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Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 04:00 AM
This is coming from a guy who never was a Boston and Larry Bird fan growing up. I didn't start watching basketball until 1993, and that was because of field trips to MSA and my interest in playing the sport. I was 9. I look back at him now as an adult and realize he is one of the best players to ever step on the court.

I've been one of the biggest Bird supporters since he joined us. This isn't an "I told you so" and an "eat your crow" thread, but let's give the man some props.

Everyone knows what happened when the two headed monster existed, before we canned Walsh. Thankfully we finally got rid of the guy who almost took our franchise to glory, then, ran it in the ground. Nothing lasts forever. It was his time to go.

Since Bird has taken over he has been the best GM in the NBA BY FAR! Anyone who can't see this at this point is really blind. Sure you can say Pat Riley, blah, blah, blah, but Larry took a deck of cards that were heavily stacked against him and is sitting at the finalist table.

I said many years back that what Larry was assembling one of the best young cores in the NBA, if not the best.

Trading a washed up JO for one of the most promising young centers in the game? Brilliant. The announcer who said Hibbert wasn't a true center should be fired. In my mind he is what defines a true center. He is the most promising young true center in the game. He doesn't go down there and foul someone every play like Howard, he does it with finesse and old school post movers and shooting. He has future All-Star written all over him. The hardest player to come by in the whole NBA is a true center that can stay healthy that has the potential to be a future All-Star

Oh but what about Bayless for B Rush? Well considering we MUST re-sign a 23 old power forward we acuired from this deal on top of B Rush, I'd say we made out like thieves in the night. This is better than the JO trade we got from them in my book. JO was losing basketball, as his epic failure here proved.

Trading Murphy for Collison? Steal of the year by far. Collison is the most promising young point gaurd we have ever had here in Indiana folks. People bash him, and even I lobbied for TJ Ford during the locker room meltdown, because TJ Ford was always a professional. Sookie gets it right on him and Price alot. I think she knows more about the PG position than any of the posters on this board. He is a second year player trying to leran the hardest position in the NBA under his fourth coach. Noone knows how high Collison's ceiling is, but if it 20/10 on a 50 win team, that is All-Star caliber.

Any criticisms of Hansbrough should be laid to rest. I annointed him starter his rookie year and people called me nuts, but he was the steal of that draft for where we got him. Sure there may be a couple of better players ahead of him, but we got a lottery pick essentially in the teens because he had so many doubters. Another brilliant move by Bird. Can't discount getting Price in the second round either. He has proved he belongs in the NBA as a second unit point gaurd. How many point gaurds that year went ahead of him? Pretty good for where we got him.

Paul George may be the steal of the decade. He has Kobe Bryant 2.0 written all over him. How did we get a number one pick at 10? I don't know. But anyone who doesn't think Paul George has top 3 pick talent must really not watch the NBA draft. Where was Dunleavy picked? George has by far the most talent on the team. I find it funny the night after the poster questioned him because Hayward scored 22 on Kobe, George put up 23 and may be the next Kobe lol. Okay maybe his ceiling isn't as high as Bryants, but he is the most talented the Pacers have ever had. I'm not crowning his *** and saying he is better than Reggie, but his ceiling is much higher.

Is Lance Stephenson the biggest fan on the bench nowadays? Man I really think this kid has turned a corner since the locker room meltdown. It gives me the chills and puts a tear in my eye, but I think the vets have really embraced him. And we don't have a team full of thugs. We have hard working guys who keep their **** in order. He is the one player who has as much if not more talent than George on this team, and he is the biggest wildcard. What happens to our team one day if George and Stephenson both live up to their full potentials?

Am I crazy to think a championship is more feasible with this young core than any we have ever had? I think Larry has assembled a future championship contender with a cool 25-30 mil in cap space.

Name one GM who has done more with less and I'll laugh. There isn't one. Or name one close who has the cap space he has under the new CBA? Laughing all the way to the bank, Larry, all the way to the bank.

His one mistake; keeping Jimmy too long. But that was Bird's reward for Jimmy taking a job no other experienced NBA head coach would take. Let's give Jimmy his due. He lit the fire under Hibbert's and Hansbrough's and McRoberts's and all the young guys butts. He made them work hard. Game day full contact practices. You could tell we were always wore out at the end of the games and how it hurt our stamina. But it made them stronger!!! Made them want to prove him wrong!

But Bird completely redeemed himself by firing JOB at just the right time to promote one of the best young coaches in the NBA. We have to re-sign Vogel for next year! I am in love with this guy and what has done to bring Pacers basketball back. I said it before and I'll say it again, you don't ever let a guy like him walk. His work ethic is unmatched, and his belief in his players goes a long way.

Playoffs baby!!! Boom Baby!!! Get your free kool-aid and and blue and yellow sunglasses while supplies last!!! Let's upset Chicago for Slick!!!!

BOOOOOOM BAAAAAAAABY!!!!!!!

Kstat
04-07-2011, 04:07 AM
OK, this is going a tad too far. I doubt 3 years ago Larry's grand scheme was to secure the 8th seed in the east with a sub-.500 record.

I think he's improved the roster a good deal since 2007, but let's be real here. Best GM in the NBA? Where's the green font?

The Rocker
04-07-2011, 04:10 AM
lets be one of the best

HOOPFANATIC
04-07-2011, 04:11 AM
I've been a Bird complainer, the OJ trade, the Murphleavy deal, JOB, but gotta give it up to him, he has put together a pretty decent squad and some nice cap room to play with.

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 04:20 AM
Wow my post got cut off. I had some really good homer stuff in there. Kstat not meant to be green. When you think of young talent, you think of the Pacers. When you think of the Pistons, you think of a veteran trash fire. No offense. They are really that bad. Reminds me of the dark years around here.

Kstat
04-07-2011, 04:27 AM
.....and if I mentioned the Pistons, that would be relevant.....

I'm fairly certain that outside of Indy, Indiana is not the team that comes to mind when you think "young talent."There's young talent there, but teams like OKC, LAC and Chicago are the generally regarded teams of the future.

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 05:05 AM
.....and if I mentioned the Pistons, that would be relevant.....

I'm fairly certain that outside of Indy, Indiana is not the team that comes to mind when you think "young talent."There's young talent there, but teams like OKC, LAC and Chicago are the generally regarded teams of the future.

I'm pretty sure outside of distant Pacers fans, the Pacers are probably never even thought of outside of Indy. You think anybody would have ever considered the Pacers in Reggie's first playoffs a future team capable of taking MJ to a game 7 in his championship run?

You named LA, Chicago, and Kevin Durant, who I think is the best player in the NBA. Of course they are considered teams of the future. Mark my words, the Clippers will never go anywhere. I'd like them alot more if they just moved to Seattle.

Honestly I don't know how to feel about D Rose and Chicago. I just don't see championship for sure in their future. At least I hope not. Nothing would sicken me more than seeing Boston LA or the Chicago winning another championship before a franchise more deserving. Sure odds are one of those teams wins one before the Pacers do, but I can hope can't I?

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 05:22 AM
OK, this is going a tad too far. I doubt 3 years ago Larry's grand scheme was to secure the 8th seed in the east with a sub-.500 record.

I think he's improved the roster a good deal since 2007, but let's be real here. Best GM in the NBA? Where's the green font?

I look to Vogels 19-16 record and nothing else this year. Whatever JOB did, was irrelevant. Vogel turned the ship around mid season, survived a locker room meltdown/6 game losing streak/lost 8 of 9, and beat the Knicks twice and Boston and Chicago after that.

19-16 is the record that got us here and anything before that should not be applied to this team. It's not like Vogel is just doing what Jimmy did but we are getting lucky and winning. He literally shook this team up, gave us fans what we wanted, played the young guys, preached a smashmouth get to the rim style, and started winning. Sure there were growing pains but he took us to the promised land.

Larry's 3 year plan was to get us to to the playoffs in said third. Sure he had to fire Jimmy and promote Frank to do it, but he did it, so a win is a win. He also has more cap space than any team in the league and a young team that will compete for a championship in the future without having to blow that cap space on anyone other than draft picks or re-signing our guys.

The Jackson shimmy
04-07-2011, 06:00 AM
Midcoasted-

Don't listen to the naysayers. It's ok to be delusional when
you're still under 30 !

pacer4ever
04-07-2011, 07:06 AM
This is coming from a guy who never was a Boston and Larry Bird fan growing up. I didn't start watching basketball until 1993, and that was because of field trips to MSA and my interest in playing the sport. I was 9. I look back at him now as an adult and realize he is one of the best players to ever step on the court.

I've been one of the biggest Bird supporters since he joined us. This isn't an "I told you so" and an "eat your crow" thread, but let's give the man some props.

Everyone knows what happened when the two headed monster existed, before we canned Walsh. Thankfully we finally got rid of the guy who almost took our franchise to glory, then, ran it in the ground. Nothing lasts forever. It was his time to go.

Since Bird has taken over he has been the best GM in the NBA BY FAR! Anyone who can't see this at this point is really blind. Sure you can say Pat Riley, blah, blah, blah, but Larry took a deck of cards that were heavily stacked against him and is sitting at the finalist table.

I said many years back that what Larry was assembling one of the best young cores in the NBA, if not the best.

Trading a washed up JO for one of the most promising young centers in the game? Brilliant. The announcer who said Hibbert wasn't a true center should be fired. In my mind he is what defines a true center. He is the most promising young true center in the game. He doesn't go down there and foul someone every play like Howard, he does it with finesse and old school post movers and shooting. He has future All-Star written all over him. The hardest player to come by in the whole NBA is a true center that can stay healthy that has the potential to be a future All-Star

Oh but what about Bayless for B Rush? Well considering we MUST re-sign a 23 old power forward we acuired from this deal on top of B Rush, I'd say we made out like thieves in the night. This is better than the JO trade we got from them in my book. JO was losing basketball, as his epic failure here proved.

Trading Murphy for Collison? Steal of the year by far. Collison is the most promising young point gaurd we have ever had here in Indiana folks. People bash him, and even I lobbied for TJ Ford during the locker room meltdown, because TJ Ford was always a professional. Sookie gets it right on him and Price alot. I think she knows more about the PG position than any of the posters on this board. He is a second year player trying to leran the hardest position in the NBA under his fourth coach. Noone knows how high Collison's ceiling is, but if it 20/10 on a 50 win team, that is All-Star caliber.

Any criticisms of Hansbrough should be laid to rest. I annointed him starter his rookie year and people called me nuts, but he was the steal of that draft for where we got him. Sure there may be a couple of better players ahead of him, but we got a lottery pick essentially in the teens because he had so many doubters. Another brilliant move by Bird. Can't discount getting Price in the second round either. He has proved he belongs in the NBA as a second unit point gaurd. How many point gaurds that year went ahead of him? Pretty good for where we got him.

Paul George may be the steal of the decade. He has Kobe Bryant 2.0 written all over him. How did we get a number one pick at 10? I don't know. But anyone who doesn't think Paul George has top 3 pick talent must really not watch the NBA draft. Where was Dunleavy picked? George has by far the most talent on the team. I find it funny the night after the poster questioned him because Hayward scored 22 on Kobe, George put up 23 and may be the next Kobe lol. Okay maybe his ceiling isn't as high as Bryants, but he is the most talented the Pacers have ever had. I'm not crowning his *** and saying he is better than Reggie, but his ceiling is much higher.

Is Lance Stephenson the biggest fan on the bench nowadays? Man I really think this kid has turned a corner since the locker room meltdown. It gives me the chills and puts a tear in my eye, but I think the vets have really embraced him. And we don't have a team full of thugs. We have hard working guys who keep their **** in order. He is the one player who has as much if not more talent than George on this team, and he is the biggest wildcard. What happens to our team one day if George and Stephenson both live up to their full potentials?

Am I crazy to think a championship is more feasible with this young core than any we have ever had? I think Larry has assembled a future championship contender with a cool 25-30 mil in cap space.

Name one GM who has done more with less and I'll laugh. There isn't one. Or name one close who has the cap space he has under the new CBA? Laughing all the way to the bank, Larry, all the way to the bank.

His one mistake; keeping Jimmy too long. But that was Bird's reward for Jimmy taking a job no other experienced NBA head coach would take. Let's give Jimmy his due. He lit the fire under Hibbert's and Hansbrough's and McRoberts's and all the young guys butts. He made them work hard. Game day full contact practices. You could tell we were always wore out at the end of the games and how it hurt our stamina. But it made them stronger!!! Made them want to prove him wrong!

But Bird completely redeemed himself by firing JOB at just the right time to promote one of the best young coaches in the NBA. We have to re-sign Vogel for next year! I am in love with this guy and what has done to bring Pacers basketball back. I said it before and I'll say it again, you don't ever let a guy like him walk. His work ethic is unmatched, and his belief in his players goes a long way.

Playoffs baby!!! Boom Baby!!! Get your free kool-aid and and blue and yellow sunglasses while supplies last!!! Let's upset Chicago for Slick!!!!

BOOOOOOM BAAAAAAAABY!!!!!!!

almost all of this should be in bright green font.

MrHale
04-07-2011, 07:48 AM
Bynum > hibbert

BRushWithDeath
04-07-2011, 08:55 AM
I read the first post and thought, "This is a really good parody."

Then I read all the subsequent posts...

NapTonius Monk
04-07-2011, 08:58 AM
I've been a Bird complainer, the OJ trade, the Murphleavy deal, JOB, but gotta give it up to him, he has put together a pretty decent squad and some nice cap room to play with.What was the complaint about the OJ trade?

Pacerized
04-07-2011, 09:23 AM
Larry has put together a very solid group of young players. He didn't cave in to a bad trade just to win a few more games like so many GM's do. Now we have the cap space to play with going into a new CBA. I really don't think any GM or President could have done any better then Larry has. We can't call him the best GM in basketball just yet but we may be this time next year. I really hope he stays in control of the Pacers for a long time to come. I wish he'd come out and make a statement to that effect.

Kegboy
04-07-2011, 09:36 AM
I've come to a sad conclusion. Whenever someone on here says without prompting "I'm not a ..." or "This thread isn't ...", what follows will always show the opposite to be true.

Justin Tyme
04-07-2011, 12:05 PM
When I think of a team making the playoffs, I don't think of it being 36-43. Those 36 wins can turn into another 1 or 2 wins, but still an under .500 team. Basically, this team will finish with the same record of Jimmy's 1st 2 seasons. Bird's 1st 3 years as PBO is 102-144 with this year so far as 36-43. That's not exactly something to hang one's hat on. The ONLY reason this team is in the playoffs is b/c the EC has terrible teams. To me it's a consolation prize of being the better of the worst, and that doesn't say much to me.

I won't go into Bird's assets or liabilities, as I'm on record as to what they are, BUT I will give credit when credit is due in that Bird has changed the culture of the team he took over as PBO. That in itself has been a wonderful achievement when others on this board would trade for non-milk drinkers and their baggage all for winning no matter what the cost.

As far as the thread, it is homerism at it's finest no matter how misconstrude, BUT I can understand the over zealous optimism with making the playoffs. I can see where Bird has laid a foundation for another to build the future, and I can say thanks Mr. Bird for all your effort you put into it.

Speed
04-07-2011, 12:17 PM
I've come to a sad conclusion. Whenever someone on here says without prompting "I'm not a ..." or "This thread isn't ...", what follows will always show the opposite to be true.

I would never and I'm not gonna try to break this down into one word, but...

Paradox

beast23
04-07-2011, 12:37 PM
Larry's 3 year plan was to get us to to the playoffs in said third. Sure he had to fire Jimmy and promote Frank to do it, but he did it, so a win is a win. He also has more cap space than any team in the league and a young team that will compete for a championship in the future without having to blow that cap space on anyone other than draft picks or re-signing our guys.
Part of Bird's plan was to make the playoffs within the 3 years. Another part was to be patient and create substantial cap room while building a team of desirable assets. That much Bird has accomplished.

But if you honestly believe that the Pacers will compete for a championship merely through draft picks and re-signing our present players, you are living in some alternate universe. It will require acquiring some talented players and veteran leadership through trades and/or free agency.

Stay tuned this summer, I believe you will begin to see the second stage of Bird's plan start to play out. It's just a question of what players and draft choices will be traded.

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 02:01 PM
I laid out a well thought out homer post, and noone can even dispute it with facts. Am I dellusional? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. There's a chance I'm right. I still don't think anyone can show me a GM that has done more with less.

Pacer4Ever, shouldn't you be watching the promising Clippers finish with a worse record than us? I read your posts and you really think Eric Gordon is better than everyone on our team and I lol. People really think the Clippers have more talent than we do? Damn that talent has them all of 31 wins right now, and I'd bet our team and starting 5 is younger. How long have they been in lottery land and went nowhere? Since they were in existence? Sure they play in the Western Conference, but all the more reason they will be in lottery land no matter how good Griffin and Gordon become.

It doesn't surprise me at all that some of the posters calling this a paradox, or saying my whole post should be green font, are the posters on this board who would use things like "least talented team in NBA" to describe our boys. We didn't go 19-16 by only beating up on the bad. We made it by beating the Knicks twice, Charlotte handily, the Bucks, the Bulls, and the Celtics. Imagine if we would have beat all the teams worse than us what our record would be.

I'm sick and tired of posters here saying Hibbert is the worst starting center in the NBA, Collison is no good, Bird only drafted Hans because he is white, McRoberts doesn't belong in the NBA, George will take three years to even play. It goes on and on. What, I'm just supposed to the believe all this negative hype and live in "reality" when alot of posters here use their negative "realities" like everyone one is supposed to believe it as fact?

Well I might not be totally right, but I'm closer to being right than the posters who look down on our Pacers. At least bandwagon fans believe in their team and players, or they wouldn't hop on the bandwagon. What's the point of even being a fan if you think so lowly of everything that Pacers have done the past few years?

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 02:04 PM
Part of Bird's plan was to make the playoffs within the 3 years. Another part was to be patient and create substantial cap room while building a team of desirable assets. That much Bird has accomplished.

But if you honestly believe that the Pacers will compete for a championship merely through draft picks and re-signing our present players, you are living in some alternate universe. It will require acquiring some talented players and veteran leadership through trades and/or free agency.

Stay tuned this summer, I believe you will begin to see the second stage of Bird's plan start to play out. It's just a question of what players and draft choices will be traded.

So what happens when Hibbert Collison Hansbrough McRoberts and Rush are all veterans, Granger is playing the Robin role, and Paul George develops into one of the best players in the NBA? We won't be competing for a championship then? I mean what position do we need all this help from we can't get from the draft? Back-up center? Sorry buddy, you are the one living in an alternate universe. That is more talent than we've ever had since I've been a fan these past 18 years.

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 02:07 PM
I've come to a sad conclusion. Whenever someone on here says without prompting "I'm not a ..." or "This thread isn't ...", what follows will always show the opposite to be true.

Trust me, I could go back, and serve a heavy dose of crow to most posters on this board, with quotes and all. I didn't do that. I didn't call anyone out by name or demand anyone agree with me and eat crow. If I would have your point would be valid. More Pacers Digest illogic at its finest.

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 02:08 PM
Bynum > hibbert

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Put Bynum on the Twolves and you quickly forgot he ever existed. I would take Hibbert over Bynum in every aspect of the game outside of lower body strength.

Heisenberg
04-07-2011, 02:14 PM
I'm pretty damn excited about being back in the playoffs too, but this is just bizarre stuff.

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 02:15 PM
almost all of this should be in bright green font.

I've been watching the Pacers since you were born and I'm only 27. You are one of the most pessimistic posters on the board. You know nothing about Indiana basketball or how high our players potentials are and you proved it with like 10 words. I really think the quality of posts here at PD have went down since you've spewed out 8000 posts in a year with some of the worse garbage I've ever seen come out of a diehards mouth.

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 02:20 PM
I'm pretty damn excited about being back in the playoffs too, but this is just bizarre stuff.

Point to the bizzare stuff and I will try to dispute it the best I can. Just saying it is bizzare doesn't get us anywhere. I mean where are all these crazy callers when people said Hibbert was the least talented starting center in the NBA? Or firing Jim Obrien won't improve out record? McRoberts doesn't belong in the NBA? Why weren't you there calling them bizzare? They were actually more wrong than anything I said in my post. My post is TBD, a majority of posters here looked at Hibbert, Hasnbrough, McRoberts, Collison, George, Granger and Rush as a scrap pile. Least talented in the NBA they said. They were more wrong than I will ever be. Where was all this green font, delusional, alternate reality name calling and finger pointing then?

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 02:23 PM
What was the complaint about the OJ trade?

It would have made our team worse, not better. Honestly I think it fell through because Bird wanted more than just Mayo for what he was offering. We know Larry, he won't make a trade unless it's a steal. The poster you qutoed who credited Bird with the Murphleavy could not be more wrong. Those were the two headed monster/brawl/shooting up Indy times. It's not like Bird dreamed of that move everynight and got his wish.

ksuttonjr76
04-07-2011, 02:30 PM
This is offseason will make or break this team going forward.

BillS
04-07-2011, 02:47 PM
So what happens when Hibbert Collison Hansbrough McRoberts and Rush are all veterans, Granger is playing the Robin role, and Paul George develops into one of the best players in the NBA? We won't be competing for a championship then? I mean what position do we need all this help from we can't get from the draft? Back-up center? Sorry buddy, you are the one living in an alternate universe. That is more talent than we've ever had since I've been a fan these past 18 years.

That's a pretty heaping bowl full of ifs.

I maintain you need a frosty glass of Free Agent and a plate of Locker Room Leader to make that a part of This Complete Breakfast of Champions.

Justin Tyme
04-07-2011, 03:16 PM
[QUOTE=Midcoasted;1209282]

So what happens when Hibbert Collison Hansbrough McRoberts and Rush are all veterans/QUOTE]


What happens when Rush is traded this off season and McBob isn't re-signed?

Oh btw, that player that was to have been in the trade with Charlotte last year where Rush was part of the trade, Henderson, scored 32 points last night. Bird knew something that apparently you don't.

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 03:17 PM
That's a pretty heaping bowl full of ifs.

I maintain you need a frosty glass of Free Agent and a plate of Locker Room Leader to make that a part of This Complete Breakfast of Champions.

Look at how the Colts brought a championship to Indy in far fewer years than the Pacers, if the Pacers ever do. Which I believe the FO when they say they will not stop short of a championship. The purpose of this is to bring a championship to Indiana. It gave me chills last night when I heard Vogel talking about this is how we do it. These are our guys. We build through the draft and the development of young talent.

If Larry trades for anyone this summer it will not be veterans. He has proven time and time again that his goal is to build through the development of the young players. Sure we got Collison through a trade, but Vogel has really started developing him into a real threat.

I see a draft day trade is more likely than us throwing way to much money on a trash veteran like Ben Gordon. That is way to risky. It would be a dire mistake for us do such. That's how we got Hibbert, McRoberts, and Rush, through draft day trades. All solid draft picks for where they were selected. Sure other teams picked them and traded us their rights, and in Josh's case, he developed on the bench a year in Portland, but these are our guys.

I'll say it again. These are our guys. This is how we build, through the draft and development of young talent. Just like the Colts a few blocks away. It will bring us a championship if Larry stays his course.

If anything this is a plea for Larry to hang around a couple of more years and allow Vogel to do the same and see this thing out. I'm thinking best case scenario only because I believe we will win a championship in my lifetime and this is the best chance we've had since 1998 and noone lives forever.

I haven't been more proud of a Pacers team since we took Jordan to game 7, in the series where Reggie proved he deserves to be a first ballot hall of famer in an NBA Hall of Fame. The years after that the glory was lost and no matter how good we were in the regular season, our team had holes and fatal flaws that made a championship almost impossible after 1998, well that and Shaq lol. Trading Antonio Davis for anyone was Walsh's biggest mistake, and it hurts even more it ended up being for Bender. I think that's ultimately what prevented us from stopping Shaq Daddy that year in the Finals.

Those teams were not as good as the 98 team still though. We regressed and kept regressing to the point where about 2007-2009 was the bottom. Retooling for Artest and company was a huge mistake as well regardless of how many games we won because it decimated our fanbase. I think we will keep improving from here on and hopefully to the Caliber of the 98 team, only we bring it home this time.

Other teams figured us out when we lost 8 out of 9, but for once, we adjusted. Thank you Vogel. We're in the playoffs. Let's steal one in Chicago in bring it back home with true purpose!!!

Scot Pollard
04-07-2011, 03:24 PM
i want us to be a solid playoff team not we'll make the playoffs this season and then blow it next season like some teams from the east did this season

this is a nice start but this team needs more

we have some good young guys on this team but we'll need to bring in more talent

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 03:24 PM
[QUOTE=Midcoasted;1209282]

So what happens when Hibbert Collison Hansbrough McRoberts and Rush are all veterans/QUOTE]


What happens when Rush is traded this off season and McBob isn't re-signed?

We become less talented? Maybe we can sign some scrubs like Solo and Posey to replace them and play over them?

I think Rush may not be safe, because of his pot issues, but he seems to be the type of guy you want coming off the bench on a championship contender. Why let him go if he has decided to only smoke on the offseason? Plays great perimeter defense and can hit the three in crunch time. He can be had for cheap.

I also think letting McRoberts go would be a mistake because he is the best passer on the team, or at least in the conversation with Collison and Stephenson. He just gets the hustle plays that matter. I see him as a Jeff Foster with a more polished all around game. Why let him walk if he can be had for 3-4 mil a year for 3 years? Hasn't he only improved with time and is only 23 years old? He would only be 26 when his deal is up.

Kstat
04-07-2011, 03:26 PM
I've been watching the Pacers since you were born and I'm only 27. You are one of the most pessimistic posters on the board. You know nothing about Indiana basketball or how high our players potentials are and you proved it with like 10 words. I really think the quality of posts here at PD have went down since you've spewed out 8000 posts in a year with some of the worse garbage I've ever seen come out of a diehards mouth.

....because he's trying to be realistic? You're crossing the line here.

spewing venom is not the same thing as pointing out reality. Don't attack posters because they aren't kool-aid addicts.

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 03:32 PM
i want us to be a solid playoff team not we'll make the playoffs this season and then blow it next season like some teams from the east did this season

this is a nice start but this team needs more

we have some good young guys on this team but we'll need to bring in more talent

I'd still like to see these guys get a full summer under this coach that won't smash their confidence into the ground with a 10 lb sledge hammer after a decent start to the season. I could see us taking the 4-6 spot in the East next year with this group.

Midcoasted
04-07-2011, 03:39 PM
....because he's trying to be realistic? You're crossing the line here.

spewing venom is not the same thing as pointing out reality. Don't attack posters because they aren't kool-aid addicts.

Well there has to be a balance with everything in life. He attacked me first and made a mockery of my whole argument by saying most of it should be green, when only a small portion should be considered a candidate for green in my mind.

Don't attack posters because they aren't negativity addicts. This is the only reputable Pacers board on the net. We don't have enough homers here. We have way to many pessimists and doubters. If this is the only way I can help to balance that then so be it. I'll take the most extreme stand and stand alone. Many other posters can congregate on the other side of the spectrum and think we have no shot and our talent just isn't good enough. They can also think there's all this talent running around out there that we will have to acquire before we compete. It isn't easy to come by.

Talent isn't everything. Chemisty, cohesion, and team play all define a team. Not just this notion that we have to become more talented with big moves that could backfire and tie our hands for years to come this offseason.

Kstat
04-07-2011, 03:44 PM
Well there has to be a balance with everything in life. He attacked me first and made a mockery of my whole argument by saying most of it should be green, when only a small portion should be considered a candidate for green in my mind.


I said the same thing....others have implied the same thing.



Don't attack posters because they aren't negativity addicts. This is the only reputable Pacers board on the net. We don't have enough homers here.

...you ever consider that might be why this is the only reputable Pacers board on the net? Nobody wants to step into a rah-rah fest that lives outside of reality.


We have way to many pessimists and doubters. If this is the only way I can help to balance that then so be it. I'll take the most extreme stand and stand alone.

....that isn't balancing anything out. It's making it worse.


Talent isn't everything. Chemisty, cohesion, and team play all define a team. Not just this notion that we have to become more talented with big moves that could backfire and tie our hands for years to come this offseason.

....all of which have nothign to do with everything that preceded it.

pacer4ever
04-07-2011, 03:52 PM
I read the first post and thought, "This is a really good parody."

Then I read all the subsequent posts...


When I think of a team making the playoffs, I don't think of it being 36-43. Those 36 wins can turn into another 1 or 2 wins, but still an under .500 team. Basically, this team will finish with the same record of Jimmy's 1st 2 seasons. Bird's 1st 3 years as PBO is 102-144 with this year so far as 36-43. That's not exactly something to hang one's hat on. The ONLY reason this team is in the playoffs is b/c the EC has terrible teams. To me it's a consolation prize of being the better of the worst, and that doesn't say much to me.

I won't go into Bird's assets or liabilities, as I'm on record as to what they are, BUT I will give credit when credit is due in that Bird has changed the culture of the team he took over as PBO. That in itself has been a wonderful achievement when others on this board would trade for non-milk drinkers and their baggage all for winning no matter what the cost.

As far as the thread, it is homerism at it's finest no matter how misconstrude, BUT I can understand the over zealous optimism with making the playoffs. I can see where Bird has laid a foundation for another to build the future, and I can say thanks Mr. Bird for all your effort you put into it.


I laid out a well thought out homer post, and noone can even dispute it with facts. Am I dellusional? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. There's a chance I'm right. I still don't think anyone can show me a GM that has done more with less.

Pacer4Ever, shouldn't you be watching the promising Clippers finish with a worse record than us? I read your posts and you really think Eric Gordon is better than everyone on our team and I lol. People really think the Clippers have more talent than we do? Damn that talent has them all of 31 wins right now, and I'd bet our team and starting 5 is younger. How long have they been in lottery land and went nowhere? Since they were in existence? Sure they play in the Western Conference, but all the more reason they will be in lottery land no matter how good Griffin and Gordon become.

It doesn't surprise me at all that some of the posters calling this a paradox, or saying my whole post should be green font, are the posters on this board who would use things like "least talented team in NBA" to describe our boys. We didn't go 19-16 by only beating up on the bad. We made it by beating the Knicks twice, Charlotte handily, the Bucks, the Bulls, and the Celtics. Imagine if we would have beat all the teams worse than us what our record would be.

I'm sick and tired of posters here saying Hibbert is the worst starting center in the NBA, Collison is no good, Bird only drafted Hans because he is white, McRoberts doesn't belong in the NBA, George will take three years to even play. It goes on and on. What, I'm just supposed to the believe all this negative hype and live in "reality" when alot of posters here use their negative "realities" like everyone one is supposed to believe it as fact?

Well I might not be totally right, but I'm closer to being right than the posters who look down on our Pacers. At least bandwagon fans believe in their team and players, or they wouldn't hop on the bandwagon. What's the point of even being a fan if you think so lowly of everything that Pacers have done the past few years?


pessimistic? I guess all the posters in this thread are pessimistic also and they are all mocking you also? Why people take stuff personal i will never know it is pretty sad that you do. Im just being real. Saying the Pacers have a better Core than Clippers is so laughable. Most experts consider the Clippers young core 2nd only to OKC. I have never said EJ is better than any Pacer however the Clippers value EJ very very very higly that is why i say they are not trading him for the players on the Pacers. They refused to trade him for Melo who is better than anyone on the Pacers and Melo has more trade Value than anyone on the Pacers. It is how the Pacers viewed DG a few years ago when they made himn untradeable. Im sorry i am not a homer in the way most on PD are and if you are gonna attack me for not being a homer just keep bashing.

pacer4ever
04-07-2011, 03:56 PM
....because he's trying to be realistic? You're crossing the line here.

spewing venom is not the same thing as pointing out reality. Don't attack posters because they aren't kool-aid addicts.

Very true if we had the Lakers roster or OKC or Chicago you know i would be the first one to pat Larry Bird on the back

for buliding a great team and would proably be a homer going about it.

BRushWithDeath
04-07-2011, 04:07 PM
I have never said EJ is better than any Pacer however the Clippers value EJ very very very higly that is why i say they are not trading him for the players on the Pacers.

I'll say he's better than any Pacer.

Trader Joe
04-07-2011, 04:10 PM
I've been watching the Pacers since you were born and I'm only 27. You are one of the most pessimistic posters on the board. You know nothing about Indiana basketball or how high our players potentials are and you proved it with like 10 words. I really think the quality of posts here at PD have went down since you've spewed out 8000 posts in a year with some of the worse garbage I've ever seen come out of a diehards mouth.

What no get off my lawn? Seriously get off your high horse. Pessimistic? The poor kids been riding Paul George's jock since we drafted him. I'd say he's had a healthy mix of pessimism and optimism.

And you wanna talk about a post that brings down the quality of discussion on PD we might as well just frame this one as the prime example.

Trader Joe
04-07-2011, 04:11 PM
I'll say he's better than any Pacer.

Yeah, I'd probably agree with this.

Mackey_Rose
04-07-2011, 04:12 PM
Whatever this dude is smoking has got to be awesome.

Trophy
04-07-2011, 04:13 PM
I don't think this was really Bird's true goal.

Yeah it was to make the playoffs, but I didn't think he wanted to do it with us a still being a sub .500 team.

This team still needs a lot of work and bring in some key players via trade or free agency.

Trophy
04-07-2011, 04:16 PM
I'll say he's better than any Pacer.

He'd be the best player here since Reggie.

I'd love to add EJ. He'd make us a hell of a playoff team for years.

He plays like a star SG.

I'd live with not settling and signing anyone this offseason and make a strong push to get EJ in 2012 most likely by S&T.

beast23
04-07-2011, 04:20 PM
If Larry trades for anyone this summer it will not be veterans. He has proven time and time again that his goal is to build through the development of the young players. Sure we got Collison through a trade, but Vogel has really started developing him into a real threat...

If anything this is a plea for Larry to hang around a couple of more years and allow Vogel to do the same and see this thing out...

Are you absolutely certain you would want Bird to stay?

I'm asking because Bird is the highest ranking member of the TPTB and he has stated throughout the year that this team is lacking a veteran presence.

So, Bird's goal is not to build THROUGH the development of young players, but rather because of the increase in value of his tradeable assets by developing these young players.

If Bird is not able to trade for a starting veteran or two this summer, or sign a couple as free agents, it will NOT be because of a lack of trying. If you continue to believe otherwise, it is only because you have not been listening and reading.