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90'sNBARocked
03-28-2011, 01:50 PM
MikeWellsNBA


Mike Dunleavy (broken thumb) has been cleared to play. Not expected to play 2nite vs Boston though due to lack of practice time

Now maybe players will start moving without the ball

90'sNBARocked
03-28-2011, 01:55 PM
FisolaNYDN Early morning sighting at Charlotte airport: former Celtics, Sixers and Pacers coach Jim O'Brien 3:03 AM Mar 27th via Mobile Web Retweeted by MikeWellsNBA

Obie up at 3am ?

Hanging out with Jammal maybe ? :)

PaceBalls
03-28-2011, 01:57 PM
THANK GOD!!

bphil
03-28-2011, 02:16 PM
Absence makes the heart grow fonder... especially on PD.

Speed
03-28-2011, 02:17 PM
Wonder what happens with the rotations and playing time. Brandon is shooting well, PG needs the minutes for continued development, imo. Maybe Danny gets some time a PF? It'll be interesting to see what happens.

What I would do is move PG to the second unit, I wanted him to stay there anyway. However, I'd make him a key offensive generator with the second unit, if not the primary guy. Bench Brandon. Thats completely just my opinion, I could probably see a different argument on it, though.

Unclebuck
03-28-2011, 02:26 PM
If O'Brien were still the coach, he would bench Paul George completely, start Dunleavy and bring Rush off the bench. Have no idea what Vogel will do, but I expect he'll play Mike some regular minutes (depending on how his conditioning is)

Hicks
03-28-2011, 02:28 PM
If they are planning on playing him at all, they should start tonight IMO. Practice first would be ideal, but I don't think it's so important to purposefully withhold a productive player from the game entirely.

He should play tonight IMO. He won't, obviously, but I don't like it.

vnzla81
03-28-2011, 02:30 PM
Yeah the most overrated player on PD is coming back .................. :dance:

pacer4ever
03-28-2011, 02:33 PM
Yeah the most overrated player on PD is coming back .................. :dance:

Ya he is back in time to lead us to the playoffs :laugh::dance::dance::dance::dance:

Speed
03-28-2011, 02:38 PM
If they are planning on playing him at all, they should start tonight IMO. Practice first would be ideal, but I don't think it's so important to purposefully withhold a productive player from the game entirely.

He should play tonight IMO. He won't, obviously, but I don't like it.

I completely agree. It's not a whole new system, its not a player that has trouble understanding how to play. No reason to wait, even if his conditioning is off, you can play him in spurts.

No he's not a savior, but what he brings is one of the things they are sorely missing.

Trophy
03-28-2011, 02:40 PM
I just hope Vogel doesn't go with an 11 man rotation.

vnzla81
03-28-2011, 02:43 PM
If they are planning on playing him at all, they should start tonight IMO. Practice first would be ideal, but I don't think it's so important to purposefully withhold a productive player from the game entirely.

He should play tonight IMO. He won't, obviously, but I don't like it.

Against Boston? Are you expecting a blow out?

Hicks
03-28-2011, 02:43 PM
The 'Dunleavy is a net loss' posts are hilarious in a they're-not-humorous sort of way.

BRushWithDeath
03-28-2011, 02:45 PM
The 'Dunleavy is a net loss' posts are hilarious in a they're-not-humorous sort of way.

In a "Hansbrough is a net gain" sort of way? ;)

Shade
03-28-2011, 02:52 PM
Mike Dunleavy is not walking through that doo...

Oh wait, actually, he is. :D

He's still not the savior at SG, though.

vnzla81
03-28-2011, 02:54 PM
The 'Dunleavy is a net loss' posts are hilarious in a they're-not-humorous sort of way.

It was a serious question, Boston is the second best team in the east and we need to win the game, are you willing to jeopardize that by bringing a guy that hasn't play in like two months? Not only that but who is he going to guard from Pierce,Ray and Green?

Speed
03-28-2011, 02:55 PM
It was a serious question, Boston is the second best team in the east and we need to win the game, are you willing to jeopardize that by bringing a guy that hasn't play in like two months? Not only that but who is he going to guard from Pierce,Ray and Green?

If they hadn't been embarrassed twice over the weekend, I'd agree with you, but they were, badly.

Offense looks stagnant/pathetic. Dun could be a shot in the arm. You still lose the game, likely, but maybe you get Dun some court time in preparation for Detroit and Milwaukee. Milwaukee almost seems like a must win, I mean really a must win, not like when people would post that in January. :)

vnzla81
03-28-2011, 02:56 PM
In a "Josh is as good as Bosh for Miami" sort of way? ;)

Fixed ;)

BRushWithDeath
03-28-2011, 02:59 PM
Fixed ;)

That didn't fix anything I ever said.

Or reference anything I ever said.

sportfireman
03-28-2011, 03:00 PM
While I am not a Dun fan, we do seem to play better with Dun on the floor. Hopefully he can come in and give us a spark. A much needed spark.

vnzla81
03-28-2011, 03:02 PM
If they hadn't been embarrassed twice over the weekend, I'd agree with you, but they were, badly.

Offense looks stagnant/pathetic. Dun could be a shot in the arm. You still lose the game, likely, but maybe you get Dun some court time in preparation for Detroit and Milwaukee. Milwaukee almost seems like a must win, I mean really a must win, not like when people would post that in January. :)

So is Dunleavy playing the point,pf or center position because those are the one that killed us during the last two games.

90'sNBARocked
03-28-2011, 03:09 PM
I dont think its a coincidence at all that the ball movement has become non existent. Bash Dun all you want ( I dont want to be a hypocrite here cause I have beat Dun up to)

but he is a very very gifted offensive player, and while his defense is below average , his team defense is not

Glad to have you back buddy :)

Speed
03-28-2011, 03:14 PM
So is Dunleavy playing the point,pf or center position because those are the one that killed us during the last two games.

Nope, but he'll move without the ball and try to get the offense resembling something organized. Look at this point, how can it hurt.

Gamble1
03-28-2011, 03:57 PM
Nope, but he'll move without the ball and try to get the offense resembling something organized. Look at this point, how can it hurt.
I think it can hurt if he can't shoot worth a lick in these last couple of games.

pacergod2
03-28-2011, 04:03 PM
Dunleavy is perfect for our second unit. My four wing rotation would include Granger, Rush, George, and Dunleavy. Dunleavy needs to be on the second unit for his scoring. We hide his defense more there as well.

This might be a hell of an excuse to play Dunleavy at SF again. He is better suited there anyway and if we can use him at SF, it would limit his minutes and bring him back a little slower. I want George and Rush playing the 2. I don't care who starts.

I still think Dunleavy should be suiting up tonight even if he doesn't play. If this game gets out of hand or we need shooters on the floor late in the game, I still would use him.

Psyren
03-28-2011, 04:04 PM
Hooray for really bad defense?

Just kidding...

IN all honesty though, he's good for the second unit because they tend to like to just stand around (as does the first unit for that matter). I just don't know where the minutes come in at, considering Rush is doing his usual "play well for the last 15 games of the year and then continue sucking next year" act that he always does.

Hicks
03-28-2011, 04:12 PM
It was a serious question, Boston is the second best team in the east and we need to win the game, are you willing to jeopardize that by bringing a guy that hasn't play in like two months? Not only that but who is he going to guard from Pierce,Ray and Green?

I guess I'm just getting more and more tired of commentary that centers around what a player can't do.

There are few, if any, players in this league who aren't weak in at least one area, and most of them have more weaknesses than they do strengths, if you consider all aspects of the game. What matters the most is putting them in a situation where their positives impact the team more than their negatives. Many teams find a way to do this with the players whose weaknesses outnumber their strengths.

So I guess I'm done (or close to it, I hope) with worrying about what players can't do, and I'd rather just focus on what they can do.

I was listening to a podcast discussing the draft and NBA scouting, and what someone said that rang true to me is that scouts get in a trap of focusing too much on what a player can't do and not enough on what they can do. I think many of us fall into this same trap, both with the draft and with the players already in the league.

I'm trying to be done with that, more or less. I get no benefit from taking a verbal **** on anyone. But it is still fun for me to speculate on how a player's strengths might help his team win a game.

With all that said, that's what I'm keeping in mind with Dunleavy right now. This team needs more passing, more movement, and more court awareness. For those reasons, I look forward to Mike's return ASAP. That he can occasionally get hot from the outside is a nice perk as well.

pacer4ever
03-28-2011, 04:13 PM
Just when I though our defense couldnt get any worse...............

Hicks
03-28-2011, 04:13 PM
I think it can hurt if he can't shoot worth a lick in these last couple of games.

As opposed to the other Pacers who did shoot worth a lick?

Hicks
03-28-2011, 04:15 PM
Just when I though our defense couldnt get any worse...............

Yes, because that's why any NBA team plays Mike Dunleavy. His defense.

I swear, it's like some of you wouldn't want to ever play any player who doesn't shoot, score, post up, defend all five positions, rebound, share the ball, pass at least as well as Josh McRoberts, and hit 75+% of their free throws.

Gamble1
03-28-2011, 04:16 PM
As opposed to the other Pacers who did shoot worth a lick?
HAHAHA....

As of late your right but they atleast they could play better defense than Dun to compensate for a bad shooting night.

I mean what should we expect from a guy who suffered a pretty bad hand injury?

Hicks
03-28-2011, 04:26 PM
HAHAHA....

As of late your right but they atleast they could play better defense than Dun to compensate for a bad shooting night.

You'd think so, but yet our defense has apparently sucked lately, right?



I mean what should we expect from a guy who suffered a pretty bad hand injury?

I'm not even sure it was that bad. I believe he's right-handed, and this was his left thumb, for one thing, and for another, I can't even remember the specific reason this caused him to miss games. I thought he could still shoot and do basically everything a basketball player needs to do, so I assumed it was simply done to protect the bone from a more serious injury?

pacergod2
03-28-2011, 04:35 PM
Hooray for really bad defense?

Just kidding...

IN all honesty though, he's good for the second unit because they tend to like to just stand around (as does the first unit for that matter). I just don't know where the minutes come in at, considering Rush is doing his usual "play well for the last 15 games of the year and then continue sucking next year" act that he always does.

Brandon Rush sucks at not stealing shots away from other players. I hate that CONSISTENT DEFENSE he gives us every night. If you want him to be Dahntay Jones I think it would make our team worse. I would love to see Collison pass to somebody who is cutting, but that would require him to be patient and make a pass to someone in stride. Also, Granger could stand to lose the tunnel vision when he is outside of 12 feet from the basket. He only opens his eyes when he realizes he doesn't have any room and isn't capable of making those type of bailout passes. Dunleavy is awesome for his movement and shooting. Team defense only gets him so far, so he needs to be on the second unit. AJ Price could really use a couple of guys to pass to on the second unit who aren't a black hole. I think I would also put Rush in the second unit, which would force him to be more aggressive offensively. George then gets some experience with the starting unit. Get Jones out of the consistent rotation. I really like him, but we have four other players who are better on the wings.

I still think Price, Rush, and Dunleavy are a heck of unit. Using McRoberts and Foster on the same unit is great for defensive purposes, but it still gives us a need for more offense. I would like to put Hansborough and Rush on the same unit for longer stretches. I think George and McRoberts are a little more complimentary as well, in terms of the rotation patterns where we diminish weaknesses. I would use Collison/Granger and Price/Dunleavy exclusively together, outside of foul induced changes. Just some thoughts.

Oh and I hope Rush does step up for the last 15 games of the season. They will be more important games the better we get as a team.

Edit: Psyren, I didn't mean for this to come across as bold or offensive. It was more that I was building upon what you and Unclebuck were saying.

CableKC
03-28-2011, 04:40 PM
I guess I'm just getting more and more tired of commentary that centers around what a player can't do.

There are few, if any, players in this league who aren't weak in at least one area, and most of them have more weaknesses than they do strengths, if you consider all aspects of the game. What matters the most is putting them in a situation where their positives impact the team more than their negatives. Many teams find a way to do this with the players whose weaknesses outnumber their strengths.

So I guess I'm done (or close to it, I hope) with worrying about what players can't do, and I'd rather just focus on what they can do.

I was listening to a podcast discussing the draft and NBA scouting, and what someone said that rang true to me is that scouts get in a trap of focusing too much on what a player can't do and not enough on what they can do. I think many of us fall into this same trap, both with the draft and with the players already in the league.

I'm trying to be done with that, more or less. I get no benefit from taking a verbal **** on anyone. But it is still fun for me to speculate on how a player's strengths might help his team win a game.

With all that said, that's what I'm keeping in mind with Dunleavy right now. This team needs more passing, more movement, and more court awareness. For those reasons, I look forward to Mike's return ASAP. That he can occasionally get hot from the outside is a nice perk as well.
I'm totally with you on this......but I do recognize that he does have limitations to his game....that's why I am in favor of getting him a solid 24mpg but playing in the unit where his weaknesses ( that everyone complains about ) can be best masked ( playing him SOLELY at the backup SF spot ) while pairing him with more athletic Wing Players ( either Inferno OR BRush ) and a more active/smart Frontcourt that can play some decent Team Defense.

My preference is to keep PG in the Starting Lineup as the SG mainly because he's solid on the offensive end and his defense is very solid. He's basically more balanced and doesn't have the pressure to contribute on the offensive end as he would have in the 2nd unit. Add in that we wouldn't have to be concerned about Dunleavy's defensive limitations in the Starting Lineup if he is paired with Inferno/BRush.

In the end, I think that the "positives" that he brings to the table will be better utilized in the 2nd unit then in the Starting Lineup...where his defensive liabilities would not be as pronounced.

QuickRelease
03-28-2011, 04:41 PM
Dunleavy is perfect for our second unit. My four wing rotation would include Granger, Rush, George, and Dunleavy. Dunleavy needs to be on the second unit for his scoring. We hide his defense more there as well.

This might be a hell of an excuse to play Dunleavy at SF again. He is better suited there anyway and if we can use him at SF, it would limit his minutes and bring him back a little slower. I want George and Rush playing the 2. I don't care who starts.

I still think Dunleavy should be suiting up tonight even if he doesn't play. If this game gets out of hand or we need shooters on the floor late in the game, I still would use him.I actually think Dunleavy is better with the 1st unit. Paul George and DJones are better with the goon squad IMHO.

pacergod2
03-28-2011, 04:54 PM
I actually think Dunleavy is better with the 1st unit. Paul George and DJones are better with the goon squad IMHO.

I just don't like Dunleavy playing against other teams' starting shooting guards. He is a SF who is long and not quick playing against shorter, quicker players. They will able to drive right around him. If Dunleavy was capable of taking them to the post, I wouldn't object as much. He is a perimeter player though and he can't dribble drive against shorter quicker players. He is a detriment against those players. I shouldn't even bring up DWade because he is awesome, but it seems like every time he starts the opposing SG has created 10+ points in the first quarter largely because they drove around him and either scored or dished for a relatively easy bucket. I don't want my starting unit in foul trouble making up for those defensive lapses. Dunleavy is great at recovering on secondary passing, but it is the initial defensive lapse that creates that movement and often he doesn't have time to recover.

I am not bashing Dunleavy, nor focusing on the negative. I just am being realisitc. I am not being a Brandon Rush homer either. With a 24 second shot clock, it is imperative for a defense to assume the responsibility for their own man for as long as possible. If the defensive collapse comes later in the shot clock, the defense is forcing the offense into a rushed shot due to the increased need for quick passes three or four deep into a possession before a good shot can occur. I have a strong preference for solid defenders. I would rather have a team of strong defenders than strong offensive players, in a vaccuum of basketball theory.

I really love what Dun brings as a ball player, but boy is he not a first unit type of guy. At least not on a playoff team. Should he get 20 minutes per game? Absolutely. I just think he has been a reason for our slow starts because it seems as though the starting units are told to attack Dun off the dribble early and often.

NuffSaid
03-28-2011, 04:58 PM
If they are planning on playing him at all, they should start tonight IMO. Practice first would be ideal, but I don't think it's so important to purposefully withhold a productive player from the game entirely.

He should play tonight IMO. He won't, obviously, but I don't like it.
I think Vogel should play him, sparingly since it is his first game back after a long absence, but he should play. Word is he's been putting in solo time in the practise gym anyway. So, why not?

It will certainly mean limited minutes for either PG or BRush, but I'd do whatever needs to be done to get him back on the court and hopefully shake things up alittle and get a win! The biggest impact I see is the Goon Squad should return to normal. Having Hansborough start has really affected our 2nd Unit's chemistry. Hell, the entire team's chemistry was disrupted by MDjr's absence. Hopefully, getting him back will mean better ball movement and improved consistency all around. Of course, this assumes he'll get decent minutes - atleast 15-20 - and will start.

Psyren
03-28-2011, 05:17 PM
Brandon Rush sucks at not stealing shots away from other players. I hate that CONSISTENT DEFENSE he gives us every night. If you want him to be Dahntay Jones I think it would make our team worse. I would love to see Collison pass to somebody who is cutting, but that would require him to be patient and make a pass to someone in stride. Also, Granger could stand to lose the tunnel vision when he is outside of 12 feet from the basket. He only opens his eyes when he realizes he doesn't have any room and isn't capable of making those type of bailout passes. Dunleavy is awesome for his movement and shooting. Team defense only gets him so far, so he needs to be on the second unit. AJ Price could really use a couple of guys to pass to on the second unit who aren't a black hole. I think I would also put Rush in the second unit, which would force him to be more aggressive offensively. George then gets some experience with the starting unit. Get Jones out of the consistent rotation. I really like him, but we have four other players who are better on the wings.

I still think Price, Rush, and Dunleavy are a heck of unit. Using McRoberts and Foster on the same unit is great for defensive purposes, but it still gives us a need for more offense. I would like to put Hansborough and Rush on the same unit for longer stretches. I think George and McRoberts are a little more complimentary as well, in terms of the rotation patterns where we diminish weaknesses. I would use Collison/Granger and Price/Dunleavy exclusively together, outside of foul induced changes. Just some thoughts.

Oh and I hope Rush does step up for the last 15 games of the season. They will be more important games the better we get as a team.

Edit: Psyren, I didn't mean for this to come across as bold or offensive. It was more that I was building upon what you and Unclebuck were saying.

:p Don't worry about it. Disagreement is always welcome .

We'll agree to disagree :p

Eleazar
03-28-2011, 06:00 PM
Dunleavy is perfect for our second unit. My four wing rotation would include Granger, Rush, George, and Dunleavy. Dunleavy needs to be on the second unit for his scoring. We hide his defense more there as well.

This might be a hell of an excuse to play Dunleavy at SF again. He is better suited there anyway and if we can use him at SF, it would limit his minutes and bring him back a little slower. I want George and Rush playing the 2. I don't care who starts.

I still think Dunleavy should be suiting up tonight even if he doesn't play. If this game gets out of hand or we need shooters on the floor late in the game, I still would use him.

I agree.

On the point of dressing Dunleavy, if it is a blow out it would give Dunleavy a chance to knock off some of the rust he most likely has collected over the past month.

imbtyler
03-28-2011, 06:22 PM
My biggest issue with Dunleavy coming back is that we'll get attached to him, especially if he "helps" us get to the Playoffs, and reactively re-sign him in the offseason. There will be better replacements for him, but knowing our FO, we'll bring him back instead of relieving cap space and looking for better players (who exist).

imbtyler
03-28-2011, 06:36 PM
@MikeWellsNBA

"Dunleavy to dress but Vogel said he's not (sure) if he's going to use him tonight vs the Celtics"