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View Full Version : Too much substitution



Cherokee
01-30-2011, 01:14 AM
Like many, I'm not a fan of JOB's coaching, sub patterns, etc. It seems that too often we only have 1 or no starters on the floor long before the game is settled, and that's where we get in trouble.

Most teams sub players in with at least 2-3 starters on the floor all the time when the game is up for grabs. So, I looked at how many minutes players get for each team, and it is interesting, I think.

Here is a breakdown of how many players for each team play 30+ minutes:

6: Washington
5: Boston, New York, Atlanta, Orlando, Portland, Utah, Phoenix.
4: New Jersey, Chicago, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Charlotte, Denver, Golden State (Ellis averages 41 min), Houston, Memphis (Gay averages 40 mins), New Orleans.
3: Philly, Toronto, Miami, Minnesota, Ok City, LA Lakers, Dallas, San Antonio.
2: Detroit (17-30), Indiana (17-27), Clippers (17-28), Sacto (11-33).

It's almost as if we're trying to play platoon basketball without the talent to do it with. Sorry for such a long post (not my usual), but I'm old and remember when players who didn't have all the physical talents, training equipment, dietary advisors, etc. played a lot more minutes in a much tougher game.

Thank you for your patience.

CableKC
01-30-2011, 01:25 AM
I know that many don't agree....but I'm okay with a 8-9 man rotation. Given the pace that we would prefer to run at....I think that it allows for us to have fresh legs for the Players that we want to close out games.

Merz
01-30-2011, 01:29 AM
I'm fine with an 8-9 man rotation as well. It's just some of the 8-9 that are used is what bothers me.

beast23
01-30-2011, 01:33 AM
If we were playing a more conventional offense with a lot more of walk it up and play half court, then I'd be all for shortening the rotation or not playing subs nearly as many minutes.

But we average more possessions than nearly all teams in the league, which speaks for the pace that we play. A faster pace directly translates to more substitutions.

BRushWithDeath
01-30-2011, 02:02 AM
It absolutely should be an 8 man rotation. It is the same thing I have been saying all year. 2 PG, 3 wings, 3 bigs. Only due to foul problems do you play more that.

PG: Collison (28-30) Price (18-20)
Wing: Granger (32-35) Rush (28-32) George (28-32)
Bigs: Hibbert (28-32) McRoberts (32-35) Hansbrough (28-32)

That team may not win more games than what we are getting currently. But they wouldn't win fewer. And i would be a he'll of a lot more interested.

And James Posey should never play. Ever.

CableKC
01-30-2011, 02:07 AM
It absolutely should be an 8 man rotation. It is the same thing I have been saying all year. 2 PG, 3 wings, 3 bigs. Only due to foul problems do you play more that.

PG: Collison (28-30) Price (18-20)
Wing: Granger (32-35) Rush (28-32) George (28-32)
Bigs: Hibbert (28-32) McRoberts (32-35) Hansbrough (28-32)

That team may not win more games than what we are getting currently. But they wouldn't win fewer. And i would be a he'll of a lot more interested.

And James Posey should never play. Ever.
I think that you should add in Foster and Dunleavy into that mix by shaving off about 20 combined minutes from both the Wing and PF/C ( Bigs ) minutes....I think that the both of them can and do contribute to the success of this Team.

BRushWithDeath
01-30-2011, 02:12 AM
I think that you should add in Foster and Dunleavy into that mix by shaving off about 20 combined minutes from both the Wing and PF/C ( Bigs ) minutes....I think that the both of them can and do contribute to the success of this Team.

Those two can play due to foul trouble. And with Paul, Tyler, Hibbert, and Josh there will be foul trouble. But I don't want either of them to be a part of the regular rotation. All things being equal, neither should play over the younger guys unless it is a necessity. They just aren't good enough to warrant reducing the minutes our young guys are on the floor.

Cherokee
01-30-2011, 02:28 AM
If we were playing a more conventional offense with a lot more of walk it up and play half court, then I'd be all for shortening the rotation or not playing subs nearly as many minutes.

But we average more possessions than nearly all teams in the league, which speaks for the pace that we play. A faster pace directly translates to more substitutions.


If you look at the NBA Power Rankings at NBA.com, the league average for possessions is 94.7 per game -- Pacers average 96.9 per game. That isn't that much difference. Add to that we're only 17th in the league in scoring, and there remains no reason for us not to play our starters more minutes (IMO).