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View Full Version : Bill Simmons suggests Hibbert + Posey for Oden+1st S&T



HeliumFear
04-01-2011, 04:36 PM
Article by Bill Simmons

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110401&sportCat=nba


THE PLAYOFF JOBBER

18. Indiana Pacers
Danny Granger, Roy Hibbert, Darren Collison, Tyler Hansbrough, Paul George, Brandon Rush and some summer cap space not a bad foundation. That's two-thirds of a perennial playoff team. Still, it's a small-market team with short pockets; they're never signing a marquee free agent, which means they have to get creative and roll the dice. You know, with something like the following post-lockout deal: Hibbert and James Posey (expiring in 2012) in a sign-and-trade for Greg Oden and a future No. 1 pick.

Portland turns Oden into a solid 7-footer (Hibbert, past 2 months: 50% FG, 13.2 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 1.8 bpg) who can definitely stay on the court. Oden gets away from Portland (too much baggage, too many bad memories), goes home to Indiana (where he'll have the longest leash possible) and gets a fresh start. And the Pacers give him a four-year, $40 million extension and get their dice roll; if Oden stays healthy, they just stumbled onto a franchise center. How else would they get one? And can you think of anyone who needs a change of scenery more than Oden? I hope this happens. Uh-oh -- I think I just exploded the Blazer's Edge message board.

He does make good points that we likely will never attract a big time FA and will have to get 'lucky'...

MillerTime
04-01-2011, 04:39 PM
HEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO

Thats a horrible trade

ilive4sports
04-01-2011, 04:41 PM
I like Greg Oden, but the chances of him ever being able to play a whole season are less than my chances to sleep with Brooklyn Decker. This would be a horrible trade.

SMosley21
04-01-2011, 04:42 PM
HEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO

Thats a horrible trade

It's only a horrible trade if Oden doesn't get healthy. A healthy Oden is twice the player that Hibbert is. The guy has the ability to be the best defensive big man in the NBA if he can stay on the court.

vnzla81
04-01-2011, 04:44 PM
Worse trade idea ever, he needs to stop doing drugs.

MillerTime
04-01-2011, 04:44 PM
It's only a horrible trade if Oden doesn't get healthy. A healthy Oden is twice the player that Hibbert is. The guy has the ability to be the best defensive big man in the NBA if he can stay on the court.

Im sure thats obvious to anyone.

I would never risk trading Hibbert after the lack of luck that Oden has had.

HeliumFear
04-01-2011, 04:48 PM
It would be a huge risk and history is against a player who's injured the first few seasons of his career staying healthy afterwards.

But at the same time,Oden could be a legitimate franchise player if he were to turn it around,and we would be contenders with him.

ilive4sports
04-01-2011, 04:49 PM
It's only a horrible trade if Oden doesn't get healthy. A healthy Oden is twice the player that Hibbert is. The guy has the ability to be the best defensive big man in the NBA if he can stay on the court.

You say that like Oden being out this season is some sort of fluke. He has played 82 games in three seasons. I will take Hibbert for 95% of the games over Oden for 33% of the games, especially at $10 mil a year. Portland won't even pick up the option on his contract which is for less than that.

Sparhawk
04-01-2011, 04:50 PM
I love Hibbert, who has truly embraced this city. I want Hibbert to stay. But we need to help Hibbert out and get an athletic 4.

I'm pretty sure Atlanta is gonna have to unload some contracts after another disappointing playoffs. I'd love Josh Smith or Horford. Might be wishful thinking, but I really think Atlanta will want to shed one or the other. My money is that Atlanta wants to keep Horford.

BringJackBack
04-01-2011, 05:05 PM
Why the heck don't we just outright sign Oden in the offseason and keep Hibbert? :hmm:

pacergod2
04-01-2011, 05:08 PM
If we were going to extend Oden with a $40M, 4 year contract, why wouldn't we just sign him outright this summer for the same deal? That way we keep Hibbert. And the risk of Oden's injuries never getting better doesn't kill us, other than in our cap space.

Kaufman
04-01-2011, 05:23 PM
i wouldn't take anything but a minimum risk on oden. we call him bad protoplasm.

he's going to be difficult to insure (at least for anything other than a minimum). meaning if he gets hurt, no insurance company is going to pay out his contract, his team will be on the hook. a mid market team like the pacers won't like this idea.

is it impossible that he would come back from this and possibly even become an allstar? no. but i would guess 15% chance of that. but its really hard to say. there are a few historic examples of guys who do come back from injury - terry allen (nfl vikings/redskins/pats?) being the story that i used to refer injured athlete patients to.

IndyHoosier
04-01-2011, 05:28 PM
I like Oden & hope he will stay healthy some day but........HELLLLLLL NOOOOOO!!!!

Trophy
04-01-2011, 05:42 PM
:scared:

focused444
04-01-2011, 05:53 PM
Dear Bill Simmons, you have no idea of the pulse of the pacers organization. Please omit us from your future writings...

signed, Pacers fans...

vnzla81
04-01-2011, 05:58 PM
http://www.yardbarker.com/m/19063/xl/greg_oden.jpg

I would also say that I'm not sure if I want to take a chance on a guy that looks like 50, remember that old bones are easier to get injured :D

focused444
04-01-2011, 06:02 PM
I would also say that I'm not sure if I want to take a chance on a guy that looks like 50, remember that old bones are easier to get injured :D

haha, you know how doctors can administer testing to prove your actual body age not just years alive ? I would chip in to see this done to Oden.

cdash
04-01-2011, 06:20 PM
Why the heck don't we just outright sign Oden in the offseason and keep Hibbert? :hmm:

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but this is exactly what I want to do. Take a chance on him. I don't think 4 years/$40 million is good, but what about 2 years/$24 million? Since he's restricted that extra $$ might dissuade Portland from matching. Plus, it's a two year flier on a hometown guy with through the roof potential. If it doesn't work, darn, we swung for fences and missed. If it does, then we have two young centers who complement each other well and we have wiggle room to trade one of them and fill other holes on our roster.

speakout4
04-01-2011, 06:52 PM
These numbers are just ridiculous. Why any team would gamble on Oden with tens of millions of dollars is absurd? I would give him 5M max for 2 years and then when he shows he has a healthy upside consider a better contract. Oden has made many millions for the equivalent of one season so he needs to prove he deserves a contract based on more than just his never demonstrated potential.

cdash
04-01-2011, 07:14 PM
These numbers are just ridiculous. Why any team would gamble on Oden with tens of millions of dollars is absurd? I would give him 5M max for 2 years and then when he shows he has a healthy upside consider a better contract. Oden has made many millions for the equivalent of one season so he needs to prove he deserves a contract based on more than just his never demonstrated potential.

If only the NBA worked like that.

He actually has played really, really well when he has been healthy. Not a great offensive player, but his defense is game changing, and if he were healthy (an enormous if) his impact on defense would be near Dwight Howard-level. To me, that's worth a two year flier.

speakout4
04-01-2011, 07:45 PM
If only the NBA worked like that.

He actually has played really, really well when he has been healthy. Not a great offensive player, but his defense is game changing, and if he were healthy (an enormous if) his impact on defense would be near Dwight Howard-level. To me, that's worth a two year flier.
i would agree with you but we don't have a history of good fortune with some of these players--Bender, Tinsley, Ford; all money (>50 M) down the tubes with nothing in return. Try convincing Simon that he needs to take another flier.

Anthem
04-01-2011, 07:52 PM
I'd love to see us make a push for him.

But not a $12mil push. He's not worth being the highest-paid member of the team. I'm thinking a contract more like Foster's, at max.

mikeyism
04-01-2011, 08:06 PM
http://i.imgur.com/RN0ew.gif

QuickRelease
04-01-2011, 08:12 PM
Mr. Dolan...there's a Mr Thomas on line 1 with a max contract suggestion.

Brad8888
04-01-2011, 08:18 PM
:-o:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Bill Simmons is quite a writer of fictions and flights of fancy.

The Pacers get the second highest impact NBA player to ever come out of Lawrence North high school (I'd rather have Conley) plus a 1st in exchange for a guy who gives everything he has to be compliant with the demands of his coaching staff (the former O'Brien regime and the more sane Vogel) and the franchise on the whole while being very much concerned with his performance on and off the court because he cares about us as fans and worries about failing everyone almost to a fault, plus the cap space of getting rid of the last vestige of the O'Brien era thought process (idiocy) of the stretch 4.

No way is this even a consideration in my opinion.

1984
04-01-2011, 08:19 PM
I suggest we send a first round pick or bring Oden home when he becomes a FA.

croz24
04-01-2011, 08:20 PM
i wouldn't trade hibbert for oden, but i definitely want to go after him in the offseason. oden is young enough to bounce back from non-recurring injuries. many players have had the same microfracture knee surgery and come back fine.

cdash
04-01-2011, 08:23 PM
I'd love to see us make a push for him.

But not a $12mil push. He's not worth being the highest-paid member of the team. I'm thinking a contract more like Foster's, at max.

I agree, but the Blazers aren't going to let him walk away for nothing unless the price is just too high. They will put in a qualifying offer for him and if we offer him a two or three year deal at Foster money, then it will take them all of three seconds to match that contract (if Oden were to even sign a deal like that--which is doubtful). We have to overpay (grossly) to get him without doing a sign and trade. A two year contract won't hamstring us a great deal, even if he is way overpaid. $12 million probably is too much, but maybe $10 million could get it done. Not sure. Portland isn't going to let him walk unless they absolutely have to.

Justin Tyme
04-01-2011, 10:06 PM
This is absurd! Some want to pay 10-12 mil a year for a player who is injured so often he has played the equivelent of 1 year out of 3. You want to bet this type of money that a miraculous recovery is going to happen to Oden. I'm always amazed at those who like to spend Herb Simons money on an IF this, that, or whatever. You really think Herb Simon is going to sign off on a deal like that? He maybe old but he didn't ride into town on a turnip wagon.

I find it amazing the Pacers wouldn't trade fot Maggette at 8 mil a few years ago when their doctors examined his injury, which ended up being nothing, yet a sometimes walking Oden can command 10-12 mil on the chance he MIGHT recover. Ridiculous!!

cdash
04-01-2011, 10:14 PM
This is absurd! Some want to pay 10-12 mil a year for a player who is injured so often he has played the equivelent of 1 year out of 3. You want to bet this type of money that a miraculous recovery is going to happen to Oden. I'm always amazed at those who like to spend Herb Simons money on an IF this, that, or whatever. You really think Herb Simon is going to sign off on a deal like that? He maybe old but he didn't ride into town on a turnip wagon.

I find it amazing the Pacers wouldn't trade fot Maggette at 8 mil a few years ago when their doctors examined his injury, which ended up being nothing, yet a sometimes walking Oden can command 10-12 mil on the chance he MIGHT recover. Ridiculous!!

Hey, it's a risk. A huge risk. Hence, "swinging for the fences". But I'm proposing a short term contract at big money in the hopes that he does get healthy and live up to his massive potential. Let me state right now that I would not give him anything more than a two year contract. Three years only if the money went down by a lot.

Justin Tyme
04-01-2011, 10:22 PM
Hey, it's a risk. A huge risk. Hence, "swinging for the fences". But I'm proposing a short term contract at big money in the hopes that he does get healthy and live up to his massive potential. Let me state right now that I would not give him anything more than a two year contract. Three years only if the money went down by a lot.


Yes, it's more than a huge risk!! I don't see the Pacers tying up 12 mil of cap space each year for a constant medical injury prone player when they can use that money more wisely.

D-BONE
04-01-2011, 10:22 PM
Bill Simmons is a dumbass. This just proves it.

cdash
04-01-2011, 10:24 PM
Yes, it's more than a huge risk!! I don't see the Pacers tying up 12 mil of cap space each year for a constant medical injury prone player when they can use that money more wisely.

Well, what do you suggest then?

dohman
04-01-2011, 10:37 PM
That would be about as dumb as not taking Kevin durant with the first pick

KingGeorge
04-01-2011, 10:45 PM
I'm not sure which one is worse:

1. This is the worst trade idea I have ever seen.

or

2. Larry Bird is probably considering this as we speak.

The Rocker
04-01-2011, 11:06 PM
Posey and 1st for Oden

xIndyFan
04-01-2011, 11:12 PM
POR might not be able to match, depending on what the new CBA is. their cap space is like $68M or so. plus the rules about FA's will probably change also. since they have all that money invested in brandon roy and lamarcus aldridge, they are going to have cap problems. lots of if's and maybe's, but oden might be cheaper than we all think.

spreedom
04-01-2011, 11:59 PM
Bill Simmons is a dumbass. This just proves it.

Opposite of Thanks. Bill Simmons, while at times an annoying homer that only wants the Pacers to trade for white guys, is one of the most knowledgeable basketball minds in the media today in terms of historical perspective and his understanding of the league.

Plus, he's funny, and everyone loves a comedian.

cdash
04-02-2011, 12:03 AM
Opposite of Thanks. Bill Simmons, while at times an annoying homer that only wants the Pacers to trade for white guys, is one of the most knowledgeable basketball minds in the media today in terms of historical perspective and his understanding of the league.

Plus, he's funny, and everyone loves a comedian.

Yeah, I agree. He's a smartass and makes a lot of jokes, but he knows basketball extremely well. People may not like his humor and he is an admitted homer but I like his insights.

Wage
04-02-2011, 01:04 AM
Most expensive lottery ticket ever.

CableKC
04-02-2011, 03:06 AM
Hibbert is my choice for Center of the Pacers' future...so I think that we just need a backup Center to replace Foster. Unless Oden comes dirt cheap as a RFA......I'd rather make a run at Pryzbilla or overpay for Kris Humphries to backup Hibbert.

spazzxb
04-02-2011, 05:06 AM
Before he was even drafted people expected injuries. I am no export but having two different size legs can't be a good thing. I looked up this segment of article ,by Bill Simmons, from 2007 because it stuck with me and was the first thing I thought of when Odens injurys were mentioned.


"Anyway, when you see basketball players dressed in normal clothes, it's mesmerizing to watch them walk for two reasons: They're always much bigger in person, but they move so effortlessly that it's always strangely discombobulating to watch them walk, like they belong to another species or something. For instance, we all know one or two exceptionally tall people who don't play sports -- they always move gingerly, and their posture usually isn't that good, and everything about them says, "I wish I wasn't this tall." The best athletes in the NBA don't carry themselves like this. They glide. Everything moves effortlessly as they walk, and it's impossible to fully explain unless you've seen it. Even someone like Shaq glides across the room like he's the size of Steve Nash. They don't move like normal tall people.

So, before and after the show, I was vigilantly watching everyone stroll by for one reason: I wanted to see Oden and Durant walking in normal clothes. It was like the final piece of the "Durant vs. Oden" puzzle for me. As it turned out, I got to see Durant first -- he shuffled down the hallway, all 81 inches of him, looking like he was put on Earth to play sports for a living. No big surprise there. Even the biggest nonsports fan on the planet could watch Durant walk for 35 feet and think, "That guy was born to play basketball." Now, I needed Oden. We didn't see him before the show, and I didn't see him right afterward. Just when I was about to give up, a friend of mine said, "Yo, Oden just walked by."

I scurried down the hallway to see him. Lo and behold, Oden was walking by himself down the last stretch of the hallway, about 50 feet in all, right before the exit to head outside.


Blazers fans don't need any more reminders of the 1984 draft.
And you know what? He walked like a 50-year-old man. His posture was screwed up. He had the Fred Sanford walk going. If you saw him from behind and just studied his walk, you would have thought it was a retired player, someone like Patrick Ewing or Robert Parish. I couldn't believe it. I didn't stop talking about it the rest of the night. Greg Oden walked like a guy who had bad knees. If I were Portland's GM and watched Oden walk across the room, that would have been it for me. The next day, I even called my buddy Sully (who works for the Celtics) just to have the obligatory, "Yo, we might have dodged a bullet May 22; Greg Oden walks like a 50-year-old man" conversation.

Now, you could argue this is the single dumbest thing I've ever written, and you might even be right. Just know I have spent the past two months telling that Oden/ESPYS story to everyone who brought up the Oden-Durant thing to me. Sometimes in life, you just know with these things. And yeah, there's a chance he was already favoring his knee at the ESPYS, or he hurt his knee during summer league. There's also a chance his body doesn't carry its weight correctly and puts unnecessary stress on his legs and joints. ... You know, the exact same problem Sam Bowie had."

Whole article from 2007 here

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/entry?id=3017742&name=simmons

TheDon
04-02-2011, 05:46 AM
Why the heck don't we just outright sign Oden in the offseason and keep Hibbert? :hmm:

I find it amusing that our resident 17 year old thought of this and Simmons couldn't. That's not a shot at you BJB, it is at simmons though.

idioteque
04-02-2011, 08:43 AM
Yes, it's more than a huge risk!! I don't see the Pacers tying up 12 mil of cap space each year for a constant medical injury prone player when they can use that money more wisely.

$12 million each year? Try $12 million for two years only. That's a big difference. Do you not understand how awesome it would be to have a franchise center from Indiana on this team? Yes, it's a huge, huge risk, but the Pacers are never, ever going to have another chance to get a player that is a blend between Dwight Howard and David Robinson unless we win the lottery someday, and we both know that isn't happening.

D-BONE
04-02-2011, 09:20 AM
Yeah, I agree. He's a smartass and makes a lot of jokes, but he knows basketball extremely well. People may not like his humor and he is an admitted homer but I like his insights.

Point taken. I know many who enjoy his work. I can't get by the annoying homerism and inflated ego that seem to be a prerequisite to be part of the media these days.

Of course, one might say that he thinks this trade Roy for Oden BS is as much legit "insight" or "suggestion" as it is a part of his usual Pacers schtick. In that case, I'd say he sounds like he has no idea what he's talking about. What person with any knowledge of the league at this point in time would rationally say give up Hibbert to get a guy who's made of glass?

aceace
04-02-2011, 11:13 AM
The Pacers next year can afford to take a chance on Oden if it's a reasonable chance. I wouldn't be against 7m a year for 3 years but thats the ceiling. The extra ticket/tv sales from signing him would go a long way towards his salary. He's still young.

CableKC
04-02-2011, 11:25 AM
The Pacers next year can afford to take a chance on Oden if it's a reasonable chance. I wouldn't be against 7m a year for 3 years but thats the ceiling. The extra ticket/tv sales from signing him would go a long way towards his salary. He's still young.
Unless Insurance was willing to pay for a vast amount of that $21 mil contract....no way would I pay that much.

I can see $6 to 7 mil a year for a solid backup Center ( a la Foster ) and IF Oden was healthier, then I can agree....but the risk is too high just to take given the cost. I can consider it for $4 mil a year for 3 years...but $7 mil for a high risk Player like Oden....I'd pass.

DaveP63
04-02-2011, 11:28 AM
If, if, if, hope, hope, if, if. No thanks, too much risk.

docpaul
04-02-2011, 11:42 AM
I think the offseason market for Oden is going to be soft. Portland will recognize this and try to get some value out of him in a trade.

The fact that they didn't extend their number one pick is very telling, IMO. That leads me to think that his health is at some more serious long term risk.

He's being valued by Portland more like Kwame Brown or Michael Olowokandi.

grace
04-02-2011, 12:37 PM
Just another example that Bill Simmons has no :censored: idea what he's talking about!

Psyren
04-02-2011, 12:50 PM
Oden has the potential no doubt.

But with that injury history, absolutely, 100% no question about it, NO!

troyc11a
04-02-2011, 01:02 PM
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but this is exactly what I want to do. Take a chance on him. I don't think 4 years/$40 million is good, but what about 2 years/$24 million? Since he's restricted that extra $$ might dissuade Portland from matching. Plus, it's a two year flier on a hometown guy with through the roof potential. If it doesn't work, darn, we swung for fences and missed. If it does, then we have two young centers who complement each other well and we have wiggle room to trade one of them and fill other holes on our roster.

I agree with you! Let's try to get him. I would do the 4/40 though. It is a chance but the only thing we would be risking is cap space. If Oden doesnt work out then we still have Hibbert. If a change of scenery works for him, then we have one of the top Centers in the NBA for the next several years. We need enforcers on this soft team. The only player on this team who is not soft is Tyler. Tyler/Oden front court would give opponents nightmares. Nobody would want to play us!

Justin Tyme
04-02-2011, 03:49 PM
Well, what do you suggest then?


About what? I'm saying Oden isn't worth the risk at 10-12 mil. I'm not waving the white flag on Hibbert being the Pacers starting 5, yet. Hibbert has only played 3 years, and he's improved every year. Is he Howard, no, but he's better than what many other teams have with room to improve and grow.

I'm a FIRM believer you constantly look to upgrade at every position, and if an upgrade comes along that is reasonable you get the player. Oden hasn't done anything other than be injured in the NBA. He's not an upgrade, he's a down grade at the present time.

cdash
04-02-2011, 03:52 PM
About what? I'm saying Oden isn't worth the risk at 10-12 mil. I'm not waving the white flag on Hibbert being the Pacers starting 5, yet. Hibbert has only played 3 years, and he's improved every year. Is he Howard, no, but he's better than what many other teams have with room to improve and grow.

I'm a FIRM believer you constantly look to upgrade at every position, and if an upgrade comes along that is reasonable you get the player. Oden hasn't done anything other than be injured in the NBA. He's not an upgrade, he's a down grade at the present time.

What do you suggest we do with our cap space is what I was asking. Taking Oden out of the equation, I agree with Simmons that the Pacers need to get creative to get a high level player to come to Indy.

Justin Tyme
04-02-2011, 04:13 PM
$12 million each year? Try $12 million for two years only. That's a big difference. Do you not understand how awesome it would be to have a franchise center from Indiana on this team? Yes, it's a huge, huge risk, but the Pacers are never, ever going to have another chance to get a player that is a blend between Dwight Howard and David Robinson unless we win the lottery someday, and we both know that isn't happening.


Yes, I understand how awesome it would be if you knew for sure it would WORK. Do you understand how much money the Pacers spent on Bender, and it didn't work? You remember how many years fans and posters complained about it? THAT'S 12 MIL ON A WHIM GAMBLE! Like I said in an earlier post, "it's easy to spend someone else's money when you have nothing involved." Let's sit back and see how much money Portland is truly interested in spending on keeping Oden. They know his true medical background where as you and others don't, but you are willing to bet Herb's money on high risk gamble not knowing that medical history. Sorry, that is an extremely poor risk for Herb Simon to take when it's ALL HIS MONEY involved. Maggette was a better risk and TPTB passed on his injury.

cdash
04-02-2011, 04:22 PM
Yes, I understand how awesome it would be if you knew for sure it would WORK. Do you understand how much money the Pacers spent on Bender, and it didn't work? You remember how many years fans and posters complained about it? THAT'S 12 MIL ON A WHIM GAMBLE! Like I said in an earlier post, "it's easy to spend someone else's money when you have nothing involved." Let's sit back and see how much money Portland is truly interested in spending on keeping Oden. They know his true medical background where as you and others don't, but you are willing to bet Herb's money on high risk gamble not knowing that medical history. Sorry, that is an extremely poor risk for Herb Simon to take when it's ALL HIS MONEY involved. Maggette was a better risk and TPTB passed on his injury.

If you are going to play that game, then you could say it about every single player the Pacers pursue. It's not our money, no, but it's not our money paying Granger, Dunleavy, or anyone else either.

I don't understand how only Portland knows his true medical background. I thought it was pretty straightforward what happened to him each time. No mysterious injuries. I'm sure they know more than us fans do, but I think the information would be readily available to the Pacers front office if they wanted it.

I don't understand why you keep bringing up Corey Maggette. First, it was not a better risk there. Maggette is a run of the mill wing. There are plenty of Corey Maggettes in the league. Oden has a chance to be a Dwight Howard type of center, and we all know those don't grow on trees. Maggette might have been less of a risk, but the reward was a lot smaller too.

Justin Tyme
04-02-2011, 04:57 PM
If you are going to play that game, then you could say it about every single player the Pacers pursue. It's not our money, no, but it's not our money paying Granger, Dunleavy, or anyone else either.


EXACTLY, it's not your money PERIOD! With the current economy and the Pacers finanical situation, you are advocating that Herb spend 12 mil on a whim, hope, a hugh risk. The Pacers have waited 4 years to get cap space and be able to do something with it, and you want to spend it on another Bender! How did Walsh's experiment again with Bender workout in NY? Take the money and use it wisely to improve the team not throw use it on a POOR HIGH RISK GAMBLE!

Maggette 4-5 years ago wasn't a run-of-the-mill player. That same run of the mill player as you refer to him almost beat the Pacers in the 4th qtr last night. Lets see where Oden is in 4-5 years from now. IMO, he'll be where Bender is.... out of the league.

NO team b/c of privacy of info can revel the true extent of a players injury. It's against the law, so NO ONE other than a handful really know the full extent of his injury and the possible true out come. That ought to be pretty evident with Hans problem last year and thru the summer.

yoadknux
04-02-2011, 05:26 PM
I think Marcus Thornton is a safer gamble because
1) He's more proven, since he's actually playing...
2) Having a superstar center is nice, but usually not enough. Even if Oden turns into a superstar we'd not get that much better. Look at Orlando for example, they have the best center in the league with decent supporting cast, but aren't really contenders.

cdash
04-02-2011, 05:41 PM
EXACTLY, it's not your money PERIOD! With the current economy and the Pacers finanical situation, you are advocating that Herb spend 12 mil on a whim, hope, a hugh risk. The Pacers have waited 4 years to get cap space and be able to do something with it, and you want to spend it on another Bender! How did Walsh's experiment again with Bender workout in NY? Take the money and use it wisely to improve the team not throw use it on a POOR HIGH RISK GAMBLE!

Maggette 4-5 years ago wasn't a run-of-the-mill player. That same run of the mill player as you refer to him almost beat the Pacers in the 4th qtr last night. Lets see where Oden is in 4-5 years from now. IMO, he'll be where Bender is.... out of the league.

NO team b/c of privacy of info can revel the true extent of a players injury. It's against the law, so NO ONE other than a handful really know the full extent of his injury and the possible true out come. That ought to be pretty evident with Hans problem last year and thru the summer.

So if it's not our money, then you are advocating that we should not say who we want on the roster at all. We should just shut up and let Herb Simon do what he wants with the team. It's just a suggestion. Any time we throw out stuff like this, we are saying what we would do if it was our money and we were making the decisions.

Maggette has always been an above average wing. Those guys are a dime a dozen. So what if he almost beat the Pacers last night--lots of guys have done that this season.

If Greg Oden was interested in signing with the Pacers or any other team (and why wouldn't he be?), then it is within his right to allow the teams to view his medical records. It's not like the Blazers own this information and won't allow other teams to see it.

As I said earlier, this isn't a slam dunk. There is huge risk involved with it. The fact that it is a short term contract means even if he does stay hurt or makes a minimal impact, it won't cripple the team for years to come. It's a short term gamble. Again, I'm waiting to hear what you would like to do with our cap space. What options do you want to explore?

imbtyler
04-02-2011, 07:32 PM
I like Simmons' writing, he has talent. But I hate the guy because of his attitude. And his (like others') distaste for the Pacers.

Regardless, I'd be willing to bring in Oden for a little cash. I wouldn't intend on signing a max deal, and nothing more than 3 years. But if we can bring him in for some offseason practices, pending his health, and he shows that he is going to be worth the risk, I'd say go for it.

Maybe we can use some of our cap space to get his skeleton lined with metal like Wolverine. Wait, we should do that for everyone on the team...

BornReady
04-02-2011, 08:36 PM
this is a funny trade proposal :)

Justin Tyme
04-02-2011, 09:27 PM
So if it's not our money, then you are advocating that we should not say who we want on the roster at all.

Maggette has always been an above average wing.

Again, I'm waiting to hear what you would like to do with our cap space. What options do you want to explore?


NOT at all, I saying to quit throwing money around like it's Monoply money for someone else. I have always liked Jefferson and wanted him, BUT not with his salary of 14 & 15 mil the next 2 years. That type money can be better spent on a # of players.

Above average wings AREN'T a dime a dozen. Average to below average are.

I'm not advocating any specific players until a new CBA becomes effective in order to see what can be done.

Roaming Gnome
04-02-2011, 09:48 PM
Bill, just stick with the "Pacers/Bird only wants white guys" tired shtick because your trade proposal makes you look like a Blazers message board homer!

ksuttonjr76
04-03-2011, 02:01 PM
I wouldn't even trade S. Jones for Oden....

danman
04-03-2011, 03:07 PM
Dunno enough about the 2 microfracture surgeries. Do docs think:

1. Oden's knees will be as good/better than new?
2. Oden won't lose mobility.

Personally, I'm more inclined to keep Roy and find the right PF to start alongside.

1984
04-03-2011, 03:34 PM
Would your rather have Hakeem Olajuwon for 10 games a season or Rik Smits for 75 games a season? That is the comparison here. I'd rather have a dependable Chevy than a broken down Caddy any day of the week.

Gamble1
04-03-2011, 03:41 PM
NOT at all, I saying to quit throwing money around like it's Monoply money for someone else. I have always liked Jefferson and wanted him, BUT not with his salary of 14 & 15 mil the next 2 years. That type money can be better spent on a # of players.

Above average wings AREN'T a dime a dozen. Average to below average are.

I'm not advocating any specific players until a new CBA becomes effective in order to see what can be done.
First off I agree with the Oden take but Al is a different story. If we traded for AL he would be an upgrade and spending 14-15 million dollars on a # of players doesn't necessarily make this team better. YOu also have to consider that 14-15 million would also be extended over a longer period of time using your approach which could potentially hurt our future cap space.

It sounds like you are advocating slicing up 14-15 million into 3-4 sections and hoping that makes us a better overall team. The fact is we "need" to spend money for a starter period. We have fringe sixth man guys all over the place (Hans, Dun, Rush, Djones). To me Maggette has always been slightly above average but nothing that is going to put you over the top. The guy is sloppy with the ball and he is selfish as Djones. Gessh he as more TO's than assist his entire career.

imbtyler
04-03-2011, 03:52 PM
I wouldn't even trade S. Jones for Oden....

Are you kidding me? I'd trade Solomon Jones for Darko Milicic at this point.

ksuttonjr76
04-03-2011, 04:00 PM
Are you kidding me? I'd trade Solomon Jones for Darko Milicic at this point.

At least Darko plays. That was pretty much my point.

imbtyler
04-03-2011, 04:11 PM
At least Darko plays. That was pretty much my point.

Solo Jones doesn't play. Oden would be healthy enough for SOME time next season. And he wouldn't have to try impossibly hard (and fail) to earn it. Solo should've been in the D-League three months ago. And even then, he'd hardly get time.

DrFife
04-03-2011, 04:23 PM
Posey and 1st for Oden

My "big" wish is a three-way:

Oden (Portland) --> Indiana
Posey + #1 (Indiana) --> LA Clippers
Kaman (Clippers) --> Portland

Portland gets a still-good center they desperately need; Clips gain cap space and another pick; we essentially give up Posey (I know, darn), a mid-1st who likely will not contribute for a couple years, and $2 million for Oden. It's a gamble, for sure, but not a ridiculous one at all, in my opinion - giving up the "potential" of whomever we select this summer for the potential of a healthy Oden next year and beyond.

Peck
04-03-2011, 04:25 PM
My "big" wish is a three-way:

Oden (Portland) --> Indiana
Posey + #1 (Indiana) --> LA Clippers
Kaman (Clippers) --> Portland

Portland gets a still-good center they desperately need; Clips gain cap space and another pick; we essentially give up Posey (I know, darn), a mid-1st who likely will not contribute for a couple years, and $2 million for Oden. It's a gamble, for sure, but not a ridiculous one at all, in my opinion - giving up the "potential" of whomever we select this summer for the potential of a healthy Oden next year and beyond.

Now this would be an outstanding trade.

idioteque
04-03-2011, 04:29 PM
NOT at all, I saying to quit throwing money around like it's Monoply money for someone else. I have always liked Jefferson and wanted him, BUT not with his salary of 14 & 15 mil the next 2 years. That type money can be better spent on a # of players.

Above average wings AREN'T a dime a dozen. Average to below average are.

I'm not advocating any specific players until a new CBA becomes effective in order to see what can be done.

Why are you acting like we're arguing at a Tea Party Rally or something? You're acting like it's YOUR money. 12 million is a lot of money to us, but it's really not to an NBA owner that will have probably the lowest payroll in the league after our crappy contracts expire. If we were willing to eat the Murphleavy contracts for all of these years we're likely willing to take a gamble on Oden if we don't think there's a better way to spend the money. It's not an unreasonable proposal.

troyc11a
04-03-2011, 04:41 PM
Now this would be an outstanding trade.

For Indiana and LA. Portland would get screwed. But who cares about them anyway?

speakout4
04-03-2011, 04:49 PM
Why are you acting like we're arguing at a Tea Party Rally or something? You're acting like it's YOUR money. 12 million is a lot of money to us, but it's really not to an NBA owner that will have probably the lowest payroll in the league after our crappy contracts expire. If we were willing to eat the Murphleavy contracts for all of these years we're likely willing to take a gamble on Oden if we don't think there's a better way to spend the money. It's not an unreasonable proposal.
If Oden proves to be a bad deal with his health issues it will be starting all over in cap hell as if Murphy were back. No need to take on an unreasonable gamble that sets the clock back.

beast23
04-03-2011, 05:01 PM
I agree with you! Let's try to get him. I would do the 4/40 though. It is a chance but the only thing we would be risking is cap space.

Good gard....

You would not want Smith, who only has 2 years left on his contract and is an acknowledged excellent defender at his position. A couple of your arguments are that he is not what we need and that he eats too much into our cap space.

Instead, you want to dedicate 10M per year for 4 years to a center that may never be able to play more than a handful of games a year. Your logic... the only thing we would be risking is cap space.

Sir, your logic defies all sensibility and reason.

idioteque
04-03-2011, 05:03 PM
If Oden proves to be a bad deal with his health issues it will be starting all over in cap hell as if Murphy were back. No need to take on an unreasonable gamble that sets the clock back.

A two year deal can never put a team in cap hell for very long at all.

Again, there are risks here. Anyone thinks that we could sign a slam dunk player at 2/24 is hopelessly naive.

speakout4
04-03-2011, 05:30 PM
A two year deal can never put a team in cap hell for very long at all.

Again, there are risks here. Anyone thinks that we could sign a slam dunk player at 2/24 is hopelessly naive.
That's the problem--he is not a slam dunk player because we have no idea that he can remain on the court. Another single injury can wipe out both years.

Jared Sullinger
04-03-2011, 07:29 PM
I understand both sides of the Oden debate.

I understand not wanting to spend capspace and millions-of-dollars on a guy who's played 82 regular season games in four seasons.

I understand being extremely intrigued by, and willing to take a chance on, a guy who, in his limited playing time, has shown he can be a dominant rebounder, shot blocker and defender, and who has a promising offensive game, too.

It'll come down to what his medical report is come July (or whenever this offseason's free agency will begin) and what it would take to sign him. If he's healed (or healing nicely) and can be signed to a reasonable short-term contract (say, 3/$25M), then I'd be all for signing him.

ksuttonjr76
04-03-2011, 07:39 PM
Point blank. I wouldn't waste my worst enemy's money on someone with his injury history. I rather overpaid for a productive player instead wasting money on someone we KNOW has an injury history.

Future_NBA_Player
04-04-2011, 08:14 AM
Article by Bill Simmons

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110401&sportCat=nba



He does make good points that we likely will never attract a big time FA and will have to get 'lucky'...

If I had Oden and Hibbert on the same team and both were healthy, I would play Hibbert over him any given day. TERRIBLE TRADE

graphic-er
04-04-2011, 08:59 AM
I'd take Oden and make him a starter immediately, that guy plays defense and rebounds very well. We just don't have that with any of our starting big men, and Foster is still effective but you can tell he has fallen off alot.

It would be a gamble to sign him. But he could also potentially bring Eric Gordon here as well, as they were on the same AAU team together, which was one of the greatest AAU squads ever if I recall.

Look if you think Indianapolis has a hard time signing FA's then it makes sense to go after the home grown Indiana talent, especially since there has been so much talent coming from this state for the last decade.
A. They wouldn't mind playing here with all their family and friends, and B they probably grew up watching the Pacers.

I think it would be interesting to see an all Indiana team playing for the Pacers, or mostly Indiana team.

My Ideal rotations would be.
Mike Conley/ Shelvin Mack (he is from Kentucky though, but went to Butler)
Eric Gordon/ George Hill
Danny Granger/ Gordon Hayward
McRoberts/Harangody/ Juan Johnson/ Matt Howard
Oden/ Foster