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View Full Version : Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details



MyFavMartin
02-25-2011, 06:18 AM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110225/SPORTS15/102250327/Kravitz-Pacers-blow-chance-add-draft-lottery-talent-bargain-price?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports


Team blows opportunity to add draft-lottery talent at bargain price
Feb 25, 2011


I'm sorry, but somebody screwed up. Not sure if it was the Memphis Grizzlies. Not sure if it was the Indiana Pacers. Not sure if it was the New Orleans Hornets, who later got involved in the trade talks.

But somebody somewhere messed up two huge deals Thursday -- the proposed O.J. Mayo-for-Josh McRoberts-and-a-first-round-pick deal and a trade that would have sent Brandon Rush to the Hornets for a first rounder and some other pieces -- and now, the Pacers are left with . . .

Nothing.

Who's to blame?

Shortly after news of the aborted trades broke, Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley seemed to throw the Pacers front office under the bus, telling TNT's David Aldridge, "Indiana was not able to get it all together." That can be interpreted one of two ways, either "Indiana couldn't get its (bleep) together," or "Indiana was waiting on New Orleans to make this three-team deal work, and it didn't come together in time."

Whatever.

Sources told The Star, though, that the Pacers called the league at 3 p.m. to notify them of the three-team deal, and were on hold, waiting to get into the league's queue, when the deadline passed at 3:01 p.m. While the Pacers were waiting, New Orleans apparently backed out of the deal -- which wouldn't have been consummated anyway, since the league insisted it was 3:01.

He said, he said, he said.

Bottom line?

The Pacers got absolutely nothing done at this trade deadline, and they missed a fabulous opportunity to add a draft lottery-quality talent who is still young enough to get his head screwed on right.

No question, Mayo has some baggage. He was suspended in high school for an altercation with an official. He was charged with marijuana possession in high school. He got USC put on NCAA probation for accepting freebies.

After a remarkable rookie season in 2008-09 (18.5 points per game) and a solid second season (17.5 ppg), he has gone south in his third season, averaging 12.1 points in 28 minutes, primarily coming off the bench. This season has been a mess: He was late for a game-day shootaround and was pulled from the starting lineup. He got in a fight on a plane with a teammate. And he was suspended 10 games for taking a banned substance, DHEA, which he said he ingested from an over-the-counter energy drink he got at a gas station.

He's also only 23.

And he's got crazy talent.

When his mind is right, the third pick in the 2008 draft is that good. And he would have been worth the minimal risk. The Pacers wouldn't have been forced to give up very much -- just McRoberts, Rush and a first-round draft choice.

Mayo was making only $4.45 million this year and $5.6 million next year, with a team option the third year.

Small risk, huge upside.

These have been some very good weeks for the Pacers, who are playing well after the overdue firing of coach Jim O'Brien. But Thursday was a bad day, a frustrating, mystifying day.

They didn't get Mayo. They didn't get anybody.

Wasn't that all part of the grand plan, to use these expiring contracts at the trade deadline to make deals to acquire young talent?

The Pacers stood there with roughly $30 million in expiring deals -- Mike Dunleavy ($10.5 million); T.J. Ford ($8.5 million); Jeff Foster ($6.6 million); Solomon Jones ($1.5 million) and McRoberts ($885,120) -- and got nothing done. In a league where expiring contracts are incredibly valuable assets, especially at a time when the salary cap is going to be slashed, the Pacers failed to move any of those assets.

So the Pacers are now putting most of their eggs in the free-agent basket, and that's a chilling prospect.

Two issues:

First, this is not one of the better free-agent classes in recent history. I like Dallas' Tyson Chandler, the defensive-minded, shot-blocking power forward. I like David West of the New Orleans Hornets, a hard worker whose scoring average improved each of his first six years in the league. But it's not a long or terribly impressive list, and it's not like the Pacers are the only ones shopping.

Second, this is Indianapolis. We love the place, but honestly, are free agents clamoring for the chance to party in Broad Ripple?

Danny Granger was both honest and incredibly foolish with his comments the other day, telling Mike Wells of The Star, "I don't think (the talent migration to the big markets is) good for the league. It hurts a team like us tremendously if everybody can pick where they want to go. No chance for us at all."

Now, you'd really like the face of your franchise to do a little bit better sales job, but he's not completely wrong.

Cap flexibility is great, and the Pacers will have more than anybody this summer, but only if somebody is willing to take your cash.

The deal for Mayo could have been a game-changer, especially in a league where the power pendulum has moved to the Eastern Conference.

This is one that got away.

Pacersalltheway10
02-25-2011, 06:22 AM
This is painful.

MyFavMartin
02-25-2011, 06:26 AM
This is painful.

Doesn't seem like that once a trade is agreed on and you're on phone with the league that a team can back out... One would think that something on paper should be signed off on and once you've got that signature, there's no going back...

But again, whatever.

Seems like something we may revisit later.

Gremz
02-25-2011, 06:30 AM
I'm still bewildered here, as haven't they given extensions past the deadline in the past for deals that were essentially done? (Wasn't Ronnie Brewer's trade to Memphis similar?)

Something just doesn't seem right.

rexnom
02-25-2011, 06:31 AM
I don't want to read about this anymore.

littlerichard54
02-25-2011, 06:34 AM
I actually agree with Kravitz on this one. We had 30 million dollars in expiring contracts...a very valuable asset come trade time. I can understand wanting to hold on to a few to reduce your salary the coming year, however, we didn't do anything.

The most frustrating part is not that we didn't get Mayo. The frustrating part is that building through trades and the draft are our primary vehicles for adding talent. Free Agency is not going to net us the talent we are looking for (at least IMO). I think once a guy is here and realizes Indy is a great city, he is more likely to stay. However, getting them to sign here initially is the problem.

Point being......we have waited a long time to have the assets to add valuable pieces to this team. That time has now passed up by. We take the risk of not luring and FAs in the summer. We have also lost our most valuable trading assets.

I just don't quite understand how this deadline could pass and nothing could get done.

MyFavMartin
02-25-2011, 06:35 AM
Here you go Rex (if you've not seen this either):

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110225/SPORTS04/102250328/Time-runs-out-on-Pacers-deal?odyssey=tab%7Cmostpopular%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE


Time runs out on Pacers' deal for Grizzlies' Mayo
Feb 25, 2011
Mike Wells

What was supposed to be a three-team deal orchestrated by Indiana Pacers officials Thursday afternoon fell apart when the NBA trade deadline expired.

The Pacers were set to send forward Josh McRoberts and a first-round draft pick to Memphis for guard O.J. Mayo. The Pacers were also going to send guard Brandon Rush and forward Solomon Jones to New Orleans for a draft pick and two unnamed players.

The deal fell apart because the NBA did not receive the call until 3:01 p.m., a minute past the league's mandatory deadline.

Time passed as the teams attempted to finalize all of the components of the trade. The Hornets then decided not to take part.

Pacers president Larry Bird was frustrated after team officials had spent the day talking to five teams, trying unsuccessfully to get a third team involved in the deal only to come away with nothing.

The Pacers also talked to the Charlotte Bobcats about forward Gerald Wallace.

"I don't like it," Bird said. "Sometimes it's difficult because people wait until the last minute because they're waiting on other deals. It's just unfortunate that it didn't get done. A deal is never done until you sign the papers."


Memphis owner Michael Heisley told nba.com the Pacers were "not able to get it all together. I think from our point of view, we were interested in the trade going forward. It was a very, very difficult conversation for us."

Mayo was to have been the key component for the Pacers, even though he has had several off-court incidents. Mayo was suspended for 10 games last month after violating the league's substance abuse program. He also got into a fight with teammate Tony Allen over a card game on the team plane.

The Pacers were still willing to take a chance on him. Mayo is a gifted offensive player who also would have provided toughness.

"I'm trying to be as aggressive as I can, but I can't make a mistake," Bird said. "(Mayo) is not a mistake. I thought he would have been perfect for us."

The inability to pull off the trade means the Pacers will finish the season with their current roster, with the likely exception of point guard T.J. Ford. The Pacers plan to start negotiating a buyout with Ford to give him a chance to sign with a playoff-contending team before Tuesday's deadline.

"I think I'm going to get an opportunity very soon," Ford said. "I knew coming into the season my time here was going to be short, and I felt this move was most likely to happen."

Portland, Miami and New York are expected to have interest in Ford. He said he will agree to a buyout only if he knows a team will sign him and he will be able to make up the money he would lose in a buyout.

"If not, I'll be a Pacer the rest of the season," Ford said.

The Pacers have taken advantage of the soft portion of their schedule to go 9-3 under interim coach Frank Vogel.

"I like our guys, especially our core group," Bird said. "Some of the older guys are playing well, and they're rolling pretty well now."

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 06:37 AM
Wasn't that all part of the grand plan, to use these expiring contracts at the trade deadline to make deals to acquire young talent?


Here is what I've been saying all along, in the end of the "three years plan" Larry was supossed to have a clear picture of what he wanted to do, he was supossed to know who he wanted to go after with all that cap space and assets, WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FREAKING DAY FOR THREE YEAR AND NOTHING HAPPENED.

If Larry can't get a simple deal done before the trade deadline for about three years, how are we going to trust this guy with 30+ mil in cap space? could this be another Detroit Pistons free agent signing all over again?

indygeezer
02-25-2011, 06:43 AM
If I'm Mr Simon, I'm questioning LB's contract situation and his capabilities. Yeah, perhaps NO backed out screwing everything up, but why did it come domn to the last minute.


And I don't buy the "on hold" bit............total BS.

wintermute
02-25-2011, 06:55 AM
If Larry can't get a simple deal done before the trade deadline for about three years, how are we going to trust this guy with 30+ mil in cap space? could this be another Detroit Pistons free agent signing all over again?

See, I don't agree with the bolded part. I think our FO has a problem closing deals, and that may stem from Larry's insistence that we win deals, not just that we make deals. That's why the Pacers so often end up inactive in the trade market.

On the other hand, this kind of thinking also means we're unlikely to overpay in the free agent market. If we miss out on the guys we want, I'd think Larry will be willing to sit on our cap space waiting for a deal to materialize. And then fans will complain that Larry can't sign anyone. But I doubt very much we'll overpay for role players, which was Detroit's mistake.

I think we need a closer for trades, just as we do for games. But I'm not worried that we'll overpay the way Detroit did.

Foul on Smits
02-25-2011, 06:57 AM
I think people are incredibly overating OJ Mayo right now.

MyFavMartin
02-25-2011, 06:59 AM
If I'm Mr Simon, I'm questioning LB's contract situation and his capabilities. Yeah, perhaps NO backed out screwing everything up, but why did it come domn to the last minute.


And I don't buy the "on hold" bit............total BS.

Sounded like to me that Memphis took their time deciding on the first part of the trade:


“People are going to say I have reservations (about the proposed trade). I think from our point of view, we were interested in the trade going forward. It was a very, very difficult conversation for us. It took us a long time to decide. We were getting a lot of players at the two and three position and we were getting a little skinny at the four. We had three candidates we were looking at and when we decided on one, O.J. had to be part of that trade. It wasn’t that we were anxious to get rid of him.”

As for Bird and NO, I'm sure he had an earlier trade agreed on, called them back and then they got cold feet at the last second. It's too bad because I think NO could really use a good young defensive-oriented SG (BRush) alongside CP3 and that rookie contract has to appeal to a small market team.

MyFavMartin
02-25-2011, 07:01 AM
See, I don't agree with the bolded part. I think our FO has a problem closing deals, and that may stem from Larry's insistence that we win deals, not just that we make deals. That's why the Pacers so often end up inactive in the trade market.

On the other hand, this kind of thinking also means we're unlikely to overpay in the free agent market. If we miss out on the guys we want, I'd think Larry will be willing to sit on our cap space waiting for a deal to materialize. And then fans will complain that Larry can't sign anyone. But I doubt very much we'll overpay for role players, which was Detroit's mistake.

I think we need a closer for trades, just as we do for games. But I'm not worried that we'll overpay the way Detroit did.

I'm not sure it's Bird's fault that NO backed out at the last second.

McKeyFan
02-25-2011, 07:24 AM
The more Kravitz described Mayo's background, the less interested I became.

I'd be upset if it was Monta Ellis or Igoudala. Not this guy.

Josh McRoberts is no slouch either. Let's keep him and ask Paul George to step up large to the plate. And he plays great defense.

wintermute
02-25-2011, 07:41 AM
I'm not sure it's Bird's fault that NO backed out at the last second.

3 years in a row? Sometimes you have to wonder if it's always the other guy's fault.

Why exactly did N.O. back out? I guess we won't know the exact details, but we can make educated guesses. Maybe N.O., realizing they have leverage, decided to hold out for additional sweeteners. Unfair? Maybe, but we had to deal with it. Or as McKeyFan suggested in the other thread, maybe it was us asking for more from N.O. Either way, N.O. wasn't satisfied, else they wouldn't have pulled out. You don't discuss a deal nearly to the finish line and just change your mind for no reason.

Would giving up a little extra to N.O. help get the deal done? Ditto for the TJ Ford to Charlotte deal, and the Tinsley to Orlando deal. We probably won't ever know, but it's a noteworthy trend if you think making trades is an integral part of team building.

glazedham42
02-25-2011, 07:45 AM
OJ Mayo has a longer rap sheet than I realized. Would he have been a great physical talent to add to our team? Yeah, probably. But is he a behavior problem? It sure looks that way from what you read. Why else would everyone be talking about how he is a young player whose issues can still be "fixed" by Bird and the Pacers? I don't want someone that we have to "fix." I want someone that will work hard, and stay out of trouble.

Is that too much to ask?

Shade
02-25-2011, 07:50 AM
If we actually got screwed because the call was one minute late...

**** this league.

IndyPacer
02-25-2011, 07:51 AM
Kravitz would have been just as happy if the trade went through and he caused a major incident. He would have said that Bird should have known this was going to happen all along and that it was always obvious to him that this was a huge mistake. This article would have been followed up by thousands of dullards stating "Kravitz is right!" It's always the same.

Shade
02-25-2011, 07:53 AM
I think people are incredibly overating OJ Mayo right now.

I'm not a huge Mayo fan, but he would have been better than whatever pick we would have given them.

Josh is an UFA anyway, so we could have brought him back after the season.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 07:56 AM
I'm not a huge Mayo fan, but he would have been better than whatever pick we would have given them.

Josh is an UFA anyway, so we could have brought him back after the season.

This, we were sending a late 1st round pick for Mayo, either way to me the whole issue is not that they didn't get Mayo but that they didn't get anybody, the master plan didn't work.

QuickRelease
02-25-2011, 08:11 AM
This, we were sending a late 1st round pick for Mayo, either way to me the whole issue is not that they didn't get Mayo but that they didn't get anybody, the master plan didn't work.They didn't trade for anybody, but that doesn't mean they won't be able to use the cap space. If I'm not mistaken, having the cap space still makes for a positive trade position, because you can use that to take on more salary than you send out. It's not just about free agency. The new CBA muddies the water a bit, but I hardly think the sky is falling because OJ Mayo is still in Memphis. Disappointed a bit? Maybe. Disgusted a bit? Perhaps. Despairing? Nope.

ZepZach
02-25-2011, 08:13 AM
The real question is: why couldn't they get an extension!?!?!

MyFavMartin
02-25-2011, 08:18 AM
3 years in a row? Sometimes you have to wonder if it's always the other guy's fault.

Why exactly did N.O. back out? I guess we won't know the exact details, but we can make educated guesses. Maybe N.O., realizing they have leverage, decided to hold out for additional sweeteners. Unfair? Maybe, but we had to deal with it. Or as McKeyFan suggested in the other thread, maybe it was us asking for more from N.O. Either way, N.O. wasn't satisfied, else they wouldn't have pulled out. You don't discuss a deal nearly to the finish line and just change your mind for no reason.

Would giving up a little extra to N.O. help get the deal done? Ditto for the TJ Ford to Charlotte deal, and the Tinsley to Orlando deal. We probably won't ever know, but it's a noteworthy trend if you think making trades is an integral part of team building.

Now that I've thought about it, trading McBob would have created a shortage of PFs on the team and I'm fairly certain that the Rush/Solo trade to NO would have addressed it.... It's interesting to consider what salaries that NO has that would fit the trade possibilities (possibly consider our trade exception too). Again, it sounded like to me that NO backed out while we were on hold with the league. I'm not sure TPTB would lie to save face with the fans as anything that comes out proving they lied down the road would really erode confidence in TPTB and what they say.

As for history, Charlotte has screwed up a lot of trades with MJ getting cold feet half way through deals.... I'm not sure I recall what we had with Minny and what Kahn had a beef with...

The Collison/Murphy trade shows that Bird can make good trades... It sounds like what happened was beyond his control - NO got cold feet at the last second and there wasn't much time to get another third team involved (ie prefer not to send Rush to Chicago) or to renegotiate with NO (sweetening the deal).

Again, all this is spilled milk and we can all speculate on the details we don't know about or are uncertain about...

I won't be surprised if we revisit this trade in the off-season with Memphis and a potential S&T of McBob.

pwee31
02-25-2011, 08:23 AM
2 unnamed from the Hornets would have been a combo of a few choices. David Andersen, Jason Smith, DJ Mbenga, Aaron Gray and Quincy Poindexter.

2 of those and a pick

SMosley21
02-25-2011, 08:28 AM
This is something that I don't understand. If O.J. Mayo is worth the risk, why weren't any other teams attempting to trade for him. The kid has been made available by Memphis since basically the beginning of the season. If he is truly worth the risk, you would think that a team like Chicago, who greatly needed a SG to put next to Rose, would've gone after Mayo.

I'm perfectly fine with this trade not going through. We've got a game against the Jazz tonight. Moving on...

Sparhawk
02-25-2011, 08:30 AM
I wonder if there is a chance the Pacers will try for Mayo again before the draft.

I still think Mayo has good value and could be used to upgrade our PF.

A Mayo/Collison backcourt does not sound good long term.

QuickRelease
02-25-2011, 08:31 AM
This is something that I don't understand. If O.J. Mayo is worth the risk, why weren't any other teams attempting to trade for him. The kid has been made available by Memphis since basically the beginning of the season. If he is truly worth the risk, you would think that a team like Chicago, who greatly needed a SG to put next to Rose, would've gone after Mayo.

I'm perfectly fine with this trade not going through. We've got a game against the Jazz tonight. Moving on...
I like this team. I'm really hoping this doesn't hamper their play.

ZepZach
02-25-2011, 08:31 AM
I keep reading the boards hoping somehow this trade went through :(

QuickRelease
02-25-2011, 08:33 AM
I still think Mayo has good value and could be used to upgrade our PF.:confused:

Mackey_Rose
02-25-2011, 08:36 AM
This is something that I don't understand. If O.J. Mayo is worth the risk, why weren't any other teams attempting to trade for him. The kid has been made available by Memphis since basically the beginning of the season. If he is truly worth the risk, you would think that a team like Chicago, who greatly needed a SG to put next to Rose, would've gone after Mayo.

I'm perfectly fine with this trade not going through. We've got a game against the Jazz tonight. Moving on...

Chicago did go after him. Hard. They offered Ronnie Brewer, 2 1st round picks, and 1 2nd round pick.

MyFavMartin
02-25-2011, 08:37 AM
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/feb/25/hes-baack/


The Grizzlies tried to send O.J. Mayo to Indiana for a first-round pick and forward Josh McRoberts. That deal fell apart on the Indiana end of things. It was either hilarious or embarrassing, depending on your perspective. Heisley had already been quoted about the Mayo deal. 'I think it's probably best for the Grizzlies and best for O.J. that he'll get to play for a team where he can get a lot more minutes,' said Heisley. Whoopsie. But, then, they wouldn't be the Grizzlies if they didn't screw up somehow -- and this screw-up could work out for the best. Mayo may not be beloved by head coach Lionel Hollins, but he's worth a darn sight more than McRoberts and a draft pick. Heisley wouldn't even admit to being disappointed that the deal fell through. 'No, I'm not,' he said. 'To tell you the truth, we spent all day arguing about it.' "

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 08:39 AM
As someone who often is critical of Kravitz, I will say that was one of his better columns.

I will dispute the claim he makes here though.

In a league where expiring contracts are incredibly valuable assets, especially at a time when the salary cap is going to be slashed, the Pacers failed to move any of those assets.

From several to a dozen NBA insiders across the spectrum, they have all said that right now teams aren't looking for cap space, they aren't necessarily looking to get players on the last year of their deal. In previous years our expirings would have had more trade value

I think this trade was a no-brainer for the Pacers and I would like to know exactly where the mistake was made if there was one

Jared Sullinger
02-25-2011, 08:39 AM
If he is truly worth the risk, you would think that a team like Chicago, who greatly needed a SG to put next to Rose, would've gone after Mayo.

Chicago Bulls made strong effort to land O.J. Mayo at NBA trade deadline - ChicagoTribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-0225-trade-bulls-heat-chicago-20110224,0,1581666.story)

Jared Sullinger
02-25-2011, 08:40 AM
:confused:

I'd assume he means as future trade bait.

Jared Sullinger
02-25-2011, 08:43 AM
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/feb/25/hes-baack/

Honestly, I think we lost out on a deal that could've been another Collison-sized steal. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I need to go wash it away with a glass of o.j... Oh God... :puke:

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 08:50 AM
We won't know how significant all this is for a couple of years when we find out how good Mayo will become.

I know the pacers will likely have to give up more, but I still don't understand why the trade cannot be revisited this summer. if the Grizzlies really wanted Josh, then a sign and trade can be worked out and iof the Griz want an expiring contract for next year we can include Posey

Slick Pinkham
02-25-2011, 08:52 AM
I think people are incredibly overating OJ Mayo right now.

Perhaps true, but I think people are incredibly, amazingly, stupendously overating Josh McRoberts on here every day.

Rogco
02-25-2011, 08:54 AM
I'm still bewildered here, as haven't they given extensions past the deadline in the past for deals that were essentially done? (Wasn't Ronnie Brewer's trade to Memphis similar?)

Something just doesn't seem right.

Said this before, Stern hates the Pacers. That's what doesn't seem right! I can imagine Larry calling to register the trade, the NBA answering the phone, seeing it's a 317 area code, then saying, please hold............................3:01, trade deadline over, thank you for calling. Come again.

Mackey_Rose
02-25-2011, 08:58 AM
We won't know how significant all this is for a couple of years when we find out how good Mayo will become.

I know the pacers will likely have to give up more, but I still don't understand why the trade cannot be revisited this summer. if the Grizzlies really wanted Josh, then a sign and trade can be worked out and iof the Griz want an expiring contract for next year we can include Posey

If they want him why would they even bother approaching Indiana about a sign-and-trade? They could just sign him without giving up anything.

DrFife
02-25-2011, 08:59 AM
So Larry still loves (especially) our core and also thinks Mayo would have "perfect" for us....

Emotions aside, I'm confused about this. I'd like to invite analytical comments (with a little detail, please) on comparing the following two (future) starting lineups. Which do you favor and why?

Memphis
PG M Conley
SG X Henry
SF R Gay
PF Z Randolph
C M Gasol
6th OJ Mayo

Indiana
PG D Collison
SG P George
SF D Granger
PF (D West)
C R Hibbert
6th OJ Mayo

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 09:00 AM
If they want him why would they even bother approaching Indiana about a sign-and-trade? They could just sign him without giving up anything.

I;'m not sure what the Grizzlies salary situation is, but they might not have the cap space. Maybe the pacers can pay Josh more than the Griz can, so a sign and trade is possible.

Jared Sullinger
02-25-2011, 09:19 AM
If they want him why would they even bother approaching Indiana about a sign-and-trade? They could just sign him without giving up anything.

Assuming they resign Gasol for about $10M per, that'll put their cap at about $50M. That would give them up to around $8M to sign McBob, but they'd have to renounce Zach Randolph. If they resign Zach, they'd have the MLE to work with.

As for why they could prefer a S&T─it would save them cap space ($6-8M) or the MLE (depending on Randolph) to work with in free agency. They'd also likely be getting a 1st rounder from us. They may prefer the combination of those two things to Mayo.

binarysolo
02-25-2011, 09:21 AM
Being under the cap is a wonderful asset. You see teams dump valuable players / draft picks to help them manage their salary in the offseason.

Also, consider the CBA situation -- if the cap is lowered, we could see a bunch of teams desperately trying to shed salary. And we will be there with open arms, capable of acquiring a number of players with our cap space.

McKeyFan
02-25-2011, 09:22 AM
Perhaps true, but I think people are incredibly, amazingly, stupendously overating Josh McRoberts on here every day.
He's not Garnett.

Now, having established that, he does some pretty nice things on the court. And he's 23.

But my real issue is that we have something special going on in Indiana right now. We have a new coach, a winning streak, and a bunch of young guys all fired up and enthusiastic about reaching the playoffs and making some kind of mark.

This phenomenon that has emerged involves a number of things:

- Tyler's psycho physicality
- Dahntay's smashmouth aggression
- Foster's rediscovery of himself
- The apparent brink of the emergence of Paul George
- Hibbert's resurrection
- The coining of "Goon Squad"

- And, yes, it includes the power dunks of Josh McRoberts, highlight blocks once in a while, and his very unique ability to bring the ball down the court and make a sweet dime as a near 7 footer.

Josh is a key part to this new identity. Maybe we can't keep him this summer, but I sure as heck want to see what this high-minded enthusiastic crew can pull off for the rest of the season.

A past trouble-maker, current drug offender would have completely changed what has just emerged in Indiana.

bellisimo
02-25-2011, 09:24 AM
with our cap space - would we be able to just receive a player without giving anyone back via "trade"? or would you atleast need to have some draft picks/money considerations involved?

SMosley21
02-25-2011, 09:30 AM
Chicago did go after him. Hard. They offered Ronnie Brewer, 2 1st round picks, and 1 2nd round pick.

I find it hard to believe that Memphis would turn down...

Ronnie Brewer
2 1st round picks
1 2nd round pick

but agree to...

Josh McRoberts
1 1st round pick

Very hard to believe, and if it's actually true then Heisley is more of a moron than has been estimated before.

Evan_The_Dude
02-25-2011, 09:31 AM
He's not Garnett.

Now, having established that, he does some pretty nice things on the court. And he's 23.

But my real issue is that we have something special going on in Indiana right now. We have a new coach, a winning streak, and a bunch of young guys all fired up and enthusiastic about reaching the playoffs and making some kind of mark.

This phenomenon that has emerged involves a number of things:

- Tyler's psycho physicality
- Dahntay's smashmouth aggression
- Foster's rediscovery of himself
- The apparent brink of the emergence of Paul George
- Hibbert's resurrection
- The coining of "Goon Squad"

- And, yes, it includes the power dunks of Josh McRoberts, highlight blocks once in a while, and his very unique ability to bring the ball down the court and make a sweet dime as a near 7 footer.

Josh is a key part to this new identity. Maybe we can't keep him this summer, but I sure as heck want to see what this high-minded enthusiastic crew can pull off for the rest of the season.

A past trouble-maker, current drug offender would have completely changed what has just emerged in Indiana.


Good point. Time to get over this Mayo thing...

PR07
02-25-2011, 09:31 AM
The problem I have with it is that it seems like we had to have our cake and eat it too. We simply ran out of time, but I question if we should've just taken Mayo for McRoberts and the first round pick, and worried about filling the rest of the roster or the jam at the wing position later in an additional trade.

This move was about acquiring more talent big picture, and I don't necessarily know that if it would've made us a much better team THIS year. However, going forward, yeah I think it would've.

Also, does the NBA really just have a single phone line on the trade deadline day for trades? Does anyone else think that seems ridiculous?

grace
02-25-2011, 09:33 AM
If we actually got screwed because the call was one minute late...

**** this league.

Are you going to complain the next time the shot clock expires before the Pacers get a shot off? It's the same :censored: thing.

Gold
02-25-2011, 09:37 AM
I find it hard to believe that Memphis would turn down...

Ronnie Brewer
2 1st round picks
1 2nd round pick

but agree to...

Josh McRoberts
1 1st round pick

Very hard to believe, and if it's actually true then Heisley is more of a moron than has been estimated before.

They wanted another PF, not a guard.

Jared Sullinger
02-25-2011, 09:38 AM
So Larry still loves (especially) our core and also thinks Mayo would have "perfect" for us....

Emotions aside, I'm confused about this. I'd like to invite analytical comments (with a little detail, please) on comparing the following two (future) starting lineups. Which do you favor and why?

Memphis
PG M Conley
SG X Henry
SF R Gay
PF Z Randolph
C M Gasol
6th OJ Mayo

Indiana
PG D Collison
SG P George
SF D Granger
PF (D West)
C R Hibbert
6th OJ Mayo

I'd say center and small forward are a push, a slight advantage to us at point guard, a moderate advantage to Memphis at power forward and shooting guard is too early to tell, although it looks like it could be a huge advantage for us in due time, not just because of the hype around George but because Henry looks horrible.

Overall, it's hard to say. I'd probably go with us because (a) I can't stop being a homer and (b) I'm skeptical that Henry ever amounts to anything.

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 09:40 AM
OK, I realize yesterday was an extremely hectic day for Mike wells, but I think this is important to know.

There is a huge contradiction in this part of Wells article.


The deal fell apart because the NBA did not receive the call until 3:01 p.m., a minute past the league's mandatory deadline.

Time passed as the teams attempted to finalize all of the components of the trade. The Hornets then decided not to take part.

so what was it, did the deal fall apart because the call was late or did the deal fall apart because the Hornets decided not to take part - but then why was Bird calling the league if the deal fell apart???.

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 09:42 AM
Also, does the NBA really just have a single phone line on the trade deadline day for trades? Does anyone else think that seems ridiculous?

Yeah there is no way they have a single phone line. There must be a way to document when the call comes in. When did Bird or whoever actually make the call into the league. There are phone records that can document this

Jared Sullinger
02-25-2011, 09:43 AM
OK, I realize yesterday was an extremely hectic day for Mike wells, but I think this is important to know.

There is a huge contradiction in this part of Wells article.


so what was it, did the deal fall apart because the call was late or did the deal fall apart because the Hornets decided not to take party. it cannot be both, it must be one or the other

The latter seems far more believable to me. I can't believe the league would be so petty as to let a deal go undone due to it being one minute late, especially since they've (purportedly) given deadline extensions in the past.

Major Cold
02-25-2011, 09:45 AM
Expirings were crucial in getting cap space for last years free agency class. With Melo being traded, no big market teams need the cap space. They need talent shored up for when the new CBA is in effect.

This means we not only had expirings in the wrong year for a trade, but now we will have cap space in the worst free agency period since the free agency hit the market.

If teams are grandfathered into a new deal, then we are getting 60 cents on the dollar in our cap space.

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 09:46 AM
The latter seems far more believable to me. I can't believe the league would be so petty as to let a deal go undone due to it being one minute late, especially since they've (purportedly) given deadline extensions in the past.

But the pacers were calling the league for reason to get the trade approved. So the Hornets had to be in at that point. or maybe the reason the call was late is because the Hornets backed out at the last minute, but then why was Bird calling? Unless he was calling to get the league to report a trade that didn't include the hornets.

None of it makes much sense to me.

Mackey_Rose
02-25-2011, 09:47 AM
I find it hard to believe that Memphis would turn down...

Ronnie Brewer
2 1st round picks
1 2nd round pick

but agree to...

Josh McRoberts
1 1st round pick

Very hard to believe, and if it's actually true then Heisley is more of a moron than has been estimated before.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-0225-trade-bulls-heat-chicago-20110224,0,1581666.story

It has already been posted, but you can read the details here.

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 09:48 AM
Expirings were crucial in getting cap space for last years draft class. With Melo being traded, no big market teams need the cap space. They need talent shored up for when the new CBA is in effect.

This means we not only had expirings in the wrong year for a trade, but now we will have cap space in the worst free agency period since the free agency hit the market.

If teams are grandfathered into a new deal, then we are getting 60 cents on the dollar in our cap space.

You have hit the nail on the head as to why expiring contracts didn't have nearly as much value as they normally do. bad year for the pacers to have all the expirings.

BRushWithDeath
02-25-2011, 09:49 AM
I find it hard to believe that Memphis would turn down...

Ronnie Brewer
2 1st round picks
1 2nd round pick

but agree to...

Josh McRoberts
1 1st round pick

Very hard to believe, and if it's actually true then Heisley is more of a moron than has been estimated before.

The Grizzlies want to win this season. They win a lot more this season adding Josh McRoberts than they do adding Ronnie Brewer.

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 09:52 AM
The Grizzlies want to win this season. They win a lot more this season adding Josh McRoberts than they do adding Ronnie Brewer.

And that makes sense with teams like the Nuggets, Blazers, Jazz all much worse than they were at the start of the season the Grizzlies think they can make some noise in the playoffs.

Mackey_Rose
02-25-2011, 09:52 AM
If we actually got screwed because the call was one minute late...

**** this league.

How is that the league's fault? They have known about this deadline the entire year. It isn't like the league surprised them at 2:30 yesterday and switched up when the deadline was.

February 24, 2011 3:00 PM EST. That's the deadline. Plain and simple.

If you wanted this trade to go through, don't be mad at the NBA. Be mad at the ineptitude of the front offices involved.

BoomBaby33
02-25-2011, 09:54 AM
"This season has been a mess: He was late for a game-day shootaround and was pulled from the starting lineup. He got in a fight on a plane with a teammate. And he was suspended 10 games for taking a banned substance, DHEA, which he said he ingested from an over-the-counter energy drink he got at a gas station."



I had had enough of this kind of behavior with the tins-jack-seane era. I do not want any more of these sketchy charachters on my Pacers team any more. Yeah, Mayos a good talent, but I agree with JMV from yesterday, he is a "me" player. I am once again proud of the blue collar type team we have. I think it represents our city the way it should.

I am so glad this trade didnt happen. Im not the biggest McBob fan, but he brings alot of energy and he fits a role. I dont understand why Mayo would have been an offensive boon at this point, because we have scored 100 points or more in every game since Frank took over. Id rather have Danny, Paul and even Dahntay shooting than OJ. Its the defensive end of the court that needs to get better and Josh fits that need more than OJ. Mayo would have gotten in the way of Paul George's progress anyway. We are gonna be fine.

One more thing. With all the Stern haters on here claiming he sabatouged this, I wonder if Bird had this planned out to sabatage anyway at 3:01, because Chicago was trying hard for Mayo too. Bird has been in the league long enough to know a deadline is a deadline. Just sayin...:whoknows:

Major Cold
02-25-2011, 10:01 AM
You have hit the nail on the head as to why expiring contracts didn't have nearly as much value as they normally do. bad year for the pacers to have all the expirings.

But it was for the free agency class.

I think a lot of this was out of the hands of Bird to control, but it does not absolve him entirely.

The lack of value on our cap space will result from stock piling bad contracts to strive to win while the window was open.

The JO trade got us Hibbert, but it also extended half of his salary an extra year in For.

The Dunleavy/Murphy trade was horrible no matter how you slice it. Not only did we get one player who handcuffed our flexibility, but it was two players over the MLE .

The good news is after the dust settles, Posey's contract maybe equal or worth more than Murphy's contract last year. Any team needing space to get Chris Paul and company would covet a contract like his.

Eindar
02-25-2011, 10:09 AM
I'm glad we didn't get Mayo. Bringing him in would violate my "One knucklehead per team" rule. If you don't think he and Lance would be hanging out together making the front page and ruining team chemistry, you've got a very short-term memory.

If we didn't have Lance, I wouldn't have minded bringing him in, but Lance makes other moves for immature players destined for failure.

RWB
02-25-2011, 10:11 AM
No question, Mayo has some baggage. He was suspended in high school for an altercation with an official. He was charged with marijuana possession in high school. He got USC put on NCAA probation for accepting freebies.

Bob, you left out he punched a team mate at USC and actually broke the guys jaw. It was reported as an accident, thrown elbow, however others who were on the court said it was a punch and a coverup.

What this actually shows is Larry does love talent over citizenship. I'm sure he's still a big fan of Ron Artest and would have him back on the team except the fans might riot.

jeffg-body
02-25-2011, 10:11 AM
IMHO I am glad that this trade didn't go through. I don't think a guy with Mayo's character issues would have done anything for the positive chemistry that we have now. He is a selfish player who puts himself ahead of the team. With all of the expiring contracts we have and next year being a not so spectacular list of FA out there maybe it would be wise to keep the cap space and go for some of the bigger fish in 2012. That is unless we can pull a trade with some over the cap team to get a guy like West.

Strummer
02-25-2011, 10:16 AM
As someone who often is critical of Kravitz, I will say that was one of his better columns.

I will dispute the claim he makes here though.

From several to a dozen NBA insiders across the spectrum, they have all said that right now teams aren't looking for cap space, they aren't necessarily looking to get players on the last year of their deal. In previous years our expirings would have had more trade value

I think this trade was a no-brainer for the Pacers and I would like to know exactly where the mistake was made if there was one

I'd dispute that claim is a different way. We did turn one expiring contract (Murphy) into a starting point guard (Collison). The idea that we were going to have that kind of success more than once is wildly optimistic. And does Bird not get credit for that trade because it wasn't at the deadline?

90'sNBARocked
02-25-2011, 10:17 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-0225-trade-bulls-heat-chicago-20110224,0,1581666.story

It has already been posted, but you can read the details here.


Though one league insider familiar with the talks said, “It looked like (Michael) Heisley didn’t want to deal with the Bulls.” Heisley lives in the Chicago area and long has had an ambivalent relationship with the Bulls. NBA.com

Petty, but makes sense why they rejected the Bulls offer. Unless they thought that highly of McBob

Jared Sullinger
02-25-2011, 10:26 AM
Petty, but makes sense why they rejected the Bulls offer. Unless they thought that highly of McBob

I bet most GMs are starting to realize that McBob is a pretty good young PF; a Josh Smith-lite.

It's also been said that Chicago didn't include Charlotte's 1st, which means it would've been Miami's 1st and their own─currently 28th and 26th, respectively. They probably preferred our single mid-round 1st (currently 15th) to two picks in the mid-to-late 20s.

Sparhawk
02-25-2011, 10:26 AM
I'd assume he means as future trade bait.

Yes, you are correct.

Strummer
02-25-2011, 10:27 AM
The thing that amazes me about all this is that the focus is all on the Pacers. How often do multi-team trades fall apart at the last moment when one team changes their mind?

The answer is "We don't know". Why don't we know? Because usually team owners don't announce trades before they're official. What was Michael Heisley doing talking about the trade before it was official? Before the phone call was made?

Often trades are leaked through agents and players. But through an owner? I can't think of that happening before.

Why isn't anyone here crucifying Michael Heisley? Let me be the first. If he had kept his mouth shut then there would not even be an issue. We have no idea how often trades fall apart at the last moment. This could be business as usual in the NBA. I see no reason to criticize the Pacers at this point. (and no, I don't accept the "late phone call" scenario. that doesn't jive with NO backing out)

MyFavMartin
02-25-2011, 10:29 AM
It was stated that the Griz have been high on McRoberts for a while. Couple that with teams making noise about going after Marc Gasol (RFA) this summer with a huge contract off that the Griz might not want to offer, McRoberts might give them someone to look at for the rest of the season as a potential resignee and consolation if Gasol's contract offer isn't matched.

Also, it's stated that Mayo has worn out his welcome in Memphis.

Seemed like a good match in terms of team needs/wants.

As for the OJ overated comments, I've heard teams like NY Knicks, LA Lakers and Chicago would love to have him. So why can't we?

JRose stated that he wouldn't be surprised if Mayo would have loved it in Indy and resigned/wanted to stay here because of Bird.

tfarks
02-25-2011, 10:31 AM
Chicago definitely muddled things up. They wanted more from the Bulls because they knew they were a legit championship contender. When the Bulls wouldn't budge they came to the Pacers at the last minute. A minute too late actually. If the Bulls weren't going after Mayo this could have gotten done earlier, and if the Hornets backed out there would be time to rectify that with a new team.

johndozark
02-25-2011, 10:49 AM
I agree with jeffg-body. I can't believe that Kravitz composed the following list of Mayo problems and then blamed Bird for not pulling off this deal:

"No question, Mayo has some baggage. He was suspended in high school for an altercation with an official. He was charged with marijuana possession in high school. He got USC put on NCAA probation for accepting freebies.

After a remarkable rookie season in 2008-09 (18.5 points per game) and a solid second season (17.5 ppg), he has gone south in his third season, averaging 12.1 points in 28 minutes, primarily coming off the bench. This season has been a mess: He was late for a game-day shootaround and was pulled from the starting lineup. He got in a fight on a plane with a teammate. And he was suspended 10 games for taking a banned substance, DHEA, which he said he ingested from an over-the-counter energy drink he got at a gas station." http://www.indystar.com/article/20110225/SPORTS15/102250327/Kravitz-Pacers-blow-chance-add-draft-lottery-talent-bargain-price?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports

Kravitz should have been questioning why Bird was contemplating blowing up our team by adding exponentially to our Stephenson distraction potential challenge.

Check the per/36 minute shooting percentages and scoring averages for 2010-11 of Mayo versus our top five wings. Is there one of our wings that you would not prefer offensively overall to Mayo? Only George's 3p% lags, and most of us anticipate that being fixed by next year. In most categories, our wings win hands down.

It is not insignificant that Mayo's per 36 minutes numbers are dropping.

Realistically, would Mayo add that much to our scoring? Sure, he might be able to create his own shot, but how often would he end up subtracting shots that other players make within the flow of the offense? And how often would his missed shots contribute to scores at the other end for the other team?

I say that we should send thank you notes to the NBA office for stalling their answering of Larry's phone call.

BPump33
02-25-2011, 10:54 AM
I find it pretty ridiculous that just a few years ago Kravitz was leading the force to "clean up" the Pacers. He was always getting the "casual fan" even more riled up about Jackson, Tinsley, etc. Now, we are winning and look to be on the right track and he is killing us for not trading for someone that he had to take 3 paragraphs to explain his "history." C'mon man.

diamonddave00
02-25-2011, 11:06 AM
It appears to me Bird feels Hansbrough is ready to play 30+ minutes a night , as a result McRoberts will see less time from now on . He saw Mayo as an upgrade over Rush and could also get rid of Soloman Jones at the same time.

If Josh wanted after the season and the Pacers found it was a mistake trading him they simply could sign him as a free agent.

Mayo who is being bashed here at 23 with a fresh start would fit the Pacers plans long term if he showed he wanted to fit - I value Jalen Rose's comments when the Pacers acquired Rose he was considered a malcontent in Denver but flurished here under Bird. Jalen was speaking from personal experience and I'm sure with knowledge of Mayo as a person.

I DO HOPE Bird makes every effort to get Mayo this summer . I believe the doubters will regret the trade failed as time goes on. Mayo at 6'4 can play some point guard too , seems to me the fact Bird wanted him shows he's less than satisfied with Rush and Price in my opinion.

I like Josh but with Hansbrough here I truly see Josh going back to being a 15 minute a game sub if he is even here next season.

HOOPFANATIC
02-25-2011, 11:14 AM
Where the **** did all these " Thug player lovin people" come from???
I wish there had been more on here to join me in complaining about getting rid of talented but thuggish guys a few years back.

The weird thing is I couldn't agree...less. CHEMISTRY is the key. Day one our team has got along great and I personally think Jmac is crucial. There's a reason why Memphis wanted him out of all our players. He's an intangible guy, like a Rambis, Birdman, Bowen.
How hard is it too find a guy willing to do that??? Memphis had definitely seen the tape on him, or maybe Conley told em.

BillS
02-25-2011, 11:46 AM
First, Mayo is pretty light on the "thug" scale. I think with the changed expectations on this team from 4 years ago he'd be fine.

Second, my understanding from piecing multiple stories together is that NO backed out and Bird was able to get ANOTHER TEAM involved at the last minute, just not fast enough. Doesn't he deserve some props for that?

Third, I've seen some people blaming the Pacers for insisting that a third team be involved to make the financials work. Make no mistake, if we were dealing only with Memphis we'd have been giving up a player of equal or higher value than Josh to make the salaries fit - and I think everyone would have been very disappointed. I'm glad Bird stuck to his guns rather than being railroaded.

Fourth, it has been mentioned that this is a failure by Bird because he always wants to "win" the deal. Well, what other reason is there to make a deal? Just to shuffle players around (if you "break even") or to lose the deal by taking a flyer on it?

Fifth, I find it ironic that if Memphis hadn't messed up and announced this before it was final then a lot of posters on here would have refused to believe Bird was doing anything and would have insisted he sat on his hands - in spite of any news reports to the contrary - since no deal was done. This might actually have been a good thing in that it proves Larry wasn't just out fishin'

Sixth, considering the opinions on this deal are almost dead even split between like and dislike - with a huge "meh" contingent - I can't believe this is the make-or-break moment.

And finally, just 6 months ago Bird came up with a blockbuster steal of a trade. Now that time ran out on him, he's suddenly totally incompetent? Some folks need to remember that there is a huge span between "sucks rocks" and "walks on water".

beast23
02-25-2011, 11:50 AM
Are you going to complain the next time the shot clock expires before the Pacers get a shot off? It's the same :censored: thing.Thank you. A rule is a rule. Period.

From my perspective, it was pretty obvious that the Carmello trade backed everything up. A lot of teams were probably waiting to see if they could somehow be dragged into that trade as a 3rd or 4th team and possibly benefit from it.

Without doubt, the Pacers had been working on the trade all day long as evidenced by the Memphis GM stating that they had internally argued about trading Mayo "all day long".

We really don't know at what point, but the Pacers drug the Hornets into the trade as well. And, they also had the Bulls compounding the decision making by also making a very strong bid for Mayo.

I'm really thinking that this process took nearly all of the available time before the deadline. I think that the teams involved probably had a deal together "in principle only". But once you involve that third team in the deal then the deal, and therefore the agreement, is about three teams, not two.

At some point very late in the game, it apears the Hornets dropped out. As far as we know, it could have even been when the Bird or the three GMs were on the phone with the league office to consumate the deal. But again, once the third team drops out, it's not the same deal, not the same trade. It takes a new agreement. That probably takes a few minutes for Bird and the Memphis GM to talk to confirm that they will still go ahead with the trade. And somewhere in this entire process, we either got bit in the butt, or bit ourselves in the butt.

It's done; for JC's sake, move on! Get the hell over it! It no longer matters where the process broke down. You can re-live it a thousand times and you will end up with the same result. No trade was completed.

Nothing else really matters. Be pissed and confused that we didn't make a trade if you want. But the reasons are really irrelevant. It simply did not get done.

Move on.

Unclebuck
02-25-2011, 11:51 AM
First, Mayo is pretty light on the "thug" scale. I think with the changed expectations on this team from 4 years ago he'd be fine.

Second, my understanding from piecing multiple stories together is that NO backed out and Bird was able to get ANOTHER TEAM involved at the last minute, just not fast enough. Doesn't he deserve some props for that?

Third, I've seen some people blaming the Pacers for insisting that a third team be involved to make the financials work. Make no mistake, if we were dealing only with Memphis we'd have been giving up a player of equal or higher value than Josh to make the salaries fit - and I think everyone would have been very disappointed. I'm glad Bird stuck to his guns rather than being railroaded.

Fourth, it has been mentioned that this is a failure by Bird because he always wants to "win" the deal. Well, what other reason is there to make a deal? Just to shuffle players around (if you "break even") or to lose the deal by taking a flyer on it?

Fifth, I find it ironic that if Memphis hadn't messed up and announced this before it was final then a lot of posters on here would have refused to believe Bird was doing anything and would have insisted he sat on his hands - in spite of any news reports to the contrary - since no deal was done. This might actually have been a good thing in that it proves Larry wasn't just out fishin'

Sixth, considering the opinions on this deal are almost dead even split between like and dislike - with a huge "meh" contingent - I can't believe this is the make-or-break moment.

And finally, just 6 months ago Bird came up with a blockbuster steal of a trade. Now that time ran out on him, he's suddenly totally incompetent? Some folks need to remember that there is a huge span between "sucks rocks" and "walks on water".

I think this is the post that should end all the trade deadline discussion (excellent post), lets get back to the current team as it as we get set to play two very important games this weekend, Because the schedule gets very tough next week. Thunder and Mavs or no

IndySDExport
02-25-2011, 11:53 AM
"No question, Mayo has some baggage. He was suspended in high school for an altercation with an official. He was charged with marijuana possession in high school. He got USC put on NCAA probation for accepting freebies.

After a remarkable rookie season in 2008-09 (18.5 points per game) and a solid second season (17.5 ppg), he has gone south in his third season, averaging 12.1 points in 28 minutes, primarily coming off the bench. This season has been a mess: He was late for a game-day shootaround and was pulled from the starting lineup. He got in a fight on a plane with a teammate. And he was suspended 10 games for taking a banned substance, DHEA, which he said he ingested from an over-the-counter energy drink he got at a gas station."

Are we serious? Kravitz is such a hypocrite. The past two years even the sniff of a head case near the locker room and he was all over Larry Bird. NOW he's willing to over look baggage for the sake of talent and blame Larry Bird for not brining it here.

Plus nothing he's said in this article amounts to journalism. Kravitz has essentially read an ESPN article and Twitter and formulated this with out any due diligence on his part. If I had a print copy of the indy star, I'm pretty sure I would use this article as toilet paper.

Hicks
02-25-2011, 11:59 AM
First, Mayo is pretty light on the "thug" scale. I think with the changed expectations on this team from 4 years ago he'd be fine.

Second, my understanding from piecing multiple stories together is that NO backed out and Bird was able to get ANOTHER TEAM involved at the last minute, just not fast enough. Doesn't he deserve some props for that?

Third, I've seen some people blaming the Pacers for insisting that a third team be involved to make the financials work. Make no mistake, if we were dealing only with Memphis we'd have been giving up a player of equal or higher value than Josh to make the salaries fit - and I think everyone would have been very disappointed. I'm glad Bird stuck to his guns rather than being railroaded.

Fourth, it has been mentioned that this is a failure by Bird because he always wants to "win" the deal. Well, what other reason is there to make a deal? Just to shuffle players around (if you "break even") or to lose the deal by taking a flyer on it?

Fifth, I find it ironic that if Memphis hadn't messed up and announced this before it was final then a lot of posters on here would have refused to believe Bird was doing anything and would have insisted he sat on his hands - in spite of any news reports to the contrary - since no deal was done. This might actually have been a good thing in that it proves Larry wasn't just out fishin'

Sixth, considering the opinions on this deal are almost dead even split between like and dislike - with a huge "meh" contingent - I can't believe this is the make-or-break moment.

And finally, just 6 months ago Bird came up with a blockbuster steal of a trade. Now that time ran out on him, he's suddenly totally incompetent? Some folks need to remember that there is a huge span between "sucks rocks" and "walks on water".

No ****ing kidding.

I'm one of the 'disappointed' after this fell through, but I'm incredulous at a lot of the (over) reactions I'm reading on here today. Good grief!

Hibbert
02-25-2011, 12:06 PM
This whole deal would not of netted us OJ Mayo, it would of gotten us David West. We were to trade our 1st rd pick with Jmac to Memphis for OJ than turn around and flip him, Rush, and Solo and a pick to N.O. for David West.

imawhat
02-25-2011, 12:08 PM
Just to reiterate what 'Buck's saying, something is still very fishy here. We're missing a very important detail that would tie this all together.

Maybe it's possible to phone in a deal before the ink is dry. I don't know, but there's more to this story.

imawhat
02-25-2011, 12:09 PM
This whole deal would not of netted us OJ Mayo, it would of gotten us David West. We were to trade our 1st rd pick with Jmac to Memphis for OJ than turn around and flip him, Rush, and Solo and a pick to N.O. for David West.

Unless you have sources, this doesn't make sense. Bird's already said he thought Mayo would've been perfect for us, meaning Mayo's the person he wanted.

Hicks
02-25-2011, 12:15 PM
This whole deal would not of netted us OJ Mayo, it would of gotten us David West. We were to trade our 1st rd pick with Jmac to Memphis for OJ than turn around and flip him, Rush, and Solo and a pick to N.O. for David West.

Do you have any proof of this?

BRushWithDeath
02-25-2011, 12:18 PM
Unless you have sources, this doesn't make sense. Bird's already said he thought Mayo would've been perfect for us, meaning Mayo's the person he wanted.

I don't think that is what the deal was but it does make a hell of a lot more sense than just a straight Josh for Mayo swap.

For us anyway. It also explains why NOLA backed out. Because that is a terrible deal for them.

Speed
02-25-2011, 12:22 PM
If that was the deal, I'm better off not knowing at this point.

Hibbert
02-25-2011, 12:25 PM
Unless you have sources, this doesn't make sense. Bird's already said he thought Mayo would've been perfect for us, meaning Mayo's the person he wanted.

It makes complete sense, just heard it on 1070 the fan.

Hicks
02-25-2011, 12:26 PM
It makes complete sense, just heard it on 1070 the fan.

Who did you hear, and what did they say? It sounds like speculation.

CableKC
02-25-2011, 12:27 PM
Based off of what we know about the Hornets offer ( from Wells ), if the Pacers send out BRush + Solo, their combined 2010-2011 Salary is roughly $3.57 mil.....this means that they can take in 2 Players with a combined 2010-2011 Salary range ( roughly ) between $3 mil to $4.25 mil ( no more no less ).

The only 2 "unnamed" Hornets Player combination that would fit within the Salary range are the following 2-Player combination:

1 ) Aaron Gray + Jason Smith = $3.21 mil in combined 2010-2011 Salary
2 ) Aaron Gray + David Anderson = $3.53 mil in combined 2010-2011 Salary
3 ) DJ Mbenga + Jason Smith = $3.04 mil in combined 2010-2011 Salary
4 ) DJ Mbenga + David Anderson = $3.35 mil in combined 2010-2011 Salary

Although Quincy Pondexter and Carl Landry have the only Salaries that fit...I doubt that the Hornets would include either of them since they are highly valued prospects. As for anyone else on the roster ( like Jarrett Jack ), I could be wrong...but everyone else on the Hornets roster wouldn't fit "salary-wise".

So if the Hornets didn't back out, we would have been looking at the following scenario:

BRush+Solo+McBob+1st round Pick

for

OJ Mayo + 2 Serviceable Hornets Big Men + a ( likely ) 1st or ( possibly...but unlikely ) 2nd round Draft pick.

Not bad....if you ask me. I don't know about you...but I hope that the next time we play the Hornets...we crush them.

NOTE - or what pwee31 said in 2 sentences on the 1st page of this thread :).

Hibbert
02-25-2011, 12:29 PM
Who did you hear, and what did they say? It sounds like speculation.

The Grady and Big Joe Show, Michael Grady was the one who stated that.

JB24
02-25-2011, 12:30 PM
The Grady and Big Joe Show, Michael Grady was the one who stated that.

Excuse me while i go and jump off a bridge.

BringJackBack
02-25-2011, 12:33 PM
It's complete speculation on their part guys..

Hibbert
02-25-2011, 12:37 PM
Are you kidding me? Do you all really think that Bird would of given up Josh at this point along with our first just for OJ Mayo? He has spent too many years ridding this team of bad eggs just to now add another one who was just involved in two seperate incidents which made him look immature and not a very good team guy/locker room guy to have. We wouldnt of done that deal if that was it. N.O. just got Landry who is more than capable of starting in this league which he showed 2 yrs ago and David West is no sure thing to come back with them next year so to get a nice young talented scoring 2 to pair with Paul, Ariza, and Landry, that makes a decent team.

MyFavMartin
02-25-2011, 12:37 PM
Based off of what we know about the Hornets offer ( from Wells ), if the Pacers send out BRush + Solo, their combined 2010-2011 Salary is roughly $3.57 mil.....this means that they can take in 2 Players with a combined 2010-2011 Salary range ( roughly ) between $3 mil to $4.25 mil ( no more no less ).

The only 2 "unnamed" Hornets Player combination that would fit within the Salary range are the following 2-Player combination:

1 ) Aaron Gray + Jason Smith = $3.21 mil in combined 2010-2011 Salary
2 ) Aaron Gray + David Anderson = $3.53 mil in combined 2010-2011 Salary
3 ) DJ Mbenga + Jason Smith = $3.04 mil in combined 2010-2011 Salary
4 ) DJ Mbenga + David Anderson = $3.35 mil in combined 2010-2011 Salary

Although Quincy Pondexter and Carl Landry have the only Salaries that fit...I doubt that the Hornets would include either of them since they are highly valued prospects. As for anyone else on the roster ( like Jarrett Jack ), I could be wrong...but everyone else on the Hornets roster wouldn't fit "salary-wise".

So if the Hornets didn't back out, we would have been looking at the following scenario:

BRush+Solo+McBob+1st round Pick

for

OJ Mayo + 2 Serviceable Hornets Big Men + a ( likely ) 1st or ( possibly...but unlikely ) 2nd round Draft pick.

Not bad....if you ask me. I don't know about you...but I hope that the next time we play the Hornets...we crush them.

NOTE - or what pwee31 said in 2 sentences on the 1st page of this thread :).

I don't see Bird trading BRush for anybody but Landry. All the ones you mentioned just doesn't equate, talent-wise.

diamonddave00
02-25-2011, 12:39 PM
We would have got the 2 servicible bigs from Hornets to fill the 10 minutes max left backing up Hansbrough and a few minutes for Granger at pf each night. Mbenga a good defender would have prob been a situational defender . Plus a 1st and a 2nd rounder.

There is no way the Hornets in a playoff run deal David West at this time.

CableKC
02-25-2011, 12:41 PM
I know the pacers will likely have to give up more, but I still don't understand why the trade cannot be revisited this summer. if the Grizzlies really wanted Josh, then a sign and trade can be worked out and iof the Griz want an expiring contract for next year we can include Posey
The assumption is that the Grizzlies wanted to add some Frontcourt depth to their current Playoff run since Darrell Arthur, ZBo and Gasol are the only 3 viable Frontcourt Players. If that is the case, they weren't as much interested SPECIFICALLY in McBob....but interested in getting another serviceable PF to add to their rotation.

After this season...it's likely that ZBo will be gone...so the Grizzlies maybe interested in moving Mayo...but not as interested in McBob the Player. They needed McBob for this year's Playoff run....by the start of the 2011-2012 Offseason...they may have different plans.

beast23
02-25-2011, 12:47 PM
This whole deal would not of netted us OJ Mayo, it would of gotten us David West. We were to trade our 1st rd pick with Jmac to Memphis for OJ than turn around and flip him, Rush, and Solo and a pick to N.O. for David West.I'll listen to the show once it's available online. But I'm sure that it was a what if kind of statement rather than an absolute. Otherwise, we would have read it from another source by now. Regardless, how can you net West from a trade of Rush and SJones, and why would NO be giving up a first to us in the same trade?

Jeez, we could have also attempted to throw in all-nighters with each of the Pacemates and NO would never have made that trade. It would have been the Collison trade x 10.

No effing way. So here I'm calling that BS. Grady pulled this one from the southern end of his torso.

Hibbert
02-25-2011, 12:48 PM
We would have got the 2 servicible bigs from Hornets to fill the 10 minutes max left backing up Hansbrough and a few minutes for Granger at pf each night. Mbenga a good defender would have prob been a situational defender . Plus a 1st and a 2nd rounder.

There is no way the Hornets in a playoff run deal David West at this time.

Why? They obviously almost did. The are 3rd to last in scoring in the NBA. West is a free agent after the year, why wouldnt they try to get some value for him? OJ becomes their starting 2, a position they definitely needed an upgrade, plus he's a scorer. Landry would of slid into the starting 4 spot, who averaged 18 and 6.5 after the trade that sent him to Sactown where he became the starter. Thats a point and a rebound less than West is averaging right now. Makes sense but who cares anymore, nothing happened. Just thought I would share what I heard.

Speed
02-25-2011, 12:53 PM
One thought occurred to me on the new CBA and all the benefits that Pacers may get. I don't think the big money/big market teams are going to allowed themselves to be screwed in this deal. The talk of a hard cap where teams will just have to jettison players to get under I think has NO chance of happening. I can't see the big spending teams ever allowing this to happen.

I mostly think the whole, the small market team will benefit great thing is being over played in the CBA speculations by the media.

Not being pessimistic, just saying the Pacers may benefit from cap space, but it may not be as much as is being speculated.

Last thing, how much will they be under the real salary cap, not the luxury tax? Do we know? Thats the main number to consider now I think since the expirings are now a moot point.

Since86
02-25-2011, 12:53 PM
They wanted another PF, not a guard.

So you're telling me that Memphis didn't think they could flip two 1st round draft picks that were given to them into a solid PF?

Two 1st rounders can get a lot done in this league.

CableKC
02-25-2011, 12:59 PM
I don't see Bird trading BRush for anybody but Landry. All the ones you mentioned just doesn't equate, talent-wise.
I don't....if there was to be some 3 way trade involving BRush / Landry / Thornton....why would it be handled in this fashion at the last second?

Why not do it as a 3 Team trade when the Kings and Hornets made the deal 2 days ago?

To me, its reasonable to assume the following as to how it panned out:

- Bird is convinced that we can live with Hansbrough handling an increased # of minutes for the rest of the season.
- We send out McBob+1st for OJ...we therefore need some Frontcourt Depth to make up for the loss of McBob.
- The Hornets having an apparent need for a solid Perimeter Defender ( something that Marcus Thornton wasn't good at doing ) coming off the bench that can hit the 3pt shot and a minor need to thin out the Frontcourt ( now that they have Landry ) may be interested in some deal involving BRush.
- With the previous relationship involving the Murphy/DC/Ariza trade....Bird calls up the Hornets to work out something.
- Since the Pacers would have sent out their 1st round pick for OJ....Bird asks for a draft pick ( I don't know if it's a 1st or 2nd round pick ) to come back since BRush has more value then the likely combination of Frontcourt Players coming back.
- Bird calls Stern and gets put on hold.
- While Bird is listening to "Elevator music" on hold.....sometime after 3:01pm, the Hornets get cold feet and screw us out of a solid deal.

I know that there is some huge assumptions made here.....but if the deal was involving Landry.....Bird would have been working the phones way before this OJ deal came up.

CableKC
02-25-2011, 01:08 PM
But the pacers were calling the league for reason to get the trade approved. So the Hornets had to be in at that point. or maybe the reason the call was late is because the Hornets backed out at the last minute, but then why was Bird calling? Unless he was calling to get the league to report a trade that didn't include the hornets.

None of it makes much sense to me.
Something just doesn't add up here....hence the thread that was created that this was a "hoax". ;)

MyFavMartin
02-25-2011, 01:14 PM
I don't....if there was to be some 3 way trade involving BRush / Landry / Thornton....why would it be handled in this fashion at the last second?

Why not do it as a 3 Team trade when the Kings and Hornets made the deal 2 days ago?

To me, its reasonable to assume the following as to how it panned out:

- Bird is convinced that we can live with Hansbrough handling an increased # of minutes for the rest of the season.
- We send out McBob+1st for OJ...we therefore need some Frontcourt Depth to make up for the loss of McBob.
- The Hornets having an apparent need for a solid Perimeter Defender ( something that Marcus Thornton wasn't good at doing ) coming off the bench that can hit the 3pt shot and a minor need to thin out the Frontcourt ( now that they have Landry ) may be interested in some deal involving BRush.
- With the previous relationship involving the Murphy/DC/Ariza trade....Bird calls up the Hornets to work out something.
- Since the Pacers would have sent out their 1st round pick for OJ....Bird asks for a draft pick ( I don't know if it's a 1st or 2nd round pick ) to come back since BRush has more value then the likely combination of Frontcourt Players coming back.
- Bird calls Stern and gets put on hold.
- While Bird is listening to "Elevator music" on hold.....sometime after 3:01pm, the Hornets get cold feet and screw us out of a solid deal.

I know that there is some huge assumptions made here.....but if the deal was involving Landry.....Bird would have been working the phones way before this OJ deal came up.

Agree to disagree. Landry is a FA this summer and NO has a strong possibility of losing him for nothing and converting him into a SG that would pair nicely with CP3 and is on a rookie contract is something I'm all over if I'm NO.

And I'm not sure that the draft pick from NO would be all that good to warrant giving up BRush for Mbenga or other non-Landry filler.

CooperManning
02-25-2011, 01:16 PM
So you're telling me that Memphis didn't think they could flip two 1st round draft picks that were given to them into a solid PF?

Two 1st rounders can get a lot done in this league.

Unless you're the Bulls.

Swish
02-25-2011, 01:19 PM
Didn't we have a team with a few OJ Mayos and we got rid of them? I don't see how getting him would have helped this franchise.

Hibbert
02-25-2011, 01:22 PM
I'll listen to the show once it's available online. But I'm sure that it was a what if kind of statement rather than an absolute. Otherwise, we would have read it from another source by now. Regardless, how can you net West from a trade of Rush and SJones, and why would NO be giving up a first to us in the same trade?

Jeez, we could have also attempted to throw in all-nighters with each of the Pacemates and NO would never have made that trade. It would have been the Collison trade x 10.

No effing way. So here I'm calling that BS. Grady pulled this one from the southern end of his torso.

Listen to it than since im just full of **** right? I dont care what you want to call it, it is what it is. Grady knows more hears more than the average fan so Im sure he knows what hes talking about. We would of included Mayo as well and a pick. Makes sense for all involved, at least to me I guess.

CableKC
02-25-2011, 01:26 PM
Why? They obviously almost did. The are 3rd to last in scoring in the NBA. West is a free agent after the year, why wouldnt they try to get some value for him? OJ becomes their starting 2, a position they definitely needed an upgrade, plus he's a scorer. Landry would of slid into the starting 4 spot, who averaged 18 and 6.5 after the trade that sent him to Sactown where he became the starter. Thats a point and a rebound less than West is averaging right now. Makes sense but who cares anymore, nothing happened. Just thought I would share what I heard.
Ignoring that Landry isn't half the rebounder and not nearly as good of a scorer as David West is.......this is not one of those cases where "OJ+Landry EQUALS the loss of West"....if anything...it would likely affected their Playoff chances by losing a proven vet like West.

One more thing...Monty Williams benched then traded Marcus Thornton ( their highly touted rookie last season ) because Thornton sucked it up on the defensive end....OJ Mayo ( from what I have heard ) defense isn't that good. This is why I could see the Hornets having more interest in a Player like BRush ( who does play defense ) while keeping David West over making some trade involving OJ+Landry while losing David West in the process.

BPump33
02-25-2011, 01:46 PM
These were Jason Whitlock's tweets yesterday:

Indianapolis marijuana dealers planning to protest NBA offices demanding that Mayo be united with Stephenson and Rush. #blow2theconomy


Thank God Bird missed the trade deadline. Word is w/Mayo, Lance Stephenson and BRush on same team, u couldn't buy any good weed in Indy.

OJ Mayo! OJ Mayo! Did Larry Bird learn nothing from Artest era? I got 2 root for OJ Mayo? Why? Please let Larry Legend take over the Celtics

Whether you liked the trade or not, do we really want the national media talking about us like this again? I know Whitlock can be a douche, but still reading those yesterday made me sick.

PaceBalls
02-25-2011, 01:53 PM
These were Jason Whitlock's tweets yesterday:

Indianapolis marijuana dealers planning to protest NBA offices demanding that Mayo be united with Stephenson and Rush. #blow2theconomy


Thank God Bird missed the trade deadline. Word is w/Mayo, Lance Stephenson and BRush on same team, u couldn't buy any good weed in Indy.

OJ Mayo! OJ Mayo! Did Larry Bird learn nothing from Artest era? I got 2 root for OJ Mayo? Why? Please let Larry Legend take over the Celtics

Whether you liked the trade or not, do we really want the national media talking about us like this again? I know Whitlock can be a douche, but still reading those yesterday made me sick.

Well he has a point with Rush, but I didn't know Lance and OJ were considered stoners?

People just love to hate the Pacers and want them to be bad boys... even 7 years after the brawl with all the milk drinking american role models we have had.

CableKC
02-25-2011, 01:55 PM
Agree to disagree. Landry is a FA this summer and NO has a strong possibility of losing him for nothing and converting him into a SG that would pair nicely with CP3 and is on a rookie contract is something I'm all over if I'm NO.
You're losing me here.....Landry being a UFA ( and therefore the Hornets could lose him and get nothing in return for him ) has nothing to do with including him in some last minute "2nd deal" involving BRush.

Unless the intention of the Hornets FO was to "flip" Landry immediately to a Team looking for some Frontcourt Depth......it simply doesn't make sense to have 2 separate deals that get them Landry instead of making some 3-Team trade involving Indy/SacTown/NO.

To me, that wouldn't only make any sense...it would be risky without having a deal in place with Indy ALREADY. If that was the case ( as in having 2 separate deals instead of a single 3 Team trade ), then the Hornets run the risk of being stuck with Landry ( a Player that they had no intention of keeping in the first place because...as you say....they don't want to lose a Player that they just traded for a day before for nothing ) IF ( for some reason ) the separate "Landry for BRush" deal with the Pacers falls through ( which ended up happening ).

It's more reasonable to assume that the Hornets picked up Landry for the same reason why the Thunder jettisoned Jeff Green for Kendrick Perkins ( a UFA )....to add some solid depth in the Frontcourt for a Playoff Push...even if it meant renting him for a few months.


And I'm not sure that the draft pick from NO would be all that good to warrant giving up BRush for Mbenga or other non-Landry filler.
JMHO....but the Pacers clearly have little interest in keeping BRush for the long-haul....IF they are able to get a 1st round pick for him ( my guess is that it would have been a 1st...not a 2nd round pick for him ) while adding little to no 2011-2012 Salary..then it's fair value. With the multiple attempts at moving BRush over the last couple of seasons....getting a 1st round pick for him maybe worth it to the Pacers FO.

But as you say....this is all based off of our own assumptions....so overall....yes, we agree to disagree.

cdash
02-25-2011, 02:13 PM
So you're telling me that Memphis didn't think they could flip two 1st round draft picks that were given to them into a solid PF?

Two 1st rounders can get a lot done in this league.

I read somewhere that the Grizzlies owner (Michael Heisley) still owns a house in the Chicago area and he doesn't want to help them gain any sort of competitive advantage. I think it was ESPN somewhere. Also, the Grizzlies had their rendezvous with Brewer last year and obviously didn't want him back. They are trying to make the playoffs this year and had plenty of wing depth, so they wanted another frontcourt player to prepare for the Lakers, Spurs, and Thunders of the world. I think our first round pick is more attractive to them as well. You know the Bulls will be picking in the late 20s for the forseeable future, while our pick has a chance to be lottery (or mid teens) this year. At first glance the Chicago offer clearly looks superior, but upon further investigation I think the offers were closer than it might seem.

MagicRat
02-25-2011, 02:24 PM
Well he has a point with Rush, but I didn't know Lance and OJ were considered stoners?

People just love to hate the Pacers and want them to be bad boys... even 7 years after the brawl with all the milk drinking american role models we have had.

OJ got picked up for possession in HS, but charges were dropped when somebody else in the car later claimed it.

TheDon
02-25-2011, 02:27 PM
I just can't wait for the game tonight i'm done thinkin about what could have been. I didn't really like the trade to begin with so I guess i'm not as frustrated, but I wouldn't continually torture myself on something that's not happening.

wintermute
02-25-2011, 02:42 PM
This is how I reconstruct the events of the Mayo trade, and it all sort of makes sense in my mind. So anyway...

1. Grizz have just completed a deal for Battier, creating a logjam at 2/3. At the same time they needed an extra big. So they started looking at bigs they like, one of which is McBob.

2. Pacers and Grizz agree in principle to a trade involving Mayo for McBob and first. However, Memphis doesn't want to add any salary - part of their rationale for trading Mayo is to clear cap to re-sign Gasol and Randolph. Mayo for McBob straight up doesn't work though.

3. Pacers look for a third team to absorb salary that otherwise would have gone to Memphis. They find NOH willing to take Rush and Solo for a package of their excess bigs (probably Smith or Andersen, plus another player).

4. By now it's almost deadline. The teams put in the conference call, but while on hold NOH pulls out (as per Wells). No reason has been given for their pullout.

5. Pacers ask for extension to find another team to complete the deal. NOH's part is relatively minor after all - it shouldn't be too hard to recruit another team. Perhaps Pacers even succeeded, as per some reports. In any case, league says they're past the deadline.

Seems to me this timeline satisfactorily explains those reports we've had. Or maybe not.

avoidingtheclowns
02-25-2011, 02:44 PM
This is how Bucher reconstructs events
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/37104


Matt (Indy)
Give us the scoop, Ric: Exactly how and why did the Pacers/Grizzlies/Hornets trade fall through? Also, it sounds like it was Rush and Solo going to N.O., but who was coming FROM N.O.? How big of a set-back was this for all teams involved?

Ric Bucher (1:20 PM)
As I understand it, Brandon Rush was supposed to go to NO. NO wasn't putting anybody in the deal, if I have it correctly, they were merely offering cap room for Indy. I believe the problem arose because NO is league-owned and Mark Cuban already was upset that a team he owns 1/30th spent money to make the Carl Landry deal without his approval. I don't have the numbers in front of me, so I can't check on NO's cap situation, but as I understand it they were not putting anything into the deal. When the deal came into the league office, the league balked at NO being involved and it was too late to go back an construct the deal as straight between Memphis and Indy. But, as I understand it, it was the Pacers who wanted NO to be part of the deal and initially passed on the two-team deal.

CableKC
02-25-2011, 02:47 PM
This is how I reconstruct the events of the Mayo trade, and it all sort of makes sense in my mind. So anyway...

1. Grizz have just completed a deal for Battier, creating a logjam at 2/3. At the same time they needed an extra big. So they started looking at bigs they like, one of which is McBob.

2. Pacers and Grizz agree in principle to a trade involving Mayo for McBob and first. However, Memphis doesn't want to add any salary - part of their rationale for trading Mayo is to clear cap to re-sign Gasol and Randolph. Mayo for McBob straight up doesn't work though.

3. Pacers look for a third team to absorb salary that otherwise would have gone to Memphis. They find NOH willing to take Rush and Solo for a package of their excess bigs (probably Smith or Andersen, plus another player).

4. By now it's almost deadline. The teams put in the conference call, but while on hold NOH pulls out (as per Wells). No reason has been given for their pullout.

5. Pacers ask for extension to find another team to complete the deal. NOH's part is relatively minor after all - it shouldn't be too hard to recruit another team. Perhaps Pacers even succeeded, as per some reports. In any case, league says they're past the deadline.

Seems to me this timeline satisfactorily explains those reports we've had. Or maybe not.
I'm right there with you....but with all the odd questions here and there that are left unanswered....this whole fiasco/conspiracy is beginning to rank up there with whether we truly landed on the moon or not and whether there truly was shooter on the grassy knoll....we may simply never know.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 04:38 PM
I still think we were getting Dwest from NO, the rumor was that Rush and Solo were going there, I think it was Rush+Solo+ trade exception for Dwest.

I think the main issue for New Orleans to get out of this deal was because they don't want to remove him from CP3 and make him mad.

MainePacer31
02-25-2011, 04:44 PM
I don't want to read about this anymore.

Seconded.

BillS
02-25-2011, 04:54 PM
I still think we were getting Dwest from NO, the rumor was that Rush and Solo were going there, I think it was Rush+Solo+ trade exception for Dwest.

Great thought. Well, except for the whole "can't combine a trade exception with players" technicality.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 04:58 PM
Great thought. Well, except for the whole "can't combine a trade exception with players" technicality.

How about cash? can they do that?

The trade machine lets you combine players with exceptions by the way ;)

wintermute
02-25-2011, 04:59 PM
Also, the whole "Mayo to the Pacers" thing. If David West were involved, it would be the "David West trade", with Mayo as a footnote.

I have yet to see a shred of proof that either West or Landry were involved. We needed N.O.'s help to make it work financially. We weren't in a position to demand their good players.

wintermute
02-25-2011, 05:03 PM
How about cash? can they do that?

The trade machine lets you combine players with exceptions by the way ;)

Cash doesn't count for salary matching.

You must be misunderstanding the trade machine. You can't combine player + exception to match a larger salary.

Anyway, the trade machine data is still there. Go ahead and knock yourself out trying to construct a legal trade.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 05:03 PM
Also, the whole "Mayo to the Pacers" thing. If David West were involved, it would be the "David West trade", with Mayo as a footnote.

I have yet to see a shred of proof that either West or Landry were involved. We needed N.O.'s help to make it work financially. We weren't in a position to demand their good players.

I think is possible that NO didn't want to lose Dwest for nothing and was trying to trade him, not sure but is possible.

cdash
02-25-2011, 05:14 PM
David West has a lot more value than Rush/Solo I think.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 05:16 PM
David West has a lot more value than Rush/Solo I think.

I know, I still think that there has to be another player included.

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 05:20 PM
He can't name any players names.

He is saying that Memphis said that the deal was done when it wasn't

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 05:22 PM
He is saying that there was never a done deal because NO was out of the deal after 3 minutes

vnzla81
02-25-2011, 05:24 PM
He is saying that couple assets were coming back from NO and they were going to help in the future, JMV is trying to get him to say if they were big but he not saying anything.

cdash
02-25-2011, 05:25 PM
I think you are posting this in the wrong thread, but thank you.