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View Full Version : where would the pacers be with Donnie?



speakout4
02-01-2011, 03:45 PM
In evaluating Bird's accomplishments or lack thereof where would the team be if DW were still here and in charge?

We know who Larry brought in and who Donnie drafted as a Knick. We know the smart moves they both made such as Donnie picking up Shawne again and giving Landry Fields a shot. We know what Larry did in the same period but who do you think would have made the pacers a better team in the last three or four years.

PacersPride
02-01-2011, 04:04 PM
I respect Walsh in his time here with the Pacers very much. There is no way to answer this questions, but I truly believe it was time for Walsh too move on. Primarily it has to do with his health, and patience was gonna be required for the Pacers to be in the kind of position they are in now, something Walsh likely no longer had.

Since the ? cannot truly be answered, i would just say i cannot imagine being in a much better position than we are right now, as a small market team.

continue to build via the draft and wise FA signings.

LA_Confidential
02-01-2011, 04:07 PM
Borderline playoff team, Just like we are now. All I know is, Im happy with the direction of this franchise and look forward to its future. BTW, Donnie may not be back in NY next year, same as Bird may not be back with us.

BillS
02-01-2011, 04:09 PM
:onozomg:

Roaming Gnome
02-01-2011, 04:14 PM
:onozomg:

I feel some good old fashioned "Core Vs Bore" discussion coming. Calling all Walsh Warriors!!! There is some retro discussion about to go down!

BringJackBack
02-01-2011, 04:19 PM
Where would we be? We'd be sitting on some bad contracts.

cdash
02-01-2011, 04:21 PM
NBA title contenders for sure.

BillS
02-01-2011, 04:24 PM
I feel some good old fashioned "Core Vs Bore" discussion coming. Calling all Walsh Warriors!!! There is some retro discussion about to go down!

Not from me. I agreed with many that his "now" is not his "past", and a lot of the league and the expectations of big-name players have passed him by.

Hicks
02-01-2011, 04:40 PM
NBA title contenders for sure.

For sure?!

Day-V
02-01-2011, 04:51 PM
San Jose.

xBulletproof
02-01-2011, 04:56 PM
For sure?!

For sarcasm. :-p

Midcoasted
02-01-2011, 05:07 PM
We would be still giving players like Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson love I bet. Donnie Walsh was doomed to fail here in Indiana. He had seemed to lose the knack to identify the human side of basketball and evaluated on talent alone, which netted us players who were good enough to compete, but did not posess the basketball IQ of champions. Indiana just isn't the lure for the average me first, dumbass player who is so talented that you deal with it.

Bird has done a phenomenal job bringing us young talent, that not only is talented, but includes hard workers, winners, and good respectable stand up guys. It's not like we drafted milk drinkers who suck or are soft, we drafted hard nosed, work hard, play for the team and the fans milk drinkers :buddies:

Hitman02
02-01-2011, 05:21 PM
Perhaps I'm a little ignorant here since I don't really follow the Knicks but, weren't two of Donnie's best NY moves Amare and D'Antoni? I think the city of New York had something to do with them coming on board. I wonder what kind of free agents Donnie would get for the Pacers?

Fields was a shrewd move. Anyone else wonder if Walsh would have gone for Tyler? Seems like George is his kind of guy...

Doddage
02-01-2011, 05:34 PM
NBA title contenders for sure.
http://bluwiki.com/images/5/59/Not_sure_if_serious_small.jpg

rm1369
02-01-2011, 06:04 PM
We would be still giving players like Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson love I bet. Donnie Walsh was doomed to fail here in Indiana. He had seemed to lose the knack to identify the human side of basketball and evaluated on talent alone, which netted us players who were good enough to compete, but did not posess the basketball IQ of champions. Indiana just isn't the lure for the average me first, dumbass player who is so talented that you deal with it.

Bird has done a phenomenal job bringing us young talent, that not only is talented, but includes hard workers, winners, and good respectable stand up guys. It's not like we drafted milk drinkers who suck or are soft, we drafted hard nosed, work hard, play for the team and the fans milk drinkers :buddies:

Bird has a long way to go to come close to matching the success DW had with the Pacers - even if you consider it limited because of the lack of a title. So far all of those good proven winners Bird drafted have netted us jack. Is more time needed? Certainly. But talent is the single most important thing to team success in the NBA. I'm not sold on any of them, except PG, being more than role players. This team is sorely lacking in talent, so IMO, we are extremly far away from being a true contender. The fact we have mostly nice guys doesnt and hasnt helped the win column at all. And let's not forget that Bird has had his own fascination with questionable characrters - Shawne Williams and Lance. Shawne was a disaster. Lance is still TBD. As you can guess, I'm nowhere near ready to sing Birds praises.

I personally have no problem with the team DW assembled. It was a true title contender. There's no question it imploded, but I dont believe that it was the foregone conclusion some believe. Plently of teams have won titles with questionable characters - LA, Chicago, Detriot... Contrary to popular belief, you dont have to be a great role model to win (see rasheed wallace) and your players dont have to love each other (see Shaq and Kobe). The problem, IMO, wasn't the assembly of the team - it was the string of failures after it bacame obvious it wasnt going to work. The GS trade has more to do with the current state of the Pacers than the actual brawl does. (I know the brawl is the supposed reason the trade was necessary - but it wasnt necessary) Bird was here for all of the moves that doomed this franchise. Is he at fault? Who knows. The beauty (tragedy) of the two headed monster is that both and neither are responsible for what occured. The only thing I know is that DWs track record before he teamed with LB was pretty good. We'll see what LB does, but so far I see a bunch of role players that everyone loves because they are on the Ps. Put them in another jersey and I doubt many here would consider the last three years a huge success.

speakout4
02-01-2011, 07:15 PM
I thought DW lost it here and just let the clock run down. He became rejuvenated when he went to NY and asked to make the Knicks relevant again.
The Donnie we last saw in Indy is not the same guy now.

Midcoasted
02-01-2011, 08:26 PM
Bird has a long way to go to come close to matching the success DW had with the Pacers - even if you consider it limited because of the lack of a title. So far all of those good proven winners Bird drafted have netted us jack. Is more time needed? Certainly. But talent is the single most important thing to team success in the NBA. I'm not sold on any of them, except PG, being more than role players. This team is sorely lacking in talent, so IMO, we are extremly far away from being a true contender. The fact we have mostly nice guys doesnt and hasnt helped the win column at all. And let's not forget that Bird has had his own fascination with questionable characrters - Shawne Williams and Lance. Shawne was a disaster. Lance is still TBD. As you can guess, I'm nowhere near ready to sing Birds praises.

I personally have no problem with the team DW assembled. It was a true title contender. There's no question it imploded, but I dont believe that it was the foregone conclusion some believe. Plently of teams have won titles with questionable characters - LA, Chicago, Detriot... Contrary to popular belief, you dont have to be a great role model to win (see rasheed wallace) and your players dont have to love each other (see Shaq and Kobe). The problem, IMO, wasn't the assembly of the team - it was the string of failures after it bacame obvious it wasnt going to work. The GS trade has more to do with the current state of the Pacers than the actual brawl does. (I know the brawl is the supposed reason the trade was necessary - but it wasnt necessary) Bird was here for all of the moves that doomed this franchise. Is he at fault? Who knows. The beauty (tragedy) of the two headed monster is that both and neither are responsible for what occured. The only thing I know is that DWs track record before he teamed with LB was pretty good. We'll see what LB does, but so far I see a bunch of role players that everyone loves because they are on the Ps. Put them in another jersey and I doubt many here would consider the last three years a huge success.

Shawne Williams was under the two headed monster you speak of as well. All i can really do is compare when Donnie was president, and Larry's current presidency. I think the moves we have made since letting DW go have been good ones. Lance Stephenson is a 2nd round pick with all the talent in the world, so noone can really be dissapointed if he doesn't work out.

And to win a title all you need is one great player surrounded by a bunch of good role players. Look at the Bulls. If Paul George can ever become a true superstar in this league then maybe we aren't as far as you think. We have a bunch of good role players surrounding him. Granger Hibbert Hansbrough Collison McRoberts. I see them all as potential fringe all stars someday, and Granger already is one.

So let these players develop another year or two under a good coach, let's use our cap space, draft picks or expirers to get more talent, and we'll see. I don't think 2-5 years from contending is that unfeasible at all, actually it's probably the max window for this core of players. I expect in the 2012-2013 for the Pacers to be contenders again.

Marlin
02-01-2011, 08:32 PM
http://bluwiki.com/images/5/59/Not_sure_if_serious_small.jpg

Is that Jay Triano who the Joker is staring at?! :eek:

rm1369
02-01-2011, 08:46 PM
Yes, Shawne was under the two headed monster, but I believe it is very well established it was LBs pick. And I have no problem with the Lance pick. I only mention shawne and lance because of you suggesting Bird is only drafting good hardworking players.

I'd love for you to be right on the players. Unfortunatly I'm not nearly as high on any of them. I'm high on PG, but I'm not expecting him to be a #1 capable of leading a team to a title as you suggest.

Cherokee
02-01-2011, 10:12 PM
In worse shape.

dgranger17
02-02-2011, 01:35 AM
Yes, Shawne was under the two headed monster, but I believe it is very well established it was LBs pick. And I have no problem with the Lance pick. I only mention shawne and lance because of you suggesting Bird is only drafting good hardworking players.

I'd love for you to be right on the players. Unfortunatly I'm not nearly as high on any of them. I'm high on PG, but I'm not expecting him to be a #1 capable of leading a team to a title as you suggest.

Williams was released while Bird was in charge. Williams was signed by the Knicks while Walsh was in charge. I'm going with Walsh on this one, as well as James White (because name me one player who Bird drafted that is only known for dunking).

Bird brought us Collison, Rush, George, Hansbrough, Hibbert, McRoberts, and Dahntay to name a few. Not bad really in only 3 years with a ton of ****ty contracts and players bequeathed to him.

And don't get me started on post-Finals Walsh. He bails on us to "retire" and goes to the Knicks. Now he's "resurrected" the franchise... which is bull honky because pacer4ever, I Love P, Cole the Mole, IndyHoya, Kielbieze, or myself could have taken over the Knicks (if we wanted to, but since we're die-hard and loyal to the franchise we currently represent, we would never imagine... unless of course it is to run it into the ground) at the same time Walsh did and do what he has done. Remember, Donnie's boy Isiah Thomas saddled that team with horrible, horrendous, ugly contracts that coincidentally all expired together. Yea, he drafted Fields, but he also drafted Danilo Gallinari, Jordan Hill, and Andy Rautins. Not to mention he traded a 2012 1st rounder for T-Mac... much like he a traded away a P 1st rounder to re-acquire Harrington.

In conclusion... Larry Bird

dgranger17
02-02-2011, 01:38 AM
Forgot to add....

How hard is it to say, "Hey Amare, do you want to come play in New York for $100 million dollars?"

Sandman21
02-02-2011, 02:44 AM
Williams was released while Bird was in charge. Williams was signed by the Knicks while Walsh was in charge.
Actually we didn't release Shawne, we traded him to Dallas for a second round pick.