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Kegboy
02-25-2011, 10:32 AM
Sorry for yet another thread on the subject, but it's the only way to post a poll.

Now that most everyone's had the chance to sleep on it, how do you feel about the trade falling apart? Just looking for the pulse of the entire board, not just the PFFL'ers.

ballism
02-25-2011, 10:36 AM
Same as yesterday - low price great value deal for us. Not angry with the team though, not their fault that NOH bailed out.

BRushWithDeath
02-25-2011, 10:43 AM
It is certainly better for this season that the deal fell through. In the long run, probably not because they won't try to re-sign Josh this summer. But I'm ready for the playoffs. It has been too long. There is good and bad to it both ways. But I'm more glad than disappointed because I don't want to mortgage this season like I was ready to do with the last 3. If we were going to the playoffs because of Murphy, Dunleavy, Ford, Foster, etc. I would feel different. But we're going to the playoffs because of DC, AJ, Granger, George, Rush, Josh, Tyler, and Roy. I don't want to give up on that.

Brad8888
02-25-2011, 11:05 AM
Best thing that didn't happen to the Pacers for a long time. The Pacers were saved from themselves regardless of the reason that the trade didn't happen.

Mayo has issues with dabbling in performance enhancing drugs (got it in an energy drink? right), altercations with teammates, etc. and is a scoring wing which the Pacers have an abundance of to start with.

McRoberts, on the other hand, represents the franchise well, is popular with many fans (not all, but many) and is an integral part of what the team does offensively while providing defense and some rebounding at times. His presence in the rotation makes the Pacers a little more challenging to figure out how to defend due to his passing ability and athleticism.

As I stated yesterday in the main thread about this, I thank the basketball gods that this trade didn't happen!

PacerPenguins
02-25-2011, 11:09 AM
ok im HAPPY! just go on youtube and look up josh mcrobert dunks.......makes u feel a lot better, hes a difference maker and i hope he doesnt hang this over his head and we resign him this summer.

JB24
02-25-2011, 11:15 AM
It is certainly better for this season that the deal fell through. In the long run, probably not because they won't try to re-sign Josh this summer. But I'm ready for the playoffs. It has been too long. There is good and bad to it both ways. But I'm more glad than disappointed because I don't want to mortgage this season like I was ready to do with the last 3. If we were going to the playoffs because of Murphy, Dunleavy, Ford, Foster, etc. I would feel different. But we're going to the playoffs because of DC, AJ, Granger, George, Rush, Josh, Tyler, and Roy. I don't want to give up on that.

I still don't see why we couldn't have made the playoffs if the trade was made. Who exactly is challenging us for that 8th spot? Stephen Jackson, DJ Augustin and trash? Or the Milwaukee Zombies?

Jared Sullinger
02-25-2011, 11:16 AM
Hugely disappointed. I like McBob, but Mayo has not just shown flashes, but shown full seasons, of being an excellent shooting guard. He and Paul George could've been the future of our wings; our small-market generic version of Wade & LeBron; the Sam's Choice Cola to their Coca-Cola.

The only thing that could erase this painful experience anytime soon is if Lance Stephenson is giving playing time and shows Paul George-like flashes of brilliance.

PacerPenguins
02-25-2011, 11:19 AM
I still don't see why we couldn't have made the playoffs if the trade was made. Who exactly is challenging us for that 8th spot? Stephen Jackson, DJ Augustin and trash? Or the Milwaukee Zombies?

if posey is the back up 4 it will be hard

BRushWithDeath
02-25-2011, 11:20 AM
I still don't see why we couldn't have made the playoffs if the trade was made. Who exactly is challenging us for that 8th spot? Stephen Jackson, DJ Augustin and trash? Or the Milwaukee Zombies?

It's certainly possible they would have gotten into the playoffs if the trade had gone through. But it wouldn't be nearly as close to the lock it seems to be without it. And they wouldn't be nearly as competitive once they got in.

Sparhawk
02-25-2011, 11:24 AM
I'm glad you had a "meh", cause I really didn't care one way or the other.

I was disappointed that we couldn't make a single trade though.

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 11:29 AM
Nothing will ever be as bad as the trade deadline 2004

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=899


I just went back and read this whole thread. amazing how the names and dates have changed, but the same things keep happening and the same topics are discussed

Strummer
02-25-2011, 11:32 AM
I voted Meh. I would need to know who was coming from New Orleans to form an opinion. I'm a Brandon Rush fan and want to see him get more time under Vogel. He's been coached to stand at the 3 point line the past few years. I think we still haven't seen his best play. I'm a patient man, more patient than most.

Gamble1
02-25-2011, 11:52 AM
There are 2 big reasons why I am pissed that this didn't go down.

First off for all the McBob fans out there we now know that his market value may be pretty high. I cringe at retaining a guy like McBob for 5-6 million. I am not a player loyalist just because he does his job. Don't get me wrong I like him but this trade would have made me feel better if we couldn't have resigned him in the off season.

The second reason is simple. We need more talent and I cringe at the fact that we may get into a bidding war for FA's this off season. This was a minor way to avoid that possiblity but now we are going to overspend IMO and that really pisses me off.

I have supported Bird a lot and even defended his 3 to how many year plan. This IMO is such a glaring flaw that I wouldn't mind a front office change now. Bring on Kevin Pritchard.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 12:07 PM
I am angry, Larry told us to deal with the likes of Murphy,Dunleavy and Ford because of the "3 years master plan" so we could have the flexibility to make trades happen and nothing happened, is time for another GM to be in charge.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 12:10 PM
...Except for Darren Collison for Troy Murphy and we still have the summer to make moves when teams are over the tax.

LA_Confidential
02-25-2011, 12:19 PM
Im disappointed. Ive waited so long in front of my computer for something to happen. A low risk/high reward player like OJ Mayo was something I could brag to my friends about. I actually DID brag to my friends about it, only to hear that It fell through. Talk about a :buttkick:

Califan
02-25-2011, 12:23 PM
First Time poster here, love the forum, love the team. I'm a little disappointed in larry but NOH pulled out of the deal, i atleast give larry alittle credit for trying to make something happen but to be honest i dont like oj mayo at all.

Gamble1
02-25-2011, 12:24 PM
...Except for Darren Collison for Troy Murphy and we still have the summer to make moves when teams are over the tax.
At this point I almost don't trust Bird. IMO he might be too conservative and to chicken to pull off a big deal. Like adding 2 first round picks to a package for a really good starter ie Gerald Wallace. I am not saying we should have matched that deal but deals like that take coconuts and we have nothing to believe that Bird is able to make a deal like that.

A guy like Millsap is going to take a lot to pry away from Utah and I would totally throw 2 first round picks in to the equation if that meant landing him. I just don't think Bird is willing to do that deal.

Hicks
02-25-2011, 12:31 PM
At this point I almost don't trust Bird. IMO he might be too conservative and to chicken to pull off a big deal.

This does not compute. You're literally less than 24 hours away from proof that he IS willing to take chances (he wanted that trade to happen). Clearly he's NOT too conservative or chicken little. At worst he's just a little slow. :D But it doesn't appear to be the case; seems like it was NOH and/or MEM that killed this deal. Regardless, Bird clearly wanted to do it.

xIndyFan
02-25-2011, 12:35 PM
i voted meh. i do not think NOH was going to send us anything worthwhile. mayo is ok. he has some talent, but is just a combo guard that is more an undersized SG than a PG. he would make a nice 3rd wing with danny and paul, but nothing more than that. rush will do fine in his absence.

the pacers will have plenty of chances to get a 3rd wing to add to the core going forward. mayo would be nice, but he is not that big a deal. :shrug:

Speed
02-25-2011, 12:37 PM
Next year, you have this

Point Guards : DC, AJ, Lance

Wings : Granger, PG, BRush, D Jones (Lance)

Frontline: Roy, Hansbrough, wait for it Posey.

So, basically unless you get David West to come here, overpay him. Free Agency is a bust, to me. Well maybe thats dramatic, but West is really option #1.

Whats #2? Zach Randolph?

I mean, I'm talking strictly Free Agents.

Even then, you have to fill out your roster with at least 3 other players with 2 of them being Frontline guys. 1 being a legit back up Center type.

All I'm saying is you really need to think about how far this money has to go and what it has to buy.

Gamble1
02-25-2011, 12:40 PM
This does not compute. You're literally less than 24 hours away from proof that he IS willing to take chances (he wanted that trade to happen). Clearly he's NOT too conservative or chicken little. At worst he's just a little slow. :D But it doesn't appear to be the case; seems like it was NOH and/or MEM that killed this deal. Regardless, Bird clearly wanted to do it.
Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough. I think he is perfectly able to pull off a Mayo trade. I question if he can pony up a big package deal for a guy like Millsap, West, AI or Jefferson.

Do we have any record of him being able to pull off a deal like that or even come close to pulling off a deal like that?

IMO those types of trades we are going to have to give up multiple picks and assets to obtain a player like that. The more time goes by and we don't land a player like that the more I question Birds ability to get a "big" deal done.

PaceBalls
02-25-2011, 12:43 PM
Nothing will ever be as bad as the trade deadline 2004

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=899


I just went back and read this whole thread. amazing how the names and dates have changed, but the same things keep happening and the same topics are discussed

I just wanna know who was that imposter that was posting under my name who thought Al was better than Sheed? And I was certain the Pistons weren't going to do anything that year.. when they won the championship! What was I thinking? :crazy:

Ahh the passages of time, how they make our younger selves look so foolish. :laugh:

Speed
02-25-2011, 12:47 PM
I think all picks moving forward are intact and in play. That is a good piece to have. I think he can and will do it.

The next huge opportunity is the draft. It could be a buffet of players available from teams scared to death of carrying salary. I think there will only be a handful of buyers, too. Complete speculation and as much as I liked the Mayo deal.

There really will be a shopping opportunity in 4 months. The difference is, you won't be able to get talent AND keep cap space, like you would have yesterday.

I still can't believe how many people were against the Mayo move. I get the gun shy fan base, but I think you can have 1 or 2 boneheads surrounded by good guys and it works. C'est la vie, I guess.

BillS
02-25-2011, 12:52 PM
At this point I almost don't trust Bird. IMO he might be too conservative and to chicken to pull off a big deal. Like adding 2 first round picks to a package for a really good starter ie Gerald Wallace. I am not saying we should have matched that deal but deals like that take coconuts and we have nothing to believe that Bird is able to make a deal like that.

A guy like Millsap is going to take a lot to pry away from Utah and I would totally throw 2 first round picks in to the equation if that meant landing him. I just don't think Bird is willing to do that deal.

First off, you can't trade first round picks in consecutive years. You can only trade a first rounder you've acquired from another team. We don't have one to trade.

The last time we traded a pick away we got raked over the coals for not being able to get a first round player in that draft.

And I think Bird has shown himself much less conservative than Donnie Walsh but still concerned that we get something great rather than just trade to be able to point at random motion as improvement.

Alabama-Redneck
02-25-2011, 12:53 PM
I also voted meh but Mayo scares me, so I guess I'm happy. There's something about Mayo that bothers me.

Is he going to be another "Artest,Jackson,Tinsley,Harrison". He has a reputation.

Why is this mega-talent coming off the bench in his 3rd year after putting big numbers in his first two years.

Something does not add up.

What ever !! Makes little difference now.

:cool:

Hicks
02-25-2011, 12:54 PM
Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough. I think he is perfectly able to pull off a Mayo trade. I question if he can pony up a big package deal for a guy like Millsap, West, AI or Jefferson.

Do we have any record of him being able to pull off a deal like that or even come close to pulling off a deal like that?

IMO those types of trades we are going to have to give up multiple picks and assets to obtain a player like that. The more time goes buy and we don't land a player like that the more I question Birds ability to get a "big" deal done.

Do we have record? No, but then again when would he have done this before? Up until recently we've had terrible contracts that no one wanted. So short of trading Danny Granger, I'm not sure what you would have expected.

BillS
02-25-2011, 01:07 PM
Do we have record? No, but then again when would he have done this before? Up until recently we've had terrible contracts that no one wanted. So short of trading Danny Granger, I'm not sure what you would have expected.

Our 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 1st and 2nd round picks for John Wall. :zip:

Gamble1
02-25-2011, 01:35 PM
First off, you can't trade first round picks in consecutive years. You can only trade a first rounder you've acquired from another team. We don't have one to trade.

The last time we traded a pick away we got raked over the coals for not being able to get a first round player in that draft.

And I think Bird has shown himself much less conservative than Donnie Walsh but still concerned that we get something great rather than just trade to be able to point at random motion as improvement.
Notice I didn't say consecutive but you implied it. Also the main point is that we are heading into a foreseeable bottleneck situation and what I mean by that is simple.

The NBA has X amount of FA's and X amount of teams with cap space to spend it. Combine that with our needs at PF or sg and how limited they will be and that is the just a fine way of painting yourself into a corner. A really big 3 freaking year corner.


IS that the only way to obtain talent or the best way? NO, a lot of posters spent countless hours telling this forum that expirings were great and we could package them in deals for players. Well we have a lot and we didn't get nothing for them this year.

We screwed up and now we are going to have even less options to improve this team. This is why I am mad at Bird.

BillS
02-25-2011, 01:37 PM
The NBA has X amount of FA's and X amount of teams with cap space to spend it. Combine that with our needs at PF or sg and how limited they will be and that is the just a fine way of painting yourself into a corner. A really big 3 freaking year corner.

You seem to be forgetting that you don't just have to spend cap space on an FA, you can use it to make a salary-lopsided trade with a team over the cap or LT threshold. That is HUGE going into the new CBA.

RWB
02-25-2011, 01:42 PM
I kind of like the idea Mr. Simon can concentrate on players and such instead of the financial bleeding for a year. Wasn't that long ago the whispers of a move was in the air.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 01:48 PM
Notice I didn't say consecutive but you implied it. Also the main point is that we are heading into a foreseeable bottleneck situation and what I mean by that is simple.

The NBA has X amount of FA's and X amount of teams with cap space to spend it. Combine that with our needs at PF or sg and how limited they will be and that is the just a fine way of painting yourself into a corner. A really big 3 freaking year corner.


IS that the only way to obtain talent or the best way? NO, a lot of posters spent countless hours telling this forum that expirings were great and we could package them in deals for players. Well we have a lot and we didn't get nothing for them this year.

We screwed up and now we are going to have even less options to improve this team. This is why I am mad at Bird.

This is exactly how I feel, thanks.

Since86
02-25-2011, 01:52 PM
I am angry, Larry told us to deal with the likes of Murphy,Dunleavy and Ford because of the "3 years master plan" so we could have the flexibility to make trades happen and nothing happened, is time for another GM to be in charge.

Um....no he didn't say he was just looking to make trades. You've engineered that thought.

The goal of the 3 year plan wasn't to only make trades, although he said he would if it was available, but to just get help in general.

It would really be dumb for him to set his goals on one option, when he could, and did, say he'd use both.



You guys are overreacting to this. There's a reason why Mayo is coming off the bench, and he's only averaging 12pts per game.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 01:53 PM
You seem to be forgetting that you don't just have to spend cap space on an FA, you can use it to make a salary-lopsided trade with a team over the cap or LT threshold. That is HUGE going into the new CBA.

Do you have an example in how a team under the cap made a deal like this to put them over the top? a team in an small market? Minny made a deal for Beasley last year and they still suck, Memphis does this all the time and they are just OK. I am sorry but I don't see us getting more than role players for been under the cap and I hope I'm wrong.

oxxo
02-25-2011, 01:55 PM
You seem to be forgetting that you don't just have to spend cap space on an FA, you can use it to make a salary-lopsided trade with a team over the cap or LT threshold. That is HUGE going into the new CBA.

Exactly. We're now in the position to do deals like the Bulls/Wizards Hinrich deal, or the Camby deal, or the myriad of deals the Thunder did. We can eat some bad contracts in exchange for talent/picks. I'd say that that's actually the better option over overspending on RFAs.

oxxo
02-25-2011, 01:56 PM
Do you have an example in how a team under the cap made a deal like this to put them over the top? a team in an small market? Minny made a deal for Beasley last year and they still suck, Memphis does this all the time and they are just OK. I am sorry but I don't see us getting more than role players for been under the cap and I hope I'm wrong.

Minnesota and Memphis are just terrible franchises. It has nothing to do with small market/big market. It has to do with bad ownership and bad management.

Gamble1
02-25-2011, 01:58 PM
You seem to be forgetting that you don't just have to spend cap space on an FA, you can use it to make a salary-lopsided trade with a team over the cap or LT threshold. That is HUGE going into the new CBA.
IF teams in the LT are going to be grand fathered in then NO it isn't. Many of the teams in the LT or close to it don't seem to care. How many teams made deals to cut cost during the trade deadline? Charlotte?

I highly doubt we are going to make a huge lopsided trade for a starting pf because some team needs to cut cost. Does any fan want this team operating millions of dollars under the cap so the salaries don't have to match in some distant future trade.

EDIT: How many teams will be in the LT this year and of those proposed teams which ones actually care about paying the LT?

beast23
02-25-2011, 02:00 PM
Nothing will ever be as bad as the trade deadline 2004

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=899


I just went back and read this whole thread. amazing how the names and dates have changed, but the same things keep happening and the same topics are discussed
Oh Gaaaaawwwwwd.... thanks a hell of a lot. The one trade that I've tried hard to forget ever since that day.

Didn't even have to look at thel link.,

The day that it happened, I had only one thought. There went our effing championship. And that proved to be the case.

Diamond Dave
02-25-2011, 02:02 PM
Best thing that didn't happen to the Pacers for a long time. The Pacers were saved from themselves regardless of the reason that the trade didn't happen.

Mayo has issues with dabbling in performance enhancing drugs (got it in an energy drink? right), altercations with teammates, etc. and is a scoring wing which the Pacers have an abundance of to start with.

McRoberts, on the other hand, represents the franchise well, is popular with many fans (not all, but many) and is an integral part of what the team does offensively while providing defense and some rebounding at times. His presence in the rotation makes the Pacers a little more challenging to figure out how to defend due to his passing ability and athleticism.

As I stated yesterday in the main thread about this, I thank the basketball gods that this trade didn't happen!

I thankyou a million times. I've never been so happy to hear a trade fall apart. Most of the time I'm very upset when they do, not this one. I could go on for quite some time as to why this is bad, but most have already covered it. All I must say is that everyone ready to walk into traffic cause of a player that Memphis was willing to dump for McRoberts have lost their damn minds.

I am much more interested in watching our present core develop. JMac has some unique gifts at the PF. Mayo is an underachieving primadonna who has been catered to since he was very young. Plus, I like players with some length. Not ones I will worry about if they can bigger stronger players. Mayo would just be in Paul George's way. List every good attribute of OJ Mayo and Paul has the same thing. But Paul has much more (height, length, defense, law-biding citizen).

Hicks
02-25-2011, 02:07 PM
Sorry, I'm not going to ignore his first two years in the league just because his 3rd one was subpar. I would have been nervous about his attitude and behavior, for sure, but I'm a general believer in his talent.

Speed
02-25-2011, 02:12 PM
I think every reference to JMac in regards to this failed trade should be typed as "2.5 months of JMac"

Maybe also Mayo should be "Mayo, still on his Rookie contract"

For example:

I'm surprised how many people didn't want to trade "2.5 months of JMac" and a middle first rounder for "Mayo still on his Rookie contract".

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 02:37 PM
Um....no he didn't say he was just looking to make trades. You've engineered that thought.

The goal of the 3 year plan wasn't to only make trades, although he said he would if it was available, but to just get help in general.

It would really be dumb for him to set his goals on one option, when he could, and did, say he'd use both.



You guys are overreacting to this. There's a reason why Mayo is coming off the bench, and he's only averaging 12pts per game.

Please find a post were I say that Larry told us that he was just looking to make trades and nothing else

I understand the thinking in keeping few of the expiring contracts to be under the cap, I never expected the Pacers to trade every single expirer, what I'm frustated about is that after waiting all this year and listening to him about how important was to have this expirers at the end of the trade deadline nothing happened.(I don't know why is so hard to understand)

Regarding Mayo, the guy averaged 18ppg as a rookie 2 years ago, all the Pacers were giving away for him was a 1st round pick and Josh, that to me was a good deal for the Pacers, it looks like Mcbob won be here next year and the pick won't be as valuable if we make it to the playoffs.

Diamond Dave
02-25-2011, 02:40 PM
Sorry, I'm not going to ignore his first two years in the league just because his 3rd one was subpar. I would have been nervous about his attitude and behavior, for sure, but I'm a general believer in his talent.

Well I guess I'm not a believer. I think he is a one-sided player who gets points by putting up a high volume. He is undersized. In fact, due to the growing size and strength of starting point guards in this league, he is pretty much just point guard size. Which, IMO, means he is a tweener.

I like our team chemistry. I like how we are becoming a front-court oriented team. IMO we already have our potentially high scoring self creating wing in Paul George. Isn't that what everyone is hoping OJ would be? He hasn't proven that he is this consistently. So its still just the potential that he is. IMO he has no more upside than Paul, in fact I think he has less due to size. Not worth thinning our front-court which has played very very well of late.

BRushWithDeath
02-25-2011, 02:42 PM
I think every reference to JMac in regards to this failed trade should be typed as "2.5 months of JMac"

Maybe also Mayo should be "Mayo, still on his Rookie contract"

For example:

I'm surprised how many people didn't want to trade "2.5 months of JMac" and a middle first rounder for "Mayo still on his Rookie contract".

When that 2.5 months could be the difference between a competitive playoff team and another late lottery team, I'm willing to take the chance that Mayo won't live up to his previous numbers

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 02:47 PM
I think every reference to JMac in regards to this failed trade should be typed as "2.5 months of JMac"

Maybe also Mayo should be "Mayo, still on his Rookie contract"

For example:

I'm surprised how many people didn't want to trade "2.5 months of JMac" and a middle first rounder for "Mayo still on his Rookie contract".

There are in denial, they think that Josh is coming back next year, what this fail trade is telling us is that the FO doesn't think they can sign Josh or that they don't think he is part of the future.

sportfireman
02-25-2011, 02:49 PM
Can you please add the choice?......" Ready to move on.."

Since86
02-25-2011, 02:56 PM
I am angry, Larry told us to deal with the likes of Murphy,Dunleavy and Ford because of the "3 years master plan" so we could have the flexibility to make trades happen and nothing happened, is time for another GM to be in charge.


Please find a post were I say that Larry told us that he was just looking to make trades and nothing else

I understand the thinking in keeping few of the expiring contracts to be under the cap, I never expected the Pacers to trade every single expirer, what I'm frustated about is that after waiting all this year and listening to him about how important was to have this expirers at the end of the trade deadline nothing happened.(I don't know why is so hard to understand)


Read your first post.

Because he didn't make a trade at the deadline, you think another GM should be brought in. That means, that you expected him to make a trade, before the deadline, because you think that's what Larry said he was going to do.

He said he was going to TRY to. There is a big difference. The goal of the 3year plan was to bring in more talent, either through a trade or through free agency, or both.

Both can still happen. There is no reason to start calling for his head, just because ONE freaking deal fell through.

No where did Larry say that he would make a deal. He never said it.


Regarding Mayo, the guy averaged 18ppg as a rookie 2 years ago, all the Pacers were giving away for him was a 1st round pick and Josh, that to me was a good deal for the Pacers, it looks like Mcbob won be here next year and the pick won't be as valuable if we make it to the playoffs.

Big whoop. A lot better players have fallen out of the league, or just fallen off their expectations, than OJ Mayo.

There's a reason why he hasn't done it this year.

Kegboy
02-25-2011, 02:58 PM
Can you please add the choice?......" Ready to move on.."

Admins, can you please add an "Earl" option to the poll.

:-p

Since86
02-25-2011, 02:59 PM
Well I guess I'm not a believer. I think he is a one-sided player who gets points by putting up a high volume. He is undersized. In fact, due to the growing size and strength of starting point guards in this league, he is pretty much just point guard size. Which, IMO, means he is a tweener.

I like our team chemistry. I like how we are becoming a front-court oriented team. IMO we already have our potentially high scoring self creating wing in Paul George. Isn't that what everyone is hoping OJ would be? He hasn't proven that he is this consistently. So its still just the potential that he is. IMO he has no more upside than Paul, in fact I think he has less due to size. Not worth thinning our front-court which has played very very well of late.

And the fact that Vogel has been pretty adamant about taking GOOD shots.

When I think of OJ Mayo, the phrase, GOOD SHOT SELECTION doesn't come to mind.

Really?
02-25-2011, 02:59 PM
Frustration turned into Content... would haver really liked the trades but now I still fill comfortable with the direction we are headed... I can't complain much... only thing that sucks is I doubt we will ever get a meaningful player in free agency anytime soon...

idioteque
02-25-2011, 03:02 PM
I was pretty torn up about this last night. Now, not so much.

I don't think Mayo is the answer by any stretch. He's probably not talented enough to be a starting wing (with George and Granger on the roster) and not worth the risk he entails to be our 6th man. I mean, I can sort of see gambling the reputation of the team if you're going to trade for a Carmelo-level player, but I definitely don't see it with a guy who is probably around the range of a Ben Gordon type talent.

If you read the comments on the Star, it's obvious that people who are just not starting to come back to the Pacers were scared to death of Mayo. Do you really want to risk everything we've re-built in terms of our ties with the city on a guy who is probably going to be our third wing? It's just not worth it.

I'm a huge fan of this team as constructed right now, and I'm excited for the rest of the season and yes, I'm excited for the playoffs. I also think there is a decent chance the Pacers will acquire a significant talent, much better than Mayo, when the new CBA is agreed to and teams have to shed salary.

Go Pacers.

Since86
02-25-2011, 03:06 PM
Mayo just doesn't solve anything. You ship out your best wing defender in Rush, your starting PF who is starting to make plays, in order to get a high volume SG, who is too short, and doesn't play a lick of defense.

PASS. PASS. PASS.

In reality, it's a lateral move for the SG position, and a downgrade at the PF position. That's a losing trade.

OJ Mayo doesn't solve any problems the Pacers have. He doesn't make them better.

Speed
02-25-2011, 03:09 PM
I'm okay with this whole thing now, too. Really the only reason why is Paul George.

Just hand him the keys to the starting shooting guard spot next season and not look back for the next 10 - 15 years.

Pretty good deal, if you think about it.

PacerPenguins
02-25-2011, 03:10 PM
OJ MAyo cant play D can he?

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 03:12 PM
Read your first post.

Because he didn't make a trade at the deadline, you think another GM should be brought in. That means, that you expected him to make a trade, before the deadline, because you think that's what Larry said he was going to do.

He said he was going to TRY to. There is a big difference. The goal of the 3year plan was to bring in more talent, either through a trade or through free agency, or both.

Both can still happen. There is no reason to start calling for his head, just because ONE freaking deal fell through.

No where did Larry say that he would make a deal. He never said it.
.

I think we should bring another GM because I don't trust Larry with 30+ mil in cap space no because he didn't make a trade, he tried and failed.

Really?
02-25-2011, 03:16 PM
OJ MAyo cant play D can he?

Say what... the man was the 3 time defensive player of the year in his elementary school... lol

xBulletproof
02-25-2011, 03:32 PM
I think we should bring another GM because I don't trust Larry with 30+ mil in cap space no because he didn't make a trade, he tried and failed.

I have this strange feeling that if you had a job you were doing, and it was dependent upon someone else helping you out, and they failed on their end and it made you look bad, you'd feel like the other guy should be fired, not you.

Just a hunch though.

yoadknux
02-25-2011, 03:34 PM
I have this strange feeling that if you had a job you were doing, and it was dependent upon someone else helping you out, and they failed on their end and it made you look bad, you'd feel like the other guy should be fired, not you.

Just a hunch though.
How is that acceptable?
If plan A fails, you need a plan B. plan C. plan D.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 03:36 PM
How is that acceptable?
If plan A fails, you need a plan B. plan C. plan D.

Exactly.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 03:40 PM
First it's Troy, then it's JOB, then it's Posey, then it's JOB and Posey, then it's Mike, then it's Bird.. I'm ignoring all of these Mayo threads from now on.

I think that Bird isn't too great at getting deadline deals done, but he isn't the one who screwed this trade up.

:twocents:

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 03:41 PM
I have this strange feeling that if you had a job you were doing, and it was dependent upon someone else helping you out, and they failed on their end and it made you look bad, you'd feel like the other guy should be fired, not you.

Just a hunch though.

My boss wouldn't care about what happened in the other side, I would get fired in the spot for no having other options.

Really?
02-25-2011, 03:46 PM
How is that acceptable?
If plan A fails, you need a plan B. plan C. plan D.

Maybe this was plan D... and if that was plan A and time runs out and you have no time to execute plan B then what... ummmmmm lol

xBulletproof
02-25-2011, 03:47 PM
You guys need to learn to teach Bird those Jedi mind tricks you must have to have so many options at fleecing other human beings.

spazzxb
02-25-2011, 03:50 PM
It is certainly better for this season that the deal fell through. In the long run, probably not because they won't try to re-sign Josh this summer. But I'm ready for the playoffs. It has been too long. There is good and bad to it both ways. But I'm more glad than disappointed because I don't want to mortgage this season like I was ready to do with the last 3. If we were going to the playoffs because of Murphy, Dunleavy, Ford, Foster, etc. I would feel different. But we're going to the playoffs because of DC, AJ, Granger, George, Rush, Josh, Tyler, and Roy. I don't want to give up on that.

So Foster doesn't make your list. It would be nice if Foster got half the respect around here that he gets from the national media.

Justin Tyme
02-25-2011, 03:51 PM
I cringe at retaining a guy like McBob for 5-6 million.


My guess so does Bird. This failed trade just may be the "writing on the wall" he's not planning on paying that much to re-sign McBob.

Justin Tyme
02-25-2011, 03:53 PM
we still have the summer to make moves when teams are over the tax.


How are they going to do that without a new CBA in effect and a lockout??

BRushWithDeath
02-25-2011, 03:53 PM
My guess so does Bird. This failed trade just may be the "writing on the wall" he's not planning on paying that much to re-sign McBob.

Nobody ever said he was. But somebody will.

Since86
02-25-2011, 03:54 PM
How is that acceptable?
If plan A fails, you need a plan B. plan C. plan D.

Plan B is the offseason, like everyone was told.

The job isn't complete. You're acting like the 30mil in cap space went up in smoke, along with this particular trade.

Really?
02-25-2011, 03:54 PM
So Foster doesn't make your list. It would be nice if Foster got half the respect around here that he gets from the national media.

Yeah I didn't think so at first but after watching a couple more games closely I think Foster is a key part in our team that we will definitely need for the rest of the year.

Trophy
02-25-2011, 03:58 PM
I'm disappointed we couldn't get Mayo and also embarrassed that the deal was announced and then said that it didn't go through and you rarely hear something like that.

I also didn't want to give up Josh so it's pretty bitter-sweet.

Really?
02-25-2011, 03:58 PM
Plan B is the offseason, like everyone was told.

The job isn't complete. You're acting like the 30mil in cap space went up in smoke, along with this particular trade.

Thing is they are saying that they don't trust Bird with 30 mill in making decisions.

I kind of trust bird but at the same time I doubt many good free agents will want to come here.

and seeing what we have gotten out of free agency in the past kind or makes me worry a bit..

yoadknux
02-25-2011, 03:58 PM
Plan B is the offseason, like everyone was told.

The job isn't complete. You're acting like the 30mil in cap space went up in smoke, along with this particular trade.
It's still here, yes, but I think the plan was getting a decent player by the deadline, and that failed, we missed our opportunity (and there won't be too many). I believe Larry knows Free Agency isn't too great for the Pacers, so I'm still looking forward to a deal before the draft. Problem is we won't have too many guys to send...

DrFife
02-25-2011, 04:14 PM
Upon reflection, I wish I could change my vote to "all of the above."

Angry? Yeah ... yeah, or at least I was.
Disappointed? Definitely.
Happy? Hmmm, in a weird way, sorta. I like our current squad.
Relieved? Sure - I dig JMac, think he's key (and Hans off the bench is key) to our playoff hunt, and even hope that we re-sign (and keep) him. (I'm migrating to wanting a 5-4 scorer-and-defender. I still think Kaman is the best "available" approximation.)
Meh? Uh-huh ... we still have to patient for what we truly want: a legitimate contender.

Gamble1
02-25-2011, 04:14 PM
Both can still happen. There is no reason to start calling for his head, just because ONE freaking deal fell through.

Both can still happen but the opportunities are less. Correct.

I believe Larry needs more time to build a good team but I am less confident about him for a couple of reason. First we don't know if he wants to be back. Second he has had a record of odd decisions the first is retaining a coach for too long along with adding players that don't fit the coaches style of play ie Djones.

Justin Tyme
02-25-2011, 04:16 PM
I think we should bring another GM because I don't trust Larry with 30+ mil in cap space no because he didn't make a trade, he tried and failed.


I wouldn't be opposed to a new PBO, but I'm not sure why you don't trust Bird will 30 mil in cap space. I didn't trust Bird with drafting the right player in last years draft, but he must have been reading my posts, and drafted who I wanted.... Paul George. ;) I kept cringing at the thought of Bird dropping the ball and drafting Gordon H. Bird saw the light and made the right choice. THANK YOU LARRY!

I don't see Bird blowing away 30 mil frivilously on players like Dumars has.

Since86
02-25-2011, 04:20 PM
Thing is they are saying that they don't trust Bird with 30 mill in making decisions.

I kind of trust bird but at the same time I doubt many good free agents will want to come here.

and seeing what we have gotten out of free agency in the past kind or makes me worry a bit..

I know what they're saying.

They're saying that because vnzla saying that Bird promised trades, when it isn't the case.

Really?
02-25-2011, 04:23 PM
I know what they're saying.

They're saying that because vnzla saying that Bird promised trades, when it isn't the case.

Not just promising trades but his decision making in general and his ability to get quality players here through trades or free agency of the draft for that matter.

Justin Tyme
02-25-2011, 04:27 PM
Nobody ever said he was. But somebody will.


I highly doubt any GM will at the current MLE salary, especially Bird.

Since86
02-25-2011, 04:27 PM
Not just promising trades but his decision making in general and his ability to get quality players here through trades or free agency of the draft for that matter.

Yeah, you're right. His decision making in the past has been horrible.

Paul George - What a dumb pick
Darren Collison and James Posey for Troy Murphy - OH THE MADNESS!!!
Signing DJones - WHAT IS HE DOING!?
Signing Solo - OH MY GOODNESS!!!
Tyler Hansborough - BUST!!!


Yeah, Larry's decision making has been horrid.

Really?
02-25-2011, 04:33 PM
Yeah, you're right. His decision making in the past has been horrible.

Paul George - What a dumb pick
Darren Collison and James Posey for Troy Murphy - OH THE MADNESS!!!
Signing DJones - WHAT IS HE DOING!?
Signing Solo - OH MY GOODNESS!!!
Tyler Hansborough - BUST!!!


Yeah, Larry's decision making has been horrid.

Thank you for listing all of his decisions ;)... just saying in general he has had some questionable decisions compared to what was out there... before this draft and grabbing PG people were calling for his head... but I guess we all have a short memory...

BillS
02-25-2011, 04:33 PM
Yeah, you're right. His decision making in the past has been horrible.

Paul George - What a dumb pick
Darren Collison and James Posey for Troy Murphy - OH THE MADNESS!!!
Signing DJones - WHAT IS HE DOING!?
Signing Solo - OH MY GOODNESS!!!
Tyler Hansborough - BUST!!!


Yeah, Larry's decision making has been horrid.

Keeping JOB - that's the one "awsh*t" that wipes out all the "attaboys", I suspect.

xBulletproof
02-25-2011, 04:35 PM
Both can still happen but the opportunities are less. Correct.

How exactly are the opportunities less? This is the part that makes no sense.

I Love P
02-25-2011, 04:42 PM
Yeah, you're right. His decision making in the past has been horrible.

Paul George - What a dumb pick
Darren Collison and James Posey for Troy Murphy - OH THE MADNESS!!!
Signing DJones - WHAT IS HE DOING!?
Signing Solo - OH MY GOODNESS!!!
Tyler Hansborough - BUST!!!


Yeah, Larry's decision making has been horrid.

Don't forget about trading Jarryd Bayless and Ike Diogu into Brandon Rush, Jarret Jack and Josh McRoberts. :laugh:

Don't forget about trading Jermaine O'Neal to Toronto for Rasho Nesterovic, TJ Ford and Roy Hibbert. :laugh:

beast23
02-25-2011, 04:52 PM
I have this strange feeling that if you had a job you were doing, and it was dependent upon someone else helping you out, and they failed on their end and it made you look bad, you'd feel like the other guy should be fired, not you.

Just a hunch though.Oh, come on now, bullet. In real life that never happens. Not.

Funny how that happens. I spent a whole career in I.T. and folks seem to forget that others have priorities, too. I suppose it all boils down to the same old saying I read in another post. "Poor planning on your part does not necessarily represent an emergency on mine."

It's just that in this case, it's possible nobody was guilty of poor planning. Apparently, there was just too much to do and not quite enough time to get everyone to agree to meet the deadline.

And, I'll bet that's never happened to all of us either, right?

Since86
02-25-2011, 05:11 PM
Thank you for listing all of his decisions ;)... just saying in general he has had some questionable decisions compared to what was out there... before this draft and grabbing PG people were calling for his head... but I guess we all have a short memory...

Please tell me what which decisions were "questionable."


Keeping JOB - that's the one "awsh*t" that wipes out all the "attaboys", I suspect.

I'll give you that one, as a "questionable" decision, but I would also like to point out that Larry also acquired talent that didn't jive with Jimmy's approach.

While I think Larry did hold on to JOb too long, way too long, he obviously was building for a JOb-less future.

Since86
02-25-2011, 05:14 PM
Don't forget about trading Jarryd Bayless and Ike Diogu into Brandon Rush, Jarret Jack and Josh McRoberts. :laugh:

Don't forget about trading Jermaine O'Neal to Toronto for Rasho Nesterovic, TJ Ford and Roy Hibbert. :laugh:

Thanks for reminding me.

The long and short of it is that Larry has put the Pacers in a VERY strong position in the present, and has a lot of room to improve them as well.

His overall decision making hasn't been "questionable," it's been pretty damn solid.

His one outlier is picking up Jim's extension, but like I already said, it's clear that Jim wasn't part of the future anyways. Eventhough it pissed me off to no end, he was brought back, I always held on to the light at the end of the tunnel that he was going to be out after this year.

I never once believed Jim would be brought back.

Justin Tyme
02-25-2011, 05:28 PM
Oh, come on now, bullet. In real life that never happens. Not.

"Poor planning on your part does not necessarily represent an emergency on mine."



Lol. I use to have that saying posted on my office wall along with

"ignorance can be corrected, but stupidity is forever."

Really?
02-25-2011, 05:46 PM
Please tell me what which decisions were "questionable."

Shawne williams, Rush, James white, Alexander Johnsoh? u wanted paul millsaps could have got him there. David Harrison, trading for jamal tensley, passing on jrue holiday, Lawson, Collison the first time around and then trying to trade for all of them..

And most of those are just draft picks, not mentioning anything about trades, and what we have picked up in free agency the past years...

I never said that bird is horrible, everyone will have good picks and bad picks but as far as free agency when is the last time we actually brought in someone worthwhile...?

xBulletproof
02-25-2011, 05:49 PM
Shawne williams, Rush, James white, Alexander Johnsoh? u wanted paul millsaps could have got him there. David Harrison, trading for jamal tensley, passing on jrue holiday, Lawson, Collison the first time around and then trying to trade for all of them..

And most of those are just draft picks, not mentioning anything about trades, and what we have picked up in free agency the past years...

I never said that bird is horrible, everyone will have good picks and bad picks but as far as free agency when is the last time we actually brought in someone worthwhile...?

Holy. What a mess of bad assumptions, unrealistic expectations and placing the blame on the guy who wasn't in charge.

There was never a hint that Milsap was available. Most of the guys you named as mistakes, were drafted when Donnie was here.

And lastly when did he bring in someone worthwhile in free agency? Here's a better question, given the dollar amount spent on those player, what free agents were signed at the same time who did better? Hard to sign worthwhile guys when you can only spend a couple million dollars.

Sheesh.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 05:52 PM
Shawne williams, Rush, James white, Alexander Johnsoh? u wanted paul millsaps could have got him there. David Harrison, trading for jamal tensley, passing on jrue holiday, Lawson, Collison the first time around and then trying to trade for all of them..

And most of those are just draft picks, not mentioning anything about trades, and what we have picked up in free agency the past years...

I never said that bird is horrible, everyone will have good picks and bad picks but as far as free agency when is the last time we actually brought in someone worthwhile...?

I am sorry man but this doesn't make any sence, who is Alexander Johnson? and the Pacers drafted Tinsley they didn't trade for him.

BillS
02-25-2011, 05:58 PM
I am sorry man but this doesn't make any sence, who is Alexander Johnson? and the Pacers drafted Tinsley they didn't trade for him.

Technically they did, it was a draft trade with Atlanta.

PaceBalls
02-25-2011, 06:06 PM
Morway is coming on JMV in a minute to explain what happened.

Gamble1
02-25-2011, 06:31 PM
How exactly are the opportunities less? This is the part that makes no sense.

Well what were the options this year?

1. FA's, NO
2. trades involving expirings picks and maybe one good player (probably not DG, PG, Hibbert)

Next year we will rely on option number one more than option number 2. The FA market more or less has been known to be weak and harder to get a quality starters from in the positions we need.

The most attractive piece we had this year that we won't have next year was our expirings. This opens up more possibilities than the FA market.

Bills already mentioned that we could do a lopsided trade from a team in the LT because salary don't have to match. The problem I see in that is that most teams will make you eat a long term contract to go along with anyone they want to send that is good. In additions there are only a handful of teams that are seriously in the LT and of those teams only a few care that much to actually trade an asset.

Again this was a 3 year plan that I was hoping would put us in an even better place than we are in now. We were hamstrung by bad contracts but when those contracts were actually somewhat valuable we didn't land a big one. To Birds credit Collison was a nice addition that used an expiring but I still feel that more could have been done.

idioteque
02-25-2011, 09:25 PM
I really think a lot of people here are complaining for the sake of going against the grain. Everyone rational is going to be laughing about this like they now are with the Bayless trade. Looking back it's absolutely hilarious how much we fleeced Portland.

Gamble1
02-25-2011, 10:39 PM
I really think a lot of people here are complaining for the sake of going against the grain. Everyone rational is going to be laughing about this like they now are with the Bayless trade. Looking back it's absolutely hilarious how much we fleeced Portland.
What are you talking about? We haven't fleeced anyone. We lose McBob at the end of the season and we don't like Rush. How is that for rational. The trade did absolutely nothing but help us win more games to worsen our draft stock. If you want to say we fleeced the Raptors.... Ok we got a good center in that deal but lets be real. Nothing has come of the Bayless trade.

Justin Tyme
02-26-2011, 07:58 PM
What a mess of bad assumptions, unrealistic expectations and placing the blame on the guy who wasn't in charge.

There was never a hint that Milsap was available. Most of the guys you named as mistakes, were drafted when Donnie was here.


It was a 2 headed monster with Bird doing the drafting.

I believe Really? is referring to not drafting Milsap in the 2nd round of the 06 draft when Bird drafted Alex Johnson 2 spots ahead of Milsap only to trade Johnson away with 2 2nds for the infamous James White. IIRC, Milsap had led the NCAA 2 years in a row in reb'g which showed last night with 18 reb.

grace
02-26-2011, 10:54 PM
Admins, can you please add an "Earl" option to the poll.

:-p

I think that should always be a choice on all polls.