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View Full Version : So you think maybe Roy really didn't like JOB's coaching???



Peck
02-23-2011, 12:39 AM
@MikeWellsNBA
Mike Wells
Roy with another subtle shot at O'Brien: "No more of this run down the court in the first three seconds and jack up 3’s."


@MikeWellsNBA
Mike Wells
More Hibbert: "That’s for the birds right there. We’re out here trying to win games now.”

Couple of things.

1. Obviously Roy really didn't like Jim.

2. It's reallly hard to defend the fact that Jim's offense is not just jacking up 3's when his own players say it is.

cdash
02-23-2011, 12:45 AM
Yeah, you really get the impression that Roy and Obie were really close, for sure.

Can't say I disagree with him. I wonder what Vogel thinks of Roy's little potshots to the media about O'Brien. Obviously Obie and Vogel are tight and still communicate often, I wonder if it irks Vogel at all?

pizza guy
02-23-2011, 12:59 AM
Can't bother Vogel that much.


We're changing the identity.

We don't take bad shots anymore.

xBulletproof
02-23-2011, 01:09 AM
Since Vogel took over;

17.6 points, 7.7 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, 50.3 FG%

He played quite similar to this when the year started. Then it went downhill, and came back the second O'brien was gone. That pretty much told me everything I needed to know.

Pacers4Life
02-23-2011, 01:09 AM
Glad to see JOB gone that's fornsure.. But Roy really does need to be stronger mentally.

Heisenberg
02-23-2011, 01:14 AM
Might get bashed for it, and I'm sure Roy was very frustrated playing under JOB, but it's been over three weeks. Let it go.

Lord Helmet
02-23-2011, 01:16 AM
I mean that was our offense during O'Brien's time as coach.

Indiana Three Pointers

DemonHunter1105
02-23-2011, 01:49 AM
Might get bashed for it, and I'm sure Roy was very frustrated playing under JOB, but it's been over three weeks. Let it go.

I am not saying I know anymore than the rest of you, but reporters sometimes ask questions looking for these type of answers. For all we know, Wells could have asked him how things have changed the past few weeks. Or why we seem to be doing so much better under Vogel. I wouldn't take his comments too far either way until we know in what context they were actually said.

gummy
02-23-2011, 01:57 AM
The sum of the player comments post-JOB makes how they felt about him pretty clear. No need for much context at this point, imo.

DemonHunter1105
02-23-2011, 02:06 AM
I don't doubt that he didn't like JOB. I am just saying we don't know if he brought it up on his own or if he was goaded into answering it.

sportfireman
02-23-2011, 02:35 AM
I don't doubt that he didn't like JOB. I am just saying we don't know if he brought it up on his own or if he was goaded into answering it.

I understand what you're saying but at some point you have to step back and be mature about it. You don't have to answer unless you want to answer. No one is formulating Roy's answers but Roy. He is constantly bringing up his old coach.... exp.

Question: "how are things different about your game"
Answer: "well i've been working alot down low, working on my foot work, working with my back to the basket. just trying to get better"

Roy: "well since coach is gone i can focus on my strengths instead of shooting 20 ft jumpers, i'm working in the paint."

ilive4sports
02-23-2011, 02:49 AM
I understand what you're saying but at some point you have to step back and be mature about it. You don't have to answer unless you want to answer. No one is formulating Roy's answers but Roy. He is constantly bringing up his old coach.... exp.

Question: "how are things different about your game"
Answer: "well i've been working alot down low, working on my foot work, working with my back to the basket. just trying to get better"

Roy: "well since coach is gone i can focus on my strengths instead of shooting 20 ft jumpers, i'm working in the paint."

what if the question was, "what is the offense doing differently since Coach Vogel took over?"

what would be so wrong about his answer?

vnzla81
02-23-2011, 06:10 AM
Shame on you Roy Hibbert for been sarcastic, extremist, a lier, a hater and have a legion against Jim ......................

Day-V
02-23-2011, 06:13 AM
If Roy Hibbert says it, who am I to disagree?

BringJackBack
02-23-2011, 06:14 AM
Mark Boyle also replied to the "Subtle shot at O'Brien" tweet and he said:

Mark_J_Boyle Mark Boyle
@
@MikeWellsNBA not that subtle
3 hours ago

Shade
02-23-2011, 07:29 AM
I hate to say "I told 'ya so..."

Oh, who am I kidding...I love to say it. :D

Shade
02-23-2011, 07:34 AM
I understand what you're saying but at some point you have to step back and be mature about it. You don't have to answer unless you want to answer. No one is formulating Roy's answers but Roy. He is constantly bringing up his old coach.... exp.

Question: "how are things different about your game"
Answer: "well i've been working alot down low, working on my foot work, working with my back to the basket. just trying to get better"

Roy: "well since coach is gone i can focus on my strengths instead of shooting 20 ft jumpers, i'm working in the paint."

Screw that. Jim sure as hell wasn't mature about it when he blasted his players in the media, Roy included.

It's not Roy's fault that Jim sucks.

Major Cold
02-23-2011, 08:07 AM
I agree with the sentiment. And I am glad the offense has changed. But eventually we need to move on.

And that be on the reporters asking the questions. So I figure we will hear these statements till the end of the year or until Bird tells them to move on.

docpaul
02-23-2011, 08:12 AM
I wonder if it irks Vogel at all?

That one of his players states fact? :)

McKeyFan
02-23-2011, 08:22 AM
@MikeWellsNBA
Mike Wells
Roy with another subtle shot at O'Brien: "No more of this run down the court in the first three seconds and jack up 3’s."


@MikeWellsNBA
Mike Wells
More Hibbert: "That’s for the birds right there. We’re out here trying to win games now.”

Couple of things.

1. Obviously Roy really didn't like Jim.

2. It's reallly hard to defend the fact that Jim's offense is not just jacking up 3's when his own players say it is.
Actually, nothing in the tweets, and nothing that has been said by anyone (IIRC) points to them not liking JOB himself. Clearly, they did not like his coaching.

I'm thinking there's a difference. When JOB was fired, Danny referred to him as "a friend." The other day Josh made an offhand comment about his good relationship with JOB.

What I'm getting at, and I've mentioned this before, is that, despite the negative comments in the media, I have wondered all along if Jim didn't have a certain aspect to his personality where behind closed doors he won over the players on a personal level.

People are complex. JOB is complex enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did have a side to his personality that the players responded to, maybe some kind of old school, fatherly, pastoral, caring, believing in your future kind of role.

Not only would it explain some of the comments I mentioned, it would help explain why Bird took so d@mn long to fire him.

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 08:33 AM
@MikeWellsNBA
Mike Wells
Roy with another subtle shot at O'Brien: "No more of this run down the court in the first three seconds and jack up 3’s."


@MikeWellsNBA
Mike Wells
More Hibbert: "That’s for the birds right there. We’re out here trying to win games now.”

Couple of things.

1. Obviously Roy really didn't like Jim.

2. It's reallly hard to defend the fact that Jim's offense is not just jacking up 3's when his own players say it is.


I hesitate to do this. But why not. Obviously Roy hated Jim as his coach - OK fine. But I think some of these comments by Roy are unfair.

Is Roy suggesting that before the coaching change they were not out there trying to win games? I think that is a crock of you know what. So is Roy really saying they weren't trying to win games before.

Peck, one minor correction. You are mis-characterizing Roy's comments in regards to the 3's. No where did Roy say that the offense was just jacking up threes. I mention that because many in this forum has used that same phrase incorrectly.

I think Roy needs to either shut-up or do a long interview maybe with Conrad Brunner where everything is transcribed so he can describe his thoughts.
I think these little digs are beneath Roy. He is a better person than that, at least I thought he was

McKeyFan
02-23-2011, 08:37 AM
I hesitate to do this. But why not. Obviously Roy hated Jim as his coach - OK fine. But I think some of these comments by Roy are unfair.

Is Roy suggesting that before the coaching change they were not out there trying to win games? I think that is a crock of you know what. So is Roy really saying they weren't trying to win games before.

Peck, one minor correction. You are mis-characterizing Roy's comments in regards to the 3's. No where did Roy say that the offense was just jacking up threes. I mention that because many in this forum has used that same phrase incorrectly
UB, I think Roy's point can be interepreted on a strategic level, not necessarily effort.

Before, because the strategy was fatally flawed, they couldn't win games. Now they can.

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 08:41 AM
UB, I think Roy's point can be interepreted on a strategic level, not necessarily effort.

Before, because the strategy was fatally flawed, they couldn't win games. Now they can.

And that is why if Roy is going to say anything he needs to do a long interview and go into detail what he is trying to say. Because to me he is saying they weren't trying to win before. I want to get to the bottom of that because that is IMO about the worst thing you can say. I know some of you will think I am misnterpreting what Roy is saying - but that is his fault for these little digs which are open to misinterpretation. Either tell us exactly what you mean or just be quiet

vnzla81
02-23-2011, 08:42 AM
So now UB is telling Roy to shut up? Wow

McKeyFan
02-23-2011, 08:44 AM
And that is why if Roy is going to say anything he needs to do a long interview and go into detail what he is trying to say. Because to me he is saying they weren't trying to win before. I want to get to the bottom of that because that is IMO about the worst thing you can say. I know some of you will think I am misnterpreting what Roy is saying - but that is his fault for these little digs which are open to misinterpretation. Either tell us exactly what you mean or just be quiet
I hear ya, but its hard to blame Roy for being part of Generation Text.

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 08:48 AM
So now UB is telling Roy to shut up? Wow

Only about the former coach. Either come out and tell us in depth what he evidently is going to tell us in these little digs or just don't say anything

purdue101
02-23-2011, 08:49 AM
I'm sure the players are almost baited into the discussion with questions pertaining to their increased production over the past 10 games - mainly Roy/DC/Hans. I guess I can't blame them for being honest if they believe they've always had this in them however the coaching hampered the production.

Even so, I'm ready to move past JOB. It was a terrible 3 1/2 years that I would like to forget. Too many good things going on with this team right now to be worred about water under the bridge.

vnzla81
02-23-2011, 08:57 AM
Only about the former coach. Either come out and tell us in depth what he evidently is going to tell us in these little digs or just don't say anything

Roy was coached by this clown for 3 years don't you think is fair for him to vent once in a while? He couldn't say anything before.

This is pretty much what I've been saying about people telling us to never talk about Jim again because he is gone, and this are the same people that told us not to complaint about him before, so my question again is, when in the F you guys want players and fans to complaint about this clown?

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 09:04 AM
Roy was coached by this clown for 3 years don't you think is fair for him to vent once in a while? He couldn't say anything before.

This is pretty much what I've been saying about people telling us to never talk about Jim again because he is gone, and this are the same people that told us not to complaint about him before, so my question again is, when in the F you guys want players and fans to complaint about this clown?

I'll repeat for the 3rd or 4th time what I want (since you are asking) I want either Roy to shut up in regards to Jim or come out and do a long interview about Jim where he gets in depth and explain a little better what his thoughts are.

if Roy is being asked all the time by the reporters, that is even more reason to do one long interview (clear the air) and then move on and tell reporters I am through discussing Jim. That is the classy way to do it

naptownmenace
02-23-2011, 09:12 AM
Since Vogel took over;

17.6 points, 7.7 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, 50.3 FG%

He played quite similar to this when the year started. Then it went downhill, and came back the second O'brien was gone. That pretty much told me everything I needed to know.

I read and immediately thought - Rik Smits.

Those numbers look very similar to Rik during his prime. I'd love to see more rebounds but since Danny and Josh are gobbling up more rebounds under Vogel, this is acceptable.

Further proof that the problem wasn't the players but the system they were pigeon-holed into.

troyc11a
02-23-2011, 09:20 AM
I hesitate to do this. But why not. Obviously Roy hated Jim as his coach - OK fine. But I think some of these comments by Roy are unfair.

Is Roy suggesting that before the coaching change they were not out there trying to win games? I think that is a crock of you know what. So is Roy really saying they weren't trying to win games before.

Peck, one minor correction. You are mis-characterizing Roy's comments in regards to the 3's. No where did Roy say that the offense was just jacking up threes. I mention that because many in this forum has used that same phrase incorrectly.

I think Roy needs to either shut-up or do a long interview maybe with Conrad Brunner where everything is transcribed so he can describe his thoughts.
I think these little digs are beneath Roy. He is a better person than that, at least I thought he was

You make some good points here but I wonder if there is not more to it. For example, we were told that Bird/O'Brien disagreed on whether this team was good enough to make the playoffs. Is it then possible that OBie was coaching in a way to prove his point rather than to win? These guys are all extremely bull-headed - more so than the average Joe.

Secondly, am I the only one who felt it "appeared" Obie was coaching this way "trying" to get fired? If he didnt think they were going to make the playoffs, why not get paid and set at home. His substitution patterns and decisions almost seemed as if he didnt want to win. Sort of reminded me of how Larry Brown would sabotage games so he would get fired. I am not accusing, I am merely stating that it looked that way. I understand looks can be deceiving.

Kegboy
02-23-2011, 09:21 AM
I think these little digs are beneath Roy. He is a better person than that, at least I thought he was

And all the little digs Jimmy did over the years were okay?

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 09:28 AM
And all the little digs Jimmy did over the years were okay?

so two wrongs make a right

Kegboy
02-23-2011, 09:33 AM
so two wrongs make a right

No, but it's hypocritical for you to defend Jimmy all this time, then lambaste Roy for doing the same thing.

McKeyFan
02-23-2011, 09:38 AM
so two wrongs make a right
I don't see them as digs.

If it was personal, it would be dig. "I hated that guy." "He was terrible."

Roy's comments are on the coaching methods and strategies.

MagicRat
02-23-2011, 09:40 AM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hjHUP9Sta9I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 09:59 AM
No, but it's hypocritical for you to defend Jimmy all this time, then lambaste Roy for doing the same thing.

haven't been doing much defending of Jim lately. In fact I'll give you a dollar for every post you find where I defended Jim since he was fired.

In this thread, I've been critical of Roy.

I have not defended Jim in this thread

gummy
02-23-2011, 10:20 AM
haven't been doing much defending of Jim lately. In fact I'll give you a dollar for every post you find where I defended Jim since he was fired.

In this thread, I've been critical of Roy.

I have not defended Jim in this thread

I would guess that he's referring to the fact that you have, several times in the past, defended JOB making harsh comments about the players in the media. But now you're trotting out the two wrongs making a right thing, which makes it sound like you didn't agree with JOB's comments after all. That's confusing (at least to me).

joeyd
02-23-2011, 10:21 AM
I mean that was our offense during O'Brien's time as coach. Indiana Three Pointers

Yes, and it didn't seem to bother Hibbert when he was having success early on in the season...I agree...let it go.

purdue101
02-23-2011, 10:25 AM
Was JOB a horrid coach? Yes. Did he hamper Roy's development/game? Yes. Does Roy have a right to be upset? Yes. Should he continue to rehash in the media? No. Just be the bigger person and move on.

As I said, too many good things going on with this team to dwell on the nightmare that is JOB. Let's move on.

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 10:25 AM
I would guess that he's referring to the fact that you have, several times in the past, defended JOB making harsh comments about the players in the media. But now you're trotting out the two wrongs making a right thing, which makes it sound like you didn't agree with JOB's comments after all. That's confusing (at least to me).

I did not agree with Jim going public with his comments. In each case Jim should not have said it.

But is is a matter of degree. I thought the reaction in this forum was way over the top - that is what I disagreed with. That is what I argued against. My point was, Jim didn't say anything that bad to cause such an uproar in the forum.

BRushWithDeath
02-23-2011, 10:46 AM
Actually, nothing in the tweets, and nothing that has been said by anyone (IIRC) points to them not liking JOB himself. Clearly, they did not like his coaching.

I'm thinking there's a difference. When JOB was fired, Danny referred to him as "a friend." The other day Josh made an offhand comment about his good relationship with JOB.

What I'm getting at, and I've mentioned this before, is that, despite the negative comments in the media, I have wondered all along if Jim didn't have a certain aspect to his personality where behind closed doors he won over the players on a personal level.

People are complex. JOB is complex enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did have a side to his personality that the players responded to, maybe some kind of old school, fatherly, pastoral, caring, believing in your future kind of role.

Not only would it explain some of the comments I mentioned, it would help explain why Bird took so d@mn long to fire him.

Not exactly. He did have an alright personal relationship with most of the players but not nearly for the reason highlighted. The players thought he was funny. Jim was extremely sarcastic with a very dry sense of humor. Often times that humor could seen as belittling to the person Jim was making fun of but it was still funny. There was one or two players who very much resented this behavior but mainly because they were often times the butt of his jokes.

Peck
02-23-2011, 10:47 AM
I did not agree with Jim going public with his comments. In each case Jim should not have said it.

But is is a matter of degree. I thought the reaction in this forum was way over the top - that is what I disagreed with. That is what I argued against. My point was, Jim didn't say anything that bad to cause such an uproar in the forum.

Adamantly disagree over the irrelevant statement.

You'll notice I never really said anything when he was making some of his comments about Roy.

But the irrelevant comment was just to much. You NEVER disparage a person no matter what profession you are in who is giving you their all and in fact doing a good job when doing it.

Jim was simply mad because he knew the question really wasn't about Josh, he knew that in reality the question was more along the lines of why is Troy Murphy playing so much and Josh so little. His response to that was a pre-emptive strike against the efforts of McRoberts and it blew up in his face as it should have.

Pacers#1Fan
02-23-2011, 11:00 AM
By now I think it's pretty clear that not too many (if any) of the players enjoyed playing under Obie just by the way they have preformed as of late. Not only do you see the stats rising and the number in the win column going up but you see a new sense of, and I'm honestly not trying to be cheesy here, passion and pride in everyone's game. Not just in their game either but their body language, swagger, and the reactions of the players on the bench. To me, with having such a young team, that is the most important part of this season.

flox
02-23-2011, 11:36 AM
Hibbert's comments are irrelevant.

Peck
02-23-2011, 11:38 AM
Hibbert's comments are irrelevant.

Nice

Since86
02-23-2011, 12:33 PM
I'll repeat for the 3rd or 4th time what I want (since you are asking) I want either Roy to shut up in regards to Jim or come out and do a long interview about Jim where he gets in depth and explain a little better what his thoughts are.

if Roy is being asked all the time by the reporters, that is even more reason to do one long interview (clear the air) and then move on and tell reporters I am through discussing Jim. That is the classy way to do it


I don't know why he needs to come out and do a lengthy interview to explain what he means. All you need to do is read this forum for the past few years.

Everything we've said has came out to be true. I would think our explanations would actually get verified by this fact, but unless it comes straight from the horses mouth I guess you just won't believe it.

I can tell you exactly what Roy means, and I have been telling you that for quite some time. But then again, you needed a player to make the comment that the offense was designed to jack threes before you believed that too. I don't think it's the problem of the people talking, but rather the ones that are "listening."

indyaway
02-23-2011, 01:28 PM
The defenders of JOB will continue to support him until Hibbert literally goes on the witness stand, is sworn in, wears a polygraph, and has his testimony subject to cross examination from JOB himself so that we get both sides of the story.

The fact that the Pacers are winning, and even in their losses competing, at a clip never seen under JOB and that multiple Pacers themselves have blatantly called out what everyone with functioning eyes could see for years still won't get the point across that JOB was not some coaching/statistical genius but rather a a fill-in coach whose offensive strategy could basically be summarized in a 140 character Tweet.

grace
02-23-2011, 02:27 PM
so two wrongs make a right

With no punctuation I'm not quite sure which side you're on. ;)

Kid Minneapolis
02-23-2011, 03:08 PM
UB, why would Roy have to have a sit-down in-depth interview to air out his frustrations with O'B's system? I don't think that's necessary at all, and in fact, would be a LeBron-esque drama stage.

Don't get that logic at all. If you're demanding that of Roy now, then you should've demanded O'B to sit down and air out all his "incidents" and comments when he was still coach, and yet you gave him a flyer. You're still giving him a flyer... it's actually pretty funny to watch.

You'll come around eventually... it reminds me of "Artest-apologist" Syndrome that ran amok a few years ago on these boards, except this appears to be "J'Ob-apologist syndrome".

Is there a vaccine for this?

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 03:15 PM
The defenders of JOB will continue to support him until Hibbert literally goes on the witness stand, is sworn in, wears a polygraph, and has his testimony subject to cross examination from JOB himself so that we get both sides of the story.

The fact that the Pacers are winning, and even in their losses competing, at a clip never seen under JOB and that multiple Pacers themselves have blatantly called out what everyone with functioning eyes could see for years still won't get the point across that JOB was not some coaching/statistical genius but rather a a fill-in coach whose offensive strategy could basically be summarized in a 140 character Tweet.

I am not supporting anyone and I've never called anyone a genius

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 03:18 PM
UB, why would Roy have to have a sit-down in-depth interview to air out his frustrations with O'B's system? I don't think that's necessary at all, and in fact, would be a LeBron-esque drama stage.

Don't get that logic at all. If you're demanding that of Roy now, then you should've demanded O'B to sit down and air out all his "incidents" and comments when he was still coach, and yet you gave him a flyer. You're still giving him a flyer... it's actually pretty funny to watch.

You'll come around eventually... it reminds me of "Artest-apologist" Syndrome that ran amok a few years ago on these boards, except this appears to be "J'Ob-apologist syndrome".

Is there a vaccine for this?


Roy doesn't have to have a sit down in depth interview - but I think he should have that once and for all if he thinks he needs to get it all out on the record.

Jim hasn't said a word since the was fired. so why would I demand that jim sit down for an indepth interview. Jim has moved on, I just wish Roy would too.

And you can give it rest with the vaccine comment. Find me my last JOB apologist post

Since86
02-23-2011, 03:30 PM
UB, you defended Jim for so long when the rest of us were telling you these things.

Now, when Roy (or anyone) comes out and verify what we tried telling you then and you respond, basically, with "It doesn't matter, Jim is gone" it paints the picture that instead of acknowledging what really happened, you'd rather pretend like you were the one on the right side of the discussion.

I've been called an "extremist" a "hater," I've been told my reactions were "knee jerk" etc. While Jim's tenure pissed me off from a basketball stand point, I've had to sit through you, and other's, tell me how wrong I was.

Roy is vindicating my, and many other's position, from our discussions. Instead of giving me the slight satisifaction that I was right, and that it was wrong to label me the way you, and other's did, you just don't want to talk about it anymore.

I'm sorry, but I just can't sit back and take everything that has been said about me sitting down, when it turns out that what I was saying was 100% true.

You saying you were wrong about the situation, regardless if you think you need too or not, would go a long way in mending fences. But instead of just admitting that you are wrong, when the players are now validating our opinions, you just want to act like it never happened.


You aren't "defending" him, but you certainly aren't accepting the reality of the situation either.

Kid Minneapolis
02-23-2011, 03:31 PM
Find me my last JOB apologist post

All the ones in this thread? lol... Internet medium aside, it's your tone and angle, anymore. The "No comment" stuff in other threads when people post things, as if we wouldn't be talking about that topic if J'Ob was still coaching. You generally come to J'Obs defense in most matters, and I'm probly not the only one to notice.

Roy makes some rather innocuous comments that he's completely entitled to say (and kept it civil) and you basically tell him to be quiet. Now would you have said that if you weren't a tad bitter by the departure of J'OB? I really don't think so. The comments slightly smack of sour grapes.

J'Ob isn't here anymore, so why not shift your support to the guy who still is and hasn't been a bad citizen? I can sorta see where you're coming from about the "J'Ob isn't here anymore so why bring it up" aspect, but on the same token, J'Ob isn't here anymore and Roy is. Support the guy who's still here, not the guy who was never short on puzzling public jabs himself (of which some were directed at the subject of this thread) and who's "system" clearly had a negative impact on a guy's career. I don't blame Roy one bit for having some air. He's not yet taken it to a point that I consider disrespectful. If you had a crappy boss who had thrown jabs at you and then got canned, I'm sure you would be talking on occasion around the water cooler.

Trophy
02-23-2011, 03:36 PM
He's definitely happier.

Everyone is happier and having a good time with each other.

I haven't seen Tyler talk so much with everyone since becoming a Pacer. I saw he and Lance were laughing on the bench last night.

Everyone is playing like they know how depending on what position they play and that's how you win games.

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 03:38 PM
I am very in touch with reality. LOL

I'm more than willing to admit where I was wrong, but I honestly I figured no one cares, maybe that is one of the many things I'm wrong about. But if you want to get into it point by point - every point you have ever made I'll be glad to say if I was wrong.

I'm wrong too much though, you need to narrow it down for me and I'll be more than willing to admit where I was wrong. (wonder if anyone else in this forum is held to that same standard) But go ahead, ask me anything you want

Kid Minneapolis
02-23-2011, 03:38 PM
It's not like Roy is making outrageous claims... his are statements that have been sung in chorus on these boards for months. Roy is pretty much validating most of the posters on this board who were ready for J'Ob to move on for a long time now. You have a bunch of posters on this board, and then multiple players all observing and stating the same things, and what's the saying?

If the shoe fits? No wait...

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Since86
02-23-2011, 03:48 PM
If the shoe fits? No wait...

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...


I'm going to channel my inner-UB here for a minute.

But it's not just a duck. People have been using that phrase wrongly. It's a drake duck of the Anatidae family.



That's pretty much what I read, when you (UB) try to point out that Roy didn't say that the offense was designed to JUST jack 3s.

Obviously it wasn't to JUST jack 3s, since they shot more 2s than 3s. You're arguing semantics, just to argue semantics.

Which is exactly my point about not acknowledging what really happened.

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 03:56 PM
I'm standing by waiting for the questions, ready and willing to admit where I was wrong.

I'm serious.

You can make a separate thread for it.

clownskull
02-23-2011, 04:20 PM
Screw that. Jim sure as hell wasn't mature about it when he blasted his players in the media, Roy included.

It's not Roy's fault that Jim sucks.

yep. obie was never shy about throwing his players under the bus publicly.
in the beginning, i thought perhaps it was to motivate his guys into playing harder but, it was never really constructive criticism- just criticism. roy was playing well and obie was asked about roy's performances early in the season and he could have been critical but offer a sliver of praise and mentioned that he was only being critical because even though roy was playing much improved, he honestly thought roy could do even better. that would have been far more helpful but, it didn't happen. then you had josh's irrelevant performance of last year. that was only irrelevant to jim because josh wasn't stretching the floor as much as obie wanted.

this strikes me not as a vengeance thing as much as karma gig. i have no problems with the players being honest about jim as he was being about them. obie should learn of this- don't dish it out unless you are willing to take your fair share when your turn comes. although i will say this- he hasn't tried to fire back and he shouldn't. i don't believe he has any firm footing on which to stand on to do so.

Since86
02-23-2011, 04:40 PM
I'm standing by waiting for the questions, ready and willing to admit where I was wrong.

I'm serious.

You can make a separate thread for it.

I don't need a seperate thread. I just don't like seeing another argument in a thread that's already created.

Instead of acknowledging what Roy has said, you're telling him he either needs to fully explain it or shut up. I would rather you just not do that.

Sookie
02-23-2011, 05:40 PM
Not exactly. He did have an alright personal relationship with most of the players but not nearly for the reason highlighted. The players thought he was funny. Jim was extremely sarcastic with a very dry sense of humor. Often times that humor could seen as belittling to the person Jim was making fun of but it was still funny. There was one or two players who very much resented this behavior but mainly because they were often times the butt of his jokes.

Safe to assume Roy was one of the few that didn't find him funny?

grace
02-23-2011, 05:49 PM
UB, I'd never tell you that you're wrong. I might think it (a lot) but I'd never tell you that. What I would tell you is that I don't happen to agree with you that Roy needs to either spill his guts or shut up. I also disagree with probably every positive thing you've ever said about JOB's coaching.

PR07
02-23-2011, 05:51 PM
Yeah, if he's going to say it, get it all out in the open. None of this slowly leak information, that's like baseball and the players that did steroids. Every 6 months we find that another player took them.

Unclebuck
02-23-2011, 07:59 PM
UB, I'd never tell you that you're wrong. I might think it (a lot) but I'd never tell you that. What I would tell you is that I don't happen to agree with you that Roy needs to either spill his guts or shut up. I also disagree with probably every positive thing you've ever said about JOB's coaching.

that is why this forum is here.

I never suggested anyone has to agre with me

Whiskeyjim
02-23-2011, 08:14 PM
It was JOB that made public snide comments about his players from a position of authority.

Now, his players are making comments. No one has to 'come clean.' Why bother? But what goes around comes around. There is no need for some kind of full disclosure. The players are getting past it.

But clearly there was a great deal of frustration on that Pacer team. Bird would do well to get that feedback on an ongoing basis. That is what good management does. IF you can not confidentially speak up about the team because of the hierarchy, you're screwed.

Naptown_Seth
02-23-2011, 09:35 PM
Since Vogel took over;

17.6 points, 7.7 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, 50.3 FG%

He played quite similar to this when the year started. Then it went downhill, and came back the second O'brien was gone. That pretty much told me everything I needed to know.
Yeah, when I worked those slump numbers awhile back in the Rush with Vogel discussion (I showed slumps for both Roy and Rush) I was kinda shocked at how dramatic and closely tied to the "MIP comments" it was.


Roy saying this is epic

We’re out here trying to win games now.”And kinda ironic considering that JOB's defense for his horrible methods was "we are trying to win games", even though a good portion of fans right here at PD were suggesting that the kids were not only the right choice for improving your chances at winning in the future but they also gave you a better shot to win now.

JOB might be gone and he might be a nice person, but as a coach I hate him with a white hot passion. He metaphorically kicked puppies and punched babies as the Pacers coach. I hate thinking about his Roy, Josh and Price comments, his use and defense of Troy, his on/off use of the plus-minus depending on whether it backed his crazy rotation choices or not...

JOB is second behind the Piston fans/Stern during/after the brawl in terms of my most hated things in Pacers history. 2nd. Ahead of Kukoc game 7, ahead of Kobe game 5, ahead of Knicks 99 or 94, ahead of Starks in general.

Arghh...:box:

Naptown_Seth
02-23-2011, 09:42 PM
Might get bashed for it, and I'm sure Roy was very frustrated playing under JOB, but it's been over three weeks. Let it go.
Yeah, 3 weeks is forever. If you are 13.


"Let it go Bob, you've been divorced for over three weeks now."

"Come on David, your boss fired you like 4 weeks ago and you're still bent out of shape about it."


Good lord, I could spill hot coffee on myself and still be uptight 3 weeks later. I've had cuts and bruises that lasted that long.

This is the dude's WORKPLACE AND LIVING. He had a horrible boss. You don't just drop that s*** a few weeks later. You remain thankful for sure but it's going to take awhile to let it go.


The brawl or Ron or Tinsley or Jackson or Peja "hurt" for the playoffs or any of the stuff I mentioned in the prior post all happened more than 3 weeks ago. I kinda see fans hanging onto those moments. They go on with their life, but they'll still make comments from time to time.

Naptown_Seth
02-23-2011, 09:51 PM
No, but it's hypocritical for you to defend Jimmy all this time, then lambaste Roy for doing the same thing.
No s***

Buck, to me this crap is really bad. Roy is WAY WAY WAY less than JOB saying to the press when asked a softball "feel good" question about Roy's effort to reach MIP that Roy was having a bad season.

JOB went out of his way to be a d*** when everything suggested that a productive, positive comment was appropriate. The Josh/Lakers thing was just like Roy, all he has to do is say "well if it wasn't for Josh's first half we probably would have lost the game sooner, maybe if we could get more guys playing like in the 2nd half we could start winning games like this".

Instead he said "irrelevant". That's going out of your way to intentionally be an a'hole.


On the topic of JOB I feel like you've jumped the shark, it's just not rational or consistent with your other opinions, as Kegboy points out.



haven't been doing much defending of Jim lately. In fact I'll give you a dollar for every post you find where I defended Jim since he was fired.

In this thread, I've been critical of Roy.

I have not defended Jim in this thread
What part of "all this time" wasn't clear?

BlueNGold
02-23-2011, 10:18 PM
There's only one way to describe Jim now. Irrelevant.

I do agree that Roy needs to move on at some point, but imagine the months of dealing with Jim. It was like torture. No human being should be expected just to turn on a dime.

Anyway, it's nice to see the team 9-3 post JOb. If we go just .500 over the next 6 fairly tough games...it will be an amazing turnaround. No question about it...we would lose the next 6 games...every one of them...with Jim coaching the team.

Anthem
02-23-2011, 10:22 PM
And that is why if Roy is going to say anything he needs to do a long interview and go into detail what he is trying to say.
How do you know he hasn't?

McKeyFan
02-23-2011, 10:26 PM
UB, why would Roy have to have a sit-down in-depth interview to air out his frustrations with O'B's system? I don't think that's necessary at all, and in fact, would be a LeBron-esque drama stage.

Don't get that logic at all. If you're demanding that of Roy now, then you should've demanded O'B to sit down and air out all his "incidents" and comments when he was still coach, and yet you gave him a flyer. You're still giving him a flyer... it's actually pretty funny to watch.

You'll come around eventually... it reminds me of "Artest-apologist" Syndrome that ran amok a few years ago on these boards, except this appears to be "J'Ob-apologist syndrome".

Is there a vaccine for this?
Grecian Formula (1/2 bottle).

McKeyFan
02-23-2011, 10:41 PM
Not exactly. He did have an alright personal relationship with most of the players but not nearly for the reason highlighted. The players thought he was funny. Jim was extremely sarcastic with a very dry sense of humor. Often times that humor could seen as belittling to the person Jim was making fun of but it was still funny. There was one or two players who very much resented this behavior but mainly because they were often times the butt of his jokes.
Interesting.

How do you get the inside info?

And who are the two players?

PaceBalls
02-23-2011, 10:45 PM
Interesting.

How do you get the inside info?

And who are the two players?

I can answer that. Brandon Rush and Tyler Hansbrough.

Just guessing of course, but they seem more serious and not the kind to appreciate the Joker.

Bball
02-23-2011, 11:16 PM
O'Brien carried himself with a confidence and even arrogance that would befit a top tier coach with nothing to prove.

That only made things worse because....

He coached like one of the worst coaches the Pacers have ever had. Contradictions in his words and actions. Maddening rotations. A total lack of common sense. Rarely putting the team in a position to do well. Running from the team's strengths. Always chasing some ideal rather than dealing with the reality of the situation.

Was he the worst coach the Pacers have ever had? We've had some dogs so it's hard to say he's the worst (although you could argue the case)... But IMHO he's clearly one of the worst we ever had. It's interesting that he and Isiah book-ended the decade. They both had more in common than anyone would ever want to believe.

Sookie
02-24-2011, 12:01 AM
I can answer that. Brandon Rush and Tyler Hansbrough.

Just guessing of course, but they seem more serious and not the kind to appreciate the Joker.

I would have guessed Roy and Lance, with probably Hans as a third.

Roy and Lance because I have a feeling they were the butt of quite a few jokes. Hans because, like you said, I don't think he's got the personality to appreciate that kind of humor. Also wouldn't surprise me if PG was one of them.

Since86
02-24-2011, 12:19 PM
I would have guessed Roy and Lance, with probably Hans as a third.

Roy and Lance because I have a feeling they were the butt of quite a few jokes. Hans because, like you said, I don't think he's got the personality to appreciate that kind of humor. Also wouldn't surprise me if PG was one of them.

You just can't let it go... ;)

Sookie
02-24-2011, 12:50 PM
You just can't let it go... ;)

:laugh::laugh:

Honestly, not my intention. (I didn't have a problem with that part of the Candy episode.) I just figured the youngest guy that never gets to play is most likely the subject of the jokes.

BRushWithDeath
02-24-2011, 12:57 PM
At one point or other every player was subjected to the ribbing. And it did go too far at times. Roy was certainly one who took it more to heart than others.