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View Full Version : Rodman, Gilmore, Mullin and Sabonis make the hall of fame...



Kstat
04-04-2011, 02:23 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6289323

They're joined by Satch Sanders (career 10/6 player but has 8 rings), Tex Winters (arguably the most influential career assistant coach of all time), Herb Magee (greatest D-II coach ever), Goose Tatum (former Globetrotter), Tara VanDerveer (Stanford head coach) and Teresa Edwards (great pre-WNBA woman's player).

Kstat
04-04-2011, 02:26 PM
BTW, this means the entire 9 man rotation of the 1963 Boston Celtics is in the hall of fame.

BillS
04-04-2011, 02:32 PM
Gilmore must have been the choice of the ABA committee referred to in an earlier post. Still no one in whose entire pro career was in the ABA.

PaceBalls
04-04-2011, 02:48 PM
Rodman and Mullin before Reggie? Doesn't seem right. I suppose I am biased... but still. :shrug:

vapacersfan
04-04-2011, 02:53 PM
Congrats to all, and super cool to see Artis in. Hope to see Reggie in there soon!



Artis Gilmore Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame!






JACKSONVILLE, Fla. - With a record-setting college career and a stellar professional career that included being named an all-star in three different leagues, Artis Gilmore will be enshrined in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2011.




Gilmore's career has been legendary from the beginning - starting with taking Jacksonville University on a Cinderella run to the national title game in 1970. From there, he was drafted by the Kentucky Colonels of the ABA - leading them to the title in 1975, earning Most Valuable Player honors in the playoffs. After the merger, Gilmore was the first pick in the ABA dispersal draft by the Chicago Bulls, playing 12 seasons in the NBA with Chicago, San Antonio and Boston.




He will be inducted into the Hall during the annual enshrinement ceremony set for Aug. 11-13 in Springfield, Mass.




"As a youngster growing up in Chipley, Florida I admired with awe, basketball legends like Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West and Oscar Robertson. I never imagined that one day I might share a stage with them as a member of the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame," Gilmore said. "On behalf of the entire Gilmore family I want to thank everyone who made this honor possible. I hope to represent you all proudly."




His basketball career was blossoming when he signed with Jacksonville University in the spring of 1969. Less than a year later, Gilmore had put not just the school, but the entire city on the map.




"This is a tremendous and well deserved honor for Artis and on behalf of the entire JU community, we congratulate him on receiving this recognition," said JU president Dr. Kerry Romesburg. "Artis has meant so much to the University, from his days as a student-athlete to his current position with the school that it thrills everyone to see him receive this prestigious honor and to take his place among the best in the history that have ever played basketball."




Standing at 7-foot-2, Gilmore teamed up with the 7-foot tall Pembrook Burrows to form the tallest front line in America for the 1969-70 season. Joined by JU legends Rex Morgan, Vaughn Wedeking, Rod McIntyre and a cast of others, the Dolphins went on an unprecedented run to the national title game.




His legend grew with each game - whether it was scoring, rebounding or blocking shots. In just two years at JU, Gilmore scored more than 1,200 points, set the school record with more than 1,000 rebounds and blocked more than 300 shots - recording at least 12 triple-doubles in his career.




Today, Gilmore remains the all-time leader in NCAA history for rebounds per game average for a career at 22.7 - a record that has stood for 40 years.

croz24
04-04-2011, 03:00 PM
lmao. rodman and freaking chris mullin in before reggie? what a ****ing joke!

Rogco
04-04-2011, 03:15 PM
All of those people in before Slick? I think the committee is made up entirely of red auerbach clones. *******s.

Naptown_Seth
04-04-2011, 03:23 PM
At least Gilmore finally got in.

Eleazar
04-04-2011, 03:36 PM
I don't disagree with Rodman and Mullins being in the Hall of Fame, but I do disagree with them being in without Reggie.

Kid Minneapolis
04-04-2011, 03:50 PM
I don't disagree with Rodman in the Hall, as crazy as he is. He's the best rebounder this game has ever seen. He won 5 rings. That's a duh to me.

Mullin getting in, however, gives me hope that someday Reggie will be in... because Mullin's achievements aren't much different on the whole.

gummy
04-04-2011, 04:00 PM
I'm glad Dennis got in. It's nice to see someone get accolades based on defense and rebounding prowess.

Cactus Jax
04-04-2011, 04:53 PM
Yeah it gives hope that Reggie will probably make the hall next year unless there's some big new names that I'm not sure of.

If Satch Sanders made the hall of fame so should Robert Horry. I mean if we're counting based off rings, Horry won 6 of them in a much more congested league and made many a game winning shot when needed.

Kstat
04-04-2011, 06:03 PM
I hate to say it, but it does open the door, although Satch's 8 rings trumps Horry's 6.

Only 2 guys in the history of the NBA have won more.

1984
04-04-2011, 06:35 PM
Someone tell me how Mullin beat Miller out.

Slick Pinkham
04-04-2011, 06:44 PM
Someone tell me how Mullin beat Miller out.

It must be based upon a much more highly regarded college career.

His NBA peak was arguably better than Reggie's, but longevity should count for something, and Reggie was very good for much longer.

cinotimz
04-04-2011, 07:13 PM
Its now official. The Hall should be renamed.

Hall of Infamy

ballism
04-04-2011, 07:29 PM
Oh. Somehow I missed Sabonis name on final nominations list. I remember wondering here how they could exclude him unless it's NBA HOF.
Nice to hear.
Looks a fair list. Reggie should be in next year.

TMJ31
04-04-2011, 08:10 PM
Again, just a joke.

Happy for Mully & Gilmore, indifferent to Rodman...

Glad to see some random guy with 8,766 career points I've never heard of (who was a part of 8 Celtic championship teams - but obviously NOT as one of the key pieces in getting the championships) get in before Reggie...

Of course clearly also high school and collegiate womens coaches also deserve recognition ahead of one of the 90's NBA era's most recognizable, durable, storied and feared players.

Just a joke...

Not to diminish any of those people's careers or contributions to the basketball community... But to say they are more deserving than Reggie Miller?! LMAO!

ilive4sports
04-04-2011, 08:27 PM
Again, just a joke.

Happy for Mully & Gilmore, indifferent to Rodman...

Glad to see some random guy with 8,766 career points I've never heard of (who was a part of 8 Celtic championship teams - but obviously NOT as one of the key pieces in getting the championships) get in before Reggie...

Of course clearly also high school and collegiate womens coaches also deserve recognition ahead of one of the 90's NBA era's most recognizable, durable, storied and feared players.

Just a joke...

Not to diminish any of those people's careers or contributions to the basketball community... But to say they are more deserving than Reggie Miller?! LMAO!


Ummm you did completely diminish all of those people's careers and contributions. Its not the NBA HOF, its the basketball HOF. Just because they didn't do it in the NBA doesn't make them any less deserving than Reggie.

vnzla81
04-04-2011, 08:30 PM
Congratulations to Rodman, crazy guy but one of the toughest SOB's to ever play the game.

TMJ31
04-04-2011, 08:31 PM
Ummm you did completely diminish all of those people's careers and contributions. Its not the NBA HOF, its the basketball HOF. Just because they didn't do it in the NBA doesn't make them any less deserving than Reggie.

Well, I suppose we can agree to disagree.

Cactus Jax
04-04-2011, 08:38 PM
Ummm you did completely diminish all of those people's careers and contributions. Its not the NBA HOF, its the basketball HOF. Just because they didn't do it in the NBA doesn't make them any less deserving than Reggie.

I do think that they HoF goes a little overboard as far as its coaches and older player selections at times, but to completely ignore them would be dumb. That being said I think if Reggie is in next year then it kind of speaks to how dumb HoF voting is in the first place for any sport that only the truly great can get in year 1. That being said I don't think it's obvious that Reggie will get in next year.

Things that work in Reggie's favor: He's one of the highest scoring UCLA Bruins of all time. He's been in the NBA Conference Finals as a leader of a team 6 times. He won Gold Medals in 1994 (World Championship) and 1996 (Olympics).

Things that work against Reggie: Only 5 all-star games, yes it was tough but 5 is still a pretty small number for a non-championship winning canidate. Low NBA scoring average; his first couple and last few years ruin this number a bit but still 19 ppg is pretty low for a HoF. Also, he only won 1 out of those 6 ECF apperances.

Cactus Jax
04-04-2011, 08:41 PM
The sad thing is that if he would've taken the bench role, did a decent job and won that NBA title for the Celtics in 07/08, to me he would've been a first ballot HoF'er that's how much I think a championship matters, over loyalty.

Kstat
04-04-2011, 09:10 PM
that's sour grapes. Ask Mitch Richmond how much his ring from 2001 as a 12th man helped him. People aren't that stupid.

Also, nobody outside of Indiana is buying the loyalty bit. Reggie used impending free agency as leverage to get paid every time his chance was up. There were no hometown discounts. He'd tell Donnie pay me what I want or next season I'll come to town in a Knicks uniform.

It's a neat thing when a player plays his whole career for one team in one city. I just don't think it was out of loyalty.

Major Cold
04-04-2011, 09:53 PM
Folks it is easy to ask for Reggie. But one Pacer deserves it more.

SLICK!!!! This is a joke.

Diamond Dave
04-04-2011, 10:45 PM
I'm just glad to see Sabonis in there. It is a true tragedy that us here in the US did not get to see this guy play till late in his career. A one of a kind talent. I truly believe that had he spent his entire career in the NBA he would be ranked in the top 5 centers of all-time.

Kstat
04-05-2011, 12:12 AM
He does forever have his youtube highlight of him toying with david robinson in his 20's....

dal9
04-05-2011, 12:12 AM
they took ourrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr jobbbss...


er, spots in the hall of fame


<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ijEnKY3Eyvo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peck
04-05-2011, 03:37 AM
At long last one of the most glaring omissions from the HoF will be rectified.

Long Live The A-Train!!!!!!

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0805/history.may21/images/017061813.jpg

Richard_Skull
04-05-2011, 04:12 AM
First, Congrats to Mullins, Rodman, and Sabonis.

Second, Robert Horry won 7 rings, 2 w/Rockets, 3 Lakers, 2 Spurs. And the only non Celtic (everyone tied or above him wore green for all of them).

Third, Too many Pacers fans overate Miller. Miller didn't deserve first ballot honors, and really is a fringe player to make it at all. Not saying there isn't people less deserving in the hall(after all, the hall is a joke).

Forth, If anyone thinks that Rodman doesn't deserve to be in or to be over Reggie must be crazy (as crazy as Rodman maybe). He's one of the best defenders(2 DPY and 7 first team def and 1 2nd team) and rebounders (he averaged 18.7 while playing 82 games one season and averaged over 16 in his prime) in Basket ball history, was the 3rd best player on arguably the best team ever. And oh yea, 5 championships with 2 teams.

grace
04-05-2011, 11:20 AM
Chris Mullin before Reggie. Biggest crock of :censored: I've ever seen. :shakehead

Isaac
04-05-2011, 01:54 PM
Everyone keeps saying Mullin over Reggie, but that's not relevant. Chris Mullin retired 10 years ago and Reggie only 6. Reggie will get in in less years than it took Mullin because he is a more deserving candidate, but the amount of time you've waited is taken in to account for the hall. Reggie wasn't a first ballot hall of famer, but he's likely second or third ballot.

Artis Gilmore- way overdue.

15th parallel
04-05-2011, 02:09 PM
Everyone keeps saying Mullin over Reggie, but that's not relevant. Chris Mullin retired 10 years ago and Reggie only 6. Reggie will get in in less years than it took Mullin because he is a more deserving candidate, but the amount of time you've waited is taken in to account for the hall. Reggie wasn't a first ballot hall of famer, but he's likely second or third ballot.

Artis Gilmore- way overdue.

This is the problem with the system of the Hall. If the player is deserving, he should get in regardless of when he's retired. I mean, what's the bearing of being retired 10 years ago as opposed to being retired 6 years ago? He's (Reggie) already in the consideration, and is widely recognized by his colleagues in the business, so if the requirement is "he should be retired this long" is shallow if you ask me.

Congratulations to the new HOFs. Mullin, Artis, Sabonis and Rodman really deserved to be there.

As for those who are saying that Rodman is not deserving, well let's not be blindsided by his off-court antics. He was the best of the best in rebounding and defense (he has successfully guarded guards like Jordan to a top-notch PFs and Cs like Malone and Shaq). He maybe one-dimensional, but he's so great at his one-dimensional skill. Plus, he's been an integral part of the 5 championships his teams had. It's not like he was just some 10-12th man who played sparingly to hack somebody from the opposing team.

Cactus Jax
04-05-2011, 04:40 PM
Second, Robert Horry won 7 rings, 2 w/Rockets, 3 Lakers, 2 Spurs. And the only non Celtic (everyone tied or above him wore green for all of them).


Well him having 7 should almost definently make him into the hall if Satch could make it with 8. To me winning 7 with different teams in different roles, in different times in his career is really tough, I think I forgot his last championship with the Spurs because he barely played besides cheap-shotting Nash.

But to me there's no doubt he should get in with 7 titles in this type of league, as you said, it's the most by any non-Celtic player.

Isaac
04-05-2011, 04:40 PM
This is the problem with the system of the Hall. If the player is deserving, he should get in regardless of when he's retired. I mean, what's the bearing of being retired 10 years ago as opposed to being retired 6 years ago? He's (Reggie) already in the consideration, and is widely recognized by his colleagues in the business, so if the requirement is "he should be retired this long" is shallow if you ask me.

Agree to disagree. I think it's a fair system, a guy like Mullin deserves to be in the hall, but doesn't deserve to be mentioned with first ballot hofers. When you talk about the hall of fame, and players who are enshrined in it, I think it's fine to have something quantitative to tell you, ok Michael Jordan got in on his first try, and Reggie on his second. Both deserve to be recognized, but Michael earned the right to wait a year less than Reggie.

TMJ31
04-05-2011, 07:14 PM
...I think it's a fair system... When you talk about the hall of fame, and players who are enshrined in it, I think it's fine to have something quantitative to tell you, ok Michael Jordan got in on his first try, and Reggie on his second. Both deserve to be recognized, but Michael earned the right to wait a year less than Reggie.


Ai ai ai...

This is exactly the thing that makes the HoF an UN-fair sham of an institution.

Oh... "So and so" (who has been retired for a number of years) didn't deserve to be in it LAST year, but THIS year it's a totally new ballgame let me tell you!

It's a ridiculous and insanely biased double standard.

Look at this year for example:

Satch Sanders was a member of 8 Celtic championship teams.

He has a career total of 8,766 points. Now I am not a big Celtics historian, and I am not discounting that he may have been a "Jeff Foster" type player for those Celtic teams... But I highly doubt that he was a significant difference maker in all (if any) of those championship teams with his career numbers looking the way they look. Again I could be mistaken, but this is just an observation based on NUMBERS (which is apparently all the HoF cares about)

So you are honestly telling me that this guy deserves to be inducted into the hall this year over a player like Reggie Miller??!?!?

I don't care if Satch has been eligible for 1 year or 100... There is NO way to justify admitting him and excluding a player like Reggie Miller or a figure like Slick Leonard.

Hell, if we are admitting players for being marginal players on a ton of championship teams, why haven't Luc Longley and Bill Wennington been inducted. BJ Armstrong perhaps? Rick Fox?! DEVEAN GEORGE?!?!?!

When will this insanity end?

Players like Reggie not getting in for X number of years due to this political BS posturing where some enigmatic entity deems them "unworthy until they've waited sufficiently" is flat out WRONG.

Sandman21
04-05-2011, 07:22 PM
Instead of inducting Sanders as an individual, why not just induct those Celtic teams as a squad ala Dream Team 1?

TMJ31
04-05-2011, 07:22 PM
Instead of inducting Sanders as an individual, why not just induct those Celtic teams as a squad ala Dream Team 1?

See now that actually would make some sense.

ilive4sports
04-05-2011, 07:39 PM
Ai ai ai...

This is exactly the thing that makes the HoF an UN-fair sham of an institution.

Oh... "So and so" (who has been retired for a number of years) didn't deserve to be in it LAST year, but THIS year it's a totally new ballgame let me tell you!

It's a ridiculous and insanely biased double standard.

Look at this year for example:

Satch Sanders was a member of 8 Celtic championship teams.

He has a career total of 8,766 points. Now I am not a big Celtics historian, and I am not discounting that he may have been a "Jeff Foster" type player for those Celtic teams... But I highly doubt that he was a significant difference maker in all (if any) of those championship teams with his career numbers looking the way they look. Again I could be mistaken, but this is just an observation based on NUMBERS (which is apparently all the HoF cares about)

So you are honestly telling me that this guy deserves to be inducted into the hall this year over a player like Reggie Miller??!?!?

I don't care if Satch has been eligible for 1 year or 100... There is NO way to justify admitting him and excluding a player like Reggie Miller or a figure like Slick Leonard.

Hell, if we are admitting players for being marginal players on a ton of championship teams, why haven't Luc Longley and Bill Wennington been inducted. BJ Armstrong perhaps? Rick Fox?! DEVEAN GEORGE?!?!?!

When will this insanity end?

Players like Reggie not getting in for X number of years due to this political BS posturing where some enigmatic entity deems them "unworthy until they've waited sufficiently" is flat out WRONG.

You do realize this is how every HOF works and has been that way forever right? Its not like the basketball HOF is the first to do it and just started. And I think it is perfectly fine to define a player as a first ballot HOF'er or not. Reggie wasn't on the same level as MJ, Malone and so on. Why should he be recognized as if he was?

And you don't know much about Satch do you? Sure he wasn't a big scorer, but there is much more to the game than basketball. Do some research on the guy before you just go and call him a marginal player. The man was best known for his defense. He won 8 rings, which is the third most all time. He was viewed as a key piece on the Celtics and has his number retired by the franchise. Not to mention he played in 450 consecutive games.

TMJ31
04-05-2011, 07:56 PM
You do realize this is how every HOF works and has been that way forever right? Its not like the basketball HOF is the first to do it and just started. And I think it is perfectly fine to define a player as a first ballot HOF'er or not. Reggie wasn't on the same level as MJ, Malone and so on. Why should he be recognized as if he was?


Of course I realize this. However, since we are talking about the basketball HoF, I don't really think mentioning the others is relevant.

Furthermore, just because "all the rest do it too" does not make it the right thing to do.

And to address your other point... The HoF does NOT "Define" what makes a first ballot HoF'er and what does not... It's all 'cloak and dagger' secret-society politics.
The public never knows how or why certain people are chosen or not chosen.

Just look at what happened with Reggie... His lack of inclusion on the finalist ballot was leading news on all the sporting websites and tv shows, because it was such a
shocking event for anyone who knows anything about basketball...

So no, they don't "Define" anything.



And you don't know much about Satch do you? Sure he wasn't a big scorer, but there is much more to the game than basketball. Do some research on the guy before you just go and call him a marginal player. The man was best known for his defense. He won 8 rings, which is the third most all time. He was viewed as a key piece on the Celtics and has his number retired by the franchise. Not to mention he played in 450 consecutive games.

Nope, as I said directly in my post, I don't...

I have no doubt that he was known for his defense since his offensive stats are mediocre at best. Ahhhhh, well you make a good observation that his number is retired by the almighty Celtics...

So following this logic, maybe we should retire Dale Davis and even Jeff Foster's numbers... Then maybe the hall will come calling for them too... OH WAIT, I forgot, those guys haven't been a part of any championship teams so their impact on their teams is meaningless and completely moot. :rolleyes:

Reggie's number is retired here because he was the face, heart and soul of the Indiana Pacers for a very, VERY long time. Not only that, but his play on the court single-handedly brought Indiana Pacers basketball from a bottom-feeder of an NBA franchise into a perennial contender.

NOT only that, but his clutch playoff moments are literally the thing of legend in the game of basketball. Reggie Miller has not one, not two, but MANY individual plays that will live on in NBA lore for generations to come. The same cannot be said for many other players, even many who are already enshrined IN the Hall of Fame.

But Reggie never won a championship despite carrying his team deep into the playoffs many times. So I guess this means that all of his accomplishments lose 75% or more of their "Hall Deserving-Ness" potency, right?

See what I am saying? It's such a convoluted system. A good suggestion was just made here on the thread. Induct that entire Celtics team AS a team. They had an amazing run, no arguing that. Induct them as a team and honor them for their teams accomplishments. Don't go throwing every player in regardless of their qualifications ASIDE from their place on that team.

I don't care how many games he played in a row, or how many championship teams he was the "Jeff Foster" of... That should not earn him an (INDIVIDUAL) place in the Hall of Fame over Reggie Miller.

ilive4sports
04-05-2011, 10:47 PM
Yeah let's put Dale and Foster in because they were key components in helping the Pacers win 8, I mean 5, I mean oh wait, 0 titles. Don't over look the fact that Satch has won the third most NBA championships out of every player in the NBA's history. Dale Davis being a defensive player on a team that went to one nba finals and lost is no where near Satch being a great defensive player and winning 8 championships. He won 8 ****ing championships. Helping your team win one is one thing, but helping them win 8 is a completely different story. Kobe is the only guy that might come close to that. I don't think we will ever see anyone hit that number again. Don't sell the man short because he didn't score 20,000 points. You know for a fact that winning championships, especially multiple, especially 8, is going to put you in a much better light than someone who has the same stats and didn't win one. There is more to the game than stats man. A fan of Reggie should know this considering his stats aren't that special. What made him special were his clutch moments. What made Satch special is his defense and helping his team win 8 championships.

It is clear the HOF likes players who win championships. Satch getting in has absolutely nothing to do with Reggie. It wasn't him or Reggie. The HOF can never "define" what a first ballot HOF player is because of how much the game changes from era to era. Its completely subjective. You can't come up with a fair formula to judge players over the history of the NBA. But by electing what players from each era get first ballot and which ones don't they do "define" what a first ballot player is. Not many players make it on the first ballot. It isn't a slight imo to not make it first ballot. It's more of an honor because that truly means you were one of the best of the best. Reggie was not one of the best of the best. He wasn't in the same class as MJ, Malone, Barkley, Stockton and so on. He was in the group below that. Mentioning the others is relevant because it shows thats how HOF's work.

Here is a question for you. Is Donovan McNabb a HOF football player? Especially first ballot? Because if Reggie Miller is a first ballot HOF, Donovan McNabb better be on that first ballot too. But he wont be, largely because he hasn't won an title. And he is a fringe ballot guy as of right now.

Kstat
04-06-2011, 12:04 AM
It should be noted that Satch was the guy guarding West, Baylor and Pettit in the playoffs every year. He took on a hall of fame forward almost every night.

threein73
04-07-2011, 10:55 AM
I sure hope Gilmore goes in as a Kentucky Colonel!

Swish
04-07-2011, 11:29 AM
At long last one of the most glaring omissions from the HoF will be rectified.

Long Live The A-Train!!!!!!

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0805/history.may21/images/017061813.jpg

Wow, he's tall. Did they have to skin a horse to make that coat??

Peck
04-07-2011, 02:57 PM
I sure hope Gilmore goes in as a Kentucky Colonel!

Wow, I never thought about that.

Man that would be sweet.

ballism
04-07-2011, 03:17 PM
I sure hope Gilmore goes in as a Kentucky Colonel!

And Sabonis goes with USSR or retro Zalgiris (his original team) uniform!

BillS
04-07-2011, 03:20 PM
Wow, I never thought about that.

Man that would be sweet.

I'd be surprised, I suspect it will be as either a Bull or a Spur. After all, NBA All-Star trumps ABA All-time :cry:

1984
04-07-2011, 08:10 PM
Did Gilmore, Mullin, and Sabonis ever do this?

http://images.zap2it.com/images/tv-EP00040591/hangin-with-mr-cooper.jpg

Game. Set. Match.

pacerwaala
04-07-2011, 09:51 PM
that's sour grapes. Ask Mitch Richmond how much his ring from 2001 as a 12th man helped him. People aren't that stupid.

Also, nobody outside of Indiana is buying the loyalty bit. Reggie used impending free agency as leverage to get paid every time his chance was up. There were no hometown discounts. He'd tell Donnie pay me what I want or next season I'll come to town in a Knicks uniform.

It's a neat thing when a player plays his whole career for one team in one city. I just don't think it was out of loyalty.

I think you are overanalyzing and jumping to conclusions without adequate/accurate information. The fact of the matter is that he played for one team for 18 years which is the only thing we know for sure. If you dissect each and every decison, especially without knowing the facts, I am sure you can find something or the other to suit an argument. There are lot of things that happen during negotiations, but it probably also has something to do with an intention and desire to stay in Indiana.

Example - The Pistons won the championship in 2004, people overanalyze and say they won because Kobe and Shaq were fighting, Joe D stole Rasheed Wallace for nothing, they won because they did not have injuries, it is a fluke, etc, etc. I disagree with all that overanalysis - they won, they were the champions, they were the best team that year, they worked hard to be injury free (Arnie Kander was doing his job the best possible way)that is it. Keep it simple and look at the result and give credit.

IMHO, it is simpler when we take things for what they are than overanalyze without all the facts. I also think Rodman should be easily ahead of Reggie for the HOF selection, I am not sure about Mullin though.