we need to make them be play makers.

I think a big x-factor in the series is Paul George. If he could play well in a few games it could be huge for us. He is gonna have a favorable match-up no matter who the Bulls try to use to check him, and I could see him causing the Bulls some problems.

Another key is gonna be McBro vs. Boozer and Gibson. We absolutely have to hold our own down low if we want to avoid embarrassment.

Unclebuck
04-08-2011, 09:26 PM
I don't try to contain him beyond whatever I ask my point guard to do with him. Let him get 50 if he wants. I'd rather try to keep his support in check.

Boozer is the scariest part of this to me. He's a load.


Hicks, I criticized this approach earlier in this thread, but I need more information on what you mean. Do you mean play our normal defense, help on Rose as needed, no changes?

Do you mean everyone stay at home and not give help on Rose. Or maybe give late help perhaps once he gets into the lane. Do you mean almost in som respects play a triangle and two, with thre defenders zoning off and we guard Rose and Boozer one on one?

I think if you do either of those approaches it will be a disaster. You have to make someone else make a play besides Rose. He doesn't have a teammate like wade. or Pippen.

One approach in general is to not distort your defense too much on Rose through three quarters, make it tough on him to score, but then in the fourth quarter when Rose's teammates have not been scoring much throughout the game, then you throw the kitchen sink at Rose, double, and make his cold teammates score at crucial times. That general approach can be successful.

But the let Rose get his and concentrate you defense on everyone else is IMO the wrong way to go

Three key things you want to do - three results you want
1) Bulls shoot a poor %
2) Bulls don't get a lot of FT's
3) Bulls don't get a lot of offensive rebounds

LoneGranger33
04-08-2011, 09:31 PM
I don't agree with this. I think Rush is a better defender overall than Jones. Jones is a just a different kind of defender, hes "get up in your grill" sort of defender. That kind of thing can be effective in short spurts, but Jones can also be prone to fouling and gambling too much at times.

That's why I don't think Dahntay Jones is a good choice here. Rose will bust past him everytime. Let him take jumpers all day over Brandon's outstretched arms.

Hicks
04-08-2011, 09:57 PM
Hicks, I criticized this approach earlier in this thread, but I need more information on what you mean. Do you mean play our normal defense, help on Rose as needed, no changes?

Do you mean everyone stay at home and not give help on Rose. Or maybe give late help perhaps once he gets into the lane. Do you mean almost in som respects play a triangle and two, with thre defenders zoning off and we guard Rose and Boozer one on one?

I think if you do either of those approaches it will be a disaster. You have to make someone else make a play besides Rose. He doesn't have a teammate like wade. or Pippen.

One approach in general is to not distort your defense too much on Rose through three quarters, make it tough on him to score, but then in the fourth quarter when Rose's teammates have not been scoring much throughout the game, then you throw the kitchen sink at Rose, double, and make his cold teammates score at crucial times. That general approach can be successful.

But the let Rose get his and concentrate you defense on everyone else is IMO the wrong way to go

Three key things you want to do - three results you want
1) Bulls shoot a poor %
2) Bulls don't get a lot of FT's
3) Bulls don't get a lot of offensive rebounds

I'm saying don't 'over help.' If it's a pick and roll, by all means hedge him. If DC gets beat in a spot where someone can realistically stop the dribble-drive, fine.

But don't over do it to where you're helping too late and just giving him an and 1, don't double when there's no need to double, don't do any kind of help that helps them more than it really helps you, once they know it's coming. Just do what you normally do, more or less.

I wouldn't mind your comment about waiting until the 4th quarter to throw the kitchen sink at him, but I still wouldn't do it all the time. Just sometimes.

This being the Pacers, I'm sure we're still going to over help in at least one way: Leaving the weakside corner wide open. That drives me nuts when we do it in situations where it does more harm than good. If we're going to do that, we'd damn well better be ready to chase them off of the 3 point line.

Oliver
04-08-2011, 11:08 PM
Well DC has got to be in attack mode of offense. He has to make Rose expend some serious energy on that end of the floor.

And on defense we need to trap as much as possible. Rose's supporting cast is very weak outside of Loul Deng. And Danny matches up pretty well with him. So we need to make them be play makers.

I think a big x-factor in the series is Paul George. If he could play well in a few games it could be huge for us. He is gonna have a favorable match-up no matter who the Bulls try to use to check him, and I could see him causing the Bulls some problems.

Another key is gonna be McBro vs. Boozer and Gibson. We absolutely have to hold our own down low if we want to avoid embarrassment.

I think its fantastic that Paul G gets to experience the playoffs his rookie season. This should be an excellent learning opportunity for his development. I could see Paul making some big plays. I agree with Hicks, Boozer and Gibson worry me.

neosmndrew
04-09-2011, 01:33 AM
Do you guys think we have any viable approach to containing Rose other than putting Rush on him and hoping he lessens the damage?

There is one possible approach I would like to throw out there. Back in January, the Bobcats and Bulls played here in Charlotte, and Paul Silas had the team play a full court press on Rose for all of the 1st quarter. While this didn't continue the rest of the game, it rattled Rose enough that he ended up with a stat line of 17 points 7 assists 4 turnovers (part of his struggles came from a poor shooting night as well...5-17) and the Bobcats left the night victorious.

I haven't really seen Indiana be all that successful with the press this year, but then again, I haven't seen them use it much either. Thoughts?

I just remember back when Golden State had that run in '07, Baron Davis was unstoppable for Dallas, thus the upset. However, once Utah started using a half court press (2 guys on him as soon as he gets across half court), he became a turnover machine. Rose has a pretty average assist to turnover ratio (somewhere in the low 2s) because he always looks to score, so if we can force him to have to make a play as soon as he crosses midcourt- say by stretching Danny a little on D- I think we can make him make mistakes.

PR07
04-09-2011, 02:50 AM
I'm okay with putting Collison on any of the Bull's 2-guards, because I don't think any of them are really playmakers. Sure, we may give up height...but Korver is more or less a spot-up shooter and Brewer doesn't hasn't developed much of an offensive game from what I've seen. It actually works in our favor if Bogans gets a lot of minutes at the two because although he's stronger than DC, he's kind of a point guard.

1984
04-09-2011, 09:31 AM
Take the charge.

Make it the second nature of every player on the team. Put Dahntay and Lance red uniforms during a scrimmage and score the scrimmage by how many charges are taken. I know, it sounds ridiculous, but as proven in the last game verses the Bulls the only way to shut Rose down is to keep him on the bench. How did Derrick Rose collect his fouls in that game? Charges.

BlueNGold
04-09-2011, 09:45 AM
Take the charge.

Make it the second nature of every player on the team. Put Dahntay and Lance red uniforms during a scrimmage and score the scrimmage by how many charges are taken. I know, it sounds ridiculous, but as proven in the last game verses the Bulls the only way to shut Rose down is to keep him on the bench. How did Derrick Rose collect his fouls in that game? Charges.

This is really a good point. He gets very creative around the bucket but not so much out on the floor. The man has few if any weaknesses but that might be one where he is human. That (help D) may be a better strategy than attempting to lock him down. Better try both though.

PacersHomer
04-10-2011, 01:11 PM
Put Lance Stephenson to use and have him kidnap Rose!

LucasRL13
04-10-2011, 01:35 PM
Rose have 15p in first period against Orlando

Il Ragionier Ugo Fantozzi
04-10-2011, 04:24 PM
39p, 13/17...

pacer4ever
04-10-2011, 05:43 PM
Take the charge.

Make it the second nature of every player on the team. Put Dahntay and Lance red uniforms during a scrimmage and score the scrimmage by how many charges are taken. I know, it sounds ridiculous, but as proven in the last game verses the Bulls the only way to shut Rose down is to keep him on the bench. How did Derrick Rose collect his fouls in that game? Charges.

Rose is so quick and moblie he is very good at avoiding charges and contact.

BQQ
04-12-2011, 06:36 PM
send posey or smb and put D.Rose a$$ on the ground - even if it takes a ejection

Bulls without him is herd of cows not bulls:)