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View Full Version : Frank Vogel should curb his enthusiasm



Foul on Smits
02-05-2011, 06:19 AM
The 3 game winning streak is nice. Collison is extremely dangerous when you give him the keys to the Ferrari. Hibbert is getting back to the level he was playing at the beginning of the season and Granger has played as aggressive as i've ever seen him. Driving to the basket, getting free throws. It's all great to see.

But....

We've beaten the two worst teams in the league and a Blazer team without Marcus Camby and Brandon Roy.

Great job Frank, but lets see you get past this obvious letdown game against the Nets and then beat the Heat. If you can do that, then i'll start to buy. Beat the Heat.

I just think he's way too confident right now. No one wants to play Hansbrough? Come on. I can name 10 PF's in this league that would line up to play Tyler right now. Tyler has been great, but come on. Lets get realistic here.

This is going to be a process. I'm not going to go nuts about a 3 game winning streak and a 7 games under .500 record.

What do you guys think?

Foul on Smits
02-05-2011, 06:22 AM
just realized the same thread has basically been done, my bad.

Indra
02-05-2011, 07:44 AM
The 3 game winning streak is nice. Collison is extremely dangerous when you give him the keys to the Ferrari. Hibbert is getting back to the level he was playing at the beginning of the season and Granger has played as aggressive as i've ever seen him. Driving to the basket, getting free throws. It's all great to see.

But....

We've beaten the two worst teams in the league and a Blazer team without Marcus Camby and Brandon Roy.

Great job Frank, but lets see you get past this obvious letdown game against the Nets and then beat the Heat. If you can do that, then i'll start to buy. Beat the Heat.

I just think he's way too confident right now. No one wants to play Hansbrough? Come on. I can name 10 PF's in this league that would line up to play Tyler right now. Tyler has been great, but come on. Lets get realistic here.

This is going to be a process. I'm not going to go nuts about a 3 game winning streak and a 7 games under .500 record.

What do you guys think?

I think he's using hyperbole when talking about Hansbrough so Tyler continues to believe in himself. The mind is a powerful thing, and knowing that you have your coach's approval and convincing yourself that nobody wants to play you can be a strong force.

Also, I honestly think that playing against Tyler does suck. I don't think that nobody wants to play against him, but he is VERY physical, his motor is always running, he'll catch you offguard if you take a play off, and he gets you to foul him. Basically all the same reasons he was so dominant in college.

Pacersalltheway10
02-05-2011, 08:19 AM
What's wrong with confidence if it makes your players more confident?

Roaming Gnome
02-05-2011, 08:52 AM
Yeah, because we'll get more out of them by telling them that they're just not that good...

Granted, we fans can say that till the cows come home, but I want my teams coach inspiring and instilling confidence in their game... Properly correcting mistakes and eventual losses will keep the players grounded in reality!

Unclebuck
02-05-2011, 09:12 AM
Great job Frank, but lets see you get past this obvious letdown game against the Nets and then beat the Heat. If you can do that, then i'll start to buy. Beat the Heat.

I just think he's way too confident right now. No one wants to play Hansbrough? Come on. I can name 10 PF's in this league that would line up to play Tyler right now. Tyler has been great, but come on. Lets get realistic here.

This is going to be a process. I'm not going to go nuts about a 3 game winning streak and a 7 games under .500 record.

What do you guys think?

I disagree wth your premise. No one is suggesting that the Pacers are all of a sudden the Celtics, Lakers, mavs, or Spurs. So in other words it is unfair to expect the pacers to win in Miami (for the second time this season) and to set that as some type of barometer is not fair.

I think his comment about tyler is not the same type of comment a coach would make about Kobe, lebron, Dwight. He is saying Tyler no one wants to play against because of his style. and you can see he gets under players skin

Speed
02-05-2011, 09:23 AM
I love his enthusiasm. I like that he's trying to change their identity to a physically punishing team from a soft 3 pt jacking pushover. Often a big part of reality is perception.

Again, I don't take this as being over confident at all, I take it as believeing in his team, whats wrong with that.

Its working, even if it is against lesser teams. They are hitting the boards and getting to the line at an excellent rate. That is playoff basketball type stuff.

kellogg
02-05-2011, 09:23 AM
The 3 game winning streak is nice. Collison is extremely dangerous when you give him the keys to the Ferrari. Hibbert is getting back to the level he was playing at the beginning of the season and Granger has played as aggressive as i've ever seen him. Driving to the basket, getting free throws. It's all great to see.

But....

We've beaten the two worst teams in the league and a Blazer team without Marcus Camby and Brandon Roy.

Great job Frank, but lets see you get past this obvious letdown game against the Nets and then beat the Heat. If you can do that, then i'll start to buy. Beat the Heat.

I just think he's way too confident right now. No one wants to play Hansbrough? Come on. I can name 10 PF's in this league that would line up to play Tyler right now. Tyler has been great, but come on. Lets get realistic here.

This is going to be a process. I'm not going to go nuts about a 3 game winning streak and a 7 games under .500 record.

What do you guys think?

Thanks Coach O'Brien for your analysis...:)

PacerDude
02-05-2011, 11:43 AM
Yeah, we need to continue the doom & gloom outlook for these guys. Hibbert ?? Washed up. Granger ?? Horrible. Collison ?? Doesn't spread the floor. George ?? Rookie - can't possibly contribute. McBob ?? Irrelavant.

Let's just play matador defense and scatter-shot offense and then rip the players when the wins don't come.

Encouragement and being optomistic have no place in sports.

SMosley21
02-05-2011, 12:12 PM
Some people just can't be happy. Isn't there a medical diagnosis for people like that?

redfoster
02-05-2011, 12:20 PM
Not sure, but it seems like most of them are on PD. Lighten up and get excited for once, guys. It's not a weakness to get excited when things are going well for a team that hasn't been that good this season. Can we not just enjoy ourselves a little bit without being shat upon?

NapTonius Monk
02-05-2011, 12:22 PM
There are no 'easy' wins for a struggling franchise. Every ray of hope should be appreciated. The concern has always been, if we're playing the vets to give us the best chance to win, and that consistently nets 32 games, who cares. But if we're hanging our hats on the success of the young guys, we should get excited when they do well.

NapTonius Monk
02-05-2011, 12:43 PM
If you can do that, then i'll start to buy. Beat the Heat.They already beat the Heat once. You're saying if they lose to a surging Heat team (who will be geared up for revenge), you won't be on board?

Hicks
02-05-2011, 12:54 PM
Some people just can't be happy. Isn't there a medical diagnosis for people like that?

Some people are anhedonic (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anhedonic).

DieHard
02-05-2011, 01:27 PM
I think his comment about tyler is not the same type of comment a coach would make about Kobe, lebron, Dwight. He is saying Tyler no one wants to play against because of his style. and you can see he gets under players skin

This. He also said the same thing about Foster and I don't think teams are fearful of Jeff beating them by himself. He is commenting on their effort and the pressure it puts on the opposition to match it.

I also thought the interview was a little over the top, but I won't let that stop me from enjoying the players and rotations I have been dying to see all season, and until his approach has negative effects I'm all for it. Besides anything is better than seeing JOB up there after we lost a game we lead by double figures in the 4th.

LA_Confidential
02-05-2011, 02:09 PM
I think someone misses Jimmy. :cry:

TMJ31
02-05-2011, 02:19 PM
The moment I will begin to second guess jumping on the Vogel bandwagon is the game when the Pacers show no heart or effort or fight in a loss.

I just don't see that happening anytime soon. Will we lose to the Heat? Good chance, yes. But I am pretty damn sure we are going to go down fighting if we DO lose. And that's the most important thing here.

We need to continue winning games we (should have been) winning all along, and give the powerhouse teams all they can handle and let the chips fall where they may.

To expect Vogel to start 10-0 or something is a nice thought, but not too realistic.

I am buying into his newfound philosophy and his way of inspiring and building up our guys, not JUST the fact that he is 3-0.

If JOB was still our coach and we won the last 3 games, would we all have such a rosy outlook on our recent success? Didn't think so...

It's a new era. Win or lose, I am happy to be witnessing it.

presto123
02-05-2011, 02:29 PM
Why should Vogel be expected to beat arguably the best team in the league? Regardless we are playing better and beating the teams we should beat and I love the new positive culture. Be as enthusiastic as you want coach.

LA_Confidential
02-05-2011, 02:29 PM
The moment I will begin to second guess jumping on the Vogel bandwagon is the game when the Pacers show no heart or effort or fight in a loss.

I just don't see that happening anytime soon. Will we lose to the Heat? Good chance, yes. But I am pretty damn sure we are going to go down fighting if we DO lose. And that's the most important thing here.

We need to continue winning games we (should have been) winning all along, and give the powerhouse teams all they can handle and let the chips fall where they may.

To expect Vogel to start 10-0 or something is a nice thought, but not too realistic.

I am buying into his newfound philosophy and his way of inspiring and building up our guys, not JUST the fact that he is 3-0.

If JOB was still our coach and we won the last 3 games, would we all have such a rosy outlook on our recent success? Didn't think so...

It's a new era. Win or lose, I am happy to be witnessing it.

:amen:

Bird Fan
02-05-2011, 02:36 PM
Beat the Heat? They're what, the 3rd best team in the league? If we don't win, it won't be Vogel's fault, it will be the fact that they're a better team than us... You can't make or break Vogel's season based on this game.

presto123
02-05-2011, 02:38 PM
Beat the Heat? They're what, the 3rd best team in the league? If we don't win, it won't be Vogel's fault, it will be the fact that they're a better team than us... You can't make or break Vogel's season based on this game.

That's what I said two posts above^^^^^^^^:-p

Midcoasted
02-05-2011, 02:42 PM
OP I agree! If we close out the Nets, like we should, the motto will be Beat the Heat! It should get some radio time in Indiana! Come out, keep the Heat fans out of Conseco. Give the team homecourt advantage and let's go up 2-0 on the heat and leave them baffled!!!

BEAT THE HEAT!!!

Probably impossible at this point but man I long for a playoff atmosphere in the Fieldhouse....

And if we don't who cares, so long as we beat the Nets. Now if we drop both, then we are in trouble!

JonnyB83
02-05-2011, 03:07 PM
OP I agree! If we close out the Nets, like we should, the motto will be Beat the Heat! It should get some radio time in Indiana! Come out, keep the Heat fans out of Conseco. Give the team homecourt advantage and let's go up 2-0 on the heat and leave them baffled!!!

BEAT THE HEAT!!!

Probably impossible at this point but man I long for a playoff atmosphere in the Fieldhouse....

And if we don't who cares, so long as we beat the Nets. Now if we drop both, then we are in trouble!

I got some goosebumps thinking about this.

It's awesome to have a coach who seems to be building the players up to the press instead of tearing them down. I'm all for it. I love getting drunk on Pacer Kool-aid!

Peck
02-05-2011, 03:08 PM
3 games of positive re-inforcement does not make up for 3 years of negative re-inforcement.

Besides if nothing else isn't it so much better to log onto P.D. and not have thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after threa of complaining about or arguing over the value of Jim O'Brien.

Sure people are on a little too much of a high right now, but it is refreshing after so much being down with no hope for so many people for so long.

Jon Theodore
02-05-2011, 03:11 PM
You can certainly criticize Vogels enthusiasm, but I think the line regarding Hansbrough is right on. I don't think anybody loves going against Tyler, he just gets under players skin. Garnett, Stephen Jackson, and Andre Miller are three guys off the top of my head who I have seen get frustrated playing against Hansbrough.

Legendary
02-05-2011, 03:50 PM
I love the enthusiasm 100 times better then what JOB brought to the table!

dohman
02-05-2011, 04:25 PM
Give me a break. This team was considered to be one of the worst teams in the NBA before vogel took over. We had nothing going for us and Frank stepped in and has the guys motivated. He has done this by preaching hard nosed basketball and praising his guys.

What should he do differently to get the teams confidence back. Say we played horrible and that roy has a lot of work to do?

He is taking baby steps. We were fortunate to have the first two games be against cle/tor but do not tell him to check his enthusiasm. A win is a win and when you string together three you should be happy.

Sookie
02-05-2011, 04:44 PM
The guy is excited, why shouldn't he be. They are young guys..it's important that they believe in themselves.

BPump33
02-05-2011, 04:52 PM
OP I agree! If we close out the Nets, like we should, the motto will be Beat the Heat! It should get some radio time in Indiana! Come out, keep the Heat fans out of Conseco. Give the team homecourt advantage and let's go up 2-0 on the heat and leave them baffled!!!

BEAT THE HEAT!!!

Probably impossible at this point but man I long for a playoff atmosphere in the Fieldhouse....

And if we don't who cares, so long as we beat the Nets. Now if we drop both, then we are in trouble!

I agree and love the enthusiasm, but that first Heat game is in Miami.

dlewyus
02-05-2011, 05:05 PM
I don't know if anyone has said this on here, but I will. For some reason Frank Vogel reminds me alot of Brad Stevens, the coach of Butler. Smart, confident young coaches, who treat the players with respect while still demanding excellence from them and settling for nothing less. Much like the man in my avatar. I know it's a little early to make these comparisons but I'm very impressed with Vogel so far.

MunciePacerBabe
02-05-2011, 05:39 PM
No way! Never curb the enthusiasm! Love it! Positivity can take people a long way and I can see it in everyone's faces and demeanors that the atmosphere has changed....woohoo!

AesopRockOn
02-05-2011, 07:30 PM
I think one thing we've learned is that Vogel does wants the job full time and is pushing hard to be in the running. If this culture with the players continues, Larry will have a tougher decision in the summer than maybe he thought that he would have. Like JOB, however, it will mostly come down to record.

Day-V
02-05-2011, 07:37 PM
I disagree.

PR07
02-05-2011, 08:06 PM
God forbid someone bring some energy and excitement to this team.

To put it in perspective, say what you want about Rex Ryan but the guy brought his team energy, excitement, and swagger. If Vogel can bring any of that to our team, it would be an upgrade.

Unclebuck
02-05-2011, 08:53 PM
Some people just can't be happy. Isn't there a medical diagnosis for people like that?

Bball disease?










Just joking Bball we have known each other (in this forum for years) so I can joke with you