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Trophy
01-30-2011, 02:43 PM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/live_stream_110131.html

Aw Heck
01-30-2011, 03:32 PM
The stream is up now. Nothing's going on though. Just setup.

One mic and one chair. I guess Larry's going solo on this one. I thought maybe Morway or Simon would show up as well.

EDIT: down again, haha. Oh well.

SMosley21
01-30-2011, 03:38 PM
I hope it is just Bird by himself. That would look more credible and like it was his decision and that he didn't need help. Makes Bird look more competent.

riverside
01-30-2011, 03:39 PM
anyone know if this will be on good old fashion television?

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 03:42 PM
anyone know if this will be on good old fashion television?

doubt it

Trophy
01-30-2011, 03:43 PM
I hope it is just Bird by himself. That would look more credible and like it was his decision and that he didn't need help. Makes Bird look more competent.

I hope Frank is there.

I'm interested to hear what he has to say.

I Love P
01-30-2011, 03:43 PM
I bet WTHR and such will show it. Suck or not...it's still big news.

PaceBalls
01-30-2011, 03:50 PM
lmao @ the music on the stream..

That is so awesome

PaceBalls
01-30-2011, 03:51 PM
ok, who is that song by?

Trophy
01-30-2011, 03:52 PM
Well it looks like it's just going to be Bird.

Only 1 seat is centered.

SMosley21
01-30-2011, 03:53 PM
I hope Frank is there.

I'm interested to hear what he has to say.

I'm just mean in regards to Morway or Simon being there. I think it's safe to assume that Vogel would have to be there. You can't just announce that you fired the coach and not introduce fans to the guy who's taking over for the rest of the season.

PaceBalls
01-30-2011, 03:53 PM
ok they are playing friend of the devil now lol...
I love the grateful dead.
awesome.

kester99
01-30-2011, 03:53 PM
That's Friend of the Devil, by Grateful Dead.

Don't know about that other one.

Trophy
01-30-2011, 03:54 PM
This pre-show is pretty funny.

Young
01-30-2011, 03:56 PM
Maybe there is one chair because Bird is taking over for the rest of the season? Doubt it though.

Doddage
01-30-2011, 03:56 PM
lol, Hotel California playing

BringJackBack
01-30-2011, 03:57 PM
Kravitz lol.

PacerPenguins
01-30-2011, 03:58 PM
ughh hurry up i cant wait until bird says "Jim go **** Yourself!"

Trophy
01-30-2011, 03:58 PM
We have 2 minutes!

brewpopps
01-30-2011, 03:58 PM
What I'm most interested in is the timing of this move. I mean, this team was actually competitive the last two games and it would have been more sensible had they done it after the West Coast disaster.
Maybe it had something to do with the questionable rotations of last night, specifically seeing McRoberts do well the first three quarters and sit for most of the fourth? O'Brien doing his usual thing during his tenure.

Sandman21
01-30-2011, 03:59 PM
HALLEUJAH!!!

hoosierguy
01-30-2011, 03:59 PM
lmao @ the music on the stream..

That is so awesome

Welcome to the Hotel California!!!:laugh:

Daniel33
01-30-2011, 04:01 PM
Frank yay!

Basketball Fan
01-30-2011, 04:03 PM
I bet WTHR and such will show it. Suck or not...it's still big news.

Yep its on right now on WTHR

flox
01-30-2011, 04:04 PM
I like hearing the insight of Bird on this. I'm glad to hear that our goal is still make the playoffs.

PaceBalls
01-30-2011, 04:04 PM
Larry: "I'd like to see Lance play"

Trophy
01-30-2011, 04:04 PM
I'm sure Bird will be returning.

He's very excited for what the future has in stock for us.

Daniel33
01-30-2011, 04:04 PM
lance nad paul getting mins :)
Bird extent your contract man^^

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 04:04 PM
"I want to see lance play"

and Paul 2 play more

duke dynamite
01-30-2011, 04:04 PM
Seth is in all the JOB videos they keep showing.

IndySDExport
01-30-2011, 04:04 PM
playing time for PG!!!!!

PacerPenguins
01-30-2011, 04:04 PM
bash obie!!! good Larry wants Paul and Hans to play!

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 04:05 PM
"I was frusturated Tyler wasnt getting mins"

ZepZach
01-30-2011, 04:05 PM
More Lance, more Paul George, more Tyler! Yahoo!
:dance: :dance:

Trophy
01-30-2011, 04:05 PM
Bird was frustrated with JOB.

Sandman21
01-30-2011, 04:06 PM
"I was frusturated Tyler wasnt getting mins"

This just gave credence to the theory that Bird forced him to play Tyler.

flox
01-30-2011, 04:06 PM
Seems Bird didn't like that Hans wasn't seeing enough time. Hans is definitely a Bird type of player.

croz24
01-30-2011, 04:06 PM
not a big fan of hiring the interim head coach as head coach. rarely works out for the best.

PacerPenguins
01-30-2011, 04:06 PM
HAHA!! he called Larry Jim!! HAHA!

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 04:07 PM
Great question wells

PacerPenguins
01-30-2011, 04:07 PM
"Jimmy does things that Jimmy does"

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 04:08 PM
"I wouldnt of done that" on calling out young players

BlueNGold
01-30-2011, 04:08 PM
Bird makes sense. I'm thankful the frustration, at least with the methods, is over.

PacerPenguins
01-30-2011, 04:10 PM
Danny u got what! NOW KICK SOME ***!

Trophy
01-30-2011, 04:10 PM
It sounds like it's up to Simon if he wants Bird back and I think Simon will want him back.

flox
01-30-2011, 04:11 PM
Larry, we need to you make a decision. It isn't good for the franchise to not know who will be in charge next year. I'm not too happy about that.

SMosley21
01-30-2011, 04:11 PM
I'm loving Larry's answers.

vnzla81
01-30-2011, 04:11 PM
he wants to see Lance :dance:

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 04:11 PM
"I would like Lance to get in there"

Sookie
01-30-2011, 04:13 PM
"I would like Lance to get in there"

That goes against the "Not playing Lance until after the court appearance" theory.

gosh vogel looks young..

PacerPenguins
01-30-2011, 04:13 PM
BASH ON WELLS LARRY!

TMJ31
01-30-2011, 04:13 PM
Alrighty Frank, time to shine.

flox
01-30-2011, 04:14 PM
Hmm, it seems like Lance is a Bird play too. Bird seems to really want Lance to play. It's strange to think that both Hans and Lance are both Bird players.

I'm happy to hear that Bird is looking to trade our expiring contracts. I think this team would benefit from locking in to it before the new CBA. I fear our cap space won't mean a lot under it.

ilive4sports
01-30-2011, 04:14 PM
Bird said pretty much what I wanted to hear.

PacerPenguins
01-30-2011, 04:14 PM
Bird said pretty much what I wanted to hear.

me 2

BringJackBack
01-30-2011, 04:15 PM
Damn Frank sounds confident.

Bball
01-30-2011, 04:15 PM
I can't watch so is-
A: Bird saying basically that he gave O'Brien plenty rope and he hanged himself with it? (Bird has been frustrated too?)
B: Bird sending signals to Vogel about what is expected of him as far as who sees court time, style of play, or whatever?

Trophy
01-30-2011, 04:15 PM
I love what Bird said and I have a lot of confidence in us being successful.

Frank sounds every confident too and I think he'll do a decent job.

ZepZach
01-30-2011, 04:15 PM
Vogel's mentor is O'Brien, oh no!!!! :p

TMJ31
01-30-2011, 04:15 PM
He seems like a confident, well spoken guy. He has a lot of trust in his assistants, which bodes well I think.

I like his attitude.

Sandman21
01-30-2011, 04:15 PM
Five minutes into Vogel's introduction to the press and there's already a whole new feeling in the building....

ilive4sports
01-30-2011, 04:16 PM
Frank making some nice statements right here. I like that.

flox
01-30-2011, 04:17 PM
I wonder if he let Conner go to give Vogel a chance over Conner.

PacerPenguins
01-30-2011, 04:17 PM
Damn Frank sounds confident.

thats a great thing!! Im so exciited i brought tickets for tomorrows game!

Vogul wants to make changes!!

1. No Posey
2. No Ford
3. Young guys getting minutes

VOGULS THINKING PLAYOFFS

BPump33
01-30-2011, 04:17 PM
Wow, if he's not all talk then I love this guy.

TMJ31
01-30-2011, 04:18 PM
Well I definitely think the players are going to respond to Frank's personality a lot more than Jim's. He seems to be no nonsense, but in a caring and helpful way... Not a "bash my players" kinda way (*cough*)

Trophy
01-30-2011, 04:19 PM
Frank sounds to be the complete opposite of Jim.

He sounds like he wants to teach these guys like he's done already.

ilive4sports
01-30-2011, 04:19 PM
Ha didn't know he went to Juniata, got some friends there now

BornReady
01-30-2011, 04:20 PM
lets go Roy resurrection!

Lord Helmet
01-30-2011, 04:21 PM
I'm excited again.

IS IT MONDAY YET?

Rogco
01-30-2011, 04:21 PM
Really enjoying this conference and liking what I'm hearing! Ah, rejuvinated interest.

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 04:21 PM
"the sub patterns can change right away other things may take longer like schmes"

flox
01-30-2011, 04:21 PM
I can't watch so is-
A: Bird saying basically that he gave O'Brien plenty rope and he hanged himself with it? (Bird has been frustrated too?)
B: Bird sending signals to Vogel about what is expected of him as far as who sees court time, style of play, or whatever?

A: Bird lets coaches coach. With that said, he didn't come out and bash O'Brien on anything other than being frustrated with not playing Hansborough, for taking some joy out of Hibbert not playing, for feeling that the team is underachieving. Depending on how you took the tone, he might have been upset at the style or not been upset. But I feel like the three things I identified were the worst. He basically knew he had to fire O'Brien when the Orlando game was, in his words, "over within 3 minutes"

He also thought that there could be a problem with upper management not getting the players that fit Jim, or something.

B: He said that he hopes that he'll see Lance, Paul, and Hans play more. He had a few conversations with Vogel, they are on the same page. He said he doesn't know if the style of play will change, there might not be enough time to play on the practice floor to change too much. I'm not sure if that means he wants to style to change, or not.


As a side note, Vogel seems committed to make Hibbert both a high and low post player. I approve.

Since86
01-30-2011, 04:21 PM
I like his answer about experience. Nicely said.

PacerPenguins
01-30-2011, 04:21 PM
I'm excited again.

IS IT MONDAY YET?

everyone needs to buy tickets 4 tomorrows game to show support for him

Midcoasted
01-30-2011, 04:22 PM
:happydanc:dance::buddies:

I'm so glad JOB is gone. I really enjoyed him as a coach though, it kept things interesting at least when our franchise was in the gutter. It was a roller coaster ride for sure!!!

JOB I love you as a person and a basketball mind and really dislike you as a coach. This is the brightest day in our franchise since we traded Murphy for Collison, and outside of of that, maybe four years.

Again :dance::dance::happydanc:happydanc

BPump33
01-30-2011, 04:22 PM
Off I go to renew my tickets....

Edit: To be fair, I was renewing anyway...

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 04:22 PM
He is a players coach

flox
01-30-2011, 04:23 PM
Well that was a good feeling. I'm a little worried that he didn't really go indepth on his changes, but I'm excited to see what will change on the court.

Here's to hoping I can identify it.

flox
01-30-2011, 04:23 PM
Well that was a good feeling. I'm a little worried that he didn't really go indepth on his changes, but I'm excited to see what will change on the court.

Here's to hoping I can identify it.

hoosierguy
01-30-2011, 04:24 PM
Vogel certainly does not lack confidence. I hope the team's play justifies that confidence.

ilive4sports
01-30-2011, 04:24 PM
Vogel is certainly confident, seems like he will get to the players better than JOB did. He is gonna hold them accountable, maybe we will see some more consistency out of the team.

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 04:24 PM
That goes against the "Not playing Lance until after the court appearance" theory.

gosh vogel looks young..

Vogel is the new youngest coach in the nba

Trophy
01-30-2011, 04:24 PM
That was excellent and I'm really excited for what Frank will bring as the head coach.

He sounds like he's going to go with the young core guys and will bench those who don't deserve to play (Posey).

ilive4sports
01-30-2011, 04:27 PM
Well that was a good feeling. I'm a little worried that he didn't really go indepth on his changes, but I'm excited to see what will change on the court.

Here's to hoping I can identify it.

I dont think he knows all the changes yet, or he wants to talk over them more with Larry and other assistants.

jcouts
01-30-2011, 04:27 PM
I think the #1 thing that I liked the most about what Vogel said in regards to Roy is that he wants to give Roy opportunities outside of just being a post scorer (which I took as high or low post) and to "get him some easy looks".

I can't remember many times at all over the past couple of years, except in plays that kind of broke down and someone found Roy out of a fluke under the basket in a crowd, where Roy caught the ball somewhere near the basket for an easy score and didn't have to create something for himself. Really, outside of Mike, I can't really remember much of anyone on the squad catching the ball very often anywhere near the basket for a layup or dunk on any sort of regular consistency...but in particular, I can't think of many instances of that for Roy. I think he had a lot of pressure on him to create...possibly more than he's ready for at this point in his career. Settling for the 17 foot jumpers was an easy way out of that.

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 04:28 PM
Well that was a good feeling. I'm a little worried that he didn't really go indepth on his changes, but I'm excited to see what will change on the court.

Here's to hoping I can identify it.

How can u go i dept he just got the job a few hours ago. He doesnt have pratice time the schme changes will take awhile to go into effect the sub patterns should be better by 2mrw

graphic-er
01-30-2011, 04:28 PM
Oh My Gosh I just got the text message, I can't believe I missed the presser! It must have been LEGENDARY!

Trophy
01-30-2011, 04:29 PM
Oh My Gosh I just got the text message, I can't believe I missed the presser! It must have been LEGENDARY!

It was everything we all wanted to hear.

Daniel33
01-30-2011, 04:30 PM
I hope yu guys already know Vogel means bird in german.

presto123
01-30-2011, 04:30 PM
He surprised me. Well spoken and confident. I feel a little better about him taking over now. Seems like he doesn't agree with everything JOB did.

ndcoltsnpacers
01-30-2011, 04:30 PM
Oh My Gosh I just got the text message, I can't believe I missed the presser! It must have been LEGENDARY!

Yeah I just got that text, too. A little late, but still my favorite text of the year so far.

Dr. Awesome
01-30-2011, 04:31 PM
It sounds like he will change the substitution patters right away and would like to eventually change the offense. Oh and he said "Sometimes I feel that the young guys will give you the best chance to win..." or something along those lines.

I love this guy.

jcouts
01-30-2011, 04:32 PM
Well that was a good feeling. I'm a little worried that he didn't really go indepth on his changes, but I'm excited to see what will change on the court.

Here's to hoping I can identify it.

As curious as I am to see what he has up his sleeve, I agree with his decision to keep it away from the public.

These days, scouts in the NBA are so good that within a few games, many opponents can have opposing teams' new players, new schemes or other new methods figured out.

In my opinion, a 3-5 game turnaround for this team right now, based on a few surprises that scouts can't prepare their teams for could possibly mean the difference between this team making and not making the playoffs.

31andonly
01-30-2011, 04:32 PM
What stood out most IMO was the question whether Vogels is kind of stuck in the middle between making the playoffs or playing the young guys.

His answer was something like:

Actually I think the young guys are the ones that can take us to the playoffs!

Peck
01-30-2011, 04:33 PM
I'll try my best to overlook the fact that he was given a lob of a softball of a question basically asking him outside of O'Brien who he drew coaching inspiration from. He said Rick Patino, swing and a miss.

Other than that, all good.

Of course he is not going to tell us the changes or rotations he is going to use. The guy hasn't even had much of a chance to get used to the thought yet.

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 04:33 PM
I hope yu guys already know Vogel means bird in german.

I was thinking this too :p

flox
01-30-2011, 04:34 PM
I dont think he knows all the changes yet, or he wants to talk over them more with Larry and other assistants.

I get the feeling this is Vogel's show. From the way he raved about Pitino, I think we're going to see more out of Pitino's system and less around Jim's. I'm not sure if thats a good thing, but still I would have at least liked to get a hint as to what to look for in terms of what we are doing on the floor. But yes, I do think it may be to early.


I think the #1 thing that I liked the most about what Vogel said in regards to Roy is that he wants to give Roy opportunities outside of just being a post scorer (which I took as high or low post) and to "get him some easy looks".

I can't remember many times at all over the past couple of years, except in plays that kind of broke down and someone found Roy out of a fluke under the basket in a crowd, where Roy caught the ball somewhere near the basket for an easy score and didn't have to create something for himself. Really, outside of Mike, I can't really remember much of anyone on the squad catching the ball very often anywhere near the basket for a layup or dunk on any sort of regular consistency...but in particular, I can't think of many instances of that for Roy. I think he had a lot of pressure on him to create...possibly more than he's ready for at this point in his career. Settling for the 17 foot jumpers was an easy way out of that.

I agree here. I think this offense was designed around Danny and Hibbert, and Hibbert just couldn't take it. The amount of pressure put on Hibbert this season was immense. I wasn't too happy that we were going to revolve around Hibbert, but it seems that Vogel is committed to making Hibbert play both High/Low, which is going to be necessary if Hibbert is here for the long term.


How can u go i dept he just got the job a few hours ago. He doesnt have pratice time the schme changes will take awhile to go into effect the sub patterns should be better by 2mrw

I just feel like if I were an assistant who was coach for a coach who was under fire, I would spend some time thinking about what I would do if I were to be called up to replace him. That's all.

It could be flawed logic, but it's what I think is reasonable.

31andonly
01-30-2011, 04:35 PM
I was thinking this too :p

Frank Vogel is a really funny name (in German).

Add the fact that he was hired by Mr. Bird... ;)

Trophy
01-30-2011, 04:36 PM
I honestly think he's going to be a really good coach and one that will make this team better.

I think he'll be interviewed at the end of the season and will have a good chance to be our permanent head coach, but for now, like he said, we need to stay tuned.

Trophy
01-30-2011, 04:37 PM
Now MG can announce our head coach with confidence.

ilive4sports
01-30-2011, 04:37 PM
I hope yu guys already know Vogel means bird in german.

That is hilarious. And true.

Hicks
01-30-2011, 04:39 PM
thats a great thing!! Im so exciited i brought tickets for tomorrows game!

Vogul wants to make changes!!

1. No Posey
2. No Ford
3. Young guys getting minutes

VOGULS THINKING PLAYOFFS

So there's no misunderstanding with those who couldn't watch the press conference, Frank DID NOT say "No Posey, No Ford".

flox
01-30-2011, 04:40 PM
I'll try my best to overlook the fact that he was given a lob of a softball of a question basically asking him outside of O'Brien who he drew coaching inspiration from. He said Rick Patino, swing and a miss.


This is something to keep an eye on on the rest of the season. To me, that sets up a warning flag.

Hoop
01-30-2011, 04:43 PM
Very impressed with Vogel's press conference.

I wish him the best, but the only way he's back beyond interim coach is if we, play extremely well the rest of the season, make the playoffs, give the team we play a scare. Then I'm still not sure if he'll be a legit candidate for the permanent job.

Hicks
01-30-2011, 04:44 PM
I hope yu guys already know Vogel means bird in german.

I thought you were joking until I looked it up. That's awesome! :chuckle:

Trophy
01-30-2011, 04:49 PM
I think we're going to see an attendance increase and the Pacers will play harder and keep games a lot closer and hopefully win most of them.

Just the overall interest and excitement in the Pacers is going to increase.

Something we haven't seen here in a long time.

Pacersalltheway10
01-30-2011, 04:49 PM
Larry, we need to you make a decision. It isn't good for the franchise to not know who will be in charge next year. I'm not too happy about that.

Can't we not interview any other coaches from other teams in the middle of the season?

avoidingtheclowns
01-30-2011, 04:50 PM
This is something to keep an eye on on the rest of the season. To me, that sets up a warning flag.

Vogel was a student manager at UK and then video coordinator with the Celtics (both as a result of Rick Pitino). Vogel has only ever been an assistant with Jim O'Brien. I'm not sure what exactly you expected him to say.

For a guy that is as green as Vogel, these types of press conferences are like Oscar acceptance speeches: you just try to get through it without forgetting to thank the people that helped you get there.

presto123
01-30-2011, 04:51 PM
Sounds like if we make the playoffs and are competitive the job may be Vogels.(at least Larry said first interview) That should be motivation right there to get this team moving in the right direction.

flox
01-30-2011, 04:57 PM
Can't we not interview any other coaches from other teams in the middle of the season?

I'm talking about Larry returning. Sorry, should have made that clear.


Vogel was a student manager at UK and then video coordinator with the Celtics (both as a result of Rick Pitino). Vogel has only ever been an assistant with Jim O'Brien. I'm not sure what exactly what you expected him to say.

For a guy that is as green as Vogel, these types of press conferences are like Oscar acceptance speeches: you just try to get through it without forgetting to thank the people that helped you get there.

It's just...as an advance scout, I was hoping he would have also liked stuff that other coaches were running.

Although you are right about the thanking part. It does make sense.

Kegboy
01-30-2011, 04:57 PM
I'll try my best to overlook the fact that he was given a lob of a softball of a question basically asking him outside of O'Brien who he drew coaching inspiration from. He said Rick Patino, swing and a miss.

The problem is, that's really all he has. He scouted for Washington and the Lakers, but you're not around the coach much then.

I do think he's got a better attitude and hopefully he'll be more logical with his substitutions, but I kinda doubt we'll see much change as far as scheme or philosophy. Larry tried to cushion that talking about no practice time, but I'm afraid it's more likely he's a chip off the old block.

Daniel33
01-30-2011, 05:00 PM
Anyone else really happy right now, and not scared of nightmares about the Pacers when going to sleep?
If not at least I am.
I love Vogels attitude so far at least in the presser, I just hope he has a good feel for the young guys if so the veterans will adjust im really sure about this if not he'll ask his buddy Bird to trade them lol.
Our coach and president can fly so can our team.
Go Pacers!

Justin Tyme
01-30-2011, 05:00 PM
Vogel is the new youngest coach in the nba


Is Vogel just the coach to finish out the season?

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 05:02 PM
Is Vogel just the coach to finish out the season?

most likely. If he does well he will get the first interview to be the head coach going forward right now he is just the interm

Larry Staverman
01-30-2011, 05:03 PM
So there's no misunderstanding with those who couldn't watch the press conference, Frank DID NOT say "No Posey, No Ford".

That's what people were hoping to hear

If I were giving advice to Posey and Ford I would suggest they hit the 40 minute cleaners before tomorrow nights game

pathil275
01-30-2011, 05:04 PM
I liked Vogel's press conference and him handling the questions.

In my opinion it is the right thing to do to promote the lead assistant in this situation. JOB is gone, so this is a statement to the players who will be hold accountable from now on. Will they respond? From all I've heard, they have a good relationship with Vogel and they might get along with his calm, positive yet demanding personality. Now it's the time for the Dunleavys, Fosters, Fords, etc on their expiring contracts to step up their game. Now it is time for Granger to show the FO that he is the franchise player we thought he might be. Now it is the time for Rush and Hibbert to prove that they are starters in this league. Now it is a good time for Lance, Hansbrough, AJ, and PG to seize the chance they get.

To hire an external candidate for 30-some games doesn't make a lot of sense. The schedule is so tight, the coach couldn't run his schemes well and worst-case would be that he is burned after his first 3 months with this franchise.

So, good luck to you Frank Vogel (yes, that is really German..probably the most German name I've ever come across in my life). Everybody is kept under observation. If it doesn't pan out, we'll see a whole new coaching staff, new head coach, no Dunleavy/Ford, maybe even a new GM.

Looking forward to the next game!

Sookie
01-30-2011, 05:05 PM
He specifically mentioned substitution patterns as something he wanted to change. And he mentioned that playing the younger guys doesn't always equal losing.

Trophy
01-30-2011, 05:06 PM
Is it tomorrow yet?

Psyren
01-30-2011, 05:06 PM
Already got my tickets for tomorrow night's game!

Thank you Larry for giving me a reason to believe. If we don't have that much success, so be it. But for the first time in a long time, I have a reason to believe in Blue and Gold!!!

Looking forward to seeing the atmosphere at Conseco tomorrow night!

Best of luck Frank, and Go Pacers!!!!

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 05:06 PM
:)
He specifically mentioned substitution patterns as something he wanted to change. And he mentioned that playing the younger guys doesn't always equal losing.

yepp :)

colts19
01-30-2011, 05:14 PM
I will feel real happy if I see Posey and Ford in a suit tommorrow. Until that happens i'm not going to get to giddy. But if it does happen. :dance::dance::dance:

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 05:16 PM
Frank Vogel is a really funny name (in German).

Add the fact that he was hired by Mr. Bird... ;)

Could it be fate??

Sandman21
01-30-2011, 05:17 PM
So there's no misunderstanding with those who couldn't watch the press conference, Frank DID NOT say "No Posey, No Ford".

He didn't say it outright, but thats the feeling I was getting from him.....

smj887
01-30-2011, 05:24 PM
Sitting in the front row of section 11 tomorrow. When I bought the tickets I was just excited to be sitting so close. Now I'm excited to see what this new guy does. I'm not expecting anything huge but some normal rotations wil be a much welcome change. I liked Vogel's attitude in the presser a lot. He seemed truly confident, like it wasn't just coach-speak.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Nature boii
01-30-2011, 05:24 PM
Thank you Lord for answering the cry of so many fans around the world......because of this good news today after reading the posts for years i have finally join this board......

wintermute
01-30-2011, 05:27 PM
Some thoughts:

Bird made it clear that he'd like to see the young players play. If Vogel follows that mandate (and presumably he would since his boss just got sacked because of it), then there's practically no way Ford and Posey can get significant minutes, other than injuries. Heck, even Dunleavy's minutes may be reduced, seeing that we have a lot of young wing players.

O'Brien apparently took his firing well. He thanked Bird for the opportunity, and then he told Vogel that he was happy for him. I know it's fashionable to think of Obie as the devil incarnate, but he really seems to be a decent guy.

Bird mentioned that he consulted a few players regarding Vogel's promotion. So presumably Danny, etc are on board with Vogel.

Vogel said that he has a very strong relationship with Hibbert, and that he believes wholeheartedly in Hibbert's abilities. If Hibberts's confidence was really dented by Obie, Vogel's promotion should give him a boost. Vogel also mentioned that they'll try to get Hibbert easy looks.

Vogel seems very confident, in the team and in himself. We'll see if he can back that up with results.

owl
01-30-2011, 05:28 PM
This is something to keep an eye on on the rest of the season. To me, that sets up a warning flag.


Let the second guessing begin.

Peck
01-30-2011, 05:29 PM
I did find it kind of odd that Bird mentioned Lance by name twice as a player he wants to see play.

Could we please put to be the Bird & white players thing?

Yea I know that came out of the blue to everyone but I just get sick of the inuendo that Bird only likes white players.

Miller-Time
01-30-2011, 05:35 PM
I hope yu guys already know Vogel means bird in german.

I was so close 2 share this info too - nice one :-p

PaceBalls
01-30-2011, 05:36 PM
I did find it kind of odd that Bird mentioned Lance by name twice as a player he wants to see play.

Could we please put to be the Bird & white players thing?

Yea I know that came out of the blue to everyone but I just get sick of the inuendo that Bird only likes white players.

Apparently he has a thing for Irish and German coaches too. Why not Walter McCarty? (I'm JK)

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 05:39 PM
OK, so I was watching the two press confefences with someone who doesn't follow the pacers. he asked why Vogel was so cocky. I have no idea and yes he was over-the-top cocky if you ask me. I was less than impressed

Trophy
01-30-2011, 05:40 PM
OK, so I was watching the two press confefences with someone who doesn't follow the pacers. he asked why Vogel was so cocky. I have no idea and yes he was over-the-top cocky if you ask me. I was less than impressed

How was he cocky?

He should be talking about himself.

Sookie
01-30-2011, 05:41 PM
I did find it kind of odd that Bird mentioned Lance by name twice as a player he wants to see play.

Could we please put to be the Bird & white players thing?

Yea I know that came out of the blue to everyone but I just get sick of the inuendo that Bird only likes white players.

He obviously likes Lance, I hope it's not to his detriment though.

But Lance is the only Pacer player to not see any minutes so far. It's hard to put him in at point, because he is behind three players. But we probably could have found a few minutes for him with Rush out...or..at the end of blow outs..basically, he should have at least a minute of playing time this season.

Trophy
01-30-2011, 05:42 PM
Here's an interview with Conrad Brunner and Frank.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/2011/01/30/vogel1on1110130flv-1539040/index.html

Speed
01-30-2011, 05:44 PM
I was excited about his confidence and instantly placed expectation on himself and the team. It made me almost believe. If he believes they are a good team, say it. I have no problem with it. I didn't see it as cocky, at all.

CooperManning
01-30-2011, 05:45 PM
OK, so I was watching the two press confefences with someone who doesn't follow the pacers. he asked why Vogel was so cocky. I have no idea and yes he was over-the-top cocky if you ask me. I was less than impressed

Because the only way he's going to get hired longterm is to act like he knows exactly what he's doing and lead the team into the playoffs. He doesn't know if he can pull it off or not, but he might as well try.

PaceBalls
01-30-2011, 05:46 PM
OK, so I was watching the two press confefences with someone who doesn't follow the pacers. he asked why Vogel was so cocky. I have no idea and yes he was over-the-top cocky if you ask me. I was less than impressed

I think it is just a natural reaction to everyone saying it is like a JV coach becoming a head coach in college. I mean really, this is a very turbulent time for the club. They pretty much just scrapped everything and said we need to start over. The best thing Vogel can do is try to be calm and add an aura of stability and confidence. I don't know what you else you could have been expecting?

aaronb
01-30-2011, 05:46 PM
I did find it kind of odd that Bird mentioned Lance by name twice as a player he wants to see play.

Could we please put to be the Bird & white players thing?

Yea I know that came out of the blue to everyone but I just get sick of the inuendo that Bird only likes white players.

What can Bird say at a presser at this point? He needs to sell the rubes on how much talent is supposedly on this roster. Every 2nd rounder on our roster is a future star now that we've got a new babysitter on the bench.

owl
01-30-2011, 05:47 PM
I am glad Vogel is confident. That can be infectious to the players. Ultimately the Pacers'
fortunes are going to be up to the players. They are still lacking strength inside.

owl
01-30-2011, 05:48 PM
Go get Glenn Davis. Add some bullk to the front line.

Trophy
01-30-2011, 05:48 PM
We're already getting recognized.

ESPN has a poll about us.

http://espn.go.com/

flox
01-30-2011, 05:49 PM
I did find it kind of odd that Bird mentioned Lance by name twice as a player he wants to see play.

Could we please put to be the Bird & white players thing?

Yea I know that came out of the blue to everyone but I just get sick of the inuendo that Bird only likes white players.

I just find it really weird that Stephenson is a Bird player. I don't really understand how both Hans and Stephenson are Bird players considering their college careers.

To me this was one of the most surprising things I learned in this press conference.

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 05:50 PM
This is a tweet from Michael Grady:


Roy H. had a minor setback 2day. He's acknowledged that he's trying to gain weight, but he just lost about 15lb's off his back w/2day's news

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 05:51 PM
I just find it really weird that Stephenson is a Bird player. I don't really understand how both Hans and Stephenson are Bird players considering their college careers.

To me this was one of the most surprising things I learned in this press conference.

Did he say he was one of "his" players, or just wants to see him? I don't remember saying either one was one of "his type" players for that matter, although Tyler obviously seems to fit the bill.

flox
01-30-2011, 05:52 PM
Did he say he was one of "his" players, or just wants to see him? I don't remember saying either one was one of "his type" players for that matter, although Tyler obviously seems to fit the bill.

From the way he talked mostly about Lance and Hans and not so much about Paul, I felt that Lance was someone that Bird really liked.

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 05:55 PM
From the way he talked mostly about Lance and Hans and not so much about Paul, I felt that Lance was someone that Bird really liked.

Fair enough. Could it be because Paul is already getting some more minutes, as opposed to Lance, and Hans early.

Hicks
01-30-2011, 05:57 PM
What can Bird say at a presser at this point? He needs to sell the rubes on how much talent is supposedly on this roster. Every 2nd rounder on our roster is a future star now that we've got a new babysitter on the bench.

If you're sick of the alleged apologists, I'm sure as hell sick of your nonsensical hyperbole.

90'sNBARocked
01-30-2011, 05:57 PM
OK, so I was watching the two press confefences with someone who doesn't follow the pacers. he asked why Vogel was so cocky. I have no idea and yes he was over-the-top cocky if you ask me. I was less than impressed

I feel ya on that UB,

He had a cocky way of putting himself first, and his body movement reflected that

I dont care if he is cocky a long as he backs it up

Trophy
01-30-2011, 05:58 PM
O'Brien's final appearance with the Pacers.

http://i53.tinypic.com/1415mwo.jpg

flox
01-30-2011, 05:59 PM
Fair enough. Could it be because Paul is already getting some more minutes, as opposed to Lance, and Hans early.

That could make sense as well. I remember that we we're willing to trade up to get Lance, so i feel like we must really rate him highly.

90'sNBARocked
01-30-2011, 06:01 PM
I just find it really weird that Stephenson is a Bird player. I don't really understand how both Hans and Stephenson are Bird players considering their college careers.

To me this was one of the most surprising things I learned in this press conference.

I totally get it

I bet you PG, Tyler, and Lance have about as much self confidence as anyone on the team.

Thats what I think Bird loves in a player, because thats exactly what Bird was as a player , a cocky son of a bytch ( I mean that in a good way)

alamo1978
01-30-2011, 06:01 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned in the hundreds of JOB threads today, but is anyone hoping that Vogel is like a Brad Stevens and just surprises the heck out of the whole league?

IUfan4life
01-30-2011, 06:01 PM
OK, so I was watching the two press confefences with someone who doesn't follow the pacers. he asked why Vogel was so cocky. I have no idea and yes he was over-the-top cocky if you ask me. I was less than impressed

How do you feel he portrayed cockiness?

To me he looked overwhemingly happy to be a head coach in the NBA.

MyFavMartin
01-30-2011, 06:03 PM
The schedule the next month is fairly friendly to Vogel. Next four games are Toronto, Cleveland, Portland, and New Jersey.

aaronb
01-30-2011, 06:03 PM
If you're sick of the alleged apologists, I'm sure as hell sick of your nonsensical hyperbole.

The major problem on this team is lack of talent. That falls on the front office. What is Larry Bird trying to highlight today? His own failings, or the reason it's another guys fault? Pretty standard stuff really.

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 06:05 PM
That could make sense as well. I remember that we we're willing to trade up to get Lance, so i feel like we must really rate him highly.

Good point. I just think Bird is trying to make the point that the young guys need to play more, and you can argue PG and TH are getting some. So LS is the easiest example to show you are changing things.

As you said before though, it is just odd to think of LS as a Bird player, although the attitude thing that 90s brought up is also possible.

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 06:05 PM
I hope Vogel's coaching is a lot better than his first press conference. Call it confident or cocky, or maybe he is just a NJ guy. Wish him the best.

I am facinated I'll tell u that.

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 06:07 PM
Fair enough. Could it be because Paul is already getting some more minutes, as opposed to Lance, and Hans early.

No he said he wanted Paul getting more PT at 2 different postions. Paul is a larry guy

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 06:09 PM
I hope Vogel's coaching is a lot better than his first press conference. Call it confident or cocky, or maybe he is just a NJ guy. Wish him the best.

I am facinated I'll tell u that.

That presser was great I cant wait tell he coaches 2mrw

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 06:09 PM
No he said he wanted Paul getting more PT at 2 different postions. Paul is a larry guy

I'm just saying none of these guys are "Bird guys" necessarily just because of him wanting them to get playing time.

MyFavMartin
01-30-2011, 06:10 PM
The major problem on this team is lack of talent. That falls on the front office. What is Larry Bird trying to highlight today? His own failings, or the reason it's another guys fault? Pretty standard stuff really.

Chicago's commentators were talking about the fact this team does have talent.

The Pacers did beat Miami and LA earlier this season. Guess that was a fluke?

This team does have talent: JOB doesn't have a history of developing young talent. Larry was bothered with Tyler not getting PT earlier. I think he's itching to see Lance given a shot. Hibbert needs to get back to dominating, as Vogel pointed out... This team does have the talent to be #7 or #8 in the East... They're not Boston or LA, but they're not Detroit or Toronto.

Dr. Awesome
01-30-2011, 06:12 PM
OK, so I was watching the two press confefences with someone who doesn't follow the pacers. he asked why Vogel was so cocky. I have no idea and yes he was over-the-top cocky if you ask me. I was less than impressed

I don't understand you at all. You defend a terrible coach always looking for logical explanations, then the very first chanced you get, you criticize the new guy.

What did you expect him to say?

"Yea, well Bird made a mistake, I'm not ready for this job, hopefully I can BS around enough to get a few wins."

"Yea, I don't like this roster at all, I don't have confidence in anyone on the team, we should trade them all."

"Playoffs! Are you kidding me? You wanna talk about playoffs!?"

ilive4sports
01-30-2011, 06:12 PM
Vogel seemed confident, not cocky to me. The past few weeks we all heard reports JOB wouldn't be fired because the assistants, including Vogel, weren't good enough for the job. Vogel coming out and being confident was the right move because he doesn't look scared and thats what is needed.

Hell maybe he has something big planned that he thinks will really change this team. At this point we just dont know.

MyFavMartin
01-30-2011, 06:13 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned in the hundreds of JOB threads today, but is anyone hoping that Vogel is like a Brad Stevens and just surprises the heck out of the whole league?

I was thinking the same thing when I was watching him talk.

wintermute
01-30-2011, 06:17 PM
The major problem on this team is lack of talent. That falls on the front office. What is Larry Bird trying to highlight today? His own failings, or the reason it's another guys fault? Pretty standard stuff really.

In fairness to Larry, he did say the team's performance doesn't fall on the coach alone, that it reflects on the players and management as well.

I thought Bird made clear in his answers that his own accounting comes at the end of the year.


I hope Vogel's coaching is a lot better than his first press conference. Call it confident or cocky, or maybe he is just a NJ guy. Wish him the best.


Are you referring to when he talked about his experience? I thought he was a touch defensive actually. Maybe he's heard the whispers about him being so inexperienced.

ksuttonjr76
01-30-2011, 06:17 PM
O'Brien's final appearance with the Pacers.

http://i53.tinypic.com/1415mwo.jpg

Honestly, I think he knew it was coming looking at that picture.

aaronb
01-30-2011, 06:17 PM
Chicago's commentators were talking about the fact this team does have talent.

The Pacers did beat Miami and LA earlier this season. Guess that was a fluke?

This team does have talent: JOB doesn't have a history of developing young talent. Larry was bothered with Tyler not getting PT earlier. I think he's itching to see Lance given a shot. Hibbert needs to get back to dominating, as Vogel pointed out... This team does have the talent to be #7 or #8 in the East... They're not Boston or LA, but they're not Detroit or Toronto.

I think that we as fans tend to overrate our own players. If you polled all the prominent NBA pundits, and asked them to rate this roster. Not a single guy would rate us top 3rd. Chances are that 50-80% would put us in the bottom 3rd.

JOB wasn't anything special as a coach. But he wasn't anymore than a small percentage of the actual problem.

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 06:18 PM
How do you feel he portrayed cockiness?

To me he looked overwhemingly happy to be a head coach in the NBA.

when asked how the transition will go he said seemless. he just had several very cocky answers

Trophy
01-30-2011, 06:19 PM
They're talking about the firing on NBATV.

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 06:20 PM
wells is on NBATV

ilive4sports
01-30-2011, 06:20 PM
I think that we as fans tend to overrate our own players. If you polled all the prominent NBA pundits, and asked them to rate this roster. Not a single guy would rate us top 3rd. Chances are that 50-80% would put us in the bottom 3rd.

JOB wasn't anything special as a coach. But he wasn't anymore than a small percentage of the actual problem.

Well I think we would be higher than bottom 3rd. Our future is bright, many coaches say this. How many times have we heard the Pacers are better than their record shows? Quite a few. If our talent doesn't develop any more then yes, we aren't that talented. But the core of the roster is very young. Not to mention we have a ton of flexibility right now. I think this team is in a very good position right now.

ksuttonjr76
01-30-2011, 06:20 PM
I think that we as fans tend to overrate our own players. If you polled all the prominent NBA pundits, and asked them to rate this roster. Not a single guy would rate us top 3rd. Chances are that 50-80% would put us in the bottom 3rd.

JOB wasn't anything special as a coach. But he wasn't anymore than a small percentage of the actual problem.

Causing trouble for the sake of causing trouble...

Sookie
01-30-2011, 06:22 PM
when asked how the transition will go he said seemless. he just had several very cocky answers

That's out of context. He said that about the relationships between him and his players, and I think it was more of a compliment to them, rather than himself.

Trophy
01-30-2011, 06:22 PM
I love what Wells is saying about Roy's confidence going to increase.

Deadshot
01-30-2011, 06:23 PM
Is there anywhere I can catch a video of the whole conference? I was unable to watch the stream but would love to see it.

Kegboy
01-30-2011, 06:24 PM
You know, one name I haven't seen in either thread is Dahntay Jones. I will be shocked if he doesn't get some pt.

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 06:25 PM
You know, one name I haven't seen in either thread is Dahntay Jones. I will be shocked if he doesn't get some pt.

fans won't like that all

colts19
01-30-2011, 06:26 PM
OK, so I was watching the two press confefences with someone who doesn't follow the pacers. he asked why Vogel was so cocky. I have no idea and yes he was over-the-top cocky if you ask me. I was less than impressed

Unclebuck, come on man, I know we see things differently. Over the top cocky, was not at all what I saw. I saw a guy who was happy to have the chance and expressed that.

Please defend this guy the way you did Obe.

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 06:26 PM
Paul George will be on WTHR sports Jam tonight around 11:30 tonight

Sookie
01-30-2011, 06:27 PM
You know, one name I haven't seen in either thread is Dahntay Jones. I will be shocked if he doesn't get some pt.

I doubt he will. Perhaps now while Rush is out, but..and I like Dahntay a lot..Rush and George make Dahntay useless. They are just as good defensively and much better offensively.

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 06:28 PM
Unclebuck, come on man, I know we see things differently. Over the top cocky, was not at all what I saw. I saw a guy who was happy to have the chance and expressed that.

Please defend this guy the way you did Obe.

I'll defend him like I did Obe if and when so many criticize him. But that won't happen at least for awhile. but I will look to see if Vogel is held to the same standard as JOB was

Dr. Awesome
01-30-2011, 06:32 PM
I'll defend him like I did Obe if and when so many criticize him. But that won't happen at least for awhile. but I will look to see if Vogel is held to the same standard as JOB was

The only standard Jim O'Brien was held to was being competent, which he failed at.

PaceBalls
01-30-2011, 06:34 PM
Honestly, I think he knew it was coming looking at that picture.

I just watched his last press conference they had posted on pacers.com from the NJ win and he really sounded and looked tired like a beaten man, which was weird after winning big over NJ. He also seemed to be trying very hard not to say anything too disparaging about the players. When asked about PG's game, all he said was... I thought he was fine on offense... and you could tell he really wanted to say but Paul was terrible on defense and got lost on way too many rotations, but he just left it at that.

I think he knew it was a strong possibility he would be gone very soon.

BillS
01-30-2011, 06:36 PM
Wintermute covered a lot of the statements, so I'll use that post as my springboard. I will use the quotes as starting points, so please don't assume I'm reading anything into them specifically, as I will be commenting generally.


Bird made it clear that he'd like to see the young players play. If Vogel follows that mandate (and presumably he would since his boss just got sacked because of it), then there's practically no way Ford and Posey can get significant minutes, other than injuries. Heck, even Dunleavy's minutes may be reduced, seeing that we have a lot of young wing players.

It depends what is meant by "play".

I don't know of anyone on the board, no matter what side of the debate they were on, that didn't feel there weren't some minutes available to get the young guys on the floor.

However, that does not mean significant minutes or even minutes that impact the game.

I'll be happy if it means young guys see the floor and if it means certain players aren't left out there even when they aren't producing. I don't think anyone should be basing their expectations on Lance getting 7-10 minutes a game or Dunleavy being in street clothes.


Bird mentioned that he consulted a few players regarding Vogel's promotion. So presumably Danny, etc are on board with Vogel.

Don't get confused, nothing in Larry's statement said anything about talking to guys before he talked to Jim. I don't think he "consulted" with them but I think he talked to them once the decision was made.


Vogel also mentioned that they'll try to get Hibbert easy looks.

Vogel seems very confident, in the team and in himself. We'll see if he can back that up with results.

I found it very interesting that Vogel said something to the effect of the players not being able to use the coach any more as a reason for not doing well. That definitely implies there was some blaming of the coach going on in the locker room. It doesn't say anything about how much or how vehement, but it confirms that players felt JOB was holding them back.

The first key will be seeing who is in street clothes Monday. Assuming Brandon still needs time, there are two spots. I would not be surprised to see TJ in one, and I would not be unhappy to see Posey in one (though I'd understand if he was not, since I think he is a good defensive spark roll player). I would be disappointed if Dun was in one, because I think he has done nothing but what he was asked to do all season and has had some very good games - I'd hope his playing time is based on how he is actually doing in that specific game, though.

mb221
01-30-2011, 06:38 PM
I'll defend him like I did Obe if and when so many criticize him. But that won't happen at least for awhile. but I will look to see if Vogel is held to the same standard as JOB was

I don't see how you could expect an assistant coach with no prior head coaching experience that is promoted mid-season in the middle of a poor run of form for the team could possibly be expected to be held to the same standard as a veteran NBA coach. Doesn't seem fair to Coach Vogel to me. I think from the statements he made in the press conference today that he will be making changes that fans on this board and in the public will be happy with, but I don't think people will be calling for this man's head after one, two, or ten losses.. as well they shouldn't be.

BringJackBack
01-30-2011, 06:39 PM
Is there any way to watch this again? I want to see it again.

Not going to lie, but Vogel sounded like he was sent from God. We'll see what happens

Dr. Awesome
01-30-2011, 06:41 PM
I'll defend him like I did Obe if and when so many criticize him. But that won't happen at least for awhile. but I will look to see if Vogel is held to the same standard as JOB was

I'd also like to make the observation that you bash him when everyone else is excited about him, then say that you will defend him when/if everyone else starts to bash him. I've always called you out as a guy who just likes to play devils advocate and I feel like this proves it.

Also, you don't even know why people may be bashing him later on, so I find it funny that you say with certainty you would defend him. It doesn't seem to matter to you what he is doing that could potentially get people upset down the road, you've already made your mind up that you will be on his side.

Its very clear that you know what your talking about, and I feel like you know enough about basketball to realize that Jim O'Brien is a moron. For me, it all comes back to you playing devils advocate.

Justin Tyme
01-30-2011, 06:42 PM
To hire an external candidate for 30-some games doesn't make a lot of sense. The schedule is so tight, the coach couldn't run his schemes well and worst-case would be that he is burned after his first 3 months with this franchise.


Apparently, MJ didn't agree with you when he hired Paul Silas to replace Brown. It's been working very well.

Marlin
01-30-2011, 06:43 PM
He specifically mentioned substitution patterns as something he wanted to change. And he mentioned that playing the younger guys doesn't always equal losing.
I'm sure that's Vogel's point ot view, too, but Bird most likely dictated those lines. Hell, JOB was fired for those issues more than anything, it would be very, very stupid for a fresh coach to not change them.

ilive4sports
01-30-2011, 06:46 PM
I don't think Dun should ever be in a suit on this team. He can always give more to this team than Posey, TJ, Lance (Dun playing is more important than Lance playing), Dahanty, and Solo. I'd expect Dun to either continue starting or coming in off the bench early, no reason not to.

I hope to see a lineup of:
Collison/Price/Lance
George/Rush/Dun/Lance
Granger/George/Dun
Tyler/Josh/Granger(when needing a spark)
Hibbert/Foster/McBob

Thats 11 guys so there is still an open spot for probably Solo because the front court would be thin if he doesn't dress. He certainly shouldnt play much if at all. TJ, Dahanty, and James Posey can be inactive. Maybe switch Posey and Solo.

Trophy
01-30-2011, 06:47 PM
Hopefully there will be a coaches show again, The Frank Vogel Show on 1070.

Sookie
01-30-2011, 06:47 PM
I'd also like to make the observation that you bash him when everyone else is excited about him, then say that you will defend him when/if everyone else starts to bash him. I've always called you out as a guy who just likes to play devils advocate and I feel like this proves it.

Also, you don't even know why people may be bashing him later on, so I find it funny that you say with certainty you would defend him. It doesn't seem to matter to you what he is doing that could potentially get people upset down the road, you've already made your mind up that you will be on his side.

Its very clear that you know what your talking about, and I feel like you know enough about basketball to realize that Jim O'Brien is a moron. For me, it all comes back to you playing devils advocate.

I'd actually like to hear what UB actually thinks of JOB, without taking into consideration how other posters feel.

Sandman21
01-30-2011, 06:49 PM
Apparently, MJ didn't agree with you when he hired Paul Silas to replace Brown. It's been working very well.
That was also much earlier in the season.....


Is there anywhere I can catch a video of the whole conference? I was unable to watch the stream but would love to see it.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/2011/01/30/presser4wmv-1539119/index.html

Trophy
01-30-2011, 06:51 PM
I wish the head coach would change on NBA 2K11.

pwee31
01-30-2011, 06:55 PM
I have no problem with Frank Vogel's mindset.

If you won't promote yourself, why should anyone else?

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 06:56 PM
I wish the head coach would change on NBA 2K11.

it will when they update the rosters but u will have 2 restart ur franchsie

Justin Tyme
01-30-2011, 06:57 PM
fans won't like that all


Please don't speak for me. I'm in the minority, but Jimmy did a terrible job handling his displeasure of Dahntay.

I'm also in the minority about never wanting to see Stephenson play in a uni. I just keep waiting for the other shoe to drop with another PR nightmare.

PacersPride
01-30-2011, 07:01 PM
anyone else mentioned this already? at the 11:40 mark in the bird press conference, he mentions signing 2 players in the offseason, might he already have a select player he beleives will be attainable?

http://www.wthr.com/story/13934950/pacers-fire-head-coach

Aw Heck
01-30-2011, 07:04 PM
anyone else mentioned this already? at the 11:40 mark in the bird press conference, he mentions signing 2 players in the offseason, might he already have a select player he beleives will be attainable?

http://www.wthr.com/story/13934950/pacers-fire-head-coach
I'm sure he has some players in mind that he'd like to target.

I just think he knows he's going to have more than enough money available to throw at players that can help the team. PF is his top priority, no doubt.

Trophy
01-30-2011, 07:05 PM
it will when they update the rosters but u will have 2 restart ur franchsie

I checked the coaches profiles and the Bobcats still have Larry Brown as the coach.

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 07:08 PM
I checked the coaches profiles and the Bobcats still have Larry Brown as the coach.

o man 2k is getting lazy

Trophy
01-30-2011, 07:10 PM
o man 2k is getting lazy

They did change the Warriors head coach from Don Nelson to Keith Smart.

Justin Tyme
01-30-2011, 07:10 PM
That was also much earlier in the season.....


They started playing better immediately with a coach who wasn't even associated with the Bobcats. He had to come in pretty cold, so the much earlier part doesn't hold water.

Deadshot
01-30-2011, 07:11 PM
it will when they update the rosters but u will have 2 restart ur franchsie

Are you sure about that? The last time I played Larry Brown was still on the game. It might be different in this case because Silas was not on the game in any form where head assistants are on the game (and yet they have people like Mark Jackson on the game too lol).

Justin Tyme
01-30-2011, 07:14 PM
My guess that the Toronto game will have Rush, Ford, and Solo sitting it suits. That is if Tyler can play. If not, then Tyler will be in a suit and Solo dressed.

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 07:14 PM
I checked the coaches profiles and the Bobcats still have Larry Brown as the coach.

I bet if u told ronnie 2k or one of the 2k people to change it they would. But Vogel isnt even in the game it is Dan Burke as the head asst.

Trophy
01-30-2011, 07:15 PM
My guess that the Toronto game will have Rush, Ford, and Solo sitting it suits. That is if Tyler can play. If not, then Tyler will be in a suit and Solo dressed.

I agree and I believe in the box score, we'll see James Posey - DNP CD.

Trophy
01-30-2011, 07:19 PM
I bet if u told ronnie 2k or one of the 2k people to change it they would. But Vogel isnt even in the game it is Dan Burke as the head asst.

I'll tweet him and ask.

Maybe create Frank like new D-League call ups are created.

90'sNBARocked
01-30-2011, 07:30 PM
Is there any way to watch this again? I want to see it again.

Not going to lie, but Vogel sounded like he was sent from God. We'll see what happens


http://www.wthr.com/story/13934950/pacers-fire-head-coach

imawhat
01-30-2011, 08:00 PM
I'll defend him like I did Obe if and when so many criticize him. But that won't happen at least for awhile. but I will look to see if Vogel is held to the same standard as JOB was

Whatever. You just found something to nitpick about Vogel, which ironically is a trait shared by our former coach.

Why even nitpick him at this point? This schtick got old a long time ago, imo.

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 09:46 PM
Whatever. You just found something to nitpick about Vogel, which ironically is a trait shared by our former coach.

Why even nitpick him at this point? This schtick got old a long time ago, imo.

What schtick are you talking about. If giving my honest opinion is a schtick then i'm guilty as charged, if it is something else then you are just wrong.

If just relating that I thougt Vogel was cocky in his press conference, no one else agreed with me, that is OK, but what is wrong with giving my opinion.

wow.

AesopRockOn
01-30-2011, 09:56 PM
Oddly, the unexpectedness of the announcement feels anti-climactic. I hope this makes things better.

grace
01-30-2011, 10:03 PM
You know, one name I haven't seen in either thread is Dahntay Jones. I will be shocked if he doesn't get some pt.


fans won't like that all

Fans won't like what? I might actually watch a game if they start playing Dahntay/

Since86
01-30-2011, 10:05 PM
What schtick are you talking about. If giving my honest opinion is a schtick then i'm guilty as charged, if it is something else then you are just wrong.

If just relating that I thougt Vogel was cocky in his press conference, no one else agreed with me, that is OK, but what is wrong with giving my opinion.

wow.

Honest opinion? The same "honest opinion" we touted for so long in which were called "knee-jerk reactions" and "extreme?"

You told us for so long how we shouldn't be upset at Jim, because of whatever reason you decided on that day, and his replacement can't go 15mins on the job without you criticizing him, and you want to know what "schtick" he's talking about?


Geesh......

vnzla81
01-30-2011, 10:12 PM
Honest opinion? The same "honest opinion" we touted for so long in which were called "knee-jerk reactions" and "extreme?"

You told us for so long how we shouldn't be upset at Jim, because of whatever reason you decided on that day, and his replacement can't go 15mins on the job without you criticizing him, and you want to know what "schtick" he's talking about?


Geesh......

Yep he is the new hater.

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 10:23 PM
Honest opinion? The same "honest opinion" we touted for so long in which were called "knee-jerk reactions" and "extreme?"

You told us for so long how we shouldn't be upset at Jim, because of whatever reason you decided on that day, and his replacement can't go 15mins on the job without you criticizing him, and you want to know what "schtick" he's talking about?


Geesh......

I thought a lot of it was knee-jerk and extreme. That was my opinion. It is impossible to go back and say what was what now though. Keep in mind though I thought Jim should have been replaced after last season and i think it was more than time to replace him now.

I believe everything I say in my posts There have been times in order to try and talk about something other than how bad JOB was, i tried to steer the converation into more of les coaching topics and away from JOB

I hope Vogel does a great job and i'll make one guarantee, I won't be critical of Vogel at all, but will be facinated by the reaction to him in this forum

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 10:24 PM
Yep he is the new hater.

after one sort of tongue and cheek comment. LOL

Merz
01-30-2011, 10:29 PM
I thought a lot of it was knee-jerk and extreme. That was my opinion. It is impossible to go back and say what was what now though. Keep in mind though I thought Jim should have been replaced after last season and i think it was more than time to replace him now.

I believe everything I say in my posts There have ben times in order to try and talk abkut something other than how bad JOB was, i tried to steer the converation into more of les coaching topics and away from JOB

You don't realize that your attempts at "steering the conversation" just lead to more JOB conversation? Not everyone remembers your post from a year ago, so your post just come off like you are right there in agreement with his decisions.

Either you've been a JOB supporter/apologist, the devils advocate (as Dr. Awesome stated), or you've just failed to communicate your point when you've tried your "steering".

vnzla81
01-30-2011, 10:34 PM
You don't realize that your attempts at "steering the conversation" just lead to more JOB conversation? Not everyone remembers your post from a year ago, so your post just come off like you are right there in agreement with his decisions.

Either you've been a JOB supporter/apologist, the devils advocate (as Dr. Awesome stated), or you've just failed to communicate your point when you've tried your "steering".

I think he want us to talk about the "former coach" so he can play devil's advocate once again but is not going to happen ......... :cool:

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 10:34 PM
You don't realize that your attempts at "steering the conversation" just lead to more JOB conversation? Not everyone remembers your post from a year ago, do your post just come off like you are right there in agreement with his decisions.

Either you've been a JOB supporter/apologist, the devils advocate (as Dr. Awesome stated), or you've just failed to communicate your point when you've tried your "steering".



My posts usually originate from someone else asking a question like this. For example why didn't Josh play more in the game. so I often times attempted to answer those types of questions usually leaving my personal opinions out of it. I honestly thought that people wanted answers to those type of questions, 90% of the time they didn't.

Or other tims if someone critizes small ball for example I will attempt to broaden the discusion away from the hot=button issue of JOB's small ball more into a general discusion of small ball and when it is good, bad........

90'sNBARocked
01-30-2011, 10:41 PM
I feel ya on that UB,

He had a cocky way of putting himself first, and his body movement reflected that

I dont care if he is cocky a long as he backs it up

Bump

McKeyFan
01-30-2011, 10:43 PM
My posts usually originate from someone else asking a question like this. For example why didn't Josh play more in the game. so I often times attempted to answer those types of questions usually leaving my personal opinions out of it. I honestly thought that people wanted answers to those type of questions, 90% of the time they didn't.

Or other tims if someone critizes small ball for example I will attempt to broaden the discusion away from the hot=button issue of JOB's small ball more into a general discusion of small ball and when it is good, bad........
It would have been a better strategy, UB, if the coach hadn't been an odd, anomalous, stunningly hardheaded smart-alec with huge blind spots. Otherwise, he was a decent coach.

I'm reminded of a USA Today article that talked about the people coming over the PA system in the world trade center telling everyone not to panic. "Actually, the correct action was to panic" wrote the newspaper.

For Pacer fans, the correct thing was not to discuss the various fine points of JOB's tactics. It was to protest madly for his departure.

90'sNBARocked
01-30-2011, 10:43 PM
What schtick are you talking about. If giving my honest opinion is a schtick then i'm guilty as charged, if it is something else then you are just wrong.

If just relating that I thougt Vogel was cocky in his press conference, no one else agreed with me, that is OK, but what is wrong with giving my opinion.

wow.

see bump

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 10:48 PM
For Pacer fans, the correct thing was not to discuss the various fine points of JOB's tactics. It was to protest madly for his departure.

Now in that case I will, never side with the masses. Plus in general I did think Jim was a better coach than 90% of Pacers fans did. I didnt want him fired or not brought back this seson because I thought he was a bad coach, but that it was time for a change. I would give Jim a very solid B for his first two years here.

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 10:50 PM
see bump

Ok, yes you did agree with me. Why aren't they ripping you also

Merz
01-30-2011, 10:51 PM
My posts usually originate from someone else asking a question like this. For example why didn't Josh play more in the game. so I often times attempted to answer those types of questions usually leaving my personal opinions out of it. I honestly thought that people wanted answers to those type of questions, 90% of the time they didn't.

Or other tims if someone critizes small ball for example I will attempt to broaden the discusion away from the hot=button issue of JOB's small ball more into a general discusion of small ball and when it is good, bad........

I get where you're coming from. I know you're trying to explain OB's thought process behind his decisions. That's not necessarily the answers people are looking for. Most know the flawed concept of JOB's decisions, people often wonder why he doesn't see them as flawed.

I hope I'm making sense and you can see the difference between the two (I don't blame you if you don't know what I'm talking about).

The disagreements people have with you often just comes down to communication. As your answering of those questions often comes off as you agreeing with JOB's concepts and not just answering questions.

Sookie
01-30-2011, 11:05 PM
Now in that case I will, never side with the masses. Plus in general I did think Jim was a better coach than 90% of Pacers fans did. I didnt want him fired or not brought back this seson because I thought he was a bad coach, but that it was time for a change. I would give Jim a very solid B for his first two years here.

other than the amount of wins for his first two seasons, out of curiosity, why did you think JOB is a good coach?

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 11:15 PM
other than the amount of wins for his first two seasons, out of curiosity, why did you think JOB is a good coach?

getting that Celtics team to the ECF was one of the best coaching jobs I can remember.

I'm too tired to get into the specifics

Since86
01-31-2011, 12:00 AM
I thought a lot of it was knee-jerk and extreme. That was my opinion. It is impossible to go back and say what was what now though. Keep in mind though I thought Jim should have been replaced after last season and i think it was more than time to replace him now.

I believe everything I say in my posts There have been times in order to try and talk about something other than how bad JOB was, i tried to steer the converation into more of les coaching topics and away from JOB

I hope Vogel does a great job and i'll make one guarantee, I won't be critical of Vogel at all, but will be facinated by the reaction to him in this forum


Ok, yes you did agree with me. Why aren't they ripping you also

Because you're failing to understand that your "arrogant" claim is a knee-jerk reaction to the guy's very first press conference as a head coach.

What did you expect him to do, lay down and cry? He HAS to portray confidence, he's trying to rally his newly acquired troops.

We don't rip into 90's over it, because he hasn't told us how "extreme" or how our reactions have been "knee-jerk" for the past year. You have.

If you really were the defender of the defendable, you'd take your own advice and give the man some time before you start grading his performance.

PacerGuy
01-31-2011, 12:02 AM
(I moved this because I should have put it here!)

If I had the time or the energy I search for the Jack Buck/ Kirk Gibson HR call, because IMO Franky V. hit a walk-off in that presser.
I heard it live, but wanted to watch the video because I wanted to look into his eyes & see what (if anything) his face was saying that his mouth was not. What I saw I liked - I liked a lot!!!

-Dude looked like he just ate the canarey & was proud of it. Not to say he wished anything ill of JO'B, infact IMO his appreciation for his former boss was more clear in his face then in his eyes, but when he mentioned how happy Jim was for him, he took off & put the "How" behind him & started living the "Now".

-He was confident & in NO WAY feels over-whelmed. I think he & Larry have much of the same feelings, & IMO that is why he got this chance. He seems like he has a quiet love affair w/ the un-used/ un-realized talent on this team. I think he will be great for Roy. I think he will play Tyler & Josh over Posey (no more Posey on Amare/Griffen!!!), & I think you will ro the "Joy of Roy" enthuesiam return to the court.

-I wanted to play & win for him, & I'm 41, kinda fat, & hate to run! He has a college enthuesiam, but a quiet, mature & serious side. A NBA seasoned Brad Stephens-type if you will. I think he knows these players will kill themselves for him, & I think that excites him.

-He thinks this is his time. He went out of his way to scoff & put aside any talk of his "inexperience" w/ the facts & the gleem of confidence that i see missing from some of our current players (Roy). If he can put that gleem & confidence into Roy, Tyler, Paul, Josh, Lance & others, then we will all get what we want. H.O.P.E.

-T.G.I.F. (Thank God It's Foster) who is here to help Frank. Jeff has such a history & a respect of the youth on this team that IMO this is kinda an opportunity for him to say "come on boy's, you want to show you are men, now is your time."

-Lastly, most of all I liked how he phrased the "We all have a share of the responsibility for what did/ will happen". He stated this is not about "him", but about "them". With JO'B, it was always about JO'B & his stat's. Today, Frank basically said, "JO'B is no longer an exscuse for you, YOU are the answer for you, so now is the time to show it, & I'm here to help you do it!"

Sooo....: Danny, Roy, Darren, Tyler, Paul, Brandon, Josh, Lance, AJ, Jeff, Mike, Solo, Dauntey, James, & TJ.... MAN UP & DO IT!!!
After today it is on you! Show us you are better then you have shown us. Show us you have the talent we talk about. It's all on you now....
DO IT!!!

CableKC
01-31-2011, 02:04 AM
i dont know why all if you are piling on top of UB. Despite his comments regarding J'Ob in the past.....He's entitled to his opinion on Vogel. Given that this is the first time that UB ( much less anyone ) has heard him speak......UB just gave his opinion on his FIRST IMPRESSIONS of the guy. Add in that he mentioned that othe non-Pacers fans gave a similiar opinion ( i assmue without any bias towards or against J'Ob )....I'll just leave it as a simple opinion that I'd hope ( or at least think ) that UB is more then happy to change IF Vogel proves him wrong.

Since86
01-31-2011, 02:07 AM
He's doing the exact same thing he claimed we were doing. I don't know what you want to call it, but I think it's called being a hypocrit.

If he's going to do the exact same thing he complained we were doing, then why in the hell did we argue for so long about the situation????

I feel cheated.

I mean seriously, now I'm the one saying we shouldn't have "knee-jerk" reactions to UB. We've completely flip-flopped places.

gummy
01-31-2011, 02:17 AM
So - can we lay the "If players have a problem being harshly criticized by their coach in the media they are big babies who are too sensitive to be in the NBA," argument to rest now? I've seen a number of people say just that, but I assume no one here wants to say Mr. Bird didn't belong in the league.

Realistically I know that this isn't going to be the end of this kind of thinking, but it's interesting that Larry came right out and commented on this.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110131/SPORTS04/101310323/1062/Players-hope-change-spurs-playoff-run/Pacers-fire-coach-O-Brien?odyssey=mod_sectionstories

Team officials were frustrated when they heard or read O'Brien's public critiquing of players.

"I never did that when I was a coach and I didn't like it when I was a player," Bird said. "If you look at some of our players, especially Roy, he looks like he's down. He's not running around, not having a good time like he was earlier. Obviously it's affecting him."

CableKC
01-31-2011, 02:42 AM
So - can we lay the "If players have a problem being harshly criticized by their coach in the media they are big babies who are too sensitive to be in the NBA," argument to rest now? I've seen a number of people say just that, but I assume no one here wants to say Mr. Bird didn't belong in the league.

Realistically I know that this isn't going to be the end of this kind of thinking, but it's interesting that Larry came right out and commented on this.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110131/SPORTS04/101310323/1062/Players-hope-change-spurs-playoff-run/Pacers-fire-coach-O-Brien?odyssey=mod_sectionstories

Team officials were frustrated when they heard or read O'Brien's public critiquing of players.

"I never did that when I was a coach and I didn't like it when I was a player," Bird said. "If you look at some of our players, especially Roy, he looks like he's down. He's not running around, not having a good time like he was earlier. Obviously it's affecting him."
Geez....good thing that this was the first time that JO'B commented about Players.

I really wonder what was the "straw that broke the camel's back"....cuz this sounds like "one of the reasons" ( as this is not the first time that JO'B has commented about Players )...but IMHO not THE reason that changed the opinion of the Simons and the FO to finally pull the trigger on letting JO'B go.

CableKC
01-31-2011, 03:23 AM
He's doing the exact same thing he claimed we were doing. I don't know what you want to call it, but I think it's called being a hypocrit.

If he's going to do the exact same thing he complained we were doing, then why in the hell did we argue for so long about the situation????

I feel cheated.

I mean seriously, now I'm the one saying we shouldn't have "knee-jerk" reactions to UB. We've completely flip-flopped places.
This was posted in another thread....but I thought it would be relevant here as well.

http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...ch-Jim-O-Brien




So what do we know about Vogel?

Not much.

But he certainly looks and sounds the part, and during his introduction Sunday, he brandished a confidence that bordered on cocky -- the good kind of cocky. O'Brien was relentlessly negative, like a columnist, really. A positive voice might get some play, both in the locker room and throughout this city.
It's not like UBs impressions of Vogel's Press Conference wasn't that far off from what others thought of him.

I don't know if the overall negativity that was felt towards JO'B has rubbed off onto UB ( for his seemingly endless defense of JO'B ), I'm just saying that I get the feeling that UB posted what his initial impressions are and that he wasn't trying to be negative towards Vogel at all.

bellisimo
01-31-2011, 04:54 AM
I wouldn't call Vogel's speech cocky or confident - it felt refreshing and positive for a change - and that was nice.

If he talked about going out and winning the ECF and taking this team to the Finals...then he'd sound cocky and rather foolish. There wasn't anything in his statements which was not a reality.

I liked the fact that he started the bat off with "anti JOB" style praising the players - not just handpicking anyone of them but sayin 1-15. This increases morale of the players and should boost the spirit of everyone within the organization.

I'd give this press conference an A.

They got the point across that the upper management is not going to stand for "loser basketball", Vogel is going to bring a fresh air but also they gave a fair warning not to expect earth shattering changes to the system right away due to "conditions" of no training camp/practice.

Now lets see how it all goes down. This team needed this change long before - but as they say...better late than never...

Atleast now we wont have to have that sick though about O'Brien returning next year! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

cinotimz
01-31-2011, 06:08 AM
I dont know of many coaches that are worth a **** that arent confident and a bit cocky at times. If they werent, they would get eaten alive. Alot of them are arrogant as well. I wouldnt classify Vogel as being arrogant in the press conference. I would agree with Kravitz-cocky but in a good way. Now JOB, on the other hand, I often thought he came off as arrogant. And not always in a good way.

Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Larry Brown, Auerbach....you think any of those guys werent arrogant. Now granted, they have the success to draw upon, but Vogel in no way approached how these coaches handle themselves.

D-BONE
01-31-2011, 07:46 AM
So my questions come straight from Vogel's assertion that it's all on the players now.

Q1: Does this mean from the perspective of the players, the fans or both? In other words, were the players using JOB as an excuse/reason for why they struggled?

Q2: Regardless to the answer to 1, if they continue to suck - say, for example, Roy continues to play poorly - does that now mean that we sour on Roy as part of our future? Or is it more because Vogel had no real experience and therefore was the main issue?

I use Roy only as one example out of many options.

Unclebuck
01-31-2011, 08:26 AM
Because you're failing to understand that your "arrogant" claim is a knee-jerk reaction to the guy's very first press conference as a head coach.

What did you expect him to do, lay down and cry? He HAS to portray confidence, he's trying to rally his newly acquired troops.

We don't rip into 90's over it, because he hasn't told us how "extreme" or how our reactions have been "knee-jerk" for the past year. You have.

If you really were the defender of the defendable, you'd take your own advice and give the man some time before you start grading his performance.

90's agrees with me and so does Kravitz


Kravitz agrees with me

http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...ch-Jim-O-Brien

But he certainly looks and sounds the part, and during his introduction Sunday, he brandished a confidence that bordered on cocky -- the good kind of cocky.

cinotimz
01-31-2011, 08:34 AM
90's agrees with me and so does Kravitz

Im not sure its accurate to say Kravitz agrees with you. Kravitz said it was a good thing. One got the feeling when reading your posts that when you said arrogant and cocky you werent considering it to be a positive but a negative. Now if thats not the case, then so be it. But if so, then Kravitz definitely doesnt agree with you. Care to clarify?

Unclebuck
01-31-2011, 08:53 AM
He's doing the exact same thing he claimed we were doing. I don't know what you want to call it, but I think it's called being a hypocrit.

If he's going to do the exact same thing he complained we were doing, then why in the hell did we argue for so long about the situation????

I feel cheated.

I mean seriously, now I'm the one saying we shouldn't have "knee-jerk" reactions to UB. We've completely flip-flopped places.

In really couldn't care any less about how Vogel is in his press conference. I don't think that will impact his coaching either way. Sorry my somewhat offhanded remark has caused such an uproar. coaches should be judged for their coaching anyway.

cinotimz
01-31-2011, 09:22 AM
OK, so I was watching the two press confefences with someone who doesn't follow the pacers. he asked why Vogel was so cocky. I have no idea and yes he was over-the-top cocky if you ask me. I was less than impressed


In really couldn't care any less about how Vogel is in his press conference. I don't think that will impact his coaching either way. Sorry my somewhat offhanded remark has caused such an uproar. coaches should be judged for their coaching anyway.

I can see how some find this to be a bit hypocritical...especially when one considers JOB probably appeared to be "over-the -top cocky" on numerous occasions.

90'sNBARocked
01-31-2011, 10:22 AM
Ok, yes you did agree with me. Why aren't they ripping you also

Im not near as important or influential as you big guy

:)

Unclebuck
01-31-2011, 10:28 AM
I can see how some find this to be a bit hypocritical...especially when one considers JOB probably appeared to be "over-the -top cocky" on numerous occasions.

No, I was never one to complain about JOB's comments to the media.

Believe me my comments about Vogel being cocky were offhanded. I didn't use it to draw any conclusions or suggest he would be a great coach or a poor coach because of it

Sorry I even mentioned it at this point.

90'sNBARocked
01-31-2011, 10:39 AM
90's agrees with me and so does Kravitz


Kravitz agrees with me

http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...ch-Jim-O-Brien

But he certainly looks and sounds the part, and during his introduction Sunday, he brandished a confidence that bordered on cocky -- the good kind of cocky.

For the record,

I was referring to the interview Vogel did on Pacers.com with Bruno

the original press conference at Conseco, I did not see it in Vogel

Also people have a right to a difference of opinion. I haqppened to agree with UB on this one, but havent agreed with UB on all stances. I just respect peoples right to their opinion and also dont take it personnel, I really dont

Unclebuck
01-31-2011, 10:46 AM
Also people have a right to a difference of opinion. I haqppened to agree with UB on this one, but havent agreed with UB on all stances.

That is an understatement.

90'sNBARocked
01-31-2011, 10:55 AM
That is an understatement.

True

as my moms would say "take what you like and leave the rest"

That really is the point, I think I have agreed and disagreed at times, with every poster here, and like to hear different sides of opinions because it makes the conversation or debate interesting

MagicRat
01-31-2011, 11:03 AM
Coach Frank will be on the Grady and Big Joe Show around 11:15.....

Kegboy
01-31-2011, 10:01 PM
You know, one name I haven't seen in either thread is Dahntay Jones. I will be shocked if he doesn't get some pt.

:whistle:

(We really need a : patselfonback: smilie.)