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diamonddave00
02-25-2011, 10:49 PM
On Pacers.com they have an interview of Larry Bird discussing the failed O J Mayo trade. He saw Mayo as a 16-18 ppg , and said " he plays defense" that his putting the ball in the hole was the key.

From way Larry's voice sounded I think he will go after Mayo again after the season - but the cost will be a lot higher.

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 10:53 PM
On Pacers.com they have an interview of Larry Bird discussing the failed O J Mayo trade. He saw Mayo as a 16-18 ppg , and said " he plays defense" that his putting the ball in the hole was the key.

From way Larry's voice sounded I think he will go after Mayo again after the season - but the cost will be a lot higher.

I've been trying to say that the pacers will go after him this summer. mayo is not staying in Memphis

DemonHunter1105
02-25-2011, 10:55 PM
Is he going to be a FA? I feel like I should know this since people probably discussed it in other threads but I just chose not read those since it was the same BS over and over.

diamonddave00
02-25-2011, 10:56 PM
I see the cost being higher will be interesting to see in the end what the Grizzlies get for him. Personally aside from George , and perhaps Collison, I'd give up about everyone else- yes including Hibbert.

beast23
02-25-2011, 11:03 PM
I see the cost being higher will be interesting to see in the end what the Grizzlies get for him. Personally aside from George , and perhaps Collison, I'd give up about everyone else- yes including Hibbert.Hibbert? Wow, you really got it bad for Mayo. I don't know that I could give up a young starting center for Mayo. Gordon, yes. But Mayo?

------

To answer a previous question in the thread, next season will be Mayo's last under his rookie contract at 5.6M. His qualifying offer for the following season is 7.4M.

Mr_Smith
02-25-2011, 11:04 PM
The bottom line is that the guy is a scorer and I would love to have him on the team despite what the local media (jmv cough cough) says. His scoring ability was evident when the griz came to conseco not too long ago.

Trophy
02-25-2011, 11:06 PM
I do think Memphis also wants to send Mayo here and we would like him.

I have a good feeling Bird will continue to keep an eye on him and acquire him in the offseason.

pwee31
02-25-2011, 11:08 PM
Thing is, if the Pacers want Mayo in the off-season, they likely won't have to match salaries or send a player to Memphis, they can just trade a pick and absorb the contract if they really want him.

Though you would have liked to get the deal done before then to limit other potential suitors, and perhaps unload other players you didn't want for other assets

DemonHunter1105
02-25-2011, 11:08 PM
I am not too sure what we would be willing to give up for him. Would they take a sign and trade with Josh + filler + pick?

diamonddave00
02-25-2011, 11:11 PM
Roy Hibbert in my opinion is highly over rated when teams play him tough and bang him he has a tendancy to disappear. Tonight he had 7 points and 4 rebounds in the 1st 7 minutes but ended the game with 14 points and 8 boards.

His lack of quickness allows opposing centers to fade to the foul line for open jumpers while he scambles to get to them. Tonight his lack of quicks allowed Jefferson and Millsap to contol the boards , he is slow reacting off his feet .

The league is getting away from lumbering 7' footers and going to quick athletic big men , something no matter how hard he tries Roy will never be.

I'm not a huge Mayo fan but his game is what the Pacers lack at the 2 guard, I like Paul George a lot and see him as a star but more of a combo wing than a 2 guard.

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 11:14 PM
Roy Hibbert in my opinion is highly over rated when teams play him tough and bang him he has a tendancy to disappear.

I've been saying that all season. It isn't tall defenders that give him problems it is the really physical defenders.

In all fairness though the Jazz double teamed Roy hard tonight, especially early and that took us out of our offense

ballism
02-25-2011, 11:15 PM
It seems their real aim with this trade was to clear the cap space, probably for resigning Gasol/Randolph.
I think taking up his contract straight up for 1st pick(s) is more likely than McRoberts sign and trade. We'll have plenty of cap to do that.

Better yet, we could pull a draft day trade, with the pick and expirings.

DemonHunter1105
02-25-2011, 11:16 PM
Well I think if we just had a couple more weapons we could get Roy easier looks. He is still a 7footer with soft touch that can shoot over almost anybody if he gets it in the right spot.

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 11:16 PM
shouldn't the trade deadline be moved up 6 weeks or so. that way teams can adjust to their new guys before the playoffs

PR07
02-25-2011, 11:17 PM
I wouldn't trade Hibbert for Mayo. Hibbert has his flaws, for one he needs to get better at recognizing the defense and passing out/re-posting instead of forcing shots. However, he gives us a legitimate low block frontcourt player that we can work our offense around.

Mayo was just about had for McRoberts and a first round pick, and while I do think his value will be higher in the offseason, not Roy Hibbert higher.

ballism
02-25-2011, 11:20 PM
They are resigning Gasol this summer, Hibbert doesn't even make sense to them. There's no point to talk about it.

Kegboy
02-25-2011, 11:24 PM
If Memphis really wants McTradeable, we could always do an S&T this summer/winter/10th of never.

diamonddave00
02-25-2011, 11:27 PM
I know Hibbert makes no sense , my point was i think most on here see Mayo as no better than Rush , while I think he's a far better player than that. A lot of fans on here are swayed by hustle and likability into believing they are better than they actually are. Hustle and enthusiasm only beats talent when talent doesn't try.

Hibbert , McRoberts and Hansbrough seem to be great guys but most on here over rate them based on that fact. They are workman like players but none will ever be an All Star ( not even Hibbert).

In many ways I see Mayo as a Jalen Rose type a highly rated college player coming in who landed in a bad situation for him. Rose himself stated Mayo would love Indy and Bird would be the best thing for him in his development. Jalen is speaking from personal experience.

CircleCity3318
02-25-2011, 11:27 PM
[QUOTE=diamonddave00;1179622]Roy Hibbert in my opinion is highly over rated when teams play him tough and bang him he has a tendancy to disappear. Tonight he had 7 points and 4 rebounds in the 1st 7 minutes but ended the game with 14 points and 8 boards.

Hibbert is very young, just wait until he gains muscle so he isn't so easy to knock off the block and be out of position

pacer4ever
02-25-2011, 11:33 PM
Im not gonna lie I want OJ to be a pacer really bad.


off season: OJ for a 1st rd pick make it happen Larry

Trophy
02-25-2011, 11:37 PM
I think Memphis is still gonna want Josh via S&T and also our 2011 pick and we'll give them Brandon also for Mayo.

I see Bird making that deal.

We'll look at our options in the free agent market in signing a PF.

Magic P
02-26-2011, 12:24 AM
Getting Mayo means Danny's time as a Pacer is just about over.

jeffg-body
02-26-2011, 12:32 AM
If Mayo is that special of a player, maybe a S&T around draft time to get him and then look to get a legit big 4 that can play next to hibbert and defend the paint.

Jared Sullinger
02-26-2011, 12:40 AM
It's interesting that Bird thinks Mayo is a defender after hearing so many say otherwise.

Could someone with access to that newfangled fancypants stats keeping website (I forgot the name of it) post some of Mayo's defensive numbers? Thanks in advance.

Gold
02-26-2011, 12:43 AM
Roy Hibbert in my opinion is highly over rated when teams play him tough and bang him he has a tendancy to disappear. Tonight he had 7 points and 4 rebounds in the 1st 7 minutes but ended the game with 14 points and 8 boards.

His lack of quickness allows opposing centers to fade to the foul line for open jumpers while he scambles to get to them. Tonight his lack of quicks allowed Jefferson and Millsap to contol the boards , he is slow reacting off his feet .

The league is getting away from lumbering 7' footers and going to quick athletic big men , something no matter how hard he tries Roy will never be.

I'm not a huge Mayo fan but his game is what the Pacers lack at the 2 guard, I like Paul George a lot and see him as a star but more of a combo wing than a 2 guard.

That's definitely how it used to be but the Jazz game seemed to be mostly him just being double teamed... which sometimes turned into triple teams when he tried to do a move and shoot.

BlueNGold
02-26-2011, 12:49 AM
Getting Mayo means Danny's time as a Pacer is just about over.

This is the unspoken truth. At least I haven't seen many pickup on it.

You don't go after Mayo for him to backup anyone. He'd be the starting SG and I seriously doubt Paul George is going to backup Granger. This is all about improving the talent level. Both Paul and OJ are exceptional offensive weapons who can get their own shots. That cannot be said of any other player on the Pacers.

BlueNGold
02-26-2011, 12:54 AM
People don't seem to remember the growth we've seen in Hibbert since last year. Anyone recall that he couldn't stay on the floor due to fouling every other time down the court?

Anyway, I would not write him off yet. He has the potential to be an all-star in this league. No, he's not close to that but teams don't load up on him because he stinks. He's already good and as his body matures he is going to be a load on offense for a long time. Also, as the team improves it will take pressure off him and you will see a cumulative effect.

Eleazar
02-26-2011, 01:07 AM
This is the unspoken truth. At least I haven't seen many pickup on it.

You don't go after Mayo for him to backup anyone. He'd be the starting SG and I seriously doubt Paul George is going to backup Granger. This is all about improving the talent level. Both Paul and OJ are exceptional offensive weapons who can get their own shots. That cannot be said of any other player on the Pacers.

That was my thought to, but if that is the point I would rather just trade Granger straight up for "his replacement".

Whiskeyjim
02-26-2011, 01:08 AM
<i>Roy Hibbert in my opinion is highly over rated when teams play him tough and bang him he has a tendancy to disappear. Tonight he had 7 points and 4 rebounds in the 1st 7 minutes but ended the game with 14 points and 8 boards.</i>

Hibbert is young. Let him grow up. There's nothing wrong with Hibbert that tying a bag of potatoes to his leg and making him eat his way out won't cure. That and some personal counseling on how to play the post when he draws attention.

BlueNGold
02-26-2011, 01:11 AM
That was my thought to, but if that is the point I would rather just trade Granger straight up for "his replacement".

His replacement is on the roster already. Paul will be the starting SF eventually if OJ Mayo become a Pacer.

Granger will be used to acquire another asset because Paul will own the SF position. The hardest question is what they would want to fill on the team. Obviously they would want starting level quality and I see the PF and PG positions to be the likeliest places for that piece.

The way Collison is playing, we may need to check IUPUI rec league for a PG....

xIndyFan
02-26-2011, 01:27 AM
strikes me that mayo was a target of opportunity instead of a guy [like landry] that the pacers have been looking at for a while. a chance to swap a guy that is not a long range plan guy for a guy that could be in the core going forward. this means mayo is not someone the pacers are going to keep after.

bird was looking to buy low and sell high. good for him. but it looks like the other side took a look at what they were doing and decided it was a bad deal. cause it was. stuff happens. :whoknows:

Isaac
02-26-2011, 01:30 AM
Dream offseason scenario:

Revisit acquiring Mayo without giving up any core players.
Trade Granger to Atlanta for Josh Smith.

Adding Mayo and Smith would make us extremely potent and versatile offensively. I would even like to make those moves and take a pass on the 2011 free agent class, other than filling out the bench with signings like Chalmers, Boris Diaw, Mbah a Moute, Ronny Turiaf, somone like that. A core of Collison/Mayo/PG24/Josh Smith and Hibbert with Tyler as an energy 6th man would probably be good enough for a 6 seed and then you take a shot with the better free agent class of 2012 and try to land a bigger fish. I don't want to make the mistake the Pistons made and blow our cap room on Charlie V and Ben Gordon type players just because we have the money for it.

xIndyFan
02-26-2011, 01:30 AM
Getting Mayo means Danny's time as a Pacer is just about over.

i disagree. mayo was coming in as the third wing in a 3 wing rotation. he was replacing brandon rush not danny.

pizza guy
02-26-2011, 01:52 AM
Tonight was my the first time I've attended a game this season, and it was killing me thinking that we could have had Mayo tonight. We needed someone to hit some shots and create. DC tried, but he's not there yet. Danny is not that type of player. Hibbert was good for awhile, but more on him in a minute. Hans had nothing tonight. JMac should've gotten more minutes, but he's not going to set the court on fire. Paul George couldn't get it going either.

We needed a flat out scorer that could create, and Mayo would've been it.

Now, to Hibbert. I love the guy (bought his jersey tonight actually). He's got touch, he's got emotion, he's got skill, he's got size. What he needs is muscle. I said it a couple months ago -- he needs to spend his offseason with Hans, doing whatever workout he does. I was talking to my dad after tonight's game and I told him that the Pacers were just out-muscled tonight. It was brutally obvious in the last 3 minutes. Jefferson and Millsap had their way down low, and Roy is not strong enough to stop that.

I'm really hoping we can get Mayo in the offseason, but I worry that other teams look at that deal and think to themselves, "If Josh McWho can get OJ Mayo to Indy, why don't we send John McBetter for him instead?" I'm crossing my fingers, and I bet Bird gives it his best shot. I just hope that's going to be enough.

Scot Pollard
02-26-2011, 02:00 AM
so we can find a new pf

love josh hes a great guy and a true hoosier but mayo can make us a contender

also looking at paul in the future and mayo too thats going to be nice

both guys dont play the same so it wouldnt be like freakin wade and lebron who need the ball all the time

Pacersalltheway10
02-26-2011, 02:22 AM
Trade Josh for mayo.

Sign Wilson Chandler.

Trade Danny for a top PF like Josh smith.

Collison /price / mayo
George / mayo/Lance
Chandler/ Rush
Josh Smith/ Tyler
Hibbert/ FA

Very good young core . Add some more pieces and we aren't far from being contenders if they all live up to there potential.

pacer4ever
02-26-2011, 02:25 AM
Trade Josh for mayo.

Sign Wilson Chandler.

Trade Danny for a top PF like Josh smith.

Collison /price / mayo
George / mayo/Lance
Chandler/ Rush
Josh Smith/ Tyler
Hibbert/ FA

Very good young core . Add some more pieces and we aren't far from being contenders if they all live up to there potential.

Chandler is gonna cost 2 much

Scot Pollard
02-26-2011, 02:26 AM
do you guys think danny granger is going to be a pacer his whole career?

pacer4ever
02-26-2011, 02:31 AM
do you guys think danny granger is going to be a pacer his whole career?

if we trade for OJ this summer no but if we dont maybe but proably not.

Pacersalltheway10
02-26-2011, 02:33 AM
do you guys think danny granger is going to be a pacer his whole career?
I want him to be but if you can get Josh smith for him , you do it.

Spirit
02-26-2011, 02:36 AM
I see the cost being higher will be interesting to see in the end what the Grizzlies get for him. Personally aside from George , and perhaps Collison, I'd give up about everyone else- yes including Hibbert.
Say no to drugs bro.

croz24
02-26-2011, 02:40 AM
mayo is the type of guy granger needs. i don't think it's a must to trade granger if we acquire a mayo level talent unless we are still in dire need of a pf at that point. a core of collison, mayo, george, and hibbert is very promising. but i think mayo will now be out of our range come the offseason.

pacer4ever
02-26-2011, 02:43 AM
mayo is the type of guy granger needs. i don't think it's a must to trade granger if we acquire a mayo level talent unless we are still in dire need of a pf at that point. a core of collison, mayo, george, and hibbert is very promising. but i think mayo will now be out of our range come the offseason.

I dont think so Bird will give a good package to get Mayo. Not many are willing to give what we could. The reason Beasley didnt get a great return was attuite and cap issue for Miami. I think a 1st and a future 2nd would get it done.

croz24
02-26-2011, 02:48 AM
I dont think so Bird will give a good package to get Mayo. Not many are willing to give what we could. The reason Beasley didnt get a great return was attuite and cap issue for Miami. I think a 1st and a future 2nd would get it done.

you honestly believe only a mid 1st and future 2nd would get mayo?

pacer4ever
02-26-2011, 02:51 AM
you honestly believe only a mid 1st and future 2nd would get mayo?

With the way the grizz operate yes. **** we just almost got him for J-mac and a 1st

Taterhead
02-26-2011, 03:25 AM
The Jazz double teamed Roy all night just like almost every other team does, and that tells you why he is so important to this franchise. How many other 23 year old centers get double teamed almost every time they touch the ball in the low post? So he has trouble with physical defenders, most players do. It's called good defense. Roy is 23 and he has a long time to learn how to handle it better. But give up on him and you're gonna make yourself look silly one day, IMO.

I can't believe the criticism of that kid. He has had a great season and people trash him after every loss he has a bad game. It's puzzling.

And on Mayo, I was salivating at the idea of getting him. Some on here criticize his defense but they obviously don't know what they are talking about. That is one of his biggest strengths and always has been. He can defend those big PG's we have problems with, that is one reason I think Bird targeted him. He is also a great slasher and exciting to watch. His shooting percentages are way down this year, but were respectable his first two seasons, including from 3. I think people forget this guy was the number 1 recruit coming out of HS for a lot of people, even ahead of Derrick Rose. He went to USC and was their best player as a freshman. That team put a lot of pressure on him to carry them and he just wasn't quite ready for it. He still had a good year and was a top pick in a damn good draft. In many drafts he's easily the number 1 pick, but that was an amazing draft that year. And the fact that we might have landed Landry as well makes it a potentially great trade. Too bad it didn't work out. I like Josh but he is a back-up PF at best. Mayo is the kind of talent we need here.

I hope we can land him in the off season for draft picks. I would give up 2 1sts no problem.

croz24
02-26-2011, 03:39 AM
With the way the grizz operate yes. **** we just almost got him for J-mac and a 1st

but there should be more suitors come the offseason and the pacers just showed their hand. memphis will now have more trading power than they had at the deadline.

Taterhead
02-26-2011, 03:44 AM
It's interesting that Bird thinks Mayo is a defender after hearing so many say otherwise.

Could someone with access to that newfangled fancypants stats keeping website (I forgot the name of it) post some of Mayo's defensive numbers? Thanks in advance.

I think somebody just watched Kobe light him up one night on TNT while they were half asleep and made a judgment call.

heywoode
02-26-2011, 04:03 AM
Isn't anyone concerned about or wanting to address his baggage issues? I know next to nothing about the guy. I watched a couple youtube highlight vids, and I admire his game and love that facet of him. I am, however, VERY concerned about how he'd fit in and what level of responsibility/maturity he can show outside of basketball. If he's going to be ANY KIND of pain in the as, I'd pass at anything other than giving up the bare minimum to get him with as little guaranteed for him as possible until he proves himself capable of representing the Pacers in our community and our state.

Like I said, I know very little about the guy overall, so I could be totally full of ***...

pacer4ever
02-26-2011, 04:06 AM
Isn't anyone concerned about or wanting to address his baggage issues? I know next to nothing about the guy. I watched a couple youtube highlight vids, and I admire his game and love that facet of him. I am, however, VERY concerned about how he'd fit in and what level of responsibility/maturity he can show outside of basketball. If he's going to be ANY KIND of pain in the as, I'd pass at anything other than giving up the bare minimum to get him with as little guaranteed for him as possible until he proves himself capable of representing the Pacers in our community and our state.

Like I said, I know very little about the guy overall, so I could be totally full of ***...

Here is Morway transcript about taking on "risky players" in this case explaining the OJ Mayo deal



"I can guarantee you that, we expend a tremendous amount of effort, time, money, in doing our due diligence in terms of the players that we are going to bring into this franchise, we do extensive background checks, we do sicological profiles" It looks like they are sure that Mayo is not going to be a problem.

heywoode
02-26-2011, 04:22 AM
That makes me feel much better. Thanks! He certainly is a playmaker on his highlight reels, but most NBA players can look devastating in a series of 5 second clips set to a good bass line...so I don't know how to feel beyond that.

I suppose the fact that he was a 3rd overall pick would lead me to agree with the notion that adding him at the cost of Josh and a first (how high a pick could that translate to, though?) round pick would've been a steal...

HOOPFANATIC
02-26-2011, 08:18 AM
In many ways I see Mayo as a Jalen Rose type a highly rated college player coming in who landed in a bad situation for him. Rose himself stated Mayo would love Indy and Bird would be the best thing for him in his development. Jalen is speaking from personal experience.

This is what I don't see. Indiana fans couldn't stand Jalen Rose. We tolerated him, what we wanted was somebody who didn't shoot so much, and try to go one on one. I know people THINK they want Mayo but this fanbase is not gonna like a guy who needs to shoot the ball alot and go one on one. That is....unless we he brings wins, which I have no faith in due to the FACT that he hasn't in Memphis. I see him as a waste of time. We don't need a Showtime player in a blue collar town. See Utah and San Antonio.

rm1369
02-26-2011, 08:38 AM
I know people THINK they want Mayo but this fanbase is not gonna like a guy who needs to shoot the ball alot and go one on one.

They seem to like Tyler.

BlueNGold
02-26-2011, 09:28 AM
Here is Morway transcript about taking on "risky players" in this case explaining the OJ Mayo deal

It looks like they are sure that Mayo is not going to be a problem.

They were sure about Lance too and he's had two incidents since being drafted. Let's look at Morway's statement:



"I can guarantee you that, we expend a tremendous amount of effort, time, money, in doing our due diligence in terms of the players that we are going to bring into this franchise, we do extensive background checks, we do sicological profiles"


Ok, he is saying they expend effort, time and money on due diligence. I certainly do agree with that. But he is NOT saying he is "sure that Mayo is not going to be a problem". They have basically done their homework and were apparently ready to take on the risk. Same exact thing happened with Lance and egg was quickly on the face.

Personally, I think their due diligence is insufficient. I suspect they do a good job justifying a trade because they are truly in love with talent not unlike what happened in the JO years.

Nothing has changed folks.

McKeyFan
02-26-2011, 10:23 AM
McTradeable
:laugh:

Hibbert
02-26-2011, 10:26 AM
Roy Hibbert in my opinion is highly over rated when teams play him tough and bang him he has a tendancy to disappear. Tonight he had 7 points and 4 rebounds in the 1st 7 minutes but ended the game with 14 points and 8 boards.

His lack of quickness allows opposing centers to fade to the foul line for open jumpers while he scambles to get to them. Tonight his lack of quicks allowed Jefferson and Millsap to contol the boards , he is slow reacting off his feet .

The league is getting away from lumbering 7' footers and going to quick athletic big men , something no matter how hard he tries Roy will never be.

I'm not a huge Mayo fan but his game is what the Pacers lack at the 2 guard, I like Paul George a lot and see him as a star but more of a combo wing than a 2 guard.

A lot of people need to realize that Roy is only 24 yrs. old and that it takes centers a lot longer to peak than any other position. His numbers have increased in every major category each season and his presence on the court alone is much needed for this team on both ends of the court. I also believe that having JOB as our coach stunted his growth quite a bit and had a negative impact on his career so far but he will be a late bloomer and Im happy with his production and his progress so far.

BringJackBack
02-26-2011, 10:29 AM
You guys, Roy was getting triple and quadruple teamed.. No wonder he played bad.

No one is going to play well on a triple team. Danny and Rush killed our movement by being too lazy to move without the ball when the ball was in Roy's hands.. That killed Roy's game. He had no one to pass too besides Josh. Thus when he got the ball all of the wings dug into him while Granger and Rush wanted to shoot a stand still three.

nyballer31
02-26-2011, 11:08 AM
This is the unspoken truth. At least I haven't seen many pickup on it.

You don't go after Mayo for him to backup anyone. He'd be the starting SG and I seriously doubt Paul George is going to backup Granger. This is all about improving the talent level. Both Paul and OJ are exceptional offensive weapons who can get their own shots. That cannot be said of any other player on the Pacers.

Really? Sam Young and Tony Allen are taking away his minutes.

OJ Mayo has not shown that he is this great offensive juggernaut that alot of people on this site keep on saying he is.The guy is a very good jumpshooter, and he will score most of his points spotting up and hitting open jumpers,coming off screens, take a dribble or two and hit a runner or floater but this notion that you can give him the ball in a iso and let him create or breakdown his defender is just not true.He's been in the NBA now 3 years + 1 year of college and he has not shown that he can get to the basket on a consistant basis.Alot of that is because he's not a great athlete, he doesn't have a quick first, and he doesn't have the explosiveness that some of the smaller 2 guards have that make them so good getting and finishing at the basket.If his shot is off its hard for him to score.He just doesn't get to the line like the elite guards in the game do.


At this point in his career its more likely he ends up like a Ben Gordan or Jamal Crawford then a star.Nice player to bring off the bench for instant offense or a complimentary starter on a good team.He's not a #1 option or # 2 option type of player.

owl
02-26-2011, 11:09 AM
Nothing has changed folks.

I think you need to pay closer attention.

IndyPacer
02-26-2011, 11:37 AM
It is stunning to me that Roy isn't valued more highly here.

BlueNGold
02-26-2011, 11:53 AM
I think you need to pay closer attention.

LOL. Yes, things have changed. But other key things have stayed the same.

The Pacers give lip service to ensuring they don't bring in bad apples, yet that's what they attempt to acquire. Stephenson had one of the worst reputations in the draft, but his perceived talent overrode that concern.

What did we get? The start of another string of "Pacer player in the news" stories. Two issues arose before half a season passed with ONE player. Not a good start.

Now we see them attempting to acquire a guy who's been recently suspended and has a bad rep. himself. I suppose we can believe the Pacers did their "due diligence", but so far it looks lame to say the least.

This is the part that hasn't changed. The Pacers will acquire whatever player they want if it means the team gains talent. Character is just a thing they talk about filtering. It's all talk and absolutely nothing has changed on this issue since the days of SJax and Artest.

xIndyFan
02-26-2011, 12:30 PM
do you guys think danny granger is going to be a pacer his whole career?

yes, unless he plays his contract out and leaves. imo, bird sees danny and paul as the guys leading us to the ECF.

Gamble1
02-26-2011, 12:32 PM
With the way the grizz operate yes. **** we just almost got him for J-mac and a 1st
I think either the Grizz were really high on Jmac or there weren't too many suitors for Mayo.

I liked to believe that we could get him for a first and second round pick but I have my doubts. Only a handful of teams will be able to beat out our first but I think we would still have to give up something. The problem is that they are loaded up on mediocre guards and thats the only thing we could give them next year. Also not to mention how pissed they must be that the trade didn't go through.

xIndyFan
02-26-2011, 12:40 PM
. . . You don't go after Mayo for him to backup anyone. He'd be the starting SG and I seriously doubt Paul George is going to backup Granger. This is all about improving the talent level. Both Paul and OJ are exceptional offensive weapons who can get their own shots. That cannot be said of any other player on the Pacers.

:laugh: not at you, but at me. i agree and disagree with your post.

jmo, but i think mayo was a target of opportunity. a guy they could get without paying much for him. not a guy they wanted to be a star. but a guy they wanted that was better than what they had. mayo is a guy that can get his own shot and a decent defender [albeit undersized for a SG]. he is a better player than brandon rush. the pacers wanted him to take brandon's spot in the core. the 3rd wing behind paul and danny. not to be the starter, but a more talented role player than what they have now.

pacer4ever
02-26-2011, 12:48 PM
I think either the Grizz were really high on Jmac or there weren't too many suitors for Mayo.

I liked to believe that we could get him for a first and second round pick but I have my doubts. Only a handful of teams will be able to beat out our first but I think we would still have to give up something. The problem is that they are loaded up on mediocre guards and thats the only thing we could give them next year. Also not to mention how pissed they must be that the trade didn't go through.

S&T with the Grizz with Jmac if they are that high on him

Gamble1
02-26-2011, 12:48 PM
:laugh: not at you, but at me. i agree and disagree with your post.

jmo, but i think mayo was a target of opportunity. a guy they could get without paying much for him. not a guy they wanted to be a star. but a guy they wanted that was better than what they had. mayo is a guy that can get his own shot and a decent defender [albeit undersized for a SG]. he is a better player than brandon rush. the pacers wanted him to take brandon's spot in the core. the 3rd wing behind paul and danny. not to be the starter, but a more talented role player than what they have now.
I don't think they know what they want besides a talent upgrade. Bird doesn't want to replace anyone besides Rush and Dun. Personally I see Mayo starting and Paul being the 3rd guy until Mayo's contract is up. I guess it doesn't really matter now.

vnzla81
02-26-2011, 12:50 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110226/SPORTS04/102260317/Bird-claims-Grizzlies-pulled-deal-off-table-late?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Sports|s


Bird claims Grizzlies pulled deal off table late

Indiana Pacers president Larry Bird said Friday the team's deal to acquire O.J. Mayo from Memphis fell apart when it was pulled from them two minutes before Thursday's 3 p.m. trading deadline.

"I was on the phone with Memphis. We had a deal with five minutes to go. At two minutes, they pulled the deal, and it didn't happen," Bird said, referring to the 3 p.m. deadline set by the NBA.

"We move on. We had plenty of opportunity to do other deals, but I didn't think it would improve our team. So what we do is wait until the summer. Our plan has always been to take advantage of what we have."

The deal that fell through would have sent starting forward Josh McRoberts and a first-round pick to Memphis for Mayo, a shooting guard with point guard ability.

As part of the three-team deal, the Pacers also would have sent shooting guard Brandon Rush and forward Solomon Jones to New Orleans for a draft pick and two unnamed players.

"We felt we had the opportunity to get a player who would help us and not give up a ton, even though I like Josh and Brandon," Bird said. "It's unfortunate it had to be a three-team deal because when you get more teams in it, anything that happen.

"It's tough on me because we worked three days to get a deal done, and they pull it off the table with two minutes to go. That's pretty hard to take."

It's the second time the Pacers have tried to trade Rush, who was part of a proposed deal with Charlotte last season.

"I try to move forward with this season and see what happens this summer," said Rush, the Pacers' starting shooting guard the rest of the way with Mike Dunleavy out following Friday's thumb surgery.

"They tried twice. I'm thinking they're going to try again. But it's the NBA. Everybody gets traded."

McRoberts, the Pacers' starting power forward and a Carmel, Ind., native, said he had no hard feelings.

"That's an upstairs deal," McRoberts said, referring to the team's front office. "I still have the same relationship with the coaching staff and my teammates. I have no hard feelings about it. It's a business. There's no hard feelings on anybody's side. You have to make the best decision for yourself. So does the team.''

The Pacers will have around $36 million in salary cap money this summer, depending on the new collective bargaining agreement.

"You don't spend it all, but obviously we're going after some players. We've got them targeted. It's going to be a good summer for us," Bird said.

"We don't know the rules of the collective bargaining yet, but we feel we're in a good position. I like our core group. We're going to lose some because their contracts are up."

McRoberts is one of the players without a contract beyond 2011.

"Josh had a very good year. He's going to do very well in the free agent market,'' Bird said. "We like Josh, but we felt that with 27 games to go, we had an opportunity to maybe get ourselves a little better. We'll worry about the summer when it comes."

Gamble1
02-26-2011, 12:52 PM
S&T with the Grizz with Jmac if they are that high on him
Thats what I hope for. They will have a lot of money next year since they probably won't bring back Zbo.

A sign and trade is always dependent on the player/agent and team. I think the Grizz would do it if it meant 3-4 million over 4 years. Part of me thinks there intrest in McBob was more about a playoff push than a long term solution to there pf situation.

xIndyFan
02-26-2011, 12:53 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110226/SPORTS04/102260317/Bird-claims-Grizzlies-pulled-deal-off-table-late?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Sports|s


"We don't know the rules of the collective bargaining yet, but we feel we're in a good position. I like our core group. We're going to lose some because their contracts are up."

McRoberts is one of the players without a contract beyond 2011.


:hmm:sounds like bird has decided that tyler is his guy at the backup PF going forward.

xIndyFan
02-26-2011, 12:57 PM
S&T with the Grizz with Jmac if they are that high on him

depending on the CBA, i just don't see any reason the grizz would do this when they could just sign him outright. they will have mucho cap space next year.:hmm:

vnzla81
02-26-2011, 01:01 PM
:hmm:sounds like bird has decided that tyler is his guy at the backup PF going forward.

We knew this by the time he decided to trade Josh.

Gamble1
02-26-2011, 01:31 PM
depending on the CBA, i just don't see any reason the grizz would do this when they could just sign him outright. they will have mucho cap space next year.:hmm:
The point is not to get into a bidding war for him. IF they can prevent him from getting to FA then they may prevent overpaying for him.

Jared Sullinger
02-26-2011, 06:04 PM
Mayo could've become our own Eric Gordon. Probably not as much scoring, but superior defense.

pacer4ever
02-26-2011, 06:12 PM
Mayo could've become our own Eric Gordon. Probably not as much scoring, but superior defense.

:wtf2:Eric Gordon's defense is the strongest part of his game. Mayo not so much

Jared Sullinger
02-26-2011, 06:31 PM
:wtf2:Eric Gordon's defense is the strongest part of his game. Mayo not so much

Given that he's currently a top-10 scorer in the league, for your statement to be true, Gordon would have to be an All-Defensive team-level defender and at least an honorary mention for Defensive Player of the Year. Given that he's so undersized for his position, consider me highly skeptical.

As for Mayo's defense, I can't say I've watched enough of Memphis to get a good grasp on it but Bird seems to like it. With all due respect, I'll side with the Legend over you until given reason not to.

pacer4ever
02-26-2011, 06:38 PM
Given that he's currently a top-10 scorer in the league, for your statement to be true, Gordon would have to be an All-Defensive team-level defender and at least an honorary mention for Defensive Player of the Year. Given that he's so undersized for his position, consider me highly skeptical.

As for Mayo's defense, I can't say I've watched enough of Memphis to get a good grasp on it but Bird seems to like it. With all due respect, I'll side with the Legend over you until given reason not to.

maybe not strongest but it is a strong suit.

It is the reason he played over Curry and Granger for team USA.



lets just say defensivly Gordon >>>> Mayo

What makes hs defense so good is he is under sized but strong and hassles his man. Yes ur proably right he wont win NBA all defense team honers but he is an elite defender at just 6"4

croz24
02-26-2011, 06:40 PM
as collegians, mayo was definitely the better defender. as pros, can't say i've watched enough of either's games to make that determination. gordon has stepped up his defense big time since being drafted but memphis hasn't been on tv enough for me to make that determination. again though, throughout high school and in college mayo was lock down and if he put his mind to it, could be a lock down defender in the nba as well.

pacer4ever
02-26-2011, 06:43 PM
as collegians, mayo was definitely the better defender. as pros, can't say i've watched enough of either's games to make that determination. gordon has stepped up his defense big time since being drafted but memphis hasn't been on tv enough for me to make that determination. again though, throughout high school and in college mayo was lock down and if he put his mind to it, could be a lock down defender in the nba as well.

Very true his only problem is effort the kid has tons of talent . But also at USC he was guarding pg's.

I have LP and only watch the Grizz a few games a year. But he doesnt always give full effort and with bigger guards give him trouble.

ballism
02-26-2011, 06:49 PM
Mayo's issue is that guys like Kevin Martin kill him in NBA - big guards who can really shoot. He is a very willing defender however, love that about him. But he will probably always have that issue with big guards. He can't grow longer arms, and his wingspan is pretty small-ish - 6'6 or so, not to mention he doesn't have much height either.

MillerTime
02-26-2011, 07:02 PM
I really hope we do go after Mayo in the summer.

Im curious to as to what NO had in the trade that was so crucial. I wonder is Rush + McRoberts would have landed us Mayo

xBulletproof
02-26-2011, 07:06 PM
Eric Gordon's defense is why he played for Team USA over the summer.

The idea that he doesn't play defense, or that in particular Mayo could be a better defender is strange to me.

PacersPride
02-26-2011, 07:16 PM
I really hope we do go after Mayo in the summer.

Im curious to as to what NO had in the trade that was so crucial. I wonder is Rush + McRoberts would have landed us Mayo

my take on it was the trade involved McRob,1st for Mayo. Then Rush/Solo for a first in return from NO's, and fillers (not landry, or west).

Below are comments from Hornets fans involving the deal..
http://www.hornetsreport.com/HRForum...831#post798831

my hope is the Bulls do not acquire Mayo. even if they do i still feel like the cap space and the free agent class of 2012 gives us a real chance at improving.

I would prefer Gordon over Mayo and hopefully we can target him if he becomes available.

ballism
02-26-2011, 07:28 PM
my take on it was the trade involved McRob,1st for Mayo. Then Rush/Solo for a first in return from NO's, and fillers (not landry, or west).

Below are comments from Hornets fans involving the deal..
http://www.hornetsreport.com/HRForum...831#post798831

my hope is the Bulls do not acquire Mayo. even if they do i still feel like the cap space and the free agent class of 2012 gives us a real chance at improving.

I would prefer Gordon over Mayo and hopefully we can target him if he becomes available.

That's how it was reported, but the math doesn't really work. Too much money our way. It only works if we don't get any fillers.
So yeah, it was probably Rush, McRob, Solo and 1st from us, and OJ Mayo and Hornets' 1st our way.

Jared Sullinger
02-26-2011, 07:32 PM
Eric Gordon's defense is why he played for Team USA over the summer.

The idea that he doesn't play defense, or that in particular Mayo could be a better defender is strange to me.

I'd be curious to see some defensive statistics for the two. I'd prefer to go by those rather than just reputation.

That's my biggest problem with discussing player's defense. Far too often it's nothing more than hearsay and group think. I mean, according to the people around here, Granger went from an alleged elite defender to a horrible defender in a matter of a year or so when reality is he's probably always been somewhere in the middle.

PacersPride
02-26-2011, 07:34 PM
That's how it was reported, but the math doesn't really work. Too much money our way. It only works if we don't get any fillers.
So yeah, it was probably Rush, McRob, Solo and 1st from us, and OJ Mayo and Hornets' 1st our way.

agreed. which is likely the reason Cuban was critical, it added salary to the Hornets and makes them a better team in the west.

wintermute
02-26-2011, 07:37 PM
That's how it was reported, but the math doesn't really work. Too much money our way. It only works if we don't get any fillers.
So yeah, it was probably Rush, McRob, Solo and 1st from us, and OJ Mayo and Hornets' 1st our way.

No, the math could work because we have our own trade exception, for about $3m+ coming from the Murphy trade. As long as the filler coming back from the Hornets doesn't exceed the exception amount, then the trade could work.

xBulletproof
02-26-2011, 07:43 PM
I'd be curious to see some defensive statistics for the two. I'd prefer to go by those rather than just reputation.

That's my biggest problem with discussing player's defense. Far too often it's nothing more than hearsay and group think. I mean, according to the people around here, Granger went from an alleged elite defender to a horrible defender in a matter of a year or so when reality is he's probably always been somewhere in the middle.

The stats pretty much tell the tale my eyes see. I watch a ton of basketball so if I'm giving my impression it's usually from watching guys. Even west coast teams.

These stats are for the guys that Eric and OJ guard. . Not their stats, but the guy that they're guarding. Also the point total is per 48 minutes.

Eric Gordon:

PG: 16.5 points, .243 eFG%
SG: 20.5 points, .488 eFG%
SF: 16.7 points, .267 eFG%

OJ Mayo:

PG: 23.8 points, .558 eFG%
SG: 26.4 points, .554 eFG%

Naptown_Seth
02-26-2011, 08:01 PM
They were sure about Lance too and he's had two incidents since being drafted. Let's look at Morway's statement:



Ok, he is saying they expend effort, time and money on due diligence. I certainly do agree with that. But he is NOT saying he is "sure that Mayo is not going to be a problem". They have basically done their homework and were apparently ready to take on the risk. Same exact thing happened with Lance and egg was quickly on the face.

Personally, I think their due diligence is insufficient. I suspect they do a good job justifying a trade because they are truly in love with talent not unlike what happened in the JO years.

Nothing has changed folks.
Mayo was a guy that in the prospect thread for his year I often defended. People claimed no defense and that was wrong, he was a very involved and active defender against a very good group of Pac 10 players too.

Mayo as an off-court guy I had no problem with his side of how things went at USC.


So I come into a Mayo discussion on the pro-Mayo side. I also can certainly part with just about any player on this roster, including Josh, IF IT'S A GOOD TRADE.

But jocking up on Mayo lacks a lot of recent background at this point:

First OFF COURT
We are barely a month removed from the fight on the team plane that started due to gambling on the team plane. How's that for diligence, how much can a person change in one freaking month there Morway?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-allengrizzlies010411

But I'm sure that was the final incident, right? No? Oh yeah, then Mayo got a 10 game suspension for a banned substance (Rush only got 5 games for his pot smoking)

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-01-27/nba-suspends-oj-mayo-10-games-for-positive-test

That's January 27th 2011. It's NOT EVEN ONE MONTH AGO. How freaking diligent can your checks be on a guy who just had 2 serious incidents since the new year??? HELL NO, NOT EVEN A MAYBE, and I'm Mr. Tolerant for off-court stuff normally. It's just clear that this kid has some attitude issues and that maybe the USC stuff was spot on in showing that he's also willing to bend some corners to get what he wants.





Then you have on court...

Per36, Rush vs Mayo
PPG 13.2 vs 15.5
RPG 4.5 vs 3.3
APG 1.3 vs 2.5
BLK 0.7 vs 0.5
STL 0.7 vs 1.3
FG% 43.8 vs 40.9
3P% 42.0 vs 35.1
FTA 2.3 vs 2.6
FT% 77.3 vs 74.7

In other words, you are absolutely, totally wrong if you think you see something more with Mayo than Rush. It's just not there. He does NOT get to the line a significant amount more, he does NOT shoot the ball better, and he does NOT defend better.

This is per 36, so Mayo isn't being penalized somehow for not playing enough. This isn't Mayo being super aggressive in short minutes while Rush plays disinterested on offense in large minutes.

They are nearly the same dude except Rush shoots the ball better and plays "bigger", ie rebounding and blocks where Mayo gets assists instead.




So here's what happens (and it p*****s me off if you can't tel by now), a bunch of yahoo PD fans salivate over this dream that Mayo changes everything. Then he gets here and clearly does the exact same thing Rush is already doing and by March all those same PD people are losing their s*** over the fact he didn't save the day.

Or they just start blaming someone else rather than admit that Memphis was willing to part with Mayo for a reason.


Even if you can make some case somehow that Mayo is a bit > than Rush, he's still not going to be enough of an upgrade to overcome the downgrade you get going from Josh to Solo.

Dumb, pointless move to chase Mayo. As a bargain guy if you needed Rush and didn't already have him, they I'm 100% leading that charge. But as another guy doing something we already have guys doing?? Dumb.

There are lots of good players on other teams that I like. I like Sam Young, but I wouldn't trade Josh to get him. I wouldn't trade Josh to get Buddinger. I would trade Josh to get TWill.


Mayo did NOT become the 3rd pick caliber player people dreamed of. He became a pretty solid all-around SG type that works well to fill that role. He's not Jordan, he's not Ray Allen even.



And did someone suggest the Hawks would trade Josh Smith for Danny Granger earlier in this thread?
GFL with that. Good lord people.



Look, if you use Rush to get West and Josh to get Mayo, effectively adjusting the balance of your team and the type of frontline you put out there, then I get it. Mayo becomes your tiny Rush upgrade and West becomes the post-scorer to compliment or replace Roy.

That's not the same as just chasing Mayo with Josh and keeping Rush (or worse, throwing Rush into the mix too).

Naptown_Seth
02-26-2011, 08:15 PM
We knew this by the time he decided to trade Josh.
What if Memphis didn't want Tyler? It cuts both ways when it comes to trade value.

DemonHunter1105
02-26-2011, 09:05 PM
I like EJ a lot but I always felt like OJ was the better defender. Haven't really watched him enough to say for sure, but was just my initial impression probably from their college days.

pacer4ever
02-26-2011, 09:13 PM
I like EJ a lot but I always felt like OJ was the better defender. Haven't really watched him enough to say for sure, but was just my initial impression probably from their college days.

Not in the NBA EJ is by far better.

croz24
02-26-2011, 09:53 PM
I like EJ a lot but I always felt like OJ was the better defender. Haven't really watched him enough to say for sure, but was just my initial impression probably from their college days.

yea oj was a very good - great defender in college and imo has all the potential to be a great defender in the league. only reasoning for it has got to be effort. meanwhile, ej at iu became a slacker on the defensive end, likely due to the coaching/team situation at the time, and he's become a very good defender in the league. put oj in a different environment and around a new organizational culture and he gets back to playing defense like he's out to prove something.

pacer4ever
02-26-2011, 09:56 PM
Whoever said OJ was a ball hog is dead wrong the guy is really unselfish and a good passer.

croz24
02-26-2011, 10:04 PM
Whoever said OJ was a ball hog is dead wrong the guy is really unselfish and a good passer.

yea i really don't think people understand the type of person mayo is. he is educated, humble, and unselfish (as a player). he's a kid who has had the spotlight on him since he was playing high school ball in the 8th grade. mayo was the "next" lebron. considering all that he's gone through, i find is disgusting that people who have never heard the man speak are questioning his character.

Jared Sullinger
02-26-2011, 10:27 PM
Mayo was a guy that in the prospect thread for his year I often defended. People claimed no defense and that was wrong, he was a very involved and active defender against a very good group of Pac 10 players too.

Mayo as an off-court guy I had no problem with his side of how things went at USC.


So I come into a Mayo discussion on the pro-Mayo side. I also can certainly part with just about any player on this roster, including Josh, IF IT'S A GOOD TRADE.

But jocking up on Mayo lacks a lot of recent background at this point:

First OFF COURT
We are barely a month removed from the fight on the team plane that started due to gambling on the team plane. How's that for diligence, how much can a person change in one freaking month there Morway?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-allengrizzlies010411

But I'm sure that was the final incident, right? No? Oh yeah, then Mayo got a 10 game suspension for a banned substance (Rush only got 5 games for his pot smoking)

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-01-27/nba-suspends-oj-mayo-10-games-for-positive-test

That's January 27th 2011. It's NOT EVEN ONE MONTH AGO. How freaking diligent can your checks be on a guy who just had 2 serious incidents since the new year??? HELL NO, NOT EVEN A MAYBE, and I'm Mr. Tolerant for off-court stuff normally. It's just clear that this kid has some attitude issues and that maybe the USC stuff was spot on in showing that he's also willing to bend some corners to get what he wants.





Then you have on court...

Per36, Rush vs Mayo
PPG 13.2 vs 15.5
RPG 4.5 vs 3.3
APG 1.3 vs 2.5
BLK 0.7 vs 0.5
STL 0.7 vs 1.3
FG% 43.8 vs 40.9
3P% 42.0 vs 35.1
FTA 2.3 vs 2.6
FT% 77.3 vs 74.7

In other words, you are absolutely, totally wrong if you think you see something more with Mayo than Rush. It's just not there. He does NOT get to the line a significant amount more, he does NOT shoot the ball better, and he does NOT defend better.

This is per 36, so Mayo isn't being penalized somehow for not playing enough. This isn't Mayo being super aggressive in short minutes while Rush plays disinterested on offense in large minutes.

They are nearly the same dude except Rush shoots the ball better and plays "bigger", ie rebounding and blocks where Mayo gets assists instead.




So here's what happens (and it p*****s me off if you can't tel by now), a bunch of yahoo PD fans salivate over this dream that Mayo changes everything. Then he gets here and clearly does the exact same thing Rush is already doing and by March all those same PD people are losing their s*** over the fact he didn't save the day.

Or they just start blaming someone else rather than admit that Memphis was willing to part with Mayo for a reason.


Even if you can make some case somehow that Mayo is a bit > than Rush, he's still not going to be enough of an upgrade to overcome the downgrade you get going from Josh to Solo.

Dumb, pointless move to chase Mayo. As a bargain guy if you needed Rush and didn't already have him, they I'm 100% leading that charge. But as another guy doing something we already have guys doing?? Dumb.

There are lots of good players on other teams that I like. I like Sam Young, but I wouldn't trade Josh to get him. I wouldn't trade Josh to get Buddinger. I would trade Josh to get TWill.


Mayo did NOT become the 3rd pick caliber player people dreamed of. He became a pretty solid all-around SG type that works well to fill that role. He's not Jordan, he's not Ray Allen even.



And did someone suggest the Hawks would trade Josh Smith for Danny Granger earlier in this thread?
GFL with that. Good lord people.



Look, if you use Rush to get West and Josh to get Mayo, effectively adjusting the balance of your team and the type of frontline you put out there, then I get it. Mayo becomes your tiny Rush upgrade and West becomes the post-scorer to compliment or replace Roy.

That's not the same as just chasing Mayo with Josh and keeping Rush (or worse, throwing Rush into the mix too).

You're (conveniently) comparing Rush's best season vs. by far Mayo's worst season, a season which has been full of turmoil and is clearly not a good indicator of his full talents.

For a more fair look at the two, here are their career per-36 numbers, as well as some advance stats:

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3978/47545585.gif (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=rushbr01&y1=2011&p2=mayooj01&y2=2011)

Mayo's been far more productive performer than Rush and is probably even a slightly superior offensive rebounder, which I found quite surprising. He also gets to the line twice as often, although still not a lot at three attempts per-36. They're both good-to-great three point shooters but notice how much better Mayo is at the line, not to mention his superior FG%. There's also Mayo averaging twice the assists.

It's really a no-contest. Mayo is a legitimate starting shooting guard, Rush is not. Larry Bird knows this and will hopefully finish his business come the offseason.

Naptown_Seth
02-27-2011, 10:37 AM
I'm "conveniently" comparing where the two players currently are. Rush is growing, Mayo is regressing. Hey, let's get rid of the guy on the way up to get our hands on the guy on the way down.

I mean that's a heckava point you are making and shouting out loud - MAYO HAS GOTTEN WORSE AND THIS IS RUSH'S BEST SEASON. It does make me want to swap for Mayo a lot more.


And you are conveniently not mentioning the first half of my response which is all his trouble just last month. I'm sure his apparent steroids use is in no way connected to performance issues either.

pacer4ever
02-27-2011, 10:58 AM
I'm "conveniently" comparing where the two players currently are. Rush is growing, Mayo is regressing. Hey, let's get rid of the guy on the way up to get our hands on the guy on the way down.

I mean that's a heckava point you are making and shouting out loud - MAYO HAS GOTTEN WORSE AND THIS IS RUSH'S BEST SEASON. It does make me want to swap for Mayo a lot more.


And you are conveniently not mentioning the first half of my response which is all his trouble just last month. I'm sure his apparent steroids use is in no way connected to performance issues either.

:bs:

You are looking at stats and not the scenerio each are in. Put OJ in Indy he puts put 18 ppg

ballism
02-27-2011, 11:04 AM
There's a million posts about the two Mayo incidents here over the last two days. Jared didn't mention them, because, well, there's no point to do it again. After the post no. 1000 000, mentioning them again just doesn't add much. Same goes for Morway; how naive is it to just assume Morway didn't check on those incidents?

pacer4ever
02-27-2011, 11:06 AM
There's a million posts about the two Mayo incidents here over the last two days. Jared didn't mention them, because, well, there's no point to do it again. After the post no. 1000 000, mentioning them again just doesn't add much. Same goes for Morway; how naive is it to just assume Morway didn't check on those incidents?

He did his quotes from JMV pretty much say they check out anyone beefore trading or acquiring them.

Tom White
02-27-2011, 11:16 AM
strikes me that mayo was a target of opportunity instead of a guy [like landry] that the pacers have been looking at for a while.

This makes sense to me given that Bird said he had been working on the deal for three days.

ONLY THREE DAYS. Doesn't sound like a long courtship to me.

ballism
02-27-2011, 11:16 AM
He did his quotes from JMV pretty much say they check out anyone beefore trading or acquiring them.

I know, I was referring to this:


How freaking diligent can your checks be on a guy who just had 2 serious incidents since the new year???

Jared Sullinger
02-27-2011, 11:40 AM
I'm "conveniently" comparing where the two players currently are. Rush is growing, Mayo is regressing. Hey, let's get rid of the guy on the way up to get our hands on the guy on the way down.

I mean that's a heckava point you are making and shouting out loud - MAYO HAS GOTTEN WORSE AND THIS IS RUSH'S BEST SEASON. It does make me want to swap for Mayo a lot more.


And you are conveniently not mentioning the first half of my response which is all his trouble just last month. I'm sure his apparent steroids use is in no way connected to performance issues either.

You're acting like Mayo's drop in production is the result of a drop in talent or something which has spelled doom for his career, which simply is not the case. Mayo's had a turmoil-filled season. No one's ever denied that, and in fact, I recall someone mentioning it not too long ago. Because of that, and because of his subsequent demotion, he's put up inferior production than years past. That says nothing of his talents nor the type of production he's capable of putting up. He's already proven he can be a 19/4/3 player and he did so as a rookie 18-months removed from high school.

If we're willing to take a chance on a completely unproven talent with Stephenson's track record, it'd be silly not to take one on a potential franchise SG like Mayo, who would be another great project for Clark Kellogg to work with.

As for Brandon Rush, we've likely seen the best of what he has to offer. He's plateaued as a 12/5 guy with embarrassingly low assists and who doesn't get to the line. He's basically a poor-man's Raja Bell, and given that Raja was never anything more than a well below average starting SG, I don't see much hope for Rush beyond being a serviceable backup. Perhaps you see more, but I don't, and more importantly, it doesn't seem like our front office does, either.

BringJackBack
02-27-2011, 12:02 PM
You're acting like Mayo's drop in production is the result of a drop in talent or something which has spelled doom for his career, which simply is not the case. Mayo's had a turmoil-filled season. No one's ever denied that, and in fact, I recall someone mentioning it not too long ago. Because of that, and because of his subsequent demotion, he's put up inferior production than years past. That says nothing of his talents nor the type of production he's capable of putting up. He's already proven he can be a 19/4/3 player and he did so as a rookie 18-months removed from high school.

If we're willing to take a chance on a completely unproven talent with Stephenson's track record, it'd be silly not to take on a potential franchise SG like Mayo. Mayo would be another great project for Clark Kellogg to work with.

As for Brandon Rush, we've likely seen the best of what he has to offer. He's plateaued as a 12/5 guy with embarrassingly low assists and who doesn't get to the line. He's basically a poor-man's Raja Bell, and given that Raja was never anything more than a well below average starting SG, I don't see much hope for Rush beyond being a serviceable backup. Perhaps you see more, but I don't, and more importantly, it doesn't seem like our front office does, either.

:highfive: :applaud:

Great, great post.

Gamble1
02-27-2011, 08:59 PM
Then you have on court...

Per36, Rush vs Mayo
PPG 13.2 vs 15.5
RPG 4.5 vs 3.3
APG 1.3 vs 2.5
BLK 0.7 vs 0.5
STL 0.7 vs 1.3
FG% 43.8 vs 40.9
3P% 42.0 vs 35.1
FTA 2.3 vs 2.6
FT% 77.3 vs 74.7

In other words, you are absolutely, totally wrong if you think you see something more with Mayo than Rush. It's just not there. He does NOT get to the line a significant amount more, he does NOT shoot the ball better, and he does NOT defend better.

They are nearly the same dude except Rush shoots the ball better and plays "bigger", ie rebounding and blocks where Mayo gets assists instead.


So here's what happens (and it p*****s me off if you can't tel by now), a bunch of yahoo PD fans salivate over this dream that Mayo changes everything. Then he gets here and clearly does the exact same thing Rush is already doing and by March all those same PD people are losing their s*** over the fact he didn't save the day.

Of all people I expect you to look at the full body of work of a player. You certainly go to great lengths to make your points but come on Seth. Even if it was Rush for Mayo you still wouldn't do that deal? I know your answer would be no but to act like Mayo is regressing is silly.

You were one of the first people to point out Josh's potential but even if you look at his per 36 he hasn't changed much. He plays a little better defense but the dude has been what he is for awhile and the same goes for Rush. IF you want to argue age and potential with Josh then why not argue that for Mayo?

MY point in all this is simple. We trade to get better and what Rush brings to the table is not enough to be a starter. He no longer carriers the potential tag like Mayo. NOw if you want a defensive specialist then I offer you Djones. OR if you want to hold on to Josh because you think it means the 8h seed then I understand that but thats just a couple of months for Josh and say bye bye to him in FA.

THe bottom line is this, you are arguing with Bird not us. Bird thought Mayo was worth Rush and McRoberts. Bird drafted Rush and Bird resigned McRoberts. And Bird still thinks a couple of months of McBob sandwich and a underperforming Rush was worth a one OJ Majo, issues and all.

PacerPride33
02-27-2011, 10:24 PM
Even days after the trade deadline I am still disappointed this trade didn't go down. Really hope LB goes after OJ this summer. Adds a ton of talent to the team and at a great price