View Full Version : Looks like Vogels run as head coach will be short

02-01-2011, 11:48 AM

In the wake of Jim O'Brien's long overdue Indiana exodus, former Pacers associate coach Mike Brown (under Rick Carlisle) is the prohibitive favorite to take charge of the sidelines next season, regardless of whether Larry Bird and general manager David Morway are retained. Owner Herb Simon may be Brown's biggest fan . . . other than Danny Ferry, who refused to sign the announcement of his Cavaliers firing and resigned soon after as GM rather than accept a one-year extension.

"I don't care who takes over the Pacers," e-mails column contributor Ricky St. Jean. "Until your so-called leader/best player, Danny Granger, starts to play defense you are going to lose. There's no noticeable commitment on his part to play hard on either end, which means taking some contact. He is content to lose and score from beyond the 3-point line. How else can you explain 242 3-pointers vs. 229 free throw attempts?"

True about Danny?

02-01-2011, 11:55 AM
I'd be in favor of either Vogel (If he's still consistent and trusted) or Brown to be the head coach. Admittedly though, my emotions will be attached to Vogel at the end of the season if we make the Playoffs or anything of that nature.

Agreed about the defense. He really needs to start playing defense again, and honestly I don't know why he doesn't do defense. About the free throw attempts: He is a shooter. If I were coach I'd have him coming off of screens and what-not instead of iso-ing him like Obie did. That would suit his strengths better.

pizza guy
02-01-2011, 12:06 PM
I'd be in favor of either Vogel (If he's still consistent and trusted) or Brown to be the head coach. Admittedly though, my emotions will be attached to Vogel at the end of the season if we make the Playoffs or anything of that nature.

Agreed about the defense. He really needs to start playing defense again, and honestly I don't know why he doesn't do defense. About the free throw attempts: He is a shooter. If I were coach I'd have him coming off of screens and what-not instead of iso-ing him like Obie did. That would suit his strengths better.


02-01-2011, 12:28 PM
This doesn't mean his head coaching term is going to be short.

If we win a lot and make the playoffs and win at least one game in the series, then Frank will get the first interview.

Mike Brown will probably be a top guy in the mix too.

02-01-2011, 12:44 PM

True about Danny?
I don't know what you mean by "short".

Most would think that Vogel will be coaching through the end of the season. Is that what you mean by "short"?

As for his mention of Brown, he does nothing more than to state the obvious. So, he has no more information from his New York location than any of the rest of us do here in Indy... and probably less.

As for his opinion of Granger, I would agree that his aggression on both ends of the court has been lacking over the last few weeks.

But last night's game was a nice turnaround from that standpoint... at least on the offensive end of the court. Danny was having difficult with his shot and began going top the rim. Quite frankly, whether his shot is falliong or not, we need that diversity in his game to be utilized every game. And that's what I am waiting to see.... was last night's game an aberration, or is the new Danny?

Maybe the aggession will start for Danny on the offensive end and will hopefully carry over to his defensive game as well. But having Danny driving the ball, along with George, Collison and Price should make for a lot of attacking the rim from our perimeter players and should prove to be a much more enjoyable game to watch.

02-01-2011, 12:50 PM

True about Danny?
We've been saying all that, the 3PA, the lack of defense and the almost disinterest in playing.

However I'm not throwing DG under the bus as the "next man up", I just think his will was broken. I'm hopeful he can regain the passion.

To be honest, any jerky can be fired up against the odds or tough competition. Some people thrive on impossible odds situations. The REAL GRIND is when things go into the weeds and a malaise sets in. Then you've really got to dig deep to maintain a passion.

This is the challenge before Danny now and he's yet to meet it.

I contrast this with Roy, Josh and AJ who have battled hopeless situations the last 2 years but somehow just keep on plugging with real passion. Josh especially had every reason to just say "F this, I've got no shot to get consistent play" but kept coming back with effort.

If Roy can grind through his slump and show the passion he did last night for ANOTHER PLAYER'S effort then Danny should too. Ron, Reggie, etc put up with Danny as a young player full of mistakes, time to own the veteran role. I don't care if he doesn't want to lead, just be a pro in times of trouble.

02-01-2011, 12:50 PM
I haven't looked forward to seeing a Mike Brown press conference/interview and I won't look forward to it anytime soon, whether he's our coach or not. Point being, I have watched Frank Vogel's press conference, pregame interview, and post game interview over and over and over again. This guy is everything we need. Our staff is legit. It's incredible how a slight (or major) shakeup in a 6 man coaching staff can make such a wonderful difference. Our staff now is like our team....

Young guy in Frank leading the way...

Solid, irreplaceable vets in Jay and Dan...

Two young role players getting their feet wet...

I pray this is our staff next year. Maybe throw in a Derrick McKey or something just to spice it up.

Frank Vogel 4 Life

02-01-2011, 01:07 PM
I think the writer was implying that Mike Brown has the inside track, baring a remarkable run by Vogel

02-01-2011, 03:54 PM
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18642#ixzz1CjrcedHS

Brown And The Pacers?

The news that the Indiana Pacers were letting head coach Jim O'Brien go came as absolutely no surprise. In fact, most felt the move was overdue. What caused many fans in Indiana to raise their eyebrows was the decision to replace O'Brien with his assistant, Frank Vogel.

The truth is, an established head coach like, say, Jeff Van Gundy, would be highly unlikely to take a team like Indiana mid-season. Consider that there would be little practice time, and therefore little time to insitute a new system. You basically have enough practice time to make small tweaks to the system that was already in place, and in a situation like that the best option is often one of the coaches who was already involved with the system. Add the uncertainty of the labor negotiations and the fact that a new head coach would inherit a staff of assistants who are already under contract, and it's easy to see why the short-term answer was the one closest at hand.

Make no mistake, however. Vogel is the short-term solution.

Peter Vecsey makes an astute observation today in discussing Indiana's head coaching position going forward, pointing out that former Cleveland Cavaliers head coach Mike Brown was once an assistant under Rick Carlisle in Indiana and remains a favorite of owner Herb Simon. Brown decided to take the season off after the intensity of Cleveland's title chase and LeBron James' exodus, but could very well throw his name back into the ring next season.

After all of that pressure to win a championship, the 2009 Coach Of The Year would likely relish a shot at helping a team complete a rebuilding process that is already well underway.

02-01-2011, 03:57 PM
I think that all of these writers are just assuming that Vogel is a short term fix with no basis other than resume and experience. They're just saying it because they can basically.

They are assuming, and they are making an "***" out of "u" and "me". :laugh:

02-01-2011, 03:59 PM
Yeah, I think we are a wee bit too excited over Frank Vogel. He is saying the right things and he won his debut against one of the worst teams in the league. Let's ease up off the gas pedal here. He is an interim solution, and I think he has a very, very, very slim chance of keeping the job full time. I wouldn't mind Mike Brown, Tyrone Corbin, or Kevin McHale as the coach. I also wouldn't mind it if they kept Vogel on the staff if he does well. I just don't think I'm ready to hand the reigns over to him full-time. Seems like a huge leap of faith to a career long O'Brien assistant.

02-01-2011, 04:04 PM
Although I don't think McHale will be a good coach, but I've been wrong before.

Coaches are leaders. They have to have some sort of personality to be effective, and when I watch McHale on NBATV, he makes me turn the channel. I can't stand to watch/listen to him talk for 30secs, let alone intensely for multiple hours a day.

Maybe he's just uptight because of the camera's but he just seems more like the hardworker type, who does the dirty work because that's the way he knows how to succeed, rather than being the leader who can get guys motivated.

He might be a brilliant basketball mind, but you have to have the personality to translate that mind into action.

02-01-2011, 04:07 PM

Cain in New Zealand:
What can we take away from the Pacers win over the Raptors with new coach?

Luke Byrnes:
A "W" is a "W". That is all. The Raptors are an awful basketball team. Don't put too much stock in it... That being said, Roy Hibbert was a bigger part of the offense than we have seen since the beginning of the season, when the Pacers were winning basketball games. Frank Vogel did a good job of getting Hibbert the ball early and often...

Cain in New Zealand:
Can Paul George be a 20ppg scorer in the NBA?

Luke Byrnes:
I think so. He is a very versatile player with a lot of athleticism. I like Paul George's game a lot and he is already playing at a pretty high level. He's going to be a solid starter in the NBA and has All-Star potential... I really thought the Jazz should have swung for the fences with George at No. 9 in the 2010 NBA Draft.

Ray francis in CT:
Danny Granger is more of a Robin than a Batman..Agree??

Luke Byrnes:
I do,and that is no knock to Danny Granger. He is a really, really good player. Scottie Pippen was a Robin. James Worthy was a Robin. Kobe was early in his career. Magic was early in his career. James Worthy was his entire career (at least when they were winning titles).

Eric P in Naptown:
Ding Dong the witch is DEAD! O'Brien out as Pacer coach, Vogel takes over. For the love of God, what took sooo long man?

Luke Byrnes:
I knew I would hear from you today, Eric. Jim O'Brien is very well respected in basketball circles. I'm not sure he's a great head coach, but he knows the game. If last night is any indication, Vogel intends to get the ball to Hibbert and run the offense through their big man. I like that a lot because Hibbert is really improving as a post scorer and is a solid passing big man. Good things for the Pacers fanbase.

Eric P in Naptown:
Luke, with Paul George showing great promise, she would look to trade Granger for a stud SG or PF? Or keep Granger and build through FA or Draft?

Luke Byrnes:
I would be open to trading Danny Granger if I ran the Pacers. Not that he isn't a very good player, but now there is some nice, young talent in Indy with Collison, George and Hibbert. If you can find the right package in return, you have to pull the trigger on a deal including Granger. I wouldn't rush to trade him, but if the right deal came up, he certainly isn't untouchable at this point.

Eric P in Naptown:
Luke , I am very depressed. KG is one of my on court favorites, however, his comments to players and now kids is downright atrocious! Should I give up supporting him?
Luke Byrnes:
KG isn't an angel. He plays his freaking heart out, but he isn't going to win many congeniality contests. I say love what you love. KG's fire and intensity have always been what appealed to me, not his friendliness. I still love to watch him play.

great to see Pacers getting some much needed pub

02-01-2011, 04:07 PM
We just have to let this play out. If make we get back to .500 or close to it and make the playoffs, then maybe Vogel has a chance to be retained as our new head coach. If not then, we will have a fun summer with all of the coaches available.

02-01-2011, 04:17 PM
I agree but I do think Vogel will have to overachieve to get a legitimate opportunity