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View Full Version : Lay off the big fella!!!!!!!!!



Taterhead
03-07-2011, 05:30 AM
In a NBA where guys routinely loaf and blatantly show that they could really couldn't care less, Roy Hibbert has done everything asked of him. You can see great potential in him. He gives it everything he's got and nobody can really argue that. And I appreciate that, so consider this a Roy Hibbert appreciation thread. If we can't accept the players who truly give it their all then what kind of fans are we? If that's the case they deserve better and I won't blame them when they look elsewhere. I think fans can truly influence a players development by the support they show him when they are struggling, and we lose sight of our job as fans at times.

How many players on this team can you honestly say has shown as much passion than Roy?

How many guys on the team even come close by comparison?

He is only 23 years old. And let me fill everyone in on a little secret about Roy......HE IS NOT A BANGER!!!!!! He never has been, and he never will be. When you play someone out of their comfort zone it's not a recipe for success, IMO. Why does everyone expect him to succeed? Why does he even have to be a banger? He still brings a lot of great skills to the game. I just don't get it. Even if he turns out to be a back up he could be a pretty darn good one.

I think where Roy can truly excel in the NBA as an offensive force is by drawing the other teams center away from the basket. He has a sweet looking jump shot that he rarely uses out to college three. He needs to get in the gym and perfect it. He has spent so much time working on post moves, foot work, position defense and his body that he hasn't been able to put in the time working on his outside shot over the last few years. I want Roy to model his game more after a guy like Robert Parish offensively. He needs to utilize his height and high release more, it could be a great weapon. And then he can use his passing ability off of that. So he might not be a great low post center, there is nothing wrong with that.

We need a low post PF that can score. The Pacers have been saying it for a long time. That will allow Roy to play a more natural position for him. And I guarantee you this summer he works on his jump shot and comes back next year looking better than ever. So give him some time. He has done every thing asked of him since he's been here. That should be worth something to us as fans.

He is not the problem with this team. He's the least of them.

Kstat
03-07-2011, 05:48 AM
actually, Roy is 24.

Taterhead
03-07-2011, 05:51 AM
actually, Roy is 24.

Oh well start digging the grave. My bad.

bellisimo
03-07-2011, 06:51 AM
you know reading the phrases that Roy uses in his interviews - I get the feeling that he actually reads the Pacers Digest.

Big Fella - if you reading these forums, I suggest you to stop it! Its no good for you! Sure we might be as interesting as a car accident and you can't look away as it happens, but its best in the long term if you don't let the people of the forum influence your game and your mind!

spazzxb
03-07-2011, 06:54 AM
Roy has spent less than a year in his current body. He has been improving every season, although he has been very up and down this season. The mood swings on this board are ridicules. Within the last week someone was running a thread to proclaim Roys issues fully the old coaches fault, now he is a new scapegoat.

I don't know how valid the "big men take longer to develop" theory is but there have been massive improvements from the big fella. Not long ago he couldn't stay on the court with out fouling now he can, that alone is enough improvement to not give up on the guy.

I wish there was a way to separate intelligent conversations about the organizations strategy and future, from the shorty sighted, reactionary, blow everything out of proportion, horribly unstable, fandamonium.

Pacersalltheway10
03-07-2011, 08:13 AM
you know reading the phrases that Roy uses in his interviews - I get the feeling that he actually reads the Pacers Digest.

Big Fella - if you reading these forums, I suggest you to stop it! Its no good for you! Sure we might be as interesting as a car accident and you can't look away as it happens, but its best in the long term if you don't let the people of the forum influence your game and your mind!

I hope Darren collison doesnt read Pacers Digest often.

DrFife
03-07-2011, 10:20 AM
Roy has spent less than a year in his current body.

Anybody a Heavy Metal (the movie) fan? Cue John Candy:

"Then, a body started to re-form around me. Only it wasn't my body - this one had muscles ... It was a great body, but I wasn't too crazy about the face."

http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/heavy_metal.html

Rogco
03-07-2011, 10:45 AM
Thanks Tater,

I love the emotion and passion of Roy. The sad part is his shot is just a tiny bit off, but he's almost there and I think with his hard work he'll get into a rhythym.

Roy, if you do read this forum, keep doing what you're doing and the success will follow.

Unclebuck
03-07-2011, 10:51 AM
I'm going to say this very succinctly. Either the Pacers need to get a power forward to complement Roy or the Pacers need to trade Roy.

kester99
03-07-2011, 10:57 AM
I'm going to say this very succinctly. Either the Pacers need to get a power forward to complement Roy or the Pacers need to trade Roy.

What type of PF would you look for, UB?

Kemo
03-07-2011, 11:04 AM
What type of PF would you look for, UB?

Charles Barkley or Rodman type ... whoever would fit that mold..Im not sure

figured I wouldn't be cliche' lolz

owl
03-07-2011, 11:06 AM
About the only pf out there next year with the size and scoring ability and rebounding
ability is Zach Randolph. The risk is high and the reward could also be high and the price will be high also. Everyone else is a short pf with limitations. Is there anyone else out there?

Professor S
03-07-2011, 11:08 AM
I'm going to say this very succinctly. Either the Pacers need to get a power forward to complement Roy or the Pacers need to trade Roy.

Agreed. I'm not trying to dwell on past glory but the best we can hope for out of Roy is a Rik Smits type career. Rik was never a banger, or great rebounder (never averaged more than 7 a game in his career), but at his peak he was very efficient offensively.

In order for a player like that to be optimally effective, he needs a "banger" to compliment him - a Dale/Antonio Davis type. Someone who can help compensate for his defensive deficiencies and get the tough boards that Roy can't, and allows him to concentrate on doing the things he does best: scoring and passing out of the high post.

Professor S
03-07-2011, 11:09 AM
About the only pf out there next year with the size and scoring ability and rebounding
ability is Zach Randolph. The risk is high and the reward could also be high and the price will be high also. Everyone else is a short pf with limitations. Is there anyone else out there?

I'm fully aboard the Z-Bo bandwagon, but Nene also fits the bill.

ksuttonjr76
03-07-2011, 11:10 AM
I'm going to say this very succinctly. Either the Pacers need to get a power forward to complement Roy or the Pacers need to trade Roy.

Ummm...no. The words "Trade Hibbert" should never be an option, unless we're getting Dwight Howard. With Roy's passion, desire to be better, and potential, there's not a center in the NBA that I would trade him for. You do realize that he's 8th in scoring among centers? Personally, the only thing that Roy needs to work on is his lower body strength, so he's not pushed off the blocks by stronger opponents.

ksuttonjr76
03-07-2011, 11:11 AM
Agreed. I'm not trying to dwell on past glory but the best we can hope for out of Roy is a Rik Smits type career. Rik was never a banger, or great rebounder (never averaged more than 7 a game in his career), but at his peak he was very efficient offensively.

In order for a player like that to be optimally effective, he needs a "banger" to compliment him - a Dale/Antonio Davis type. Someone who can help compensate for his defensive deficiencies and get the tough boards that Roy can't, and allows him to concentrate on doing the things he does best: scoring and passing out of the high post.

And blocking shots...

owl
03-07-2011, 11:13 AM
I'm fully aboard the Z-Bo bandwagon, but Nene also fits the bill.

Nene could help but he is a center if I am not mistaken. Can he play along side Roy as a powerforward?

Unclebuck
03-07-2011, 11:16 AM
Ummm...no. The words "Trade Hibbert" should never be an option, unless we're getting Dwight Howard. With Roy's passion, desire to be better, and potential, there's not a center in the NBA that I would trade him for. You do realize that he's 8th in scoring among centers? Personally, the only thing that Roy needs to work on is his lower body strength, so he's not pushed off the blocks by stronger opponents.


I'm going to be very direct again.

Three things working agaisnt Roy. I do not think he is mentally strong (he lets his emotions get the best of him) he has trouble moving his feet (gets killed on pick and rolls for example) and yet he isn't strong (he gets pushed around rather easily, see Chuch Hayes) That is not a good combination.

Pacers need a great defensive power forward.

Roy is basically Rik Smits

ColeTheMole
03-07-2011, 11:21 AM
Statistics compared to centers

13th in points per game
8th in assists per game
8th in blocks per game
15th in rebounds per game

If everyone starter on the team was this high ranked among their position players, the team would be great. (Obviously I know it wouldn't happen) These statistics are even using the unqualified players such as Verajao and Noah who have only played around 35 games.

But I agree. Lay off the big fella.

PacersPride
03-07-2011, 11:59 AM
two things worth mentioning:

1) i think big fella needs a coach who could work with him year round. instead of only a week or two in the summer. as hard as Roy works in the summer, it would be a wise investment from our FO.

2) with Obrien out of the picture and a return to more traditional basketball; Roy will need to add some weight in the offseason so he is not as likely to be pushed around in the post.

PacersPride
03-07-2011, 12:02 PM
I'm going to be very direct again.

Three things working agaisnt Roy. I do not think he is mentally strong (he lets his emotions get the best of him) he has trouble moving his feet (gets killed on pick and rolls for example) and yet he isn't strong (he gets pushed around rather easily, see Chuch Hayes) That is not a good combination.

Pacers need a great defensive power forward.

Roy is basically Rik Smits

Roy is not basically RikSmits. i loved the dunking dutchman as much as anyone but he never blocked shots, and Smits was as soft as could be down low, not a knock on him it was just his style of play. Smits was a much better jump shooter, but Roy is much better down low, or will be anyways by the time his career is over.

Roy also rebounds and plays much better defense than Smits ever did.

NuffSaid
03-07-2011, 12:18 PM
Alittle perspective here...

This is only Roy's 2nd-year in the NBA. If anyone was expecting him to perform more like Shaq or Dwight Howard especially with him small frame, you've been very dillusional.

Roy Hibbert has shown tremendous improvement in his game since last year, but that doesn't mean he still doesn't have work to do. I'll give you two examples of the adjustments Hibbert has made in his game since December:

1. He's started to put himself in better position under the basket to receive the ball and he has shortened his approach to the basket to be more effective. Before, he would catch the ball with his back to the basket and be closer to the baseline yet still be a good 4-5 ft from the basket. That would force him to make his move toward the defense. He knew the held defense would come, but most times he either try a hook shot over the defense or he'd try to power through the defense. That last part was troubling because he wouldn't try to move his defender, not with an elbow swipe, not even with a bump. He's just take one or two steps, go into his hook motion (usually with his right-hand) and believe that his height advantage really was his best asset. But what the defense started to do was double him or bump him. Both worked to disrupt his approach to the basket as he went into his shooting motion. So, what did Hibbert do to adjust to the defense? He started catching the ball closer to the basket. This shorted his approach and allowed him to get into his hook shot faster. He also started moving the ball "between the defenders". It's something he learned from Carlos Boozer. How do I know this? Because after the Pacers faced the Bulls the first time this season and Boozer beat him with his hesitation moves underneath, the very next game Roy started adding that move to his game. It proved effective.

2. Roy has started to use more "up and over" moves especially when attacking the basket in traffic. He's still struggling with it, but atleast he's trying to add more flare to his game. The problem here is Roy's still "small" (as in total body mass) compared to most other Centers. So, he still gets pushed around alot in the paint. A bump here or there throws him off alittle too easily for my taste, but hopefully he'll put on some weight he can live with over the summer and come back stronger.

There are, however, two things I would suggest Roy Hibbert worked on over the summer:

1) Foot speed. IMO, he's still much too slow to get his shot off despite the change in where he catches the ball in the paint. He needs to be quicker.

2) Playing above the rim. Throw it down with authority, Big Fella! Clearly, Roy can dunk, but he doesn't take the ball to the rack with authority often enough, IMO. I've seen plenty of times where I thought he was going to throw it down, but instead he would tip the ball in (or tip at it). Bill Walton gave Roy Hibbert some of the best advice I think one good veteran Center could give his student - OWN THE PAINT! You're 7' tall; use that height big guy! That's what guys the likes of Shaq (in his prime), Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire do. They dominate or atleast try to humiliate you at the rim no matter whose house they're in. I believe one day Roy Hibbert can become a dominate force in the NBA, but unlike the three big men I've mentioned herein, they came by their physique naturally; all 3 were born big. Roy just has height right now and not much strength in mass. He'll get there, but it's just going to take time and a few changes in his diet and workout regime. He'll get there.

vnzla81
03-07-2011, 12:19 PM
I'm going to be very direct again.

Three things working agaisnt Roy. I do not think he is mentally strong (he lets his emotions get the best of him) he has trouble moving his feet (gets killed on pick and rolls for example) and yet he isn't strong (he gets pushed around rather easily, see Chuch Hayes) That is not a good combination.

Pacers need a great defensive power forward.

Roy is basically Rik Smits

I agree, reason why I don't think that either of the Power Forwards that are going to be free agents next year can play with him.

vnzla81
03-07-2011, 12:19 PM
I'm going to say this very succinctly. Either the Pacers need to get a power forward to complement Roy or the Pacers need to trade Roy.

Exactly.

PaceBalls
03-07-2011, 12:26 PM
I think we should trade him.

ksuttonjr76
03-07-2011, 12:34 PM
I think we should trade him.

I'm going to ask this question just for the h*ll of it. For whom?

ksuttonjr76
03-07-2011, 12:41 PM
I'm going to be very direct again.

Three things working agaisnt Roy. I do not think he is mentally strong (he lets his emotions get the best of him) he has trouble moving his feet (gets killed on pick and rolls for example) and yet he isn't strong (he gets pushed around rather easily, see Chuch Hayes) That is not a good combination.

Pacers need a great defensive power forward.

Roy is basically Rik Smits

Did these questions about his foot speed come before or after he was drafted by the Pacers?

Did it ever occurred to you that he GENUINE thought that working on his post moves and agility during his offseason would tremedously change and be an advantage to his game? The general trend of the current NBA center has been leaner and more agile. He could have thought that the extra weight was working against him in the first two season. Since dropping the weight and playing this season, I'm pretty sure he sitting at home right now thinking...

"D*mn...maybe I should have kept the weight."

PacersPride
03-07-2011, 12:44 PM
I'm going to ask this question just for the h*ll of it. For whom?

for another player that after a few months many on here will want want traded again.

to hell with it trade em all:dance:

BillS
03-07-2011, 12:46 PM
I still believe he needs to make quicker decisions. Waiting patiently for a shot or passing lane is one thing, but defenses know where to position themselves when they come in to block his favorite moves - moves that if he made them quickly would result in no worse of a shot and fewer defenders to keep it from being a good one.

The offense has started to come away from the weak side a little when Roy gets the ball, but it is still too slow for me to believe that a pass out of the post is a first option for him in the current offense.

In most cases, there is no reason at all for him to be waiting for the defense to react before moving, and doing something as soon as he gets the ball is MUCH easier for teammates to time (for example, pass goes to Roy and Josh immediately moves toward the basket for an OR or even a pass, before the lane clogs with the inevitable double).

PaceBalls
03-07-2011, 12:46 PM
I'm going to ask this question just for the h*ll of it. For whom?

I'll answer this question just for the hell of it.

Someone good.

pacer4ever
03-07-2011, 01:09 PM
Alittle perspective here...

This is only Roy's 2nd-year in the NBA. If anyone was expecting him to perform more like Shaq or Dwight Howard especially with him small frame, you've been very dillusional.

Roy Hibbert has shown tremendous improvement in his game since last year, but that doesn't mean he still doesn't have work to do. I'll give you two examples of the adjustments Hibbert has made in his game since December:

1. He's started to put himself in better position under the basket to receive the ball and he has shortened his approach to the basket to be more effective. Before, he would catch the ball with his back to the basket and be closer to the baseline yet still be a good 4-5 ft from the basket. That would force him to make his move toward the defense. He knew the held defense would come, but most times he either try a hook shot over the defense or he'd try to power through the defense. That last part was troubling because he wouldn't try to move his defender, not with an elbow swipe, not even with a bump. He's just take one or two steps, go into his hook motion (usually with his right-hand) and believe that his height advantage really was his best asset. But what the defense started to do was double him or bump him. Both worked to disrupt his approach to the basket as he went into his shooting motion. So, what did Hibbert do to adjust to the defense? He started catching the ball closer to the basket. This shorted his approach and allowed him to get into his hook shot faster. He also started moving the ball "between the defenders". It's something he learned from Carlos Boozer. How do I know this? Because after the Pacers faced the Bulls the first time this season and Boozer beat him with his hesitation moves underneath, the very next game Roy started adding that move to his game. It proved effective.

2. Roy has started to use more "up and over" moves especially when attacking the basket in traffic. He's still struggling with it, but atleast he's trying to add more flare to his game. The problem here is Roy's still "small" (as in total body mass) compared to most other Centers. So, he still gets pushed around alot in the paint. A bump here or there throws him off alittle too easily for my taste, but hopefully he'll put on some weight he can live with over the summer and come back stronger.

There are, however, two things I would suggest Roy Hibbert worked on over the summer:

1) Foot speed. IMO, he's still much too slow to get his shot off despite the change in where he catches the ball in the paint. He needs to be quicker.

2) Playing above the rim. Throw it down with authority, Big Fella! Clearly, Roy can dunk, but he doesn't take the ball to the rack with authority often enough, IMO. I've seen plenty of times where I thought he was going to throw it down, but instead he would tip the ball in (or tip at it). Bill Walton gave Roy Hibbert some of the best advice I think one good veteran Center could give his student - OWN THE PAINT! You're 7' tall; use that height big guy! That's what guys the likes of Shaq (in his prime), Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire do. They dominate or atleast try to humiliate you at the rim no matter whose house they're in. I believe one day Roy Hibbert can become a dominate force in the NBA, but unlike the three big men I've mentioned herein, they came by their physique naturally; all 3 were born big. Roy just has height right now and not much strength in mass. He'll get there, but it's just going to take time and a few changes in his diet and workout regime. He'll get there.

It is his 3rd year

Peck
03-07-2011, 01:11 PM
Now that we don't have a coach who would demand that the power forward working with Roy stand at the three point line I'll go ahead and join Hicks & Gnome in saying that Okafur would be a great player to play next to Roy.

Sadly probably the ideal power forward to play next to Roy is already on our team but he is to old. Jeff Foster would fit in great next to Roy as he could take on the physical low post player. Actually for a few min. vs. Houston Frank did play the two together.

However in the spirit of the O.P. I'll say that we should lay off of Roy, however my reasons are not his. It's not because Roy deserves a break or anything, it is because we should all be focusing more on our back court.

If ever there was an upgrade needed it is at shooting guard and point guard for that matter spot.

MyFavMartin
03-07-2011, 01:12 PM
Growing pains are painful.

vnzla81
03-07-2011, 01:29 PM
Now that we don't have a coach who would demand that the power forward working with Roy stand at the three point line I'll go ahead and join Hicks & Gnome in saying that Okafur would be a great player to play next to Roy.

Sadly probably the ideal power forward to play next to Roy is already on our team but he is to old. Jeff Foster would fit in great next to Roy as he could take on the physical low post player. Actually for a few min. vs. Houston Frank did play the two together.

However in the spirit of the O.P. I'll say that we should lay off of Roy, however my reasons are not his. It's not because Roy deserves a break or anything, it is because we should all be focusing more on our back court.

If ever there was an upgrade needed it is at shooting guard and point guard for that matter spot.

I 100% agree with this, a young Jeff could be the ideal power forward next to Roy.

I also agree that we need an upgrade at sg and pg, neither Rush or DC are starters, I think they could be nice players to have in the bench.

Hicks
03-07-2011, 01:59 PM
I'll answer this question just for the hell of it.

Someone good.

I've seen this a thousand times before.

Someone doesn't like player X.

Someone then says to trade player X.

For whom? Well, someone better, of course!

After all, there are plenty of teams out there ready and willing to make such a generous offer, right?

Right?

.

.

.

.

Right?

kester99
03-07-2011, 02:42 PM
I still believe he needs to make quicker decisions. Waiting patiently for a shot or passing lane is one thing, but defenses know where to position themselves when they come in to block his favorite moves - moves that if he made them quickly would result in no worse of a shot and fewer defenders to keep it from being a good one.

The offense has started to come away from the weak side a little when Roy gets the ball, but it is still too slow for me to believe that a pass out of the post is a first option for him in the current offense.

In most cases, there is no reason at all for him to be waiting for the defense to react before moving, and doing something as soon as he gets the ball is MUCH easier for teammates to time (for example, pass goes to Roy and Josh immediately moves toward the basket for an OR or even a pass, before the lane clogs with the inevitable double).

There was a time not so long ago when he was hurrying his shot. Pretty sure someone got him to slow down...pause a sec, gather himself...then make the shot. Seems like he's just gone too far in that direction. I expect he'll find a more happy medium with more experience. I hope, anyway.

BillS
03-07-2011, 03:18 PM
There was a time not so long ago when he was hurrying his shot. Pretty sure someone got him to slow down...pause a sec, gather himself...then make the shot. Seems like he's just gone too far in that direction. I expect he'll find a more happy medium with more experience. I hope, anyway.

You have a point, but don't confuse "hurrying your shot" with "taking a quick shot" (or making a quick move).

In my mind, hurrying your shot means to make your shooting motion more quickly than you can control or before you are ready. You can do this after hesitating just as easily as you can if you shoot or move as soon as you get the ball.

I see Roy either not changing attitude/position from when he catches the ball and then waiting to gather and shoot or move (often still hurrying the shot in that case), or changing position (gathering) but still waiting to shoot or move (in which case he seems smoother).

While I would prefer the latter of the two, I'd much more prefer he do the second but do something quickly after gathering himself.

PaceBalls
03-07-2011, 03:38 PM
I've seen this a thousand times before.

Someone doesn't like player X.

Someone then says to trade player X.

For whom? Well, someone better, of course!

After all, there are plenty of teams out there ready and willing to make such a generous offer, right?

Right?

.

.

.

.

Right?

Eh.. I was just being smart alecky. I think Roy has good trade value and I think we could get someone good packaging him with someone else. Plenty of good offers indeed. I will work out what I think are good trades if you are interested once I get home from work.

Edit: here ya go, fresh from the trade forum. I made it just for you guys :hug:
http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=62350

MagicRat
03-07-2011, 05:28 PM
Work a little lasagna and mac and cheese back into the diet and park yourself on the low block, big fella!
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/hibbysnack.jpg

ksuttonjr76
03-07-2011, 09:37 PM
Eh.. I was just being smart alecky. I think Roy has good trade value and I think we could get someone good packaging him with someone else. Plenty of good offers indeed. I will work out what I think are good trades if you are interested once I get home from work.

Edit: here ya go, fresh from the trade forum. I made it just for you guys :hug:
http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=62350

If I could gong this trade, I would.

Naptown_Seth
03-07-2011, 10:33 PM
He is not the problem with this team. He's the least of them.
Sure he is.

He's critical, at times he's capable, and he's worth continuing to develop. This means he's going to be the focal point of offensive sets and has been, a lot. So if he struggles to pass out of double teams sharply and quickly, fails to get into his scoring moves quick and crisp and fails to protect the ball on double downs then basically the team is halfway to being F'd.

Period.

It's like saying it's not Reggie and Rik's fault if they went 4-15 and 3-12 with 6 TOs. Of course it would be. Roy's bar isn't 5th guy on the team, at least not at this point. He's supposed to be #2, maybe #3 depending on how Collison is going.


There is 100% not a bigger Roy fan than me, I loved the kid when he chose to return to Georgetown. He's a great person and passionate about his job.

But that's not a free pass on evaluating HIS GAME. Lately it's been poor. I'm still glad he's here, per my own thread before his rookie year saying "I don't care if Roy flops". But until he gets it going again he's going to get bad grades from me and will be holding the team back.

Naptown_Seth
03-07-2011, 10:36 PM
Growing pains are painful.
100%
Sums up every single thread the last few weeks and all the rest till April 15th.

Trophy
03-07-2011, 11:01 PM
I think he's gonna be a top center someday.

What he really needs is patience on the floor, more body strength, and confidence in himself.

At 7-2, he can do a lot and he's only gonna improve every year.

Taterhead
03-08-2011, 12:10 AM
Sure he is.

He's critical, at times he's capable, and he's worth continuing to develop. This means he's going to be the focal point of offensive sets and has been, a lot. So if he struggles to pass out of double teams sharply and quickly, fails to get into his scoring moves quick and crisp and fails to protect the ball on double downs then basically the team is halfway to being F'd.

Period.

It's like saying it's not Reggie and Rik's fault if they went 4-15 and 3-12 with 6 TOs. Of course it would be. Roy's bar isn't 5th guy on the team, at least not at this point. He's supposed to be #2, maybe #3 depending on how Collison is going.


There is 100% not a bigger Roy fan than me, I loved the kid when he chose to return to Georgetown. He's a great person and passionate about his job.

But that's not a free pass on evaluating HIS GAME. Lately it's been poor. I'm still glad he's here, per my own thread before his rookie year saying "I don't care if Roy flops". But until he gets it going again he's going to get bad grades from me and will be holding the team back.

I didn't say he didn't have to perform better. But if the rest of the team played as hard as Roy and cared as much as he did we would be a much better team. And I would gladly deal about 12 other players on this team before I even thought of getting rid of him.

He doesn't hold the team back at all. He's just being asked to do too much. He is a role player. Peoples expectations are out of wack. He is doing fine for a 3rd year center who is extremely young for his class.

PR07
03-08-2011, 12:27 AM
Roy is going to be a pretty good center in this league, but yes, he does need to get stronger. The problem with the Pacers' frontcourt as a whole is that we are light. The "Goon Squad" has been getting pushed around an awful lot as of late.