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fwpacerfan
09-24-2004, 03:55 PM
Conrad Brunner says Bender has grown to 7'1" and 240 lbs. That is JO size. He could be unbelievable.


http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/question_040924.html

Suaveness
09-24-2004, 04:06 PM
Whatever. Getting bigger doesn't mean a thing. Once he starts producing on the court, then can I be excited.

ABADays
09-24-2004, 04:17 PM
Ho hum. Probably another way to get hurt.

Bball
09-24-2004, 04:23 PM
Am I the only one skeptical of a mid 20's yr old man growing an inch in height? That has to be well past any normal growth periods.

Did I miss my serving of Koolaid?

:o

-Bball

Stryder
09-24-2004, 04:24 PM
Am I the only one skeptical of a mid 20's yr old man growing an inch in height? That has to be well past any normal growth periods.

Did I miss my serving of Koolaid?

:o

-Bball

He's 23.

DisplacedKnick
09-24-2004, 04:31 PM
Another inch of uselessness.

Congrats on that.

Hicks
09-24-2004, 04:33 PM
Uh, the weight is the key here, people; I don't know why so many of you are focusing on just the height; probably because you're used to blowing Bender off at this point as a nobody. It's a shame. :shrug:

I think his gaining 20 pounds is terrific.

ChicagoJ
09-24-2004, 04:37 PM
We've been told before that he's been up to 230 lbs, but he was 219 last season. So the key is, can he keep his weight up at 240 once training camp begins?

And more importantly, is Bruno reading the scale at 233 and rounding it up to 240?

Unclebuck
09-24-2004, 04:43 PM
I am shocked by the level of skepticism and cynicism when it comes to Bender.

Oh well, I suppose I am going to add to it.

There is nothing more overrated than height and weight. hat means nothing to me. Let's se him on the court, which I am by the way very excited about.

kerosene
09-24-2004, 04:44 PM
He's going to revolutionize the buffet industry :cool:

sweabs
09-24-2004, 04:52 PM
Well, UB - height and weight will certainly help him a little more down low...that is, if Rick decides to play him there.

unstandable
09-24-2004, 05:06 PM
Yeah, that's my question. From what I've seen of Bender he has a perimeter oriented game based on jumpshooting and driving to the basket. I can understand how added weight would help if his game were all about back to the basket post play, but it doesn't seem like it is. Do the Pacers want him to play inside more? The weight would definitely help with that, but it could also slow him down if he's still playing on the perimeter.

Defensively however, I think the added weight can only help him.

indygeezer
09-24-2004, 05:10 PM
Ah ye of little faith.

I've delivered the message, now be prepared.




Perhaps we won't need that trade for another big.

MSA2CF
09-24-2004, 05:16 PM
What does Kevin Garnett weigh and measure at?

indygeezer
09-24-2004, 05:20 PM
Both HoopsHype and ESPN list him at 6'11". One says 220 lbs the othe says 237.



I'd say about 160

Young
09-24-2004, 05:28 PM
I don't really care to much about the height.

But the weight, that is awesome. If he can keep it up of course. This may help with all of his injury problems and also may allow him to play PF and maybe some C.

DisplacedKnick
09-24-2004, 05:52 PM
What does Kevin Garnett weigh and measure at?

Why? Do the words "Kevin Garnett" and Jon Bender" deserve to be spoken in the same sentence for some reason?

TheSauceMaster
09-24-2004, 05:54 PM
Whatever. Getting bigger doesn't mean a thing. Once he starts producing on the court, then can I be excited.

:amen::amen::amen::amen:

DisplacedKnick
09-24-2004, 05:55 PM
I am shocked by the level of skepticism and cynicism when it comes to Bender.




Skepticism? I'm very confident that he can continue to average 7 pts and 3 rebounds/game.

I entirely believe what I've seen. Not Skeptical about it at all. I very much doubt that it's a fluke.

SoupIsGood
09-24-2004, 06:00 PM
What does Kevin Garnett weigh and measure at?

Why? Do the words "Kevin Garnett" and Jon Bender" deserve to be spoken in the same sentence for some reason?


But they weren't... except by you.

MagicRat
09-24-2004, 06:16 PM
What does Kevin Garnett weigh and measure at?

Why? Do the words "Kevin Garnett" and Jon Bender" deserve to be spoken in the same sentence for some reason?


You'll have to ask Geezer about that......

Burt_Reincarnated
09-24-2004, 06:25 PM
You think he is on some steroids or HGH or something? thats just not normal

Anthem
09-24-2004, 08:32 PM
So, this kinda kills that "Bender as a SG" right?

Hicks
09-24-2004, 08:33 PM
I hope so.

Anthem
09-24-2004, 08:55 PM
I am shocked by the level of skepticism and cynicism when it comes to Bender.



Skepticism? I'm very confident that he can continue to average 7 pts and 3 rebounds/game.

I entirely believe what I've seen. Not Skeptical about it at all. I very much doubt that it's a fluke.


I seem to recall you saying that Bender could become an impact player if he gave up on the perimeter player idea and focused on working the paint.

You may be proven right.

ROCislandWarrior
09-24-2004, 09:17 PM
LMAO at all of you who keep saying "I don't care what he has done to his body over the offseason" because you would all be the first to rip him if you heard he was only 6'11" and 200lbs coming into camp.

This really helps Bender with his post D. Since we are in the EC I would love to see alot of Bender and O'neal as the bigs. Bender would really help free up O'neal down low more so than Foster, Pollard and even Croshere. Because Bender is so long and athletic, his man can't even cheat a little because he would cut to the hoop and JO could simply toss him the ball. Like with KG, once he gets the angle on you, goodnight.

This is all assuming Bender stays at 240 and can play through the pain. The thing is, this year the team needs him. Last year and the year before we didn't because we had Ron and Al. I think Bird traded away Al knowing fully that he had a player waiting to explode on the bench. Bender won't sit out with nagging little injuries anymore. I am sure that JO, Ron and even Reggie won't stand for that because now they need him.

Worst Case Scenario: Bender slightly improves but still misses quite a few games leaving SJax and FJ more time.

Best Case Scenario: Bender holds his own and finds his groove with CONSISTENT PT while he fills Al's role as 6th man playing SF/PF and some C.

SycamoreKen
09-25-2004, 09:46 AM
What does Kevin Garnett weigh and measure at?

Nba.com has him at 6'11" and 240

Kstat
09-25-2004, 10:26 AM
What would be the most terrifying headliness in the NBA?

"Bender reportedly learns to bounce-pass"

"Bender finally learns how to set a screen"

"Bender is pump-faked and DOESN'T jump 3 feet in the air."

"Bender learns how to outlet pass"

"Bender adds a jump-hook to his game."

"Bender actually goes through a whole game WITHOUT turning the ball over against a trap"

;)

Suaveness
09-25-2004, 11:06 AM
or "Bender goes through an entire game......an ENTIRE GAME!"

or "Bender plays more than he sits!"

RWB
09-25-2004, 12:36 PM
What would be the most terrifying headliness in the NBA?

"Bender reportedly learns to bounce-pass"

"Bender finally learns how to set a screen"

"Bender is pump-faked and DOESN'T jump 3 feet in the air."

"Bender learns how to outlet pass"

"Bender adds a jump-hook to his game."

"Bender actually goes through a whole game WITHOUT turning the ball over against a trap"

;)

Admit it, we could say the same thing about 70% of the players in the NBA now.

Mark me down with the few that believe this will be Bender's breakout year. I think he has been coming out of his shell (terrible introvert) and is gaining more confidence.

If 5.1 doesn't come around I promise I'll stop worshiping the guy. ;)

Kstat
09-25-2004, 04:23 PM
What would be the most terrifying headliness in the NBA?

"Bender reportedly learns to bounce-pass"

"Bender finally learns how to set a screen"

"Bender is pump-faked and DOESN'T jump 3 feet in the air."

"Bender learns how to outlet pass"

"Bender adds a jump-hook to his game."

"Bender actually goes through a whole game WITHOUT turning the ball over against a trap"

;)

Admit it, we could say the same thing about 70% of the players in the NBA now.

Mark me down with the few that believe this will be Bender's breakout year. I think he has been coming out of his shell (terrible introvert) and is gaining more confidence.

If 5.1 doesn't come around I promise I'll stop worshiping the guy. ;)



First of all, thats a poor excuse, and secondly, nobody thats been a bender fanatic thusfar is going to suddenly stop beign one if he has another subpar season.

Yeah, some NBA players lack some of the above skills, bur Bender is one of the very few that lacks ALL of them.....

RWB
09-25-2004, 04:52 PM
Sorry to have a little fun there Kstat. How many games have you seen Bender play (and no don't throw in he's injured so much not many)? How do you know he doesn't know how to make a bounce pass? Has he ever been fooled on a pump fake (sure has). Has he ever swatted the hell out of someone's shot (you better believe it)? He's been forced to play on the perimeter (coaches decision I believe) so should he be throwing up hook shots from the outside? Bottom line here is if Bender is NOT doing what the Pacer staff has asked of him or have the faith he is making progress then he would have been long gone.

Kstat
09-25-2004, 05:22 PM
Sorry to have a little fun there Kstat. How many games have you seen Bender play (and no don't throw in he's injured so much not many)?

Over the last two years, as many as anyone else here.


how do you know he doesn't know how to make a bounce pass?

Um...because he's never done it before?


Has he ever been fooled on a pump fake

Has he ever NOT been fooled ona pump fake?


Has he ever swatted the hell out of someone's shot

Well yeah, classic allen Iverson theory. If you jump up every time soneone moves their head, you're eventually going to block SOMETHING....


He's been forced to play on the perimeter (coaches decision I believe) so should he be throwing up hook shots from the outside?

If he had any clue whatsoever how to play in the post, do you honestly think they'd be sticking him 25 feet from the basket? He's 7 feet tall for christ's sake.....they dont stick him there because they want to.....


Bottom line here is if Bender is NOT doing what the Pacer staff has asked of him or have the faith he is making progress then he would have been long gone.

...and if Bender wasn't the 5th pick in the draft, he would have been long gone.

I think Donnie Walsh would rather cut off his right arm than admit he made a mistake in trading AD for Bender.....Bender isn't going anywhere.

For anyone who's given an honest look at Bender, you just have to look at his mannerisms. He's at his best when he's the 5th guy on the court, and he can roam around and make plays with no pressure. But in high-pressure situations, when defenses begin to focus in on him, his eyes get big as saucers, and he gets this huge deer-in-the-headlights look. Typically, thats when he makes a bad mental mistake.

Destined4Greatness
09-25-2004, 05:43 PM
Amazing how KStat can type so much, and manage to say nothing at all.

DisplacedKnick
09-25-2004, 06:53 PM
I am shocked by the level of skepticism and cynicism when it comes to Bender.



Skepticism? I'm very confident that he can continue to average 7 pts and 3 rebounds/game.

I entirely believe what I've seen. Not Skeptical about it at all. I very much doubt that it's a fluke.


I seem to recall you saying that Bender could become an impact player if he gave up on the perimeter player idea and focused on working the paint.

You may be proven right.

I've said I think it's his only shot at becoming an impact player - but he has to have an affinity for it - not mind phyisical play, be able to battle for post position, etc.. So far I haven't seen it.

Plus he's chronically injured so it's probably irrelevant.

SoupIsGood
09-25-2004, 07:26 PM
Amazing how KStat can type so much, and manage to say nothing at all.


Okay, I wrote a response, but it has disappeared.

I'm short on time, so I'll just say your constant bashing of KStat is getting old really, people can be fans of other teams, have different opinions.

Destined4Greatness
09-25-2004, 08:39 PM
Hey I hate Bender more than Kstat I am 100% sure of that, he just didn't say anything. And you bash me, saying that it is getting old how I bash him. You state people should be able to have their own opinions. But you bash me for stating an opinion.

Guess what that makes you, a hypocrite, as I have told you before.

Little tip, when you suggest somebody not do something, don't do it at the same time.

Hicks
09-25-2004, 08:41 PM
Constantly hounding Kstat is getting old. If you disagree, try stating your own opinion, instead of just bashing his.

SoupIsGood
09-25-2004, 09:26 PM
Hey I hate Bender more than Kstat I am 100% sure of that, he just didn't say anything. And you bash me, saying that it is getting old how I bash him. You state people should be able to have their own opinions. But you bash me for stating an opinion.

Guess what that makes you, a hypocrite, as I have told you before.

Little tip, when you suggest somebody not do something, don't do it at the same time.

Okay man, whatever you say. I'm tired of this, you keep coming with thi hypocrite stuff, whatever. I'm out.

SoupIsGood
09-26-2004, 12:26 AM
Constantly hounding Kstat is getting old. If you disagree, try stating your own opinion, instead of just bashing his.

Kstats constantly hounding Pacers is getting old.



The offseason is getting old.

Let's play the games!

Young
09-26-2004, 12:28 AM
Kstat is actually right about Bender for the most part because Bender hasn't really played much and the time he has, he isn't really good playing under the focus of the defense.

BTW: In Bender's defense about not playing in the post, he probably never really had to. A senior on the local HS b-ball team was a 5'11 point guard his freshmen season. That year he grew 4 inches and grew to 6'7 his junior year. So him being a point guard before he had great perminter skills and not so great post skills. Compared to the center, 6'7, a skilled post player who has played down there most of his playing days.

My point is Bender may have hit a late growth spurt or something. I'm not saying he grew a foot in HS but maybe he wasn't always the talest when he first started bball and worked on his perminter skills. Just because he is not the fantasy 7 foot post playing center doesn't mean it is a bad thing. Just ask Kevin Garnett.

Kstat
09-26-2004, 12:36 AM
Constantly hounding Kstat is getting old. If you disagree, try stating your own opinion, instead of just bashing his.

Kstats constantly hounding Pacers is getting old.


....and yet somehow strangely accurate......

btw, people may wonder why I never respond to people throwing thoughtless insults my way. Its because simply, they arent worth my time. I post lucid and thoughtful arguments, and all the above posters can respond with is, "Um,...er.....pistons suck....baaaaah"

Its been so long since someone actually responded with ACTUAL THOUGHT, I'm beginning to wonder.....

Maybe they're just mad because simply, they'll never be as good as I am, and they know it.;) I think every insult they throw my way just further reinforces my belief in that matter.

SIG, Hicks, you dont need to stick up for me, just let them display their little 12-year old rants for the whole forum to :laugh: at. The longtimers on this forum can respond to each other like civilized adults, like we usually do.

Kstat
09-26-2004, 12:42 AM
Kstat is actually right about Bender for the most part because Bender hasn't really played much and the time he has, he isn't really good playing under the focus of the defense.

BTW: In Bender's defense about not playing in the post, he probably never really had to. A senior on the local HS b-ball team was a 5'11 point guard his freshmen season. That year he grew 4 inches and grew to 6'7 his junior year. So him being a point guard before he had great perminter skills and not so great post skills. Compared to the center, 6'7, a skilled post player who has played down there most of his playing days.

My point is Bender may have hit a late growth spurt or something. I'm not saying he grew a foot in HS but maybe he wasn't always the talest when he first started bball and worked on his perminter skills. Just because he is not the fantasy 7 foot post playing center doesn't mean it is a bad thing. Just ask Kevin Garnett.

I agre with most of that except that Kevin Garnett DOES have a very polished post game. He just isn't very overpowering.

SoupIsGood
09-26-2004, 01:44 AM
btw, people may wonder why I never respond to people throwing thoughtless insults my way. Its because simply, they arent worth my time


How did this guy win Poster you love to hate. What class.

Two thumbs up for KStat. I'm not good enough to ignore silly comments. I think it's the excessive boredom of the offseason and end of summer, I need something to write/do.

Kstat
09-26-2004, 01:54 AM
How did this guy win Poster you love to hate. What class.

Well, the eastern conference finals had a lot to do with that.....:laugh: I knew when we won game 6 that i'd be a shoe-in for the award.....

As I recall, the nominees were me and three guys that have since been banned from this forum...:laugh:

If the Knicks upset Indy next year, I figure Rimfire will win the award hands-down....;)

MSA2CF
09-26-2004, 05:58 AM
All I know is that Jon first dunked a ball in the 8th grade.

I learned that at a Pacers game. :proud:

RWB
09-26-2004, 09:45 AM
Constantly hounding Kstat is getting old. If you disagree, try stating your own opinion, instead of just bashing his.

Kstats constantly hounding Pacers is getting old.


....and yet somehow strangely accurate......

btw, people may wonder why I never respond to people throwing thoughtless insults my way. Its because simply, they arent worth my time. I post lucid and thoughtful arguments, and all the above posters can respond with is, "Um,...er.....pistons suck....baaaaah"

Its been so long since someone actually responded with ACTUAL THOUGHT, I'm beginning to wonder.....

Maybe they're just mad because simply, they'll never be as good as I am, and they know it.;) I think every insult they throw my way just further reinforces my belief in that matter.

SIG, Hicks, you dont need to stick up for me, just let them display their little 12-year old rants for the whole forum to :laugh: at. The longtimers on this forum can respond to each other like civilized adults, like we usually do.



Well I didn't mean for this to turn into some pissing contest. Call it blind loyalty or whatever but yes I believe Bender will make an impact this season. Honestly if you need me to point out a specific thing he has done this off season I simply can't. I haven't been to any practices, or there when he's lifting, etc.
ATTENTION: This is not a slam against anyone and does not make me an expert....My faith or belief comes from being a parent and watching how my kids have grown and their friends matured over the years. It is amazing how just a year can make a difference and I think Bender is finally at that point. Bender's maturity level will make the difference this year.

MagicRat
09-26-2004, 10:31 AM
http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/Pacers-Kings5.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/Pacers-Kings6.jpg

Kstat
09-26-2004, 11:14 AM
Constantly hounding Kstat is getting old. If you disagree, try stating your own opinion, instead of just bashing his.

Kstats constantly hounding Pacers is getting old.


....and yet somehow strangely accurate......

btw, people may wonder why I never respond to people throwing thoughtless insults my way. Its because simply, they arent worth my time. I post lucid and thoughtful arguments, and all the above posters can respond with is, "Um,...er.....pistons suck....baaaaah"

Its been so long since someone actually responded with ACTUAL THOUGHT, I'm beginning to wonder.....

Maybe they're just mad because simply, they'll never be as good as I am, and they know it.;) I think every insult they throw my way just further reinforces my belief in that matter.

SIG, Hicks, you dont need to stick up for me, just let them display their little 12-year old rants for the whole forum to :laugh: at. The longtimers on this forum can respond to each other like civilized adults, like we usually do.



Well I didn't mean for this to turn into some pissing contest. Call it blind loyalty or whatever but yes I believe Bender will make an impact this season. Honestly if you need me to point out a specific thing he has done this off season I simply can't. I haven't been to any practices, or there when he's lifting, etc.
ATTENTION: This is not a slam against anyone and does not make me an expert....My faith or belief comes from being a parent and watching how my kids have grown and their friends matured over the years. It is amazing how just a year can make a difference and I think Bender is finally at that point. Bender's maturity level will make the difference this year.


Don't sweat it, RWB, I wasn't referring to you.

Hicks
09-26-2004, 11:47 AM
Constantly hounding Kstat is getting old. If you disagree, try stating your own opinion, instead of just bashing his.

Kstats constantly hounding Pacers is getting old.


This is also true. A lot of cynicism thrown the Pacers way lately.

Hicks
09-26-2004, 11:55 AM
Although I want to clarify my last statement. It's not that Kstat comes here just to troll on the Pacers, he doesn't do that. So before anyone wants to go off on a tangent claiming that, save your energy.

But I do think that it seems like most of the responses Kstat has made lately seem to be any time where it's something negative that can be said about the Pacers. Meaning when he says something, and it's negative, it's usually got a lot of truth to it, but since I don't see the same activity in response to any positive Pacer threads, it comes across as sort-of anti-Pacers, even when I know better.

And when it's on a thread about ripping Bender apart, and I'm one of the few remaining semi-optimists about JB, it tends to sting more. :mad: :( :cool:

Hicks
09-26-2004, 12:01 PM
But yeah, I'm still (strangely?) optimistic about Bender finally being good this year. I don't over-emphasize his mental weaknesses like I feel many do, and I don't think they're as awful as some make them out to be, but they are there.

My optimism mainly comes from the fact that I watch him pretty closely any time he's in the game, and every season, and particularly last year, he kept gradually looking more and more ready to produce to me. It's just a feeling; like RWB I don't have stats/references to back me up. So I'm optimistic right now because it's another year further along to being ready, and I think over the first half of this season he will officially be a producer, because now he will be given Al Harrington's role on the team (Backup PF/SF, major minutes), and that that large playing time, combined with a very consistant role, and the addition of 20lbs of presumably muscle to help him from getting nagging injuries or being thrown around in the post, will result in him becoming a true producer that we'll (mostly) all be happy to have on the team.

hoopsforlife
09-26-2004, 12:05 PM
Although I want to clarify my last statement. It's not that Kstat comes here just to troll on the Pacers, he doesn't do that. So before anyone wants to go off on a tangent claiming that, save your energy.

But I do think that it seems like most of the responses Kstat has made lately seem to be any time where it's something negative that can be said about the Pacers. Meaning when he says something, and it's negative, it's usually got a lot of truth to it, but since I don't see the same activity in response to any positive Pacer threads, it comes across as sort-of anti-Pacers, even when I know better.

And when it's on a thread about ripping Bender apart, and I'm one of the few remaining semi-optimists about JB, it tends to sting more. :mad: :( :cool:

I saw flashes of Bender's ability last year and started to believe in his potential as well. He is just now coming into a mans body. If he can attain a mans mental status (concerning basketball) he will be a force in this league for several years. I believe this years Pacer team will finally reach the top of the heap and Bender could have a great deal to do with that success. ;)

Go Pacers :angel:

RWB
09-26-2004, 12:20 PM
Your right Hicks we're not really blind to the fact Bender is way behind where we want or think he should have been. I know everyone hates that word potential, but as others have pointed out better than I can Bender DOES have the physical tools to be special. How many people in this league turn out to be franchise players? Not very many and the Al Harringtons, SJax, Antoine Walkers are a dime a dozen. This is why I personally have been patient with this guy. Walsh rolled the dice and up to this point it hasn't panned out. At the end of this season we're going to say Dear God what a major bust or WOW that's what Donnie saw. Being an introvert, lack of maturity, and no defined role along with the injuries has stunted his growth.

Maybe that's why Bird likes Bender. Bird was and still is an introvert. The difference is Bird's basketball skills were never in question. But he's like Bender in he lacked self confidence, enough he couldn't play for Knight at IU.

SoupIsGood
09-26-2004, 02:41 PM
I think if Bender is ever going to amount to anything, it is going to be this year. He's set up to be a big part of them team, and he is either going to succeed or fall flat on his face. I really hope he succeeds. If he reaches all-star quality, we could move JO officialy to center, which is pretty much what he plays anyway.

An all-star starting frontcourt would equal very good chance at a championship.

However, if he does fall on his face, we may not even make the ECF again. I think he will have that big of an impact, we're really counting on him, and so far, with his extra 20 lbs, he has responded.

indygeezer
09-27-2004, 09:46 AM
Bender WILL be special. I can feel it. It WILL happen.

Fool
09-27-2004, 10:27 AM
Won't adding more weight and asking him to go play down low mean more injuries not less? Or have his injuries been do to his 7 foot frame trying to play low center of gravity ball like a guard (ankle breaks, lower ligament pulls, general lower body joint problems, and the like) ?

able
09-27-2004, 10:33 AM
the only problems JB had all this time were the factual ones: he had not grown into his body,

Now if he adds some bball smarts to his brain, with some help from other players/coach we might actually be in for a surprise or should i say, finally get to see what is there.

And there is a lot there, that we have seen.

fwpacerfan
09-27-2004, 10:59 AM
I have a semi-serious question - Do the Pacers have a Psychologist on staff? If they don't they should.

This thread has come down to the same conclusion the Artest thread did - these guys are very, very talented but the main area they need to work on is their mental approach. I think Bender adding 20 lbs. will help with his injuries greatly, if the weight is muscle and is in the right proportions. From what I've read it is. The other part of his injury issue is mental. He seems to not have the ability to fight through pain like the rest of the team. I hope seeing the effort JO and Tinsley gave in the ECF will rub off on 5.1. He is a legitimate 20/10 threat, even off the bench. I have a funny feeling he will get 6th man of the year this year and I don't think we'll be hearing "I want to start" from Bender.

Suaveness
09-27-2004, 11:18 AM
Bender is going to have the same problems he did last year. I'm sorry to say that. He still has not proven that he has a basketball IQ larger than a DUCK, or that he can stay healthy. Gaining 20 pounds and an inch does not make him not injury-prone anymore. As much as I hate to say it, I am going to concur with kstat on this one.

able
09-27-2004, 11:30 AM
I am concurring with no one on this, most certainly not with those who have no hope left.

I am not under the impression that I know more then the P's staff, therefore I have some faith left.

avoiding injury is also something that can come with age, it depends a whole lot on growth whether bones are easily hurt or not, JB was to young when he entered the league, he had not even stopped growing, henceforth his injuries can easily have been aggrivated by that.

He's gonna be a pleasant surprise to most of you.

Bball
09-27-2004, 02:24 PM
Anyone who still expects Bender to be 'special' and a 'superstar' type player has been drinking way too much Koolaid.

The best we can hope for out of Bender is that he is a servicable utility type player that can create some matchup problems on the offensive end in more than a few situations. And he's likely a career 6th man at best. He will always be a defensive liability because he has no position he can actually excel at defensively. Blocked shots do not a true defender make.

He's too slow and gawky for SF and SG. He's too soft for the work down low as a PF and IMHO the Pacers don't have much in the way of options to cover that up.

We've seen plenty of Bender to know that the 'superstar' stuff ain't coming. The remaining question is whether a good coach and system can make him a servicable 6th man.... or at least offense for the second unit.



-Bball

Bball
09-27-2004, 02:29 PM
Maybe that's why Bird likes Bender. Bird was and still is an introvert. The difference is Bird's basketball skills were never in question. But he's like Bender in he lacked self confidence, enough he couldn't play for Knight at IU.

Bird lacked in self-confidence? I seriously doubt a lack of self-confidence is why he left IU. If anything it was his self-confidence that caused him to leave IU. And his leaving IU was probably one of the best decisions he ever made.

-Bball

ChicagoJ
09-27-2004, 02:41 PM
If I remember the story correctly, Kent Bensen chased away Bird before the team even had its first practice in 1974.

From the stories I've heard, Benny was a difficult son-of-a-gun to get along with. :shrug:

Bball
09-27-2004, 02:52 PM
If I remember the story correctly, Kent Bensen chased away Bird before the team even had its first practice in 1974.

From the stories I've heard, Benny was a difficult son-of-a-gun to get along with. :shrug:

You remember the story correctly and Bird never let a chance go by in the NBA to effect some payback on KB.

-Bball

Slick Pinkham
09-27-2004, 03:02 PM
Bird has said that he would have been better sooner if he had stayed at IU.

The true story is that Bird came on campus to practice with other players in the summer. Quinn Buckner and a few of the other team leaders were away with a traveling Big 10 or USA team.

Benson and some other guys decided that freshman deserved some hazing, and should be told that they were not worthy of practicing with the returning players. Bird was not allowed to play in their pickup games. Larry had no friends on campus, almost no spending money, only a bare minimum of not-so-nice clothes, and nothing much to do.

His roomate Jim Wisman was apparently a rich kid man-about -campus and Bird disliked him from the start.

Without basketball, he finally got homesick and said "F it, why am I hanging around here?"

Quinn Buckner has said that had he been on campus instead of with the touring team, he would have allowed Bird to play.

There might be more banners in Assembly Hall had that been the case.

Slick Pinkham
09-27-2004, 03:05 PM
with regard to the payback on Benson-- some of the stories are precious.

Kevin McHale was scorching Benson one night.

Bird just kept feeding McHale every single time Benson was on him. McHale scored 56 and Bird had about 15 assists.

fwpacerfan
09-27-2004, 03:26 PM
Larry Bird can carry a grudge like no one. The story where McHale was killing Benson and Bird kept getting him the ball is priceless.

sweabs
09-27-2004, 03:42 PM
All in favour of fwpacerfan changing his avatar say "I"..........:laugh:

ChicagoJ
09-27-2004, 03:56 PM
:shudder: What in the world is that picture, fw?

Natston
09-27-2004, 04:34 PM
I think it's Kerry's twin sister... :o

MSA2CF
09-27-2004, 05:38 PM
I like it! :nod:

Bball
09-27-2004, 05:54 PM
AYE!!!!!:o

-Bball

Eindar
09-27-2004, 07:50 PM
This is the year for Bender. With the help of the Pacers training staff, he added to his core weight, which will help his center of gravity. Last year, when healthy and the primary post weapon, Bender took it down low almost every possession against the small forward guarding him. He often drew double teams, as a result. If you don't think he was dangerous last year in the post, watch some game tape. First time he got the ball, he scored in the post. Second and subsequent times, he was double teamed. You combine him in the post with someone like SJax as the cutter or shooter, that is a DANGEROUS combo as backups. Also, at this weight, Bender can now play PF or C for us. assuming the addition of core weight helps him stay injury free, Bender = championship for us this year.

You heard it here first :)

waxman
09-28-2004, 05:38 PM
I saw some postives signs from Bender last year....

He looked more confident when he got his chances... and usually made an impact on the game right away.

He did learn to handle the double teams better....at least in the post.... usually being able to dribble out of them while finding the correct man according to defensive rotations.

He certainly isn't perfect....most of his turnovers were when driving the lane and getting stripped.... It'll happen....he was also successful at getting into the lane...and either finishing....getting fouled or drawing and kicking for the open perimeter shot... His passing got better last year I thought...

If he gets a chance to play through some of his mistakes... I think it would help him learn the parameters of his game better and boost his confidence.... Anyone would play scared knowing they'd get yanked at the slightest error.

His D got much better IMO... he was better at being able to keep his man in front of him....he does go for pump fakes but usually is able to recover with his length and atheltic ability... Plus he'll learn to control that with more PT...so I don't consider that a big deal.

I would like to see him improve his court awareness(which is getting better), knowledge of game situations,, passing and rebouding. All come with playing time...which has been limited or inconsistant at best because of injury or the depth of talent in front of him at his positions.

The haters accentuate and exaggerate some of his weaknesses in order to validate there dislike of his game.... thats fine.... he's had a handful of years in the league already.... its been frustrating for all of us.

Superstar?...who knows.... but can be a huge impact player if given Al Harrington type minutes.

indygeezer
09-28-2004, 05:52 PM
Larry Bird can carry a grudge like no one. The story where McHale was killing Benson and Bird kept getting him the ball is priceless.


Then I don't think it would be wise to blow off post-season wrap-up meetings with LB, do you?


BTW...I like your avatar. Kinda the moth to the candle sorta thing.