PDA

View Full Version : When Dunleavy returns....



Peck
03-29-2011, 05:48 PM
Who get's benched & why?

(This should be fun):devil:

vnzla81
03-29-2011, 05:53 PM
I would..... :puke:

Psyren
03-29-2011, 05:54 PM
Dahntay.

Why you may ask? Because I just flipped a coin.

You could make a case for either. I'd rather sit Rush, but I suppose it doesn't really matter.

ilive4sports
03-29-2011, 05:56 PM
Probably Dahanty. I like the guy, but only in small doses.

Kegboy
03-29-2011, 05:59 PM
George, I'm afraid he's hitting the rookie wall. Rush has been playing better, others have mentioned he's getting his shot off faster. However, I would keep him on a tight leash.

And yes, before any of you say it, I know I'm completely evil for saying this. I'm going to go eat some babies for dinner now.

Richard_Skull
03-29-2011, 06:02 PM
Well, the way I look at it is that if Mike is going to play, and come off of the bench (assuming,hoping that's the case) that he should only play at the 3. So, out of B.Rush and D.Jones, I think you take the one that plays the 2 the best and bench the other. Now which one that is I'm not quite sure, but I'm leaning towards Rush being the better 2, especially of late.

Hoop
03-29-2011, 06:09 PM
As much as I love George, he has played the worse out of our wings lately. No aggression, defense has slipped, seems to really be struggling in all aspects of his game. I hate for him to miss out on much needed experience though. Still LOVE his potential.

Brandon's defense & 3 pt shooting is much needed, IMO.

I like Dahntay's aggressiveness and he shoots a pretty good % most of the time, I know some on here think he's a black hole. Myself, I feel more confident when he shoots the ball than half of the team and he takes the ball to the basket strong.

I'm not a Dun fan, and I don't think he should be in our future plans, but we have missed him on the court since his broken thumb.

It's really a tough decision, I'm glad Vogel, and not JOB, is the one making it. At least there will be sound logic applied.

DemonHunter1105
03-29-2011, 06:14 PM
I say bench Dahntay but not completely. Give him maybe a minute or 2 at end of the first half, and some time when people get in foul trouble or aren't getting it done.

George would be my next choice but he needs to work through this slump to get better. If he just cuts back a little bit of his aggression on D and puts it toward his O instead, he'll be just fine.

IndySDExport
03-29-2011, 06:14 PM
I think you start Mike to bring some more offense back to the starting unit,

Bring George off the bench where has been more effective (he's really struggled as a starter)

Split the rest between dahntay and brandon depending on defensive assignments and who's playing better.

Infinite MAN_force
03-29-2011, 06:35 PM
D. Jones, it shouldn't even be a question.

I also think we need a shake up in the starting lineup, we need more of a vet presence there. I would be a fan of either Rush or Dunleavy starting and bringing Paul off the bench. Paul can be more of a focal point offensively if he is coming off the bench.

Considering the 2 guard is currently relegated to 5th option, I wouldn't mind seeing Rush play the glue guy role with the starters, with big minutes for George and Dunleavy off the bench. I think that would improve the second unit a lot. Rush is most useful when he is playing off of superior offensive players anyway which could be his role with the starters.

Meanwhile, the 2nd unit needs offense, I like adding Paul and Mike to that mix, Mike also has good chemistry with Josh.

One could also make an argument for starting Dunleavy, which I am not entirely opposed to either. Although, I like pairing him with whatever unit Josh is in.

DaveP63
03-29-2011, 06:41 PM
I think you start Mike to bring some more offense back to the starting unit,

Bring George off the bench where has been more effective (he's really struggled as a starter)

Split the rest between dahntay and brandon depending on defensive assignments and who's playing better.

This

McKeyFan
03-29-2011, 06:46 PM
I'd bench Rush.

CableKC
03-29-2011, 07:18 PM
Inferno or BRush based off of matchups.

If the defense and offense better matchup with one or the other....then we go with that guy...if it doesn't work out...then switch in the other.

For example, if Inferno is a better matchup on the offensive and defensive end....he's in the goon squad alongside Dunleavy. If Inferno isn't working out ( missed shots, he's not matching up well on the defensive end ), then pull him in favor of BRush to see if he's better.

Either way...either one of them are playing next to Dunleavy in the 2nd unit as the guy that defends the quicker Wing Player on the court and Dunleavy is left to defend the weaker Wing Player.

speakout4
03-29-2011, 07:23 PM
I would let Brandon play until we can determine whether he is part of the future or part of the past.

Gamble1
03-29-2011, 07:27 PM
George, I'm afraid he's hitting the rookie wall. Rush has been playing better, others have mentioned he's getting his shot off faster. However, I would keep him on a tight leash.

And yes, before any of you say it, I know I'm completely evil for saying this. I'm going to go eat some babies for dinner now.
I completely agree.

If we were 5 games up or 5 games out of the playoff race then i would give him minutes but he hasn't shown that he deserves them, imo.

Naptown_Seth
03-29-2011, 07:54 PM
D. Jones, it shouldn't even be a question.

I also think we need a shake up in the starting lineup, we need more of a vet presence there. I would be a fan of either Rush or Dunleavy starting and bringing Paul off the bench. Paul can be more of a focal point offensively if he is coming off the bench.

Considering the 2 guard is currently relegated to 5th option, I wouldn't mind seeing Rush play the glue guy role with the starters, with big minutes for George and Dunleavy off the bench. I think that would improve the second unit a lot. Rush is most useful when he is playing off of superior offensive players anyway which could be his role with the starters.

Meanwhile, the 2nd unit needs offense, I like adding Paul and Mike to that mix, Mike also has good chemistry with Josh.

One could also make an argument for starting Dunleavy, which I am not entirely opposed to either. Although, I like pairing him with whatever unit Josh is in.
Pretty much agree right down the line IMF.

Rush's defense has really been dialed in when he's not playing tired, and his rebounding has been excellent. The boards he gets are typically 4-5 boards the team wasn't going to get were it not for him rather than empty uncontested ones.

You need his 3 falling and it would be nice if he could pair the effort to score inside with actually putting the ball through the hoop inside the arc.


Josh/Dun should be glued together since I think they by far have the most chemistry of any pair on offense.


I think you cut George more than Jones. Kegboy is right, he hit the brick wall it looks like. That's okay, we finally got him some real minutes and he showed lots of promise. I mean you don't have to DNP him at this point anyway, you can always slip him back in from time to time to see what comes of it, especially in at least one playoff game during meaningful minutes.

Will Galen
03-29-2011, 08:51 PM
you can always slip him back in from time to time to see what comes of it, especially in at least one playoff game during meaningful minutes.

I haven't read any guarantees we will make the playoffs this year. And I expect a lockout that kills next season. And then the year aft . . . well it could be a long wait.

speakout4
03-29-2011, 08:59 PM
I haven't read any guarantees we will make the playoffs this year. And I expect a lockout that kills next season. And then the year aft . . . well it could be a long wait.
One side or the other will cave. We will have a season but lots will depend on what happens in nfl.

vnzla81
03-29-2011, 10:07 PM
I'd bench Rush.

http://cdn.thefrisky.com/images/uploads/cnn.say_.no_m_.jpg

ilive4sports
03-29-2011, 10:34 PM
http://cdn.thefrisky.com/images/uploads/cnn.say_.no_m_.jpg

I wonder what she's saying

Eleazar
03-29-2011, 10:34 PM
I'll be happy once summer comes and we won't have 5 wings, we will just have 4. Makes things a lot easier.

pwee31
03-29-2011, 10:53 PM
I'll be happy once summer comes and we won't have 5 wings, we will just have 4. Makes things a lot easier.

We actually have 6 wings, one is just old, slow and force to play PF due to that

Constellations
03-29-2011, 11:26 PM
I know I'm gonna catch alot from everybody for saying this. But I have a SHAKE-UP.

As much as I love Tyler, I HONESTLY believe we bench him and start Feisty Foster at PF and have Tyler come off the bench. Jeff's rebounding is absolutely great for us and would do wonders to start and finish games. Bringing Tyler in back to the goon squad can pick up scoring for faulty starts from our starters.

As for the Dunleavy situation, start him. Add some more firepower to the starters, no questions. DC, Roy, DG33, and Mike are some great firepower. Roy, Danny and Mike are decent re-bounders, but if you add Jeff you really get a good package of activity on D and O boards.

Start Mike, and have PG come off the bench. Use B-Rush and DJ's time sparsely.

But if things look somewhat rough-weak from our starters(Scoring/Rebounding/Defense) PG and Tyler coming in would be a great breathe of fresh air.

BillS
03-30-2011, 01:02 AM
As much as I love Tyler, I HONESTLY believe we bench him and start Feisty Foster at PF and have Tyler come off the bench.

:
:
:
Start Mike, and have PG come off the bench.

The irony, it burnzez us. Start the veterans? Unheard of! Absurd! :lol:

Brad8888
03-30-2011, 01:29 AM
We actually have 6 wings, one is just old, slow and force to play PF due to that

7 when another one is being trained to be a pg.

Will Galen
03-30-2011, 01:30 AM
I know I'm gonna catch alot from everybody for saying this. But I have a SHAKE-UP.

As much as I love Tyler, I HONESTLY believe we bench him and start Feisty Foster at PF and have Tyler come off the bench.

Foster has a bad back so it's better for him and the team if he plays limited minutes most nights. I think he should stay as Roy's back up. His rebounding helps the subs outplay the other teams backups.

Constellations
03-30-2011, 02:49 AM
Foster has a bad back so it's better for him and the team if he plays limited minutes most nights. I think he should stay as Roy's back up. His rebounding helps the subs outplay the other teams backups.

I know this, you start the game with him, that way if we aren't making shots, he's grabbing those boards giving us second chance points, could be a great stepping stone to our slow starts.

Still give him limited minutes, but get him on first.

vnzla81
03-30-2011, 06:35 AM
I know I'm gonna catch alot from everybody for saying this. But I have a SHAKE-UP.

As much as I love Tyler, I HONESTLY believe we bench him and start Feisty Foster at PF and have Tyler come off the bench. Jeff's rebounding is absolutely great for us and would do wonders to start and finish games. Bringing Tyler in back to the goon squad can pick up scoring for faulty starts from our starters.

As for the Dunleavy situation, start him. Add some more firepower to the starters, no questions. DC, Roy, DG33, and Mike are some great firepower. Roy, Danny and Mike are decent re-bounders, but if you add Jeff you really get a good package of activity on D and O boards.

Start Mike, and have PG come off the bench. Use B-Rush and DJ's time sparsely.

But if things look somewhat rough-weak from our starters(Scoring/Rebounding/Defense) PG and Tyler coming in would be a great breathe of fresh air.

Yeah and then we bring TJ and make our starting line up TJ,Dunleavy,Danny,Foster,Roy and after that we bring JOB back .................. :rolleyes:

DaveP63
03-30-2011, 07:41 AM
I know I'm gonna catch alot from everybody for saying this. But I have a SHAKE-UP.

As much as I love Tyler, I HONESTLY believe we bench him and start Feisty Foster at PF and have Tyler come off the bench. Jeff's rebounding is absolutely great for us and would do wonders to start and finish games. Bringing Tyler in back to the goon squad can pick up scoring for faulty starts from our starters.

As for the Dunleavy situation, start him. Add some more firepower to the starters, no questions. DC, Roy, DG33, and Mike are some great firepower. Roy, Danny and Mike are decent re-bounders, but if you add Jeff you really get a good package of activity on D and O boards.

Start Mike, and have PG come off the bench. Use B-Rush and DJ's time sparsely.

But if things look somewhat rough-weak from our starters(Scoring/Rebounding/Defense) PG and Tyler coming in would be a great breathe of fresh air.

If it's earlier in the year, maybe. But it's kind of late in the year to be jacking the lineup around too much and there's too much riding on these games. I don't see where you take the chance unless it's out of despiration.

Marlin
03-30-2011, 10:15 AM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110330/SPORTS04/103300347/1062/SPORTS04/Big-night-up-down-Pacers

The Pacers could get a boost tonight. Shooting guard Mike Dunleavy, who missed 19 games with broken left thumb, could be back. Dunleavy practiced Tuesday and was shooting without a brace on his hand.

"Mike looked great. I thought he was the best player in practice," Collison said.

Dunleavy is averaging 11.2 points for the season and has played in 54 games.

"His conditioning felt good. His shot-making was good, his movement . . . he looked like Mike," Pacers coach Frank Vogel said. "He could be huge. We have to figure out how to use him the best."

by Jeff Rabjohns

Naptown_Seth
03-30-2011, 08:51 PM
The irony, it burnzez us. Start the veterans? Unheard of! Absurd! :lol:
What's ironic about it, how many people said Dun should start? How many people are saying Foster should start?

I feel like you are trying to make a point to all the people you thought were wrong for wanting to go to the kids for development. But those people still feel that way.

The only reason I would have backed off George is because he seemed to be hitting the wall and dragging. Setting him would just be some physical and emotional relief, and only temporary. Sounds like he was a bit more involved tonight (listening, Tivo later) so that's great. Vogel swapped Dun for DJones in the backup role and did what some of us asked and kept Dun and Josh tied together.

BillS
03-30-2011, 11:12 PM
What's ironic about it, how many people said Dun should start? How many people are saying Foster should start?

Well, that particular lol icon means (to me) that it's an obvious and probably bad joke/"humorous" comment.

And, again, I never ever said you never play guys for development, I said you don't play guys solely for development over better players. I fully believe you can carve out minutes, I just don't think they have to be major or starting minutes to be useful or effective.

The continuing statements of "we have to play <X> to see what we've got" boggle me, as if a coaching staff can't have any clue what kind of player someone is unless they are in a game. I accept that many felt the previous regime was poor at making that connection consistently, but that doesn't somehow validate the general principle. The only people who "see what we've got" solely through playing time are fans.

graphic-er
03-31-2011, 09:27 AM
Well i hope Mike Dunleavy can provide more offense than 1-6 from 3. If all that ball movement only results in chucking up 3pters than I'd rather keep Rush in the offseason and let Dunleavy walk. If he can show a more balanced offense in the 2nd unit and be that go to guy in that unit then I'd say resign and trade Rush.

Hicks
03-31-2011, 11:25 AM
Yes, the ball movement and player movement resulted exclusively in Mike's shooting stats. Nothing else. :rolleyes:

vnzla81
03-31-2011, 11:44 AM
Yes, the ball movement and player movement resulted exclusively in Mike's shooting stats. Nothing else. :rolleyes:

But isn't his amazing scoring and shooting ability the number one reason why his fans wants him to play?

MrSparko
03-31-2011, 11:59 AM
I haven't seen anyone cite his shooting as his best feature. I've seen people miss his playmaking abilities, team defense, experience, passes, leadership. I don't think anyone has claimed that he is Steve Kerr.

Sookie
03-31-2011, 01:10 PM
But isn't his amazing scoring and shooting ability the number one reason why his fans wants him to play?

No. Not at all.

Unclebuck
03-31-2011, 01:54 PM
I'll be happy once summer comes and we won't have 5 wings, we will just have 4. Makes things a lot easier.

I plan on having 12 wings tonight

Ozwalt72
03-31-2011, 02:19 PM
I like Dun as Danny's primary backup. Let Rush and George take the minutes at the 2 so we have a solid wing defender out there. I don't think anyone has a problem limiting Danny's minutes to 32 or so with the way he's been shooting. Not to mention we can still go small if needed. Which, for a few minutes a game, isn't nearly as bad as what a lot of you think it is.

Hicks
03-31-2011, 04:30 PM
But isn't his amazing scoring and shooting ability the number one reason why his fans wants him to play?

No.

vnzla81
03-31-2011, 05:03 PM
No.


Missing the option "hasn't changed my opinion on Dunleavy".

Based on what I've seen (bear in mind I've been out of the country the last week and haven't seen anything but scores), I would actually be comfortable with PG staying in the starting lineup and Dun coming in as a scoring option for the Goons.

I think we miss defense with Dun on the floor MUCH less against a second unit.


Here is a comment by Bills from few days ago, as him many people have argued that we need "Dunleavy's offense", maybe you think that he brings something else but a lot people want him on the team because of his shooting ability.

pacer4ever
03-31-2011, 05:10 PM
Here is a comment by Bills from few days ago, as him many people have argued that we need "Dunleavy's offense", maybe you think that he brings something else but a lot people want him on the team because of his shooting ability.

there is more to offense than shooting

vnzla81
03-31-2011, 05:22 PM
Before the season started, I said Mike's ideal position was running the show for the second unit. I still think that's the case.

The dude's a gun, so why make him a 5th option on the starting lineup? Put him against the backups and give him a green light.


Another example.

Eleazar
03-31-2011, 05:48 PM
I plan on having 12 wings tonight

Well yeah tonight I'm going to have 12 wings too.

Trophy
03-31-2011, 06:15 PM
The team plays more like a team with him out there.

I'm not, however rooting for us to bring him back. I'll take the cap space and have more options.

speakout4
03-31-2011, 07:18 PM
Another example.
You want to isolate his shooting % and use it against him and then justify that by comments made on this board? Really weird. Just say you bloody hate him and be done with it.

McKeyFan
03-31-2011, 08:38 PM
I plan on having 12 wings tonight

Fire JOB.

Naptown_Seth
03-31-2011, 08:52 PM
The only people who "see what we've got" solely through playing time are fans.
And Steve Kerr on a recent Simmons podcast where he says it's absolutely worthless to think you can develop at all without playing time. He is talking about why players shouldn't come out too soon because the NCAA development they will get will be far better for them, much more interaction, coaching and playing time.

Practice drills tell you jack squat about how a guy plays the game. That thinking is what has some GMs making stupid choices based on combines and one on one workouts.

PLAYING is the test of how well you PLAY.

Bender = greatest practice player ever...do you really want to continue to take this side of the debate?



BTW, you very much did tell me that Rush being benched for Dun in his rookie year had no impact on his development, that he needed to watch from the bench in order to develop. Just like you always say that playing doesn't help if no one is there to help teach you the correct way...except the players around you are teaching you all the time.

Sports is hardly the only place people learn from interacting with their peers. Having a good teacher will improve the lessons, but playing even without help will still make you a better player than not playing will.


Roy learns about having the chair pulled on him more from having it happen than from me yelling "don't let him pull the chair on you".

Naptown_Seth
03-31-2011, 08:56 PM
Yes, the ball movement and player movement resulted exclusively in Mike's shooting stats. Nothing else. :rolleyes:
It's the same junk that is thrown at McBob.

Plays that don't count in the box - Josh brings up his own rebound, goes behind the back on the dribble, kicks to a wide open Danny who misses the jumper. Rebound gets sent back out to Josh, he dumps a great pass to Roy at the rim, Roy double fakes instead of going straight up and draws the foul without the basket.

The Pacers get points, the Pacers got 2 great looks, Josh got zero stats for this.


Dun has flaws and is sometimes overrated in areas, but his offensive awareness and movement is not one of them. I think Rush is underrated there, so I still like using him also, but I 100% respect Dun's overall offensive game.

There is no stat for "my movement helped get someone else open".

Will Galen
03-31-2011, 08:59 PM
Another example.

Your examples aren't proving your point like you think they are. Yes people are pointing out that Mike fills a need for a scorer on the second unit, but he helps the whole unit by getting the ball moving etc.

Will Galen
03-31-2011, 09:03 PM
And Steve Kerr on a recent Simmons podcast where he says it's absolutely worthless to think you can develop at all without playing time. He is talking about why players shouldn't come out too soon because the NCAA development they will get will be far better for them, much more interaction, coaching and playing time.

Practice drills tell you jack squat about how a guy plays the game. That thinking is what has some GMs making stupid choices based on combines and one on one workouts.

PLAYING is the test of how well you PLAY.

Bender = greatest practice player ever...do you really want to continue to take this side of the debate?



BTW, you very much did tell me that Rush being benched for Dun in his rookie year had no impact on his development, that he needed to watch from the bench in order to develop. Just like you always say that playing doesn't help if no one is there to help teach you the correct way...except the players around you are teaching you all the time.

Sports is hardly the only place people learn from interacting with their peers. Having a good teacher will improve the lessons, but playing even without help will still make you a better player than not playing will.


Roy learns about having the chair pulled on him more from having it happen than from me yelling "don't let him pull the chair on you".

It appears to me your answer didn't have much to do with BillS's comment.

vnzla81
03-31-2011, 09:32 PM
Your examples aren't proving your point like you think they are. Yes people are pointing out that Mike fills a need for a scorer on the second unit, but he helps the whole unit by getting the ball moving etc.

I agree, the ball moves better in the second unit with Dunleavy no question about that.

Sookie
04-01-2011, 12:34 PM
It's the same junk that is thrown at McBob.

Plays that don't count in the box - Josh brings up his own rebound, goes behind the back on the dribble, kicks to a wide open Danny who misses the jumper. Rebound gets sent back out to Josh, he dumps a great pass to Roy at the rim, Roy double fakes instead of going straight up and draws the foul without the basket.

The Pacers get points, the Pacers got 2 great looks, Josh got zero stats for this.


Dun has flaws and is sometimes overrated in areas, but his offensive awareness and movement is not one of them. I think Rush is underrated there, so I still like using him also, but I 100% respect Dun's overall offensive game.

There is no stat for "my movement helped get someone else open".

Sometimes. Sometimes he just stands in the corner and does nothing.

I do think Brandon's offensive awareness and movement is better than what he always shows. But I just think you're right, and he really doesn't understand the structure of the offense all the time (because it's not very structured)

Something to watch for..as they gell..the AJ, Dun, Rush, Josh, Roy (bench + Roy) rotation, should be interesting..in a good way.

CableKC
04-01-2011, 01:40 PM
Something to watch for..as they gell..the AJ, Dun, Rush, Josh, Roy (bench + Roy) rotation, should be interesting..in a good way.
They will be the smartest Basketball IQ 2nd unit with the best offensive awareness in the whole league!

If they start "gelling"....then would you rather have the original "Goon Squad" ( AJ / Inferno / PG / Hansbrough / Foster ) that is tough-nosed-feisty lineup or the "High-IQ Bunch" ( AJ / BRush / Dunleavy / McBob / Foster ) in the 2nd unit?

Sookie
04-01-2011, 02:43 PM
They will be the smartest Basketball IQ 2nd unit with the best offensive awareness in the whole league!

If they start "gelling"....then would you rather have the original "Goon Squad" ( AJ / Inferno / PG / Hansbrough / Foster ) that is tough-nosed-feisty lineup or the "High-IQ Bunch" ( AJ / BRush / Dunleavy / McBob / Foster ) in the 2nd unit?

The goon squad

At the end of the day, although I think at times the basketball that the second unit now, will play, will be really pretty basketball. The "goon squad" had a legitimate post scoring threat, and they were tougher defensively.

Still (and especially when they play with Roy) has the potential to play really pretty basketball. Problem is, without Roy..it's going to be very jump shot centered.