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View Full Version : Lance to Debut Today!



Professor S
02-27-2011, 12:02 PM
Per Mike Wells' Twitter:

"We'll see if Lance Stephenson is really "Born Ready" today. Vogel said the rookie will get some minutes vs Suns this afternoon."

BringJackBack
02-27-2011, 12:05 PM
WHUT?! I don't even get to see him!

imawhat
02-27-2011, 12:08 PM
I predict a rather good offensive game if he gets more than ten minutes. He's the type of guy that shines in debuts.

MarvelousMarvin
02-27-2011, 12:14 PM
I predict a rather good offensive game if he gets more than ten minutes. He's the type of guy that shines in debuts.

The icing on the cake is that we're playing one of the worst defensive teams in the league if not the worst.

pacer4ever
02-27-2011, 12:20 PM
YESSSSSSSS

pacer4ever
02-27-2011, 12:20 PM
off to the field house with my #6 jersey on

Heisenberg
02-27-2011, 12:35 PM
Anyone going, a thorough report on him would be pretty awesome.

Sookie
02-27-2011, 12:43 PM
Looks like Vogel's going to be smart and play him at SG too (or SF) because he wouldn't put him up against Nash or Brooks.

In fact, I wonder if Vogel's planning on using a small lineup today at some points (With like, PG or Granger being the 4) because my guess is that it would work well against the Suns.

Vogel managed to play 5 wings, with the fifth (Rush) being situational before Dun's injury. He brought in Rush when some defense was needed. No reason why we couldn't use Lance in a similar way. Perhaps if we need some scoring or what not. (If he's successful)

BringJackBack
02-27-2011, 12:45 PM
Who's their starting power forward and center?

Sookie
02-27-2011, 12:46 PM
Who's their starting power forward and center?

Not sure, all I know is that their Center is a three point shooter.

vnzla81
02-27-2011, 12:48 PM
Who's their starting power forward and center?

Warrick is the PF and Lopez the center, sometimes Frye is the center.

BringJackBack
02-27-2011, 12:48 PM
What happened to Gortat?

pacersgroningen
02-27-2011, 12:50 PM
he started to get minutes and is producing

Pacers4Life
02-27-2011, 12:52 PM
the writing has been written on the wall the whole time.. All of you predicting when we would see Lance..

Of course it was going to be only AFTER his off the court issues "got dealt with". This is the game I've thought we'd see him all along.. not that I knew it was this one specifically. But the one after his court date.. which didnt even happen.

I'm excited to "hear" what the kid can do today

ReggiesUncle
02-27-2011, 12:52 PM
Looks like Frye is starting PF and Lopez C

AB1077
02-27-2011, 12:53 PM
Not specifically related to this thread, but does anyone know the answer to this question: I am local in Indy and we have no local tv today. If I buy league pass on Dish, will I be able to watch the feed? Thanks in advance, the fact that he is playing finally is what I needed to push me over the top to buy it if it will work for me.

ReggiesUncle
02-27-2011, 12:55 PM
ya you should be able to watch bc its not on local tv

they black out any games that are on ESPN, FSN, etc

AB1077
02-27-2011, 12:57 PM
ya you should be able to watch bc its not on local tv

they black out any games that are on ESPN, FSN, etc

I decided to give it a shot, hopeful that I can call them and cancel if it doesn't work for some reason. Thanks!

BlueNGold
02-27-2011, 12:59 PM
the writing has been written on the wall the whole time.. All of you predicting when we would see Lance..

Of course it was going to be only AFTER his off the court issues "got dealt with". This is the game I've thought we'd see him all along.. not that I knew it was this one specifically. But the one after his court date.. which didnt even happen.

I'm excited to "hear" what the kid can do today

Conventional wisdom is beautiful.

Unclebuck
02-27-2011, 01:02 PM
Not specifically related to this thread, but does anyone know the answer to this question: I am local in Indy and we have no local tv today. If I buy league pass on Dish, will I be able to watch the feed? Thanks in advance, the fact that he is playing finally is what I needed to push me over the top to buy it if it will work for me.


yes

Pacers4Life
02-27-2011, 01:03 PM
Conventional wisdom is beautiful.

Call it what you will, but it gets so tiring being right all the time.

Trophy
02-27-2011, 01:03 PM
Hope he makes his debut a good one! :buddies:

Justin Tyme
02-27-2011, 01:06 PM
What happened to Gortat?


Robin Lopez starts but Gortat gets the major minutes. He's doing well since being traded to the Suns.

spazzxb
02-27-2011, 01:23 PM
I decided to give it a shot, hopeful that I can call them and cancel if it doesn't work for some reason. Thanks!

IT should work just fine. I am watching on league pass mobile and, pacers games are usually blacked out.

DocHolliday
02-27-2011, 03:49 PM
37 points, 9 assists, 8 rebounds--about what I expected based on the hype from everyone on this board. I wasn't disappointed!

Dr. Awesome
02-27-2011, 03:52 PM
37 points, 9 assists, 8 rebounds--about what I expected based on the hype from everyone on this board. I wasn't disappointed!

Well, he's averaging 24/24/12 per 48.

smj887
02-27-2011, 03:52 PM
37 points, 9 assists, 8 rebounds--about what I expected based on the hype from everyone on this board. I wasn't disappointed!

He showed off some pretty good handles and had a few very nice passes.

One of only a few players on the team with a positive +/-. Also, his per-36 numbers would translate to 18 points 18 assists and 9 rebounds.

Now obviously those are flawed metrics, but still. He showed potential, and didn't get crushed (or even beaten, really) like some people seem to imply...

BringJackBack
02-27-2011, 04:12 PM
I was most impressed with his defense. He didn't let Nash do his thing at all. Makes me wonder if Jim just tried to make a cover up for him blaming his defense.

kellogg
02-27-2011, 04:41 PM
He showed off some pretty good handles and had a few very nice passes.

One of only a few players on the team with a positive +/-. Also, his per-36 numbers would translate to 18 points 18 assists and 9 rebounds.

Now obviously those are flawed metrics, but still. He showed potential, and didn't get crushed (or even beaten, really) like some people seem to imply...

...and 9 TOs.

But seriously, he looked like he could take it to the hoop on anyone. One sloppy pass that was stolen was really the only downer, and that it was clear he wasn't in sync with the other guys being his first game.

Definitely not selfish. Needs to get into better shape though...he was really winded and grabbing his shorts after he was pulled, and DC and couple of the other guys looked like they were giving him a good-natured hard time over it.

Trophy
02-27-2011, 05:34 PM
I was really impressed with his defense at the point and he found guys for good shots.

He's quick and got to the basket.

I'm interested to see him at SG playing next to DC or AJ.

His ball handing is gonna throw opposing players off.

pacer4ever
02-27-2011, 05:38 PM
It took AJ about 2 weeks to get the rust off after getting put in the rotation. So I wasnt expecting much today but I like what I saw.

pacer4ever
02-27-2011, 06:11 PM
in Lances postgame presser he said he needs to get in game shape he isnt in game shape he is in pratice shape. Wonder how long it will take him?

Psyren
02-27-2011, 06:15 PM
I was at the game as well.

And as others said, I was impressed with his defense. Granted he didn't play long, but he really never let Nash get into a groove. Also, he seems to have really good court vision, and is much quicker than the other team thought he was going to be.

I really think that first step is going to be a big strength of his. It's very deceptive. He looks sluggish with his body frame, but has a very quick first step.

Overall, for the minimal playing time, I liked what I saw. Let's keep increasing his minutes and see what he can do.

DaveP63
02-27-2011, 08:03 PM
Very good defensively. Made pretty good decisions. Had one bad pass but really didn't have the "deer in the headlights" look that one might expect coming in this late in the season for the first time.

vnzla81
02-27-2011, 08:07 PM
He looks similar to Tyreke Evans, look at this video.


<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/I1KBp5jzIL4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hicks
02-27-2011, 08:07 PM
I would have liked to have seen him get more than 3 minutes.

pacer4ever
02-27-2011, 08:11 PM
Evans jumps about as much as Lance in his jump shot

BringJackBack
02-27-2011, 08:13 PM
Yeah I'm starting to get impatient with the whole Lance thing. It's time to get him some real minutes. At least 8-10 a game. I was extremely impressed with how quick he can rack up assists and his PnR defense. He looked like a big bear with his arms hovering over Steve Nash.

xIndyFan
02-27-2011, 08:14 PM
nice start. looked much better than early season. looked like a young talented player that hasn't played many games. more importantly he looked like a guy ready to play. instead of a guy with potential. thrilled with his defense. it was light years better than before.

pacer4ever
02-27-2011, 08:15 PM
Yeah I'm starting to get impatient with the whole Lance thing. It's time to get him some real minutes. At least 8-10 a game. I was extremely impressed with how quick he can rack up assists and his PnR defense. He looked like a big bear with his arms hovering over Steve Nash.

From what Vogel said doesnt look like that will happen for a while. He probly wont get over 10 mins tuesday maybe will get 5 lol.

ChristianDudley
02-27-2011, 08:21 PM
I'll say this...it looks like a freight train barrelling down the lane when Lance is bringing the ball up...he's the type of big/bulky point guard we need when guarding players such as Deron Williams, Baron Davis, etc. I was very impressed with Lance today and he definitely needs more minutes!!

xIndyFan
02-27-2011, 08:27 PM
i like vogel's appoach to giving lance minutes. let him get a short shift every game until lance gets into game shape.

TheDon
02-27-2011, 08:29 PM
I was really impressed with his postgame presser I know that sounds silly but the responses to his questions are exactly what you would want to hear. things like "I'll fill whatever role the coach wants me to fill." and "I need to get in game shape right now i'm in practice shape." Seems very well spoken compared to the one or two videos i've ever heard lance say anything. I think this season has been very humbling and he seems amazingly self-aware and his demeanor seems more positive. I am going to go out on a limb here but I think he'll turn out really well for us and continue to mature.

pacer4ever
02-27-2011, 08:40 PM
I'll say this...it looks like a freight train barrelling down the lane when Lance is bringing the ball up...he's the type of big/bulky point guard we need when guarding players such as Deron Williams, Baron Davis, etc. I was very impressed with Lance today and he definitely needs more minutes!!

I doubt Bdiddy is gonna play for another 2 years :laugh:

IndyPacer
02-27-2011, 08:55 PM
I've actually wondered if he might have looked slower than he otherwise would have in college because he wasn't in peak physical condition. He was able to overpower his opponents with his size and muscle, but you have to be much faster in the NBA and have a much higher level of conditioning. I'm curious to see how well he'll move and how his conditioning holds up when he actually gets into "game shape." I'm not expecting a dramatic transformation or anything, but any extra speed and agility he can get would be very important for him. The more guards he can keep his big, burly physique in front of, the better.

pacer4ever
02-27-2011, 09:00 PM
I've actually wondered if he might have looked slower than he otherwise would have in college because he wasn't in peak physical condition. He was able to overpower his opponents with his size and muscle, but you have to be much faster in the NBA and have a much higher level of conditioning. I'm curious to see how well he'll move and how his conditioning holds up when he actually gets into "game shape." I'm not expecting a dramatic transformation or anything, but any extra speed and agility he can get would be very important for him. The more guards he can keep his big, burly physique in front of, the better.

He said he use to be in bad shape and ate Micky Ds watch this interview rather funny talks about is condtioning....

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MQkF9eoy70c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

FF to 30 seconds

This interview is nice also " I want to be a good defender"

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/v5Y87WYMCnk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Pacerblue
02-27-2011, 09:22 PM
I thought he looked good out there. His size will be great against bigger PGs and his defense looked good. He made a great baseline bounce pass for an assist.

ECKrueger
02-27-2011, 09:54 PM
I wish I could have seen him. Glad he finally got to play.

IndyPacer
02-27-2011, 11:39 PM
He said he use to be in bad shape and ate Micky Ds watch this interview rather funny talks about is condtioning....


I believe I've seen those interviews before. The work on physical conditioning has obviously helped him somewhat because I think Nash would have blown past the Lance from college. It's encouraging that he's at least able to stay with some point guards at the pro level. I still think he's going to have major problems with the faster guards in the league. He better get into "game shape" before the first time he tries to stay with Westbrook or Wade, for example. I think we'll need to depend more on Rush and George for the most athletic guards, who I think will give Stephenson serious problems (perhaps not Dunleavy bad, but still very bad).

IndyPacer
02-27-2011, 11:42 PM
I'll say this...it looks like a freight train barrelling down the lane when Lance is bringing the ball up...he's the type of big/bulky point guard we need when guarding players such as Deron Williams, Baron Davis, etc. I was very impressed with Lance today and he definitely needs more minutes!!

I would like to see how he fared against someone like Deron Williams, but I think I'm less optimistic about the outcome of that matchup. If Stephenson could actually guard D. Williams effectively, I'd be really impressed and quite surprised.

ChristianDudley
02-27-2011, 11:53 PM
yeah and I don't necessarily mean DWill and Baron specifically, I mean just the body-types. Even throw Tyreke Evans into the mix--who I definitely see a lot of in Lance. I just mean that Lance has the body and ability to guard these bigger, stronger, bulkier point guards, which we desperately need as we've seen Price and Collison both be eaten alive by these types so far this season. I'm still glad that Lance got to finally play today even though we lost a heartbreaker.

ziplockfresh
02-28-2011, 12:10 AM
He could guard them ^ agreed. As he gets quicker he may even be able to stay in front of people like Rose and Westbrook. The difference between him and Tyreke is the midrange game. He's a better shooter, in my opinion. He also seems like a craftier passer.

LA_Confidential
02-28-2011, 12:11 AM
What was the crown reaction like when he went in? Were there applause or was it a meh response?

Scot Pollard
02-28-2011, 01:00 AM
"Checking in for the first time #6 Lance Stephenson!" - MG

The crowd was pretty excited.

I loved what I saw out of him. I just hope he's comfortable to play some minutes at PG.

He crushed Steve Nash which is what I loved.

bambam
02-28-2011, 01:11 AM
wish someone had video from his playing time on you tube or something

ziplockfresh
02-28-2011, 01:24 AM
wish someone had video from his playing time on you tube or something

*sigh* Same. I thought nba.com would have a clip for his debut, considering he's a rookie..But I was wrong.

Hicks
02-28-2011, 11:03 AM
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like we're going to see Lance play very much.

From today's Star:


After waiting 57 games and sitting through a coaching change, Pacers rookie guard Lance Stephenson made his season debut in the first half.

Stephenson played four minutes, getting two points, a rebound, two assists and a turnover. His father, Lance Sr., threw confetti into the air after his son made each of his two free throws.

"It felt good," Stephenson said. "I have to get in game shape. I was tired after the first two minutes in there. I'm in practice shape, not game shape.''

Vogel said he wants Stephenson to play in at least every other game so he can get some kind of NBA experience.

There's a chance Stephenson, a favorite of team president Larry Bird, will play some shooting guard the next time he plays.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110228/SPORTS04/102280318/1062/SPORTS04/Extra-shooting-helps-Price
Mike Wells

MagicRat
02-28-2011, 11:25 AM
wish someone had video from his playing time on you tube or something

If you ask nicely I'll try to put something up tonight......

pacer4ever
02-28-2011, 11:25 AM
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like we're going to see Lance play very much.

From today's Star:



http://www.indystar.com/article/20110228/SPORTS04/102280318/1062/SPORTS04/Extra-shooting-helps-Price
Mike Wells

boooooooooooooo Vogel

IndyPacer
02-28-2011, 12:01 PM
boooooooooooooo Vogel

Woah, just a minute. Maybe you should read what Stephenson himself said about his readiness to play big minutes:


I have to get in game shape. I was tired after the first two minutes in there. I'm in practice shape, not game shape.

-Lance Stephenson

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110228/SPORTS04/102280318/1062/SPORTS04/Extra-shooting-helps-Price

Peck
02-28-2011, 12:32 PM
When Lance came out of the game I thought he was upset about being pulled, his head was hanging and the look on his face was not that of someone who was thrilled to have just made his NBA debut.

However it became very quickly clear that he was not upset at all but he was gassed & I mean totally out of energy. I haven't seen someone that wasted since John "hot plate" Williams played here.

I thought his time on the floor was good & again I have hope for his future. If he can learn and retain the plays and understand the defense and make sure that he commits to it I think Lance will be a breath of fresh air at the p.g. spot for us. He is as big as a linebacker and has good handles.

pacer4ever
02-28-2011, 12:46 PM
Woah, just a minute. Maybe you should read what Stephenson himself said about his readiness to play big minutes:

if he only plays every other game. He wont ever be in gam shape.

pacer4ever
02-28-2011, 12:47 PM
When Lance came out of the game I thought he was upset about being pulled, his head was hanging and the look on his face was not that of someone who was thrilled to have just made his NBA debut.

However it became very quickly clear that he was not upset at all but he was gassed & I mean totally out of energy. I haven't seen someone that wasted since John "hot plate" Williams played here.

I thought his time on the floor was good & again I have hope for his future. If he can learn and retain the plays and understand the defense and make sure that he commits to it I think Lance will be a breath of fresh air at the p.g. spot for us. He is as big as a linebacker and has good handles.

He did look gased but I though he should have got another 4mins in the 2nd half.

CableKC
02-28-2011, 01:23 PM
I have to admit that watching the small period of time that Lance was in....there seemed to be a VERY HIGH level of energy and overall movement in the unit that was in....much more then usual. I wouldn't be surprised if he was winded and that it's a matter of time for him to get back into regular shape.

Sookie
02-28-2011, 01:29 PM
I think if you had him play shooting guard he probably wouldn't get as winded too. Easier to chase around a SG (unless that SG is Ray Allen) than it is to chase around a PG.

I thought Lance looked decent for a guy who hasn't played a minute in the NBA and was forced out of his position, into the hardest one on the floor.

I don't mind the baby steps with Lance too. It's hard to add yet another player to the rotation, when we just lost one and added another. Vogel's trying to win and be the coach next season, too.

90'sNBARocked
02-28-2011, 01:33 PM
I think if you had him play shooting guard he probably wouldn't get as winded too. Easier to chase around a SG (unless that SG is Ray Allen) than it is to chase around a PG.

I thought Lance looked decent for a guy who hasn't played a minute in the NBA and was forced out of his position, into the hardest one on the floor.

I don't mind the baby steps with Lance too. It's hard to add yet another player to the rotation, when we just lost one and added another. Vogel's trying to win and be the coach next season, too.

Tell the truth, you had a heart to heart with AJ, prior to yesterday's game

Way to go Sookie!! :)

Mackey_Rose
02-28-2011, 01:35 PM
I was surprised at how effective he was on defense, but offensively he didn't look like a point guard to me.

Probably because he isn't a point guard.

vnzla81
02-28-2011, 01:41 PM
I was surprised at how effective he was on defense, but offensively he didn't look like a point guard to me.

Probably because he isn't a point guard.

He looked to me more point guard than either one of the other two, he was able to make some nice passes and find people open, things I don't see from the other guys, I know it was just an small example but I think he is going to be fine.

Sookie
02-28-2011, 01:47 PM
I was surprised at how effective he was on defense, but offensively he didn't look like a point guard to me.

Probably because he isn't a point guard.

Honestly, I think his size shook up Brooks and Nash, but they probably would have figured it out if given a few minutes.

I do like that the guy setting the pick can't bump and move him out of place like they do to Price and Darren. The moving screens are obnoxious, but Lance looks like he'd just run a guy over.

As I said, I wanna see him at SG. That's where he looked the best in preseason. Maybe give him some of Dahntay's minutes...

righteouscool
02-28-2011, 01:47 PM
I don't mind having him play point for 4 minutes a game, but why in god's name can't he play for Dahanty? He can't be any worse. I don't want to hear anything about his defense, either, because he did just fine on Steve Nash and Aaron Brooks.

pacer4ever
02-28-2011, 01:54 PM
Honestly, I think his size shook up Brooks and Nash, but they probably would have figured it out if given a few minutes.

I do like that the guy setting the pick can't bump and move him out of place like they do to Price and Darren. The moving screens are obnoxious, but Lance looks like he'd just run a guy over.

As I said, I wanna see him at SG. That's where he looked the best in preseason. Maybe give him some of Dahntay's minutes...
:wtf2:
Steve Nash figure it out on defense?

He hasnt played defense since he has entered the NBA

Peck
02-28-2011, 01:56 PM
I was surprised at how effective he was on defense, but offensively he didn't look like a point guard to me.

Probably because he isn't a point guard.

Meh, he looked as much a p.g. as Collison does on most nights.

vnzla81
02-28-2011, 01:58 PM
:wtf2:
Steve Nash figure it out on defense?

He hasnt played defense since he has entered the NBA

Nash can play D, he is an underrated defender.

pacer4ever
02-28-2011, 01:58 PM
Nash can play D, he is an underrated defender.

No he rally cant his defense is pretty bad

Sookie
02-28-2011, 01:59 PM
:wtf2:
Steve Nash figure it out on defense?

He hasnt played defense since he has entered the NBA

No no, I mean, he would have adjusted to Lance's defense. I think Lance was effective for a few minutes because Nash wasn't expecting the size difference.

I love Nashy, but there's no hope in HIM ever figuring out defense.

vnzla81
02-28-2011, 02:00 PM
Meh, he looked as much a p.g. as Collison does on most nights.

Yep Collison or AJ.

Sookie
02-28-2011, 02:07 PM
Yep Collison or AJ.

*sigh*

1. Collison's a scoring PG. Yes he is. That doesn't mean he's a SG in a PG's body. He's a scoring PG. And that's okay. Teams can win that way (yes they can) I know it's got a bad stigma attached to it (Not my preference, actually) but that doesn't make him not a point guard. If you don't want to call him a "true PG" fine, doesn't mean he's not a PG. And quite frankly, with Brandon and Josh in the starting lineup, I think we need him to score.

2. Some day, when I have the time, I'm seriously going to break down game tape in a mega essay of why, yes, Price is "true pg." Because I'm that annoyed with people constantly saying it. No, he doesn't play a two man game that often. (Except with Hans on the PnP, and last night's attempt with Granger..) Doesn't mean he's not a "true PG." He just doesn't care about the assist statistic, he cares about running the offense.

Speed
02-28-2011, 02:31 PM
Many will disagree with this and I'm not sure I believe it myself yet, but...

Lance has 'potentially' better ability to be that PG that makes others around him significantly better.

Here's why.

Lance will have a distinct advantage size wise every night.

Lance is a threat to get to where he wants with the ball AND finish.

Lance is a willing passer, kind of TBD, but I'm convinced he has the ability to draw defenders and the vision to make the correct pass.

Lance has the handles to play the position.

Now the counter is...

Can he defend the position?

Can he run a team from a decision making standpoint?

I don't know the answer.

My point here is that Lance at the point guard, gives you something that I don't think any of the current Point Guards do, a distinct advantage every night.

DC is young, AJ is inexperienced. I don't know where they'll fall eventually. That dynamic changes as the team talent increases too.

I am completely convinced at this moment that neither is a distinct advantage at their position on a average to less talented team like the 2010-11 Indiana Pacers.

Sounds like I'm touting Lance as the answer, but really I'm just saying it needs to be considered he could be part of the solution.

McKeyFan
02-28-2011, 02:39 PM
Many will disagree with this and I'm not sure I believe it myself yet, but...

Lance has 'potentially' better ability to be that PG that makes others around him significantly better.

Here's why.

Lance will have a distinct advantage size wise every night.

Lance is a threat to get to where he wants with the ball AND finish.

Lance is a willing passer, kind of TBD, but I'm convinced he has the ability to draw defenders and the vision to make the correct pass.

Lance has the handles to play the position.

Now the counter is...

Can he defend the position?

Can he run a team from a decision making standpoint?

I don't know the answer.

My point here is that Lance at the point guard, gives you something that I don't think any of the current Point Guards do, a distinct advantage every night.

DC is young, AJ is inexperienced. I don't know where they'll fall eventually. That dynamic changes as the team talent increases too.

I am completely convinced at this moment that neither is a distinct advantage at their position on a average to less talented team like the 2010-11 Indiana Pacers.

Sounds like I'm touting Lance as the answer, but really I'm just saying it needs to be considered he could be part of the solution.
Interesting . . .

I don't think you were that warm on Lance early on. Right?

Speed
02-28-2011, 02:39 PM
I was surprised at how effective he was on defense, but offensively he didn't look like a point guard to me.

Probably because he isn't a point guard.

Why isn't he a point guard or potentially so?

I know its been discussed, I just honestly can't remember the argument against it.

Sparhawk
02-28-2011, 02:42 PM
I think when the situation dictates it and we can have a matchup in our favor, then Lance should be the point. I'd still like for Lance to play some SG as well.

After his performance last night, I can see his minutes start to go up a little. I think the 4 minutes, Lance wanted to show the coach that he can get others involved and not focus on "getting his" points. He got to the foul line which was great too and hit them both.

McKeyFan
02-28-2011, 02:45 PM
Why isn't he a point guard or potentially so?

I know its been discussed, I just honestly can't remember the argument against it.
IIRC, it had to do with an inability to cover quick point guards. But his performance against Nash and Brooks looked like early evidence that it may not be a problem.

Speed
02-28-2011, 02:46 PM
Interesting . . .

I don't think you were that warm on Lance early on. Right?

In the predraft workouts when he toasted Kramer from Purdue, I was intrigued.

When he was, in my estimation, the best player in the Orlando Summer league I was really excited.

When he had his off court issues, I refused to even consider him part of the team after a long line of wasted Pacers money, picks, and talent.

Now that it seems that he's part of the team and I feel like the team is just not that talented, overall, I see a guy who could be a difference maker, at maybe one of the most important positions of Point Guard.

So I've waffled. :)

I just can't help but let my mind wander to Lance physically punishing opposing Point Guards on a nightly basis and just wearing them down. With the stable of young stud Point Guards in the East (Rondo, D Rose, D Will), it would be nice to think of situation where you have a serious counter punch.

Speed
02-28-2011, 02:49 PM
Nothing against AJ, but if you could field a PG combo of one of the fastest guys in the league in DC and potentially the strongest PG in the league in Lance, thats a nice combo. Premature for sure, I know.

Mackey_Rose
02-28-2011, 02:50 PM
Meh, he looked as much a p.g. as Collison does on most nights.

Exactly right. Which is to say, he didn't look anything like a point guard.

Mackey_Rose
02-28-2011, 02:56 PM
Why isn't he a point guard or potentially so?

I know its been discussed, I just honestly can't remember the argument against it.

I don't know what the argument was either, but my current argument is that he does not have the capability to be the on-court leader that I think is vital for point guards.

righteouscool
02-28-2011, 03:19 PM
I don't know what the argument was either, but my current argument is that he does not have the capability to be the on-court leader that I think is vital for point guards.

How could you possibly know that from watching him play for 4 minutes?

Speed
02-28-2011, 03:22 PM
How could you possibly know that from watching him play for 4 minutes?

Its a good point, none of us know anything, yet. I don't think he can lead a team, right now either. I'm not ruling it out though.

Someone else said it better than me, but Lance at the point is a bigger advantage than Lance at the two guard, imo. I guess it really depends if he can play that position, though.

Mackey_Rose
02-28-2011, 03:27 PM
How could you possibly know that from watching him play for 4 minutes?

I'm not basing my opinion off of his 4 minutes yesterday, but from what I've heard from people that are around him on a daily basis, it seems highly unlikely that he will ever be the kind of guy.

Let's put it this way, from a personality perspective, he's got a lot more Allen Iverson in him than he does a guy like Chauncey Billups.

Merz
02-28-2011, 03:31 PM
:wtf2:
Steve Nash figure it out on defense?

He hasnt played defense since he has entered the NBA

Can we get a new "are you serious" or "wth" gif? At least another one to mix it up? I see this posted in almost every thread lately (The 50 Cent one has kind of lost it's luster as well).

As for Lance at pg...I can see him playing with AJ (or with Mayo if the deal went through) as the 1 on offense but defending the 2. That way AJ can look for his shot as the 2 on offense but not have to defend anyone much bigger than him.

BringJackBack
02-28-2011, 04:29 PM
If you ask nicely I'll try to put something up tonight......

Can you please put up some footage of Lance later? It'd be greatly appreciated.. If you don't want to I understand though; it's probably a bit of a hassle.

90'sNBARocked
02-28-2011, 05:06 PM
I don't know what the argument was either, but my current argument is that he does not have the capability to be the on-court leader that I think is vital for point guards.

Please elaborate on how you could possibly come to this conclusion

Thanks

Sookie
02-28-2011, 05:14 PM
Its a good point, none of us know anything, yet. I don't think he can lead a team, right now either. I'm not ruling it out though.

Someone else said it better than me, but Lance at the point is a bigger advantage than Lance at the two guard, imo. I guess it really depends if he can play that position, though.

Right, but Lance has a lot farther to go, and may never be able to be, a point guard. Where as, he probably only needs to develop a three point shot, to be an effective shooting guard. (And he'd need to do that as a point guard too.)

Right now, I'm not basing my opinion of him through his four minutes yesterday, in which he didn't look like a point guard. I'm basing them on watching him last season (He went to a Big East school..and he kicked Uconn's butt twice) and because the "Lance at the point" attempt has been tried and failed at every level he's played at. But we think it's going to work at the NBA level? Really guys?

I know the temptation is there. But any shooting guard's ceiling is higher at the PG spot. But notice, guys like Manu, DWade, Kobe..and now even Tyreke and Stuckey all play the shooting guard spot. You're going to tell me that Lance has more PG skills than those guys? Then lets add in that Lance said before getting drafted that he wants to play on the wing, and his best ability is scoring...

Sure, getting him to the point where he can play the point if absolutely necessary, in case of an injury or foul trouble or whatever..wouldn't be a terrible idea. It'd open up a roster spot that wouldn't be needed for a third PG. But Lance's best chance at success is at the 2.

xIndyFan
02-28-2011, 05:35 PM
the problem with lance at the 2 is height. lance is 6-4.5 with average hops. that makes him just another guy at the 2. playing guys that are both bigger and stonger. lance ends up looking like jarrett jack playing the 2. guys just shoot over him.

i don't know if lance can play the point or not. he has nice handles, but not great. he seems to look to pass. and is willing. if he can play the point, then he is an offensive weapon with his size. if he cannont, then he is just another 2.

pacers are doing the right thing trying to see if lance is a PG. high reward, low risk. grooming him as a w is a low reward, low risk. let's try the PG position first please.

pacer4ever
02-28-2011, 05:37 PM
the problem with lance at the 2 is height. lance is 6-4.5 with average hops. that makes him just another guy at the 2. playing guys that are both bigger and stonger. lance ends up looking like jarrett jack playing the 2. guys just shoot over him.

i don't know if lance can play the point or not. he has nice handles, but not great. he seems to look to pass. and is willing. if he can play the point, then he is an offensive weapon with his size. if he cannont, then he is just another 2.

pacers are doing the right thing trying to see if lance is a PG. high reward, low risk. grooming him as a w is a low reward, low risk. let's try the PG position first please.

Not really look at Treke Evans they are both so strong that they can be very effective. Evans can't shoot and aves 20ppg at the SG.

smj887
02-28-2011, 06:21 PM
Let's put it this way, from a personality perspective, he's got a lot more Allen Iverson in him than he does a guy like Chauncey Billups.

I don't have a hard time believing that at all. I'd probably bet $2 to $1 that this is the case. Hopefully he can adjust, but I don't really hate the idea of him developing into a guy that can play 1 on 1 and not suck at it half the time (Dahntay). Could be useful to exploit defensive matchups.

I think he did about as well as he could have, given the limited minutes, debuting so late in the season, and being in practice shape. Hopefully he can figure out the position, if not, I don't think he'll have forgotten how to be a SG in the meantime.

The more I think about his play, the more I want to see him out there. I'm just intrigued by the kid. But I think our rotations at the PG and wing are pretty set, and I'm all about making the playoffs, so it seems like over the summer would be the best time to develop him and see if he supplants anybody for a backup spot next season.

Gamble1
02-28-2011, 06:36 PM
Personally I hope we take a long look at Felton and try to upgrade our pg position. I don't mind Lance taking some minutes from AJ because AJ to me is just a backup pg. Lance however could be a a starting sg or combo guard.

Also Lance is almost 6'6 with shoes and since no one plays without shoes I am not sure why you are making a big deal about his height. He isn't Ben Gordon for goodness sake.

Hicks
02-28-2011, 06:47 PM
Russell Westbrook didn't play PG in college, did he?

Trophy
02-28-2011, 06:49 PM
Russell Westbrook didn't play PG in college, did he?

I think he played as a combo guard.

Eleazar
02-28-2011, 07:03 PM
I think the other thing that can be judged at this point is that he most likely will only be a back-up at whatever position he is best at.

Gamble1
02-28-2011, 07:52 PM
Russell Westbrook didn't play PG in college, did he?
He played sg and also backed up Collison at pg. The knock on him was that he was a tweener but he had enough upside after 2 years for everyone to believe that he would be a productive NBA player.

BringJackBack
02-28-2011, 07:53 PM
Don't know why theres always going to be a "OMGZZ Lance CAN'T PLAY PG!!" crowd. If anything he can adjust and he can just be a new breed of PG. I think it's pretty obvious that his defensive problems are overblown by Jim just like when he said Paul George was playing crappy defense. And not to mention he looked impressive out there for the very few minutes to have, not to mention that he probably had rust and his adrenaline was going.

I want to see more before I know what he is. I want evidence, and I think some/many are just jumping to conclusions, and they have been the whole time when it comes to Lance's position. Obviously the FO thinks he's a point, Larry is very high on him, and he looked natural out there for the few minutes he had, but I want to see more before I make a fair judgment on his position. I'll tell you what though, he looked like a point. We only have one game to judge him on, and he looked more like a point guard than a shooting guard.

We've got years to put this together when it comes to Lance. I am just waiting for evidence to see why he's strictly a shooting guard with only four minutes of play to judge it on.

BringJackBack
02-28-2011, 07:57 PM
I think the other thing that can be judged at this point is that he most likely will only be a back-up at whatever position he is best at.

May I ask why? He's the definition of project. He's got the tools to be a good player, and the guys who see him in practice every day think that he is extremely talented, so I'm not sure why you would come to this conclusion after one game.. It's been one game, and he didn't even play bad.

IndyPacer
02-28-2011, 08:07 PM
I think some of you are getting a bit too obsessed with Lance being a point guard. He can handle the ball and get to the basket, something Granger and Rush aren't great at doing. He has a 6'10" wingspan. He's very powerful. His conditioning is improving, and he may be able to add a bit more speed if he's dedicated to getting in great shape. There are many things that he can do for the Pacers. He doesn't have to play at point guard to contribute.

BringJackBack
02-28-2011, 08:12 PM
I think some of you are getting a bit too obsessed with Lance being a point guard. He can handle the ball and get to the basket, something Granger and Rush aren't great at doing. He has a 6'10" wingspan. He's very powerful. His conditioning is improving, and he may be able to add a bit more speed if he's dedicated to getting in great shape. There are many things that he can do for the Pacers. He doesn't have to play at point guard to contribute.

All I am saying is that we have four minutes of game play to judge him on about his position, and he looked fine as a point for a 19 year old project. I'm not getting obsessed about him being a point guard, I'm getting tired of him just being wrote off when so far evidence suggests that he looked comfortable playing the point. He keeps just getting wrote off with no evidence in the pros because he has only played 4 minutes. Jrue Holiday didn't look like a point and he's doing great. Ditto for Westbrook.

righteouscool
02-28-2011, 08:51 PM
the problem with lance at the 2 is height. lance is 6-4.5 with average hops. that makes him just another guy at the 2. playing guys that are both bigger and stonger. lance ends up looking like jarrett jack playing the 2. guys just shoot over him.

i don't know if lance can play the point or not. he has nice handles, but not great. he seems to look to pass. and is willing. if he can play the point, then he is an offensive weapon with his size. if he cannont, then he is just another 2.

pacers are doing the right thing trying to see if lance is a PG. high reward, low risk. grooming him as a w is a low reward, low risk. let's try the PG position first please.

I'm pretty sure Wade is 6'4 at most. I'm not comparing Lance to Wade, but I don't think height is the end all for the shooting guard position. I think Lance's lack of a 3pt shot will hurt him much more than his height.

pacer4ever
02-28-2011, 08:53 PM
I'm pretty sure Wade is 6'4 at most. I'm not comparing Lance to Wade, but I don't think height is the end all for the shooting guard position. I think Lance's lack of a 3pt shot will hurt him much more than his height.

Lance is 6"6 with shoes height isnt a issue

Sookie
02-28-2011, 08:54 PM
Lance is 6"6 with shoes height isnt a issue

yea, I think he's going to be bigger and stronger than most SGs anyway.

Hicks
02-28-2011, 09:02 PM
I don't think Lance is any shorter than 6'5". Seems pretty big.

pacer4ever
02-28-2011, 09:04 PM
I would have like to post him up a few times on Nash

McKeyFan
02-28-2011, 09:06 PM
I think Lance's lack of a 3pt shot will hurt him much more than his height.
I think the jury is still out on his three point shot. I've seen him make some.

I just don't think he's taken it that much. Doesn't mean he can't.

And that's one of the easier things to improve, anyway.

Trophy
02-28-2011, 09:09 PM
I don't think Lance is any shorter than 6'5". Seems pretty big.

He definitely had a huge size advantage over Steve Nash and it helped him play lock on defense.

He also looks a lot thinner than when he first was drafted which will be good for him when he gets some time at the point.

pacer4ever
02-28-2011, 09:09 PM
I think the jury is still out on his three point shot. I've seen him make some.

I just don't think he's taken it that much. Doesn't mean he can't.

And that's one of the easier things to improve, anyway.

I've watch nearly every pre game warm up of his. All he really works on is his 3 he isnt very constiant. But it might get to be decent in a few years right now it is pretty bad.

Trophy
02-28-2011, 09:15 PM
What I really liked from him was his ability to get in towards the basket and then find open guys like Brandon from behind the arc.

Having him out there with another PG like DC would throw opposing players off when he's passed the ball and with his ball handling, drives towards the basket with his speed.

IndyPacer
02-28-2011, 09:26 PM
All I am saying is that we have four minutes of game play to judge him on about his position, and he looked fine as a point for a 19 year old project. I'm not getting obsessed about him being a point guard, I'm getting tired of him just being wrote off when so far evidence suggests that he looked comfortable playing the point. He keeps just getting wrote off with no evidence in the pros because he has only played 4 minutes. Jrue Holiday didn't look like a point and he's doing great. Ditto for Westbrook.

I have stated before that I think Lance will be able to exploit certain matchups at the PG position, specifically against the less athletic, smaller backup PGs. I welcome that strategy. Lance could also do a bit of playmaking and passing at SG alongside Price or Collison if they have a hawk like Rondo bullying our PG. But I am still quite skeptical that Lance should be a full-time PG. I think he'll provide more benefits to our team at SG with his power, size, and ballhandling to score inside. He can still help us with good passing at any position, and I think SG will suit him best most of the time. But I'm with you guys about exploiting matchups at PG if he's not a lightning bolt like Westbrook, who I think will be too fast for Lance.

We'll see if Lance can be a full-time PG soon enough. Just like we don't have enough information to definitively state that he can't be a full-time PG, we also don't have enough information to show that he can. I'd just say the odds are he'll fit best scoring at SG most of the time.

90'sNBARocked
02-28-2011, 09:42 PM
It kills me how some people can claim that Paul George has "superstar" written all over him , after 50 some games, yet people say Lance is a career backup after 4 minutes of play at the NBA level

Its way too early to predict either end of the pendulum for both

MagicRat
03-01-2011, 01:45 AM
Here's some footage of Lance's debut, shot by private citizen Abraham Zapruder.....

<iframe title="YouTube video player" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gKlEulIzAfQ" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="390" width="480"></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ml7kkiyjS0Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Psyren
03-01-2011, 01:55 AM
PLEASE Frank,

Give me some Lance against Stephen Curry tomorrow (tonight). There's just absolutely no way Curry stands a chance.

Sincerly,

Me. :D

ECKrueger
03-01-2011, 02:18 AM
Here's some footage of Lance's debut, shot by private citizen Abraham Zapruder.....

<iframe title="YouTube video player" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gKlEulIzAfQ" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="390" width="480"></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ml7kkiyjS0Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Thanks a ton for the videos. I like that the crowd was really positive towards him. I hope this kid can have a good career, not just for us, but also for himself.

Peck
03-01-2011, 02:40 AM
It's to bad you couldn't have captured his Dad throwing confetti in the air when he hit his free throws.

He throws it in the air and a green coat behind him comes down and I'm thinking he is going to throw this guy out (I had no idea at the time who it was but suspected it had to be family) but instead of throwing the guy out or even saying something to him he gives Lance's Dad a high five.

Kind of cool really.

MagicRat
03-01-2011, 02:20 PM
Just for fun, here are the starting lineups from the game....

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/q0eDlG1Uu4U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>