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View Full Version : Going into the Offseason with Flexibility given uncertainty of CBA



CableKC
02-26-2011, 09:30 PM
This is technically another "What happened in the failed Mayo trade" article...but I wanted to discuss another aspect of "not doing anything" and where we stand going into the summer. Yes, you can ignore the parts about what could have happened with Mayo...but I wanted to discuss Bird's comments that I highlighted below:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110226/SPORTS04/102260317/Bird-claims-Grizzlies-pulled-deal-off-table-late


Indiana Pacers president Larry Bird said Friday the team's deal to acquire O.J. Mayo from Memphis fell apart when it was pulled from them two minutes before Thursday's 3 p.m. trading deadline.

"I was on the phone with Memphis. We had a deal with five minutes to go. At two minutes, they pulled the deal, and it didn't happen," Bird said, referring to the 3 p.m. deadline set by the NBA.

"We move on. We had plenty of opportunity to do other deals, but I didn't think it would improve our team. So what we do is wait until the summer. Our plan has always been to take advantage of what we have."

The deal that fell through would have sent starting forward Josh McRoberts and a first-round pick to Memphis for Mayo, a shooting guard with point guard ability.

As part of the three-team deal, the Pacers also would have sent shooting guard Brandon Rush and forward Solomon Jones to New Orleans for a draft pick and two unnamed players.

"We felt we had the opportunity to get a player who would help us and not give up a ton, even though I like Josh and Brandon," Bird said. "It's unfortunate it had to be a three-team deal because when you get more teams in it, anything that happen.

"It's tough on me because we worked three days to get a deal done, and they pull it off the table with two minutes to go. That's pretty hard to take."

It's the second time the Pacers have tried to trade Rush, who was part of a proposed deal with Charlotte last season.

"I try to move forward with this season and see what happens this summer," said Rush, the Pacers' starting shooting guard the rest of the way with Mike Dunleavy out following Friday's thumb surgery.

"They tried twice. I'm thinking they're going to try again. But it's the NBA. Everybody gets traded."

McRoberts, the Pacers' starting power forward and a Carmel, Ind., native, said he had no hard feelings.

"That's an upstairs deal," McRoberts said, referring to the team's front office. "I still have the same relationship with the coaching staff and my teammates. I have no hard feelings about it. It's a business. There's no hard feelings on anybody's side. You have to make the best decision for yourself. So does the team.''

The Pacers will have around $36 million in salary cap money this summer, depending on the new collective bargaining agreement.

"You don't spend it all, but obviously we're going after some players. We've got them targeted. It's going to be a good summer for us," Bird said.

"We don't know the rules of the collective bargaining yet, but we feel we're in a good position. I like our core group. We're going to lose some because their contracts are up."

McRoberts is one of the players without a contract beyond 2011.

"Josh had a very good year. He's going to do very well in the free agent market,'' Bird said. "We like Josh, but we felt that with 27 games to go, we had an opportunity to maybe get ourselves a little better. We'll worry about the summer when it comes."
This goes back to those clamouring that we had Expiring Contracts yet did nothing with them ( such as Kravitz ) and why I'm glad that Bird and Co. decided to only go "small" ( as in take in only long-term Contracts that make sense that fills a need....such as the attempt to get Mayo ) instead of going all in and taking on some huge Long-Term Contract. Given the uncertainty of the CBA and even the small possibility that Bird may step down ( remember, he hasn't 100% confirmed that he will be back )...I think that having great flexibility when it comes to our 2011-2012 SalaryCap will allow us to better adapt to the new CBA. I don't think that we will attract any top tier FA....but I think that if the FO plays their cards right and be patient...with the likely impact of the new CBA on many Teams that will be over the new SalaryCap and LT going into the 2011-2012 season...I think that there will be opportunities to improve in the same ways that the Thunder and Blazers have in the past due to their low SalaryCap. Also....this goes back to one of the comments that I recall Bird said about giving the Owners the most flexibility and options going into the 2011-2012 season...especially with the uncertainty of the CBA. That is my guess as to why we really didn't do anything of significance and why we were approaching this Trade deadline with a "we're not going to do anything unless something blows us out of the water" mentality.

It's also interesting what Bird said about some of the Players with Expiring Contracts not coming back....specifically McBob. As for Foster, I always assumed that we'd try to re-sign him to fill the role that Solo fills now....specifically being a Big Man that can come in when any of our likely 4 rotational Frontcourt Players get injured. But I wouldn't be surprised if some Team like the Knicks having some interest in him to fill the same role. As for who the Pacers are targeting....it would be nice to get an idea who Bird is thinking of.

Although it would have been exciting to see a New Player on the roster...I don't mind as much since I think that it would be better to have flexibility to make moves for the next couple of seasons.

pwee31
02-26-2011, 09:38 PM
I agree, a very interesting summer for the Blue & Gold. HUGE summer really

yoadknux
02-26-2011, 10:00 PM
It depends. In terms of free agency, we don't have too many options. My guess is we'll go for either Landry or West.
In terms of trades, who knows what's going to happen. I didn't believe we could trade Mc and a draft pick for OJ. Did anyone here guess we could trade Murphy for DC?
The tricky part is who we're gonna give on a trade though. Our options are probably trading Jones/Rush/Posey. Roy/DC/Granger should be part of no deals on our side (unless we get a superstar, or an upgrade at the spot we're trading). Lance/AJ, not sure if they have actual trade value (unless one of them really breaks out towards the end of the season, and if that happens, we shouldn't trade them).

Lets just hope we can get the best out of it...

CableKC
02-26-2011, 11:06 PM
It depends. In terms of free agency, we don't have too many options. My guess is we'll go for either Landry or West.
In terms of trades, who knows what's going to happen. I didn't believe we could trade Mc and a draft pick for OJ. Did anyone here guess we could trade Murphy for DC?
The tricky part is who we're gonna give on a trade though. Our options are probably trading Jones/Rush/Posey. Roy/DC/Granger should be part of no deals on our side (unless we get a superstar, or an upgrade at the spot we're trading). Lance/AJ, not sure if they have actual trade value (unless one of them really breaks out towards the end of the season, and if that happens, we shouldn't trade them).

Lets just hope we can get the best out of it...
Just like the Knicks...we don't have to blow it all in 1 season...nor do we have to go "all in" in the 2011-2012 offseason. I don't expect the FO to build a Championship level Team in 1 roll of the dice in the offseason.

Pacer Fan
02-26-2011, 11:49 PM
I'm Not disappointed on the Mayo deal, I think Pacers can do better in the off season. I think the Pacers will be sitting in a good place with the CBA going on. What do you think about Aaron Afflalo - sg for Denver, he has a QO coming up. he's a great shoot, can keep the floor spread and bigs honest!

beast23
02-27-2011, 12:36 AM
There is a statement in the write-up of the interview that is misleading.

"The Pacers will have around $36 million in salary cap money this summer, depending on the new collective bargaining agreement."

The Pacers DO NOT have 36M worth of free money available for spending. Instead they will have 10 players that carry over to next season with a combined total salary of 36.34M.

As an example, if the new CBA contained a salary limit (or even a hard cap) of 58M, the Pacers would have to sign their remaining players within a combined total of just under 22M.

The Pacers recently showed interest in trading for SG OJ Mayo (2011/12 5.6M). Many of us believe that they would have an interest in PF David West, who reportedly will opt out of his current contract valued at 7.5M. West is an example of a high-scoring PF that could be signed outright for as little as 8M and possibly as much as 12M. Mayo is under contract and would require a trade of comparable value. West is an example of a free agent that would be signed outright. Other possibilities for obtaining scorers might be SG Jamal Crawford (current salary 10M) and PF Carl Landry (current salary 3M).

What I'm saying is that it is very possible for the Pacers to acquire two of the better free agents this summer, but it does get a little tricky depending on the choices. If we traded for Mayo with current players, we preserve all of the cap space that could then be used to sign FAs. Obviously, it would have been nice to get this completed on Thursday to have one need out of the way; but that didn't happen. Looking further, signing two players like Crawford and West isn't going to happen... it's too expensive and leaves no money to sign the other players to fill out the roster.

Signing players like Crawford and Landry probably works. Trading for Mayo and signing West works.

A lot can happen and we have the money to do it. It all boils down to the players involved. But signing two of the better FAs that command higher-end salaries isn't going to happen.

will567
02-27-2011, 02:28 AM
We missed an opportunity by not making a move before the deadline and at some point we are going to have to realize that this group in the front office is happy being a low seed in the playoffs indefinitely. Every move we have made has been about being just good enough. Success to this group is not about winning but winning just enough. I find it hard to believe that with the glaring holes we have that we could not make a trade. Looking at things now we should be just good enough to make the playoffs so no trade needed at the deadline. We should be happy with just being just good enough because that is the best we are going to get.

Pacerized
02-27-2011, 02:37 AM
If we do end up with a hard cap of 58 mil, West won't be getting a contract offer even close to 12 mil. His own team wouldn't be able to keep him and we would one of only a handfull of teams able to make any offer at all. Next years free agents may be the first to feel the effects of a major reduction in salaries. West might only get an offer for less then he's currently making and it might be the best he can get. It's hard to guess how it might pan out but a true hard cap will mean a big hit for the middle class NBA players like West, and Nene.


There is a statement in the write-up of the interview that is misleading.

"The Pacers will have around $36 million in salary cap money this summer, depending on the new collective bargaining agreement."

As an example, if the new CBA contained a salary limit (or even a hard cap) of 58M, the Pacers would have to sign their remaining players within a combined total of just under 22M.

The Pacers recently showed interest in trading for SG OJ Mayo (2011/12 5.6M). Many of us believe that they would have an interest in PF David West, who reportedly will opt out of his current contract valued at 7.5M. West is an example of a high-scoring PF that could be signed outright for as little as 8M and possibly as much as 12M. Mayo is under contract and would require a trade of comparable value. West is an example of a free agent that would be signed outright. Other possibilities for obtaining scorers might be SG Jamal Crawford (current salary 10M) and PF Carl Landry (current salary 3M).

What I'm saying is that it is very possible for the Pacers to acquire two of the better free agents this summer, but it does get a little tricky depending on the choices. If we traded for Mayo with current players, we preserve all of the cap space that could then be used to sign FAs. Obviously, it would have been nice to get this completed on Thursday to have one need out of the way; but that didn't happen. Looking further, signing two players like Crawford and West isn't going to happen... it's too expensive and leaves no money to sign the other players to fill out the roster.

Signing players like Crawford and Landry probably works. Trading for Mayo and signing West works.

A lot can happen and we have the money to do it. It all boils down to the players involved. But signing two of the better FAs that command higher-end salaries isn't going to happen.

focused444
02-27-2011, 02:51 AM
The idea of absorbing a player's contract this summer is far more intriguing then this summers FA class IMO...

CableKC
02-27-2011, 03:42 AM
There is a statement in the write-up of the interview that is misleading.

"The Pacers will have around $36 million in salary cap money this summer, depending on the new collective bargaining agreement."

The Pacers DO NOT have 36M worth of free money available for spending. Instead they will have 10 players that carry over to next season with a combined total salary of 36.34M.

As an example, if the new CBA contained a salary limit (or even a hard cap) of 58M, the Pacers would have to sign their remaining players within a combined total of just under 22M.

The Pacers recently showed interest in trading for SG OJ Mayo (2011/12 5.6M). Many of us believe that they would have an interest in PF David West, who reportedly will opt out of his current contract valued at 7.5M. West is an example of a high-scoring PF that could be signed outright for as little as 8M and possibly as much as 12M. Mayo is under contract and would require a trade of comparable value. West is an example of a free agent that would be signed outright. Other possibilities for obtaining scorers might be SG Jamal Crawford (current salary 10M) and PF Carl Landry (current salary 3M).

What I'm saying is that it is very possible for the Pacers to acquire two of the better free agents this summer, but it does get a little tricky depending on the choices. If we traded for Mayo with current players, we preserve all of the cap space that could then be used to sign FAs. Obviously, it would have been nice to get this completed on Thursday to have one need out of the way; but that didn't happen. Looking further, signing two players like Crawford and West isn't going to happen... it's too expensive and leaves no money to sign the other players to fill out the roster.

Signing players like Crawford and Landry probably works. Trading for Mayo and signing West works.

A lot can happen and we have the money to do it. It all boils down to the players involved. But signing two of the better FAs that command higher-end salaries isn't going to happen.

See, this is what I'm saying when it comes to having capspace, it gives us options that we haven't had in a very long time and opportunities to improve the team.

CableKC
02-27-2011, 03:51 AM
We missed an opportunity by not making a move before the deadline and at some point we are going to have to realize that this group in the front office is happy being a low seed in the playoffs indefinitely. Every move we have made has been about being just good enough. Success to this group is not about winning but winning just enough. I find it hard to believe that with the glaring holes we have that we could not make a trade. Looking at things now we should be just good enough to make the playoffs so no trade needed at the deadline. We should be happy with just being just good enough because that is the best we are going to get.
Did u really think that we could have filled all the glaring issues in one trade deadline?

I do not doubt that Bird was willing to improve the team IF the opportunity presented itself to make a trade for a Player(s) that fit into the long-term goals of the team....but it looks like nothing came up ( or fell short due to the Hornets ).

But let's ignore that.....what players do you think we could have gotten that were actually available?

ballism
02-27-2011, 06:33 AM
"36 mil of cap space, depending on CBA"... I assume then the Pacers believe a 70 mil hard cap is reasonable to expect?

The Jackson shimmy
02-27-2011, 10:07 AM
There is NO WAY there will be a 'hard' cap at the existing cap level of
$58 mil. Wether it's $70 mil or whatever, if the new CBA includes a
'hard' cap, it'll be at a level above $58 mil.

Pacerized
02-27-2011, 11:22 AM
There is NO WAY there will be a 'hard' cap at the existing cap level of
$58 mil. Wether it's $70 mil or whatever, if the new CBA includes a
'hard' cap, it'll be at a level above $58 mil.


I agree, at least I think it will be somewhat above this. I hope it's less then 70 mil though, otherwise what's the point. If a hard cap is agreed upon I think it will be less then current LT threshold. The lower the cap the better it is for the Pacers and the more parity it will create.
If the cap is high the Pacers have enough room to sign or take on 2 big name players, if the cap is low, say 58 mil, then they still have enough because the same player won't cost as much. Of course there has to be 2 big name players available.

CableKC
02-27-2011, 03:40 PM
Okay, the # for how much $$$ that we have to spend may be off but regardless, we have the 1st to 3rd lowest salary cap going into next season....that means that we have options to make moves....something we never had before. We are in a better position to deal with the new CBA then the majority of the teams in the league. That's what counts. Also.....even I've we added OJ it wouldn't have made a huge impact to our salary cap next season.

owl
02-27-2011, 06:29 PM
Poseys 6 mil comes off after next season also. I suspect the hard cap will be rolled in over
3 years. I don't believe a draconian shift to a hard cap will ever get off the ground. It will have to be phased in.

graphic-er
02-27-2011, 06:46 PM
I hope we pull off a draft night trade for Mayo.

xIndyFan
02-27-2011, 08:08 PM
Okay, the # for how much $$$ that we have to spend may be off but regardless, we have the 1st to 3rd lowest salary cap going into next season....that means that we have options to make moves....something we never had before. We are in a better position to deal with the new CBA then the majority of the teams in the league. That's what counts. Also.....even I've we added OJ it wouldn't have made a huge impact to our salary cap next season.

:iagree:the lower the salary cap, the more players on the market after being 'alan houston'ed. the lower the max salary needed. being a buyer in a buyers market is a good thing.

bulldog
02-27-2011, 08:23 PM
Last time the CBA was redone, you were allowed to cut one contract off your books for the purposes of salary cap calculations: the so called Allan Houston rule.

Who would we cut if the same situation came up again? If the new salary cap is as strict as they say, I imagine teams will need a mulligan on at least one contract in order to remain viable over the next few years.

beast23
02-27-2011, 08:45 PM
There is NO WAY there will be a 'hard' cap at the existing cap level of
$58 mil. Wether it's $70 mil or whatever, if the new CBA includes a
'hard' cap, it'll be at a level above $58 mil.
I disagree with this entirely.

Anything above that amount is totally useless to smaller market teams and those teams that are losing money... which is around 3 out of every 4 teams in the league.

The lower the hard cap, the more likely parity will eventually be achieved... and the more likely that mid-tier and upper-tier players (as free agents) will eventually become more evenly distributed throughout the league.

pacer4ever
02-27-2011, 08:49 PM
I disagree with this entirely.

Anything above that amount is totally useless to smaller market teams and those teams that are losing money... which is around 3 out of every 4 teams in the league.

The lower the hard cap, the more likely parity will eventually be achieved... and the more likely that mid-tier and upper-tier players (as free agents) will eventually become more evenly distributed throughout the league.

Players wont agree to anything lower than 70 i think