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View Full Version : What Does the O.J. Mayo Trade Attempt Teach Us?



1984
02-24-2011, 07:52 PM
What does the O.J. Mayo trade attempt teach us? Seconds after hearing the trade had fallen apart, I began to ask what points have been made and what questions were raised.

Points Made:
[1] Brandon Rush is not a part of this franchise's future.
[2] Josh McRoberts is expendable.
[3] Mike Dunleavy will not wear a Pacers uniform next year.
[4] The Pacers believe a power forward will be available for sign or trade this summer.
[5] The Pacers believe they need to improve their offense.
[6] The Pacers expect very little from the draft.


Questions Raised:
[1] Paul George may not be the shooting guard of the [near] future. Does that mean he is the small forward of the future?
[2] Will Josh McRoberts be re-signed?

Obviously, many of these points and questions have been topics of debate for sometime on the board. However, if you look at the broken-trade carefully it adds closure to many of these questions. The most definitive conclusions, however, could only be made if we knew exactly what role O.J. Mayo was expected to have.

flox
02-24-2011, 07:57 PM
Thanks! I've been trying to say this all along.

I think we have to seriously consider that George is probably being considered a 3 for this team. Does this mean we sell high on Granger? I'm fascinated by this. I feel like this is a great opportunity to get into the minds of our front office-we don't get a lot of these.

CableKC
02-24-2011, 07:58 PM
What does today teach me?

It teaches me that someone should buy a huge clock and stick it on the wall of Bird's office. A nice "countdown" clock would be good too.

Heisenberg
02-24-2011, 07:58 PM
It teaches me that a lot of people still seem to think Josh is some scrub throw-in or something. The kid is solid. And he is in fact a kid, he's 23 years old (for a couple more days anyway), over a full year younger than Hansbrough. I don't know why most don't include him next to George and DC and Hibbert in our exciting young prospects or whatever you wanna call them.

If the franchise doesn't have plans to try and retain him I think it's a big mistake.

PacersAllDay
02-24-2011, 07:59 PM
I think it says we want someone who can score off the dribble in an iso situation.

Or was it just an attempt to buy low on someone with high potential?

dohman
02-24-2011, 08:00 PM
This only teaches us that bird was trying to get a high producing player for cheap. We were giving up assets that dont really mean anything to try to get a 18ppg scorer. That is all.

flox
02-24-2011, 08:01 PM
It teaches me that a lot of people still seem to think Josh is some scrub throw-in or something. The kid is solid. And he is in fact a kid, he's 23 years old (for a couple more days anyway), over a full year younger than Hansbrough. I don't know why most don't include him next to George and DC and Hibbert in our exciting young prospects or whatever you wanna call them.

If the franchise doesn't have plans to try and retain him I think it's a big mistake.

It's hard to include someone who doesn't have a contract for next year as a part of our future core.

We don't have any reassurances that he will even be resigned. It's better off to think that he won't be back, because if he resigns it's either a nice surprise or, if you're like me, another mistake.

Psyren
02-24-2011, 08:02 PM
It teaches us that our front office has poor time management skills.

PaceBalls
02-24-2011, 08:03 PM
We have learned that apparently TPTB will go to enormous lengths of propaganda, not limited to collusion with other teams, along with leaked reports to the media, just to create a fake trade to make us all feel good about how hard they are working the phones!

Ok, that's what some think.

Here is what I think TPTB think.

Rush is not part of the core. Josh is expiring and will cost too much, so why not try to get a superior player for next year. They like Tyler as the starter going forward. They like PG as the stater next year. Mike D probably won't be brought back, but maybe he would have been if the trade had gone through.

Look for a draft time Rush trade then maybe a Mike D new contract.

itzryan07
02-24-2011, 08:04 PM
we missed out on a home run deal

Psyren
02-24-2011, 08:05 PM
We have learned that apparently TPTB will go to enormous lengths of propaganda, not limited to collusion with other teams, along with leaked reports to the media, just to create a fake trade to make us all feel good about how hard they are working the phones!

Ok, that's what some think.

Here is what I think TPTB think.

Rush is not part of the core. Josh is expiring and will cost too much, so why not try to get a superior player for next year. They like Tyler as the starter going forward. They like PG as the stater next year. Mike D probably won't be brought back, but maybe he would have been if the trade had gone through.

Look for a draft time Rush trade then maybe a Mike D new contract.

To fall apart at the last second :laugh:

vnzla81
02-24-2011, 08:05 PM
Is teaching us that Larry Bird is not the right guy to make the deals with 30+ mil in cap space.

xBulletproof
02-24-2011, 08:08 PM
Is teaching us that Larry Bird is not the right guy to make the deals with 30+ mil in cap space.

Great. First Murphy, then Dunleavy. Now that Dunleavy is gone you'll never stop complaining about Larry Bird.

Might want to go to the doctor for this chronic issue of yours.

ChristianDudley
02-24-2011, 08:09 PM
Unfortunately we didn't get Mayo as we missed out BIG TIME here, but all of the points you made are right on. I agree with everything you brought up, and most of them are very eye-opening for us fans.

PacerGuy
02-24-2011, 08:11 PM
1) GrangerRanger is not a true Pacer fan.

2) We were prepared to revisit "smallball"

3) David Stern is a true believer in the old saying: "A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine." (plus he hates the Pacers)

vnzla81
02-24-2011, 08:12 PM
Great. First Murphy, then Dunleavy. Now that Dunleavy is gone you'll never stop complaining about Larry Bird.

Might want to go to the doctor for this chronic issue of yours.

Here we go again with the complaining police...................

Sandman21
02-24-2011, 08:14 PM
Don't deal with teams owned by the league as a third wheel?

itzryan07
02-24-2011, 08:15 PM
o well MD is out thats good

Psyren
02-24-2011, 08:16 PM
Don't deal with teams owned by the league as a third wheel?

Agreed.

I don't know what was going on there, but that seemed like a generally poor decision to work with the team that is owned by the NBA.

BlueNGold
02-24-2011, 08:23 PM
It attempts to teach us something we should all already know. Bird tried to pull off another trade. Whoop T doo. Why would he not try to improve the roster?

If you want to read something into it, go ahead. Maybe Granger is not the future. Maybe they sacrifice McBob and replace him with an upgrade at PF by using Granger as bait?

Here's your lineup:

Collison/Price
Mayo/Stephenson
George/Rush
Awesome PF/Hans
Hibbert/Murphy...

Psyren
02-24-2011, 08:27 PM
It attempts to teach us something we should all already know. Bird tried to pull off another trade. Whoop T doo. Why would he not try to improve the roster?

If you want to read something into it, go ahead. Maybe Granger is not the future. Maybe they sacrifice McBob and replace him with an upgrade at PF by using Granger as bait?

Here's your lineup:

Collison/Price
Mayo/Stephenson
George/Rush
Awesome PF/Hans
Hibbert/Murphy...

How the hell did we end up back with Murphy? :laugh:

hoosierguy
02-24-2011, 08:27 PM
I see no reason for the Pacers to make a trade.

The team is playing very well. McRoberts has a high ceiling and is not even close to reaching his full potential. He needs to be re-signed.

If Paul George continues to develop, then Granger may be expendable as long as the team gets a good SF/SG in return unless one is signed in FA.

BringJackBack
02-24-2011, 08:28 PM
What did we learn? I learned that Larry shouldn't have control over the whole trade deadline thing, but that's just me. Still feel good going forward though.

vnzla81
02-24-2011, 08:30 PM
What did we learn? I learned that Larry shouldn't have control over the whole trade deadline thing, but that's just me.

Be careful with the "complaining police", you can't say anything bad about Larry.........

BringJackBack
02-24-2011, 08:32 PM
:rolleyes: :sigh:

Will Galen
02-24-2011, 08:33 PM
It teaches us that our front office has poor time management skills.

Memphis has admitted it took a long time to come to a decision. So posters blame our front office for a deal not getting turned in on time.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Trophy
02-24-2011, 08:35 PM
Hope Bird keeps Mayo in mind in the offseason.

Kemo
02-24-2011, 08:35 PM
I posted this in the im done thread and feel it bears repeating


First , let me say I dont think we were getting mayo to keep him, but for a bigger trade on down the line for a 4 ..


I am more disappointed that McBob was the one on the trade block to be honest..

Granted , Mayo is definitely intriguing ,but Josh is a fan favorite as well as one of my top 4 favorite Pacers on this team..

I really hope that Josh doesn't feel like he was sucker-punched in the gut by a team that he literally BLEEDS BLUE AND GOLD for ..

I know when I first read the headline with McBob in the title , as a fan , I felt that way ..

I dunno, IMO when you have a team with a 9-3 record since the Vogel era started , and our guys playing so very well developing GREAT chemistry... YOU DONT F%^% that up... period...

I really hope this doesnt affect chemistry , and our chances at re-signing Josh... I hope it doesnt mean we dont plan on re-signing him either... I want to see him as a lifer here.. much like Foster has been.. As I see him only getting better and carving out his place in our core ..

Even with the trade not going down , although I feel relief , I also feel like the wind has been taken from our sails... Let's hope not..

CableKC
02-24-2011, 08:35 PM
Points Made:
[1] Brandon Rush is not a part of this franchise's future. - Sad but true.
[2] Josh McRoberts is expendable. - Given that we do not know what was going to come back from the 3rd Team and that Bird/Vogel appears to be traditionalists when it comes to Players in the Frontcourt....I'll give Bird the benefit of the doubt in the belief that he would have gotten back a Big Man and that he wouldn't have been happy with going "Small Ball for the rest of the season".
[3] Mike Dunleavy will not wear a Pacers uniform next year. - Hopefully you're right.
[4] The Pacers believe a power forward will be available for sign or trade this summer. - Very likely, but it was a given that Bird would have tried to get one a few hours ago...or during the offseason.
[5] The Pacers believe they need to improve their offense. - Not going to agree there....our offense is fine....I think that we need to improve our defense.
[6] The Pacers expect very little from the draft. - I think that if there was a Player that the Pacers wanted....even with sending out the 1st round pick that we had....we would have been in the position to buy back into the draft given the Capspace and willingness to take on any 2011-2012 Expiring Contracts.


Questions Raised:
[1] Paul George may not be the shooting guard of the [near] future. Does that mean he is the small forward of the future? I don't think so....we can still have a 3 SG/SF rotation where PG/Granger/Whoever? gets 28 to 30 minutes a game.
[2] Will Josh McRoberts be re-signed? I hope so, but I think that there will be a market for him.

ilive4sports
02-24-2011, 08:38 PM
Be careful with the "complaining police", you can't say anything bad about Larry.........

If you actually made a compelling argument then maybe it wouldn't be as bad.

What did it teach us? That Larry wanted a guy who could create his own shot right now. Thats about it. He tried to improve the team. Players understand this is a business. You guys are reading into this way too much.

Hibbert
02-24-2011, 08:40 PM
What does the O.J. Mayo trade attempt teach us? Seconds after hearing the trade had fallen apart, I began to ask what points have been made and what questions were raised.

Points Made:
[1] Brandon Rush is not a part of this franchise's future.
[2] Josh McRoberts is expendable.
[3] Mike Dunleavy will not wear a Pacers uniform next year.
[4] The Pacers believe a power forward will be available for sign or trade this summer.
[5] The Pacers believe they need to improve their offense.
[6] The Pacers expect very little from the draft.


Questions Raised:
[1] Paul George may not be the shooting guard of the [near] future. Does that mean he is the small forward of the future?
[2] Will Josh McRoberts be re-signed?

Obviously, many of these points and questions have been topics of debate for sometime on the board. However, if you look at the broken-trade carefully it adds closure to many of these questions. The most definitive conclusions, however, could only be made if we knew exactly what role O.J. Mayo was expected to have.

Wow, really? You got all this from today? All I thought it meant was that we were getting a replacement for Dun since he will be out. It means that the Pacers were on the phones and active but just couldnt get a deal done even though this one almost happened. If the right offer presented itself before 3pm today than Bird would of pulled the trigger no matter what player on our team it was. Had this deal gone through whos to say we didnt already know Josh would of came back with us anyways? So a mid 1st for Mayo? I can live with that but it never happened so oh well.

vnzla81
02-24-2011, 08:41 PM
If you actually made a compelling argument then maybe it wouldn't be as bad.

What did it teach us? That Larry wanted a guy who could create his own shot right now. Thats about it. He tried to improve the team. Players understand this is a business. You guys are reading into this way too much.

And this is your compelling argument?




http://www.lafferty.ca/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/fail-24.jpg

xBulletproof
02-24-2011, 08:46 PM
And this is your compelling argument?

How about the fact that making deadline trades on a timer has nothing to do with spending money in free agency. The lack of direct correlation between the two idea's makes your complaint a pretty epic fail.

This obviously ignores the reports that a different team backed out at the last second. Which would coincide with Memphis owner saying we couldn't get it together. We were facilitating the 3rd team being involved, and they backed out at the last second. It all pretty much adds up, and it doesn't really add up to being Birds fault as much as the 3rd team just changed their mind.

Talk about fail.

IndySDExport
02-24-2011, 08:46 PM
Memphis has admitted it took a long time to come to a decision. So posters blame our front office for a deal not getting turned in on time.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Real GM says the Hornets nixed it a the last second.

I think its amusing the the rumored grumblings about the Pacers front office are coming from David Kahn and now the general manager of the Grizzlies. Clearly two respected managers and franchises we should be listening to. No?

Young
02-24-2011, 09:05 PM
I think Bird is trying to take the next step which is get a player who can create his own shot. With the new rules this has became even more important. Bird almost stole Mayo like he stole Collison.

I know many are down on Bird and co. about not getting this done even if it wasn't their fault. The thing you have to remember is that the Pacers are still in excellent shape for this year. In fact keeping Josh is probably better for them this year.

Also the Grizzles are still going to look to trade Mayo this off season. They still have a log jam on the perminter and they want the cap space. Now maybe other teams try to get Mayo this summer. Regardless I think the Pacers still have a good shot at getting him this summer even if it costs them a little more than what it would have today.

The future is still bright here. The Pacers are in a great position to make the playoffs and still in great positions to continue improving this team for the future. I'm thankful for that and I wouldn't want to dump Bird at this point. I'm still excited for the playoffs!

Pacersalltheway10
02-24-2011, 09:10 PM
It taught us that bird is actually trying to get things improved more it seems like. Mayo would have been so sweet as both a player here or trade bait for a top PF. All I could see was Larry bird announcing the trade and mayo holding up a pacers jersey when everybody thought he would go to the bulls and such. And then Watching him go lights outs in his Pacers debut. I could just feel it. Mayo would have thrusted us past Philly and in a race with NY and Carmelo Nd mayo battling it out in the ECF every year for the next 8 years ( ok that sentence was a huge stretch but still...)

Sandman21
02-24-2011, 09:10 PM
I think Bird is trying to take the next step which is get a player who can create his own shot. With the new rules this has became even more important. Bird almost stole Mayo like he stole Collison.

I know many are down on Bird and co. about not getting this done even if it wasn't their fault. The thing you have to remember is that the Pacers are still in excellent shape for this year. In fact keeping Josh is probably better for them this year.

Also the Grizzles are still going to look to trade Mayo this off season. They still have a log jam on the perminter and they want the cap space. Now maybe other teams try to get Mayo this summer. Regardless I think the Pacers still have a good shot at getting him this summer even if it costs them a little more than what it would have today.

The future is still bright here. The Pacers are in a great position to make the playoffs and still in great positions to continue improving this team for the future. I'm thankful for that and I wouldn't want to dump Bird at this point. I'm still excited for the playoffs!

Give Bird a chance to play the waiting game. Remember when DC was going to cost us more than just Troy?

pwee31
02-24-2011, 09:14 PM
I think the Mayo trade attempt teaches us to stay away from all electronics from 2:30-3:30ET on the day of the trade deadline

speakout4
02-24-2011, 09:14 PM
Teaches us that BRush has been rumored to be trade-bait 2 years in a row now. Didn't they see yesterday's game-winner? It doesn't appear that TPTB see him in the pacer's future.

The pacers didn't seem to mind losing McRob either. I don't see him in any rush to resign with a team that just traded him. Why would he return so he can be traded again?

I'm still fine with Bird even with this ridiculous event.

pacer4ever
02-24-2011, 09:16 PM
Teaches us that BRush has been rumored to be trade-bait 2 years in a row now. Didn't they see yesterday's game-winner? It doesn't appear that TPTB see him in the pacer's future.

The pacers didn't seem to mind losing McRob either. I don't see him in any rush to resign with a team that just traded him. Why would he return so he can be traded again?

He already has his option picked up for next year

BringJackBack
02-24-2011, 09:17 PM
The only things that I have a big problem with today:

-We had three players to trade. Mike, TJ, and Rush. None of them were traded.

-Paul Millsap and Gerald Wallace were available. We didn't pursue.

-Everyone screwing up at 3:01. This was the most painful, but I'm over it now.

speakout4
02-24-2011, 09:18 PM
He already has his option picked up for next year
There is a huge gulf between trading a guy and not picking up his option. He is still cheap and can do some things but he is not exactly what the pacer FO wants.

Yes they appeared to be in a great hurry to do that .

Sparhawk
02-24-2011, 09:18 PM
Still have the offseason. I wonder if Bird will still try to swing a trade to get Mayo? Maybe a sign and trade with McBob.

I just feel totally drained after the last 48-hours. Not to mention the highs of a trade and then finding out it didn't go through. Completely drained.

Sandman21
02-24-2011, 09:20 PM
-Paul Millsap and Gerald Wallace were available. We didn't pursue.
That we are aware of. Doesn't mean Bird didn't go after them.

pacer4ever
02-24-2011, 09:21 PM
The only things that I have a big problem with today:

-We had three players to trade. Mike, TJ, and Rush. None of them were traded.

-Paul Millsap and Gerald Wallace were available. We didn't pursue.

-Everyone screwing up at 3:01. This was the most painful, but I'm over it now.

Mike Wells said we did persue Gerald Wallace on Twitter

Major Cold
02-24-2011, 09:24 PM
-Paul Millsap and Gerald Wallace were available. We didn't pursue.

How the hell do you know that?


Seriously folks you act like you could run this franchise better. There are things that we know nothing about.

With limited knowledge comes limited judgment.

BringJackBack
02-24-2011, 09:24 PM
@ P4E: Should have went at it harder. We could have offered much better than Pryzbilla and two late first rounders.

wintermute
02-24-2011, 09:25 PM
How do you figure Millsap was available? The only rumor regarding him is that the Jazz were getting a lot of calls for him (and rightly so).

BringJackBack
02-24-2011, 09:27 PM
How the hell do you know that?


Seriously folks you act like you could run this franchise better. There are things that we know nothing about.

With limited knowledge comes limited judgment.

If we would have went after any of them there would have been some ramblings maybe..?

Common sense tells you that I can't run a franchise. Anyone should know that.

wintermute
02-24-2011, 09:27 PM
@ P4E: Should have went at it harder. We could have offered much better than Pryzbilla and two late first rounders.

What would you have offered?

cdash
02-24-2011, 09:28 PM
The only things that I have a big problem with today:

-We had three players to trade. Mike, TJ, and Rush. None of them were traded.

-Paul Millsap and Gerald Wallace were available. We didn't pursue.

-Everyone screwing up at 3:01. This was the most painful, but I'm over it now.

How do you know this? According to Mike Wells, we did pursue Gerald Wallace, we just couldn't make a deal. I'm fine with that. We have a plan, and Bird isn't going to compromise that. I think he's done pretty well so far as GM of this team. I haven't loved his drafting, but it's turned out pretty well, and he has done everything you could have asked of him with the limited resources he's had. His blemishes are holding onto O'Brien too long (which I can give him a pass for--I feel like that was financially motivated) and his gaffes at the trading deadline, which may or may not actually be his fault.

Heisenberg
02-24-2011, 09:29 PM
Pretty sure Wells said we also contacted Utah about Jefferson/Milsap. See if I can dig it up.

Major Cold
02-24-2011, 09:30 PM
@ P4E: Should have went at it harder. We could have offered much better than Pryzbilla and two late first rounders.


P4E is who?

pacer4ever
02-24-2011, 09:30 PM
Pretty sure Wells said we also contacted Utah about Jefferson/Milsap. See if I can dig it up.

ya it was in his interview with JMV i think

pacer4ever
02-24-2011, 09:31 PM
P4E is who?

it is directed at me but that isnt what i said on twitter. He is just telling me what he thinks about not getting Wallace. I think the Bobcats got a good deal for Wallace

TheDon
02-24-2011, 09:34 PM
I learned that a lot of people forgot to take their angry pills today.

BringJackBack
02-24-2011, 09:34 PM
A first, Lance, Ford, Mike while taking back one of their other contracts (Diaw, Thomas) that they want to get rid of for incentive to do the deal more.

Of course I'm not a GM so it's just w/e. If I had to I'd throw in Josh or Tyler too if they said they'd hang it up if we didn't throw one of them in.

pacer4ever
02-24-2011, 09:35 PM
A first, Lance, Ford, Mike while taking back one of their other contracts (Diaw, Thomas) that they want to get rid of for incentive to do the deal more.

Of course I'm not a GM so it's just w/e. If I had to I'd throw in Josh or Tyler too if they said they'd hang it up if we didn't throw one of them in.

Thomas and Diaw arent bad contracts to them or at least they are some what prductive Tomas 4 sure. Matt Carrol and Desga Diop now ur talking about bad contracts

BringJackBack
02-24-2011, 09:35 PM
I see that I shouldn't have said Millsap. My fault.

BillS
02-24-2011, 09:43 PM
I leatned that Pacers management is in a "lose-lose" situation with too many people.

I learned that if the right deal comes along you have to give good players to get good players. You aren't going to make a good deal with bench garbage.

I learned that a trade sometimes requires you to offer or give up someone you might normally want to keep, but if that guy is the one the trading partner wants you might have to go for it. In other words, trading someone does not always mean you don't have a use for them, just that you have more use for the incoming player.

Oh, wait - I already knew that last one. Just thought I'd try to remind people.

pathil275
02-24-2011, 09:44 PM
Memphis has admitted it took a long time to come to a decision. So posters blame our front office for a deal not getting turned in on time.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

They are stuck with Mayo, so it only makes sense to say it was a hard decision to make him available. Tomorrow you'll read that Indiana had a hard time making up their minds to trade McRoberts.

pacer4ever
02-24-2011, 09:45 PM
I leatned that Pacers management is in a "lose-lose" situation with too many people.

I learned that if the right deal comes along you have to give good players to get good players. You aren't going to make a good deal with bench garbage.

I learned that a trade sometimes requires you to offer or give up someone you might normally want to keep, but if that guy is the one the trading partner wants you might have to go for it. In other words, trading someone does not always mean you don't have a use for them, just that you have more use for the incoming player.

Oh, wait - I already knew that last one. Just thought I'd try to remind people.

I was about to say it took you this long to learn these things . Then I read the fnal sentence. :laugh:

Wylder1324
02-24-2011, 09:46 PM
Mind Blowing how hot and cold some people on here are. First everyone hates Larry and blames him for everything that is going wrong with having Murph, Dun, and Tinsley's crippling deals on the books then he spins JO's expiring deal into Roy Hibbert and a stop-gap PG in Ford.....as time went on he garnered praise for this as Roy has developed. Bayless was turned into Rush & McRoberts....both of whom now have more value than Bayless..... Next it was Murphy hate.....he spun that into Darren Collison....more praise....eventually that wasn't enough and he lets O'Brien go in favor of Vogel.....we are 9-3 under Vogel and the young guns are getting a chance and it looks like things are looking up.....enter this trade dead-line deal for Mayo...

First of all none of us have a clue as to what was going on behind closed doors so its absolutely ridiculous to react so strongly to any of it.....can we be disappointed and discuss possibilities ? Of course. But to see so many people "jumping ship" and losing their minds over it accusing our front office or Larry or anybody for that matter of being at fault is laughable.....we had a proposed deal that involved 3 teams one of which pulled out.....McRob for Mayo straight up doesn't work salary wise....if the other teams pulls out at the last second there isn't much you can do and if we weren't able to nab someone like Landry from NO (likely who it was) then it wouldn't make sense to move Josh.....at the end of the day Im happy we didn't make the trade I really like Josh and Brandon both under Vogel I want to see what they both have to offer the rest of the season before giving up on either and then this off-season see whats what.

Wylder1324
02-24-2011, 09:51 PM
Not real sure why everyone is clamoring for Gerald Wallace either.....he and Danny don't fit well together.....neither can play the SG spot, neither would be happy coming off the bench, and neither are keen on spending much if any time at PF.....would have been a bad play unless we could have gotten him for an expiring and scrub.....even then Im not sure it made financial sense....MAYBE as a tradable asset.

DEEman
02-24-2011, 09:52 PM
Mind Blowing how hot and cold some people on here are. First everyone hates Larry and blames him for everything that is going wrong with having Murph, Dun, and Tinsley's crippling deals on the books then he spins JO's expiring deal into Roy Hibbert and a stop-gap PG in Ford.....as time went on he garnered praise for this as Roy has developed. Bayless was turned into Rush & McRoberts....both of whom now have more value than Bayless..... Next it was Murphy hate.....he spun that into Darren Collison....more praise....eventually that wasn't enough and he lets O'Brien go in favor of Vogel.....we are 9-3 under Vogel and the young guns are getting a chance and it looks like things are looking up.....enter this trade dead-line deal for Mayo...

First of all none of us have a clue as to what was going on behind closed doors so its absolutely ridiculous to react so strongly to any of it.....can we be disappointed and discuss possibilities ? Of course. But to see so many people "jumping ship" and losing their minds over it accusing our front office or Larry or anybody for that matter of being at fault is laughable.....we had a proposed deal that involved 3 teams one of which pulled out.....McRob for Mayo straight up doesn't work salary wise....if the other teams pulls out at the last second there isn't much you can do and if we weren't able to nab someone like Landry from NO (likely who it was) then it wouldn't make sense to move Josh.....at the end of the day Im happy we didn't make the trade I really like Josh and Brandon both under Vogel I want to see what they both have to offer the rest of the season before giving up on either and then this off-season see whats what.
Easy to say, you live in freakin Hawaii man. Come and stay for a couple of months in raining Netherlands and you would already have jumped the ship after 1 year O'Brien ;)

Wylder1324
02-24-2011, 09:57 PM
Haha believe me man I was dying under JOB's tyrannical regime as much as the next guy.....I just think too many people unrealistically place all the blame on Larry's back.....a lot more going on behind closed doors than we presume to know.

NuffSaid
02-24-2011, 09:59 PM
Depending on who the Pacers were to acquire from New Orleans, I could have supported this trade on the surface of it.

OJ Mayo can certainly play ball. He apparently has some personsal issues he needs to address, but I think he's coachable. Pair his talents alongside Paul George and Granger, and I'd say we have a solid upgrade at either SG or SF. The trade proposal involving Jmac surprises me. He's playing very well, and the Jmac/Psycho-T duo is working nicely. Why break that up now?

ndcoltsnpacers
02-24-2011, 10:02 PM
They are stuck with Mayo, so it only makes sense to say it was a hard decision to make him available. Tomorrow you'll read that Indiana had a hard time making up their minds to trade McRoberts.

Actually their GM made that quote when he still thought they were trading him away.

Will Galen
02-24-2011, 10:09 PM
How the hell do you know that?


Seriously folks you act like you could run this franchise better. There are things that we know nothing about.

With limited knowledge comes limited rush to judgment.

Fixed.

immortality
02-24-2011, 10:17 PM
It teaches you shouldn't make trades just because everyone else is, did you bow down to peer pressure in school ?

Will Galen
02-24-2011, 10:20 PM
They are stuck with Mayo, so it only makes sense to say it was a hard decision to make him available. Tomorrow you'll read that Indiana had a hard time making up their minds to trade McRoberts.

They didn't say it was a hard decision to make, they said the decision took a long time to make, emphasis is on the time, in as much as the deal went though a minute late. That means if they hadn't taken so much time making a decision the deal would have went though.

Then New Orleans compounded things by backing out. It was just a deal that ran out of time to get done. Yet the Bird haters blame him.

smj887
02-24-2011, 10:27 PM
I haven't had much time to read all of the discussion, and still have mixed feelings about this trade. So I'll say this and hope it's not an echo - has anyone considered whether this trade was just a knee-jerk reaction to losing Dunleavy? I know he's been garbage lately but the front office and Vogel still seemed to believe he was a high-impact scorer. I wonder if this was just Bird and whoever else going into panic mode.

It just doesn't make sense to trade away a very young PF, who regardless of your opinion on his talent level, has done well and has been starting for us. I don't think I've seen anyone dispute that Hansbrough is better off the bench, but suddenly the FO was comfortable throwing him into the starting unit? So that Posey/Solo could pick up some minutes? No way that improves the team, especially when it's not our offense that has been a problem. Every year we make these ridiculous half-assed pushes for the playoffs, and now in the year that we actually have a legitimate shot to get the 7th or 8th seed, we sacrifice the short-term future (either going small or playing Solo more) for potential long-term gains?

I hate to read too much into things, but I almost take this as the front office still seeing Dunleavy as a critical part of the team. With all of the contradictions this trade would have made compared to what the team has said in the past about wanting to win now, it feels like they freaked out at the prospect of Rush being the starting SG for the rest of the season and wanted to patch it up, hoping Hansbrough could give us 35 solid minutes a night and that playing Posey/Solo in spot minutes wouldn't kill us.

This is all going off what we know for sure, I know Rush was getting shipped to N.O. but I haven't seen anyone mention what we were taking back. It might make sense if it was a big, but with all the talk of maintaining chemistry, it seems odd to shake up both the starting and second unit with a trade.

xIndyFan
02-24-2011, 11:56 PM
it seems the 'solution' is stephenson, george, granger, hansbrough and hibbert and one of price or collison.

mcbobs, rush, djones, posey and foster are part of the 'process'.

TJ, dunleavy, sjones and JOB are part of the past. rush needs to be careful or next summer he will be joining them.

Eleazar
02-25-2011, 12:51 AM
I learned that Bird, Morway, and the majority of this board still don't understand the importance of having players like McRoberts on this team.

Nature boii
02-25-2011, 12:54 AM
i learn that the pacers are trying to improve....

pizza guy
02-25-2011, 01:14 AM
This teaches us that the FO does in fact realize that the team we currently have is not a contender, and we still need to upgrade talent.

A lot of us on PD have been watching these players (Rush, JMac, Hans, George, Granger, Hibbert) as they grow and struggle, and when you add in the adversity of having JO'B as a coach, it's made us all get attached to these guys. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, as fans, it's completely expected.

But for some reason, we have a bunch of people who honestly believe McBeard is the new Lamar Odom, Hibbert is the next Wilt, and George is the next Jordan. I like these guys a lot, and I would've been a little bummed that Josh was traded because he's fun to watch.

But OJ Mayo? For Josh? I mean, c'mon, the difference in talent is undeniable.

Bird realizes that this team is set up right now to be a very good team that surrounds a great player. As is, we're a good team that will get beaten by great players, and that's not good enough.

9-3 under Vogel is great. I'm loving it. But we're still a sub .500 team. Maybe with Vogel coaching the whole year, we're over .500, but we're still in the 6-8th seed race. We're still not good enough to challenge CHI, MIA, or BOS, or ORL in the playoffs. We have a lack of talent.

And before anyone goes crazy about Paul George, let me be clear. Potential DOES NOT EQUAL talent. Potential is "maybe talent." We have a lot of potential, I agree. But we need proven, known talent.

Mayo is a good player, and he would have fit into what we're doing. He's still leaning on potential himself somewhat -- but he's got more talent than Josh RIGHT NOW. Which is why I wish this trade would've gone through. Mayo is better now, and will only get better. Josh may improve, but he's never going to reach the same level. It was an obvious trade to make for us. It would have been another steal equal to Murphy for DC, in my opinion.

I hope the heck that Mayo will still be on the table at the end of the year, and we can make an offer they like. What I worry about it other teams that have seen this and now think, "if they would trade him for McRoberts, they'd definitely take ________" and we lose out on him again.

Mayo may not be the ultimate star we need, but he is a clear upgrade in talent. Maybe Bird gets lucky and finds another deal (a better deal?) in the offseason. Who knows? No one saw this deal coming.

I'm still frustrated like crazy that this didn't get finished. I'm going to the game tomorrow, so hopefully it'll be a good enough game that it makes me forget all this nonsense from today.

PacersPride
02-25-2011, 01:21 AM
i learned even LEGEND misses a buzzer beater once in a while.. i still trust him going forward.

i also learned the nba hates the indiana pacers. the deal for landry should not have went to the hornets, an nba owned team. cuban said it was BS the nba allowed the hornets to add salary when the owners were paying the difference.

then today the nba team nixed the deal at the last possible moment.

as i said, i trust bird. i dont think the ojmayo deal sinks this franchise at all, wings are a dime a dozen for the most part. mcbob i hope mgmt wouldve brought back.

maybe rushs value goes up as the season goes along and something better comes up down the road.

Hicks
02-25-2011, 01:30 AM
It shows me that the Pacers realize you have to gamble sometimes to get more talented. Lance showed me that, this shows it yet again. I agree with it. It's risky, but a necessary risk you have to take.

It shows me the Pacers still don't believe we're going to cut it with the talent that we have, and to go along with that, offensively, specifically, that means being able to create our own offense in a tight game/situation; we need more 'go-to-ability' offensively.

joeshow31
02-25-2011, 01:39 AM
Let's not forget the cap room we are going to have. While we may not get anyone huge off the market it shows that the books will look better than they have in years.

PacersPride
02-25-2011, 01:47 AM
learned who we might have been after from the hornets?? just random but this woulda been sweet.




http://indiana.sbnation.com/indiana-...iana-pacers-do

Option Two: Deal again with New Orleans and pick up David West
While Bird has had his share of bad personnel moves during his tenure as team president, one of his best moves was the trade this summer for point guard Darren Collison. The PG position has been a weakness for the Pacers pretty much since Mark Jackson left after the 2000 season. Since then, a revolving door of players named Jamaal Tinsley, Travis Best, Anthony Johnson, Jarrett Jack, and the before-mentioned T.J. Ford have stepped in and tried to fill the void.

Right now, it seems Collison fits the bill as a true point guard for this franchise going forward.

Collison made a name for himself last year as a backup in New Orleans with the Hornets. When starting point guard Chris Paul went down with an injury last year, Collison stepped in and stepped up. One of the teammates in New Orleans that Collison seemed to have great chemistry with was forward David West.

West is a seven-year pro who has decided to opt out of his final year with the Hornets, a franchise going nowhere quite fast. West is currently averaging 19 points and 7 boards a game. He's an established star with multiple All-Star game appearances, and he has built a reputation as a leader in the locker room.

Trade Suggestion- Pacers trade T.J. Ford and Brandon Rush for David West and Jarrett JackBenefits: The Pacers get a legit post presence in West, who can then take some of the pressure of Roy Hibbert. West also has good chemistry with Collison, allowing the Pacers to run more pick-and-roll sets within their offense. The Hornets trim salary, closing the books on West (who clearly wants out of NO) and getting rid of Jarrett Jack's bloated contract. They take on the talented but seemingly troubled Brandon Rush who could, perhaps, benefit from a change of scenery. Rush has two years left on his deal and, let's be honest, we don't even know if the Hornets will exist as a franchise two years from now.

LA_Confidential
02-25-2011, 01:59 AM
This botched trade attempt taught me that you cant fleece em' all.

Hell of a try though.

CableKC
02-25-2011, 02:45 AM
The only things that I have a big problem with today:

-We had three players to trade. Mike, TJ, and Rush. None of them were traded.

-Paul Millsap and Gerald Wallace were available. We didn't pursue.

-Everyone screwing up at 3:01. This was the most painful, but I'm over it now.
How do u know Bird didn't pursue Milsap or Crash?

croz24
02-25-2011, 03:01 AM
seems to be a theme with bird...we really liked this player but are disappointed we couldn't get a deal done.

BKK
02-25-2011, 03:36 AM
Well I can't say I am not disappointed the deal did not go through but I won't blame our front office for that. Frankly we have NO idea what really happened... And as always in this type of situation everybody rejects the failure on the guy standing next just not to look like the idiot one. The involvement of NO clearly was interesting although risky and may have cost us the whole thing but once again we'll never now!

Now I don't think it's absolutely over and talks could start again come draft time. If Memphis really is interested in McBob we could probably manage a S&T which would facilitate the matching salaries factor. For once I'm willing to use our draft pick as trade bait especially for a player of Mayo's caliber. Anyway if such a deal was to happen I'd feel more comfortable doing it after this season... As it stands now it would have only translated their 2-3 logjam to us (positions that are already stacked for us) and thined our frontline (which we don't need).

To be honest I am very surprised Chicago did not snag OJ... He would have been the missing piece for them. Good for us in this perspective.

CableKC
02-25-2011, 04:04 AM
One quick thought.....I learned that the FO realizes something that I have been saying for the longest time and why I was pushing for a trade for Iggy.....at least for now and the immediate future....we do not have a Starting quality SG.

Many have always said that upgrading our Starting PF position is really important....but upgrading our Starting SG spot is a very close 2nd.

One thing that I really want to push now is for PG to play at least 30 minutes a game for the rest of the season...even if he does not start. The reason is because I want the FO to adequately evaluate whether we truly need to aggressively pursue a Starting SG in the offseason...or if we can simply let PG be that guy.

DEEman
02-25-2011, 04:29 AM
This teaches us that the FO does in fact realize that the team we currently have is not a contender, and we still need to upgrade talent.

A lot of us on PD have been watching these players (Rush, JMac, Hans, George, Granger, Hibbert) as they grow and struggle, and when you add in the adversity of having JO'B as a coach, it's made us all get attached to these guys. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, as fans, it's completely expected.

But for some reason, we have a bunch of people who honestly believe McBeard is the new Lamar Odom, Hibbert is the next Wilt, and George is the next Jordan. I like these guys a lot, and I would've been a little bummed that Josh was traded because he's fun to watch.

But OJ Mayo? For Josh? I mean, c'mon, the difference in talent is undeniable.

Bird realizes that this team is set up right now to be a very good team that surrounds a great player. As is, we're a good team that will get beaten by great players, and that's not good enough.

9-3 under Vogel is great. I'm loving it. But we're still a sub .500 team. Maybe with Vogel coaching the whole year, we're over .500, but we're still in the 6-8th seed race. We're still not good enough to challenge CHI, MIA, or BOS, or ORL in the playoffs. We have a lack of talent.

And before anyone goes crazy about Paul George, let me be clear. Potential DOES NOT EQUAL talent. Potential is "maybe talent." We have a lot of potential, I agree. But we need proven, known talent.

Mayo is a good player, and he would have fit into what we're doing. He's still leaning on potential himself somewhat -- but he's got more talent than Josh RIGHT NOW. Which is why I wish this trade would've gone through. Mayo is better now, and will only get better. Josh may improve, but he's never going to reach the same level. It was an obvious trade to make for us. It would have been another steal equal to Murphy for DC, in my opinion.

I hope the heck that Mayo will still be on the table at the end of the year, and we can make an offer they like. What I worry about it other teams that have seen this and now think, "if they would trade him for McRoberts, they'd definitely take ________" and we lose out on him again.

Mayo may not be the ultimate star we need, but he is a clear upgrade in talent. Maybe Bird gets lucky and finds another deal (a better deal?) in the offseason. Who knows? No one saw this deal coming.

I'm still frustrated like crazy that this didn't get finished. I'm going to the game tomorrow, so hopefully it'll be a good enough game that it makes me forget all this nonsense from today.
:citizenkane:

I tried to give my opinion about this big FAIL that happend yesterday. But could not have said it like you just did. You are so spot on!

wintermute
02-25-2011, 04:48 AM
To be honest I am very surprised Chicago did not snag OJ... He would have been the missing piece for them. Good for us in this perspective.

They did try! They offered Brewer and 3 picks (2 first, 1 second) but Grizz turned it down in favor of McBob and a first. McBob must have his fans - I wouldn't have said that he's worth a first and a second. Guess we were undervaluing him all along.

Here's the link:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-0225-trade-bulls-heat-chicago-20110224,0,1581666.story

Gremz
02-25-2011, 05:09 AM
I think it teaches us that there is a decent level of restraint upon making deals. Granted one was to be made, but I for one am glad that this day wasn't wasted by throwing assets away via a bad trade or two.

I'd still like some of our assets moved (2011 pick(s), Brandon) but there's still a good chance to utilize them properly if we're patient (see Collison trade).

I am intrigued to see now if we do indeed put this cap space to use via Signings or perhaps wait off and take on some small deals to gain more assets, but at least all of our options are still intact.

Still mad that this deal didn't go down though.

MyFavMartin
02-25-2011, 07:09 AM
Might revisit this in the off-season with a S&T of McBob to the Griz for Mayo and whoever we draft?

grace
02-25-2011, 10:24 AM
you'll never stop complaining about Larry Bird.

Might want to go to the doctor for this chronic issue of yours.

I already tried that. The only cure is to have Larry removed.

sportfireman
02-25-2011, 10:53 AM
Didn't teach me a thing. I'm not in the Front Office.

Skaut_Ech
02-25-2011, 11:56 AM
It taught me that there is hope. I gotta be honest. I haven't posted much since last year. (I even won the "post more often award). After 20+ years of being a Pacer's fan, after some really low, lows, the reign of JOB brought me to my knees. I just couldn't take it any more. I essentially walked away. I cut donw my game viewing. I didn't take the time to post. I just couldn't take it anymore.

This trade attempt gave me hope. :cry:

Dumping JOB, then making a trade attempt like this? Phew! I got tired of the lip service, then no substantial change. For the first time in a long time, I have a raised eyebrow when it comes to this team. I'm not a huge Mayo fan, but I cannot deny his talent. Grabbing a #3 overall drafted player with the scoring punch of Mayo may have been huge and is the kinda tough decision move, or at least attempt, I like to see.

I think there's been a lot of self delusion. We've gotten this sort of stockholm symdrome about some of the players. We've been held captive so long, we've started to sympathize with our captors. I like Josh, but he is never going to be anything more than an in their prime Songaila/Matt Bonner/Craig Smith type, in terms of impact. (I know there is a large contingent who disagree). This deal smelled to me as a last minute opportunist type thing. Will it come again? Who knows. Guys like OJ and Terrence Williams look to be in a bad place, so maybe so. In the meantime, I like to think we'll start being more ballsy. This attempt makes me hope so.

joeyd
02-25-2011, 12:05 PM
I think that the front office realized that unless your ducks are all in a row, trading for Mayo could leave you in a real pickle! Ha!