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View Full Version : Vogel Ball Begins - Game Thread vs Raptors



Speed
01-31-2011, 06:18 PM
Sorry Game threads aren't usually my deal, but I wanted to get this out there. Rabjohns says this:


Tyler Hansbrough (recovering from pneumonia) to play tonight for Pacers. McRoberts remains starter for now.


http://twitter.com/JeffRabjohns/status/32214186780008448 (http://twitter.com/JeffRabjohns/status/32214186780008448)

Shabazz
01-31-2011, 06:19 PM
Tyler is the starter within a week or the Pacers fire yet another coach for being an idiot.

BringJackBack
01-31-2011, 06:20 PM
Dude, THIS IS THE ****ING NBA, NOT COLLEGE. STOP!

Thank you.

daschysta
01-31-2011, 09:53 PM
Tyler is the starter within a week or the Pacers fire yet another coach for being an idiot.

Josh meshes better with the starters, tyler is best as a sixth man type.

Dr. Awesome
01-31-2011, 09:54 PM
I feel like Roy Hibbert sent a message to Jim O'Brien with this game.

presto123
01-31-2011, 09:56 PM
Posey didn't play 1 minute. I like this coach.:dance:

CT Pacer
01-31-2011, 09:58 PM
Is there a site you guys go to when this one is down to discuss the game?

Speed
01-31-2011, 09:58 PM
In the post game, Tyler said I can now just be me, Frank told him to just be aggressive where Obrien would try to have me do other things...

On the split with Jmac with minutes, its nice to know what to expect now, before we really didn't know what was going on.

I'm paraphrasing, but thats the just of it.

I think Hansbrough is glad for the change.

croz24
01-31-2011, 09:58 PM
wow granger was 3-15 yikes

daschysta
01-31-2011, 09:58 PM
No posey, no solo no problem!. Great seeing paul finishing the game, and really delivering the win with his fourth quarter play. Nice to see Roy getting touches deep again. If we could take care of the dang ball we could have won by 30. I know it was the raptors, but building up some confidence is never a bad thing, and who can complain about tonights rotation?

Speed
01-31-2011, 09:59 PM
Is there a site you guys go to when this one is down to discuss the game?


Great question. I don't know either.

presto123
01-31-2011, 10:01 PM
Yeah seeing lots of Josh and Tyler and no Posey or Solo is fine with me. Just how high is that ceiling for George. He could be scary in the future if he keeps working.

spazzxb
01-31-2011, 10:03 PM
Tyler is the starter within a week or the Pacers fire yet another coach for being an idiot.

There is a problem playing Foster and Josh together. This isn't about who is better, its about what makes the team better. The best chance we have to utilize both of them consistently is Hibbert/Josh and Tyler/Foster. Don't get caught up in who starts.

BringJackBack
01-31-2011, 10:03 PM
Is there a site you guys go to when this one is down to discuss the game?

pacersdigest.net :D

Hicks
01-31-2011, 10:03 PM
Is there a site you guys go to when this one is down to discuss the game?

Yep.

http://www.pacersdigest.net/vb4/forum.php

speakout4
01-31-2011, 10:04 PM
I liked AJ tonight. He looked aggressive and used his athleticism well.

We have b/u guys at the Point and PF positions that don't hurt us at all.

No TJ or posey which was good.

56 rebounds

spazzxb
01-31-2011, 10:05 PM
Posey didn't play 1 minute. I like this coach.:dance:
He didn't play every game before, its nothing special.

Hicks
01-31-2011, 10:06 PM
Anyway, I'm absolutely concerned about all of the turnovers and the sloppiness, but I really liked how Vogel coached this game.

Extended stretches without substitutions, no small ball except for about 11 seconds to end the 2nd quarter, Josh and Tyler at PF, Roy got a lot more looks and was given a lot more patience and it paid off, Paul George got to finish the game because Vogel thought he was playing well, and DC clearly felt free to be himself.

Assuming we show improvement in the TO/slop department, I could really get used to this!

Speed
01-31-2011, 10:06 PM
Really, like 5 things I posted today that I hoped would happen, completely happened today. Nice work coach.

I posted I hoped that Jmac and Hansbrough would split the PF Minutes, done!

I posted I hoped that DC, PG, DG, Jmac, and Hibbert would close, they did.

I posted no Posey, most of us did, came true.

I posted no Solo, check.

Actually even the minutes almost came out for the youngsters, exactly what I had hoped.

Pretty freaking awesome. Not trying to pat myself on the back, just trying to say how pleased I am.

Now a better team beats the Pacers tonight, but thats not the point.

The point is the future core was given a chance and came through, thats how you grow, thats how you get better as a team.

I feel like they made some progress as a team tonight, thats the point!!

Hicks
01-31-2011, 10:06 PM
He didn't play every game before, its nothing special.

Except this time him playing will become the exception, as opposed to him not playing.

PacersHomer
01-31-2011, 10:08 PM
Glad to see George and Hibbert play so well. Gotta win on Wednesday though. Can't lose to the Cavaliers!

ilive4sports
01-31-2011, 10:10 PM
Only saw the second half, saw some good, saw some bad, but overall we gotta be happy we won. Quite frankly those were the games we've been losing all season long where we build up a lead and then blow it, but tonight we didn't.

At points it seemed like everyone just had the green light to shoot whenever. Granger, Hansbrough, George, Dunleavy, all took some questionable shots, but as it got later in the half shot selection drastically improved. Also too many turnovers, just some sloppy play.

But Roy Hibbert just went off for 24 and 11. The Raptors don't have a good front line really, but Roy was efficient and definitely made his presence known. While Granger had a terrible shooting night, he was very active on the boards and set up teammates for good shots, should have had more than 5 assists honestly. Paul George had another good night, Hansbrough brought good energy off the bench, Collison shot well and had 6 assists (too many TO's though).

Ball movement seems so much better with the starters than with the bench. That needs to be worked on. I did like the rotations way better tonight. I liked how Vogel let the guys play through mistakes. And most the time the guys redeemed themselves. Good win tonight, definitely needed it.

Kuq_e_Zi91
01-31-2011, 10:11 PM
In the post game, Tyler said I can now just be me, Frank told him to just be aggressive where Obrien would try to have me do other things...

On the split with Jmac with minutes, its nice to know what to expect now, before we really didn't know what was going on.

I'm paraphrasing, but thats the just of it.

I think Hansbrough is glad for the change.

George also said that before it was like walking around on pins and needles. Now they're a little more at ease.

pacer4ever
01-31-2011, 10:11 PM
I LOVE FRANK VOGEL

NO HOMO

Pacerfan
01-31-2011, 10:22 PM
I felt like the players were almost so excited to play the way they wanted to that they got a little careless with the ball.... but that should be cured within a few games.

Pacemaker
01-31-2011, 10:24 PM
Hopefully pretty soon D.Jones minutes will be Lance's.

spazzxb
01-31-2011, 10:42 PM
Except this time him playing will become the exception, as opposed to him not playing.

Can't conclude that from one game, however I believe the coach has given us that expectation with his comments. Honestly, I don't care wether Posey plays or not, I just don't like the repetitive unoriginal and numerous running joke posts bashing him daily that polluted the message board. JOB is gone so things should improve but the reference reminded me how much they annoyed me. They should have been complaining about an overuse of small ball, but instead people chose to direct the blame at an individual player.

graphic-er
01-31-2011, 10:47 PM
Just got back from the game, the roads are not actually as bad as perceived so far.
Man it feels good to be a Pacer fan again. These guys played really well for the most part, still almost gave up a 20 pt. lead at one point. But we did not wilt in the 4th like so many times before. Hibbert is slowly showing me that he is not a sissy any longer too.

Just got to get those turnovers under control and it seemed like tonight we had alot of butter fingers, everyone had them infact. Butter fingers leads to sloppy play. But I'm encouraged, can't wait to watch the post game show on the replay.

Granger needs to get his drives under control, but for the most part he did not take stupid shots.

pacer4ever
01-31-2011, 10:48 PM
I feel like Roy Hibbert sent a message to Jim O'Brien with this game.

Vogel went to Hibbert early and often oppstie of JOB the last 2 months. By the end of the game Roy was gased it look liked he ask 2 come out lol. He hasnt played that many minutes in months.

Day-V
01-31-2011, 10:49 PM
I talked to Tyler right before the game and asked how he was feeling. He kinda shook his hand and said "Ehh, alright". 14 points, 6 boards.



Imagine what he will do at 100%.

xIndyFan
01-31-2011, 10:58 PM
glad to see tyler trying to pass. too bad he still isn't very good at it. but keep trying young fella and no more astrological nicknames. :laugh:

pwee31
01-31-2011, 11:03 PM
glad to see tyler trying to pass. too bad he still isn't very good at it. but keep trying young fella and no more astrological nicknames. :laugh:

Tyler would be a better passer if he reacted on instinct. There are times where he wants to pass, and if he would just make an aggressive pass it would likely be a successful one, but he always hesitates, and that usually gets him in trouble

croz24
01-31-2011, 11:07 PM
watching this game for a second time and granger STILL can't hit a shot

pwee31
01-31-2011, 11:08 PM
watching this game for a second time and granger STILL can't hit a shot

Granger usually plays well in Cleveland, let's hope this trend continues, b/c I DO NOT want to be the team the Cavs snap their 20-21 game losing streak against.

xIndyFan
01-31-2011, 11:21 PM
Tyler would be a better passer if he reacted on instinct. There are times where he wants to pass, and if he would just make an aggressive pass it would likely be a successful one, but he always hesitates, and that usually gets him in trouble

i don't mean this meanly, but whenever tyler starts to think, he stops to think and bad things happen. hopefully the game will slow down for him at some point. and he can just play.

croz24
01-31-2011, 11:35 PM
man a lot of these turnovers are simply these guys not having the playing time with one another to develop that chemistry. it's almost the equivalent of peyton manning going from throwing to dallas clark and austin collie to blair white and brandon james resulting in a stretch of 11 ints in 3 games. and i'm speaking more towards the young guys like collison, hibbert, mcroberts, george, hansbrough, price than anyone else.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 11:43 PM
I gotta tell ya, I just get this vibe from Vogel. Dude strikes me as an NBA coach. And only 37...I dunno...I like him a lot right now.

He's got a very calm, cool confidence to him on the sideline.

BringJackBack
01-31-2011, 11:47 PM
Yeah, I'm not going to say it now, but if this team is playing the same way and with the same amount of poise over the next 15 games or so, than I'm going to have to say that he's a keeper.

That still remains to be seen, but something to look forward to nonetheless.

dgranger17
02-01-2011, 12:38 AM
There is a problem playing Foster and Josh together. This isn't about who is better, its about what makes the team better. The best chance we have to utilize both of them consistently is Hibbert/Josh and Tyler/Foster. Don't get caught up in who starts.

Coach touched on this during his 1st pregame interview. He wants to have 1 low post scorer on the court at all times so obviously starting Tyler and Roy with Josh and Jeff in the 2nd unit wouldn't be a great idea in his mind. I was amazed how we ran with Price, George, Dahntay, Tyler, and Jeff (5 non-starters) and played great. Granted, it was the Toronto Raptors, but still a great performance from our 2nd unit. When 3 of our second 5 is part of our "core" group of players, that's an extremely exciting future. Thanks Larry.

With Lance and Rush still in the fold, I'm curious to see how Coach's rotations work out in the near future.

Winning out baby

joeyd
02-01-2011, 12:57 AM
Yeah, I'm not going to say it now, but if this team is playing the same way and with the same amount of poise over the next 15 games or so, than I'm going to have to say that he's a keeper.

I have to admit that I was leaning this way too, but then I realized it's the Raptors and we let even these guys get back in the game. So I think even more poise will equate to less turnovers, which has to happen if we intend to compete against better teams.

On the other hand, I'm actually glad that we didn't win by 20+ points. That would have set the bar very high in many people's minds, which is sort of unfair to Vogel.

ksuttonjr76
02-01-2011, 01:48 AM
I didn't think too much about the turnovers, since they didn't have a real practice to try any new plays.

pacer4ever
02-01-2011, 01:52 AM
I didn't think too much about the turnovers, since they didn't have a real practice to try any new plays.

To me it just looked like they were forcing 2 much in the PnR /PnR they were a little 2 unselfish

Ransom
02-01-2011, 02:16 AM
The web commenters on ESPN.com are complaining about Collision shooting that last three. A few are trying to make is a "class" thing, but most are admitting they're mad because they bet on Toronto +8.5.

pacer4ever
02-01-2011, 02:48 AM
The web commenters on ESPN.com are complaining about Collision shooting that last three. A few are trying to make is a "class" thing, but most are admitting they're mad because they bet on Toronto +8.5.

One of the area 55 ers were so mad that we gave up that lay up he was betting on the pacers. Then Dc2 making that 3 made his day lol covered the spread.

Pacerfan
02-01-2011, 02:52 AM
Pacers are now 1 game out of the playoffs with Milwaukee, Charlotte, and Philly losing tonight :)

Drewtone
02-01-2011, 09:42 AM
The web commenters on ESPN.com are complaining about Collision shooting that last three. A few are trying to make is a "class" thing, but most are admitting they're mad because they bet on Toronto +8.5.

You know, the (typically lousy) commentators on the Toronto feed were making a huge deal of this, though I didn't see the shot due to their director feeling a panning of both coaches made for better tv. However, broadcast clock was showing at least .5 second difference, so I thought he had to at least put up a shot to end the game. They went on and on about this. Whatever.

BillS
02-01-2011, 10:19 AM
You know, the (typically lousy) commentators on the Toronto feed were making a huge deal of this, though I didn't see the shot due to their director feeling a panning of both coaches made for better tv. However, broadcast clock was showing at least .5 second difference, so I thought he had to at least put up a shot to end the game. They went on and on about this. Whatever.

Yeah, I thought he put it up to try to keep from having a stopped clock for a 24-second violation and was as surprised as everyone else when it went in.

Hicks
02-01-2011, 11:36 AM
I didn't think too much about the turnovers, since they didn't have a real practice to try any new plays.

They didn't run any new plays, said Frank Vogel.

Trophy
02-01-2011, 11:41 AM
Dude, THIS IS THE ****ING NBA, NOT COLLEGE. STOP!

Thank you.

Yeah really, I already get enough of this UNC crap daily.

Hicks
02-01-2011, 11:45 AM
I always thought the unwritten 'code' was to not put a shot up after the shot clock is turned off.

Given that the shot clock had NOT been turned off, I don't have a problem with it.

I understand why it looked worse than it was because the shot beat BOTH buzzers, but I don't think DC shoots that without a shot clock.

Trophy
02-01-2011, 11:50 AM
I always thought the unwritten 'code' was to not put a shot up after the shot clock is turned off.

Given that the shot clock had NOT been turned off, I don't have a problem with it.

I understand why it looked worse than it was because the shot beat BOTH buzzers, but I don't think DC shoots that without a shot clock.

I didn't see anything wrong with it.

There was still maybe .5 left on the clock so he just shot it for the hell of it.

Gave us an 11 point win rather than 8 point win.

CableKC
02-01-2011, 11:55 AM
Hopefully pretty soon D.Jones minutes will be Lance's.
I'm guessing that Inferno's minutes will go to BRush. My preference ( in terms of lineup and balance ) for the lineup:

1st Unit:

DC / BRush / Granger / McBob / Hibbert

2nd Unit:

AJ / PG / Dunleavy / Hansbrough / Foster

Part of the problem with the 2nd Unit that I saw yesterday was that there wasn't a scoring threat, so I'd prefer to get a Player like Dunleavy get the offense flowing better.

I really like that the rotations were set....there may have been a 2-3 minute gap where there was a mix...but for longer stretches of the game....they played with Players that they are more familiar with.

pacer4ever
02-01-2011, 12:09 PM
They didn't run any new plays, said Frank Vogel.

But they were running plays that they havent ran in a while and they were feeding Roy a lot more.

Kegboy
02-01-2011, 01:52 PM
In regards to the last shot, Quinn Buckner was very unhappy. "You just don't do that."

Sookie
02-01-2011, 01:53 PM
I'm guessing that Inferno's minutes will go to BRush. My preference ( in terms of lineup and balance ) for the lineup:

1st Unit:

DC / BRush / Granger / McBob / Hibbert

2nd Unit:

AJ / PG / Dunleavy / Hansbrough / Foster

Part of the problem with the 2nd Unit that I saw yesterday was that there wasn't a scoring threat, so I'd prefer to get a Player like Dunleavy get the offense flowing better.

I really like that the rotations were set....there may have been a 2-3 minute gap where there was a mix...but for longer stretches of the game....they played with Players that they are more familiar with.

I think the bigger issue was that they were running the "PG makes stuff up" offense with that group.

Price is going to play the PnR in that situation. With Hansbrough it works. With Foster, it technically works, but it ends up with a shot for Foster.

I think they need to actually run an offense. AJ doesn't want to..and most likely won't..dribble the ball around until he finds something to do with it. He's going to do something standard.


I like the idea of swapping Dun and Paul. I like the energy Paul brings to the second unit, but I think Dun will bring player movement and scoring. Another difference with Price, which I think will be noticed, is that my guess is he'll take less shots. That's something that probably JOB did benifit him with, because he was never, IMO, aggressive enough with his shot at Uconn. (He often wouldn't even try to score unless he no one else was) Maybe he changed his mindset coming off the bench, we'll see. But it wouldn't shock me if his shots decrease.

Dun would bring reliability, player movement....I also think PG would play really well next to Darren..both want to push the ball.

xBulletproof
02-01-2011, 02:05 PM
In regards to the last shot, Quinn Buckner was very unhappy. "You just don't do that."

..... so you just take the 24 second violation?

I've never seen a team do that in all my years of watching basketball. At any level.

Sookie
02-01-2011, 02:11 PM
..... so you just take the 24 second violation?

I've never seen a team do that in all my years of watching basketball. At any level.

I've seen it, but I don't have a problem with a team taking a shot if the shot clock isn't off. Quinn probably thought it was..

joeyd
02-01-2011, 02:26 PM
In regards to the last shot, Quinn Buckner was very unhappy. "You just don't do that."

You also don't call Mike Dunleavy "Mun Dunleavy" during what will probably be your biggest call of the season!

Ransom
02-01-2011, 02:58 PM
For reference, just because it's an excuse to post it:

Reggie Miller at the end of game 6 in 94 conf semis against Hawks (4:50 mark)

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0kPi54gLNfE" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>