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View Full Version : Glad Josh and Tyler will keep their minutes



McKeyFan
02-23-2011, 08:42 AM
Assuming no trade will be made by the deadline, I was surprised by my reaction when the trade rumors emerged about us possibly picking up Landry.

A year ago, I would have been all over it. This time, I was hoping it wouldn't go through.

What is seems to mean, for me, is that our power forward position is in pretty good shape.

It's not that it couldn't get better. But there is something going on emotionally. Those two guys bring a style and flavor to the game, a character to our new team, that is just pretty interesting and exciting.

And I didn't want someone like Carl Landry to mess it up.

Indra
02-23-2011, 08:51 AM
Yeah, I'm really liking this team right now. Other than the obvious guys (TJ, Posey, Solo, Dun, Dahntay, maybe Rush) I'd be sad to see us trade away any of these guys. I just watched tonight's game and they were really having a blast out there together. They were smiling into and out of timeouts, after buckets, at the free throw line. These guys love playing together and the product on the court really shows it. They're making backdoor passes and running off little plays within the play, and that comes from practicing together.

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 09:00 AM
I think the more significant point in Wells blog is this. A point I agree with

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/2011/02/23/landry-was-there-but-now-hes-about-to-vanish/

The Pacers would like to add a starting power forward at some point – by the trade deadline or next summer – because they feel Tyler Hansbrough and Josh McRoberts, who will be a free agent this summer, are better coming off the bench.

PacerHound
02-23-2011, 09:11 AM
I could not agree more than I do with McKey Fan. I do not know what people are wanting out of the PF position. Combine their collective numbers each night and what more do you want?

I am growing a little sick of all the teams that are trying to "buy" themselves an NBA title by accumulating all-star players. Is that what we want to do? Everyone hates Miami now. Is that what we want in Indy?
If so, just go out and buy yourself a title, then I want no part of it. To me that just stinks.

Give me a bunch of blue collar players that like each other, have fun, play well together, are developing, are not stinking the place up, giving it all they got, and I will take them over Miami any day of the week.

I was very disappointed to learn from Mike Well's column (blog) that the Pacers are still looking for a "starting power forward," very disappointed. I guess the desire is to become Miami.

LetsTalkPacers
02-23-2011, 09:11 AM
ill be pissed if they dont resign McBob

Mackey_Rose
02-23-2011, 09:18 AM
I agree.

I've been a huge Carl Landry fan since his days at Purdue, but bringing him in right now would feel like a lateral move to me. I just don't think he provides enough of a difference between what we already have.

That position has never been a weakness for this team when Josh and Tyler have gotten the minutes. From a purely basketball perspective, there are only three guys out there who have been mentioned as possibilities that I think are not lateral moves, and are actually vertical improvements. Of course all these guys individually are going to be equal in cost, or significantly more expensive than keeping both Josh and Tyler.

Josh Smith: I don't think he is really available, but he is the one guy I think who would be a perfect fit on this team. He's the type of player I could envision Josh McRoberts becoming if he gets more comfortable with himself offensively. I think Josh is a great fit, and he's like a better version of him right now.

David West: I completely understand why everybody likes him. If he decides not to exercise his player option, which is far from a given, he will get plenty of offers. We can offer as much money as anybody else, but will he want to come here? I doubt it, but you never know. How he would mesh with Roy defensively would be a question mark as well.

Zach Randolph: He's an extremely skilled offensive player, but he isn't much defensively, and I don't think he really fits in well next to Roy. More than anything though, I don't think he is an option for us purely because of the legal risk involved. The guy did/does finance a drug ring in our city. Allegedly.

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 09:24 AM
That position has never been a weakness for this team when Josh and Tyler have gotten the minutes.

Ok, but I strongly believe in order for the Pacers to become a top team a 55 win team they need to add a player better than Josh or Tyler. maybe they can win 45 games with Josh and Tyler, but not be a 55 win team, not compete with the Magic, Bulls, Celtics, Heat in a playoff series - one after the other.

I agree with you though Laundry isn't the answer. He would be a nice addition, but even if we acquire him I would still be saying we need someone better than Carl, Tyler and Josh

McKeyFan
02-23-2011, 09:29 AM
I think the more significant point in Wells blog is this. A point I agree with

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/2011/02/23/landry-was-there-but-now-hes-about-to-vanish/

The Pacers would like to add a starting power forward at some point – by the trade deadline or next summer – because they feel Tyler Hansbrough and Josh McRoberts, who will be a free agent this summer, are better coming off the bench.
If that's the case, then I hope they can find a way for Josh to back up Roy.

I want Josh and Tyler both on the team. In fact, I like the idea of them on the floor together.

As I said before, I am now emotionally invested in the type of style and character they bring to the team. Don't want to lose that.

graphic-er
02-23-2011, 09:29 AM
David West would not any any worse than McRoberts is defensively. West is a good passer too. McRoberts is not that great on defense. He struggles to really get out and challenge shots in a meaning full way. Just last night he let Blatch make him look stupid all night long. How is it that a guy can jump out of the gym on offense and barely leave his feet on defense?

David West would be a great pick up, regardless of age. I think he would strongly consider Indiana for 3 reasons.
1. DC is here and he played well along side DC last year.
2. Danny Granger. As much as CP3 is talented and dominate point guard. West has never played next to a real scorer.
3. Hibbert. West has never played next to a true center that is a low post threat.

Aside CP3, this Pacers team is much more talented and deep than his Hornets team's over the years aside from that one postseason where they went to the West finals.

He would be stupid not to sign here. What other team can offer this and actually afford his services? There are no contenders out there who can sign him. If he absolutely wants to win a championship it will be hard to do so here in Indiana with how stacked the East is becoming, and he may want to stay out West. But if he signs with any team in the East it would have be Indiana.

Mackey_Rose
02-23-2011, 09:34 AM
Ok, but I strongly believe in order for the Pacers to become a top team a 55 win team they need to add a player better than Josh or Tyler. maybe they can win 45 games with Josh and Tyler, but not be a 55 win team, not compete with the Magic, Bulls, Celtics, Heat in a playoff series - one after the other.

I agree with you though Laundry isn't the answer. He would be a nice addition, but even if we acquire him I would still be saying we need someone better than Carl, Tyler and Josh

Obviously we are not at the level of those teams right now. We need a better player, but it doesn't need to be a power forward necessarily. In order to compete with the top of the conference, we need a better best player. It doesn't matter what position that guy plays.

Both guard positions are more of a weakness for this team than power forward.

Mackey_Rose
02-23-2011, 09:37 AM
David West would not any any worse than McRoberts is defensively. West is a good passer too. McRoberts is not that great on defense. He struggles to really get out and challenge shots in a meaning full way. Just last night he let Blatch make him look stupid all night long. How is it that a guy can jump out of the gym on offense and barely leave his feet on defense?

David West would be a great pick up, regardless of age. I think he would strongly consider Indiana for 3 reasons.
1. DC is here and he played well along side DC last year.
2. Danny Granger. As much as CP3 is talented and dominate point guard. West has never played next to a real scorer.
3. Hibbert. West has never played next to a true center that is a low post threat.

Aside CP3, this Pacers team is much more talented and deep than his Hornets team's over the years aside from that one postseason where they went to the West finals.

He would be stupid not to sign here. What other team can offer this and actually afford his services? There are no contenders out there who can sign him. If he absolutely wants to win a championship it will be hard to do so here in Indiana with how stacked the East is becoming, and he may want to stay out West. But if he signs with any team in the East it would have be Indiana.

You mean aside from the best point guard/floor general in the league? Why would he want to leave that exactly?

You are really underrating Chris Paul and the impact he has.

Mackey_Rose
02-23-2011, 09:41 AM
I posted this a couple months ago in regards to David West:

However, while it seems likely to me, it isn't even a given that he will be a free agent after this season. He has a $7.5 million option for next year. He may decide that it will be a better choice to exercise that option and ride out his current deal, especially with the impending lockout, and then see what he can get as a free agent in the 2012 off-season.

There is also the Chris Paul issue. If I'm David West, I try to maximize my time playing alongside CP3, at all costs. Talk about a value booster. Maybe CP3 decides to bolt New Orleans in the 2012 off-season. Who can blame him if he does? But I think West would be better off staying in New Orleans for one more season. Once Paul makes his decision, and either takes off for New York, LA, or insert other glitzy destination here, or decides to ride the storm out (too soon?) in New Orleans, then West can go about his business of cashing in.

I have no idea what he will do. Just wanted to point out that, it is far from a certainty that David West will even be on the market, after this season. He might have the toughest player option decision in history. There are so many unknown variables that he will have to consider.

McKeyFan
02-23-2011, 09:43 AM
Obviously we are not at the level of those teams right now. We need a better player, but it doesn't need to be a power forward necessarily. In order to compete with the top of the conference, we need a better best player. It doesn't matter what position that guy plays.

Both guard positions are more of a weakness for this team than power forward.
I am thinking our best move is to obtain a top rate shooting guard/wing for a short rental. A year or two. I wouldn't even mind getting one just for the remainder of this year.

Like the Monta Ellis rumor.

This gives Paul George a year or two to break out. Besides replacing Foster as he declines, the rest of our players could continue to grow in to all the quality rotation guys we need.

DC/AJ
X/PG/Rush
Granger/PG/Dahntay
Josh/Tyler
Hibbert/Foster/x

graphic-er
02-23-2011, 09:45 AM
You mean aside from the best point guard/floor general in the league? Why would he want to leave that exactly?

You are really underrating Chris Paul and the impact he has.

Because the "best point guard/floor general in the league" won't be a Hornet for long, and N.O. doesn't seem to want to pay West what he is worth. The writing is on the all in N.O. CP3 doesn't want to stay there. They aren't capable to reloading that team to compete with the best of the west, and they don't even have an owner. Which means the NBA isn't going to fork over the money to make N.O. a contender. The NBA is going to gut that team to make it attractive to a new buyer.

Mackey_Rose
02-23-2011, 09:47 AM
I am thinking our best move is to obtain a top rate shooting guard/wing for a short rental. A year or two. I wouldn't even mind getting one just for the remainder of this year.

Like the Monta Ellis rumor.

This gives Paul George a year or two to break out. Besides replacing Foster as he declines, the rest of our players could continue to grow in to all the quality rotation guys we need.

DC/AJ
X/PG/Rush
Granger/PG/Dahntay
Josh/Tyler
Hibbert/Foster

I'm probably in the minority here, but I love Monta Ellis for this team. He's obviously weak defensively, and him and Collison in the backcourt together is a nightmare (probably not much worse than what we have now though), but he is the kind of perimeter scorer who can get his own shot, that we are missing right now.

I think that is this team's biggest weakness. A big time scorer who can create for himself.

You hope Paul George becomes that guy, but Monta is already there.

Mackey_Rose
02-23-2011, 09:49 AM
Because the "best point guard/floor general in the league" won't be a Hornet for long, and N.O. doesn't seem to want to pay West what he is worth. The writing is on the all in N.O. CP3 doesn't want to stay there. They aren't capable to reloading that team to compete with the best of the west, and they don't even have an owner. Which means the NBA isn't going to fork over the money to make N.O. a contender. The NBA is going to gut that team to make it attractive to a new buyer.

Paul will at least be there another season. West still has a deal for another season, he could easily just wait another year before becoming a free agent.

This is the worst season to be a free agent anyway.

graphic-er
02-23-2011, 09:53 AM
Paul will at least be there another season. West still has a deal for another season, he could easily just wait another year before becoming a free agent.

This is the worst season to be a free agent anyway.

Yea that could happenan I agree with you that this is a bad year for Free Agents due to the CBA. But not exactly true for DWest. If he waits another year. His earning potential will be much less just because of his age. He'll be 32 when he starts his new contract after waiting a year.

McKeyFan
02-23-2011, 09:54 AM
You hope Paul George becomes that guy, but Monta is already there.
Yep. I like the idea of a short rental for two reasons. It allows PG to move into the slot, and it allows us to shed ourselves of someone like Ellis if his poor defense does become a deal breaker.

Any others out there? Kevin Martin, but he is the softest player I've watched.

Arenas would have been good for a short rental, but he's taken.

Eric Gordon would be perfecto. Doubt he's available.

Could Devin Harris play the 2? How's his defense?

Mackey_Rose
02-23-2011, 09:55 AM
Yea that could happenan I agree with you that this is a bad year for Free Agents due to the CBA. But not exactly true for DWest. If he waits another year. His earning potential will be much less just because of his age. He'll be 32 when he starts his new contract after waiting a year.

So you're willing to pay him huge money, long-term as a 31 year old, but when he hits 32...

graphic-er
02-23-2011, 10:14 AM
So you're willing to pay him huge money, long-term as a 31 year old, but when he hits 32...

Not Exactly. Whats huge money in this case? I believe it was stated that he is looking for a contract that pays him 10-12 Million a year. Mike Dunleavy makes that much. Don't you think DWest is worth more than Dunleavy? And yes I realize Dunleavy is over paid.

Mackey_Rose
02-23-2011, 10:30 AM
Not Exactly. Whats huge money in this case? I believe it was stated that he is looking for a contract that pays him 10-12 Million a year. Mike Dunleavy makes that much. Don't you think DWest is worth more than Dunleavy? And yes I realize Dunleavy is over paid.

I don't think you get more for your dollar by paying West $10-12 million individually than you do paying McRoberts and Hansbrough $10-12 million together.

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 10:40 AM
Obviously we are not at the level of those teams right now. We need a better player, but it doesn't need to be a power forward necessarily. In order to compete with the top of the conference, we need a better best player. It doesn't matter what position that guy plays.

Both guard positions are more of a weakness for this team than power forward.

I assume in another year or two that George and Danny will be locked in at the wing positions. And I do think they are good enough - will be good enough (I think geroge will be our best player) for us to be a 55 win team.

So you must be looking at point guard. You are probably correct there.

Will it be easier to get a better power forward than either Josh or Tyler or a better point guard than Collison. More importantly which would have more impact. I think it will be easier to acquire a better PF.

DaveP63
02-23-2011, 10:47 AM
I am thinking our best move is to obtain a top rate shooting guard/wing for a short rental. A year or two. I wouldn't even mind getting one just for the remainder of this year.

Like the Monta Ellis rumor.

This gives Paul George a year or two to break out. Besides replacing Foster as he declines, the rest of our players could continue to grow in to all the quality rotation guys we need.

DC/AJ
X/PG/Rush
Granger/PG/Dahntay
Josh/Tyler
Hibbert/Foster/x

I think this is the way to go. As a rule, the guy that closes out games, the "killer" if you will, is usually not a PF. Larry knows we need that guy and I'm sure if we don't get him in the next 48 hours, we'll get him this summer. We'll get something else, too. I'm sure if Larry says he's got his eye on a couple of guys to help this team, he's not lying...Just might not happen as soon as we'd like.

I've got nothing to complain about when it comes to the PF tandem. Would I like them to be more assertive at times? Do I wish Tyler could jump flat footed? Sure, but you can watch a game and think they're not doing anything. They're not "dominating". Then you look at the box score (like last night) and go holy crap! How did they get those stats? Maybe we've got it better than we think...

LA_Confidential
02-23-2011, 10:50 AM
First, I want Paul George Starting, Right Now. I really didnt like the Idea to begin with but im completely sold that this kid is the real deal.

OK, Back to the topic.

We need a PF. David West is ideal and he will opt out for long term security ie Richard Jefferson w/Spurs.

Someone stated above, the reasons he would come to Indy and Ive got one more to add. James Posey. They've played together and are both Xavier Alum.

One more thing to add, this makes me cringe but Ive gotta say it. We need to re-sign Mike Dunleavy. Oh God, What am I saying? :puke:

He belongs with the goon squad. AJ, Dahntay, Mike, Tyler and Josh

BRushWithDeath
02-23-2011, 10:54 AM
First, I want Paul George Starting, Right Now. I really didnt like the Idea to begin with but im completely sold that this kid is the real deal.

OK, Back to the topic.

We need a PF. David West is ideal and he will opt out for long term security ie Richard Jefferson w/Spurs.

Someone stated above, the reasons he would come to Indy and Ive got one more to add. James Posey. They've played together and are both Xavier Alum.

One more thing to add, this makes me cringe but Ive gotta say it. We need to re-sign Mike Dunleavy. Oh God, What am I saying? :puke:

He belongs with the goon squad. AJ, Dahntay, Mike, Tyler and Josh

You should have stopped after the first paragraph.

HickeyS2000
02-23-2011, 11:04 AM
How is it that a guy can jump out of the gym on offense and barely leave his feet on defense?

I believe it was Bill Russel that said the best defenders never leave their feet.

Pacers4Life
02-23-2011, 11:19 AM
Like the Monta Ellis rumor.

DC/AJ
X/PG/Rush
Granger/PG/Dahntay
Josh/Tyler
Hibbert/Foster/x

Last I heard, you have to give something to get something. We traded them Ford and.. Solo for this?

Sorry, I want Monta Ellis as much as anyone.. but as of now I'm too invested in THIS team anyways.. So regardless the (A.J.) price wouldn't be right.. except this one you've come up with here..

dohman
02-23-2011, 11:47 AM
We do not need a power forward. Either Josh or Tyler has a good game every night. If we pay them 12 million together it's cheaper than paying a star and a backup 15 million. Besides that lets us cheer for the under dogs. We need a shooting guard in the worst possible way.

Whiskeyjim
02-23-2011, 08:27 PM
The military is famous for fighting the last war. That is what Bird is doing when he tries to trade for Landry.

He needs a upper 10-15% class PG and SG. That is what the team needs. Especially a true shooter.

This team is totally different now that they are playing selfless ball, speeding up the game. That Wizzard game was awesome team basketball, and we see far too little of it in the NBA.

Lastly, I struggle to understand why it is good strategy to make a trade before the new CBA comes out, when it could significantly alter the structure of the game. Bird worked hard to reduce total payroll while improving the team. He did that. Why give any of it away if he doesn't have to?