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View Full Version : Let's do post-game threads again.. Pacers win!



BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 10:08 PM
Sorry I was late.. Couldn't get on PD for some reason.

I'm going to start up post-game threads again because the games may actually start serving a purpose again. :happydanc

Our player of the game:
Darren Collison
He was the man- 22 and 9

Their player of the game:
Dick Bavetta
I hate this guy

Sloppy game, but our young guys closed out the game well and DC is the man. A couple things though:

-We really need to work on our defense. We're a step late on ev-er-y-thing.

-Danny Granger needs to start playing better. He had a great fourth quarter, but the first three quarters were just bad. He had a great, great, great fourth quarter though.

-PG is the man.

-We need to stop fouling (Of course Bavetta is a Cavs fan soo...)

-I'm happy we won; This was a tough game. I know that it's the Cavs, but they were VERY hungry tonight.

-Last thing: I loved that closing 1/3 PnP from DC to Danny Granger at the end of the game. Amazing play. I've been waiting to see Danny shoot a shot created from someone else all season long. Vogel continues to impress me.

pianoman
02-02-2011, 10:12 PM
All I can say is how disappointed I am with the referees. They really sucked it up tonight.

Marlin
02-02-2011, 10:12 PM
Some love for DC, he added 4 rebounds and 4 steals to the points and assists already mentioned. He played a great offensive game.

But he needs to learn how to defend better the pick and roll. Every team now starts with that screen up top, and he often is left trailing, gotta improve that even if him being so small sure doesn't help.

Unclebuck
02-02-2011, 10:13 PM
Pacers defense was really bad tonight one of our worst defensive gams of the season. Stupid fouls, unable to contain the ball, easily beat off the dribble, poor close outs.

Pacers defense has fallen apart, now it started before JOB was fired, but it has really slipped. No where near what it was for the first two months of the season. Keep in mind the pacers won the first three games against the Cavs rather easily.

JOB would have played Jeff and Posey the last 6 minutes of the game and I think that would have helpd the pacers defense. But Roy and Josh have to leran, but Roy was taken advantage of defensively for most of the game.

Pacers were called for a lot of fouls because they fouled a lot.

vnzla81
02-02-2011, 10:14 PM
Just like I said in the game thread, guys need to calm down when the young guys are making mistakes and no playing the right way, remember that the previous coach was teaching them how to play bad basketball and is going to take a while to remove that from the guys.

Marlin
02-02-2011, 10:15 PM
Side note: Philly and Charlotte won, but Milwaukee is getting clobbered in Phoenix without Bogut.

presto123
02-02-2011, 10:16 PM
May say we struggled to beat the Cavs but this is a good win. A team at home that has lost that many in a row is hungry and will come after you. Agree about the defense. We need to get back to playing defense like we were in November. Team still hasn't totally adjusted to the Hibbert strategy yet and the new wrinkles are creating some turnovers right now. Everybody has more of a green light now but I think they have gotten a little careless with the ball. It will come around. All in all a win and we will take it.

rel
02-02-2011, 10:16 PM
Only complaint from Paul is that he has a hard time with offball defending. Seemed like parker had an easy time getting open and when he did get the ball, PG has a tendency to overcompensate and get burned

Unclebuck
02-02-2011, 10:17 PM
Just like I said in the game thread, guys need to calm down when the young guys are making mistakes and no playing the right way, remember that the previous coach was teaching them how to play bad basketball and is going to take a while to remove that from the guys.

so JOB he was teaching them to get beat of the dribble, close out poorly, be in the wrong position defensively, and foul way too much?

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 10:17 PM
Why do Philly and Charlotte continue to win? :mad:

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 10:17 PM
I'm just concerned with the defense. I don't quite understand whats going on with it as UB is right, the bad defense started when JOB was still coaching. They seemed undisciplined on that end now. I don't know if its just lack of effort or what. Whatever it is, they need to fix it.

pwee31
02-02-2011, 10:19 PM
Whew.. Pacers won the game, that's all that matters at the end of the night. They still have a lot of things to work on, but I feel this is a game the Pacers would have found a way to lose in the past.

They started off really well in the 1st quarter, but as expected, once the Cavs got confidence, they fought hard. Hit 3's, hit their free throws and made the Pacers work.

The Pacers need a practice where all they do is run the pick & roll, and defend the pick & roll.

vnzla81
02-02-2011, 10:19 PM
I could also say that this team reminds me a bit of the LA Clippers in the beggining of the year, they were making stupid mistakes, a lot of TO's and fouling a lot, but after 40+ games they are looking as good as any other team in the NBA, too bad it took this long for our young players to start getting some significant playing time.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 10:20 PM
I also want to point out that Darren Collison is making a lot of plays for others. We just need some more talent at PF and SG to turn those into more assists and wins. DC was very, very good tonight.

Unclebuck
02-02-2011, 10:21 PM
I'm just concerned with the defense. I don't quite understand whats going on with it as UB is right, the bad defense started when JOB was still coaching. They seemed undisciplined on that end now. I don't know if its just lack of effort or what. Whatever it is, they need to fix it.

I know most people thought JOB went with a small lineup to "stretch the floor" and shoot a lot of threes, but really JOB went small to help the defense as much as the offense.

In general the defense needs 4 or 5 days of practice. When there are a lot of games in a short period of time the defense is what suffers

pwee31
02-02-2011, 10:22 PM
Why do Philly and Charlotte continue to win? :mad:

Because they play teams like Detroit and New Jersey (who we also beat)

Come to think of it, have we played the Pistons even once yet this year? It's over halfway through the season, and we haven't played 1 out of 4 yet?

Sookie
02-02-2011, 10:22 PM
I didn't think anyone played particularly well, nor did anyone play horrid.

Defense really has to improve, I'm guessing we'll have to wait for Rush to return for that. But until then, Danny can pick it up.

Dahntay..I like Dahntay..he drove me nuts this game. That might have been one of JOB's better decisions.

Turnovers need to decrease. Once again, that's on Danny. He's our SF and best player. Collison can be turnover prone at times, but he's our second year point guard..and he's controlling the ball most of the time..that's allowed on occassion.

And the offense needs to get better. That's probably not going to come until practice.

Overall, good rotation again. I understood why he played Dun instead of PG. Dun was playing well and it was an away game. It was also a time where you go with the guys that are used to closing some..despite his calm demeanor, Vogel didn't want to lose to the Cavs. :P

And finally, I think we struggled tonight, primarily because neither of our PFs played particularly well. They were probably the worst two players (and even they picked it up in the second half), and that hurt. I think most of the time, one of them will play well and it won't be a problem.

Also, the refs were just awful. I won't go on a rant there, but they were bad..

vnzla81
02-02-2011, 10:25 PM
so JOB he was teaching them to get beat of the dribble, close out poorly, be in the wrong position defensively, and foul way too much?

I'm talking about the young guys, they never got to play that many minutes together and like you said the defense was sucking before the new coach when Jim was still playing TJ,Posey and Foster big minutes.

Kegboy
02-02-2011, 10:25 PM
Dick Bavetta
I hate this guy

:ding:

Noodle
02-02-2011, 10:25 PM
I know most people thought JOB went with a small lineup to "stretch the floor" and shoot a lot of threes, but really JOB went small to help the defense as much as the offense.

In general the defense needs 4 or 5 days of practice. When there are a lot of games in a short period of time the defense is what suhhers

...and that reasoning is why we lost most of the time. A lot. Job was a good coach, but a horrible game and player manager. His rotations and his over-thinking was his doom.

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 10:27 PM
I also want to point out that Darren Collison is making a lot of plays for others. We just need some more talent at PF and SG to turn those into more assists and wins. DC was very, very good tonight.

how much do you think rush will help with all this. i am hoping he plays up to the potential he has with a new coach? maybe Rush finally steps up and plays solid on both ends of the court.

gummy
02-02-2011, 10:28 PM
Do we have to talk about JOB at all? I guess it's too soon to expect otherwise but boy am I tired of it. :(

I'm glad we are able to pull out the win. The defense was terri-bad, we need to get back to basics there. Danny didn't have a good game but I don't think he was as bad as all the "trade him!" calls in the game thread would leave one to believe.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 10:29 PM
how much do you think rush will help with all this. i am hoping he plays up to the potential he has with a new coach? maybe Rush finally steps up and plays solid on both ends of the court.

I'm hoping, but I think a good SG (Iggy, Martin etc.. But I don't want this to turn into a trade discussion thread) would help out a lot more than Rush/Dun ever could. We just need someone that can create their own shot BADLY.

At this point Rush is just a defender and a three point shooter.

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 10:31 PM
Dahntay..I like Dahntay..he drove me nuts this game. That might have been one of JOB's better decisions.


DJ is a solid role player off the bench. He has been inactive for most of the season, you are aware players need a few games back to get in game conditioning.

once D Jones is getting some rhythem it will be time for Rush to return..

Jones is a solid veteran presence to have around.

Unclebuck
02-02-2011, 10:34 PM
Do we have to talk about JOB at all? I guess it's too soon to expect otherwise but boy am I tired of it. :(




I think it is instructive to discuss the differences and some of the advantages and of the different approaches

Noodle
02-02-2011, 10:34 PM
I want to see how Rush plays under Vogul. Hibbert and others had their egos destroyed and are now playing free it seems. Rush might suprise us, at least I hope.

rel
02-02-2011, 10:37 PM
VOGEL with an E

i've seen it with an A and U already :P

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 10:38 PM
I'm hoping, but I think a good SG (Iggy, Martin etc.. But I don't want this to turn into a trade discussion thread) would help out a lot more than Rush/Dun ever could. We just need someone that can create their own shot BADLY.

At this point Rush is just a defender and a three point shooter.

True, but were not in panic mode at all, and have plenty of young talent to develop. im okay with giving Rush a chance under a new coach.

taking more of a long-view perspective, iggy and martin are good players, but not willing to give up our assets to acquire em. expirings are fine and draft pick. otherwise, i have feeling rush may be ready step up.. and if not we move forward with George, and maybe sign a vet like Crawford over the summer.

anyways, dont wanna turn it into a trade thread either. content to see how this team continues to improve.

Sookie
02-02-2011, 10:39 PM
DJ is a solid role player off the bench. He has been inactive for most of the season, you are aware players need a few games back to get in game conditioning.

once D Jones is getting some rhythem it will be time for Rush to return..

Jones is a solid veteran presence to have around.

I like D Jones, and I agree it takes a while. But what he was doing today that bothered me, was the stuff he always did. AKA, never looking at anyone but the basket.

I think he's a good player. But I thought with JOB gone, he'd realize he doesn't have to score in order to get playing time..so he'd play more within himself.

edit: Also, Danny's not a good ballhandler. So I'm hoping this summer, he developes a really good post up game. He tries some now, but it doesn't work too well. I think that would help his game some.

Noodle
02-02-2011, 10:40 PM
I think it is instructive to discuss the differences and some of the advantages and of the different approaches

The approach is basically the same so far, just better play calling and player rotations. Guys know their job. It builds consistency, so there is really no good reason to argue approaches outside of rotations at this point. Small ball really didnt work to well this season. Did it?

Buck it seems your either just stirring up the pot or your really bitter about Jim being fired.

Cherokee
02-02-2011, 10:40 PM
"Their player of the game:
Dick Bavetta
I hate this guy"

-----------

I didn't think Bavetta was all that bad before he died of old age. Now, he does a terrible job.

Spirit
02-02-2011, 10:40 PM
The Cavs really aren't as bad as their record. They showed it tonight.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 10:41 PM
I think it is instructive to discuss the differences and some of the advantages and of the different approaches

Main differences:

Vogel plays best talent available that fits to close games. DC/Dun/Granger/McRoberts/Hibbert

Vogel will play the best players, unless if someone is hot.

JOB plays based off of what the other team is doing. DC/Dun/Granger/Posey/Foster

Jim will look at matchups and try to make them fit, oft times trying way too hard.

Vogel makes a conceited effort to keep players happy.

We've seen it a thousand times.

Jim tries to light a fire under guys. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

We've seen it work, and we've seen it miserably fail.

Vogel is comitted to traditional lineups.

Two bigs, two wings, and a point guard.

Jim thinks outside the box (Way too much)

One big, two wings, and two point guards.

Just a couple.

Unclebuck
02-02-2011, 10:41 PM
Buck it seems your either just stirring up the pot or your really bitter about Jim being fired.

No, not at all, just discussing what I see in the games

Trophy
02-02-2011, 10:42 PM
Why do Philly and Charlotte continue to win? :mad:

I can't stand either of those teams.

I can't believe the Bobcats are still up in the standings.

They're not that good and I don't think they will make the playoffs and Philly is still up in the air.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 10:42 PM
edit: Also, Danny's not a good ballhandler. So I'm hoping this summer, he developes a really good post up game. He tries some now, but it doesn't work too well. I think that would help him game some.

This x1000

I think he has some potential as a post-up guy. Not so much that has anything to do with dribbling.

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 10:46 PM
I like D Jones, and I agree it takes a while. But what he was doing today that bothered me, was the stuff he always did. AKA, never looking at anyone but the basket.

I think he's a good player. But I thought with JOB gone, he'd realize he doesn't have to score in order to get playing time..so he'd play more within himself.

edit: Also, Danny's not a good ballhandler. So I'm hoping this summer, he developes a really good post up game. He tries some now, but it doesn't work too well. I think that would help him game some.

yea, i knew you were aware players need a few games to get back performing at a max level.

very true, and DJones is mainly known for his defensive abilities, at least thats what he was brought here for. nvertheless, rush will be returning soon and hoping he plays with a little assertiveness. we know what Djones gives us. time for Rush to make a consistent impact.

i dont know bout everyones thoughts on it, but i like that Granger is trying to score from the post, he could be very effective from there. also like he is not forcing 3's anymore. the whole team for that matter, very unselfish basketball.

Sookie
02-02-2011, 10:46 PM
This x1000

I think he has some potential as a post-up guy. Not so much that has anything to do with dribbling.

Yea, and I'm begging for some more screens for Danny..I wonder if DC could play the Pick and pop with Danny. Granted, I'd doubt that teams would leave Danny as open as they leave Hans and Josh.

Speaking of a midrange shot, has DC missed one in the past 2 games? He's been red hot since JOB was fired..

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 10:49 PM
Main differences:

Vogel plays best talent available that fits to close games. DC/Dun/Granger/McRoberts/Hibbert

Vogel will play the best players, unless if someone is hot.

JOB plays based off of what the other team is doing. DC/Dun/Granger/Posey/Foster

Jim will look at matchups and try to make them fit, oft times trying way too hard.

Vogel makes a conceited effort to keep players happy.

We've seen it a thousand times.

Jim tries to light a fire under guys. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

We've seen it work, and we've seen it miserably fail.

Vogel is comitted to traditional lineups.

Two bigs, two wings, and a point guard.

Jim thinks outside the box (Way too much)

One big, two wings, and two point guards.

Just a couple.

spot on. everyone under the sun knew the best lineup for this team was a traditional one.

DC/Price
Dun/Rush
Granger/George
McRob/Hansbro
Hibbert/Foster

Im sure there are reasons why Obrien did not start out with that lineup, but Posey.. its deja vu all over with Murphy. Murphy found his true place on a team under Johnson.

not missing obrien at all.

Unclebuck
02-02-2011, 10:49 PM
Yea, and I'm begging for some more screens for Danny..I wonder if DC could play the Pick and pop with Danny. Granted, I'd doubt that teams would leave Danny as open as they leave Hans and Josh.

Speaking of a midrange shot, has DC missed one in the past 2 games? He's been red hot since JOB was fired..

In what was maybe the most important ofensive possession of the game, they did a pick and roll with Darren and danny - danny got a nice open three.

Noodle
02-02-2011, 10:50 PM
No, not at all, just discussing what I see in the games

Do you really think Posey would have helped? Or, Foster and Posey would have been a better closing lineup, or Foster and Hans/Mcbob? Roy, who gets exposed regularly, challenged a shot on Parker late in the game because of his length. Foster would have got burned. That was critical play. The big fella gets burned, but that standing reach is not to be under-valued. Posey can't play defense better than Josh. In fact, Josh would do a better job of guarding a 3 than Posey too. Posey is done.

Trophy
02-02-2011, 10:52 PM
Danny stepped up big in the closing minutes.

He got his FT touch back and made 12-13 of them tonight.

For the most part, he didn't settle for bad shots, just bad passes that hurt us in the 3rd quarter.

He made a smart pass to an open DC.

LoneGranger33
02-02-2011, 10:52 PM
How does a team that's lost 22 straight games, has it's best two players injured, and is located in one of the smaller markets in the NBA still draw 18,000+ fans in a matchup against the Indiana Pacers? Can anyone explain that? Cleveland is putting us to shame folks.

Sookie
02-02-2011, 10:52 PM
In what was maybe the most important ofensive possession of the game, they did a pick and roll with Darren and danny - danny got a nice open three.

Right, and it was a good play. But I was wondering if Darren and Danny could do that more often, but with setting Danny up with a midrange shot. (Like we do for Hans)

Even then, I'd like to see Danny running off screens/picks from other players, you know..maybe our powerforward or our center could set one for him..

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 10:53 PM
Speaking of a midrange shot, has DC missed one in the past 2 games? He's been red hot since JOB was fired..

not many i can recall.. only the tear drop jumper he missed in the 2nd i think where he was a little indecisive being so open and having options on the wings. good shot selection though.

are we taking less 3's under Vogel?

PaceBalls
02-02-2011, 10:55 PM
I am trying to be a sunshiner...
But god that was f'n awful.. IU could have beat the Cavs tonight. At least they didn't blow it. They better bring it next game. God that makes me feel better, maybe I am just a darksider at heart. go pacers?

cdash
02-02-2011, 10:56 PM
How does a team that's lost 22 straight games, has it's best two players injured, and is located in one of the smaller markets in the NBA still draw 18,000+ fans in a matchup against the Indiana Pacers? Can anyone explain that? Cleveland is putting us to shame folks.

Cleveland's fan aren't as fairweather as Indianapolis fans. Sorry people. Harsh truth.

Noodle
02-02-2011, 10:56 PM
Danny stepped up big in the closing minutes.

He got his FT touch back and made 12-13 of them tonight.

For the most part, he didn't settle for bad shots, just bad passes that hurt us in the 3rd quarter.

He made a smart pass to an open DC.

Danny seems to be attacking in the half-court set. Rather than camping or easy to defend screen. He can get to the line, but more importantly. as you said, he is drawing people and kicking it back out. He has been doing this better all year. I would like to see him stay aggresive. It helps the team alot when he distributes and gets to the line.

Unclebuck
02-02-2011, 10:56 PM
Right, and it was a good play. But I was wondering if Darren and Danny could do that more often, but with setting Danny up with a midrange shot. (Like we do for Hans)

Even then, I'd like to see Danny running off screens/picks from other players, you know..maybe our powerforward or our center could set one for him..

when you do a 1-3 pick and roll it makes it easier for the defense to just switch, so it depends who the defenders are. but one of the biggest reasons why most teams use a point guard and center pick and roll is becaue almost no team can switch that and it brings the biggest defender away from the basket.

Pacers back in the day used to do a Reggie and mark jackson pick and roll, but they used it in order to get the defense to switch and it was quite effective.

smj887
02-02-2011, 10:56 PM
How does a team that's lost 22 straight games, has it's best two players injured, and is located in one of the smaller markets in the NBA still draw 18,000+ fans in a matchup against the Indiana Pacers? Can anyone explain that? Cleveland is putting us to shame folks.

Cavs don't have the brawl haunting them, and to a lesser degree don't have Peyton Manning in the same market.

Plus, even though they don't have LeBron, they are still coming off a ton of 60 win seasons and playoff expectations. Give the team a few years of sucking and people there, unfortunately, will lose their dedication just as many fans in Indy have.



Anyone else trust PG shooting the 3 a hell of a lot more than Danny now? If PG gets to close out some games and get used to playing at the last second, I'd almost venture to say that I'd give him the last shot over anyone else on the team just because that thing looks so pretty.

hoosierguy
02-02-2011, 10:57 PM
How does a team that's lost 22 straight games, has it's best two players injured, and is located in one of the smaller markets in the NBA still draw 18,000+ fans in a matchup against the Indiana Pacers? Can anyone explain that? Cleveland is putting us to shame folks.

Having Lebron James play there for the past seven seasons created a large and rabid fanbase that will take awhile to dissipate.

The same thing will likely happen to the Colts when Peyton Manning retires.

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 10:57 PM
Danny stepped up big in the closing minutes.

He got his FT touch back and made 12-13 of them tonight.

For the most part, he didn't settle for bad shots, just bad passes that hurt us in the 3rd quarter.

He made a smart pass to an open DC.

speaking of closing minutes.. just an idea but if vogel inserted foster into the lineup for josh, i would have liked the move.

foster and roy will rarely play together i know, but with a few minutes to go in a game it could be a nice lil change of frontcourt rotation players. foster can d up players like jamison.. ?

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 10:59 PM
Cleveland's fan aren't as fairweather as Indianapolis fans. Sorry people. Harsh truth.

we will see about that one in 5 years. once the lotto picks become busts.. i dont see a quick rebuid in cleveland.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 10:59 PM
How does a team that's lost 22 straight games, has it's best two players injured, and is located in one of the smaller markets in the NBA still draw 18,000+ fans in a matchup against the Indiana Pacers? Can anyone explain that? Cleveland is putting us to shame folks.

Honestly, there is no way that I could ever support a team like Cleveland that is that bad and refuses to rebuild- team loyalty or not. I have no idea why those 18,000 people support it either.

graphic-er
02-02-2011, 10:59 PM
How does a team that's lost 22 straight games, has it's best two players injured, and is located in one of the smaller markets in the NBA still draw 18,000+ fans in a matchup against the Indiana Pacers? Can anyone explain that? Cleveland is putting us to shame folks.

I'll tell you why, most likely Cleveland made a push for their season ticket holders to renew the packages way before the end of the season last year, and before Lebron's decision.

Also most teams make you buy your playoff tickets in series packages, I'm sure with the Cavs you were expected to commit to an entire 16 playoff games. So those unused games are refunded as a credit for the next season.

Sookie
02-02-2011, 11:00 PM
when you do a 1-3 pick and roll it makes it easier for the defense to just switch, so it depends who the defenders are. but one of the biggest reasons why most teams use a point guard and center pick and roll is becaue almost no team can switch that and it brings the biggest defender away from the basket.

Pacers back in the day used to do a Reggie and mark jackson pick and roll, but they used it in order to get the defense to switch and it was quite effective.

True, but I'd be okay with Danny shooting a free throw line jumper over most point guards in the league.

I just really think we need to create a few plays to get Danny good shots. He's really not good at creating for himself, but he's our best player..so we need to help him. I'm hoping Vogel will recognize this.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 11:01 PM
In what was maybe the most important ofensive possession of the game, they did a pick and roll with Darren and danny - danny got a nice open three.

I loved this play. Best play of the season to close out a game so far this season. Loved, loved this play. Too bad it didn't go down.. But Danny was wide open and Darren had multiple options.

Noodle
02-02-2011, 11:01 PM
I am trying to be a sunshiner...
But god that was f'n awful.. IU could have beat the Cavs tonight. At least they didn't blow it. They better bring it next game. God that makes me feel better, maybe I am just a darksider at heart. go pacers?

Dude, I thought Cleveland played as hard as they could. They are hungry. The law of averages says they are due a victory and they thought they had one. They were aggresive the whole game. Pacers had a poor defensive showing and still fought it out. Cleveland could have beat another team with their effort tonight. I mean, come on, we actually close a game. Even against bottom feeders that is a step forward for this team.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 11:03 PM
Dude, I thought Cleveland played as hard as they could. They are hungry. The law of averages says they are due a victory and they thought they had one. They were aggresive the whole game. Pacers had a poor defensive showing and still fought it out. Cleveland could have beat another team with their effort tonight. I mean, come on, we actually close a game. Even against bottom feeders that is a step forward for this team.

Yeah I would have much rather played a good team tonight.. Cleveland wanted one BAD. It almost felt like a playoff atmosphere based on how hard Cleveland was playing.

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 11:07 PM
Yeah I would have much rather played a good team tonight.. Cleveland wanted one BAD. It almost felt like a playoff atmosphere based on how hard Cleveland was playing.

we were up by 17 in this game. almost seems like all these young players are too nice and did not want to embarrass the cavs. we shoulda blew this team out by 20... its understandable with the circumstances.

we gave cleveland a chance to get back in it and they played hard from there.

PaceBalls
02-02-2011, 11:07 PM
How does a team that's lost 22 straight games, has it's best two players injured, and is located in one of the smaller markets in the NBA still draw 18,000+ fans in a matchup against the Indiana Pacers? Can anyone explain that? Cleveland is putting us to shame folks.

It's all the season tickets they sold because of LeBron. Their market dept was very smart in getting people to buy the tix before they sold out. Next year you will see the empty seats again or at the latest, the year after. No one wants to see a loser team year after year and no one wants to join a loser team, especially in a cold, snowy town in the heartland.

Really, agro owner aside and all, it is a very sad tale, and it is very relevant to us here in Indy. Star player leaves awesome team and it goes to crap, no one wants to go there with the ability to get max contracts anywhere they want... I hope they get the CBA right this time. Cause it is all about the small market teams. That is what is the soul of the NBA and they better not blow it.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 11:09 PM
we were up by 17 in this game. almost seems like all these young players are too nice and did not want to embarrass the cavs. we shoulda blew this team out by 20... its understandable with the circumstances.

we gave cleveland a chance to get back in it and they played hard from there.

Agree to disagree IG.. After we went up, I think Byron really lit a fire under their asses. Leads disappear a lot around the league.

docpaul
02-02-2011, 11:11 PM
Cleveland's fan aren't as fairweather as Indianapolis fans. Sorry people. Harsh truth.

Cleveland is still in the season ticket honeymoon stage. Let's see what their attendance looks like next year.

Noodle
02-02-2011, 11:11 PM
How does a team that's lost 22 straight games, has it's best two players injured, and is located in one of the smaller markets in the NBA still draw 18,000+ fans in a matchup against the Indiana Pacers? Can anyone explain that? Cleveland is putting us to shame folks.

I noticed that. Cleveland's economy is really bad too. Even the fans were hungry tonight. The were the sixth man of the game. I think they tought we were going to be the team to beat. A coaching change, coming off what was a somewhat emotional victory. Sometimes teams that win a big game fall flat the next time out. Beating Toronto is not saying much, but the circumstances played a roll in making it a little emotional victory.

CircleCity3318
02-02-2011, 11:18 PM
How does a team that's lost 22 straight games, has it's best two players injured, and is located in one of the smaller markets in the NBA still draw 18,000+ fans in a matchup against the Indiana Pacers? Can anyone explain that? Cleveland is putting us to shame folks.

The cavs tv crew also said there weren't as many people there due to the weather. I wish the Pacer's fanbase could come out to the games like the cavs fans do.

vnzla81
02-02-2011, 11:18 PM
Cleveland is still in the season ticket honeymoon stage. Let's see what their attendance looks like next year.

Who knows they might get lucky in the draft and get another franchise player, at least they are smart enough to suck big time and make sure they get a good pick( something the Pacers failed to do)

PaceBalls
02-02-2011, 11:21 PM
Who knows they might get lucky in the draft and get another franchise player.

I am trying to figure out who that top franchise player is who will make them relevant again in the next draft.

I aint seeing it. Maybe I need to watch more college ball.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 11:24 PM
Who knows they might get lucky in the draft and get another franchise player, at least they are smart enough to suck big time and make sure they get a good pick( something the Pacers failed to do)

If we would have tried to do that, we may have been stuck trying to do that for the next 10-15 years like a lot of franchises have had to do like Chicago, Los Angeles Clippers, and what Golden State is currently doing. That hypothetical crap is moot.

Bball
02-02-2011, 11:27 PM
How does a team that's lost 22 straight games, has it's best two players injured, and is located in one of the smaller markets in the NBA still draw 18,000+ fans in a matchup against the Indiana Pacers? Can anyone explain that? Cleveland is putting us to shame folks.

They are rallying around their team this season after being contenders and the center of a lot of hype for the Lebron years. They have a new coach so that gives the team a bit of a honeymoon period with the fans.

But the fans will drop like flies if the team keeps losing over the next several months and seasons. Add in some unlikable players that quit on the team or think they are above the team.... and it will happen quicker....

If the players continue to play hard and give their all and management can bring in some players (through the draft or FA) to give the fans some hope and it will happen more slowly.

But rest assured, Cleveland fans are no different than Indy fans. Indy's fanbase didn't dissolve overnight. It took some bad management and bad luck and a prolonged rebuilding process that the team tried to sidestep (and couldn't). Cleveland's fanbase won't dissolve overnight either.


I mean it's not been that many years ago when Sacramento was the team with supposedly the most rabid fans, yada yada yada... And where are they now?

Folks... Indy fans are no different than anywhere else. Win and you build fans. Lose and you lose them...

vnzla81
02-02-2011, 11:32 PM
Cleveland's fan aren't as fairweather as Indianapolis fans. Sorry people. Harsh truth.

Give them JOB for three years and they won't be fans anymore.

vnzla81
02-02-2011, 11:34 PM
I am trying to figure out who that top franchise player is who will make them relevant again in the next draft.

I aint seeing it. Maybe I need to watch more college ball.

There is always somebody in every draft, but I don't really know is that guy now.

Hicks
02-02-2011, 11:39 PM
Another really, really sloppy game.

It's not hard to see why Jim O'Brien did some of the things he did, even if I still aggressively disagree with his decisions.

I think the only way to move forward in the long run is to take these lumps, pray you win a fair amount of games in the process, and hope that they will eventually learn and tighten things up.

I just wish we'd started this a long, long time ago so we'd be further along with this by now. Either we'd be closer to them figuring things out, or we'd be closer to concluding they never will and trying to move on from them.

But again, this is what it takes for long term growth, so we just have to try to grin and bear it. I'm expecting a brutal experience against Portland and Miami (twice, ugh) unless they figure things out quickly, but they can hang around against the others these next couple of weeks.

We need Danny to get going, and obviously our defense must improve. Drives me nuts when we leave a guy WIDE OPEN out there from long range, but of course there's also problems with cutting off drivers and with some stupid fouls.

All that said, as much as the Pacers were damning themselves out there, I sure felt these refs made it worse tonight. I hate the ones who don't call what seems obvious, but do call what doesn't seem necessary. Oh, and they bought every trick Antwan Jamison was pulling out there, too. And I got so damned sick of watching Roy, Josh, and Tyler get fouled/shoved without a whistle. When they do it, it's a foul, when they receive it, play on. *growl*

aero
02-02-2011, 11:40 PM
We really need to work on the turn overs and fouling, I think the Cavs had something in the neighborhood of 45+ free throws ? ..not good.

Sookie
02-02-2011, 11:51 PM
Another really, really sloppy game.

It's not hard to see why Jim O'Brien did some of the things he did, even if I still aggressively disagree with his decisions.

I think the only way to move forward in the long run is to take these lumps, pray you win a fair amount of games in the process, and hope that they will eventually learn and tighten things up.

I just wish we'd started this a long, long time ago so we'd be further along with this by now. Either we'd be closer to them figuring things out, or we'd be closer to concluding they never will and trying to move on from them.

But again, this is what it takes for long term growth, so we just have to try to grin and bear it. I'm expecting a brutal experience against Portland and Miami (twice, ugh) unless they figure things out quickly, but they can hang around against the others these next couple of weeks.

We need Danny to get going, and obviously our defense must improve. Drives me nuts when we leave a guy WIDE OPEN out there from long range, but of course there's also problems with cutting off drivers and with some stupid fouls.

All that said, as much as the Pacers were damning themselves out there, I sure felt these refs made it worse tonight. I hate the ones who don't call what seems obvious, but do call what doesn't seem necessary. Oh, and they bought every trick Antwan Jamison was pulling out there, too. And I got so damned sick of watching Roy, Josh, and Tyler get fouled/shoved without a whistle. When they do it, it's a foul, when they receive it, play on. *growl*

The Pacers need to primarily cut down on the turnovers and play better defense, and I think they can at least compete in their next few games..

This is part of having a young team. They'll play poorly..really poorly sometimes. And sometimes..they'll beat teams they aren't supposed to beat. We just get to wait and see..and hopefully most will enjoy the ride.

PacerGuy
02-03-2011, 12:04 AM
Cleveland will be hosting Washington (27 straight road losses) in < a week. Something must give. This will be the a streak-breaker" for someone, as there are no ties in the NBA.

pizza guy
02-03-2011, 12:27 AM
I didn't get to watch the first half, save the last few minutes before halftime as the lead evaporated, but here's what I saw.

THE PACERS WON A CLOSE GAME!!

The fouling and defense was maddening, but the offense seemed a little better executed tonight compared to the Toronto game. I think these things will improve as the guys get used to a rotation and consistency.

Paul George has the sweetest jumper on this team. I really hope he grows and learns and develops into what the best he can be.

Roy Hibbert needs to spend this offseason eating Wheaties and working out with Hansbrough. The man is 7'2" and has plenty of skill, but he's just not strong enough to dominate like he should. Hans, on the other hand, has muscle to spare. I love watching him go for a rebound because you just know nothing is gonna stand in his way. Tyler needs to rub off on Roy, and give the Big Fella a little mean streak.

DC is well on his way to becoming an All Star point guard. 22pts/9ast/4rbs/4st from DC tonight is a darn good performance. Plus, only 3 turnovers tonight. If he can keep this up, he can lead this team to a lot of wins.

Danny hasn't had his best statistical games under Vogel, but I don't think he's playing poorly. What I really like is that he seems (to me anyways) to be attacking the rim a little more. He should spend the offseason with McRoberts and learn how FINISH at the rim. Danny's a strong enough guy, but he goes to the rack like he's afraid of something. Throw it down, Danny!

Josh and Tyler were....wait for it.....irrelevant tonight. :brick: I didn't feel like either one of them played exceptionally well, and like someone said earlier in this thread (Sookie, maybe?) had one of them played better, this game would've been much easier.

I don't want to overlook AJ Price. He didn't have some monster game or do anything special, but I think he deserves credit for simply not being TJ Ford. When Price comes in, I have as much confidence in him as anyone to make sound decisions and score a few points. Compared to TJ, whose mission in life is to find a new way to lose in every game, AJ is a breath of fresh air.

One thing that I think we can all agree on, is that we like Vogel's increased focus on getting Roy good looks close to the basket, and the increased PnR/PnPs that we see DC running. What I think we need to realize is that these changes are probably the reasons we've seen Danny's numbers drop. We all wanted Danny to get some help, and Vogel seems to think that's a good idea. Now that Danny is getting help, we're wondering why his numbers are down, but it's pretty obvious. He had 23 pts tonight, on the strength of a solid 4th Q that included a big 3pt shot and an assist on a big 3pt shot, but look at the rest of the team. 22 from DC, 13 from Hans, Roy, and George, 15 from Dun...this is a good thing, folks. As the team adjusts to some of the new wrinkles and emphases, Danny will adjust and his numbers will level out.

All in all, this team is better than barely beating the Cavs, but there are a lot of factors that went into this game. That's not saying that if they play like this against the Celtics that they won't get destroyed, but I think there are legitimate reasons for not blowing out the Cavs. They need to play better, especially on defense, and I think they will. With each passing game, you can see a little more confidence, IMO. Against Toronto, Roy had his groove. Tonight, DC played great. In the next game, maybe Paul George explodes for 30 pts. The big thing is I feel they're actually learning to win. With JOB, it was like we'd just hope to hang on. Tonight's game was won because Vogel put the onus on the players and they rose to the occasion with big shots (DC), big defensive play (Roy), and confident, smart play from their leader (Danny).

Midcoasted
02-03-2011, 12:47 AM
This is how bad the refs were tonight. I turned on the game tonight a little late and I saw a bunch of really bad calls. I was like "man, this is Bavetta like bad, and if he's reffing that we are screwed because he's terrible." Sure enough I seen his old *** blow a terrible call a few plays later. Do these refs stay in teams? Because the other refs were just as bad tonight.

I mean what do TPTB think we are all mindless sheep? My biggest problem with the league is it seems fixed to an extent. Tonight, and other nights, it's alot more obvious.

I agree with Hicks it is getting sickening see our post guys get mugged, and then on the other end of the floor the refs turn a block by one of our guys into a phantom foul.

Midcoasted
02-03-2011, 12:50 AM
Oh and the best thing about tonight? No motion offense and Hibbert, McRoberts, and Collison close out a close game, and we win? Who'd a thunk it? :hmm:

PacersPride
02-03-2011, 12:50 AM
Tyler needs to rub off on Roy, and give the Big Fella a little mean streak.


could not agree more with this statement. good post.

Jon Theodore
02-03-2011, 12:51 AM
Just like I said in the game thread, guys need to calm down when the young guys are making mistakes and no playing the right way, remember that the previous coach was teaching them how to play bad basketball and is going to take a while to remove that from the guys.

Just stop with this garbage...it's becoming a bad joke. I didn't like O'brien and it was his time to go, but he is well respected in the league as a good coach...he didn't teach anybody how to play "Bad basketball." I am not even going to go further, I will say the man certainly has his faults...but he didn't get to where he is now by "teaching bad basketball"

I am as happy to see O'brien gone as anybody and so far I love Vogel, but seriously bring SOMETHING new to the table....I am sure you are capable of it.

ilive4sports
02-03-2011, 12:57 AM
Roy does need to put on muscle. Him losing weight was good because he lost fat. I don't think he lost any strength this last summer. He never was that strong. Being at the lower weight just means he is pushed around more. I've said it multiple times he needs to work on his core and his legs. Upper body isn't as important when banging bodies in the post. Plus putting on up top will hurt his knees, ala Jermaine O'Neal.

And by saying that let me also say that it is incredibly unrealistic for him to have done it this past summer. He is still retooling his body now. I think if he focuses on strength this summer it will make him much better to go with the conditioning he focused on last summer.

Jon Theodore
02-03-2011, 12:58 AM
I'm talking about the young guys, they never got to play that many minutes together and like you said the defense was sucking before the new coach when Jim was still playing TJ,Posey and Foster big minutes.

Just for the record...O'briens rotation (widely criticized, even by people qualified to do so) and "Teaching bad basketball" are two totally seperate topics. When you say he is "Teaching bad basketball" that does not imply to me anything regarding how many minutes the young players play together.

Your initial post regarding "teaching bad basketball" was clearly not "talking about the young guys" and if it was your intention, then you need to work on your communication skills.


Had you said "Remember guys, a lot of our young guys haven't played extended minutes together due to O'briens erratic rotations." It would have been very clear what you meant. But I am just not seeing the jump from "teaching bad basketball" to ""I was talking about the young guys."

Nice try though.

BringJackBack
02-03-2011, 01:02 AM
Why are we being so harsh?

Jon Theodore
02-03-2011, 01:02 AM
Just sick of seeing the same garbage posted over and over, it's very trollish.

Bball
02-03-2011, 01:05 AM
I will say the man certainly has his faults...but he didn't get to where he is now by "teaching bad basketball"


Of course "where he is now" is FIRED.
:fireworks
:woot:
:cheers:

Man, I LOVE saying that!!!!!

PacersPride
02-03-2011, 01:07 AM
if i had to choose between zeke thomas or JOb to coach this team.. i would likely have to flip a coin!

BringJackBack
02-03-2011, 01:07 AM
Just sick of seeing the same garbage posted over and over, it's very trollish.



Thats fine, but I feel vnzla was treated a little unjust because he made two seperate posts and they were compared to one another. :shrug:

Heres my point of view on the whole "bad basketball" thing.

- He turned Danny into a big time three point shooter (Or chucker)
- He forced Josh to shoot threes ever since being in the rotation until he was fired (He hasn't shot a single three since)
- He's let Rush get away with being lazy on offense since the 5th option's role is a catch and shoot player
- He wouldn't play Dahntay because he isn't a three point shooter.

To be fair, those are minor (Besides Danny), but it's still there at least in my opinion.

cdash
02-03-2011, 01:19 AM
Cleveland is still in the season ticket honeymoon stage. Let's see what their attendance looks like next year.

I'm not just talking about their basketball team. I understand all of these things. They have wholeheartedly supported the ****ty Browns for as long as they have been there. Colts support blossomed only after they started winning. I love Indy, I am one of those fans, but lots of fairweather fans around here. Many of my friends are among them.

ECKrueger
02-03-2011, 01:27 AM
I'm disappointed. I found out Jeff Foster wears uggz from Dahntay Brandon and Paul.

I lost a lot of respect for him tonight.

Jon Theodore
02-03-2011, 01:39 AM
Thats fine, but I feel vnzla was treated a little unjust because he made two seperate posts and they were compared to one another. :shrug:

Heres my point of view on the whole "bad basketball" thing.

- He turned Danny into a big time three point shooter (Or chucker)
- He forced Josh to shoot threes ever since being in the rotation until he was fired (He hasn't shot a single three since)
- He's let Rush get away with being lazy on offense since the 5th option's role is a catch and shoot player
- He wouldn't play Dahntay because he isn't a three point shooter.

To be fair, those are minor (Besides Danny), but it's still there at least in my opinion.


I was referencing two posts that were completely related.

I'm lazy and on the verge of falling asleep, can't remember if it was Hicks or Unclebuck who responded to the intitial post of "he taught them bad basketball" with "so the coach was teaching them to foul a lot and get beat on defense?"

It was a leading question, trying to prove the same point I am (which is why don't you actually contribute something if your are going to post, otherwise just read...thats what I do most of the time).

His (vnzla) reponse was "I was talking about the young guys" (rotation).


Didn't we ban that ridiculous Hansbrough fan for similar behavior??? (every post essentially being the same, trollish garbage)

CableKC
02-03-2011, 02:30 AM
This game could easily have gone the other way simply becuase the Cavs were hungrier with a whole bunch of Players that you've never even heard of prior to a month ago.

I'm glad that we won.....but I will say this....I know that there is limited time to really practice with Vogel....but get ready for some really bad losses....I think that the honeymoon is going to be over soon if our defense doesn't improve and we don't protect the ball and limit our Turnovers.

Also...we had no answer when it came to defending Sessions and Harris.

presto123
02-03-2011, 02:32 AM
How did Vogel grow on me so quickly? He hasn't done much yet but I really like the guy. Did you see him during the time-outs. Chatting with the guys and giving positive reinforcement. Still early but I kind of hope he gets the job for good:)

TheDon
02-03-2011, 04:28 AM
I don't know if the games coming up will be ugly or not, they very well could be but I think the aspect of possibly being made to look really bad combined with the wanting to win with vogel will probably have positive effects and give us some more focus. Also the more we practice and the more games we get under our belt hopefully will translate into fewer turnovers.

I think it would be awesome for us to string together 3 wins in a row something that I don't think JOB managed to do all year while Vogel might be able to do it during his first 3 games as a head coach. I hope we can get as much wins and credibility to the players for Vogel before our first loss. Not that I want us to lose but I want to see how the team responds after Vogel inevitably gets his first loss as a head coach.

McKeyFan
02-03-2011, 08:23 AM
speaking of closing minutes.. just an idea but if vogel inserted foster into the lineup for josh, i would have liked the move.

foster and roy will rarely play together i know, but with a few minutes to go in a game it could be a nice lil change of frontcourt rotation players. foster can d up players like jamison.. ?
Good thought.

I meant to point out how glad I was Vogel did not replace Roy with Foster down the stretch, but I might be open to Foster replacing Josh. Foster is quite effective down the stretch.

But Roy needs to keep working through things, and it was great self-control, in my opinion, that Coach Frank stuck with Roy.

McKeyFan
02-03-2011, 08:42 AM
Just stop with this garbage...it's becoming a bad joke. I didn't like O'brien and it was his time to go, but he is well respected in the league as a good coach...he didn't teach anybody how to play "Bad basketball." I am not even going to go further, I will say the man certainly has his faults...but he didn't get to where he is now by "teaching bad basketball"

I am as happy to see O'brien gone as anybody and so far I love Vogel, but seriously bring SOMETHING new to the table....I am sure you are capable of it.
His tendency to encourage bad shot selection was bad basketball. It's seems to be changing, thankfully.

Unclebuck
02-03-2011, 08:46 AM
.

But rest assured, Cleveland fans are no different than Indy fans. Indy's fanbase didn't dissolve overnight. It took some bad management and bad luck and a prolonged rebuilding process that the team tried to sidestep (and couldn't). Cleveland's fanbase won't dissolve overnight either.

Folks... Indy fans are no different than anywhere else. Win and you build fans. Lose and you lose them...


Two points:
1) the Cavs attendance the year before Lebron was drafted was lower than any season for the pacers - they averaged around 11,400

2) I think Indiana fans are a little different from most NBA cities. I think Indy fans are predisposed (is that even a word) to dislike the NBA more so than most NBA cities

Major Cold
02-03-2011, 08:59 AM
I hated this game. The defense was soooooo bad. There really has been very little structure on both sides.

When the offense stalled in the first it was clearly the lack of spacing. This is why McRoberts needs to start. He understands floor spacing and getting to the open spaces for the benefit of the offense and not just for the shot. This is the biggest difference between he and Tyler. And I like Tyler, but he is best suited off the bench.

Danny and DJones frustrated me offensively. I would rather see AJ next to DC more minutes if DJOnes is going to play like that.

Sessions owned DC. It was obvious that DC had no idea where his help was coming from. If I were Vogel I would not have messed with the defensive structure this year. We are really going to see that most of our defenders are about as bad as Dun under Vogel.

It was a win. And reading some responses, fans are taking to Vogel in just his second game. Is this because of who he is, or who he is not? If it is the latter, is that a measure of who we want to coach this team.

LA_Confidential
02-03-2011, 10:38 AM
Is it me or does our offense see extremely frantic. Everyone is moving way too fast.
DC, I understand he's tryna make plays but we need a PF bad.
We missed Rush being open on the wing for the spot up 3.
Dahntay is kinda hard to watch because he has no rhythm with the offense.
PG is smooth, PS, He's a sniper.
I think Danny is trying to be a lot more aggressive which is a plus.
Roy needs to slow down because he has the tools to dominate if he stops rushing his hook shot.
Posey DNP :dance:
Ford DNP :dance:

All in all good win. I didnt want to be the first team to loose to those bums.

Dick Baveta is a tool.

Jeff Foster has to go.

DaveP63
02-03-2011, 10:38 AM
The defense was poor, as noted. Offensively, we left too many bunnies on the table, again. Too many damn turn overs, again. Dick "The Nick" did his level best to get the Cavs off the schnide...But hell, we won! On to the Trailblazers.

OakMoses
02-03-2011, 11:42 AM
I'm with Major Cold on this one.

The Pacers played a wretched game. This was possibly the hardest game to watch so far this season. We played a JV team with only 4 legit. NBA rotation players and we allowed them to have their 4th best offensive game (Offensive Efficiency) of the year. Our defense was putrid. I'm not willing to give anyone a pass for this game. Sure the Cavs played hard, but they were vastly overmatched and completely incapable of competing unless we let them. We let them. I think there's plenty of blame to go around here.

From what I've seen so far, Vogel has clearly been emphasizing a quicker tempo and attacking the basket more often. The only other change I've noticed is that he's using the PF in the high post and Roy in the low post. This is a good change for now, but Roy eventually should be able to operate effectively from the high post. He has the tools, and it's by far the best opportunity to utilize his passing ability.

If we don't get markedly better defensively between now and Friday, we're going to get blown out.

I get that young guys make mistakes, but what we saw last night was just as much "bad basketball" as anything we saw during the O'Brien era.

BPump33
02-03-2011, 11:45 AM
VOGEL with an E

i've seen it with an A and U already :P

Remember it this way:

V- Veterans (Ford, Posey)
O - Over
G - Game changers (Tyler, Pauly G)
E - Equals
L - Losses

joeyd
02-03-2011, 12:13 PM
Is it me or does our offense see extremely frantic. Everyone is moving way too fast.
DC, I understand he's tryna make plays but we need a PF bad.
We missed Rush being open on the wing for the spot up 3.
Dahntay is kinda hard to watch because he has no rhythm with the offense.
PG is smooth, PS, He's a sniper.
I think Danny is trying to be a lot more aggressive which is a plus.
Roy needs to slow down because he has the tools to dominate if he stops rushing his hook shot.
Posey DNP :dance:
Ford DNP :dance:
All in all good win. I didnt want to be the first team to loose to those bums.
Dick Baveta is a tool.
Jeff Foster has to go.

Again with the "Foster has to go" rhetoric. I don't mind hearing people's opinion's if they are substantiated, and I know that people have their favorite players and least favorite players, but when this is posted, I'd like to know the reason. OK, let's say that Hibbert is getting back into form. He had a double-double last game and put up decent numbers last night. But if you extrapolate Foster's playing time to Roy's (Roy played nearly twice as long last night), you'll see great similarity. Foster gets offensive rebounds. This translates into second chance points. We are averaging more points this year than last, and it is attributed at least in part to the increase in ORB; Jeff (and Tyler) was out last year and these ORBs were sorely missed. So while Jeff is not an offensive juggernaut in terms of scoring, he does something necessary to keep the scoring machine going. In short, if Foster was gone, or if he goes without getting another decent big to replace him, we will be blown out of more games and have less of a chance in others, especially when Roy picks up 2 quick fouls as he is prone to do.

Pacertron
02-03-2011, 01:52 PM
5 pages of postgame talk, I like it!! Thank you to management for sparking fan interest again by getting rid of JOB!

This is my first post here, I've read the forum for a while, years even. I thought for sure the way the second half went last night that we were going to blow that lead...and I guarantee a JOB run team would have. BUT it was good to see that we bit down and closed the last 2-3 minutes out and pulled off the W. We did not need the Pacers to make all the ESPN headlines as the team the Cavs finally beat. DC looked great, loved the emotion, especially after hitting that late three.

ksuttonjr76
02-03-2011, 02:05 PM
The approach is basically the same so far, just better play calling and player rotations. Guys know their job. It builds consistency, so there is really no good reason to argue approaches outside of rotations at this point. Small ball really didnt work to well this season. Did it?

Buck it seems your either just stirring up the pot or your really bitter about Jim being fired.

No disrespect, but I was kinda thinking the same thing.

Unclebuck
02-03-2011, 02:12 PM
No disrespect, but I was kinda thinking the same thing.

No disrespect taken.

I was in favor of JOB getting fired. And although it probably didn't seem like it I was not in favor of a lot of things Jim did as coach.

However that doesn't mean I won't point out when the Pacers don't play well especially defensively. Nor will I keep quiet if I feel what went on during O'Brien's time as coach is being mis-characterized

Since86
02-03-2011, 02:26 PM
It's way too early to start comparing the two, Jim and Frank IMHO. Changes can't be made overnight.

The only thing that can be accurately judged, are the rotations. They need time to practice, and a few games to work out the kinks before anything can be discussed.