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90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 02:42 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1407


Too Good to Be Jrue in Philadelphia, PA:
How interested are the Clippers in Andre Iguodala? Bill Simmons tweeted that he would fit in nice with the Clippers.

Eric Pincus:
Not as much as Carmelo or Danny Granger - but he's on their list of small forwards.

The author is Eric Pincus. He knows his stuff, he covers the Clippers and Lakers, has a radio show , and works for the LA Times

Eric Gordon, A. Aminu, and a pick for Granger and filler

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 02:44 PM
It'd have to be something like Granger for two firsts and Kaman.. No way they're trading Gordon.
If we wanted Gordon, it'd have to be something like Granger, a first, Rush, and Hansbrough for Gordon and Kaman or something like that. I'd do it too without hesitation.

Wait until P4E gets over here he'll go on a rant about it :laugh:.

RWB
02-02-2011, 02:44 PM
In case you didn't know 90s, Pincus use to visit PD from time to time.

Pacersalltheway10
02-02-2011, 02:45 PM
I would flat out love that trade. But the Clippers definitley would not. If they are willing to trade EJ for Granger then i would do it.

CircleCity3318
02-02-2011, 02:45 PM
I would love that trade I don't think the clippers would give up Eric Gordon though.

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 02:45 PM
Eric knows the Clippers well but i dont think Bird will trade Granger

and the Clippers arent trading EJ

Pacersalltheway10
02-02-2011, 02:45 PM
It'd have to be something like Granger for two firsts and Kaman.. No way they're trading Gordon.

Wait until P4E gets over here he'll go on a rant about it :laugh:.

this.

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 02:48 PM
90s ask Eric next chat if they will trade EJ for Granger im 99.9% he will say no way

thanks in advance

Dr. Awesome
02-02-2011, 02:49 PM
If Jordan could play PF I wouldn't be oppose to Granger for Aminu, Jordan, 1st, and fillers.

Thing is, I don't know that Jordan could play PF.

Griffin and Gordon are untouchable though, so even thinking that won't get you far.

I doubt Clippers could turn that down when their core consists of Bledsoe/Gordon/Granger/Griffin/Kaman.

Gamble1
02-02-2011, 02:50 PM
Eric knows the Clippers well but i dont think Bird will trade Granger

and the Clippers arent trading EJ
GM's have done dumber things than trading star players for star players. Make it happen Bird.

PacerPenguins
02-02-2011, 02:52 PM
gorden for granger straight up. I would love our lineup

DC
Gorden
George
Hans/ McBob
Hibbert

that team would make the playoffs and IMHO contend for a title somewhere down the road

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 02:52 PM
It'd have to be something like Granger for two firsts and Kaman.. No way they're trading Gordon.
If we wanted Gordon, it'd have to be something like Granger, a first, Rush, and Hansbrough for Gordon and Kaman or something like that. I'd do it too without hesitation.

Wait until P4E gets over here he'll go on a rant about it :laugh:.

I dont understand the love fest for Gordon

If he was a Pacer and Granger was a Clipper , a lot of people would look at Granger 's stats and think he is by far the better player.

Granger is the better player right now

aaronb
02-02-2011, 02:52 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1407



The author is Eric Pincus. He knows his stuff, he covers the Clippers and Lakers, has a radio show , and works for the LA Times

Eric Gordon, A. Aminu, and a pick for Granger and filler


We held out too long on Granger to get Gordon back. There were rumors last year of a Granger for Gordon and a 1st being on the table.

Now it would likely be Granger for Amin and maybe a 1st?

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 02:53 PM
In case you didn't know 90s, Pincus use to visit PD from time to time.

oh snap,

I didnt know that, thats cool though

Thanks

cdash
02-02-2011, 02:53 PM
Clippers are hard to deal with. They don't like trading away first round picks, and Griffin/Gordon are untouchable. So a Clippers offer for Granger would have to be something like Kaman/Aminu/scraps for Granger. Not going to happen.

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 02:53 PM
I dont understand the love fest for Gordon

If he was a Pacer and Granger was a Clipper , a lot of people would look at Granger 's stats and think he is by far the better player.

Granger is the better player right now

I totaly disagree EJ can create for himself and others which Danny can't. Plus EJ is 22 and has better stats.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 02:54 PM
90s ask Eric next chat if they will trade EJ for Granger im 99.9% he will say no way

thanks in advance

his chat is over, but next week I will do so

:)

cdash
02-02-2011, 02:55 PM
I totaly disagree EJ can create for himself and others which Danny can't. Plus EJ is 22 and has better stats.

Plus he plays better defense than Danny. The concern with both of them really is injuries. EJ has shown over his college and professional career that he is a little frail. Seems to get banged up quite a bit.

cdash
02-02-2011, 02:55 PM
his chat is over, but next week I will do so

:)

I have to give you props for your chat participations. You gleam some nice info for the board on those chats. I, for one, appreciate it.

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 02:57 PM
Plus he plays better defense than Danny. The concern with both of them really is injuries. EJ has shown over his college and professional career that he is a little frail. Seems to get banged up quite a bit.

ya his defense is better and is stronger than Danny. But ya he is getting knick kack injuries all the time I hope he doesnt suffer anything serious. He should be back in 2 -3wks right after the allstar break.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 02:58 PM
gorden for granger straight up. I would love our lineup

DC
Gorden
George
Hans/ McBob
Hibbert

that team would make the playoffs and IMHO contend for a title somewhere down the road

Cant bro

Granger makes 11 mil, Gordon makes 3 mil or similar

Pacersalltheway10
02-02-2011, 02:59 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4ueryvt

Granger for EJ straight up in a 4 team trade.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 02:59 PM
We held out too long on Granger to get Gordon back. There were rumors last year of a Granger for Gordon and a 1st being on the table.

Now it would likely be Granger for Amin and maybe a 1st?

With a weak draft, that wouldnt be near enough in my opinion

Dr. Awesome
02-02-2011, 02:59 PM
Clippers are hard to deal with. They don't like trading away first round picks, and Griffin/Gordon are untouchable. So a Clippers offer for Granger would have to be something like Kaman/Aminu/scraps for Granger. Not going to happen.

I doubt thats all they would offer. Like I said, I think we could get a Jordan and a 1st from them with Aminu. It would be a very good move for the Clippers. They would still have Blake Griffin, and have two of the better wing players in the NBA with him. They would also still have a good starter in Kaman and Davis/Bledsoe at the point.

For us though, just doesn't make sense, simply because Jordan is too good to be a backup and I doubt he could play PF. If we used him at PF just as a defensive player and for putbacks, we'd have our own set of twin towers though.

Would be nice. :D

CableKC
02-02-2011, 03:00 PM
It'd have to be something like Granger for two firsts and Kaman.. No way they're trading Gordon.
If we wanted Gordon, it'd have to be something like Granger, a first, Rush, and Hansbrough for Gordon and Kaman or something like that. I'd do it too without hesitation.

Wait until P4E gets over here he'll go on a rant about it :laugh:.
Why would Kaman have to be included?

As for your trade offer/suggestion....Granger+1st+Rush+Hansbrough+Expiring would be a package that I would send for a Melo-level Player...not Gordon and Kaman.

At most....I can see a Gordon+ExpringSalaryFiller for Granger+ExpiringSalaryFiller swap as "reasonable"....add in a 1st+BRush+Hansbrough while getting back a very solid Player that already plays the same position as Hibbert doesn't make sense to me...we'd be overpaying.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 03:00 PM
his chat is over, but next week I will do so

:)


I have to give you props for your chat participations. You gleam some nice info for the board on those chats. I, for one, appreciate it.

Yeah me too.. I look forward to them all the time for some outside perspective.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:02 PM
Clippers are hard to deal with. They don't like trading away first round picks, and Griffin/Gordon are untouchable. So a Clippers offer for Granger would have to be something like Kaman/Aminu/scraps for Granger. Not going to happen.

Remember when people here said something to the effect of.............

No one is untouchable on a team under 500

So shouldnt the same rule apply to the Clippers

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 03:05 PM
Remember when people here said something to the effect of.............

No one is untouchable on a team under 500

So shouldnt the same rule apply to the Clippers

Not when u have Blake Griffen or EJ

plus Kaman has been hurt all season and Baron was hurt early and Raandy Foye they started 1-13 and will probly get back to .500 this seaso that is pretty good.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:06 PM
I totaly disagree EJ can create for himself and others which Danny can't. Plus EJ is 22 and has better stats.

I respect your opinion but disagree

Yes EG is younger, but he has had more injuries than Danny already

Danny has a higher career scoring average, is a better rebounder, and blocks more shots

also he is an all-star, not something EG can say

EG might end up being better, but I bet if you poll GM's around the league they would take Granger in a heartbeat over EG

6'9 guys that can fill up a scoresheet and shot almost 40% from dowtown are rare

naptownmenace
02-02-2011, 03:07 PM
I think if you asked writers and fans around the league who they thought the better player was, at least 75% of them would say Danny Granger.

You're basically comparing an All-Star level SF with an All-Star level SG. The difference is that Granger has been playing at this level for 3-4 seasons in a row while Gordon is just now coming into his own.

With that said, I don't think the Pacers need to trade Granger but I would be willing to part with him for a deal involving Eric Gordon. I think that it's probably going to be a wash but the Pacers could use an all-star level SG more than they need an all-Star level SF because Paul George's natural position is SF.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:07 PM
I have to give you props for your chat participations. You gleam some nice info for the board on those chats. I, for one, appreciate it.

Thanks a lot bro, nice of you to say

k_lewis93
02-02-2011, 03:08 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4ueryvt

Granger for EJ straight up in a 4 team trade.

THIS! This is a great trade. Everyone gets what they want. If we can do a Eric for Granger straight up or maybe somehow get them to throw in a 1st or Aminu then pleeasseee do it. We will be a much better team. George can start at SF and Eric can start at SG.

Collison
Gordon
George = Very good lineup.
Hans or Mcbob
Hibbert

make it happen larry!

cdash
02-02-2011, 03:09 PM
Remember when people here said something to the effect of.............

No one is untouchable on a team under 500

So shouldnt the same rule apply to the Clippers

I never agreed with that sentiment. Thought it was dumb.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:10 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4ueryvt

Granger for EJ straight up in a 4 team trade.

Props kid

Not a bad trade at all

k_lewis93
02-02-2011, 03:11 PM
Props kid

Not a bad trade at all

That is exactly what I was thinking. Usually there is a team that gets killed in a trade like this but everyone gets exactly what they want. I would be perfectly happy with this and could really see it happening.

cdash
02-02-2011, 03:12 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4ueryvt

Granger for EJ straight up in a 4 team trade.

That really isn't a bad trade.

CableKC
02-02-2011, 03:14 PM
Here's another related chat question from EricP further down in the chat:




Shani in SF, CA:
Granger getting dealt more or less likely now that Indy has fired their coach? What are the clips chances?

Eric Pincus:
I don't think the coaching change has anything to do with Granger's 0future. The Pacers recently sent out signals that they want to add to the roster around Danny instead of trading him.
Trading Granger doesn't fit the direction that I think that the FO/Bird is heading. Given the ability to significantly improve the roster due to our Salary Cap situation in the offseason...short of a total no-brainer trade involving Granger....it's far more reasonable and logical to add to our future core that is centered around Granger then it is to move him.

CableKC
02-02-2011, 03:14 PM
Eric Gordon, A. Aminu, and a pick for Granger and filler
90s......this wasn't suggested as a trade scenario by EricP in the chat. I'm guessing that this was a trade scenario that you threw out there?

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:15 PM
[QUOTE=cdash;1153439]I never agreed with that sentiment. Thought it was dumb.[/QUOTE

Honestly


So did I

:)

PacerGuy
02-02-2011, 03:16 PM
Hope Sterling is cheap (he is!) & sees EJ as a headache to resign EJ & decides he wants to save $ ASAP.

Granger/Foster/Rush for EJ/Kaman/Gomes

LAC puts Granger w/ Griffen, & Rush is a nice young piece @ SG, & could give them a very tough lineup for n/y, + they save > 6 min n/y.

IN lands a local potentiel star in EJ, P.George moves to a starter, & Kaman/Hibbert @ C is tough. Gomes is necessary for $, nothing more.

(not gonna happen though...)

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:17 PM
That really isn't a bad trade.

If penguins doesnt mind Im going to throw it out on the next chat

be very interested to hear their response

Most of the trades fans suggest are completely one sided

This trade is an excellent value for 4 teams

props kid

Dr. Awesome
02-02-2011, 03:20 PM
If penguins doesnt mind Im going to throw it out on the next chat

be very interested to hear their response

Most of the trades fans suggest are completely one sided

This trade is an excellent value for 4 teams

props kid

Its not bad considering its a 4 team trade involving some high caliber players - but it would never happen. For one, the Nuggets would cut out Indy and NJ and just deal straight with the Clippers to get Gordon.

cdash
02-02-2011, 03:25 PM
Its not bad considering its a 4 team trade involving some high caliber players - but it would never happen. For one, the Nuggets would cut out Indy and NJ and just deal straight with the Clippers to get Gordon.

I assumed that some first round picks would also be thrown Denver's way, and they need NJ for that.

Rogco
02-02-2011, 03:26 PM
I dont understand the love fest for Gordon

If he was a Pacer and Granger was a Clipper , a lot of people would look at Granger 's stats and think he is by far the better player.

Granger is the better player right now

I like them both, but I think he's a better fit for this offense than Granger and would help the starting unit more than Granger does, but in the right offense I think Granger would be a more valuable player. Just my opinion, but with Gordon I think we'd have a really dynamic, young starting 5.

Other than Gordon there's nothing I want from the Clippers (except for Blake, but that ain't happening)

pacergod2
02-02-2011, 03:28 PM
I can't see the trade machine at work... can someone let me know the details? Please and Thank you.

Oh and the IU homerness over EJ is ridiculous. He is a solid player, but I think it would be a wash at best considering he is getting extra value for his age. I think Granger is a much better defender. Especially help side defense. EJ has some quickness, but I would rather take Granger at 6'9" all day every day. EJ has better handles in getting to the rim though, which I like.

I would think that the Clippers would have the intentions of putting Granger between Gordon and Griffin. So I think any package would have to start with Jordan, Aminu and a first. I think that is the opposite kind of deal that Bird is looking for though. Young guy, expiring, and possible pick for a better veteran is more of what he is looking for, IMO.

Cactus Jax
02-02-2011, 03:31 PM
Well the only reason I can see Gordon for Granger working is that the Clippers dont feel that they could resign Gordon for the long-term.

Gordon + Kaman for Granger + filler could work out for both teams in this scenario, but I'm sure the Pacers would want to wait until last minute to do the deal as Eric is injured, but I don't see it as so far-fetched as some others do.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:32 PM
90s......this wasn't suggested as a trade scenario by EricP in the chat. I'm guessing that this was a trade scenario that you threw out there?

yep that was my idea bro

I will ask him , among others next week though

ChristianDudley
02-02-2011, 03:36 PM
I woudn't listen to anything that didn't involve either Eric Gordon or Blake Griffin. I wouldn't even do a deal involving Granger for Kaman UNLESS either Gordon or Griffin were added. The thing with Kaman is that he only has good years every other season and he's always injured it seems. The Clippers just have a bunch of "potential" type players, such as Jordan, Bledsoe, Aminu, etc, but I'd rather get a player like Gordon or Griffin who can make our team better immediately instead of us just staying in the rebuilding mode for even longer. I doubt L.A. would trade Gordon or Grififin right now unless they were handed something unfathomable (is that a word??? lol).

cdash
02-02-2011, 03:37 PM
Oh and the IU homerness over EJ is ridiculous. He is a solid player, but I think it would be a wash at best considering he is getting extra value for his age. I think Granger is a much better defender. Especially help side defense. EJ has some quickness, but I would rather take Granger at 6'9" all day every day. EJ has better handles in getting to the rim though, which I like.


Granger, when he wants to, is a good defender. The problem is that he rarely wants to be a good defender. The height really doesn't mean much to me seeing as how they play different positions and are guarding different guys. EJ is a really good defender, and is much more consistent on that end of the court than Granger is.

All in all, they are probably on similar levels. Gordon gets the edge in my book because he is younger, gets to the free throw line quite a bit, and consistently plays better defense. Obviously, you value my opinion less because I am an "IU homer", but I'm also a Pacers homer so wouldn't this cancel things out? No?

Dr. Awesome
02-02-2011, 03:38 PM
I assumed that some first round picks would also be thrown Denver's way, and they need NJ for that.

I doubt NJ would trade Favors straight up for Granger, much less throw in 1sts for Kaman.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:38 PM
Its not bad considering its a 4 team trade involving some high caliber players - but it would never happen. For one, the Nuggets would cut out Indy and NJ and just deal straight with the Clippers to get Gordon.

that was my thinking too, unless Denver values Granger over Gordon

CooperManning
02-02-2011, 03:39 PM
For what it's worth (not much), last summer most people were of the opinion that Bird thought highly of Aminu.

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 03:39 PM
I can't see the trade machine at work... can someone let me know the details? Please and Thank you.

Oh and the IU homerness over EJ is ridiculous. He is a solid player, but I think it would be a wash at best considering he is getting extra value for his age. I think Granger is a much better defender. Especially help side defense. EJ has some quickness, but I would rather take Granger at 6'9" all day every day. EJ has better handles in getting to the rim though, which I like.

I would think that the Clippers would have the intentions of putting Granger between Gordon and Griffin. So I think any package would have to start with Jordan, Aminu and a first. I think that is the opposite kind of deal that Bird is looking for though. Young guy, expiring, and possible pick for a better veteran is more of what he is looking for, IMO.

Dude i hate IU but I would take EJ over Granger any day and im a Granger fan

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:41 PM
I doubt NJ would trade Favors straight up for Granger, much less throw in 1sts for Kaman.

Really?

Well @#$% NJ !!!

I wouldnt trade Tyler for Favors right now

Dude is SEVERELY over-hyped right now

Dr. Awesome
02-02-2011, 03:42 PM
Really?

Well @#$% NJ !!!

I wouldnt trade Tyler for Favors right now

Dude is SEVERELY over-hyped right now

I'd trade Granger for him right now and not look back.

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 03:43 PM
Really?

Well @#$% NJ !!!

I wouldnt trade Tyler for Favors right now

Dude is SEVERELY over-hyped right now

wow u are crazy if u wouldnt do that he was drafted 3rd for a reason

k_lewis93
02-02-2011, 03:43 PM
I'd trade Granger for him right now and not look back.

They would have to give something with favors for me not to look back.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:45 PM
I'd trade Granger for him right now and not look back.

I feel ya

But IMHO that would be a horrible trade for Indiana

pacergod2
02-02-2011, 03:47 PM
Granger, when he wants to, is a good defender. The problem is that he rarely wants to be a good defender. The height really doesn't mean much to me seeing as how they play different positions and are guarding different guys. EJ is a really good defender, and is much more consistent on that end of the court than Granger is.

All in all, they are probably on similar levels. Gordon gets the edge in my book because he is younger, gets to the free throw line quite a bit, and consistently plays better defense. Obviously, you value my opinion less because I am an "IU homer", but I'm also a Pacers homer so wouldn't this cancel things out? No?

I value your opinion because you don't talk out of your ***. Also, doesn't IU have a higher attendance average than the Pacers? So why wouldn't most people on here prefer IU to the Pacers?

It sure is surprising to me how many huge college basketball fans there are in Indiana that have very little interest in the Pacers.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:48 PM
wow u are crazy if u wouldnt do that he was drafted 3rd for a reason

My Man,

I dont give a *** if he was the first overall pick

He is extreemly raw, has had a whopping average of 4.5 points a game as a starter, which means even McBob averages more

Im not the biggest Ty fan, but he already has put up 27 and 10

Everything is about "potential" with Favors

I dont want anymore part of this BS called potential

Same was said about Kwame, Darko and countless others

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 03:51 PM
My Man,

I dont give a *** if he was the first overall pick

He is extreemly raw, has had a whopping average of 4.5 points a game as a starter, which means even McBob averages more

Im not the biggest Ty fan, but he already has put up 27 and 10

Everything is about "potential" with Favors

I dont want anymore part of this BS called potential

Same was said about Kwame, Darko and countless others

But u wouldnt trade ty for him? thats incredible

Dr. Awesome
02-02-2011, 03:53 PM
I feel ya

But IMHO that would be a horrible trade for Indiana

He could be an elite PF and would be a perfect compliment with Hibbert and George.

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 03:53 PM
The clipps are cheap. why give up soo many assets for a player we might be able to attain next offseason by signing.?

cdash
02-02-2011, 03:53 PM
I value your opinion because you don't talk out of your ***. Also, doesn't IU have a higher attendance average than the Pacers? So why wouldn't most people on here prefer IU to the Pacers?

It sure is surprising to me how many huge college basketball fans there are in Indiana that have very little interest in the Pacers.

:laugh: Thanks.

Yeah, IU's attendance is higher than the Pacers, but I don't think that matters very much here. This is a Pacers board. The people that like both might very well prefer IU to the Pacers because they may have stronger ties (attended school there, etc.). Pacers were my first love in sports, but IU basketball is right there for me. I just wish one of them would be good at this point.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:53 PM
But u wouldnt trade ty for him? thats incredible

at this point now I would not

WTF has Favors proved?

Ty has at least proved he can play

I would trade Rush straight up for Favors, and thats the best they could get from me

Im not dissin you bro, its just I dont see what people see in Favors, in fact rumor had it the Nuggets felt the same

k_lewis93
02-02-2011, 03:55 PM
He could be an elite PF and would be a perfect compliment with Hibbert and George.

COULD BE. Have you seen him play this year. Honestly he sucks this year. He's not doing anything. Everything is speculation with him. People said the same with evan turner. Now look at Indiana. We had the 10th pick and so far it looks like we got a guy that should have gone in the top 5.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 03:55 PM
He could be an elite PF and would be a perfect compliment with Hibbert and George.

true

or he could be average to below average

Granger is proven all-star right now

Way too much to give up in my opinion

k_lewis93
02-02-2011, 03:55 PM
at this point now I would not

WTF has Favors proved?

Ty has at least proved he can play

I would trade Rush straight up for Favors, and thats the best they could get from me

Im not dissin you bro, its just I dont see what people see in Favors, in fact rumor had it the Nuggets felt the same

I totally agree with you

Dr. Awesome
02-02-2011, 03:58 PM
COULD BE. Have you seen him play this year. Honestly he sucks this year. He's not doing anything. Everything is speculation with him. People said the same with evan turner. Now look at Indiana. We had the 10th pick and so far it looks like we got a guy that should have gone in the top 5.

He's shown flashes of being amazing. Evan Turner hasn't shown that at the NBA level.

I'm willing to be a lot of you wouldn't have traded George earlier in the year when he was riding the bench because you saw a lot of potential in him, now take that a multiply it by 5 and you have what Favors could become.

Worst case scenario he is an elite defender at the PF position, exactly what we need next to Hibbert. I'd trade Granger for that easily.

If Granger can forget everything Jim O'Brien taught him, and go back to being the player we all thought he could be, I might change my mind. Right now Granger is a chucker who only defends when he wants to. Give me Favors.

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 03:58 PM
My Man,

I dont give a *** if he was the first overall pick

He is extreemly raw, has had a whopping average of 4.5 points a game as a starter, which means even McBob averages more

Im not the biggest Ty fan, but he already has put up 27 and 10

Everything is about "potential" with Favors

I dont want anymore part of this BS called potential

Same was said about Kwame, Darko and countless others

I couldn't agree more. I seriously haven't seen it with Favors yet. I didn't see it really in college either. He's all potential. He is way more raw than PG. I just am not sold on him at all.

And if the Clippers are trying to get Granger, they are going to try without trading Griffin or Gordon. Why would they do anything including Gordon?

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 04:00 PM
I couldn't agree more. I seriously haven't seen it with Favors yet. I didn't see it really in college either. He's all potential. He is way more raw than PG. I just am not sold on him at all.

And if the Clippers are trying to get Granger, they are going to try without trading Griffin or Gordon. Why would they do anything including Gordon?

They wouldnt

k_lewis93
02-02-2011, 04:01 PM
He's shown flashes of being amazing. Evan Turner hasn't shown that at the NBA level.

I'm willing to be a lot of you wouldn't have traded George earlier in the year when he was riding the bench because you saw a lot of potential in him, now take that a multiply it by 5 and you have what Favors could become.

Worst case scenario he is an elite defender at the PF position, exactly what we need next to Hibbert. I'd trade Granger for that easily.

If Granger can forget everything Jim O'Brien taught him, and go back to being the player we all thought he could be, I might change my mind. Right now Granger is a chucker who only defends when he wants to. Give me Favors.


Alright...If you see that in him that's fine but I don't see it at all. Won't happen anyways.

Dr. Awesome
02-02-2011, 04:02 PM
Let me also say that I don't want to trade Granger. I'm a huge Granger fan. The only realistic target that I would trade him for would be Favors. Any other scenario, I'm likely keeping Granger, but with George's emergence and Favors talent/potential, I'd rather swing for the fences than be stuck in this 8th-10th spot any longer.

Pacersalltheway10
02-02-2011, 04:04 PM
I just asked Eric P. on twitter if the clippers would do a deal centered around Gordon for Granger. He said no....

Pacersalltheway10
02-02-2011, 04:05 PM
He also said : 'the Clippers are a core of Blake and Gordon - with DeAndre making his stake - and a SF to be named later , then they'll figure out pg.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 04:06 PM
He's shown flashes of being amazing. Evan Turner hasn't shown that at the NBA level.

I'm willing to be a lot of you wouldn't have traded George earlier in the year when he was riding the bench because you saw a lot of potential in him, now take that a multiply it by 5 and you have what Favors could become.

Worst case scenario he is an elite defender at the PF position, exactly what we need next to Hibbert. I'd trade Granger for that easily.

If Granger can forget everything Jim O'Brien taught him, and go back to being the player we all thought he could be, I might change my mind. Right now Granger is a chucker who only defends when he wants to. Give me Favors.

look man u follow basketball and are knowledgeable so I respect your opinion

down the road, Favors might be all that, but right now he is not even close to Ty's production , let alone Granger

If we traded Granger for Favors right now, we might be better five years from now, but for the next 3 years we would take a significant backstep INHO

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 04:06 PM
I just asked Eric P. on twitter if the clippers would do a deal centered around Gordon for Granger. He said no....

I told u they wouldnt trade Eric for Melo and Granger is just a worse version of Melo.

Plus that team has good chemisty EJ and Griffen are best friends and so are Deandre Jordan and Griffen.

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 04:07 PM
He also said : 'the Clippers are a core of Blake and Gordon - with DeAndre making his stake - and a SF to be named later , then they'll figure out pg.

Thats what ive been telling u all for awhile now

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 04:09 PM
I just asked Eric P. on twitter if the clippers would do a deal centered around Gordon for Granger. He said no....

I believe you man

Thats Pincus style, one word answers . A lot like David Thorpe's chats

Pacersalltheway10
02-02-2011, 04:09 PM
EJ trade proabaly not gonna happen. how about:

Danny Granger and 1st rounder (or rush) for Nene and Affalo?

k_lewis93
02-02-2011, 04:09 PM
I told u they wouldnt trade Eric for Melo and Granger is just a worse version of Melo.

Plus that team has good chemisty EJ and Griffen are best friends and so are Deandre Jordan and Griffen.

But there have been sources saying that they want Granger. They really think they can get Granger from us without throwing Gordon out there? Who else do they have we would even want?? No one.

Dr. Awesome
02-02-2011, 04:09 PM
look man u follow basketball and are knowledgeable so I respect your opinion

down the road, Favors might be all that, but right now he is not even close to Ty's production , let alone Granger

If we traded Granger for Favors right now, we might be better five years from now, but for the next 3 years we would take a significant backstep INHO

When your not in a position or going to be in a position to compete, you might need to take a few steps back.

Right now, this team will not be in a position to compete soon. If we trade Granger for Favors, our team will be worse right now and we will get a higher pick for a few years.

Granted, I'm ready to make the playoffs, but getting 4-0ed in the first round is as bright as our future is for at least the next two years. Get a core of Hibbert/Favors/George/Rush/Collison put with top 5-7 draft picks over the next two years and we could have a much better future.

Trophy
02-02-2011, 04:10 PM
Bird wants a starting PF and SG for Danny.

Griffin, Gordon for Danny. :laugh:

k_lewis93
02-02-2011, 04:11 PM
Bird wants a starting PF and SG for Danny.

Griffin, Gordon for Danny. :laugh:

In our dreams. lol

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 04:11 PM
But there have been sources saying that they want Granger. They really think they can get Granger from us without throwing Gordon out there? Who else do they have we would even want?? No one.

Of course they want Granger as the 3rd option but they arent trading thier best players 2 get him if they could get lucky and get a DC 4 Murphy type trade they will. The Clippers want EJ and Blake 2 be Clippers for life they arent going anywhere.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 04:13 PM
EJ trade proabaly not gonna happen. how about:

Danny Granger and 1st rounder (or rush) for Nene and Affalo?

First it would have to be a sign and trade with Nene, but even then thats not near enough in my opinion

Dr. Awesome
02-02-2011, 04:13 PM
EJ trade proabaly not gonna happen. how about:

Danny Granger and 1st rounder (or rush) for Nene and Affalo?

Fixed.

Trophy
02-02-2011, 04:21 PM
I love Danny and was against trading him for anyone, but I noticed under Frank, he has the players slowing down and he would try and rush his shot.

I think Frank wants to revolve this team's offense around DC, Roy, Paul, Tyler, and Josh. That's pretty much our solid core that needs to develop together.

He and Danny like each other and work with each other, but I don't if Danny is going to be a fit with those core players.

I don't think we're in any rush to trade him nor would I want us to be.

Danny is still looked at as part of the core.

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 04:28 PM
I love Danny and was against trading him for anyone, but I noticed under Frank, he has the players slowing down and he would try and rush his shot.

I think Frank wants to revolve this team's offense around DC, Roy, Paul, Tyler, and Josh. That's pretty much our solid core that needs to develop together.

He and Danny like each other and work with each other, but I don't if Danny is going to be a fit with those core players.

I don't think we're in any rush to trade him nor would I want us to be.

Danny is still looked at as part of the core.


It was one game, can't really judge anything Danny did off that. Danny took some bad shots, but a lot of his misses were pretty good shots. Danny likes to take that 3 as the trailer after he rebounds the ball, a lot like Murphy did, but Danny is usually deadly with that shot. So when I see him miss that I don't really get upset cause I've seen him knock so many down.

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 04:32 PM
west > nene

nene will want a MAX contract or close too it and he is not worth it imho. west would go for much less.

we would save nearly 5M a year.

beast23
02-02-2011, 04:32 PM
Jahesius.....

Granger for Favors ?????

Granger + 1st or Rush for Nene and Affalo ????

Why don't we get real here? I suppose you guys also expect us to bring our own tube of Vaseline as well, right?

Kstat
02-02-2011, 04:32 PM
Kaman makes no sense for Indy....Gordon would be highway robbery. Aminu is a given, and maybe Deandre Jordan, plus a pick.

Gamble1
02-02-2011, 04:35 PM
Jahesius.....

Granger for Favors ?????

Granger + 1st or Rush for Nene and Affalo ????

Why don't we get real here? I suppose you guys also expect us to bring our own tube of Vaseline as well, right?
And pick up the dinner tab on your way out..:D

Trophy
02-02-2011, 04:35 PM
It was one game, can't really judge anything Danny did off that. Danny took some bad shots, but a lot of his misses were pretty good shots. Danny likes to take that 3 as the trailer after he rebounds the ball, a lot like Murphy did, but Danny is usually deadly with that shot. So when I see him miss that I don't really get upset cause I've seen him knock so many down.

I agree.

Danny is someone I want on this team forever.

He's a really good player and I think the fact that he's our best player, it's going to take time for him to adjust his game.

It sounds to me that he's really happy with Frank as the head coach and he's happy with this team and where it's going.

Shade
02-02-2011, 04:37 PM
Griffin...Gordon...Granger...we could call the Clippers "The 3G Network."

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 04:38 PM
Griffin...Gordon...Granger...we could call the Clippers the 3G Network.

3G sucks! We need to bring Griffin and Gordon here so it could be Griffin, Gordon, Granger, and George so then we would have 4G!

k_lewis93
02-02-2011, 04:38 PM
I agree.

Danny is someone I want on this team forever.

He's a really good player and I think the fact that he's our best player, it's going to take time for him to adjust his game.

It sounds to me that he's really happy with Frank as the head coach and he's happy with this team and where it's going.

No doubt Granger is an awesome guy and a very good player. Not many players would have done for us what he has. I really do hope he retires a Pacer unless we could get a steal through a trade.

D-BONE
02-02-2011, 04:43 PM
It'd have to be something like Granger for two firsts and Kaman.. No way they're trading Gordon.
If we wanted Gordon, it'd have to be something like Granger, a first, Rush, and Hansbrough for Gordon and Kaman or something like that. I'd do it too without hesitation.

Wait until P4E gets over here he'll go on a rant about it :laugh:.

Sounds like a deal to me.

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 05:12 PM
I'd trade Granger, Hibbert, and J-Mac for Aminu, DeAndre Jordan, and Kaman (maybe we give them a draft pick or they give us one depending on who you think the deal favors)... The deal works money wise.

The Clips young talent gives them leverage in any trade because they could realistically let their team develop and compete for a title given time. I mean, Aminu, Gordon, and Griffin would all be top 5 picks of their respected drafts if they were redone, while Bledose and Jordan would of been top 10 picks guaranteed.

When it comes to the deal, we'd further our youth movement by flipping Granger and Hibbert for younger counterparts. DC, George, Aminu, Hansbrough, and Jordan as a starting 5. They'd run the court all day, with great shooting to boot. Thoughts on the deal?

Gamble1
02-02-2011, 05:23 PM
I'd trade Granger, Hibbert, and J-Mac for Aminu, DeAndre Jordan, and Kaman (maybe we give them a draft pick or they give us one depending on who you think the deal favors)... The deal works money wise.

The Clips young talent gives them leverage in any trade because they could realistically let their team develop and compete for a title given time. I mean, Aminu, Gordon, and Griffin would all be top 5 picks of their respected drafts if they were redone, while Bledose and Jordan would of been top 10 picks guaranteed.

When it comes to the deal, we'd further our youth movement by flipping Granger and Hibbert for younger counterparts. DC, George, Aminu, Hansbrough, and Jordan as a starting 5. They'd run the court all day, with great shooting to boot. Thoughts on the deal?
This deserves a....

:picard:

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 05:30 PM
This deserves a....

:picard:

Great response, it really shows your basketball savvy.

LetsTalkPacers
02-02-2011, 05:35 PM
Great response, it really shows your basketball savvy.
:picard:

Gamble1
02-02-2011, 05:35 PM
I am not trying to be disrepectful its just that is a very very bad trade for the Pacers. I don't know why in the world you rate any of those players on the clips so high.

Really?
02-02-2011, 05:35 PM
I'd trade Granger, Hibbert, and J-Mac for Aminu, DeAndre Jordan, and Kaman (maybe we give them a draft pick or they give us one depending on who you think the deal favors)... The deal works money wise.

The Clips young talent gives them leverage in any trade because they could realistically let their team develop and compete for a title given time. I mean, Aminu, Gordon, and Griffin would all be top 5 picks of their respected drafts if they were redone, while Bledose and Jordan would of been top 10 picks guaranteed.

When it comes to the deal, we'd further our youth movement by flipping Granger and Hibbert for younger counterparts. DC, George, Aminu, Hansbrough, and Jordan as a starting 5. They'd run the court all day, with great shooting to boot. Thoughts on the deal?

This is the worst trade possible that I have ever heard discussed on this website, no offense to you but it just dos not make any kind of sense for the Pacers...

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 05:38 PM
Great response, it really shows your basketball savvy.

Dude, it's a horrible trade for us. Your trading away our two most important players for role players. Kaman is only going down hill. Jordan is good, but you can't deny how much he benefits from playing next to Griffin. I like Jordan a lot, but his ceiling isn't as high as Hibbert's. And Aminu is good, but then again hes nothing to write home about. Granger is by far the best player in that deal and we wouldn't be getting a good trade if it was just trading him, let alone adding Hibbert.

Gamble1
02-02-2011, 05:41 PM
Dude, it's a horrible trade for us. Your trading away our two most important players for role players. Kaman is only going down hill. Jordan is good, but you can't deny how much he benefits from playing next to Griffin. I like Jordan a lot, but his ceiling isn't as high as Hibbert's. And Aminu is good, but then again hes nothing to write home about. Granger is by far the best player in that deal and we wouldn't be getting a good trade if it was just trading him, let alone adding Hibbert.

IT would be the first college basketball team in the pros though....;)

imbtyler
02-02-2011, 05:43 PM
Hope Sterling is cheap (he is!) & sees EJ as a headache to resign EJ & decides he wants to save $ ASAP.

Granger/Foster/Rush for EJ/Kaman/Gomes

LAC puts Granger w/ Griffen, & Rush is a nice young piece @ SG, & could give them a very tough lineup for n/y, + they save > 6 min n/y.

IN lands a local potentiel star in EJ, P.George moves to a starter, & Kaman/Hibbert @ C is tough. Gomes is necessary for $, nothing more.

(not gonna happen though...)

This. :(

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 05:43 PM
I agree its a horrible trade but

no need to *** on him in front of the entire board,

I think he's a young cat too

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 05:52 PM
I agree its a horrible trade but

no need to *** on him in front of the entire board,

I think he's a young cat too

That pic gets used all the time on the internet, can't get all upset by it. Itz de interwebz dood

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 05:57 PM
I agree its a horrible trade but

no need to *** on him in front of the entire board,

I think he's a young cat too

Don't worry about me, I know my stuff. The name Thoreau87 should let you know I'm not a "young cat". I've watched every Pacer and Clipper game over the past 2 years (and watched every Pacer game since I can remember).

No questions asked: Jordan is better then Hibbert already with more potential and Aminu will be better then Danny.

Why are you so scared of going young? Plain and simple, we're not going to win a title with our so called "core" of young players.

The only point you can argue is that we could possibly receive more for Hibbert and Danny on the trade market.

Can't wait until ESPN puts out there next list of player values (based on trade value not skill) and see both Aminu and Jordan above Hibbert and Granger. It's sad because I love Hibbert and Granger but nonetheless true.

The Jackson shimmy
02-02-2011, 05:58 PM
For those who view Favors as purely 'speculative potential' (which
is accurate, but largely irrelevant when it comes to projecting where
he may be as a player 2-3 yrs from now) how does that differ from
what J.O. was while still in Portland prior to DW 'seeing' what he
could become and acquiring him ?

Kaufman
02-02-2011, 06:03 PM
23 makes you young, son. be proud of it.



Don't worry about me, I know my stuff. The name Thoreau87 should let you know I'm not a "young cat". I've watched every Pacer and Clipper game over the past 2 years (and watched every Pacer game since I can remember).

No questions asked: Jordan is better then Hibbert already with more potential and Aminu will be better then Danny.

Why are you so scared of going young? Plain and simple, we're not going to win a title with our so called "core" of young players.

The only point you can argue is that we could possibly receive more for Hibbert and Danny on the trade market.

Can't wait until ESPN puts out there next list of player values (based on trade value not skill) and see both Aminu and Jordan above Hibbert and Granger. It's sad because I love Hibbert and Granger but nonetheless true.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 06:03 PM
Don't worry about me, I know my stuff. The name Thoreau87 should let you know I'm not a "young cat". I've watched every Pacer and Clipper game over the past 2 years (and watched every Pacer game since I can remember)

Alrighty then, trust me I wont worry about you

"young" is relative , Im in my mid 30's and assumed 87 was your birthday, so if true, then yeah 24 is "young" for me

you seem kinda angry though

Kaufman
02-02-2011, 06:04 PM
don't be so angry either

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 06:04 PM
Wow you are overrating Aminu and Jordan is an understatement. Jordan is athletic, not really skilled. He goes great with a guy like Griffin who takes all the pressure away from him. Hibbert's stats when he was down were just as good as Jordan's are playing his best right now. Put him as out starting C and man our front court really takes a dive.

And what has Aminu shown you that he is going to be better than Granger? I haven't seen much from him.

No one is scared of going young because we already are young. That trade is a couple steps backwards. Who cares about trade value, I care about what they do on the court. Granger and Hibbert do far more than Kaman, Aminu, and Jordan.

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 06:05 PM
Don't worry about me, I know my stuff. The name Thoreau87 should let you know I'm not a "young cat". I've watched every Pacer and Clipper game over the past 2 years (and watched every Pacer game since I can remember).

No questions asked: Jordan is better then Hibbert already with more potential and Aminu will be better then Danny.

Why are you so scared of going young? Plain and simple, we're not going to win a title with our so called "core" of young players.

The only point you can argue is that we could possibly receive more for Hibbert and Danny on the trade market.

Can't wait until ESPN puts out there next list of player values (based on trade value not skill) and see both Aminu and Jordan above Hibbert and Granger. It's sad because I love Hibbert and Granger but nonetheless true.

Ive watch every Clipper game for the past 3 yrs. Dude Jordan is not better than Hibbert Jordan plays as a garbage man next to Blake so that really inflates his stats. He is a good center but right now he is not better Roy. I really liked Aminu coming out but I dont like him now his body language sucks and just doesnt seem to give 110%. Plus he isnt verstile he can only play the 3 I like his defense but I dont like his game overall anymore.

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 06:06 PM
Alrighty then, trust me I wont worry about you

"young" is relative , Im in my mid 30's and assumed 87 was your birthday, so if true, then yeah 24 is "young" for me

you seem kinda angry though

I'm not angry :-)... closed mindedness can be frustrating though.

PacersPride
02-02-2011, 06:07 PM
i think it bares repeating. Bird has stated.. unless a trade is going to benefit us, he is not going to make a move; and has made it very clear Granger is next too untouchable. They want to add too Danny, not the other way around.

If the Clipps are not trading Gordon, end of discussion imo.

The Jackson shimmy
02-02-2011, 06:07 PM
k lewis93-

'Not many players would have done what he has for us' ?

What does that mean ? Did I miss something ? Has Granger been
playing for the Pacers 'for free' all these years ?

imbtyler
02-02-2011, 06:11 PM
Don't worry about me, I know my stuff. The name Thoreau87 should let you know I'm not a "young cat". I've watched every Pacer and Clipper game over the past 2 years (and watched every Pacer game since I can remember).

No questions asked: Jordan is better then Hibbert already with more potential and Aminu will be better then Danny.

Why are you so scared of going young? Plain and simple, we're not going to win a title with our so called "core" of young players.

The only point you can argue is that we could possibly receive more for Hibbert and Danny on the trade market.

Can't wait until ESPN puts out there next list of player values (based on trade value not skill) and see both Aminu and Jordan above Hibbert and Granger. It's sad because I love Hibbert and Granger but nonetheless true.

This especially. DeAndre Jordan can get up and jam, and is aggressive in the paint. Yeh, he achieves a lot more because of the people he's around, but his athleticism is greater than Hibbert's, and his work ethic is just as great.

Also, I'm almost positive that Aminu will be an even bigger star in four years than Granger has been in six. Potential says a lot about a player. Granger's "ceiling" is much lower than Aminu's, which is probably a factor as to why he was drafted at 8 instead of 17.

I wouldn't mind getting Jordan and Aminu in for Granger, but not necessarily for Granger and Roy. I wouldn't mind using Aminu to get something else, since I can see Paul as our starting SF (instead of starting SG, a shared belief of some of you).

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 06:14 PM
This especially. DeAndre Jordan can get up and jam, and is aggressive in the paint. Yeh, he achieves a lot more because of the people he's around, but his athleticism is greater than Hibbert's, and his work ethic is just as great.

Also, I'm almost positive that Aminu will be an even bigger star in four years than Granger has been in six. Potential says a lot about a player. Granger's "ceiling" is much lower than Aminu's, which is probably a factor as to why he was drafted at 8 instead of 17.

I wouldn't mind getting Jordan and Aminu in for Granger, but not necessarily for Granger and Roy. I wouldn't mind using Aminu to get something else, since I can see Paul as our starting SF (instead of starting SG, a shared belief of some of you).

I ask Danny's dad why he slipped so far in the draft. He said a lot of teams were afraid his knee would not hold up luckly it has. Danny was project as a top 10 pick his celing isnt as low as u make it out to be.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 06:16 PM
Ugh.. I don't understand why we're talking potential when we're comparing Danny to Aminu. Aminu is averaging like 6 whopping points while Danny has been averaging a mean of about 23 over the past three years. Danny already IS what Aminu CAN BE and probably WON'T BE.

Also, DeAndre disappears more than any player that I have ever seen in my life. Just throwing that out there. The grass really isn't greener on the other side.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 06:16 PM
For those who view Favors as purely 'speculative potential' (which
is accurate, but largely irrelevant when it comes to projecting where
he may be as a player 2-3 yrs from now) how does that differ from
what J.O. was while still in Portland prior to DW 'seeing' what he
could become and acquiring him ?

Thats an excellent point man

LA_Confidential
02-02-2011, 06:19 PM
Im blown away by some of these ideas that have been tossed up. I agree 100% no Gordon, no deal.

90'sNBARocked
02-02-2011, 06:19 PM
Ive watch every Clipper game for the past 3 yrs. Dude Jordan is not better than Hibbert Jordan plays as a garbage man next to Blake so that really inflates his stats. He is a good center but right now he is not better Roy. I really liked Aminu coming out but I dont like him now his body language sucks and just doesnt seem to give 110%. Plus he isnt verstile he can only play the 3 I like his defense but I dont like his game overall anymore.

God knows how or why, but you are the biggest Clipper fan I have met in my life

:)

xBulletproof
02-02-2011, 06:19 PM
This especially. DeAndre Jordan can get up and jam, and is aggressive in the paint. Yeh, he achieves a lot more because of the people he's around, but his athleticism is greater than Hibbert's, and his work ethic is just as great.

Jordan can't shoot outside of the 5 feet. Seriously, I looked it up a while back, he took like 200+ dunks/layups last year, and around 30 shots of any other kind while shooting a horrible percentage on everything but shots at the rim. You absolutely have to have someone capable of taking all the attention away from him to get points out of him at all.

He will be a bigger influence on defense, but he'll all but disappear on offense without help. Hibbert should be a much more balanced center who demands some attention on both ends of the floor.

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 06:20 PM
Ive watch every Clipper game for the past 3 yrs. Dude Jordan is not better than Hibbert Jordan plays as a garbage man next to Blake so that really inflates his stats. He is a good center but right now he is not better Roy. I really liked Aminu coming out but I dont like him now his body language sucks and just doesnt seem to give 110%. Plus he isnt verstile he can only play the 3 I like his defense but I dont like his game overall anymore.

Hibbert hasn't averaged over 10 rebounds a game since high school. He's 7 foot 2 (that's what deserves the Picard SMH lol). DeAndre Jordan (before his 1 poor year in college) was projected to be the #1 pick in the NBA draft (The year D Rose went #1). He killed himself with a bad work ethic until he met Blake, who has brought the potential out of DeAndre. It's not happenstance that Jordan is 4th in the league in dunks while Hibbert is 27th, and it's not a mistake that Jordan has more blocks on the season while playing less minutes per game. Not to mention he did this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5g_so6cOZA

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 06:21 PM
This especially. DeAndre Jordan can get up and jam, and is aggressive in the paint. Yeh, he achieves a lot more because of the people he's around, but his athleticism is greater than Hibbert's, and his work ethic is just as great.

Also, I'm almost positive that Aminu will be an even bigger star in four years than Granger has been in six. Potential says a lot about a player. Granger's "ceiling" is much lower than Aminu's, which is probably a factor as to why he was drafted at 8 instead of 17.

I wouldn't mind getting Jordan and Aminu in for Granger, but not necessarily for Granger and Roy. I wouldn't mind using Aminu to get something else, since I can see Paul as our starting SF (instead of starting SG, a shared belief of some of you).

DeAndre Jordan is more athletic than Hibbert. Thats how he gets all 7 points of his. Off of rebounds or an alley oop. He has very little skill in the post. He no where near the level that Roy is. And Roy has one of the best work ethic's I've ever seen.

Aminu can't hold Granger's jock strap right now. He has some potential, but I doubt he gets to Granger's level, let alone surpasses it. Its a terrible trade idea and we would be as good as the Cavs.

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 06:25 PM
God knows how or why, but you are the biggest Clipper fan I have met in my life

:)

Im a bigger Pacer fan but when JOB was here I didnt follow the pacers nearly as closely. Plus the Clippers play at 10:30 normaly so I can watch both teams normaly I get home from the fieldhouse around 10 and the Clipper game is ready to start. They are the only reason i have LP lol. But I normaly watch other teams on pacers and Clipper off nights.

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 06:25 PM
Jordan can't shoot outside of the 5 feet. Seriously, I looked it up a while back, he took like 200+ dunks/layups last year, and around 30 shots of any other kind while shooting a horrible percentage on everything but shots at the rim. You absolutely have to have someone capable of taking all the attention away from him to get points out of him at all.

He will be a bigger influence on defense, but he'll all but disappear on offense without help. Hibbert should be a much more balanced center who demands some attention on both ends of the floor.

Hibbert shoots 43.9% and he's a 7 foot 2 center... You can't talk about DeAndre's poor shooting when his game is above the rim and he excels at it. He shoots 64%! That's great no matter how you slice it.

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 06:26 PM
Hibbert hasn't averaged over 10 rebounds a game since high school. He's 7 foot 2 (that's what deserves the Picard SMH lol). DeAndre Jordan (before his 1 poor year in college) was projected to be the #1 pick in the NBA draft (The year D Rose went #1). He killed himself with a bad work ethic until he met Blake, who has brought the potential out of DeAndre. It's not happenstance that Jordan is 4th in the league in dunks while Hibbert is 27th, and it's not a mistake that Jordan has more blocks on the season while playing less minutes per game. Not to mention he did this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5g_so6cOZA

And when was the last time Jordan averaged 10 boards a game? Roy averages more than Jordan does in similar minutes (Roy-27 mpg Jordan-25.6mpg). And I want my center to be able to do more than dunk. Roy's game is miles ahead of Jordan. If the potential of Jordan is 7 and 7 then I will keep Hibbert all day every day.

EDIT: And Hibbert averages more Blocks per game.

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 06:27 PM
Im a bigger Pacer fan but when JOB was here I didnt follow the pacers nearly as closely. Plus the Clippers play at 10:30 normaly so I can watch both teams normaly I get home from the fieldhouse around 10 and the Clipper game is ready to start. They are the only reason i have LP lol. But I normaly watch other teams on pacers and Clipper off nights.

Same here lol... Love the start time difference.

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 06:28 PM
Hibbert shoots 43.9% and he's a 7 foot 2 center... You can't talk about DeAndre's poor shooting when his game is above the rim and he excels at it. He shoots 64%! That's great no matter how you slice it.

CAUSE ALL HE DOES IS DUNK! The dude has no offensive skill set. How can you not acknowledge this? He gets put backs and averages 7 points a game. He's Josh McRoberts on offense with worse passing and no jump shot!

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 06:29 PM
Hibbert hasn't averaged over 10 rebounds a game since high school. He's 7 foot 2 (that's what deserves the Picard SMH lol). DeAndre Jordan (before his 1 poor year in college) was projected to be the #1 pick in the NBA draft (The year D Rose went #1). He killed himself with a bad work ethic until he met Blake, who has brought the potential out of DeAndre. It's not happenstance that Jordan is 4th in the league in dunks while Hibbert is 27th, and it's not a mistake that Jordan has more blocks on the season while playing less minutes per game. Not to mention he did this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5g_so6cOZA

Deandre and Blake do everything together they are really close best friends at least thats what Eric's mom says. Im not saying Deandre wont be better but right now he is very raw offensivly and that might be an understatement. I do love his blocks and rebounds and wouldnt mind him as are starting center. But we need a PF like Carlos Boozer who is very good offensivly who can help Jordan get easy buckets. The kid is a very good center but not as good as hibbert yet.

xBulletproof
02-02-2011, 06:30 PM
Hibbert shoots 43.9% and he's a 7 foot 2 center... You can't talk about DeAndre's poor shooting when his game is above the rim and he excels at it. He shoots 64%! That's great no matter how you slice it.

Almost any player in the NBA could shoot that percentage if they refused to shoot unless it was a dunk or layup. Deandre plays 25 to 30 minutes per game, and takes FOUR shots per game. I don't care what your percentage is at that point, it's not very impressive.

And lets be fair about Hibbert here, he shoots 47% on his career. He's had a bad shooting one and a half months that skews his FG% pretty low for the season. It should recover.

Midcoasted
02-02-2011, 06:31 PM
do not want Eric Gordon. Definitely one of the most overated SGs out there. Sure he was good offense, but I still think being undersized is the last thing I want from a wing player. I could only imagine hpw horrible his defense would be here in Indiana...Paul George and Granger at the wings all day...They can keep Gordon. I'd like to see Lance get some burn as a Gordon type of players, but at least he is not undersized and I'm sure his wing span is way bigger than Gordon's.

O'Braindead
02-02-2011, 06:32 PM
Hibbert hasn't averaged over 10 rebounds a game since high school. He's 7 foot 2 (that's what deserves the Picard SMH lol). DeAndre Jordan (before his 1 poor year in college) was projected to be the #1 pick in the NBA draft (The year D Rose went #1). He killed himself with a bad work ethic until he met Blake, who has brought the potential out of DeAndre. It's not happenstance that Jordan is 4th in the league in dunks while Hibbert is 27th, and it's not a mistake that Jordan has more blocks on the season while playing less minutes per game. Not to mention he did this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5g_so6cOZA

Are you Kofi?

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 06:37 PM
And when was the last time Jordan averaged 10 boards a game? Roy averages more than Jordan does in similar minutes (Roy-27 mpg Jordan-25.6mpg). And I want my center to be able to do more than dunk. Roy's game is miles ahead of Jordan. If the potential of Jordan is 7 and 7 then I will keep Hibbert all day every day.

EDIT: And Hibbert averages more Blocks per game.

To each their own. Hibbert has started over twice as many games as DeAndre in their respective careers. This season Hibbert has progressively declined his numbers (pts, rbs, and blks) with every passing month. DeAndre is the opposite, he's developed nicely in his first full year as a starter. I'd say his potential would more closely resemble the 8 point, 10 rebound, 3 block per game numbers he averaged over January.

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 06:37 PM
Are you Kofi?

Nope...

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 06:46 PM
do not want Eric Gordon. Definitely one of the most overated SGs out there. Sure he was good offense, but I still think being undersized is the last thing I want from a wing player. I could only imagine hpw horrible his defense would be here in Indiana...Paul George and Granger at the wings all day...They can keep Gordon. I'd like to see Lance get some burn as a Gordon type of players, but at least he is not undersized and I'm sure his wing span is way bigger than Gordon's.

One of the biggest assets of EJ's game is his defense (mostly the intensity). It's one of the main reasons he got heavy burn this summer with team USA. Take a look at some of his defensive highlights and you'll see what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vho7HNgqRsQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dxrv8sNeIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZFZeDhnLaY

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 06:47 PM
One of the biggest assets of EJ's game is his defense (mostly the intensity). It's one of the main reasons he got heavy burn this summer with team USA. Take a look at some of his defensive highlights and you'll see what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vho7HNgqRsQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dxrv8sNeIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZFZeDhnLaY

Eric is a better defender than Granger dont know what he was talking about

xBulletproof
02-02-2011, 06:59 PM
Eric is a better defender than Granger dont know what he was talking about

Agreed. I think it's mostly a perception thing that because he isn't as tall as most SG's, people can just shoot over him without worrying. True to an extent, but I'm 6'2 and when I played ball with college guys who were 6'4 or 6'5 guarding me it never bothered my jumper, and I'm not an NBA talent. I think NBA players can get their jump shot off no matter the height of the guy guarding them. That's one aspect of height I think is overrated. Matters much more in NBA 2K11 than real life.

Eleazar
02-02-2011, 07:07 PM
Agreed. I think it's mostly a perception thing that because he isn't as tall as most SG's, people can just shoot over him without worrying. True to an extent, but I'm 6'2 and when I played ball with college guys who were 6'4 or 6'5 guarding me it never bothered my jumper, and I'm not an NBA talent. I think NBA players can get their jump shot off no matter the height of the guy guarding them. That's one aspect of height I think is overrated. Matters much more in NBA 2K11 than real life.

I completely agree with your statement. There are some advantages, but overall it has less affect than most people make it out to be.

Anyone remember when Rik Smits was blocked by I believe John Starks?

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 07:09 PM
To each their own. Hibbert has started over twice as many games as DeAndre in their respective careers. This season Hibbert has progressively declined his numbers (pts, rbs, and blks) with every passing month. DeAndre is the opposite, he's developed nicely in his first full year as a starter. I'd say his potential would more closely resemble the 8 point, 10 rebound, 3 block per game numbers he averaged over January.

There is no doubt that Hibbert was in a slump, but I lets see him under the new coach where he won't be yanked for a mistake. Look what he did in the first game with Vogel. 24 points, 10 boards. Hibbert is miles ahead of Jordan because Jordan has absolutely no offensive game.

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 07:41 PM
There is no doubt that Hibbert was in a slump, but I lets see him under the new coach where he won't be yanked for a mistake. Look what he did in the first game with Vogel. 24 points, 10 boards. Hibbert is miles ahead of Jordan because Jordan has absolutely no offensive game.

DeAndre is a developing star. He's the exact same height and weight of Dwight Howard, and possesses an equal level of athletic ability (not saying he's going to be that good, but he's already a poor man's version). He has the athletic ability to develop and he's shown as much in his short time as a starter (no one trips and falls on 4th in the league in dunks). Jordan finishes, Hibbert misses gimmie layups. The difference between good and great teams is the ability to finish around the basket. Hibbert on the other hand is at a crossroads where he's looking like he could be the next Big Z... As much as I hate to say it and would love to be wrong.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 08:30 PM
Im a bigger Pacer fan but when JOB was here I didnt follow the pacers nearly as closely. Plus the Clippers play at 10:30 normaly so I can watch both teams normaly I get home from the fieldhouse around 10 and the Clipper game is ready to start. They are the only reason i have LP lol. But I normaly watch other teams on pacers and Clipper off nights.

What about school? There's no way I'd be able to stay up that late and then wake up at 6 in the morning or so.

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 08:33 PM
DeAndre is a developing star. He's the exact same height and weight of Dwight Howard, and possesses an equal level of athletic ability (not saying he's going to be that good, but he's already a poor man's version). He has the athletic ability to develop and he's shown as much in his short time as a starter (no one trips and falls on 4th in the league in dunks). Jordan finishes, Hibbert misses gimmie layups. The difference between good and great teams is the ability to finish around the basket. Hibbert on the other hand is at a crossroads where he's looking like he could be the next Big Z... As much as I hate to say it and would love to be wrong.

One, I doubt Dwight is actually 265, the dude is jacked and makes Jordan look like a boy. Two, Dwight is personally coached by Patrick Ewing. Jordan is a homeless mans version of Howard. He will never be a star in this league.

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 08:35 PM
What about school? There's no way I'd be able to stay up that late and then wake up at 6 in the morning or so.

I can go on a few hrs of sleep i normaly get to bed at about 2

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 08:47 PM
One, I doubt Dwight is actually 265, the dude is jacked and makes Jordan look like a boy. Two, Dwight is personally coached by Patrick Ewing. Jordan is a homeless mans version of Howard. He will never be a star in this league.

It's amazing you can make a comment like that when the kid is only 22 in his first season as a starter and he's already fourth in the league in dunks while at the same time being one of the hottest defensive players in the league at the moment. Lol@Never gonna be a star. You must know the future or something because evidence points to the contrary.

Kstat
02-02-2011, 08:49 PM
Deandre Jordan is a guy with off-the-charts physical attributes that couldn't manage to be productive in HS, college or the NBA, until he was put next to Blake Griffin.

He's a guy that excels when nobody is paying any attention to him at all. Not saying anybody can do that...but the fact remains, nobody is paying any attention to him at all when he's on the floor.

He's going to get a massive payday from somebody this summer. Just not sure he's going to produce when he isn't next to the most intimidating PF in the league.

pacer4ever
02-02-2011, 08:52 PM
Deandre Jordan is a guy that couldn't be productive in HS, college or the NBA, until he was put next to Blake Griffin.

He's a guy that excels when nobody is paying any attention to him at all. Not saying anybody can do that...but the fact remains, nobody is paying any attention to him at all when he's on the floor.

This he needs a star at the 4 to be successfull

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 09:03 PM
Deandre Jordan is a guy with off-the-charts physical attributes that couldn't manage to be productive in HS, college or the NBA, until he was put next to Blake Griffin.

He's a guy that excels when nobody is paying any attention to him at all. Not saying anybody can do that...but the fact remains, nobody is paying any attention to him at all when he's on the floor.

He's going to get a massive payday from somebody this summer. Just not sure he's going to produce when he isn't next to the most intimidating PF in the league.

He was productive enough to be a High School All-American and make it to the NBA where he's been producing well enough to get a "massive payday". And what does Blake do for DeAndre on D (where he excels)? He protects the paint like a real center should whether people pay attention to him or not.

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 09:52 PM
He was productive enough to be a High School All-American and make it to the NBA where he's been producing well enough to get a "massive payday". And what does Blake do for DeAndre on D (where he excels)? He protects the paint like a real center should whether people pay attention to him or not.

HE HAS NO OFFENSIVE SKILL SET! He can dunk and thats it. He doesn't over power people, he doesnt have post moves. All he does is score off easy dunks. Kstat is right. Jordan is the biggest benefactor of Blake Griffin. Your acting like he is a all star center. He wasn't a starter til Kaman got hurt. He didn't even earn his starting spot right now.

Kstat
02-02-2011, 10:01 PM
He excels at jumping straight up on D because he has Griffin to clean up the glass when he leaves his position. Jordan isn't Mutombo. He doesn't need to play smart defense, just lunge at everything.

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 10:54 PM
He excels at jumping straight up on D because he has Griffin to clean up the glass when he leaves his position. Jordan isn't Mutombo. He doesn't need to play smart defense, just lunge at everything.

Please explain what you're trying to say a little better. How does anything you just said justify increasingly great block numbers for DJ? He's getting better and better at blocking shots because he doesn't need to play smart, just lunge?

xBulletproof
02-02-2011, 10:54 PM
Comparing Jordan to Dwight is like comparing Granger to Scotty Pippen. It's a horrible comparison. Same sizes and athletic abilities, but both are seriously lacking in the skills to match the players you're comparing.

The problems Deandre had coming out of college are the same problems he has today. 3 years later. He hasn't progressed nearly enough in 3 years. You're off calling him a future star. No way. For goodness sakes the guy struggles to shoot 40% from the FT line. So I doubt he can become a good jump shooter, and his footwork is still bad.

I've advocated getting Jordan, but at a limited price. He COULD be a good player, but a star? That's an extremely long shot.


Please explain what you're trying to say a little better. How does anything you just said justify increasingly great block numbers for DJ? He's getting better and better at blocking shots because he doesn't need to play smart, just lunge?

Actually per minute, this is his 2nd best shot blocking year. He's not better, he's just playing more.

ilive4sports
02-02-2011, 11:15 PM
Please explain what you're trying to say a little better. How does anything you just said justify increasingly great block numbers for DJ? He's getting better and better at blocking shots because he doesn't need to play smart, just lunge?

Jordan is the beneficiary of a lot of weak side blocks. No one is saying he isn't good at blocking shots, because he is. But standing there and saying he is gonna be Dwight Howard is ridiculous. He averages less blocks than Hibbert. He averages less points than Hibbert. He averages less rebounds than Hibbert. He averages less assists than Hibbert. He's a worse shooter than Hibbert. You know what this all adds up to? Hibbert is a better player.

BringJackBack
02-02-2011, 11:18 PM
Put DeAndre in Hibbert's situation and he's Solomon Jones with more hops.

PaceBalls
02-02-2011, 11:35 PM
I am starting to think Hibbert's November was a fluke. I mean as soon as defense's tried to double team him he caved. He gets all this talk about being a great passer, but I see a big black hole there. He rarely chooses to pass it out of the low post when he gets it, even facing a double team, he forces the action to get HIS shot. JO had more of a tendancy to pass it than Roy has shown. It is bad basketball. Add to that his line drive hookshot bricks that always miss unless he gets lucky. I don't like it.

At this point the only thing Hibbert has going for him is his rookie contract.

I'd do whatever it takes to get EJ here, if that is Hibbert and Granger than so be it.

Pacersalltheway10
02-02-2011, 11:49 PM
The Hibbert trade talk died down. Now it is back on when he has just recorded 2 double doubles in a row. Also he is averaging 3 blocks per game in the last 4 games.

hibbert>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jordan

I would like to see jordan with james posey as Pf and still put up 15 and 8 per game ( hibberts averages).

Also Danny Granger AND hibbert>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gordon

Pacersalltheway10
02-02-2011, 11:52 PM
Please explain what you're trying to say a little better. How does anything you just said justify increasingly great block numbers for DJ? He's getting better and better at blocking shots because he doesn't need to play smart, just lunge?

no, can you please explain a little better???

Thoreau87
02-02-2011, 11:59 PM
Comparing Jordan to Dwight is like comparing Granger to Scotty Pippen. It's a horrible comparison. Same sizes and athletic abilities, but both are seriously lacking in the skills to match the players you're comparing.

The problems Deandre had coming out of college are the same problems he has today. 3 years later. He hasn't progressed nearly enough in 3 years. You're off calling him a future star. No way. For goodness sakes the guy struggles to shoot 40% from the FT line. So I doubt he can become a good jump shooter, and his footwork is still bad.

I've advocated getting Jordan, but at a limited price. He COULD be a good player, but a star? That's an extremely long shot.



Actually per minute, this is his 2nd best shot blocking year. He's not better, he's just playing more.

This is my last post on DeAndre and I'll try to address everyone's points so I don't have to do this again.

He wasn't even a starter until Kaman got hurt... Kaman was an all-star last year and was the highest scoring center in the NBA and DJ has officially stolen his spot. Kaman won't start even when he comes back.

Can't compare DJ to Dwight... Same height, same weight, both explosive. Every criticism offensively brought up against Dwight has also been brought up against DJ. No offensive skills, he can only dunk, poor free throw shooting. Where do they both excel? Dunking and Defense. Sounds pretty similar to me.

The same problems he has now he had 3 years ago... This is his first year as a starter. Evaluate him after he gets a consistent role. He's got that now and he's playing some of the best D in the league while improving every facet of his game month to month.Blake came in with a work ethic DeAndre did not know existed. Blake has DeAndre working harder than he ever thought possible, thus elevating his game.

DeAndre has no offensive skill set... Is dunking not a skill? You'd think so after watching Hibbert miss multiple easy lay ups against the Cavs tonight. Dunking is an offensive skill and being fourth in the league means your great at it. DJ is better at dunking then Hibbert is at anyone one skill (if you don't count being tall). With that said, DJ's very raw and has many areas that Hibbert far out classes him.

He doesn't overpower people... This I can say with assurance, as I've watched nearly all of DJ's games, he can overpower people and dunk on them. I've seen him do it countless times to the best and the worst in the NBA. All his dunks are not put backs (tip dunks) and oops. He's quite good at grabbing an offensive board, gathering himself, making a head fake, power step deeper into the paint, and then it's curtains.

Simply put... I think DJ would bring the most out of DC and improve our interior D. But to each their own.

EDIT: Please stop saying I said he's going to be Dwight Howard. Reread all of my posts on the topic. At most I called him a poor man's Dwight Howard, pointed out their similarities, and said he's got the potential to be an all-star.

PacerGuy
02-02-2011, 11:59 PM
Thing I've noticed is Hibbert no longer "shoots" the ball, he "throws" the ball up at the rim (& pray's). He is missing way too many easy shots, is not dinking when he should, & is getting bullied in the paint. What happened to the "anchor" that B.Walton had him talking about being? What happened to the guy that shot the ball w/ confidence & took it hard to the rim, vs. this puss hook-shoot, fade-away shooting Euro'ish that I'm seeing out there now? Roy looks like he did l/y (or worse) - clueless & playing WITH men, not BEING a man!!!
I LOVE Roy, but he needs to get his head out of his arse & start playing like the talent he is. If Franky V has Roy's ear, he needs to build back his confidence & add a mean streak, or Roy will forever be Stewart Gray. I know it's only yr. 3, but he was a senior when drafted, & he has been given the min's. IMO he needs a vet (or coach - P.Ewing!) who can help him/ challenge him. (Maybe we can do a deal & bring B.Miller back. He expires same yr. as Roy, & Houston is likely to go into rebuild mode w/ Yao likely done.)

Kstat
02-03-2011, 12:36 AM
Jordan has the luxury of lunging at every ball in the air because he has blake griffin behind him to clean up if he misses. A really good shot blocker doesn't leave his feet but a few times per game to challenge a shot. Jordan leaves his feet every ten seconds.

ballism
02-03-2011, 08:03 AM
I'm not a big fan of Jordan, but noone can deny that he has improved a lot compared to the start of the season. Star - not likely, but he looks like a legitimate starter now, and that was not the case during the first few months of the season, when he started to fill in for injured Kaman. He looked really bad till mid December.

Maybe he stole Hibbert's mojo? They went good-to-bad and bad-to-good at same time...

TinManJoshua
02-03-2011, 03:21 PM
Put DeAndre in Hibbert's situation and he's Solomon Jones with more hops.

I think that's underestimating Solo's hops, to be honest.