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vnzla81
03-30-2011, 09:21 PM
Nice way of taking care of business and beat the crappy team the Pistons are, MVP of the game for Mcbob.


Go Pacers :dance::dance:

pianoman
03-30-2011, 09:22 PM
Great effort by the team! Got sloppy at the end, but that second and third quarter run was just fun to watch...

Jared Sullinger
03-30-2011, 09:27 PM
Q.T. 3.14159265

KingGeorge
03-30-2011, 09:31 PM
Started to look a little ugly in the 4th, but a win is a win. Good to see JMac have a good game.

vnzla81
03-30-2011, 09:35 PM
So we got six games left right?

Dr. Hibbert
03-30-2011, 09:35 PM
His outside shot still leaves much to be desired, but I thought PG played better tonight than he has in recent games.

yoadknux
03-30-2011, 09:37 PM
Good W but I'm kinda surprised it ended this close. But that's a W.
Josh and DC had an outstanding game. I just hope DC keeps playing like this and not regress like he did earlier in the season. I also think AJ and Foster were both great off the bench.
Glad Roy didn't get seriously injured, he didn't fall really well.
And looks like March is finally over, and hopefully Granger's horrible slump ends with it. 18.9 ppg, 37% from the field, 34% from 3... If you've watched this game you have probably seen it as well, he missed jumpers, airballed a wideeeeee open three... We can't have him like this in the playoffs

imbtyler
03-30-2011, 09:50 PM
I loved this game. It looked like everyone was giving effort out there (at least until the 4Q run by the Pistons), so that was nice. Josh McRoberts picked up a career-high 13 rebounds with 15 points, which was great. Would have been nice to see him pick up 6 more points for a career high there, too, but no greed necessary.

Josh had a couple dunks, one of them a sweet putback, and I heard Paul had a "sick alley-oop", so I'm hoping to find footage of any and all of them to post.

And despite all of my aforementioned hatred for Mike Dunleavy, it was actually nice to see him back on the court, until he started bricking shots in the second half. But his movement is incredibly encouraging, and his moderate veteranship is worth having.

I'm really excited for the playoffs this year, guys. We could actually do well.

Day-V
03-30-2011, 09:55 PM
*Awaits for half of Pacers Digest to get on and blame the 4th quarter on Darren Collison, even though he sat on the bench*

mildlysane
03-30-2011, 09:58 PM
Great game by McRoberts! PG looked real good as well. Collison seemed like he was on mission. Nice win.

15th parallel
03-30-2011, 10:00 PM
Some interesting stats of the night:

- Danny had a little subpar shooting tonight, but he has been active in getting steals. 4 steals tonight. I've seen him use his length recently to get steals. Hopefully he can continue this.

- Tyler had recently been on an offensive slump. But lately he's starting to pass more to get assists. A little improvced offensive awareness perhaps?

- DC carried the team offensively, which is a good sign that he's getting his shots on the past 2 games. Although a little wierd that he only got 3 assists. If he's getting his shots I guess we can take that his assists usually drop.

- JMac has a back-to-back good games. Co-best player of the game together with DC. 15 points, 13 rebounds. Nice. Hopefully he'll be scoring well off the bench on a consistent basis (it's been the problem of the bench as of late).

pwee31
03-30-2011, 10:02 PM
Really wish the Bobcats would have lost tonight. Friday is super important! We play the Bucks, and the Bobcats play at Orlando.

A win puts us up 4 on the Bucks with 5 to play and we have the tiebreaker. A win and loss by the Bobcats puts us up 2 on them with 5 to play and a tiebreaker over them as well.

A loss and Bucks are only down 2 with the tiebreaker over us. Bobcats win and we're tied... with tiebreaker, loss and Bobcats loss and still up a game.


nail biting

Trophy
03-30-2011, 10:03 PM
Probably Josh's best game in his career.

He was all over the boards and boxing out.

Good all around team game tonight. Lets keep that going.

Mike's offensive game was definitely missed.

We must play our absolute best Friday night. Luckily, the Bobcats have the Magic who have done pretty well.

PaceBalls
03-30-2011, 10:06 PM
It was great to see DC playing with purpose.

Josh played amazing.

I haven't been a Mike D fan in the past, but I am now. We really missed him and the second he entered the game the offense ran so much better.

dohman
03-30-2011, 10:15 PM
Mcbob looked like a mix fosters hustle and joshs athletic ability.

MaHa3000
03-30-2011, 10:27 PM
I hope Josh is here for a long time. I don't want O.J. Mayo.

Naptown_Seth
03-30-2011, 10:27 PM
Probably Josh's best game in his career.My problem with this is that it tells me quite a bit why people underrate Josh. Short term memory.

How about 14/12/2 with 2 blocks and 1 steal on 7-15 shooting vs the Wiz.

Oh, about how about the irrelevent game vs the Lakers
15/4/1 with 2 steals on 7 of 12 shooting

18/12/1 with a block and 2 steals on 8 of 9 vs Houston


I've got him at 8 five assist games this year, with a 6 and a 7 night in that list.

The Boston game a few weeks ago he was 14/11/3 with 1 block on 6 of 10

Win vs Chicago 20/8/0 with 2 blocks and 1 assist on 8 of 11 and all anyone noticed was him getting dunked on, which was not too bad IMO since he actually challenged the shot rather than hiding like a punk.

12/9/7 vs Charlotte gets him in range of a triple double.

He was 15/12/3 with 2 steals on 7 of 8 @ DETROIT in mid FEB. So the same kind of night against the same team.


But tonight he really showed something or maybe had his best game yet or a breakout game or whatever.

Sheesh. There is a reason I have a chip about this, it's getting old having people keep rediscovering the Josh is a pretty solid NBA player and capable of impacting games in a multitude of ways.

He doesn't have huge stats and doesn't typically walk away with double digit rebounds. But most nights you are at least going to get the assists or the rebounds or some points or a few blocks or steals. It's rare that he leaves the team empty.

You run him out for 20-30 minutes and you are going to be glad you did most nights.

Kstat
03-30-2011, 10:49 PM
the game was over when monroe checked out and maxiell checked in. Between Maxiell and CV, there was just no chance of ever getting a rebound against McRoberts and Foster.

Nice adjustment to put Collison on Hamilton. It limited the damage he gave up and allowed him to play freer on offense.

Trophy
03-30-2011, 10:49 PM
My problem with this is that it tells me quite a bit why people underrate Josh. Short term memory.

How about 14/12/2 with 2 blocks and 1 steal on 7-15 shooting vs the Wiz.

Oh, about how about the irrelevent game vs the Lakers
15/4/1 with 2 steals on 7 of 12 shooting

18/12/1 with a block and 2 steals on 8 of 9 vs Houston


I've got him at 8 five assist games this year, with a 6 and a 7 night in that list.

The Boston game a few weeks ago he was 14/11/3 with 1 block on 6 of 10

Win vs Chicago 20/8/0 with 2 blocks and 1 assist on 8 of 11 and all anyone noticed was him getting dunked on, which was not too bad IMO since he actually challenged the shot rather than hiding like a punk.

12/9/7 vs Charlotte gets him in range of a triple double.

He was 15/12/3 with 2 steals on 7 of 8 @ DETROIT in mid FEB. So the same kind of night against the same team.


But tonight he really showed something or maybe had his best game yet or a breakout game or whatever.

Sheesh. There is a reason I have a chip about this, it's getting old having people keep rediscovering the Josh is a pretty solid NBA player and capable of impacting games in a multitude of ways.

He doesn't have huge stats and doesn't typically walk away with double digit rebounds. But most nights you are at least going to get the assists or the rebounds or some points or a few blocks or steals. It's rare that he leaves the team empty.

You run him out for 20-30 minutes and you are going to be glad you did most nights.

I don't underrate Josh.

As far as rebounding/being active on the boards, this was his best game.

Yes he tied his career high of 12 boards, but 7 of them were offensive.

He's a hard working player who's solid and makes a strong presense every time he's out there whether he's scoring/rebounding or not, he's always out there bringing his energy.

It's also good to have him always stepping up if Tyler is having an off game like tonight.

I would like for Josh to remain here, but going back to that deadline deal, I'd still like for us to go after Mayo.

vnzla81
03-30-2011, 10:57 PM
I'm sorry Seth but the sample is not enough to make any conclusions, we need to see this for at least 30+ games and playing againts good teams not Detroit or Washington. Don't get me wrong nice and game an all but I need to see more and he needs to stop making stupid turnovers thinking he is playing the Washington generals.

thatch3232
03-30-2011, 11:01 PM
Hey guys, just a cool experience from the game tonight. My choir (Liberty Christian School HS Choir) sang the national anthem for the game tonight, and while we were lined up on the court the players were still warming up. So i jokingly asked AJ Price to toss me the ball so I could shoot a three, and he really threw it to me! Haha so i took a quick dribble, and shot a three... and drained it! haha nothin but net. So all the players were screamin and givin me high fives, and throughout the game AJ would talk to me and when he hit a three we pointed at each other haha.

Just wanted to share this with you guys. Pretty neat experience for a crazzzy big Pacer fan like me!

Go Pacers!

cdash
03-30-2011, 11:07 PM
My problem with this is that it tells me quite a bit why people underrate Josh. Short term memory.

How about 14/12/2 with 2 blocks and 1 steal on 7-15 shooting vs the Wiz.

Oh, about how about the irrelevent game vs the Lakers
15/4/1 with 2 steals on 7 of 12 shooting

18/12/1 with a block and 2 steals on 8 of 9 vs Houston


I've got him at 8 five assist games this year, with a 6 and a 7 night in that list.

The Boston game a few weeks ago he was 14/11/3 with 1 block on 6 of 10

Win vs Chicago 20/8/0 with 2 blocks and 1 assist on 8 of 11 and all anyone noticed was him getting dunked on, which was not too bad IMO since he actually challenged the shot rather than hiding like a punk.

12/9/7 vs Charlotte gets him in range of a triple double.

He was 15/12/3 with 2 steals on 7 of 8 @ DETROIT in mid FEB. So the same kind of night against the same team.


But tonight he really showed something or maybe had his best game yet or a breakout game or whatever.

Sheesh. There is a reason I have a chip about this, it's getting old having people keep rediscovering the Josh is a pretty solid NBA player and capable of impacting games in a multitude of ways.

He doesn't have huge stats and doesn't typically walk away with double digit rebounds. But most nights you are at least going to get the assists or the rebounds or some points or a few blocks or steals. It's rare that he leaves the team empty.

You run him out for 20-30 minutes and you are going to be glad you did most nights.

Even when people say something nice you have to get on your soapbox and scream his praises. You act like this was an egregious statement. The guy said "probably" and didn't ever insinuate that McRoberts hadn't had other good games. Relax.

graphic-er
03-30-2011, 11:09 PM
I'd just like to see Josh get alittle more physical on the Defensive end. He does not protect the paint very will for somebody with his size and athletic ability.

Sookie
03-30-2011, 11:14 PM
Good game from the team. We let up at the end, I think they all got passive, and it's pretty typical for a team to make a little run, but overall..it was essentially a blowout.

Really nice to see DC get his scoring touch back. Hopefully it continues.

Second unit will be interesting once they gell. Might still be too much perimeter offense, but the ball movement should be fantastic. (And it was at points tonight)

Anthem
03-30-2011, 11:29 PM
Really wish the Bobcats would have lost tonight. Friday is super important! We play the Bucks, and the Bobcats play at Orlando.

A win puts us up 4 on the Bucks with 5 to play and we have the tiebreaker.
Hmm... really? My calculations are that a Pacers win Friday puts Milwaukee out of the race. Let me go check.

EDIT: Whoops. I somehow thought that they only had six games left. With 8, their magic number is 5. But a win Friday is still worth 3 magic number points.

Cooper
03-30-2011, 11:50 PM
McRoberts creates space -wish they would let him take his man off the dribble more often.

Tyler has skills and he will improve, but McBob has a higher upside. Some of that upside differnece is due to skill set -McBob also has some age on his side. I know that McBob is probably gone this summer, but i really do beleive he could be the better player down the road.

joeyd
03-30-2011, 11:59 PM
Fun game to attend tonight. Great to see Josh do well. He seemed to instinctively be in the right place at the right time tonight, moving around very well.

I'm also glad to see TJ still with the team. Did I miss something? I thought the Pacers had let him go home.

Sookie
03-31-2011, 12:02 AM
Fun game to attend tonight. Great to see Josh do well. He seemed to instinctively be in the right place at the right time tonight, moving around very well.

I'm also glad to see TJ still with the team. Did I miss something? I thought the Pacers had let him go home.

The team never let him go. TJ just doesn't travel with the team.

ECKrueger
03-31-2011, 12:06 AM
Hey guys, just a cool experience from the game tonight. My choir (Liberty Christian School HS Choir) sang the national anthem for the game tonight, and while we were lined up on the court the players were still warming up. So i jokingly asked AJ Price to toss me the ball so I could shoot a three, and he really threw it to me! Haha so i took a quick dribble, and shot a three... and drained it! haha nothin but net. So all the players were screamin and givin me high fives, and throughout the game AJ would talk to me and when he hit a three we pointed at each other haha.

Just wanted to share this with you guys. Pretty neat experience for a crazzzy big Pacer fan like me!

Go Pacers!

Lucky, sounds awesome!

birdsandbats
03-31-2011, 12:14 AM
Loved watching Paul George play tonight. Was aggresive and is a really good passer. #1 thing I didn't like about starting him was that he lost all his aggression and was deferring to DC and Granger. Tonight he played with some passion and didn't just camp out.

Lord Helmet
03-31-2011, 12:17 AM
Good game, sloppy at the end, but a W is a W.

I really get tired of the Dunleavy hate, though. It's obvious he helps this team more than he hurts it. You ever see Rush with those kinds of passes? (No knock on Rush, just pointing out Dun is a plus for the team)

Hopefully big Roy is alright with that bruised knee. Have to keep winning like Sheen. Bucks and Bobcats both get W's tonight as well.

Hicks
03-31-2011, 12:28 AM
I'm glad we took care of business for a change.

I'll chime in about Josh's great game and how DC looked like early season DC tonight.

Tyler had a Roy-like assist early in the game tonight. Baby steps.

Paul obviously seemed to pick it up a bit tonight, but he really needs to think like a killer when he attacks the basket. He should be able to dunk on folks.

Mike was a noticeable addition tonight. He really does help with knowing where to be, when to be there, and what to do at any given moment. Is he perfect at it? No, but that was never the point. He makes a positive difference.

Speaking of Mike, a like him a LOT better as a backup 3 instead of a starting 2. Much, much more preferable situation. If the idea moving forward is to keep him as Danny's backup, I'd welcome re-signng him. Just please no more starting and no more time at the 2.

Will Galen
03-31-2011, 12:59 AM
Really wish the Bobcats would have lost tonight. Friday is super important! We play the Bucks, and the Bobcats play at Orlando.

A win puts us up 4 on the Bucks with 5 to play and we have the tiebreaker. A win and loss by the Bobcats puts us up 2 on them with 5 to play and a tiebreaker over them as well.

A loss and Bucks are only down 2 with the tiebreaker over us. Bobcats win and we're tied... with tiebreaker, loss and Bobcats loss and still up a game.


nail biting

Teams are never actually tied in the standings unless they have the exact same record. (I.E., having played the same amount of games) The games behind column isn't what you look at at this time of year, the lost column is. If Charlotte wins and we lose we will at that point have one more loss than Charlotte with four to play.

Record if we lose and Charlotte and Milwaukee both win Friday.
TEAM...........RECORD...GB
Charlotte......33-42......--.....with 7 to play
Indiana.........34-43.....--......with 5 to play.
Milwaukee.....31-44.....2.......with 7 to play


If the above happens then we will have put ourselves in the position of someone else having to beat Charlotte for us. If they win those extra two games, that puts us a game behind them, and if it stays that way . . . we're in the lottery.

The tiebeaker is only good if we have the same record.

Constellations
03-31-2011, 01:01 AM
Great game. I will say it for everyone, I was WRONG. I think Mike should remain in the 2nd unit. Him and Jeff's chemistry is solid and moves the offense beautifully which is exactly what the 2nd unit needed. <3 you Mike.

Merz
03-31-2011, 01:03 AM
Win vs Chicago 20/8/0 with 2 blocks and 1 assist on 8 of 11 and all anyone noticed was him getting dunked on, which was not too bad IMO since he actually challenged the shot rather than hiding like a punk.

The Pacers lost that game...unless the win is because it was the last game coached by he who should not be named.








So I agree. Good Win.

binarysolo
03-31-2011, 01:11 AM
The problem is we will at that point have one more loss than Charlotte. Then we will have put ourselves in the position of someone else having to beat Charlotte for us. If it doesn't happen . . . we're in the lottery.


When you are under .500, wins are more statistically significant than losses, and we have more wins than Charlotte. It is true that if they go undefeated, they will pass us, but that doesn't worry me. We have a sample of 75 games to tell us that Charlotte tends to lose more than they win.

Will Galen
03-31-2011, 01:31 AM
When you are under .500, wins are more statistically significant than losses, and we have more wins than Charlotte. It is true that if they go undefeated, they will pass us, but that doesn't worry me. We have a sample of 75 games to tell us that Charlotte tends to lose more than they win.

Those 75 games? Were they all played with the knowledge that the season is on the line?

And Charlotte doesn't have to go undefeated to pass us. If they win Friday and we lose, after that all they have to do is win the extra two games to pass us. After that all they have to do is match whatever we do.

The point I've been striving to make is we don't want to fall behind in the loss column. Then we need help!

Bball
03-31-2011, 01:33 AM
You run him out for 20-30 minutes and you are going to be glad you did most nights.

I like McRoberts' game and I'm also a little puzzled that he seems to be more underrated and underappreciated then I'd expect. If anything, I'd expect a player like him to be a fan favorite all the way around.... a mixture of the hometown boy does good along with the tag of 'potential'.

Riddle me this, why was Jonathon Bender raved about so much for being half the actual player McRoberts actually is?

cdash
03-31-2011, 01:40 AM
Riddle me this, why was Jonathon Bender raved about so much for being half the actual player McRoberts actually is?

Draft position and injury excuses, I'd guess.

beast23
03-31-2011, 01:42 AM
Riddle me this, why was Jonathon Bender raved about so much for being half the actual player McRoberts actually is?
I think that saying Bender was 1/2 the player Josh is gives Bender significantly too much credit. But then, you already knew that since we were on the same side of the fence with regards to the Bender debate.

Dr. Hibbert
03-31-2011, 01:59 AM
Riddle me this, why was Jonathon Bender raved about so much for being half the actual player McRoberts actually is?

Because Bender was 7'0 and took over games in the five minutes he was ever healthy per season. All things equal in health (i.e., if McBob and Bender were both healthy and Bender didn't have the knee defect), Bender would have had the better career. I'd say much better.

But, of course, he didn't. Never had the knees. So McBob did.

El Pacero
03-31-2011, 02:20 AM
Hey guys, just a cool experience from the game tonight. My choir (Liberty Christian School HS Choir) sang the national anthem for the game tonight, and while we were lined up on the court the players were still warming up. So i jokingly asked AJ Price to toss me the ball so I could shoot a three, and he really threw it to me! Haha so i took a quick dribble, and shot a three... and drained it! haha nothin but net. So all the players were screamin and givin me high fives, and throughout the game AJ would talk to me and when he hit a three we pointed at each other haha.

Just wanted to share this with you guys. Pretty neat experience for a crazzzy big Pacer fan like me!

Go Pacers!

Haha, this was a great story. You guys had a unique dissonant arrangement to change it up for once. Nice job and funny stuff.

Richard_Skull
03-31-2011, 02:24 AM
Good game by us sans the last 8 mins. Glad Dun Dun is in the 2nd unit and I figured it was going to be at DJ expense (so did many other here).

O.T.
I don't think we S&T McBob if we trade for Mayo, I honestly believe that Josh was just cap relief/Expiring for them and if there is a trade it would be for draft picks because we can just absorb salary. Sorry for the run-on sentence.

Bball
03-31-2011, 02:29 AM
Hey guys, just a cool experience from the game tonight. My choir (Liberty Christian School HS Choir) sang the national anthem for the game tonight, and while we were lined up on the court the players were still warming up. So i jokingly asked AJ Price to toss me the ball so I could shoot a three, and he really threw it to me! Haha so i took a quick dribble, and shot a three... and drained it! haha nothin but net. So all the players were screamin and givin me high fives, and throughout the game AJ would talk to me and when he hit a three we pointed at each other haha.

Just wanted to share this with you guys. Pretty neat experience for a crazzzy big Pacer fan like me!

Go Pacers!

Another assist for AJ. Sookie will be proud! ;)

Great story!

CableKC
03-31-2011, 02:46 AM
My problem with this is that it tells me quite a bit why people underrate Josh. Short term memory.

How about 14/12/2 with 2 blocks and 1 steal on 7-15 shooting vs the Wiz.

Oh, about how about the irrelevent game vs the Lakers
15/4/1 with 2 steals on 7 of 12 shooting

18/12/1 with a block and 2 steals on 8 of 9 vs Houston


I've got him at 8 five assist games this year, with a 6 and a 7 night in that list.

The Boston game a few weeks ago he was 14/11/3 with 1 block on 6 of 10

Win vs Chicago 20/8/0 with 2 blocks and 1 assist on 8 of 11 and all anyone noticed was him getting dunked on, which was not too bad IMO since he actually challenged the shot rather than hiding like a punk.

12/9/7 vs Charlotte gets him in range of a triple double.

He was 15/12/3 with 2 steals on 7 of 8 @ DETROIT in mid FEB. So the same kind of night against the same team.


But tonight he really showed something or maybe had his best game yet or a breakout game or whatever.

Sheesh. There is a reason I have a chip about this, it's getting old having people keep rediscovering the Josh is a pretty solid NBA player and capable of impacting games in a multitude of ways.

He doesn't have huge stats and doesn't typically walk away with double digit rebounds. But most nights you are at least going to get the assists or the rebounds or some points or a few blocks or steals. It's rare that he leaves the team empty.

You run him out for 20-30 minutes and you are going to be glad you did most nights.
Seth, I've been with you in regards to McBob and love all the little things that he does that no one really pays attention to. I am really glad that he played the way he did tonight.....he made a lot of smart plays, was very active and all over the place and most notably his rebounding was well above average. I am glad that Vogel has decided to have McBob handle the ball more as of late. But the one thing that really "grinds my gears" is that his rebounding rate isn't as high as it should be. What I can't figure out is why his rebounding is so inconsistent....I don't know if it's because of his opponents or if it's the way that he's used.

To me, the difference in tonight's game was his rebounding and what made him stand out. Unfortunately, his rebounding isn't like this all the time. If it was.....I'd guess that there'd be more people that are as big of a fan of McBob as you are.

Believe me, I LOVE all the things that he does that he does ( most notably his great passing )....but his inconsistent rebounding is the only knock on his game that I don't like.

CableKC
03-31-2011, 02:51 AM
Speaking of Mike, a like him a LOT better as a backup 3 instead of a starting 2. Much, much more preferable situation. If the idea moving forward is to keep him as Danny's backup, I'd welcome re-signng him. Just please no more starting and no more time at the 2.
This....+10000 when it comes to keeping Dunleavy at the backup 3 spot.

Given our logjam at the Wing rotation...unless BRush is moved in the offseason....which I am 50/50 on....I'm not really in favor of re-signing Dunleavy.

Will Galen
03-31-2011, 03:21 AM
Good game by us sans the last 8 mins. Glad Dun Dun is in the 2nd unit and I figured it was going to be at DJ expense (so did many other here).

O.T.
I don't think we S&T McBob if we trade for Mayo, I honestly believe that Josh was just cap relief/Expiring for them and if there is a trade it would be for draft picks because we can just absorb salary. Sorry for the run-on sentence.

Josh doesn't make enough money to much matter. They said they needed another big man.

imawhat
03-31-2011, 03:41 AM
That was easily Josh's best career game, imo. It just so happens that his stats were also good tonight, but the passing, initiating offense, setting timely picks, hustle, offensive boards and defense were all on overdrive tonight. It was a very impressive game from him; probably one of the more overall solid games by a Pacer all season.

It's been great to finally see some ball movement again. I felt better about this win than any of the wins this month.

Collison has looked a lot better in the past couple games; so has Roy.

Mike looks like he put on a little weight.

Brandon has been rushing his shot. His stroke doesn't look that great.

pacer4ever
03-31-2011, 03:51 AM
Good game by us sans the last 8 mins. Glad Dun Dun is in the 2nd unit and I figured it was going to be at DJ expense (so did many other here).

O.T.
I don't think we S&T McBob if we trade for Mayo, I honestly believe that Josh was just cap relief/Expiring for them and if there is a trade it would be for draft picks because we can just absorb salary. Sorry for the run-on sentence.

Josh wasnt cap relif they needed another big luckly the cavs cut Leon Poe and he signed with the Grizz just a few days after the trade deadline

Speed
03-31-2011, 06:24 AM
Seth, I've been with you in regards to McBob and love all the little things that he does that no one really pays attention to. I am really glad that he played the way he did tonight.....he made a lot of smart plays, was very active and all over the place and most notably his rebounding was well above average. I am glad that Vogel has decided to have McBob handle the ball more as of late. But the one thing that really "grinds my gears" is that his rebounding rate isn't as high as it should be. What I can't figure out is why his rebounding is so inconsistent....I don't know if it's because of his opponents or if it's the way that he's used.

To me, the difference in tonight's game was his rebounding and what made him stand out. Unfortunately, his rebounding isn't like this all the time. If it was.....I'd guess that there'd be more people that are as big of a fan of McBob as you are.

Believe me, I LOVE all the things that he does that he does ( most notably his great passing )....but his inconsistent rebounding is the only knock on his game that I don't like.


I completely agree, QFT.

Mackey_Rose
03-31-2011, 07:41 AM
I like McRoberts' game and I'm also a little puzzled that he seems to be more underrated and underappreciated then I'd expect. If anything, I'd expect a player like him to be a fan favorite all the way around.... a mixture of the hometown boy does good along with the tag of 'potential'.

Riddle me this, why was Jonathon Bender raved about so much for being half the actual player McRoberts actually is?

Draft position and the "Hansbrough effect."

vnzla81
03-31-2011, 08:05 AM
Draft position and the "Hansbrough effect."

Or could it be "the Mcbob fans" turning people off by telling us how great he is while trashing the other players and specially the one that Mcbob lost his starting spot to? :dontknow:

Speed
03-31-2011, 08:10 AM
Quick Note: I got there with my 3.5 year old daughter and 8 month pregnant wife at 6 pm. What fun, all kinds of fun stuff for the kids, great atmosphere, games, live music at every turn. My daughter had a great time!!!

Kudos to the Pacers organization for taking a lightly attended mid week game and creating a fun atmosphere as you walk in.

Trophy
03-31-2011, 08:12 AM
Tyler and Josh are pretty interchangeable players, IMO.

Both come in with energy and are aggressive.

I have no problem with how the lineup is now. It's pretty balanced.

McKeyFan
03-31-2011, 08:15 AM
Tyler and Josh are pretty interchangeable players, IMO.

Both come in with energy and are aggressive.

I have no problem with how the lineup is now. It's pretty balanced.
I don't think Danny and Tyler should be on the floor together as much. We need them both to be the go-to scorers when in the game.

Interesting, Vogel is actually addressing that somewhat by pulling Danny early and reinserting him earlier in the second quarter.

But starting those two doesn't work that well, in my opinion.

Trophy
03-31-2011, 08:22 AM
I don't think Danny and Tyler should be on the floor together as much. We need them both to be the go-to scorers when in the game.

Interesting, Vogel is actually addressing that somewhat by pulling Danny early and reinserting him earlier in the second quarter.

But starting those two doesn't work that well, in my opinion.

I think the problem is that those 2 rely heavily on themselves to do a lot of scoring on the offensive end.

I prefer Roy and Tyler playing with each other and Josh and Jeff.

DaveP63
03-31-2011, 08:27 AM
I think the problem is that those 2 rely heavily on themselves to do a lot of scoring on the offensive end.

I prefer Roy and Tyler playing with each other and Josh and Jeff.

YES!!! Normally, when the ball goes to them, it stops and goes up.

BKK
03-31-2011, 08:54 AM
Given our logjam at the Wing rotation...unless BRush is moved in the offseason....which I am 50/50 on....I'm not really in favor of re-signing Dunleavy.

I am 50/50 on moving BRush in the offseason too especially in this case where Mike is retained as a backup 3. BRush will compensate Mike's weaknesses on defense and vice versa on offense... My only problem with this (and that also applies to a certain extent to the starting lineup) is that we would lack a true slasher. That's why I'd like a Mayo type of player. If he can be had for a 1st of Rush we'd have more stability and true talent at the 2 position (I mean true as an authentic 2, not a combo 2-3). Anyway I like what Mike brings to the floor but you have to pair him with a good defender be it Rush, George or DJones.

BRushWithDeath
03-31-2011, 08:57 AM
:dontknow:

Quoted for truth.

cinotimz
03-31-2011, 08:59 AM
Despite both teams not being very good, few things are more satisfying than beating the crap out of the Pistons.

Gamble1
03-31-2011, 09:15 AM
Quick Note: I got there with my 3.5 year old daughter and 8 month pregnant wife at 6 pm. What fun, all kinds of fun stuff for the kids, great atmosphere, games, live music at every turn. My daughter had a great time!!!

Kudos to the Pacers organization for taking a lightly attended mid week game and creating a fun atmosphere as you walk in.
You have to let me know your secrets on how you got your 8 month pregnant wife to a basketball game with a kid. Kudos to you man.

vnzla81
03-31-2011, 09:17 AM
Quoted for truth.

:mad: ......... : talktohand:...... :-p

MTM
03-31-2011, 09:24 AM
Hey guys, just a cool experience from the game tonight. My choir (Liberty Christian School HS Choir) sang the national anthem for the game tonight, and while we were lined up on the court the players were still warming up. So i jokingly asked AJ Price to toss me the ball so I could shoot a three, and he really threw it to me! Haha so i took a quick dribble, and shot a three... and drained it! haha nothin but net. So all the players were screamin and givin me high fives, and throughout the game AJ would talk to me and when he hit a three we pointed at each other haha.

Just wanted to share this with you guys. Pretty neat experience for a crazzzy big Pacer fan like me!

Go Pacers!

You will be able to use this story for the rest of your life - in those awkward business meetings when you are looking for something to talk about on a personal level, in one of those "tell me one truth and two lies" games, in telling your kids about meeting professional athletes. Never forget how fun and real the moment was. It's something you will never duplicate.

dohman
03-31-2011, 09:44 AM
I no longer see josh and tyler as different players. I see them now as tysh.. It does not matter if one plays underpar because the other one always shows up and gives a stellar performance.

Gamble1
03-31-2011, 09:52 AM
Isn't that a girls name "tysh". Gotta do better than that IMO.

Justin Tyme
03-31-2011, 10:09 AM
Even when people say something nice you have to get on your soapbox and scream his praises. You act like this was an egregious statement. The guy said "probably" and didn't ever insinuate that McRoberts hadn't had other good games. Relax.


I had a post prepared, but yours was to the point in a far nicer way.

PacerGuy
03-31-2011, 10:09 AM
Brandon has been rushing his shot. His stroke doesn't look that great.

Watch him, he is fading back on almost every jumper. Brandon is spot on when he is jumping INTO is J, not falling back. Very correctable, but a bad habit.

xIndyFan
03-31-2011, 10:16 AM
it was an interesting game. but it is always fun to watch game 75 of an 82 game season. :rolleyes: the kind of half-trot half-stumble always tells you which team is just finishing the season. :laugh: pistons were mailing this one in.

the one thing that struck me, pacers have to be the worst transition defense team in the league. does anyone get back slower on defense than the pacers? i know it is late in the season, but if that doesn't get picked up, pacers will be 4 and out in the playoffs.

glad to see mike back. he really looked good in the goon squad. ball movement went from super slow to really pretty good. josh, jeff and mike do a really nice job of moving the ball and getting it to the open guy.

the one josh moment that really impressed me was josh actually posting austin daye. just like a real PF. nice to see josh can do that. looking forward to more of it. always thought it was a part of his game that he needed to use more.

Justin Tyme
03-31-2011, 10:27 AM
Riddle me this, why was Jonathon Bender raved about so much for being half the actual player McRoberts actually is?


The "P" word. It's all you ever heard from the time he was drafted. He was hyped from day one. You heard how great he was in practices, etc. He was built up to be something great. It was constantly stated how great he was by TPTB. This is why his failure left such a bad taste with fans. That and the fact that Walsh overpaid him when he re-signed Bender for all that "P".

dohman
03-31-2011, 10:30 AM
Isn't that a girls name "tysh". Gotta do better than that IMO.

They can live with it lol

PaceBalls
03-31-2011, 10:48 AM
Isn't that a girls name "tysh". Gotta do better than that IMO.

McHansberts.

There are only like 4 posters here who are polarizing these two players. Everyone else likes them both I think.

BPump33
03-31-2011, 10:55 AM
McHansberts.

There are only like 4 posters here who are polarizing these two players. Everyone else likes them both I think.

Put me in this camp. I just hope we can keep Josh here next year and beyond.

Will Galen
03-31-2011, 11:01 AM
McHansberts.

There are only like 4 posters here who are polarizing these two players. Everyone else likes them both I think.

I do! Like someone said, one of them usually has a really good game.

I want to resign Josh and Foster, and then sign a guy that can defend the center spot and rebound. I would like that big man rotation.

Hicks
03-31-2011, 11:07 AM
First of all, "Tosh" is the correct answer.

But to the question of why Josh isn't more well liked, I can't claim to know why for anyone besides myself.

My guess is some people aren't big fans of his unique style, and perhaps for others it's some lingering bias from Josh's HS and/or college days.

For me, it's a little bit of the former, except on nights like last night when, along with his usual game, he's also attacking a bit and really eating the glass. When he does those things along with his usual game, I love him.

That aside, the pro-Josh/anti-Tyler commentary dampens my enthusiasm sometimes. But I realize that's not Josh's fault.

Lastly, on comparing the two, Tyler is clearly busting his *** to be an overachiever, and sometimes Josh comes across as an underachiever because the talent is clearly there to be quite good, and sometimes he looks like he is coasting, by the higher standards that his body/talent demands.

I think that's another reason some like Tyler better. If both are B grade power forwards, you sense that Tyler is killing himself to turn his C- natural ability into a B level guy, but with Josh it's like an A level natural ability that he has yet to consistently live up to.

Lou Bega
03-31-2011, 11:26 AM
It will be interesting to see what Mc Roberts gets via free agency I am guessing in the 2 - 5 million dollar range. The kid is very young (24) and would be worth 6 -8 if he had a mid range game.

vnzla81
03-31-2011, 11:29 AM
I would like for Josh to come back, I'm just not sure what could be worse? Reading Seth's,MR or BWD posts telling us how amazing Josh is and everybody else sucks or reading Seth's,MR or BWD posts telling us how amazing Josh is in another team and how stupid the Pacers are for letting him go. :(

beast23
03-31-2011, 11:41 AM
First of all, "Tosh" is the correct answer...

Lastly, on comparing the two, Tyler is clearly busting his *** to be an overachiever, and sometimes Josh comes across as an underachiever because the talent is clearly there to be quite good, and sometimes he looks like he is coasting by his higher standards that his body/talent demands.

I think that's another reason some like Tyler better. If both are B grade power forwards, you sense that Tyler is killing himself to turn his C- natural ability into a B level guy, but with Josh it's like an A level natural ability that he has yet to consistently live up to.

Thanks. Very well stated.... no EXTREMELY well stated.

I don't think anyone would argue with a statement that Josh is the more graceful athlete. Things that he is able to do athletically are made to look easy. It is easy to see that he has a very decent bball IQ just from acknowledging the vision he has in support of his passing abilities.

I've never doubted that Josh's motor is just as high as Tyler's... it's just that it is easier to acknowledge Tyler's motor because his game is so physical... it usually involves bodies moving all over the place near the basket. On the other hand, Josh's game does not usually involve nearly as much contact.

I would love to see it all come together on a consistent basis for Josh... game after game after game.

If we were able to get consistency out of both players, then certainly from an offensive standpoint there would be no need to look at other PFs. Over time, it could then be determined whether there was enough collective defensive improvement in the three players (Roy, Tyler, Josh) to warrant not having to spend big dollars for a defensive upgrade.

Mackey_Rose
03-31-2011, 12:04 PM
I would like for Josh to come back, I'm just not sure what could be worse? Reading Seth's,MR or BWD posts telling us how amazing Josh is and everybody else sucks or reading Seth's,MR or BWD posts telling us how amazing Josh is in another team and how stupid the Pacers are for letting him go. :(

I was going to ignore your comment earlier, just like I'm close to making you the first and only poster on my ignore list. However, since you keep calling me out by name, I feel the need to respond.

Find some of my posts where I am "telling us how great he is while trashing the other players and specially the one that Mcbob lost his starting spot to?" I have said many, many times, when Josh was starting, when Tyler started, when Josh started again, and now that Tyler is starting again, that it doesn't matter who starts. They are interchangeable pieces. Pieces that fit together differently with the other parts, but individually they are interchangeable, even though they both offer different advantages and disadvantages from the other.

Find some of my posts where "tell you how amazing Josh is." Find some of my posts where I "tell you everybody else sucks." Find some of my posts where I "tell you how amazing Josh is in another team and how stupid the Pacers are for letting him go."

These posts that you are referencing do not exist.

Josh has had a good couple of games, and is due to have a bad one. Just like Tyler had a good stretch of games and was due for a bad stretch. That's all I ever said.

Stop making this whole debate into something that it isn't.

CableKC
03-31-2011, 12:20 PM
I don't think Danny and Tyler should be on the floor together as much. We need them both to be the go-to scorers when in the game.

Interesting, Vogel is actually addressing that somewhat by pulling Danny early and reinserting him earlier in the second quarter.

But starting those two doesn't work that well, in my opinion.
I actually like having both of them on the floor at the same time. Because of the attention that he SOMETIMES garners on the defensive end....it does relieve some of the pressure that other Teams put on Granger. IMHO....the offense is really efficient when Granger/Hansbrough/Hibbert are "on" when it comes to scoring....it makes it that much harder for the other Team to defend everyone. Especially when it comes to Granger's game....he's a more efficient scorer when the primary focus of the defense isn't placed entirely on him. When McBob is on the floor with him......it allows the opposing Team to leave him alone on the defensive end so that they can focus more on Hibbert and Granger.

Besides, I like McBob and Dunleavy on the floor at the same time.

CableKC
03-31-2011, 12:25 PM
I am 50/50 on moving BRush in the offseason too especially in this case where Mike is retained as a backup 3. BRush will compensate Mike's weaknesses on defense and vice versa on offense... My only problem with this (and that also applies to a certain extent to the starting lineup) is that we would lack a true slasher. That's why I'd like a Mayo type of player. If he can be had for a 1st of Rush we'd have more stability and true talent at the 2 position (I mean true as an authentic 2, not a combo 2-3). Anyway I like what Mike brings to the floor but you have to pair him with a good defender be it Rush, George or DJones.
BRush is a conundrum wrapped in a riddle and covered in nougat.....half the time..when he plays like the way that he's been playing over the last couple of games.....I ( and probably half the forum ) doesn't want him moved....then the other half of him that disappears for games on end decides to show up and the entire forum wants him gone.

I really have no clue on what to do with BRush. I guess it all comes down to who we can get in the offseason. If we can get a very solid starting SG ( like Mayo or JRich ), then I'd miss Dunleavy's ball movement but I'd be okay with seeing him gone.

CableKC
03-31-2011, 12:35 PM
First of all, "Tosh" is the correct answer.

But to the question of why Josh isn't more well liked, I can't claim to know why for anyone besides myself.

My guess is some people aren't big fans of his unique style, and perhaps for others it's some lingering bias from Josh's HS and/or college days.

For me, it's a little bit of the former, except on nights like last night when, along with his usual game, he's also attacking a bit and really eating the glass. When he does those things along with his usual game, I love him.

That aside, the pro-Josh/anti-Tyler commentary dampens my enthusiasm sometimes. But I realize that's not Josh's fault.

Lastly, on comparing the two, Tyler is clearly busting his *** to be an overachiever, and sometimes Josh comes across as an underachiever because the talent is clearly there to be quite good, and sometimes he looks like he is coasting, by the higher standards that his body/talent demands.

I think that's another reason some like Tyler better. If both are B grade power forwards, you sense that Tyler is killing himself to turn his C- natural ability into a B level guy, but with Josh it's like an A level natural ability that he has yet to consistently live up to.
As you said...it's not that there is any anti-McBob hate out there...it's more that IMHO there are 2 camps...those that LOVE McBob and think he's the greatest thing since slice bread.....and then there are those that likes McBob but doesn't think that he's just another athletic backup PF with some solid passing skills.

vnzla81
03-31-2011, 12:50 PM
I was going to ignore your comment earlier, just like I'm close to making you the first and only poster on my ignore list. However, since you keep calling me out by name, I feel the need to respond.

Find some of my posts where I am "telling us how great he is while trashing the other players and specially the one that Mcbob lost his starting spot to?" I have said many, many times, when Josh was starting, when Tyler started, when Josh started again, and now that Tyler is starting again, that it doesn't matter who starts. They are interchangeable pieces. Pieces that fit together differently with the other parts, but individually they are interchangeable, even though they both offer different advantages and disadvantages from the other.

These posts that you are referencing do not exist.
.

I think you need to take a chill pill, what happen with the "this is just an Internet forum and I don't get upset about it"?
Do you really want me to find a post about every single comment you and the other guys make? You don't say that the other players suck exactly but you trash Danny any time you have a chance, you do the same thing with DC(I agree with you about DC) I think I'm going to stop calling your name, I didn't know you would get this upset, sorry for that.

BRushWithDeath
03-31-2011, 12:51 PM
I actually like having both of them on the floor at the same time. Because of the attention that he SOMETIMES garners on the defensive end....it does relieve some of the pressure that other Teams put on Granger. IMHO....the offense is really efficient when Granger/Hansbrough/Hibbert are "on" when it comes to scoring....it makes it that much harder for the other Team to defend everyone. Especially when it comes to Granger's game....he's a more efficient scorer when the primary focus of the defense isn't placed entirely on him. When McBob is on the floor with him......it allows the opposing Team to leave him alone on the defensive end so that they can focus more on Hibbert and Granger.

The problem is that they are almost never "on" when they are playing together.

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011IND2.HTM

3 of our 20 most used lineups include a frontcourt of Granger, Hansbrough, and Hibbert.

Group 1: They've played 152.1 minutes paired with Collison and Dunleavy. That group scores 1.02 per possession and allows 0.98.

Group 2: They've played 66.0 minutes paired with Collison and Rush. That group scores 1.05 per possession and allows 1.08.

Group 3: They've played 63.4 minutes paired with Collison and George. That group (our current startering lineup) scores just 0.90 points per possession and allows a whopping 1.31

Exchanging Tyler for Josh has done the following:

Group 1: 439.2 minutes scoring 1.14 points per possession allowing 0.99. (By far our best group and also the most minutes. In fact, this group is schockingly among the best in the league.)

Group 2: 198.2 minutes scoring 1.03 and allowing 1.13 per possession.

Group 3: 41.4 minutes scoring 1.09 and allowing 1.16.

So while in theory we should be able to score more efficiently with Danny, Tyler, and Roy all "on", it has not worked in practice. Mostly because they can't all be "on" at the same time. In every group the offense has been more efficient with Josh between Danny and Roy than it has with Tyler.

Since86
03-31-2011, 12:55 PM
Anyone else find it funny that everyone say's we're all in agreement about Tyler and Josh but how it turns into an argument every freaking opportunity?

If we're in agreement, then the damn discussion shouldn't be taking place every other day.

Moving on........

I really liked Roy tonight, although he didn't have many FGA. What I really liked seeing is when he caught the ball of the left block and identified that Rip was going to be coming down and doubling when he put the ball on the floor. Roy then took one dribble towards the help and then quickly spun baseline for the bucket.

Great recognition by Roy.

pacergod2
03-31-2011, 12:56 PM
"Tosh.Board" or "Tosh.Nasty" or "Daniel McHansdunk"

Mackey_Rose
03-31-2011, 12:57 PM
I think you need to take a chill pill, what happen with the "this is just an Internet forum and I don't get upset about it"?
Do you really want me to find a post about every single comment you and the other guys make? You don't say that the other players suck exactly but you trash Danny any time you have a chance, you do the same thing with DC(I agree with you about DC) I think I'm going to stop calling your name, I didn't know you would get this upset, sorry for that.

I am not upset about it, but I would like you to find an example of these posts you are referencing.

Sookie
03-31-2011, 01:02 PM
I actually thought Josh had a better game against Boston.

Here's Seth's point..Josh was very good tonight, and very good last night. In fact, despite not having equal stats (because they are different players) Josh has played the last two games as well as Tyler has played in his stretch..and yet..there are no "Josh could be a future all star" posts. There are no "Josh is definitely the best PF on the team" nor are there any "Josh is the answer at PF" posts.

As a fan of Josh, I'm sure that's annoying. Like he's being slighted.

Here's the thing that Josh's fans miss, imo. The other PF is Tyler F'ing Hansbrough. You know, possibly best college career ever Tyler F'ing Hansbrough. Of course Tyler is going to have a ton more fans. Of course people are going to project that he'll be a great player, over someone like Josh. Who really wasn't all that well known. (I definitely didn't know him until I started watching the Pacers. Although, I personally like Josh and Tyler equally. And I think they are about the same level player.)

Personally, I think the problem with the starting lineup, is that the guys who are supposed to score (DC, Hibbert, Roy) aren't consistent. So you almost need another option like Hans, because we don't have a SG that can score a ton. (Unless we put Dun out there..but then defense should be fun..) The problem then becomes that the ball doesn't move very much (The difference last night, between the second unit's ball movement and the first unit's ball movement was striking. Particularly when it was Second unit + Roy..which will actually probably become a really interesting unit for us.) And the second unit doesn't have a scoring threat in the post.

So I'm not sure that I buy that it doesn't matter which of the two starts. But I'm not sure which of the two should start. I will say, so long as the starting lineup doesn't dig too big of a hole (or the second unit...which because there is no scoring threat in the post..probably will happen because..as we've seen..Price, Dun, and Rush are capable of all going cold at the same time) Vogel plays whichever one is playing well, the most minutes.

thatch3232
03-31-2011, 03:03 PM
Haha, this was a great story. You guys had a unique dissonant arrangement to change it up for once. Nice job and funny stuff.

My dad actually wrote that arrangement haha another fun fact for ya

wintermute
03-31-2011, 03:16 PM
The problem is that they are almost never "on" when they are playing together.

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011IND2.HTM

3 of our 20 most used lineups include a frontcourt of Granger, Hansbrough, and Hibbert.

Group 1: They've played 152.1 minutes paired with Collison and Dunleavy. That group scores 1.02 per possession and allows 0.98.

Group 2: They've played 66.0 minutes paired with Collison and Rush. That group scores 1.05 per possession and allows 1.08.

Group 3: They've played 63.4 minutes paired with Collison and George. That group (our current startering lineup) scores just 0.90 points per possession and allows a whopping 1.31

Exchanging Tyler for Josh has done the following:

Group 1: 439.2 minutes scoring 1.14 points per possession allowing 0.99. (By far our best group and also the most minutes. In fact, this group is schockingly among the best in the league.)

Group 2: 198.2 minutes scoring 1.03 and allowing 1.13 per possession.

Group 3: 41.4 minutes scoring 1.09 and allowing 1.16.

So while in theory we should be able to score more efficiently with Danny, Tyler, and Roy all "on", it has not worked in practice. Mostly because they can't all be "on" at the same time. In every group the offense has been more efficient with Josh between Danny and Roy than it has with Tyler.

What stood out to me from those numbers is how shockingly effective Dunleavy at SG is compared to Rush or George.

Usual caveat for 5-man +/- is the sample size of course. Still, those 100+ minute lineups seem pretty compelling to me.

BRushWithDeath
03-31-2011, 03:37 PM
What stood out to me from those numbers is how shockingly effective Dunleavy at SG is compared to Rush or George.

Usual caveat for 5-man +/- is the sample size of course. Still, those 100+ minute lineups seem pretty compelling to me.

Absolutely.

Dunleavy has easily been one of the most efficient Pacers this season. Considering the amount of minutes he's played I would say he's been the most efficient Pacer.

Of the players who have have played more than 30% of the available minutes his efficiency is right near the top.

McRoberts has played 39% of the minutes and we score 1.08 and allow 1.05 points per possession with him on the floor.

Dunleavy has played 52% of the minutes and we score 1.07 and allow 1.05 points per possession with him on the floor.

Unfortunately those are the only two who are net positives while hitting the 30% minute threshold. Foster, Price, D. Jones, and Stephenson are also positive but haven't played enough.

Granger has played 72% of the minutes and we score 1.06 and allow 1.07 points per possession with him on the floor.

Hibbert has played 57% of the minutes we score 1.05 and allow 1.06 points per possession with him on the floor.

Hansbrough has played 31% of the minutes and we score 1.05 and allow 1.08 points per possession with him on the floor.

Collison has played 59% of the minutes and we score 1.06 and allow 1.09 points per possession with him on the floor.

Rush has played 43% of the minutes and we score 1.04 and allow 1.09 points per possession with him on the floor.

George (Off. 1.06 Def. 1.09), Ford, Posey, and S. Jones are also net negatives but they haven't played 30% of the minutes. Though George at 26% could potentially reach that mark by the end of the year.

It is almost sad how poor Rush has been. It certainly seems like we should be a better team with Rush (or George) on the floor than with Dunleavy. Unfortunately, that has been far from the case.

CableKC
03-31-2011, 03:46 PM
Wow...when you look the 82games stats that BRushwithDeath put up...that tells me one thing:

The most effective lineup that we have is:

DC/Dunleavy/Granger/McBob/Hibbert ( +125 )

and the 2nd most effective lineup that we have is:

AJ/Inferno/PG/Hansbrough/Foster ( +31 )

basically the lineup that Vogel used during when we started with the Goon Squad in the 2nd unit.

I guess the question is......do these +/- numbers tell the whole story?

Clearly...having Dunleavy start against the Heat didn't work as we got torched by DWade and we couldn't really recover. But it's not like we play DWade all the time.

Can these lineups be continually used for all situations?

or

Is this one of those situations where we simply live with the "minuses" that come along with all the "pluses" by using the lineups this way?

Given that PG and Hansbrough appears to have hit a wall....maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea. :shrug:

HeliumFear
03-31-2011, 04:00 PM
Wow...when you look the 82games stats that BRushwithDeath put up...that tells me one thing:

The most effective lineup that we have is:

DC/Dunleavy/Granger/McBob/Hibbert ( +125 )

and the 2nd most effective lineup that we have is:

AJ/Inferno/PG/Hansbrough/Foster ( +31 )

basically the lineup that Vogel used during when we started with the Goon Squad in the 2nd unit.

I guess the question is......do these +/- numbers tell the whole story?

Clearly...having Dunleavy start against the Heat didn't work as we got torched by DWade and we couldn't really recover. But it's not like we play DWade all the time.

Can these lineups be continually used for all situations?

or

Is this one of those situations where we simply live with the "minuses" that come along with all the "pluses" by using the lineups this way?

Given that PG and Hansbrough appears to have hit a wall....maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea. :shrug:

I think the numbers are reflecting what's happening quite well. The starting unit works better with McBob and Dunleavy because they're not exactly looking for touches. Both of their games promote movement on the offensive end. With PG and Hans in,everyone is looking for their shot and it makes the offense stagnant at times.

The Goon Squad gives PG and Hans a chance to get theirs while only having to worry about Price as the only other option. Playing these lineups gives us steady scoring throughout.

I think we need to go back to starting Dun and Josh vs the Bulls (providing we meet them in the playoffs). Their bench is the best defensive bench...possibly ever. They also get no production at all from their shooting guards. Their 2s would actually hide Dunleavy's man-defense.

:twocents:

Hicks
03-31-2011, 04:23 PM
There's a chicken and the egg question here:

Do the stats make those lineups seem best because they actually are the best, or are they just a reflection of the lineups we played during Frank's honeymoon period after JOB got fired and the weaker schedule we had at that same time?

The answer is probably somewhere in the middle, but it's something to keep in mind.

Sobotka
03-31-2011, 04:54 PM
There's a chicken and the egg question here:

Do the stats make those lineups seem best because they actually are the best, or are they just a reflection of the lineups we played during Frank's honeymoon period after JOB got fired and the weaker schedule we had at that same time?

The answer is probably somewhere in the middle, but it's something to keep in mind.

The first unit played 269 minutes under O'Brien, was +91 (+16.2 per 48 minutes), scored 1.13 points per possession and allowed 0.95 points per possession. They played 171 minutes under Vogel, were +34 (+9.5 per 48), scored 1.15 ppp and allowed 1.06 ppp.

The "goon squad" played entirely under Vogel, and the 93 minutes shown on 82games was from 1/31 through 3/4. They played another 7 minutes since then, going -7 in those games for a total +24.

They are really the product of three good games. The two Miami games in February (+19 in 16 minutes, 1.67 scored, 1.03 allowed), and the Minnesota game at Conseco (+7 in 6.5 minutes, 1.67 scored, 1.08 allowed). The Minnesota game is driven by Dahntay's 4th quarter explosion.

Eleazar
03-31-2011, 06:02 PM
Honestly at this point the only +/- stats I care about are from the post-JOB time frame.

vnzla81
03-31-2011, 06:05 PM
I'm sorry but those stats don't tell me s***

BRushWithDeath
03-31-2011, 06:11 PM
I'm sorry but those stats don't tell me s***

What exactly would?

McKeyFan
03-31-2011, 07:54 PM
With PG and Hans in,everyone is looking for their shot and it makes the offense stagnant at times.

The Goon Squad gives PG and Hans a chance to get theirs while only having to worry about Price as the only other option. Playing these lineups gives us steady scoring throughout.

:twocents:
Are you confusing PG with Dahntay? I don't see Paul George ball hogging at all.

vnzla81
03-31-2011, 09:13 PM
What exactly would?

There is way too many things to take into account, Roy sucking, Danny sucking, JOB as the coach, Vogel as the coach, players with their feelings hurt, players finally playing to win, Dunleavy hurt, Dunleavy healthy, AJ making shots, AJ not making shots, playing againts winning teams, playing againts losing teams, stats tell you one thing but don't tell you the whole picture, this to me is pretty much like the stats the "JOB supporters" would show us to tell us how good of a coach he was and as we all know he sucked.

I could also say that this team is 10 games under .500 and if your best team according to the stats is keeping you under .500 you always need to find ways to increase the wins, I also remember when he had people telling us that the best lineup was when we had Troy last year and Posey this year starting and if I can remember right, the "Josh Mc Roberts camp" disagreed with those stats just like me.

Day-V
03-31-2011, 09:54 PM
Are you confusing PG with Dahntay? I don't see Paul George ball hogging at all.

Agreed. If anything, Paul could stand to be a little bit more aggressive with the ball.

15th parallel
03-31-2011, 10:17 PM
The lack of ball movement is not because everybody's a scorer. It is because of familiarity. This starting lineup has played just about more than 10 games. Roy is willing to pass, DC can find teammates for good looks, Danny has been a better set-up guy this season, Tyler has been trying to pass for open teammates as of late, and George is unselfish. It's just that they need to be familiar with each other and need to develop play strategies when they are together as a unit.

As for Josh vs Tyler debate (again), I just don't see it why every time a good game from Josh or Hans ignites this debate. As I see it, they are complementing each other and one picks up the slack when the other has a sub-par game. Can we be just be happy that we have a much better PF rotation as opposed to having Murphy or Posey play a lot at PF? :)