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View Full Version : What does everyone expect tomorrow?



smj887
02-03-2011, 05:17 PM
Tomorrow, I think, will be the best litmus test so far of what we can expect the Vogel Pacers to look like compared to the JOB Pacers. It was just 2 weeks ago that the team faced Portland during the west coast trip, and it was one of those games where they lead by double figures only to blow it in spectacular fashion.

In that game,
-Aldridge had 25 points, 12 boards, and 4 assists.
-Incidentally, Posey put in 20 solid minutes at power forward, giving the team 3 points on 1/3 shooting.
-J-Mac was DNP-CD'ed that game.
-Paul George only got 7 minutes, Dunleavy had 37 while Rush had 24

So, tomorrow, the teams face again. Indiana has home court advantage this time. Vogel's been here for about a week and I think we all realize that Hansbrough and McRoberts will hold down the PF spot. PG should continue to get long minutes while Rush is likely still out, it will be interesting to see how many minutes Dunleavy gets compared to last game and how that impacts the team as a whole.

What do you guys think if the they win? If the team goes out and beats Portland, even by 2 points, I think it tells us that this team's going to be a lot tougher under Vogel. Remember, despite the major amount of suck we've seen over the past several weeks, the Pacers have actually won 3 of their last 4. Additionally, they haven't won 3 straight all season, which they would accomplish by winning here. Basically, tomorrow is the game where the Pacers would traditionally look like a D-league team and have everyone calling for JOB's head the following morning.

If the team loses, then what? I guess we attribute it to Portland actually being a better team, and Vogel only being here a week. Do any of you that expect a noticeable improvement over Vogel lose faith in him a little bit?

PacerPenguins
02-03-2011, 05:21 PM
a win

Speed
02-03-2011, 05:23 PM
I think its a tough call. They will have had what 2 practices, 3 walk throughs. I'm not sure you can put much into tomorrows game. I'm saying that mainly because if they play as they have the last two, I think they lose and I want to believe they are completely headed in the right direction. Not because I'm some huge Vogel fan, but because 90% of what he is doing and intends to do, I agree with.

BringJackBack
02-03-2011, 05:23 PM
If we lose tomorrow, it's probably on Hibbert or Danny having a complete stinker. We're at home, Portland is banged up, and we actually have men guarding Lamarcus now.

I don't expect a win, but I expect the defense to improve with a day off with practice and the turnovers to be cut off a little bit. I also think that Mike will have a good game as Mike almost always has good games at home.

Pacersalltheway10
02-03-2011, 05:25 PM
If we could lead by 18 points in that game earlier we should lead them 36 in this game. Marcus Camby out helps a lot also.

daschysta
02-03-2011, 05:27 PM
I think that we have a very good chance of winning tomorrow. We should have won that game in Portland despite 20 minutes of Posey "guarding" Lemarcus.

Lemarcus will get his, but by feeding hibbert in the post we can actually make him work on defense, maybe he won't be so fresh that he'll shoot about 80 percent on open pick and pop jumpers this time around.

Kegboy
02-03-2011, 05:27 PM
I'll be surprised if we win. Portland may not be as good as they've been the last couple years, but they are much, much better than NJ, Toronto, or Cleveland. We'll need to play significantly better than we have to get it done.

BringJackBack
02-03-2011, 05:29 PM
How good is Portland's defense?

Trophy
02-03-2011, 06:17 PM
How good is Portland's defense?

From what I remember when we played them in Portland, they didn't seem to have an answer for Roy.

They're not terrible defenders, but we need to step up our defense without fouling and take care of the ball.

Tyler and Josh really need to step up against Aldridge. I'm not too worried about the other positions. Just don't give them open shots.

They're a team that takes advantages of sloppy opponents.

Day-V
02-03-2011, 06:20 PM
Didn't Tyler and/or Roy miss the Portland game? I can't remember.

Trophy
02-03-2011, 06:21 PM
Didn't Tyler and/or Roy miss the Portland game? I can't remember.

No.

That was Roy's game back from an illness.

Gold
02-03-2011, 06:23 PM
If a player tweets "good practice today" between now and then, then I say win.

Basically I say it depends on how better they get at the plays they're more often running under vogel. Improving defense at all would also be great. lol.

OakMoses
02-03-2011, 06:23 PM
A loss, and a fairly ugly one.

Will Galen
02-03-2011, 07:26 PM
I think its a tough call. They will have had what 2 practices, 3 walk throughs. I'm not sure you can put much into tomorrows game. I'm saying that mainly because if they play as they have the last two, I think they lose and I want to believe they are completely headed in the right direction. Not because I'm some huge Vogel fan, but because 90% of what he is doing and intends to do, I agree with.

They had 18 turnovers at Portland so I don't think they will do any worse this time. Portland lost at Denver Wed. so this will be the second game on their three game road trip. I think the Pacers will win by a half dozen points.

PacerPenguins
02-03-2011, 08:00 PM
wesley matthews is hurt and i dont expect batum to have a game like he did last time

vnzla81
02-03-2011, 08:01 PM
I think they will win, Portland is injured(Camby,Roy,Matthews,etc,etc) and Posey won't be guarding Aldridge or Pritzila.

gummy
02-03-2011, 08:02 PM
I'm not sure what will happen - I think losing is somewhat more likely. Portland is a better team (questionable with the injuries?) and our guys are going to take some time to adjust to the new rotation and the fact that they are running more plays (also, I suspect Coach V will try to tweak plays a bit if he hasn't already and that could mean another adjustment period).

Either way, I don't think one game tells us much about the Coach Vogel era, particularly not this early on. I'm waiting until we get 10-12 games in before I come to any tentative conclusions, and what I am looking for above all is consistency, player development, and the overall trajectory of things, not necessarily a particular W-L split.

pwee31
02-03-2011, 08:36 PM
I think it will be interesting. One aspect that folks are leaving out is the fact that Andre Miller was sick that game in Portland, and only play a few minutes.

I think if we get off to a good start like we did at the Rose Garden, we should be able to hang on at home. Portland is a really good home team, so if we get off to a good start I think that will do wonders.

Portland is still dangerous with Andre Miller and Aldridge. Batum and Fernandez will once again be the ex factors. Even more with Matthews and his sprained ankle

Kemo
02-03-2011, 08:41 PM
I think there is a good chance that we will pull out a win against Portland..But if not
I won't be terribly upset with a loss, unlike I would be watching a JOB inspired loss...


I fully realize, and expected going INTO this, that with Coach Vogel as with any coaching change.... a transition period.
I honestly expected it to take around 10 games, for our players and coach to "click" , and for us to start really winning alot more games, playing like a good basketball team.

I didn't expect us to win these first games under Vogel , with all the turnovers and no practice.
But our guys and new coach managed to TAKE those wins out the jaws of possible defeat.
To me , that shows testament to their hunger in wanting to win.

After these last few games, and everything I have heard from players and the coach's mouths , I'll say this..
I think BY game 10-12 into Vogel's tenure, we will be playing good enough to take that 7th or 8th spot this year..

I know I'm being a sunshiner persay , but I really see the potential for a radical change in this team.
It will be almost instant.. like a light switch was turned on for this team.. I just have that feeling..
It is bout damn time that lightning strikes in Indiana..
Who's wit me? lol

huber14
02-03-2011, 08:42 PM
A loss and for everyone to come back down to reality.

oxxo
02-03-2011, 09:08 PM
Win.
Unshackled DC >>>>> Andre Miller
Wesley Matthews is out or injured.
Camby out.
Posey won't be guarding Aldridge.

gummy
02-03-2011, 09:28 PM
P.S. It's fun looking through various threads and seeing all the happy, yeehaw, shocked, surprised, inspired, cheerful and sunshiner moods. It's a nice change from the sea of Fire O'Brien we had going on last week.

Marlin
02-03-2011, 09:40 PM
Miller posting up Darren will be a recurring theme tomorrow. How Darren and the team respond to that will be huge in determining the outcome, IMO.

Psyren
02-03-2011, 09:41 PM
It's all up to turnovers.

If we can stop putting grease all over our hands then I think we'll be okay.

If we continue to have "normal" turnovers, plus the ridiculous amount of passes that just slipped through our guys hands, then we won't win.

LG33
02-03-2011, 10:15 PM
Part of the story of last week's game was McMillan's personnel changes (mainly moving Rudy Fernandez to point after Miller's departure and Mills' early struggles) and the lack of response elicited from Coach O'Brien. If something like that happens again, it will be interesting to see how Vogel reponds. He hasn't had to make any decisions like that yet in his brief tenure as head coach.

ilive4sports
02-03-2011, 10:18 PM
I think we can win if we limit our mistakes that we have been making lately. We've really been beating ourselves lately with turnovers and bad defense. Those are things that we can control. And in order to win we need to be better at it. It will come as these guys play more together and as they get used to Vogel, his rotations and style. Tomorrow I expect a loss, but a close one. I think we will have an early lead again, but out sloppy play gets to us. A week or two from now I would say we win this game.

TheDon
02-03-2011, 10:40 PM
If we win tomorrow won't it be the first time all year that we've won 3 in a row?

BringJackBack
02-03-2011, 10:42 PM
If we win tomorrow won't it be the first time all year that we've won 3 in a row?

Yeah.

I just want the game to stay competitive.

idioteque
02-03-2011, 11:56 PM
The Pacers will lose by around 10 points if both teams play at their talent level. I like what Vogel is doing, but his more rational rotations show the Pacers for what they really are: a young team that will take some time to unlearn Obie ball, play defense together, and not turn it over.

We're still a good player and a training camp away from being at least in the mix in the East. We might make the playoffs this year but only because the East sucks.

What is really horrible about this is that we've wasted so much time when it comes to developing our last 4 draft picks into good team players because of the excesses of Obie ball. It's screwed Danny up too although a lot of that seems to be on Danny.

Naptown_Seth
02-04-2011, 12:03 AM
I'll be surprised if we win. Portland may not be as good as they've been the last couple years, but they are much, much better than NJ, Toronto, or Cleveland. We'll need to play significantly better than we have to get it done.
I agree. And as I said in the playoffs thread I just think it's crazy to look at the coaching change as a sign of INSTANT improvement.

I wanted JOB gone so the guys would get the work in now so the team would be much improved NEXT YEAR. If Vogel had taken over last year at this time then certainly I'd be expecting easy wins in games like this, but the rotation change is all of a week old and they can't realistically make any drastic changes to overall strategy.

Right now the change is lots of focus back to Roy and Roy is still struggling. That's fine with me as part of the process, but this idea that RIGHT NOW this is a winning formula is wrong. If Roy could get it together as well as Danny then that's different, but they are a bad night from George away from letting the Cavs beat them.


Sit back and enjoy the development and dream of the payoffs we might be seeing next December.

Sookie
02-04-2011, 12:12 AM
It depends..the young guys are playing..so anything can happen. We can lose to the nets and then go beat Miami. Yes, really..that can happen.

I think Danny Granger will have a good game tomorrow. That's all I'm predicting though.

Day-V
02-04-2011, 12:13 AM
I agree. And as I said in the playoffs thread I just think it's crazy to look at the coaching change as a sign of INSTANT improvement.

I wanted JOB gone so the guys would get the work in now so the team would be much improved NEXT YEAR. If Vogel had taken over last year at this time then certainly I'd be expecting easy wins in games like this, but the rotation change is all of a week old and they can't realistically make any drastic changes to overall strategy.

Right now the change is lots of focus back to Roy and Roy is still struggling. That's fine with me as part of the process, but this idea that RIGHT NOW this is a winning formula is wrong. If Roy could get it together as well as Danny then that's different, but they are a bad night from George away from letting the Cavs beat them.


Sit back and enjoy the development and dream of the payoffs we might be seeing next December.


Do you expect much, if any, improvement after the All-Star Break?

AesopRockOn
02-04-2011, 12:21 AM
All that Portland fans are thinking, "They just barely beat the 20+ losing streak Cavs..."

Hicks
02-04-2011, 12:28 AM
A loss seems likely, but the fun part of what we have now is it's always a bit of a wild card. My fear is our turnovers and poor defense will be abused by Portland to the tune of a solid won by the Trailblazers.

But, again, you never know with a group like ours.

beast23
02-04-2011, 12:39 AM
What I'm anxious to see is whether Granger will continue to take the ball to the rim and draw fouls. I think Granger is a much better player, and the Pacers are a much more competitive team when he is aggressive in that manner.

Other things that I'll be watching are whether we can gain an advantage by having fewer turnovers than Portland and whether we can hold our own on the boards.

With an aggressive Granger, a turnover advantage and McRoberts/Hansbrough rebounding well and getting a few put backs, I like our chances of sneaking out with a win.

PacerGuy
02-04-2011, 12:45 AM
Miller posting up Darren will be a recurring theme tomorrow. How Darren and the team respond to that will be huge in determining the outcome, IMO.

Then Franky-V will just have to unleash Lance on them, wont he... :)

IMO this is a crap shoot. Portland is better, but hurt and on the road. We have played well in spirts, but the overall play has not been that good. Defense is my concern, as it has seemingly regressed quickly.
Reasons for hope (beyond Portlands injuries):
-McBob will be active, & gives us another big to bother LA.
-AJ has adjusted to being "active", & maybe Lance will be active (bigger PG).
-D.Jones playing gives me hope we can use him a a defensively when needed.
-P.George is gaining confidence, & against another young player will play more.
-Posey will not play - & is he does, will not play the 4 or the 5.
-Franky-V, no ice storm, Friday Night crowd, bobble-heads = Home Court Advantage!

beast23
02-04-2011, 01:19 AM
As far as matchups go, I think that SG and SF will be very important for us.

I hope that Vogel uses Dunleavy and George at SG and posts them up early against Fernandez to get a couple of fouls on him. That might reduce some of his minutes and cut into the amount of time that he is used at PG against Collison and Price. point. Otherwise, Vogel may be forced to use Ford some at the point since he has performed defensively far better than our other two PGs.

At SF, I think it is important for Danny to attack and dominate Batum. Get around him and make Aldridge switch. That either gets a couple of fouls on Aldridge or some easy opportunities for Hibbert.

graphic-er
02-04-2011, 01:19 AM
I expect a win because we are gonna pound it on Lamarcus Aldridge early and often. He will be in foul trouble. Lamarcus is the TrailBlazers, and the entire team relies on him to set the tone early. Shut him down and the Blazers will lose.

LA_Confidential
02-04-2011, 01:35 AM
20-27.

joeyd
02-04-2011, 02:11 AM
I agree. And as I said in the playoffs thread I just think it's crazy to look at the coaching change as a sign of INSTANT improvement.

While I think it is not unreasonable to expect an instant improvement, the NFL, MLB and NBA archives are replete with examples of teams that improved with a coaching change WITHOUT changes in player personnel. So it's not that big of a leap of logic. Winning players over and building confidence can have a tremendous effect. I don't think it's crazy to think that we could play just better than .500 ball from here on out.

kester99
02-04-2011, 02:22 AM
They only beat us by 5 pts at Portland. They have more injury issues, we'll be on our own court, and we'll have better personnel rotations than we did before. I see no reason not to win this one, unless a couple of our scorers just have bad shooting nights.

ilive4sports
02-04-2011, 02:55 AM
They only beat us by 5 pts at Portland. They have more injury issues, we'll be on our own court, and we'll have better personnel rotations than we did before. I see no reason not to win this one, unless a couple of our scorers just have bad shooting nights.

Andre Miller didn't play in that game and he will be playing in this one. Even with injuries Portland is a better team than we are.

Day-V
02-04-2011, 03:03 AM
It might not happen tomorrow, but soon (hopefully very soon), Paul's going to just explode and go for a 30+ point game. It has to be coming, right?

Peck
02-04-2011, 03:11 AM
Win or lose at this point doesn't matter much to me because I can be estatic if we win and feel like we are turning a corner or I can shrug off a loss by saying that we now actually are a young team and this is a good learning experiance.

Contrast this to if this were just one week ago my theory would have been if we win we probably slopped up a bunch of outside shots that managed to find the basket but I would take no more of that going forward than I would a 30 point victory of the Nets and if we lost (if I still would have cared by this point) I would probably just be irritated that once again either Tyler or Josh got a DNP-CD and would be boiling mad when someone made the excuse that we were a young team and we make mistakes all the while trying to figure out who was the young player between Posey, Foster, Ford, Granger & Dunleavy.

While I am still distressed that Bird waited so long because I fear that this season may already be a lost cause, I am just now happy even in a loss because I know we are living and dying with our young guys & Foster (who I can live with).

Hoop
02-04-2011, 03:30 AM
Win or lose at this point doesn't matter much to me because I can be ecstatic if we win and feel like we are turning a corner or I can shrug off a loss by saying that we now actually are a young team and this is a good learning experience.

Contrast this to if this were just one week ago my theory would have been if we win we probably slopped up a bunch of outside shots that managed to find the basket but I would take no more of that going forward than I would a 30 point victory of the Nets and if we lost (if I still would have cared by this point) I would probably just be irritated that once again either Tyler or Josh got a DNP-CD and would be boiling mad when someone made the excuse that we were a young team and we make mistakes all the while trying to figure out who was the young player between Posey, Foster, Ford, Granger & Dunleavy.

While I am still distressed that Bird waited so long because I fear that this season may already be a lost cause, I am just now happy even in a loss because I know we are living and dying with our young guys & Foster (who I can live with).
I think you just summed up a lot of our feelings pretty darn well, I know you did mine. :cheers:

Heisenberg
02-04-2011, 03:40 AM
Josh to get whistled for at least 3 "fouls" whenever he touches a guy. I don't know if he's mouthy to the refs or what but he gets no respect from them.

PacersPride
02-04-2011, 11:18 AM
Pacers win.

How well we defend LA will play a significant role, but with 4 players to wear on him with, i expect us to hold him to his average. McRob, Hansbro, Foster, and Hibbert can take turns gaurding LA.

I also expect the Fieldhouse to be packed tonight!

ksuttonjr76
02-04-2011, 11:59 AM
Paul George starting at the SG to match Portland's athletism.

Hicks
02-04-2011, 12:52 PM
They only beat us by 5 pts at Portland. They have more injury issues, we'll be on our own court, and we'll have better personnel rotations than we did before. I see no reason not to win this one, unless a couple of our scorers just have bad shooting nights.

Our defense has regressed.

Speed
02-04-2011, 01:16 PM
I've been thinking about this. I don't take anything from this game. I like what is happening with the Point Guards and the PF rotation and other stuff. I think its going to take some time to adjust to these and other changes. I'm more interested in looking a back at the end of Feb. to see a progression, hopefully.

I think the adjustment is going to take some time.

The biggest thing I hope to see is the closing group gets better at closing, I think that will go a long way to wins. Again, it will be a process, since JMac, DC, and Roy haven't hardly closed games period, especially together. Add in PG, at times. It's uncharted territory.

Side note: Interesting to see PG get an isolation play at the end of the second quarter (I think) in Cleveland. It wasn't successful, but thats not the point, the point is the opportunity he got and to learn. Then to read that the organizations see him as a potential crunch time go-to guy in the future. I hope he gets another chance today, to iso at the end of a quarter, good training. All part of why I want to see where we are in a month versus tonight.

xIndyFan
02-04-2011, 01:20 PM
pacer win.

danny has a good game. a hard played game. good defensive effort.

paul has a good game. darren has trouble with miller, but scores enough to make up for it. roy plays well. roy and darren volume shoot, but do score.

josh and tyler get manhandled by the portland front line. pacers end up switching coverage to put roy and jeff on LA and josh/tyler on pryzbilla.

Pacers4Life
02-04-2011, 01:43 PM
I know I'm being a sunshiner persay , but I really see the potential for a radical change in this team.
It will be almost instant.. like a light switch was turned on for this team.. I just have that feeling..
It is bout damn time that lightning strikes in Indiana..
Who's wit me? lol

I am. Pacers and playoffs FTW. We get the W tonight, Vogel gets the first 3 game winning streak in almost a whole year.. i couldn't believe that its been that long.. but it has

Mr_Smith
02-04-2011, 03:02 PM
Pacers should be able to get this one. They need to get it together on the defensive end. Is Brandon Roy still out???

Heisenberg
02-04-2011, 03:09 PM
Pacers should be able to get this one. They need to get it together on the defensive end. Is Brandon Roy still out???Yes. Maybe for a long, long time.

DaveP63
02-04-2011, 03:20 PM
1. Improve the defensive intensity
2. Fewer turnover
3. Better movement on both ends
4. 20 from Granger and Collison
5. 12 and 8 from Roy

If we get 3 out of 5 and still loose, I can live with that.