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View Full Version : Mike Dunleavy and Jeff Foster



IU_sears
01-29-2011, 10:46 PM
Haven't really seen this discussed in depth on the forum and thought I would mention it. There is no doubt that TPTB love Foster and Dunleavy. While their bloated contracts come off of the books in the offseason I can still see them re-signing with the Pacers at a lower number. No one is going to pay Dunleavy what he has been paid the last few seasons, not even the Pacers. Dunleavy seems to be happy playing in Indiana with our easy going fan base compared to what he experience w/ the GSW. He has recently had a daughter as well. I can see Dunleavy signing a reasonable contract and sticking with the Pacers. Jeff is either going to retire or re-sign with the Pacers if his contract is allowed to expire with the Pacers. Unless Foster is traded I cannot see him signing with any other team if he chooses not to retire. What does everyone think will play out here?

Please don't train wreck the thread by saying Dunleavy stinks, etc. I am simply asking if people think that Foster/Dun will be back next season. With their huge contracts off the books and signed to value contracts it will still allow the Pacers the financial flexibility they need to rebuild like the Thunder have by stockpiling picks. Thoughts???

beast23
01-29-2011, 11:09 PM
It's not a very popular opinion, but it is a possibility. But it would be really awkward for the Pacers to deal with them during the summer. First off, in order to be able to have the maximum amount of cap space available for signing free agents, the Pacers would have to "renounce" them. Then after signing whatever free agents we want (or can) we would then return to dealing with Dunleavy and Foster.

Taterhead
01-29-2011, 11:15 PM
Why resign the same guys if you're trying to rebuild the team? The only roster spots that will be open are those that belonged to those free agents.

I guess I just really don't understand the logic behind that. We are supposed to be improving the talent level.

IU_sears
01-29-2011, 11:22 PM
TJ Ford will open up a roster spot and I believe Solomon Jones is a free agent after the season... that is two roster spots open if we re-sign Dunleavy and Foster. Lastly, we aren't renouncing their rights, they are simply free agents.

If people think that the free cap space will allow us to sign a top flight free agent they are wrong. The only thing cap space will provide us is flexibility to facilitate an unfair trade in our favor because we can absorb bad contracts and get picks as sweetners.

CableKC
01-29-2011, 11:54 PM
If we didn't have Posey, then yes....I'd be okay with re-signing Dunleavy....but since we do....I think that we should take or make the best offer that we can make with a Dunleavy+1st trade offer while his Trade Value is at it's peak.

The reality is that with Granger/BRush/Posey on the books for next season....Dunleavy is the only thing standing in front of PG getting consistent minutes to develop next season. I want PG to get a guaranteed # of minutes next season.

Taterhead
01-29-2011, 11:57 PM
TJ Ford will open up a roster spot and I believe Solomon Jones is a free agent after the season... that is two roster spots open if we re-sign Dunleavy and Foster. Lastly, we aren't renouncing their rights, they are simply free agents.

If people think that the free cap space will allow us to sign a top flight free agent they are wrong. The only thing cap space will provide us is flexibility to facilitate an unfair trade in our favor because we can absorb bad contracts and get picks as sweetners.

2 roster spots? We need more than that, that will only cover our draft picks. And if we are looking to make lopsided trades then we need those roster spots even more.

Nobody said anything about a top flight free agent. But I sure hope we can upgrade over Foster and Dunleavy.


Again I ask, why resign 2 players who have proven they aren't the answer?

Smoothdave1
01-30-2011, 12:05 AM
I could see both coming back, albeit for much cheaper. I could see Foster sign a 1 or 2 year deal for the vet minimum. I thought that I read or heard somewhere that he wanted to play a little longer so that his kids could remember him playing in the NBA? Dunleavy could come back for maybe a 3 year/9 million or so? I could see Dunleavy moving into a role similar to a guy like Quentin Richardson in Orlando as he would provide both depth and leadership. As was mentioned, Dunleavy has settled into Indy and spends a fair amount of time here in the summer. Foster also lives in Indy year round and doesn't seem to have any desire to leave the Pacers or Indy.

graphic-er
01-30-2011, 12:08 AM
I'm okay with resigning Foster to a minimum contract so he can retire a Pacer. Besides he can still contribute some, and you always need depth at the big man positions. I have no need for Dunleavy. There is an evident reason his teams never make the playoffs.

IU_sears
01-30-2011, 12:12 AM
Josh McRoberts is also a FA, that makes 3 extra roster spots.

I am in no way saying I would want to re-sign Dunleavy or Foster, but I would bet a good amount of money both of these players are back on the roster next year.

There is no guarantee that second round picks make the roster either... Magnum Rolle???

CableKC
01-30-2011, 12:18 AM
I'm okay with resigning Foster to a minimum contract so he can retire a Pacer. Besides he can still contribute some, and you always need depth at the big man positions. I have no need for Dunleavy. There is an evident reason his teams never make the playoffs.
Why? Is it cuz he's cursed?

It's not his fault that we suck.

beast23
01-30-2011, 12:19 AM
Why resign the same guys if you're trying to rebuild the team? The only roster spots that will be open are those that belonged to those free agents. I guess I just really don't understand the logic behind that. We are supposed to be improving the talent level


Why re-sign them? Oh, I don't know... perhaps it has something to do with having the 15 best players available to you (draftees, free agents, present rostered players) on the team.

Do you really think that the Pacers will have 15 players on their roster for the 2011-2012 season that are better than Dunleavy and Foster? If so, you are terribly misguided.

If you want to improve the quality of the team, you are looking for the best 15 warm bodies that you are capable of attaining/retaining.

One thing I would suggest for this summer is that the Pacers attempt to open up a couple of extra roster spots through the trades, free agent signings and sign-and-trades that they do. At this point in time, they should have 4 roster spots available: Dunleavy, Foster, Ford, SJones. They won't get much out of their second round pick this year. If they were to sign two free agents and their first round draft choice, they would still have one open slot.

Edit:
Oops... forgot McRoberts. Make that 5 open roster slots.

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 12:19 AM
Why? Is it cuz he's cursed?

It's not his fault that we suck.

3rd overall pick should contributed and should be a franchise level player should at least be able to play defense

BringJackBack
01-30-2011, 12:21 AM
I'm also holding out hope that we trade Rush or Lance plus an expiring for a player, so that could open up a roster spot.

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 12:29 AM
I'm also holding out hope that we trade Rush or Lance plus an expiring for a player, so that could open up a roster spot.

whats the point of this we need Rush he is our best defender

BringJackBack
01-30-2011, 12:31 AM
whats the point of this we need Rush he is our best defender

Sorry ahead of time for being so hypothetical, but if we traded for Iggy we'd have a better defender plus George who is a little better than adequate himself.

Plus this clears us of some of the bad PR and Rush has had three years now "turn it on" and he hasn't. He's a fourth wing now.

Kegboy
01-30-2011, 12:35 AM
While I would very much like neither to come back, I'd say it's a fair bet at least one will. However, if Larry were to leave, neither would be re-signed.

Unclebuck
01-30-2011, 12:40 AM
If I were a betting man I don't think either will be playing for the pacers next season

PacerGuy
01-30-2011, 12:42 AM
If I were a betting man I don't think either will be playing for the pacers next season

What is your bet about playing for IN post trade deadline?

beast23
01-30-2011, 12:43 AM
Again I ask, why resign 2 players who have proven they aren't the answer?I look at your moniker, and can only shake my head.

I would say that like about 13 other players, all Dunleavy and Foster have proven is that they are not the answer... alone.

Again, you go after the 15 best players that you are capable of getting your hands on. After signing a couple of free agents and our first round pick, if we still have ample cap space left without cutting into that portion that might be intended for summer 2012, then if Dunleavy and/or Foster is the best available to us at their respective positions, then it would be wise to attempt to go after one or both of them.

Presently, Dunleavy is playing better than MANY players on this team. We are weak in our frontcourt, but Foster is one of the better defenders we have.

If we acquire players such that our depth would render them obsolete, or not worth the amount that would have to be paid in consideration of their position on that depth chart, then fine... let them go and never look back.

If not, and we have room, then bring one or both back on the cheap.

vnzla81
01-30-2011, 12:44 AM
Why?

AesopRockOn
01-30-2011, 12:48 AM
If we don't trade Jeff, he probably says "Thanks." and retires.

If we don't trade Mike (I can't believe he doesn't have some value as a $10 million expiring.), I see a long negotiation process where he asks for more than we should give and just walks.

xIndyFan
01-30-2011, 12:49 AM
What is your bet about playing for IN post trade deadline?

i hope dunleavy will be gone, because it would mean the pacers have a new PF. nothing against mike, he just seems the best player with an expiring.

CableKC
01-30-2011, 12:55 AM
3rd overall pick should contributed and should be a franchise level player should at least be able to play defense
Wow...bad luck that the Pacers happen to trade for the 1st ever 3rd overall pick that didn't pan out to be a Franchise level player.

J/K...sort of.

Dunleavy turned out to be an "okay Starter for a Lottery Team that is better suited to be a better 6th Man on a better Team" Player....it's not his fault that the Warriors reached for him and overpaid him when it was time to extend him.

CircleCity3318
01-30-2011, 01:13 AM
Well they have both been on the team the past few seasons now and have we gotten anywhere with them? We haven't we need athleticism and more talent desperately and neither of them give that to us. Why should we keep banging our heads against the door with the same players? It is time for a change my friends.

Hicks
01-30-2011, 01:45 AM
I'll always be okay with having Jeff Foster around, but I'm ready to move on from Mike Dunleavy.

Trophy
01-30-2011, 01:49 AM
I'd be happy to have Jeff finish out the season as a Pacer and then call it career after this season or we re-sign him to a reasonable 2 year contract to help Roy out.

If not that, I'd be happy if the new coach would name him an assistant.

I just hope Jeff doesn't go to another team.

BRushWithDeath
01-30-2011, 02:06 AM
I will have an extremely hard time supporting the organization if either of these guys are on the team next year.

CableKC
01-30-2011, 02:11 AM
I will have an extremely hard time supporting the organization if either of these guys are on the team next year.
I can understand Dunleavy...but I don't see anything wrong with re-signing Foster.

We will still need some depth at the backup Center spots. At his current age....I think that he'd better fit the role that Solo fits right now....the 3rd Center in our rotation...specifically behind Hibbert and whatever other Backup Center that we sign.

Mark
01-30-2011, 03:53 AM
Dunleavy is a fine player and probably the average result of a third overall pick, maybe very slightly disappointing. It's not like the guy's Stromile Swift or something.

I found this kind of interesting when I looked at it. I looked up all the top three picks from 2000 til now. Then I picked the most disappointing of the top three each year.

2000- Stromile Swift (2) (or Darius Miles at 3)
2001-Kwame Brown (1) (or Tyson Chandler at 2)
2002- Jay Williams (2) (Dunleavy? at 3)
2003- Darko Milicic (2)
2004- Emeka Okafor (2)
2005- Marvin Williams (2)
2006- Adam Morrison (3)
2007- Greg Oden (1)
2008- Beasley (2)
2009- Hasheem Thabeet (2)
2010- Evan Turner (2) (maybe?)

I'm just saying that Dunleavy has been a solid player for a lot of years, and is more a victim of circumstance than anything else. He's built to be a sixth man, but has never been truly played that way.

And I definitely think Foster can still contribute, and he was actually a big contributor on some of the great pre-brawl Pacer teams. Which were as good as any in the league. Just like any other player he needs the right mix around him.

PaceBalls
01-30-2011, 06:11 AM
Mike is a good player, he is a throwback player, I can totally see him kickin *** in the ABA. I love that about him. But the fact is we have a lot of 2/3 players, who happen to be younger with alot more potential. Maybe not the brains and instincts but way more potential. So it's not a question of whether Mike is good enough to come back, it is more a question of whether we want him taking minutes from Danny, Paul, Brandon, Lance, Dahntay, James P, AJ, and whoever else they add in the draft.
They would need to trade some of those guys to justify bringing Mike back who is going to be 30 next year... do we want to give up on the youth at that position in order to bring back an aging slightly above average player?

As for Jeff, yes every time we keep Jeff. Especially with Roy who is questionable at best, or so it seems lately, and the lack of any type of consistency at the center position, in stark contrast to the Mike D situation. It's not like we have some young bigs our dumb coach won't play at his position... /cough McRoberts. But that benching is in favor of James Posey, which is so incredibly ridiculous I don't think I need to go on about that...

Dece
01-30-2011, 08:36 AM
Dun is not a good player. No championship contending team would use Dun in their playoff rotation. Maybe he'd be useful as an 8-10 mpg player on a real quality team, but when playoff rotations shortened he'd be the first and easiest player to drop time from.

I don't really understand why he gets so much love on this board. He has never done anything particularly good in his entire NBA career. His teams, year in and year out, are average at best, more frequently being substantially worse than average. He has never helped his team get to a playoff game.

Dun apologists will quickly claim that it isn't his fault that he's been on bad teams, but that's clearly a hollow defense if you want to claim he's a good player. A good player who starts and/or gets 30 minutes a night for this many years gets his team into an 8 seed at least... I mean honestly, it doesn't even take a winning record to get an 8 seed in the East.

Taterhead
01-30-2011, 10:54 AM
I look at your moniker, and can only shake my head.

I would say that like about 13 other players, all Dunleavy and Foster have proven is that they are not the answer... alone.

Again, you go after the 15 best players that you are capable of getting your hands on. After signing a couple of free agents and our first round pick, if we still have ample cap space left without cutting into that portion that might be intended for summer 2012, then if Dunleavy and/or Foster is the best available to us at their respective positions, then it would be wise to attempt to go after one or both of them.

Presently, Dunleavy is playing better than MANY players on this team. We are weak in our frontcourt, but Foster is one of the better defenders we have.

If we acquire players such that our depth would render them obsolete, or not worth the amount that would have to be paid in consideration of their position on that depth chart, then fine... let them go and never look back.

If not, and we have room, then bring one or both back on the cheap.

Yeah well if either of those guys are any good at all they should get MLE type deals from other teams, and that's too much.

D-BONE
01-30-2011, 11:05 AM
I'll take Dun ON THE CHEAP if we miraculously acquire an elite level talent or two where he can be the fifth starter or sixth man. Note, at least one elite level guy will have to be a serious defender to hide MDJ's on-ball defensive shortcomings.

The point about the glut of players we have that can play his position is legit in this discussion. I think that makes him expendable if he returns something of value, which I'd be all for.

Foster I'd take on a cheap short-term deal, but if he's ready to retire, go for it.

luis3ep
01-30-2011, 11:47 AM
Most people don't notice the little things Mike does. He is skilled enough to play point guard, which is why you see him making nice passes, great vision. He has a really nice shot, sometimes it goes in, sometimes it doesn't.. what do u expect, 100% fg? He has the highest basketball IQ by far on the pacers, always making nice cuts and runs. Also gets a decent amount of rebounds for his position..because unlike other guards, when Dunleavy isn't shooting the ball, he goes for boards to help out. He is a really under-appreciated player, and it's a shame people judge him more by the amount of money he is making instead of the skills he has. Sorry he can't be the perfect all around defender, aggressive type scorer that everyone wishes he was.. he makes the most out of the abilities he was born with, and tries every game.. i'd rather pay that guy, than the bum just happy to be in the NBA.

Pacerized
01-30-2011, 11:48 AM
I'd like to have both of them at the right price perhaps 2-3 mil per year for 2 years. We're not going to find a better backup center or wing player at that price. I keep reading about people wanting Foster to retire but I don't see why. For 2-3 mil the best you can hope for in a young backup center is another Solo. If you'd rather have Solo as the backup center then Foster then I don't think I can reason with that. If Dun thinks he can get more money elsewhere then I'd just say good luck to him. Backup wing players are a dime a dozen but centers are another issue. Both of these guys need to wait until we sign whoever we're going to as free agents. I don't think we'll know what the status of Foster and Dun will be until very near the start of training camp and that's if there's no lock out.

pacer4ever
01-30-2011, 11:49 AM
Dunleavy is a fine player and probably the average result of a third overall pick, maybe very slightly disappointing. It's not like the guy's Stromile Swift or something.

I found this kind of interesting when I looked at it. I looked up all the top three picks from 2000 til now. Then I picked the most disappointing of the top three each year.

2000- Stromile Swift (2) (or Darius Miles at 3)
2001-Kwame Brown (1) (or Tyson Chandler at 2)
2002- Jay Williams (2) (Dunleavy? at 3)
2003- Darko Milicic (2)
2004- Emeka Okafor (2)
2005- Marvin Williams (2)
2006- Adam Morrison (3)
2007- Greg Oden (1)
2008- Beasley (2)
2009- Hasheem Thabeet (2)
2010- Evan Turner (2) (maybe?)

I'm just saying that Dunleavy has been a solid player for a lot of years, and is more a victim of circumstance than anything else. He's built to be a sixth man, but has never been truly played that way.

And I definitely think Foster can still contribute, and he was actually a big contributor on some of the great pre-brawl Pacer teams. Which were as good as any in the league. Just like any other player he needs the right mix around him.

Beasley is not a bust

Jay Williams wasnt ethier he was a good player who just got hurt doing something stupid.

NuffSaid
01-30-2011, 07:22 PM
My hope is we make the playoffs and Foster decides to retire after the season. I doubt he will, but I'm hopeful only because I'd like to see him retire w/the Pacers and not with some other team.

As for Dunleavy, I guess it depends on two things:

1) if he accepts the vet minimum; and,

2) if the Pacers don't find another SF/SG whose better at moving without the ball.

My guess is they'll work Lance Stephenson into the role at SG and let Dunleavy go at season's end. Overall, I wouldn't mind seeing Dunleavy back next season but as the 6th Man, and I certainly would mind seeing Foster return.

Pacersalltheway10
01-30-2011, 07:48 PM
I hope Jeff will just retire. I hope dunleavy is traded or let go.

dgranger17
01-30-2011, 11:01 PM
I'll take both back in a heartbeat. If they both want to sign for 2 years $4 million, then I'll be thrilled. Jeff can sign for 10 years $20 million if he wants.

With Vogel coaching this team, solid veterans with wonderful leadership qualities are major assets.

Dynasty

Sookie
01-30-2011, 11:08 PM
Am I the only one who likes Dun, and wouldn't mind him sticking around? Not to play 30+ minutes mind you, but you know..20 minutes and the occassional hilarious chat. :D

BringJackBack
01-30-2011, 11:10 PM
Am I the only one who likes Dun, and wouldn't mind him sticking around? Not to play 30+ minutes mind you, but you know..20 minutes and the occassional hilarious chat. :D

I certainly wouldn't be upset if he was brought back, but overall I think Dahntay and Rush can take those 20 minutes and handle them well.

joeyd
01-30-2011, 11:28 PM
I'd agree that Dunleavy's minutes are replaceable. However, we'd be in bad shape if Jeff was not here. Unless we get a better big next year, we'd be in bad shape next year as well if Jeff was not here. I just don't see Roy being able to turn on a switch and suddenly be a consistently great center in the next couple of months. I hope I'm wrong, but if not, it wouldn't be logical to part with Foster, whom I think would be happy with one more year at a reduced rate of compensation if he could retire a Pacer. Roy has to improve both as a physical player as well as psychologically, and has to become more of a student of the game. When he can consistently avoid picking up 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes of a game, he will have progressed quite a bit in that latter respect.

kester99
01-30-2011, 11:33 PM
I think Dunleavy is severely "misunderestimated" by a lot of fans. I don't think TPTB make that mistake, so I wouldn't be surprised or upset to see him back. Less money in the deal would be good.

joeyd
01-30-2011, 11:35 PM
I think Dunleavy is severely "misunderestimated" by a lot of fans. I don't think TPTB make that mistake, so I wouldn't be surprised or upset to see him back. Less money in the deal would be good.

I think you are right. I said his minutes are replaceable, but when he's on, he can carry a team when the first or second option hasn't done so well.