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View Full Version : Hayward returns tonight



Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 03:59 PM
the player most Pacer fans wanted us to draft returns tonight. He was snatched up by Utah right before it was our turn to draft. we were so close to getting him. we got a nice consolation in Paul George, but it will be intersting to see how well Gordon plays tonight against us.

Day-V
02-25-2011, 04:00 PM
we got a nice consolation in Paul George, but it will be intersting to see how well Gordon plays tonight against us.

Consolation? Hell, we hit the jackpot.

Trader Joe
02-25-2011, 04:01 PM
Thank God for whoever is currently running the Utah Jazz into the ground.

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 04:02 PM
Consolation? Hell, we hit the jackpot.

this is still debateable.

Diamond Dave
02-25-2011, 04:03 PM
the player most Pacer fans wanted us to draft returns tonight. He was snatched up by Utah right before it was our turn to draft. we were so close to getting him. we got a nice consolation in Paul George, but it will be intersting to see how well Gordon plays tonight against us.

So is this.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 04:03 PM
..It won't be.

I Love P
02-25-2011, 04:04 PM
Consolation? Hell, we hit the jackpot.

Love it...

If Utah would have taken, say, Xavier Henry would Bird have drafted Hayward or George? I think it would have been a toss up. I'm glad we have George and if both were available today I would take George's upside over Hayward any day. In ten years from now, I believe, George will have had the better career.

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 04:05 PM
So is this.

so is what? i don't understand. Hayward was a trendy choice before draft day. that is a fact.

xBulletproof
02-25-2011, 04:06 PM
that is a fact.

Or not.

QuickRelease
02-25-2011, 04:09 PM
so is what? i don't understand. Hayward was a trendy choice before draft day. that is a fact.The assumption being that Bird would have taken Hayward over George if he were there. Hard to say who was rated higher by the Pacers scout team.

BillS
02-25-2011, 04:10 PM
Don't know that I'd say "most". "Many", yes. "Those fans who are fans of both Butler and the Pacers" most definitely.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 04:11 PM
FWIW, Wells did say that TPTB weren't going to take Gordon even if he were available.

PacerPenguins
02-25-2011, 04:12 PM
i hope PG goes off so the Jazz Organization feels dumb

Trader Joe
02-25-2011, 04:12 PM
If anything, I'd say "most" Pacer fans didn't want Hayward. And anyway calling it a "fact" is just completely wrong and horrible misuse of the word unless you have some hard evidence that makes it a "fact" and not an opinion.

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 04:13 PM
so is what? i don't understand. Hayward was a trendy choice before draft day. that is a fact.

No it isn't. It is myth that most in here wanted Hayward.

I don't follow college ball, but I admit I watched Butlers final 3 games in the tournament and I did not want hayward, I figured several players taken after number 9 in the draft would turn out to be better players and I am just thankful we got one of them.

There were probably a half dozen threads last June about Hayward, should be easy to find them

PacerDude
02-25-2011, 04:15 PM
Don't know that I'd say "most". "Many", yes. "Those fans who are fans of both Butler and the Pacers" most definitely.
They're the same people that wanted Alford instead of that Miller guy.

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 04:19 PM
If anything, I'd say "most" Pacer fans didn't want Hayward. And anyway calling it a "fact" is just completely wrong and horrible misuse of the word unless you have some hard evidence that makes it a "fact" and not an opinion.

maybe it wasn't a fact, but there was tons of interest among locals here that wanted Gordon to be drafted by the Pacers. right now Gordon and George are about equal players at this stage in their careers. too early to call who will be the better pro.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 04:20 PM
They aren't equal. Hayward is a decent spot up shooter who can't play defense and George is a guy who can create for himself and others, plays defense, rebounds extremely well, and has loads of more potential than Hayward.

I think you are trying to be pessimistic for the hell of it, but I digress.

Trader Joe
02-25-2011, 04:21 PM
He must have had everyone else but graphic-er on ignore.

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 04:22 PM
No it isn't. It is myth that most in here wanted Hayward.

I don't follow college ball, but I admit I watched Butlers final 3 games in the tournament and I did not want hayward, I figured several players taken after number 9 in the draft would turn out to be better players and I am just thankful we got one of them.

There were probably a half dozen threads last June about Hayward, should be easy to find them

its a myth that George is better right now than Hayward. They are about even.

Trader Joe
02-25-2011, 04:23 PM
Even if for a second we entertain the thought that Paul and Gordon are equal offensively, have you seen them play defense?

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 04:23 PM
george is about the 15th best rookie, and maybe Hayward is the 20th. Utah really messed up the pick.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 04:24 PM
bhaas, what are you basing this on? Seriously I want to know.

Utah has a worse wing rotation than us, so don't even try depth.

You're being pessimistic because you want to be with no proof, or you are some Gordon Hayward fanboii.

JBones19
02-25-2011, 04:24 PM
I'd hate to be an a-hole, but doesn't it seem that the better the team does the more pointless some of these thread topics become?

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 04:24 PM
maybe it wasn't a fact, but there was tons of interest among locals here that wanted Gordon to be drafted by the Pacers. right now Gordon and George are about equal players at this stage in their careers. too early to call who will be the better pro.

OK, either you are overestimating Hayward or underestimating George. Many think in 2 or 3 season george will be the Pacers best player and that is if Granger is still on the team. is that what you disagree with or do you think Hayward very well could be the Jazz best player in a few years.

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 04:24 PM
Even if for a second we entertain the thought that Paul and Gordon are equal offensively, have you seen them play defense?

yes, I saw McGrady school Paul George.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 04:25 PM
I saw Brandon Rush airball a three once before too. He's just a terrible shooter. I saw Troy Murphy block a dunk before, he must be a good defender.

Trader Joe
02-25-2011, 04:26 PM
I saw Brandon Rush airball a three once before too. He's just a terrible shooter.

Oh Lord :laugh:Still comment/discussion of the year.

Dr. Awesome
02-25-2011, 04:26 PM
I'm fairly certain about 95% of the people who wanted Hayward were Butler fans...

Trader Joe
02-25-2011, 04:27 PM
Also, statistically it's not even close Paul is better than Gordon in every major category. Why is this? Gordon can't get minutes on that stacked Utah team?

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 04:31 PM
Utah's wing rotation is significantly worse than ours too.

Granger/George/Rush/Dahntay > Bell, Miles, AK, Hayward

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 04:34 PM
Thanks God for the Utah Jazz, I was getting ready to lose it if they had drafted him.

Heisenberg
02-25-2011, 04:41 PM
I saw Brandon Rush airball a three once before too. He's just a terrible shooter. I saw Troy Murphy block a dunk before, he must be a good defender.
Wait, Trey Murph blocked a dunk once?!

Mackey_Rose
02-25-2011, 04:41 PM
Of my friends that I would consider casual Pacers fans I talked to about the draft, and I talked to many, only 1 said they wanted Hayward.

And he was a Butler grad.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 04:42 PM
Wait, Trey Murph blocked a dunk once?!

Believe me I was shocked too. It was someone on the Wizards two years ago, I think.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 04:46 PM
I've seen Hayward playing this year and I am sorry but I don't see anything that tells me that the guy is going to be in the NBA for long.

Roaming Gnome
02-25-2011, 05:04 PM
I've seen Hayward playing this year and I am sorry but I don't see anything that tells me that the guy is going to be in the NBA for long.

...just like Steve Alford!

PaceBalls
02-25-2011, 05:12 PM
george is about the 15th best rookie, and maybe Hayward is the 20th. Utah really messed up the pick.

Who are these 15 other rookies who are better than PG??

Isaac
02-25-2011, 05:54 PM
I thought it was obvious that Heyward wasn't even a first round pick. Late 20s maybe. I didn't get the hype at all and I saw him quite a bit in college.

Also I think there was one guy here in the summer who was tooting the horn of Heyward, posting a lot and had him as his profile image, but the main feeling in this forum was just nervousness that we might take him.

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 06:07 PM
Who are these 15 other rookies who are better than PG??

im not counting blake griffin, because he was picked in 2009

1 john wall
2.greg monroe
3. demarcus cousins
4. eric bledsoe
5. landry Fields
6. patrick patterson
7. wes johnson
8. james anderson
9. gary neal
10. ed davis

i guess that paul maybe number 11 in the draft class.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 06:09 PM
im not counting blake griffin, because he was picked in 2009

1 john wall
2.greg monroe
3. demarcus cousins
4. eric bledsoe
5. landry Fields
6. patrick patterson
7. wes johnson
8. james anderson
9. gary neal
10. ed davis

i guess that paul maybe number 11 in the draft class.


James Anderson? Patterson? Neal? Davis? I think you forgot Gordon Hayward.

:wtf2:

daschysta
02-25-2011, 06:10 PM
Paul has been better than all of those sans cousins, wall, monroe, and fields.

one or two more are arguable.

Do you only look at raw stats and pay no attention to production relative to minutes?

I know it isn't the gospel but NBA's rookie ladder has had him in the top 5 or 6 for weeks now.

Your opinion is simply not back up by statistics or the opinion of any sizable majority, even among those not on this board.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 06:18 PM
Give Paul George 30 MPG on the Knicks and he's much better than Landry Fields. Ditto for Wes Johnson. The guys bhaas has mentioned outside of Wall, Cousins, and Monroe are flat out less talented for George.

bhaas is trying to be a badass, cute, or whatever and he's being pessimistic because he wants to be. He doesn't know, however, how ignorant he looks in the process.

Heisenberg
02-25-2011, 06:19 PM
James Anderson hasn't played over 5 minutes in a game since mid-November. The only time he's broken double digit scoring was the 10 he scored against us in 27 minutes on opening day. He's played in 10 games all season.

This guy's trolling.

xBulletproof
02-25-2011, 06:21 PM
No "flippin the birdie" smilies on PD

It was a good one, though!

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 06:28 PM
I think you need to remove that picture, it could be offensive to some people.

CableKC
02-25-2011, 06:33 PM
There is only 1 person on PD that we know of that would care that Hayward is playing tonight......the rest of us on PD are content in watching PG play his 24+ mpg tonight against the Jazz.

Merz
02-25-2011, 06:34 PM
I think you need to remove that picture, it could be offensive to some people.

Yeah, I can't stand Fred Durst.

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 07:01 PM
sorry, to offend everybody here, but the truth simply is that George is only a mediocre rookie right now. you could argue that each of the 10 players i listed is better than George. If we were Raptors fans, we would think that Ed Davis is way better than PG. If we were Rockets fans, we would think that Patterson is the steal of the draft. As Pacer fans, we are way too biased on how good Paul George is. sorry, I am the only one with the balls around here to admit it. I am a fan of Paul, and I will support him. But all these claims that he is some future superstar is irrational based on what he has done this year. Looks exactly like Bender. There I said it.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 07:31 PM
Oh get that **** out of here. Paul George is top 5 in rookie ratings and he gets less than 20 MPG. You just want to be the first to say that he's not good.

And the only one to say it because it's the dumbest comment ever.

Brad8888
02-25-2011, 07:33 PM
Looks exactly like Bender.

I hope you are right, only I hope he has cartilage in his knees and continues to progress in the mental aspects of the game more than Bender did.

If George ends up with those things, he will be the All Star calliber talent that many think he will be.

Hayward looks like a more athletic version of Steve Alford, with a lower quality shot and less basketball IQ. Utah saved the Pacers a huge PR mess because I doubt they would have ever considered him, and casual fans would have been up in arms about the team not taking the hometown hero.

QuickRelease
02-25-2011, 07:35 PM
Nice ovation for Hayward.

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 07:45 PM
Gordon just posterized Paul. embarrassing for George.

Jared Sullinger
02-25-2011, 07:49 PM
Gordon just posterized Paul. embarrassing for George.

It was only embarrassing because Gordon is so mediocre.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 07:54 PM
Gordon just posterized Paul. embarrassing for George.

It will be really ****ing embarrasing five years from now when Paul George is a perennial All-Star and your boyfriend can't get off the bench. GTFO you troll.

Sandman21
02-25-2011, 07:55 PM
Utah saved the Pacers a huge PR mess because I doubt they would have ever considered him, and casual fans would have been up in arms about the team not taking the hometown hero.
Bah, the last time they passed up the hometown hero for a locally unknown player turned out okay.....:D

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 08:06 PM
It will be really ****ing embarrasing five years from now when Paul George is a perennial All-Star and your boyfriend can't get off the bench. GTFO you troll.

why are you taking this tone? do you have a feeling that i may be right? no need to get all po'd both Hayward and Paul can ball.

paul george as a perennial all-star is completely irrational.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 08:11 PM
Give me five (5) reasons why Paul George and Gordon Hayward are the same talent wise. Only 5.

I'm not the one being irrational. You're just being ridiculous and ignorant.

xBulletproof
02-25-2011, 08:13 PM
I see the angle. You think being less positive than everyone else gives you room to say you're just being a realist.

It's just too bad you're wrong. Unless you think the NBA Rookie Ladder, and his other compliments are being said by Pacers fans too.

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 08:20 PM
Give me five (5) reasons why Paul George and Gordon Hayward are the same talent wise. Only 5.

I'm not the one being irrational. You're just being ridiculous and ignorant.

1. ball handling is about equal
2. Gordon has a higher basketball IQ
3. Gordon is a better passer
4. Paul can shoot 3 pointers better
5. Defense is about equal

these guys right now are pretty close skill wise.

idioteque
02-25-2011, 08:20 PM
Gordon Alford hype is almost as lame as the Indy fans cheering him. Look, I rooted for him hard to beat the Puke Bluedevils, but he's wearing the enemy's colors now. Since he doesn't play for the Pacers, it wouldn't bother me at all if he busts completely and is out of the league in five years.

Alford's absolute ceiling, his CEILING is Mike Dunleavy or any of the other run of the mill players who can execute when the offense is centered around them but can't play defense and are mediocre when it comes to shot creation. George's ceiling is Tracy McGrady. Long story short, I like where we're at.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 08:22 PM
1. ball handling is about equal
2. Gordon has a higher basketball IQ
3. Gordon is a better passer
4. Paul can shoot 3 pointers better
5. Defense is about equal

these guys right now are pretty close skill wise.

Paul George has better handles. He actually dribbles and splits PnRs.

Paul George is the better passer. He averages more assists per36.

Paul George can not shoot three pointers better.

Paul George is a better defender.

Pacergeek
02-25-2011, 08:28 PM
Paul George has better handles. He actually dribbles and splits PnRs.

Paul George is the better passer. He averages more assists per36.

Paul George can not shoot three pointers better.

Paul George is a better defender.

maybe. but it is closer than you think. just watching both guys tonight, they both have similar games.

Psyren
02-25-2011, 09:22 PM
I'm sorry, I just don't see the hype of Hayward.

He looks like a guy I can find anywhere n the draft. Not like a top 10 pick.

Merz
02-25-2011, 09:27 PM
sorry, I am the only one with the balls around here to admit it. I am a fan of Paul, and I will support him. But all these claims that he is some future superstar is irrational based on what he has done this year. Looks exactly like Bender. There I said it.

Too bad for you, those balls are where your brain is supposed to be.

Day-V
02-25-2011, 10:44 PM
1. ball handling is about equal
2. Gordon has a higher basketball IQ
3. Gordon is a better passer
4. Paul can shoot 3 pointers better
5. Defense is about equal

these guys right now are pretty close skill wise.

The hell they are.

pacer4ever
02-25-2011, 10:45 PM
The hell they are.

Hayward is worse at everything except spot up shooting. The guy plays 0 defense

imawhat
02-26-2011, 12:11 AM
I wish people in Indiana cared as much about the Pacers as they do their high school basketball, as was evidenced tonight. We'd be a super raucous crowd.

Hoop
02-26-2011, 12:39 AM
george is about the 15th best rookie, and maybe Hayward is the 20th.

Maybe you should read this page, pretty good break down of this seasons rookies. PG currently ranks 5th, Hayward, not even discussed.

http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/


I was at the Pacers draft party, the majority of the people cheered when Utah took Hayward before us, they were VERY happy the Pacers didn't even have to think about it.

Basketball Fan
02-26-2011, 10:29 AM
Gordon just posterized Paul. embarrassing for George.


Especially when its SC's top play of the night!

I think PG is the better player but I don't fault Gordon for going to the NBA early either his stock was at an all time high after last year.

If he had made that shot and won Butler the Title he would've been drafted even higher.

PacersHomer
02-26-2011, 12:32 PM
It was awesome having Gordon back in Indy. Great ovation for him. I'm looking forward to seeing him back here again next year.

TinManJoshua
02-26-2011, 02:04 PM
Hayward is Dunleavy 2.0. Is that an unrealistic comparison?

vnzla81
02-26-2011, 02:13 PM
Hayward is Dunleavy 2.0. Is that an unrealistic comparison?

No, I'm not a Dunleavy fan and I would say that Hayward is not even close to his level, Hayward is going to be lucky to be in the NBA after his rookie contract expire.

OrganizedConfusion
02-26-2011, 04:13 PM
Gordon just posterized Paul. embarrassing for George.

Nope, he got a step on George and "threw down" a weak dunk while falling away from the basket. Not sure what was so humiliating about that.

PR07
02-26-2011, 05:22 PM
Kudos to George for challenging Hayward on that. A lot of the guys would've just given up the two points and ducked out of the way.

I don't know why you can't be a George fan and like Hayward too. I'm happy with George, and long-term, I see him as a better player than Hayward. However, I still think Hayward will be a good player in this league.

As a whole last night, I felt like both guys struggled though. George couldn't seem to hit a basket, and Hayward turned the ball over a few times.

Pacergeek
02-26-2011, 10:57 PM
No, I'm not a Dunleavy fan and I would say that Hayward is not even close to his level, Hayward is going to be lucky to be in the NBA after his rookie contract expire.

that is just an ignorant comment. Hayward gets minutes on a talented Jazz team. If he was that terrible, he wouldn't get off the bench.

Heisenberg
02-27-2011, 03:26 AM
I wish people in Indiana cared as much about the Pacers as they do their high school basketball, as was evidenced tonight. We'd be a super raucous crowd.
It's not even that simple. If Butler fizzles out in the Sweet 16 last year does he have a quarter as much support? I very much doubt it. It's all about the bandwagon.

vnzla81
02-27-2011, 09:24 AM
that is just an ignorant comment. Hayward gets minutes on a talented Jazz team. If he was that terrible, he wouldn't get off the bench.

You are making my point, he gets minutes and only average 3ppg? I smell bust on this one.

PR07
02-27-2011, 06:46 PM
There definitely is a higher bust factor for Hayward than Dunleavy coming out. Dunleavy will never live up to his draft billing, but I never doubted that he'd at least be a solid rotational player with his skill-set.

Hayward isn't as fundamentally sound as MDJ coming out his sophomore year as opposed to Dunleavy's junior year, but I think he's a much better athlete. It also helps I think that he was a guard and had that growth spurt, because I still think he hasn't learned to maximize and fully utilize his size and length. I don't know, time will tell, but I don't really understand some of the venom for Hayward on these boards. I will cheer him for him like I do for most Indiana guys, as long as it's not against the Pacers.