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PacerPenguins
02-03-2011, 05:00 PM
Cain in New Zealand:
Is there any chance the Pacers make a sizable deal by the deadline? How will the recent play of Paul George and Tyler Hansbrough effect trade talk?
Joel Brigham:
The people I've talked to over in Indy seem pretty content with standing pat for now. No team in the league is on deck to have more cap flexibility than the Pacers this summer, and they think they could potentially lure in a pretty big name to put around the solid young pieces they've already got in place. So no, I don't think they do anything with their expiring deals before the deadline, but I do know they're looking forward to seeing what they can do with that money in the offseason.

As for Paul George, they absolutely LOVE him out there. There aren't a whole lot of guys his size in the league that are THAT quick. He's a really humble, hard-working kid and I've heard smart folks say he could be the make-or-break guy for that Pacers team. Not Collison, not Hibbert, not Granger. Paul George. And the Indy higher-ups seem to feel the same way. They think he transforms into the guy that takes the last shot eventually, and on a personal level I don't know that there are many better kids in this rookie class from a personal standpoint. He's gonna be good. He really is.



The Wonderer in wondering...:
OK - with half the season behind us re-do this years draft - top 10 - not paying attention to teams/needs - simply proof was in the pudding.
Joel Brigham:
I'm skipping Blake since he was technically drafted in '09. As for the rest, here goes:

1. John Wall
2. DeMarcus Cousins
3. Landry Fields
4. Paul George
5. Greg Monroe
6. Gary Neal
7. Wes Johnson
8. Ed Davis
9. Derrick Favors
10. Evan


Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1415#ixzz1Cw4jh5AS

It seems like everyone is high on Paul George... I just cant wait until he starts

Day-V
02-03-2011, 05:04 PM
Good stuff. I love it. Love watching Paul play.

vnzla81
02-03-2011, 05:06 PM
I don't want to get my hopes high but this kid is something special.
By the way I disagree with that list, there is no way that Fields is better than PG.

BringJackBack
02-03-2011, 05:06 PM
Lol whoever drafted Landry "Mediocre with no potential" Fields at #3 is really going to regret drafting him over Paul George, Greg Monroe, and Derrick Favors.

1984
02-03-2011, 05:08 PM
Thanks for the post. It is interesting to hear various perspectives about Paul George. With that being said, I thought PG stood for "point guard." Perhaps PG24 would be a better way to abbreviate Paul George's name.

Day-V
02-03-2011, 05:14 PM
*crosses fingers* Please stay healthy, Paul. Please stay healthy, Paul. Please stay healthy, Paul.........

vnzla81
02-03-2011, 05:15 PM
Here are some videos that I was watching last night about Tmac's rookie year and PG is pretty similar.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oGqpiubNWLg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XnG1BKPu0Ho" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Trophy
02-03-2011, 05:26 PM
He's going to make this a proud team and everyone will want to come out and see he and the Pacers play.

ballism
02-03-2011, 05:32 PM
Lol whoever drafted Landry "Mediocre with no potential" Fields at #3 is really going to regret drafting him over Paul George, Greg Monroe, and Derrick Favors.

Same goes for anyone who takes Gary Neal no.6 in that draft, considering he's 26 and was not draft eligible at the time. :)
Lets just say it's not a well thought out list.
Nice for PG to get some acknowledgement nonetheless.

vnzla81
02-03-2011, 06:12 PM
Here is the per 36min comparison between Danny rookie year and Paul

Danny per 36min: 7.8reb 1.8asst 12 pts

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/grangda01.html


Paul George per 36min: 6.2reb 1.9asst and 16.3 pts

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html

There is no doubt that Paul is a better player, the only thing that Danny did better was rebound, in every other category PG beats Danny.

BringJackBack
02-03-2011, 06:16 PM
Danny was also two years older as a rookie.

pacer4ever
02-03-2011, 06:21 PM
Danny was also two years older as a rookie.

Tmac was 2 yrs younger

Kobe was an allstar at age 19 WOW

xBulletproof
02-03-2011, 06:23 PM
Tmac was 2 yrs younger

Kobe was an allstar at age 19 WOW

Kobe was an All Star at 19 because fan voting is stupid. That's the only reason.

pacer4ever
02-03-2011, 06:25 PM
Kobe was an All Star at 19 because fan voting is stupid. That's the only reason.

he played really good in that all star game i watch it 2 day that was Tim Duncans rookie yr and MJ won MVP. The Lakers had 4 all stars on that team. It was a fun game 2 watch.

xBulletproof
02-03-2011, 06:30 PM
he played really good in that all star game i watch it 2 day that was Tim Duncans rookie yr and MJ won MVP. The Lakers had 4 all stars on that team. It was a fun game 2 watch.

Doesn't change anything. I'm in the car and I'm going off memory so correct me if I'm wrong, but he averaged 15 ppg and started 1 game all year for the Lakers. My memory on stats Is usually impeccable. That's not an All Star. He took a spot from a guy who deserved it.

ballism
02-03-2011, 06:30 PM
If we are going there, Magic was an All Star starter, Finals MVP and champion in his rookie year. Paul George is doomed forever!

DGPR
02-03-2011, 06:37 PM
Here are some videos that I was watching last night about Tmac's rookie year and PG is pretty similar.

<IFRAME title="YouTube video player" height=390 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oGqpiubNWLg" frameBorder=0 width=480 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>


<IFRAME title="YouTube video player" height=390 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XnG1BKPu0Ho" frameBorder=0 width=480 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>


In the second video take a look at Oliver Miller's fat ***. My lord I forgot how big he was, he makes Glen Davis look like a poster child for starvation.

pacer4ever
02-03-2011, 06:44 PM
Doesn't change anything. I'm in the car and I'm going off memory so correct me if I'm wrong, but he averaged 15 ppg and started 1 game all year for the Lakers. My memory on stats Is usually impeccable. That's not an All Star. He took a spot from a guy who deserved it.

yep he was the last guy 2 come off the bench to make the all-star team. Lamar Odom was in the mix this yr but doubt he makes it.

pacer4ever
02-03-2011, 06:46 PM
If we are going there, Magic was an All Star starter, Finals MVP and champion in his rookie year. Paul George is doomed forever!

No he isnt doomed lol i just find that incredible people like Magic and Kobe were so young and so good.

Psyren
02-03-2011, 07:03 PM
I don't want to get my hopes high but this kid is something special.
By the way I disagree with that list, there is no way that Fields is better than PG.

Agreed. That's only because Fields plays so many minutes.

IMO, PG should be 3 with Landry Fields 4th.

BringJackBack
02-03-2011, 07:07 PM
I'd rather have PG over Cousins because he's got an actual brain, he's well spoken, and he has more potential because he can actually get his feet off of the ground unlike Cousins.. And I don't think that's me being a homer either.. Cousins has a lot of problems with Westphal and his field goal percentage is horrible due to bad shot selection.

IUfan4life
02-03-2011, 07:21 PM
Here is the per 36min comparison between Danny rookie year and Paul

Danny per 36min: 7.8reb 1.8asst 12 pts

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/grangda01.html


Paul George per 36min: 6.2reb 1.9asst and 16.3 pts

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html

There is no doubt that Paul is a better player, the only thing that Danny did better was rebound, in every other category PG beats Danny.
The 36min and 48min stats are completely worthless for what it's worth. One of the worst stats out there

BlueNGold
02-03-2011, 07:31 PM
I'd rather have PG over Cousins because he's got an actual brain, he's well spoken, and he has more potential because he can actually get his feet off of the ground unlike Cousins.. And I don't think that's me being a homer either.. Cousins has a lot of problems with Westphal and his field goal percentage is horrible due to bad shot selection.

Cousins is limited in some ways like Roy Hibbert..although Cousins is really better equipped for the NBA. Not terribly athletic, but very skilled. Both are more skilled than Dwight Howard, but simply due to athleticism they cannot be super good.

Anyway, not only would I take Paul George over Cousins I would take Hibbert too. Fact is, with the right coach Roy can be about as good as Cousins...maybe better. ...and a lot better team mate...and a whole lot easier to root for...

Edit: just to be clear, no I don't think Roy is as good as Cousins, particularly right now. Like Smits, however, Roy can become one of the better centers in the league with some time. Roy is really more of a work in progress. DeMarcus came into the league very highly regarded and I think he's proving his worth notwithstanding a poor FG%. The hope is not that Roy will ever be as talented as DeMarcus but that he becomes a better player considering everything he does on and off the court....and a good enough C to be all-star calibre.

pacer4ever
02-03-2011, 07:44 PM
Cousins is limited in some ways like Roy Hibbert..although Cousins is really better equipped for the NBA. Not terribly athletic, but very skilled. Both are more skilled than Dwight Howard, but simply due to athleticism they cannot be super good.

Anyway, not only would I take Paul George over Cousins I would take Hibbert too. Fact is, with the right coach Roy can be about as good as Cousins...maybe better. ...and a lot better team mate...and a whole lot easier to root for...

Cousins is pretty athletic for his size. he is really mobile

BlueNGold
02-03-2011, 08:02 PM
Cousins is pretty athletic for his size. he is really mobile

Compared to Roy, I agree. Not compared to Dwight.

Don't get me wrong, I know Cousins is better equipped (i.e. more athletic, nba body, etc.) than Roy Hibbert. Heck, he's simply more effective. At the same time, he plays on a team that is actually much, much worse....so I wouldn't overstate his abilities too much. He's just not going to be a dominant superstar along the lines of Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, etc. Maybe he's Zach Randolph. He certainly has his personality...

pacer4ever
02-03-2011, 08:08 PM
Compared to Roy, I agree. Not compared to Dwight.
Don't get me wrong, I know Cousins is better equipped (i.e. more athletic, nba body, etc.) than Roy Hibbert. Heck, he's simply more effective. At the same time, he plays on a team that is actually much, much worse....so I wouldn't overstate his abilities too much. He's just not going to be a dominant superstar along the lines of Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, etc. Maybe he's Zach Randolph. He certainly has his personality...

no :censored:

Thats like comparing Blake Griffen to Tyler almost no one is atletich as Dwight

ballism
02-03-2011, 08:13 PM
Cousins is pretty athletic for his size. he is really mobile

Indeed. You guys make it sound like he's stuck to the floor a la Zach Randolph. Cousins is very athletic considering how big and strong he is at the same time. And he's so mobile, and can really jump. Sure, he does a lot of finesse stuff, but that's because he's so skilled. He can also push anyone out of the paint, which Hibbert will never do. The only issue with Cousins is character. In 5 years, he's either the new Ron Ron, or an All-NBA Center. No other way. He can be a stronger, brawl-ier Tim Duncan, or a Darko. I'd bet on the former.

And btw, for those comparing shooting numbers - check his progress month by month, you are bound to change your view.

My list would be
1.Wall
2. Cousins - and only because of character issues, otherwise I'd take him 1st
3. Favors
4. Paul George
5. Greg Monroe
6. Ed Davis (not sold on him yet)
7. Landry Fields
8. Wes Johnson
9. Xavier Henry
10. Larry Sanders

Day-V
02-03-2011, 08:14 PM
I wonder where John Wall is going to go once his Rookie contract is up?



Miami, perhaps?

pizza guy
02-03-2011, 08:17 PM
Here are some videos that I was watching last night about Tmac's rookie year and PG is pretty similar.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oGqpiubNWLg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XnG1BKPu0Ho" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

At :34 in the first video, is that Garth from Wayne's World? :laugh:

Nice to hear some good stuff about our boy.

BlueNGold
02-03-2011, 08:45 PM
Indeed. You guys make it sound like he's stuck to the floor a la Zach Randolph. Cousins is very athletic considering how big and strong he is at the same time. And he's so mobile, and can really jump. Sure, he does a lot of finesse stuff, but that's because he's so skilled. He can also push anyone out of the paint, which Hibbert will never do. The only issue with Cousins is character. In 5 years, he's either the new Ron Ron, or an All-NBA Center. No other way. He can be a stronger, brawl-ier Tim Duncan, or a Darko. I'd bet on the former.

You and Pacer4Ever must be dipping into the alcohol. Tim Duncan averaged 21ppg @55% from the floor as a rookie on a team that went to the finals. Cousins' team is in last place and his numbers are no where close to that.

The issue is that Cousins is not athletic enough for that aspect of his game to be a dominating advantage. It's a weakness for Roy. It's a strength for Dwight. Cousins is no more or less athletic than many bigs in the NBA. His advantage is his skill level and strength. If Hibbert had his strength alone, Roy would be a better player right now even with zero hops.

Day-V
02-03-2011, 08:48 PM
You and Pacer4Ever must be dipping into the alcohol. Tim Duncan averaged 21ppg @55% from the floor as a rookie on a team that went to the finals.

To be fair, Duncan went to the finals in his 2nd year, not his rookie year. ;)

pacer4ever
02-03-2011, 08:55 PM
You and Pacer4Ever must be dipping into the alcohol. Tim Duncan averaged 21ppg @55% from the floor as a rookie on a team that went to the finals. Cousins' team is in last place and his numbers are no where close to that.

The issue is that Cousins is not athletic enough for that aspect of his game to be a dominating advantage. It's a weakness for Roy. It's a strength for Dwight. Cousins is no more or less athletic than many bigs in the NBA. His advantage is his skill level and strength. If Hibbert had his strength alone, Roy would be a better player right now even with zero hops.

dont put my name on that I just said he is really athletic for his size. I didnt say he was tim duncan

ballism
02-03-2011, 09:40 PM
numbers
.

I'm a sad panda for Paul George right now. If only he had numbers in his rookie year, he might have been a decent player someday. Not anymore. Poor Dirk, and KG, and Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, Yao Ming, Steve Nash, Andrew Bogut, Rajon Rondo and Charles Barkley. They had the talent to be All-NBA, but they never did, because they didn't get star numbers in their rookie years. :(


Cousins is no more or less athletic than many bigs in the NBA. His advantage is his skill level and strength.

So, he can maintain incredible strength and mass while staying as agile as anyone of that size and bulk, second only to Dwight. Yet most skinny pansy big men can move as fast. Ok, I can agree with that. He will never beat Kevin Durant or Anthony Randolph in a race or a jumping contest.

Shaq wasn't the fastest and highest jumping 7 footer either, but was he non-athletic? If yes, then we understand athleticism very differently. I only compare to the guys of similar strength.


If Hibbert had his strength alone, Roy would be a better player right now even with zero hops

That I agree to. If Hibbert had strength, and most importantly the mindset to constantly bruise with people, he'd be All NBA. Yet he does not. Which reminds me of multiple torturing experiences while watching Pacers games. Why did you have to bring this up, anyway?

Merz
02-03-2011, 09:43 PM
At :34 in the first video, is that Garth from Wayne's World? :laugh:

.

I believe that is Penny Marshall

PaceBalls
02-03-2011, 09:51 PM
Paul isn't even in the rookie game this year... how stupid and ridiculous is that?
Thanks alot Jim for giving Paul all those DNP-CDs.

Actually, I really don't give a crap at all about the all star weekend, but Jim still sucks for not playing PG.

Hasta la Vista Jimmy~!!

BlueNGold
02-03-2011, 09:51 PM
dont put my name on that I just said he is really athletic for his size. I didnt say he was tim duncan

Ok. That wasn't fair of me...:blush:

But don't take it seriously.

So who is Demarcus? Where does he rank? Assuming Hibbert becomes a Smits-like all-star calibre C some day, is he better than Roy is going to be?

pacer4ever
02-03-2011, 09:54 PM
Ok. That wasn't fair of me...:blush:

But don't take it seriously.

So who is Demarcus? Where does he rank? Assuming Hibbert becomes a Smits-like all-star calibre C some day, is he better than Roy is going to be?

Ya i think he is better than Hibbert if he doesnt turn into Artest 2.0 he will be a stud.

ballism
02-03-2011, 09:55 PM
dont put my name on that I just said he is really athletic for his size. I didnt say he was tim duncan

To be fair, nobody said he was Tim Duncan. We are talking about potential here, if the guy takes care of his character issues. If you take away character, I can't see the limits to his potential. I can easily see him becoming the best C in the league one day - or limiting his carreer by being selfish like Z-Bo.

This is a thread where a 400 minute rookie got compared to T-Mac. So, talk to me about what the guy can't be, not what he is not at the moment. I realised he isn't a guaranteed Hall of Famer yet by myself, thank you. :)

pacer4ever
02-03-2011, 10:03 PM
To be fair, nobody said he was Tim Duncan. We are talking about potential here, if the guy takes care of his character issues. If you take away character, I can't see the limits to his potential. I can easily see him becoming the best C in the league one day - or limiting his carreer by being selfish like Z-Bo.

This is a thread where a 400 minute rookie got compared to T-Mac. So, talk to me about what the guy can't be, not what he is not at the moment. I realised he isn't a guaranteed Hall of Famer yet by myself, thank you. :)

I agree skys the limt for him he is really strong moblie nimble great combo. But i dont ever seeing him living up to his poential but he will still be an elite center thats how gifted he is.

BlueNGold
02-03-2011, 10:04 PM
I'm a sad panda for Paul George right now. If only he had numbers in his rookie year, he might have been a decent player someday. Not anymore. Poor Dirk, and KG, and Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, Yao Ming, Steve Nash, Andrew Bogut, Rajon Rondo and Charles Barkley. They had the talent to be All-NBA, but they never did, because they didn't get star numbers in their rookie years. :(



So, he can maintain incredible strength and mass while staying as agile as anyone of that size and bulk, second only to Dwight. Yet most skinny pansy big men can move as fast. Ok, I can agree with that. He will never beat Kevin Durant or Anthony Randolph in a race or a jumping contest.

Shaq wasn't the fastest and highest jumping 7 footer either, but was he non-athletic? If yes, then we understand athleticism very differently. I only compare to the guys of similar strength.



That I agree to. If Hibbert had strength, and most importantly the mindset to constantly bruise with people, he'd be All NBA. Yet he does not. Which reminds me of multiple torturing experiences while watching Pacers games. Why did you have to bring this up, anyway?

I brought it up to show that Cousins is not that much better than Roy right now...even as bad as Roy's been playing under Jim.

Roy's FG%, FT%, Rebounds, Assists, Assist/Turnover ratio and fouls per minute are all better. Roy averages 1.8 blocks to a paltry 0.8 for the supposedly athletic Cousins.

...and these numbers are after Roy has been playing poorly.

Fact is, when teams have to plan to stop Cousins, then he will get some respect. Until recently, he hasn't shot well at all. Now that he has, he may get the Hibbert treatment...and we shall see just how good he is.

From what I've seen, I see a pretty talented player but hardly a ceiling as high as Paul George's.

ballism
02-03-2011, 10:04 PM
But i dont ever seeing him living up to his poential

Yep, that's probably true.

cdash
02-03-2011, 10:05 PM
I'm about to really start crusading hard against Landry Fields. This has gone too far. Yeah, he got picked way too low. Yeah, he flew way under the radar. We get it. But if they redrafted the 2010 class today no way in ****ing hell is that dude getting picked before Favors, Turner, George, or really anyone with any real potential. If PG was playing on the Knicks, his stats would be through the roof and the hype would be right there with it.

BlueNGold
02-03-2011, 10:09 PM
...on top of that, Roy has had to deal with Jim O'Brien's ridiculous system that Frank Vogel is in the process of dismantling. We really have no idea how good Roy would be in a half court set as poor of a fit for this system that he is.

BlueNGold
02-03-2011, 10:10 PM
I'm about to really start crusading hard against Landry Fields. This has gone too far. Yeah, he got picked way too low. Yeah, he flew way under the radar. We get it. But if they redrafted the 2010 class today no way in ****ing hell is that dude getting picked before Favors, Turner, George, or really anyone with any real potential. If PG was playing on the Knicks, his stats would be through the roof and the hype would be right there with it.

George will be dunking on Fields ala Vince Carter in a few years....and draining threes over him ala Tracy McGrady.

ballism
02-03-2011, 10:12 PM
I brought it up to show that Cousins is not that much better than Roy right now...even as bad as Roy's been playing under Jim.

Roy's FG%, FT%, Rebounds, Assists, Assist/Turnover ratio and fouls per minute are all better. Roy averages 1.8 blocks to a paltry 0.8 for the supposedly athletic Cousins.

...and these numbers are after Roy has been playing poorly.

Fact is, when teams have to plan to stop Cousins, then he will get some respect. Until recently, he hasn't shot well at all. Now that he has, he may get the Hibbert treatment...and we shall see just how good he is.

From what I've seen, I see a pretty talented player but hardly a ceiling as high as Paul George's.

My point is that stats don't capture his potential. It's a fact that he hasn't had a great season so far. Although his month-to-month improvement has been staggering. It's common for potential not to be displayed in overall rookie stats.

cdash
02-03-2011, 10:14 PM
George will be dunking on Fields ala Vince Carter in a few years....and draining threes over him ala Tracy McGrady.

I agree. I just think it's kinda bull **** that Fields is getting all this love. We all know why. Two reasons: He plays in New York and he is playing in the friendliest stat offense in the NBA. From as near as I can tell, the only thing he does really well is rebound. He is a tremendous rebounder for a SG. His outside shooting is good, not great, and it's hard to say what kind of defender he is. No one on the Knickerbockers bothers too much with that end of the court.

BringJackBack
02-03-2011, 10:15 PM
I'm about to really start crusading hard against Landry Fields. This has gone too far. Yeah, he got picked way too low. Yeah, he flew way under the radar. We get it. But if they redrafted the 2010 class today no way in ****ing hell is that dude getting picked before Favors, Turner, George, or really anyone with any real potential. If PG was playing on the Knicks, his stats would be through the roof and the hype would be right there with it.

Yeah, someone sad like Keith Bogans would put up Fields' numbers if he got that kind of PT.. Not to mention Landry has ZERO potential to get too significantly better.

vnzla81
02-03-2011, 10:15 PM
I've always compared Cousins to an older version of Shaq and Roy Hibbert to Ricks Smith.

I also agree with Cdash, if Paul was getting the minutes LF is getting in New York he could be getting huge numbers and of course for been in New York everybody in the media would be comparing him to Tmac or Melo and they(NY)wouldn't even care to make the stupid Melo trade.

BlueNGold
02-03-2011, 10:17 PM
My point is that stats don't capture his potential. It's a fact that he hasn't had a great season so far. Although his month-to-month improvement has been staggering. It's common for potential not to be displayed in overall rookie stats.

I agree. I just don't see a dominant C coming out of him. I suppose my standards might be higher though. I see Paul George as a top 10 player in the entire league someday...if things work out. I simply don't see that for Cousins, in part because of character. But it matters. I don't care about his character because he plays for SAC, but it's still a factor when I gauge where I think a player's career will end. Look at Marbury. Same thing. Tinsley was tremendously talented. All these guys underachieve because their heads are screwed on wrong. So no, I don't get the hype about him. He's going no where.

BringJackBack
02-03-2011, 10:19 PM
Just imagine the hype if Paul George was in the EXACT same situation he's in now, only he had on a Knick uniform. It would be damn-near catastrophic.

ballism
02-03-2011, 10:20 PM
Personally I love Fields for how smart he plays, and the hustle. But the media hype is crazy. There's a reason why Denver prefers Favors + picks over Knicks combos of Fields, Gallo or Chandler and a pick.

cdash
02-03-2011, 10:21 PM
Just imagine the hype if Paul George was in the EXACT same situation he's in now, only he had on a Knick uniform. It would be damn-near catastrophic.

I know. I'm actually fine with that. I like him flying under the radar a little bit. You know it's just a matter of time before he explodes for a 30 point game and makes a few highlight reel dunks. Then people will start taking notice.

BringJackBack
02-03-2011, 10:24 PM
I know. I'm actually fine with that. I like him flying under the radar a little bit. You know it's just a matter of time before he explodes for a 30 point game and makes a few highlight reel dunks. Then people will start taking notice.

The NY love just always pisses me off all the time. Hey media, guess what? They are sinking back to a mediocre team again.

Just wait until 2-3 years when Paul George's jumper is automatic.. He can shoot over anyone with ease and he'll hit some ridiculous shots. Then everyone will have to guard him tight and he'll take it inside and dunk on the biggest, baddest mother****ers in the league.

xBulletproof
02-03-2011, 10:28 PM
\ it's hard to say what kind of defender he is. No one on the Knickerbockers bothers too much with that end of the court.

I don't know enough about him to say either, I'll throw out some stats here. These are the stats for the person George is guarding, vs stats for the guy Fields is guarding.

Again, this is not George or Fields stats, it's the guys they defend. Hopefully nobody gets confused since there's 2 warnings and says my stats are wonky. This is also per 48 minutes.

Fields:

At SG: .474 eFG%, 5.1 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 1.9 turnovers, 21.0 points.

At SF: .438 eFG%, 9.9 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 1.9 turnovers, 15.5 points.

He's played 50% of the total minutes on the year for the Knicks at SG, and 15% of the teams total minutes at SF.

George:

At SG: .438 eFG%, 7.0 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 2.9 turnovers, 19.2 points

At SF: .350 eFG%, 6.1 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 3.3 turnovers, 19.4 points

George has played 9% of our total minutes at SG, and 4% at SF. Small sample sizes for sure. It'll be interesting to keep an eye on for a while.

Day-V
02-03-2011, 10:32 PM
George:

At SG: .438 eFG%, 7.0 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 2.9 turnovers, 19.2 points

At SF: .350 eFG%, 6.1 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 3.3 turnovers, 19.4 points

George has played 9% of our total minutes at SG, and 4% at SF. Small sample sizes for sure. It'll be interesting to keep an eye on for a while.

I like that Paul seems to produce equally no matter if he's the 2 or 3. That's good stuff.


EDIT: Okay, so the FG% at SF kinda sucks, but the points and rebounds are virtually the same.

xBulletproof
02-03-2011, 10:34 PM
I like that Paul seems to produce equally no matter if he's the 2 or 3. That's good stuff.


EDIT: Okay, so the FG% at SF kinda sucks, but the points and rebounds are virtually the same.

Just to avoid confusion .... that's eFG%. It's different than FG%. And you realize these are the numbers of the guy that George is GUARDING, not George himself, correct?

I'm just expecting people to not get that. People skim posts too much. Including me. :)

Merz
02-03-2011, 10:35 PM
EDIT: Okay, so the FG% at SF kinda sucks, but the points and rebounds are virtually the same.

They suck for the guy he is defending...not George himself.

Day-V
02-03-2011, 10:38 PM
Welp, it's official. I'm ****ing stupid. :blush:

xBulletproof
02-03-2011, 10:42 PM
Welp, it's official. I'm ****ing stupid. :blush:

Don't feel bad. I insulted someone the other day assuming they were talking about me.

They weren't.

THAT'S stupid. :happydanc

Day-V
02-03-2011, 10:45 PM
Again, this is not George or Fields stats, it's the guys they defend.


:banghead:

cdash
02-03-2011, 10:50 PM
I don't know enough about him to say either, I'll throw out some stats here. These are the stats for the person George is guarding, vs stats for the guy Fields is guarding.

Again, this is not George or Fields stats, it's the guys they defend. Hopefully nobody gets confused since there's 2 warnings and says my stats are wonky. This is also per 48 minutes.

Fields:

At SG: .474 eFG%, 5.1 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 1.9 turnovers, 21.0 points.

At SF: .438 eFG%, 9.9 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 1.9 turnovers, 15.5 points.

He's played 50% of the total minutes on the year for the Knicks at SG, and 15% of the teams total minutes at SF.

George:

At SG: .438 eFG%, 7.0 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 2.9 turnovers, 19.2 points

At SF: .350 eFG%, 6.1 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 3.3 turnovers, 19.4 points

George has played 9% of our total minutes at SG, and 4% at SF. Small sample sizes for sure. It'll be interesting to keep an eye on for a while.

Great stuff. I love when people bust out stats, because lord knows I'm far too lazy to do it myself.

What this (admittedly small) sample tells me is that George holds the guys he defends to a worse FG%, rebounds are basically a wash, he forces his guys to pass more (maybe I'm stretching there) so they get more assists than LF's guy, he forces many more turnovers, but allows slightly more points. Does that mean he fouls more? Do the guys he guards volume shoot more, thus scoring more points but at a worse percentage?

Hicks
02-03-2011, 10:55 PM
The Paul George stuff is nice, but I was more drawn to this:



The people I've talked to over in Indy seem pretty content with standing pat for now. No team in the league is on deck to have more cap flexibility than the Pacers this summer, and they think they could potentially lure in a pretty big name to put around the solid young pieces they've already got in place. So no, I don't think they do anything with their expiring deals before the deadline, but I do know they're looking forward to seeing what they can do with that money in the offseason.

I almost feel sick that they would feel 'pretty content with standing pat for now'.

I feel even more sick that 'they think they could potentially lure in a pretty big name'. What 'pretty big name'?

xBulletproof
02-03-2011, 10:57 PM
Great stuff. I love when people bust out stats, because lord knows I'm far too lazy to do it myself.

What this (admittedly small) sample tells me is that George holds the guys he defends to a worse FG%, rebounds are basically a wash, he forces his guys to pass more (maybe I'm stretching there) so they get more assists than LF's guy, he forces many more turnovers, but allows slightly more points. Does that mean he fouls more? Do the guys he guards volume shoot more, thus scoring more points but at a worse percentage?

The shot attempts for the guys they guard is almost exactly the same at each position. Paul clearly fouls more, so that's probably extra FT attempts showing up. Per 48 minutes Paul fouls out at each position (6.1 and 6.4), while Fields averages 2.5 and 1.9 fouls at each spot.

spazzxb
02-03-2011, 11:03 PM
Here is the per 36min comparison between Danny rookie year and Paul

Danny per 36min: 7.8reb 1.8asst 12 pts

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/grangda01.html


Paul George per 36min: 6.2reb 1.9asst and 16.3 pts

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html

There is no doubt that Paul is a better player, the only thing that Danny did better was rebound, in every other category PG beats Danny.

Not disagreeing with you about there rookie year, however Danny has a record for 4 consecutive years of improvement. Just something to keep in mind when comparing their rookie years. To be fair George is also lot younger than Danny was as a rookie.

pacer4ever
02-03-2011, 11:05 PM
I don't know enough about him to say either, I'll throw out some stats here. These are the stats for the person George is guarding, vs stats for the guy Fields is guarding.

Again, this is not George or Fields stats, it's the guys they defend. Hopefully nobody gets confused since there's 2 warnings and says my stats are wonky. This is also per 48 minutes.

Fields:

At SG: .474 eFG%, 5.1 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 1.9 turnovers, 21.0 points.

At SF: .438 eFG%, 9.9 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 1.9 turnovers, 15.5 points.

He's played 50% of the total minutes on the year for the Knicks at SG, and 15% of the teams total minutes at SF.

George:

At SG: .438 eFG%, 7.0 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 2.9 turnovers, 19.2 points

At SF: .350 eFG%, 6.1 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 3.3 turnovers, 19.4 points

George has played 9% of our total minutes at SG, and 4% at SF. Small sample sizes for sure. It'll be interesting to keep an eye on for a while.

Under 20 ppg per 48 mins is really good. Plus he is still making rookie mistakes on defense which will help lower this in the next few yrs.

avoidingtheclowns
02-03-2011, 11:24 PM
At :34 in the first video, is that Garth from Wayne's World? :laugh:.

I believe that is Penny Marshall

Schwing.


I feel even more sick that 'they think they could potentially lure in a pretty big name'. What 'pretty big name'?

I assume we're talking Chris Douglas-Roberts or Didier Ilunga-Mbenga; one hyphen and at least 15 letters.

cdash
02-03-2011, 11:41 PM
The Paul George stuff is nice, but I was more drawn to this:



I almost feel sick that they would feel 'pretty content with standing pat for now'.

I feel even more sick that 'they think they could potentially lure in a pretty big name'. What 'pretty big name'?

I have no basis for saying this, but here's my guess: Zach Randolph.

righteouscool
02-03-2011, 11:42 PM
Just to avoid confusion .... that's eFG%. It's different than FG%. And you realize these are the numbers of the guy that George is GUARDING, not George himself, correct?

I'm just expecting people to not get that. People skim posts too much. Including me. :)

That FG% and turnover rate against SF is impressive. How do you find these facts? With that kind of FG% against Paul's gotta be one of th tops in the league in that category. .

pizza guy
02-03-2011, 11:44 PM
I almost feel sick that they would feel 'pretty content with standing pat for now'.

I feel even more sick that 'they think they could potentially lure in a pretty big name'. What 'pretty big name'?

I kinda scratched my head on this as well. The only big name to lure in is gonna be Melo. Having flexibility in the cap is nice, but I'm undecided on what I want the team to do: make a trade for a real difference maker (I don't know who), or see how the rest of this season plays out.

I've been in the "wait and see" camp, just so we could tell if it was honestly the coach or if the players simply aren't as good as we like to believe.

But, like Bird always says, if there's a trade available that clearly improves the team, you've got to pull the trigger. I don't know what that would be, but I am not opposed to making a trade.

I will say, Bird's going to be able to write a bigger check than any other team, and that may be enough to lure the right guy to Indy. Especially when you add a young core that includes a few future All Stars, and a legit All Star in Danny. It's not beyond reason that someone would like to join that type of team. I just don't know who it would be.

vnzla81
02-03-2011, 11:44 PM
The Paul George stuff is nice, but I was more drawn to this:



I almost feel sick that they would feel 'pretty content with standing pat for now'.

I feel even more sick that 'they think they could potentially lure in a pretty big name'. What 'pretty big name'?

Yeah I don't understand the big name thing, AK47 is a big name? Zbo? I just don't see anybody.

Hicks
02-03-2011, 11:58 PM
Maybe Bird thinks he can be the Carmelo Whisperer :chuckle:

vnzla81
02-04-2011, 12:04 AM
Maybe Bird thinks he can be the Carmelo Whisperer :chuckle:

Nene could be one if he doesn't pick his PO, I haven't thought about that but if the Pacers try to get a player like Nene before the trade deadline, they would have to send young players, draft picks and expirings, or they could wait for him not to pick his PO and sign him straight up, the same with Dwest and the other players with PO's.

DrFife
02-04-2011, 12:17 AM
Nene could be one if he doesn't pick his PO, I haven't thought about that but if the Pacers try to get a player like Nene before the trade deadline, they would have to send young players, draft picks and expirings, or they could wait for him not to pick his PO and sign him straight up, the same with Dwest and the other players with PO's.

I consider David West a pretty big name. Similar to Melo, if DWest says he's not signing his option to stay in New Orleans, they may look to trade him - and all we'd have to do is outbid anyone else. The whole thing with ownership by the league is a head-scratcher, though. Maybe Larry is essentially saying, "If I can work out a deal with the league, I'll trade a modest amount -- like TJ and a top 10-protected #1 -- for West now. Otherwise, he knows we're interested in signing him next summer."

Day-V
02-04-2011, 12:20 AM
I consider David West a pretty big name. Similar to Melo, if DWest says he's not signing his option to stay in New Orleans, they may look to trade him - and all we'd have to do is outbid anyone else. The whole thing with ownership by the league is a head-scratcher, though. Maybe Larry is essentially saying, "If I can work out a deal with the league, I'll trade a modest amount -- like TJ and a top 10-protected #1 -- for West now. Otherwise, he knows we're interested in signing him next summer."

And I doubt the league would accept a trade like that, considering how well the Hornets have played this season.

tadscout
02-04-2011, 12:23 AM
The Paul George stuff is nice, but I was more drawn to this:



I almost feel sick that they would feel 'pretty content with standing pat for now'.

I feel even more sick that 'they think they could potentially lure in a pretty big name'. What 'pretty big name'?

That part really sounds different than what Bird was saying in the press conferences (that if we can get a good player via trading our expiring contracts we will)... I wonder who this guys source is.. an intern?

vnzla81
02-04-2011, 12:25 AM
I consider David West a pretty big name. Similar to Melo, if DWest says he's not signing his option to stay in New Orleans, they may look to trade him - and all we'd have to do is outbid anyone else. The whole thing with ownership by the league is a head-scratcher, though. Maybe Larry is essentially saying, "If I can work out a deal with the league, I'll trade a modest amount -- like TJ and a top 10-protected #1 -- for West now. Otherwise, he knows we're interested in signing him next summer."

I guess that if the Pacers are patient they could sign whatever free agent they want for less next year, is possible that with the new CBA the contracts are going to be smaller and shorter making it easier for the Pacers to make deals.

Just look at what Miami gave away to get Lebron and Bosh, nothing, just draft picks and trade exceptions.

xBulletproof
02-04-2011, 12:26 AM
"we feel pretty confident standing pat"

Translated means ....


Hello all opposing NBA GM's. We're willing to deal, but we're not desperate. The trade leverage is ours. We're in a win-win situation. Have a nice day.

ilive4sports
02-04-2011, 12:26 AM
That part really sounds different than what Bird was saying in the press conferences (that if we can get a good player via trading our expiring contracts we will)... I wonder who this guys source is.. an intern?

I'm quite curious about that too. Cause Bird said he didn't have a preference on trading before the deadline or wait til the offseason. It all depends on the offer.

Pacer in Your Face
02-04-2011, 12:27 AM
Not disagreeing with you about there rookie year. To be fair George is also lot younger than Danny was as a rookie.

ballism
02-04-2011, 07:24 AM
...on top of that, Roy has had to deal with Jim O'Brien's ridiculous system that Frank Vogel is in the process of dismantling. We really have no idea how good Roy would be in a half court set as poor of a fit for this system that he is.

You should check Kings forums on Paul Westphaul. Lets just say we aren't the only ones who like to blame the coach. Cousins went starting C - to backup - to starter - to backup - to starting C again - to starting PF. I'm amazed that he manages to improve so much month to month. You'd think a headcase might just hang up and stink it out.

You see, that's why I think any argument that says "rookie overall stats aren't good, no potential, you are drunk" is asinine. You end up looking at one line and dismissing so much info. While on the other hand you look at Hibbert whom you watch every game, and apply all those extenuating circumstances to him that you ignore in Cousins' case - coaching, monthly differences, etc etc.
I don't know that he will ever reach his potential - his character has already hurt him some in his rookie season - but that potential is unlimited. As high as anyone since Shaq. The combo of good hands, toughness, strength and mobility - there's only a few Cs ever who matched that at age 20. But you need to look past overall season stat line to see it.

pacer4ever
02-04-2011, 02:37 PM
You should check Kings forums on Paul Westphaul. Lets just say we aren't the only ones who like to blame the coach. Cousins went starting C - to backup - to starter - to backup - to starting C again - to starting PF. I'm amazed that he manages to improve so much month to month. You'd think a headcase might just hang up and stink it out.

You see, that's why I think any argument that says "rookie overall stats aren't good, no potential, you are drunk" is asinine. You end up looking at one line and dismissing so much info. While on the other hand you look at Hibbert whom you watch every game, and apply all those extenuating circumstances to him that you ignore in Cousins' case - coaching, monthly differences, etc etc.
I don't know that he will ever reach his potential - his character has already hurt him some in his rookie season - but that potential is unlimited. As high as anyone since Shaq. The combo of good hands, toughness, strength and mobility - there's only a few Cs ever who matched that at age 20. But you need to look past overall season stat line to see it.

Most of that was Cousins when he pulled the choke sign out Westpau benched him for that. He just has to make smarter decsions.

ballism
02-04-2011, 03:00 PM
Most of that was Cousins when he pulled the choke sign out Westpau benched him for that. He just has to make smarter decsions.

Maybe he saw Reggie in New York video. When I watched that game I thought it was great, totally reminded me of Reggie and to a lesser extent of something Garnett would do. Too bad Kings choked themselves at the end and lost.
Cousins did do a number of stupid things though - bad decisions, bad body languague, esp during first few months. Arguments with coaches. If he can't get past that, he won't be anything more than a good center instead of being a great one.

That said, swapping around lineups has become so common for Westphaul. From Thompson at 3 to Cousins at 4 to Udrih at 2 and on and on. Sometimes you have to wonder, does Westphaul swap around lineups so much because Kings are underperforming, or are Kings underperforming because of crazy lineup instability. Probably it's both.

McKeyFan
02-04-2011, 03:04 PM
Ricks Smith.

I enjoyed the Dutch to English to Spanish translation

:buddies:.

BlueNGold
02-05-2011, 12:09 AM
...potential is unlimited. As high as anyone since Shaq. The combo of good hands, toughness, strength and mobility - there's only a few Cs ever who matched that at age 20. But you need to look past overall season stat line to see it.

Unlimited potential? I must be watching a different player.

He is getting attention now from the Spurs. It's the 4th quarter and this up and coming superstar is back to shooting the ball poorly....again. He has 5 points on 2 of 7 shooting.

We'll see how he turns out but I seriously doubt he's the best thing since Shaq.

As for potential, he has some. He will give bigger C's some problems because...yes...he moves better than most guys his size. That I agree with. He also has very good hands and plays physical. These are great attibutes. I just don't see a dominant "best thing since Shaq" type of player as you describe him. Again, I see a bigger version of Zach Randolph without the shooting range. I see a guy who will get fouled and get around some big guys with his lateral foot speed. I do not see a guy who will be blocking shots, dunking in traffic and basically dominating the paint.

ballism
02-05-2011, 06:48 AM
Unlimited potential? I must be watching a different player.

He is getting attention now from the Spurs. It's the 4th quarter and this up and coming superstar is back to shooting the ball poorly....again. He has 5 points on 2 of 7 shooting.

We'll see how he turns out but I seriously doubt he's the best thing since Shaq.

As for potential, he has some. He will give bigger C's some problems because...yes...he moves better than most guys his size. That I agree with. He also has very good hands and plays physical. These are great attibutes. I just don't see a dominant "best thing since Shaq" type of player as you describe him. Again, I see a bigger version of Zach Randolph without the shooting range. I see a guy who will get fouled and get around some big guys with his lateral foot speed. I do not see a guy who will be blocking shots, dunking in traffic and basically dominating the paint.

So, you start with 'his season stats aren't amazing, he has no potential', and you end with 'he is having a bad game right now, he has no potential'. Your arguments are trully bulletproof.

You don't see this, you don't see that. Why exactly? Because of current numbers and the game you are watching while typing? Can you check for me, what are Andrew Bogut's blocking numbers for his rookie year, and since then?
Your numbers approach to judging rookies is just wrong, I'm sorry. If you argued that his movement is flawed in some way for a guy his size, that would be interesting. He can't jump as high as Shaq? He's less mobile than a Bogut? Let me hear, because I keep watching their games, and I just can't see it. You however just cite me a statline, watch a game and cite me another statline.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point to argue about this anymore. I'm just too bored to write one more, a no.100 post about how rookies tend to post up and down numbers.
Lets just disagree.