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kester99
02-02-2011, 04:35 PM
By Ian Thomsen, from the Inside the NBA section of SI.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ian_thomsen/02/02/pacers.news/

Nice piece which has Bird's thoughts on the way forward, young players, Bill Fitch, etc....

Excerpts:

"Everybody on the basketball side is up except for a few players," Bird said of the Pacers' contracts that will expire this summer. "All of the trainers, coaches, scouts, me, [GM David] Morway, everybody in the office -- we're all up. As much money as we've lost at this franchise, the owner should have the opportunity to pick and choose who he wants to run the basketball side or coach the teams, and he's probably going to make some changes.
"After this season you get to start with a clean slate, and how many teams in the league do that or ever have done that? I'm proud of the fact he's got options, because he never had that before."


...Bird told me Monday that he expects Vogel to put the ball more often in Collison's hands in pick-and-roll situations, restore Hibbert's confidence by feeding him with quick hitters in the low post, and develop other youngsters, like rookie Paul George. A few hours later, all three Pacers excelled in a 104-93 win over the visiting Raptors. "Frank has great communication with the players," Bird said.



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ian_thomsen/02/02/pacers.news/index.html#ixzz1Cq7d3Hzm

Trophy
02-02-2011, 04:38 PM
He's a really good coach and perfect for this team.

We actually have a system in play.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 04:38 PM
Despite reports that Simon ordered the firing of O'Brien, Bird insisted he was the decider. "I made that decision after the Orlando game," Bird said of the Pacers' blowout loss at home last Wednesday.

Here's a little tidbit. Eat that Kravitz.

King Phoenix
02-02-2011, 04:41 PM
Good stuff but adds to the confusion on the mid-future plans. But it's good to know that the young ones will play and develop, who knows this might pay dividends if we make it to the playoffs

thelostpacer
02-02-2011, 04:42 PM
All i want see get lance some mins too

k_lewis93
02-02-2011, 04:46 PM
All i want see get lance some mins too

Agreed. I'm really hoping he will play some tonight.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 04:54 PM
By Ian Thomsen, from the Inside the NBA section of SI.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ian_thomsen/02/02/pacers.news/

Nice piece which has Bird's thoughts on the way forward, young players, Bill Fitch, etc....

Excerpts:

"Everybody on the basketball side is up except for a few players," Bird said of the Pacers' contracts that will expire this summer. "All of the trainers, coaches, scouts, me, [GM David] Morway, everybody in the office -- we're all up. As much money as we've lost at this franchise, the owner should have the opportunity to pick and choose who he wants to run the basketball side or coach the teams, and he's probably going to make some changes.
"After this season you get to start with a clean slate, and how many teams in the league do that or ever have done that? I'm proud of the fact he's got options, because he never had that before."


...Bird told me Monday that he expects Vogel to put the ball more often in Collison's hands in pick-and-roll situations, restore Hibbert's confidence by feeding him with quick hitters in the low post, and develop other youngsters, like rookie Paul George. A few hours later, all three Pacers excelled in a 104-93 win over the visiting Raptors. "Frank has great communication with the players," Bird said.



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ian_thomsen/02/02/pacers.news/index.html#ixzz1Cq7d3Hzm

Thats great Larry , all of a sudden you wake your a$$ up and realize DC should have had the ball in his hands, and that played the PnR?

I thank God, Mr Simon stepped in because of it was left up to Bird, Obie would still be the coach

This guy is clueless as MJ

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 05:04 PM
Here's a little tidbit. Eat that Kravitz.

So that pic of O'Brien walking to the locker room after getting kicked outta the Chicago game just got even more interesting. He had to know what was coming.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 05:09 PM
Thats great Larry , all of a sudden you wake your a$$ up and realize DC should have had the ball in his hands, and that played the PnR?

I thank God, Mr Simon stepped in because of it was left up to Bird, Obie would still be the coach

This guy is clueless as MJ

Bird said in the article that he indeed fired him and not Simon. My last post has the quote in it.

pizza guy
02-02-2011, 05:14 PM
Thats great Larry , all of a sudden you wake your a$$ up and realize DC should have had the ball in his hands, and that played the PnR?

I thank God, Mr Simon stepped in because of it was left up to Bird, Obie would still be the coach

This guy is clueless as MJ

I think Bird believes that a coach should handle the coaching decisions, and after JO'B insisted on his way, Bird made the decision to let him go.

Not a lot in the article, but Bird does say he's not looking to trade Danny. Of course, he also said O'B would stay til the end of the season...

docpaul
02-02-2011, 05:17 PM
There are actually tons of good tidbits in this article:



His decision to fire coach Jim O'Brien doesn't change the long-term thinking of Pacers president Larry Bird. He still wants to make the playoffs this season, and he still doesn't want to consider his future with the Pacers beyond this season.

Earlier this season, team owner Herb Simon asked Bird whether he was interested in returning. "He said, 'What do you want to do?' " Bird said. "I said, 'I don't want to talk about it.' "

Bird couldn't detail why he postponed that discussion, but the probability of an extended lockout must have played a role. Since taking full control of the franchise in 2008 (following the exit of his boss, Donnie Walsh, who moved to New York as president of the Knicks), Bird has been creating flexibility for Simon to exploit at the end of this season. A potential work stoppage that threatens next season appears to have underlined Bird's resolve to let his owner wait and see. Why should anyone commit to the future when no one knows what that future will bring?

Wait until the union negotiations play out, see what the new rules mean for a small-market team like the Pacers, and then let Simon decide how he wants to rebuild the franchise. Bird has established that end game by clearing Indiana's expensive payroll, establishing a young core of former All-Star Danny Granger to go with point guard Darren Collison and center Roy Hibbert, and giving Simon an open platform to do whatever he wants.
"Everybody on the basketball side is up except for a few players," Bird said of the Pacers' contracts that will expire this summer. "All of the trainers, coaches, scouts, me, [GM David] Morway, everybody in the office -- we're all up. As much money as we've lost at this franchise, the owner should have the opportunity to pick and choose who he wants to run the basketball side or coach the teams, and he's probably going to make some changes.

"After this season you get to start with a clean slate, and how many teams in the league do that or ever have done that? I'm proud of the fact he's got options, because he never had that before."

Despite reports that Simon ordered the firing of O'Brien, Bird insisted he was the decider. "I made that decision after the Orlando game," Bird said of the Pacers' blowout loss at home last Wednesday. Following a 110-89 defeat Saturday at Chicago -- the Pacers' 20th loss in 28 games -- Bird replaced O'Brien by promoting his longtime assistant Frank Vogel, who will be interim coach for the remainder of the season. Bird told me Monday that he expects Vogel to put the ball more often in Collison's hands in pick-and-roll situations, restore Hibbert's confidence by feeding him with quick hitters in the low post, and develop other youngsters, like rookie Paul George. A few hours later, all three Pacers excelled in a 104-93 win over the visiting Raptors. "Frank has great communication with the players," Bird said.

The 18-27 Pacers are one game behind Charlotte for the No. 8 spot in the East, and Bird believes they can make the playoffs for the first time in five years while developing their young talent.

"Look how many years it takes some of these teams to rebuild," Bird said. "Some of them take 10 years or 12 years. I thought I could do it in three years, and I still do believe it."

Bird has consistently sought to win games instead of trying to improve the Pacers' position in the lottery. Last year they went 10-4 over the final month to fall to No. 10 in the draft.

"We don't do that," he said of losing as a strategy. "That's not my mentality. This is a professional league, you're supposed to be professional and play every game like it's your last game and play to win. There are a million teams that tank, and I don't know what the league can do about it. But you don't want to send the message to your team that you want to lose. Right now, we're starting to play young guys, but it has nothing to do with the draft -- it's how our team is set up looking for the future. Our future is our young guys. We've got to give them time and I think I can win with them."

He believes the 6-foot-8 George can become "a special player."
"He's got length, he'll guard you, he rebounds his position," Bird said. "He's a streaky shooter but he wants to be good. He'll live in the gym."

O'Brien was a hard-driving coach in his four seasons with the Pacers, and Bird credits him with changing the post-Palace brawl culture of the franchise while demanding effort from the players. Someday they'll appreciate what O'Brien did for them, Bird believes.

"When you mention Bill Fitch," Bird said of his first NBA coach, who was openly disliked by many of Bird's fellow Celtics, "go back and ask all of my teammates who had problems with him. They'll all tell you he was the best coach they ever had. But guys are different now. They seem to be more sensitive."

In an era defined by the departures of LeBron James and Chris Bosh (with reports that Carmelo Anthony and Chris Paul are soon to follow), the Pacers are built around a young star who has been adamant in wanting to stay in Indianapolis. Bird doesn't take Granger's loyalty for granted.

"There are rumblings the Pacers might trade him," Bird said of Granger. "He's been a trooper, and I'd rather bring people in here to help him out rather than to trade him. I sat him down and told him what we were going to do three years ago, and he was all in. He gets frustrated, but that's all.

"The thing is, if he ever came to me and asked me if I would trade him, that's different. But Danny has never done that."

able
02-02-2011, 05:22 PM
Here's a little tidbit. Eat that Kravitz.

So you truly believe that he decided the evening of the 26th it has been enough, then waits the day off to call JOB in, let's him also play nets and chicago and calls him in on sunday because that's a better timing ??

really ??


I've got some seaside real-estate for you for a nice price as well

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 05:25 PM
So you truly believe that he decided the evening of the 26th it has been enough, then waits the day off to call JOB in, let's him also play nets and chicago and calls him in on sunday because that's a better timing ??

really ??


I've got some seaside real-estate for you for a nice price as well

What do you think happened? Why would Bird insist that it was his decision (Who isn't an egotistical person) and not Simon's?

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 05:25 PM
Bird said in the article that he indeed fired him and not Simon. My last post has the quote in it.

of course he did. but Guess what?

I dont funkin believe him

a moron could tell that the team had tuned Jim out by the end of year 2

not mad at you bro, just the perception that Bird did something great by removing Jim, a year and a half late.

Even if Bird "mad the final call" Im sure he was asked to do so by Simon or it was agreed upon

If you listen to Bird he makes it seem like Simon does whatever Bird says

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 05:30 PM
of course he did. but Guess what?

I dont funkin believe him

a moron could tell that the team had tuned Jim out by the end of year 2

not mad at you bro, just the perception that Bird did something great by removing Jim, a year and a half late.

Even if Bird "mad the final call" Im sure he was asked to do so by Simon or it was agreed upon

If you listen to Bird he makes it seem like Simon does whatever Bird says

That's fine. I trust what comes out of the horse's mouth over Kravitz' unknown source (I'm not one to believe everything someone says, but I don't think Bird's a liar).

Overall I just think Bird finally thought that Jim wasn't going to get us to the psot-season, and this is the year we are supposed to make it. :shrug:

pacergod2
02-02-2011, 05:40 PM
Wow. I went back and watched the press conference again and I just don't get what you guys don't understand. He said he finally made up his mind at the Orlando game. He called Simon to see what he thought. It probably took a day or two to figure out who would replace him and what the timing would be. I wouldn't want the new coach coming in to face Chicago in the first game. If you want to build momentum, start with a cupcake game and an easy stretch of games to get the players believing in themselves and their direction. It has way more to do with the players, IMO.

Bird isn't a misdirection guy. He never has been. A lot of the other GM's are that way. I don't love Bird the GM because he was a great player. I like Bird the GM because of his patience. I like his direction (that most on here aren't patient enough to understand). I like his talent evaluations. On a team as bad as we were, it was more important to collect a bunch of can't miss guys than shoot for the stars. I just don't get the hatred for Bird. Actually, I do. I guess I should say I don't get peoples' impatience. That is where I am wrong. To expect people to be patient enough to see the forest through the trees.

I think Bird has done a great job. I didn't care for JOB, but he provided the perfect function for a **** roster without the flexibility to improve. He came in and taught the young players. He had to adjust to his players and he did that. Some of his adjustments were terrible, but he without question made changes to his players' strengths. I just think he is a terrible game manager and his philosophy on what he prioritizes is not in line with how I perceive the game. Bird and Morway made the decision when they hired O'Brien to keep him up until the new CBA when they hired him. That is why they gave him a three year deal with a team option for the fourth. I am not by any means a Bird apologist or think he is infallible. I just like the moves he has made. And I definitely don't fault him for the moves he hasn't made. No GM in the league wanted Dun's or Murphy's contracts. I like his patient approach regardless of others' opinions.

O'Braindead
02-02-2011, 06:02 PM
What do you think happened? Why would Bird insist that it was his decision (Who isn't an egotistical person) and not Simon's?

I think that Bird indeed fired him, but it had to be reviewed and approved by Simon. If anything, Simon is more hands off than Larry Bird is himself which is saying something.


Wow. I went back and watched the press conference again and I just don't get what you guys don't understand. He said he finally made up his mind at the Orlando game. He called Simon to see what he thought. It probably took a day or two to figure out who would replace him and what the timing would be. I wouldn't want the new coach coming in to face Chicago in the first game. If you want to build momentum, start with a cupcake game and an easy stretch of games to get the players believing in themselves and their direction. It has way more to do with the players, IMO.

Bird isn't a misdirection guy. He never has been. A lot of the other GM's are that way. I don't love Bird the GM because he was a great player. I like Bird the GM because of his patience. I like his direction (that most on here aren't patient enough to understand). I like his talent evaluations. On a team as bad as we were, it was more important to collect a bunch of can't miss guys than shoot for the stars. I just don't get the hatred for Bird. Actually, I do. I guess I should say I don't get peoples' impatience. That is where I am wrong. To expect people to be patient enough to see the forest through the trees.

I think Bird has done a great job. I didn't care for JOB, but he provided the perfect function for a **** roster without the flexibility to improve. He came in and taught the young players. He had to adjust to his players and he did that. Some of his adjustments were terrible, but he without question made changes to his players' strengths. I just think he is a terrible game manager and his philosophy on what he prioritizes is not in line with how I perceive the game. Bird and Morway made the decision when they hired O'Brien to keep him up until the new CBA when they hired him. That is why they gave him a three year deal with a team option for the fourth. I am not by any means a Bird apologist or think he is infallible. I just like the moves he has made. And I definitely don't fault him for the moves he hasn't made. No GM in the league wanted Dun's or Murphy's contracts. I like his patient approach regardless of others' opinions.

able and 90's aren't going to see it that way though (No disrespect to them). People who support Larry Bird's actions as President and people who do not support Larry Bird's actions see things through a completely different window (I'm on the fence, so to speak, so I am going to try to lay it out). People who support what Larry does looks at the whole body of work; The DC trade, how we handled the expiring contracts, and the drafting of Roy Hibbert at 17 and Paul George at 10. The other side looks at it at where are we at right now and who could we have right now/have had. They think and believe that we should have tanked for a Blake Griffin, John Wall, or a Derrick Rose.

I'm impartial, so I'm going to go down the list on Bird's Darren Collison trade and show everyone's opinion;

-Darren Collison and James Posey for Troy Murphy

90's, aaronb, and able's point of view: Good trade, but we could have drafted Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, or Darren Collison or tanked and potentially have Derrick Rose, John Wall, or even Stephen Curry or Tyreke Evans in the first place. Too little too late; Darren isn't ever going to be a superstar.

Average Pacer's fan point of view: Great trade, precisely what was needed and Donnie could not even do that in the last decade. Amazing trade, and we're set at the point guard spot for the next ten years.

My point of view: Good trade, and even though we could have had Jrue, I'm happy that we're set with Hansbrough and Collison. Collison, in my opinion, is going to be very successful with more complimentary players around him which will with optimism be acquired during the summer or in the next couple of weeks.

That's a small sample of the line of thinking. Overall I just felt it was necessary to point out that people who support Bird look at things completely differently than people who don't support Bird.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 06:10 PM
I think that Bird indeed fired him, but it had to be reviewed and approved by Simon. If anything, Simon is more hands off than Larry Bird is himself which is saying something.

able and 90's aren't going to see it that way though (No disrespect to them). People who support Larry Bird's actions as President and people who do not support Larry Bird's actions see things through a completely different window (I'm on the fence, so to speak, so I am going to try to lay it out).

Well put and no problem

I feel Bird has done some good things:

The draft last year
DC for Murphy
Drafting of Roy
The Rush/Jack for Bayless trade

and he has had some misses too
Tyler over Holiday, Collison etc ( Ty has grown on me so not so bad)
Hiring Jim, keeping Jim, stroking Jims ego
Not insisting they start the youth movement last year


I would honestly give Bird a B- for his tenure so far

CableKC
02-02-2011, 06:13 PM
Bird has consistently sought to win games instead of trying to improve the Pacers' position in the lottery. Last year they went 10-4 over the final month to fall to No. 10 in the draft.

"We don't do that," he said of losing as a strategy. "That's not my mentality. This is a professional league, you're supposed to be professional and play every game like it's your last game and play to win. There are a million teams that tank, and I don't know what the league can do about it. But you don't want to send the message to your team that you want to lose. Right now, we're starting to play young guys, but it has nothing to do with the draft -- it's how our team is set up looking for the future. Our future is our young guys. We've got to give them time and I think I can win with them."
This goes back to the whole "What has changed all of a sudden?" question that many of us have. This "do our best to win but develop our Young guys now cuz it will help in the future" mentality seems like a logical approach that should have been implemented in Year 1 of the 3 year plan....not Year 3 in the 3 Year plan.

Bball
02-02-2011, 08:15 PM
I suppose it's always possible Simon made it crystal clear to Bird that O'Brien would not be hired back and Simon was all for firing him at any point that Bird would choose. So maybe Bird did decide when to fire O'Brien but did it with the knowledge O'Brien truly was a lame duck because he'd lost the support of ownership.

Or maybe Bird decided to fire O'Brien when Simon told him either you pull the plug on him or I will....

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 10:22 PM
Bird isn't a misdirection guy. He never has been. A lot of the other GM's are that way. I don't love Bird the GM because he was a great player. I like Bird the GM because of his patience. I like his direction (that most on here aren't patient enough to understand). I like his talent evaluations. On a team as bad as we were, it was more important to collect a bunch of can't miss guys than shoot for the stars. I just don't get the hatred for Bird. Actually, I do. I guess I should say I don't get peoples' impatience. That is where I am wrong. To expect people to be patient enough to see the forest through the trees.


Awesome. post of the year right here.

indygeezer
02-03-2011, 09:12 AM
By Ian Thomsen, from the Inside the NBA section of SI.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ian_thomsen/02/02/pacers.news/

Nice piece which has Bird's thoughts on the way forward, young players, Bill Fitch, etc....

Excerpts:

...Bird told me Monday that he expects Vogel to put the ball more often in Collison's hands in pick-and-roll situations, restore Hibbert's confidence by feeding him with quick hitters in the low post, and develop other youngsters, like rookie Paul George. A few hours later, all three Pacers excelled in a 104-93 win over the visiting Raptors. "Frank has great communication with the players," Bird said.



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ian_thomsen/02/02/pacers.news/index.html#ixzz1Cq7d3Hzm

So Vogel gets all the credit for being a great coach because he is doing exactly what LB is directing him to do?? Or is he really "that" good? I tend to think he's following his boss's direction.

Speed
02-03-2011, 10:07 AM
As for who fired him, I don't care.

Day-V
02-03-2011, 10:14 AM
As for who fired him, I don't care.

Agreed. It happened, that's all I care about.