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View Full Version : Ric Bucher on our next Coach



Shelleyley
01-28-2011, 02:19 PM
Jon (Indy)

If / when the Pacers do remove O'Brien as the coach who do you think they will try to go after? Mark Jackson? Mike Brown? Any rising coaching prospects that would want to try and coach this mess?

Ric Bucher (1:14 PM)

I hear that both O'Brien and David Morway could be gone in a clean sweep and that Kevin Pritchard is high on their list to take over as GM. Does KP lure Nate McMillan away from the Blazers? That would be a crazy two-run homer for the Pacers if it happened.

__________________________________________________ ________

Interasante!

Hicks
01-28-2011, 02:30 PM
That would be interesting.

If I'm not mistaken, and I believe at least some of this is from things I've picked up on in private conversation, no on the board, but it's usually David Morway who ends up not getting along with someone else in the franchise (Mel Daniels, Daniel Craig, even David Kahn when he was here, and am I forgetting anybody?). Maybe someone (Bird, Simon) is tired of that.

Also, isn't Nate McMillan running the most half-court, slow offense in the league? If so, talk about your pendulum swings. I think fans would grow to hate him for being too far on the other end of the spectrum from Jim O'Brien.

pacer4ever
01-28-2011, 02:31 PM
this would be my ideal scenerio

BPump33
01-28-2011, 02:32 PM
If the plan is for Bird to stay and KP to come in as GM, then how uncomfortable is David Morway right now? I haven't really been paying attention to them at games lately, but hasn't Morway still been attending as well?

I still think Larry/Morway/OB are all gone after the season, but I would love for Bird to stay and bring on KP.

Mr_Smith
01-28-2011, 02:33 PM
I would love for Nate Mcmillan to come in here

graphic-er
01-28-2011, 02:35 PM
In other words Ric Bucher doesn't know anything and just though KP is on the inside track because of the west coast Road trip?

vnzla81
01-28-2011, 02:37 PM
In other words Ric Bucher doesn't know anything and just though KP is on the inside track because of the west coast Road trip?

He is been in the fieldhouse lately.

Edit: by the way I would love that idea.

Speed
01-28-2011, 02:40 PM
Is McMillan thought of as a player coach, disciplinarian, what? Anyone know?

Slow half court offense, I don't really care as much as wanting to see good execution. The group now doesn't get fast break points unless its DC coast to coast anyway.

Unclebuck
01-28-2011, 02:42 PM
Is McMillan thought of as a player coach, disciplinarian, what? Anyone know?

Slow half court offense, I don't really care as much as wanting to see good execution. The group now doesn't get fast break points unless its DC coast to coast anyway.

he's a disciplinarian. More of an old school type of guy and coach. Often times a little too honest about players in the media.

Good coach though.

I would put him on par with Mike brown and if Prichard and Nate would work better together than Prich and Mike Brown then I'm fine with either

Trophy
01-28-2011, 02:46 PM
Ric Bucher actually knows what he's talking about.

That would be great. Bird as the president, Pritchard as the GM, and McMillan as the head coach.

I like David Morway and he's very dedicated to making this team better as Bird, but it might be good to bring in someone new with Bird.

grace
01-28-2011, 02:46 PM
Ric Bucher (1:14 PM)

I hear that both O'Brien and David Morway could be gone in a clean sweep and that Kevin Pritchard is high on their list to take over as GM. Does KP lure Nate McMillan away from the Blazers? That would be a crazy two-run homer for the Pacers if it happened.

A clean sweep would include getting rid of Larry. If that plus all of the above happened I'm sure Kegboy would give serious consideration to getting season tickets again. There's even a chance I might be talked into joining him.

Unclebuck
01-28-2011, 02:46 PM
Oh no, wait it isn't going to work, look what I found here. he likes small ball. OK who is next.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/basketball/nba/seattle.preview/

By John Hollinger

Managing the whole affair is one of the league's most underrated coaches, Nate MacMillan. The former Sonic player masterfully uses small-ball lineups to throw opponents off guard and got the Sonics to play respectable defense last year despite a paucity of athleticism. He'll have to be on top of his game once again to navigate the Sonics back to the postseason.

PaceBalls
01-28-2011, 02:48 PM
he's a disciplinarian. More of an old school type of guy and coach. Often times a little too honest about players in the media.

Good coach though.

I would put him on par with Mike brown and if Prichard and Nate would work better together than Prich and Mike Brown then I'm fine with either

Oh noes! We don't need a guy like NATE! He will destroy our players fragile self confidence with all his brutal honesty. We need a warm, loving, fuzzy, care bear of a coach that will help our players grow into caring men.

RWB
01-28-2011, 02:49 PM
he's a disciplinarian. More of an old school type of guy and coach. Often times a little too honest about players in the media.

Good coach though.

I would put him on par with Mike brown and if Prichard and Nate would work better together than Prich and Mike Brown then I'm fine with either

And this absolutely sounds like a Bird kind of guy. Bird always touted Bill Fitch as the best coach he ever played for and Fitch was good at making guys work on their game.

pizza guy
01-28-2011, 02:50 PM
OK, I thought that the whole Pritchard thing was smoke and mirrors stemming from that West Coast trip, but I'm wondering now. Especially with vnzla saying that Pritch has been in Conseco too. I would be ecstatic if KP was brought in. And I know that Bucher is only speculating that Pritchard might bring McMillan, but I'd also be greatly in favor of that as well.

This could be an interesting off-season with all the potential change (GM, coach, free agents/trades).

Unclebuck
01-28-2011, 02:52 PM
And this absolutely sounds like a Bird kind of guy. Bird always touted Bill Fitch as the best coach he ever played for and Fitch was good at making guys work on their game.

You do realize that was an exact discription that could have applied to Jim O'Brien. Jim is old school, too honest with the media, discriplinarian

beast23
01-28-2011, 02:52 PM
he's a disciplinarian. More of an old school type of guy and coach. Often times a little too honest about players in the media.
O-U-C-H. If that is the case, I'll pass on MacMillan. We've had way to much of that over the last 3-1/2 years.

Unclebuck
01-28-2011, 02:57 PM
O-U-C-H. If that is the case, I'll pass on MacMillan. We've had way to much of that over the last 3-1/2 years.

I don't follow Nate nearly as closely as Jim. But Nate had said a few things in the media that I thought were too open and honest (generally he is well liked by the media) but I hardly think that should rule him out and who knows if on a day to day basis he is too honest, probably not. (secret: I also was including the too honest with the media to tweak those in this forum)

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 02:58 PM
i hope Pritchard will never be GM again

wintermute
01-28-2011, 03:05 PM
In other words Ric Bucher doesn't know anything and just though KP is on the inside track because of the west coast Road trip?

More likely than not...

Pritchard didn't hire McMillan. McMillan was already in place before KP became GM. I've not heard anything to suggest they were especially tight.

Maybe we'll have a shot at Nate, maybe not. But I don't think Pritchard will have much to do with it.

Kegboy
01-28-2011, 03:05 PM
It's a logical supposition on Bucher's part, but that's all it is, especially if he's basing it simply on Larry being nice and giving Pritchard something to do when asked.

However, UB is completely right that we need a GM and coach that'll work well together. That's what I said when we hired Jimmy, at least he and Larry were on the same page. Of course, any notion of that went out the window when we signed Dahntay Jones, but whatever.

presto123
01-28-2011, 03:06 PM
We want Pritch!!!!........we want Pritch!!!!

Trophy
01-28-2011, 03:10 PM
In other words Ric Bucher doesn't know anything and just though KP is on the inside track because of the west coast Road trip?

I like Bucher than John Hollinger or Chad Ford.

Bucher actually has sources that clearly shows what teams are doing.

Hollinger and Ford make up crap and about us, it comes to Danny being available. Bird's very relentless of dealing any of our core guys. Especially Danny and he hasn't even mentioned anything about him.

KP is a new face traveling with this team so that might actually be worth starting a rumor about.

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 03:10 PM
We want Pritch!!!!........we want Pritch!!!!
why?
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/portland.htm

Trader Joe
01-28-2011, 03:15 PM
I'm sort of the opinion that Kevin Pritchard **** the bed in Portland. I'm not saying he deserved to be fired the way he was, but this guy ain't some savant of a GM with rings coming out his bum hole.

Kegboy
01-28-2011, 03:16 PM
why?
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/portland.htm

Those first two names are pretty good reasons. What, would you rather they were Randy Foye and Tyrus Thomas?

King Phoenix
01-28-2011, 03:20 PM
I wouldn't mnd if these changes happened. Plus from my observations, these guys he coaches are well disciplined, play well as an unit, and his best players are leaders on and off the court. He also is a good young player coach. Sounds good to me! One more thing he also is used to small market teams. Plus he has coached and been sucessful in the western conference so I'm pretty sure he can help us beat teams like the cave and nets. But this is jus my opinion.

BringJackBack
01-28-2011, 03:23 PM
P.S. Nate is in conversation for coach of the year again.

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 03:28 PM
Those first two names are pretty good reasons. What, would you rather they were Randy Foye and Tyrus Thomas?
there are two names in all teams

BringJackBack
01-28-2011, 03:29 PM
there are two names in all teams

Yeah okay..

wintermute
01-28-2011, 03:36 PM
Those first two names are pretty good reasons. What, would you rather they were Randy Foye and Tyrus Thomas?

Well, arguably Portland would rather have Randy Foye now than be stuck with Roy's knees (and contract).

LA_Confidential
01-28-2011, 03:37 PM
there are two names in all teams

What about Batum, Mathews, Mills, All Good young players. Even Rudy is good.

Andre Miller and Camby have been solid their entire careers.

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 03:38 PM
i am prefer for example David Kahn with two names( Love , Beasley).

LA_Confidential
01-28-2011, 03:39 PM
Well, arguably Portland would rather have Randy Foye now than be stuck with Roy's knees (and contract).

Brandon Roy proved to be worlds better than Randy Foye and a bunch of others, so imho he earned his contract. Injuries are always unpredictable so you cant be upset either way.

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 03:40 PM
What about Batum, Mathews, Mills, All Good young players. Even Rudy is good.

Andre Miller and Camby have been solid their entire careers. such players there is also in all teams, even better

Kegboy
01-28-2011, 03:41 PM
Well, arguably Portland would rather have Randy Foye now than be stuck with Roy's knees (and contract).

Yes, I'm sure Portland fans would be happy to trade away the last 5 years of them actually being good again for Randy Foye.

Justin Tyme
01-28-2011, 03:47 PM
Often times a little too honest about players in the media.


That sounds all too familiar!

LA_Confidential
01-28-2011, 03:48 PM
such players there is also in all teams, even better

So what point are you trying to make against Kevin Pritchard? The Blazers are a very good team who were built to be good now and in the future. Brandon Roy being injured isn't an indictment against Pritchard.

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 03:52 PM
So what point are you trying to make against Kevin Pritchard? The Blazers are a very good team who were built to be good now and in the future. Brandon Roy being injured isn't an indictment against Pritchard.
http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=60769

Sparhawk
01-28-2011, 03:52 PM
Holy Schnikees, look at the money Greg Oden makes. Wish I got paid to do nothing but get injured. I feel bad for Oden, but damn the top picks get too much too early.

wintermute
01-28-2011, 03:56 PM
Yes, I'm sure Portland fans would be happy to trade away the last 5 years of them actually being good again for Randy Foye.

I know and agree. But blame for Roy's extension is usually pinned on Pritchard. That's something that potential employers (like the Pacers) should consider.

Justin Tyme
01-28-2011, 03:57 PM
That would be great. Bird as the president, Pritchard as the GM, and McMillan as the head coach.


Who is going to be the numbers guy in that trio? Morway now, Penn with Pritchard at Portland.

I'm not sold on Pritchard at the present time. Maybe someone should start a thread on who should be the next GM. The following are some prospective possible GM's

Mark Warkentien
Kiki Vanderweghe
Randy Pfund
David Griffin
Dennis Lindsey
Jeff weltman
Ronnie Lester

aaronb
01-28-2011, 03:57 PM
Well, arguably Portland would rather have Randy Foye now than be stuck with Roy's knees (and contract).



I'm sure insurance is paying Roy's salary.

Since86
01-28-2011, 04:04 PM
I'm sure insurance is paying Roy's salary.

Insurance only pays their salary if they are phsyically unable to play for the season. Roy was being interviewed the other night, and he said he was looking forward to playing again this season.

That means Portland is paying him.

EDIT: And why do we assume that Pritch just gave Roy the contract, and it was his fault? Is it possible that the owner gave the orders that he wanted Roy to remain a Blazer?

Justin Tyme
01-28-2011, 04:05 PM
I'm sure insurance is paying Roy's salary.


I wouldn't bet the farm on your being sure. IIRC, there is a time that has to pass from a players last game played b4 insurance starts paying the salary. I'm probably wrong, but I was thinking a year.

aaronb
01-28-2011, 04:10 PM
EDIT: And why do we assume that Pritch just gave Roy the contract, and it was his fault? Is it possible that the owner gave the orders that he wanted Roy to remain a Blazer?


That is a valid question.

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 04:15 PM
Those first two names are pretty good reasons. What, would you rather they were Randy Foye and Tyrus Thomas?
Randy Foye and Tyrus Thomas??????
http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/kevin_pritchard.htm

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 04:18 PM
KP in best case avarage gm

aaronb
01-28-2011, 04:19 PM
Insurance only pays their salary if they are phsyically unable to play for the season. Roy was being interviewed the other night, and he said he was looking forward to playing again this season.

That means Portland is paying him.

EDIT: And why do we assume that Pritch just gave Roy the contract, and it was his fault? Is it possible that the owner gave the orders that he wanted Roy to remain a Blazer?

This is the best I could find on the subject.

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2010/11/blazers_president_larry_miller_1.html

Current President said that the organization knew about the knees prior to signing him. Would absolutely lead me to believe they are carrying insurance on his contract.

Ownership and the higher-ups would most certainly have to sign off on the deal. Even if it was Pritchard's idea to sign him.

You could easily draw the conclusion that Pritchard walked away because he didn't want the extension to happen?

pathil275
01-28-2011, 04:22 PM
You can't blame him for picking Oden over Durant, most GMs would have picked the same way. That Oden injured his knee badly (twice? three times?) is bad luck. So is Roy's injury. You could argue that it was foolish to give him that extension, but I am sure he consulted his medical staff and the risk of Roy getting injured was not high enough to let Roy walk away in free agency.

I'd say Portland would be a contender with Roy and Oden healthy. The surrounding cast is deep and good, I give Pritchard credit for that.

BringJackBack
01-28-2011, 04:24 PM
It would be really nice to get an interview on Pritch from Wells to hear his point of view. Pretty sure TPTB are trying to keep these things on the down-low though.

xBulletproof
01-28-2011, 04:26 PM
I'm sure insurance is paying Roy's salary.

Insurance paying it doesn't help the salary cap situation, if that's even the case. You make some crazy excuses for people you like, and ignore everything for people you don't.

As for the question asked about it not being Pritchards fault ....

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-blazersinjuries11810


When the Blazers started talks on Roy’s contract extension in the summer of 2009, franchise owner Paul Allen pushed for multiple contingencies to protect the organization. Nevertheless, then-GM Kevin Pritchard couldn’t handle the criticism in the Portland public and media, and eventually caved with an $82 million extension with only limited non-guaranteed money in the contract’s final year. The Blazers should’ve challenged Roy to try restricted free agency, but they didn’t have the stomach to fight that PR battle.

I'm not nearly as high on Pritchard as most people. I don't believe for 1 second that Larry Bird would cave to media pressure. I really do want Nate McMillan however.

Since86
01-28-2011, 04:31 PM
I don't know the situation, but Allen would have to sign off on the deal before anything was ever signed.

Pritchard lasted another year before Allen fired him.

I'm not trying to hand out excuses, I'm just trying to assign blame to all parties involved rather than just one man.

xBulletproof
01-28-2011, 04:32 PM
You can't blame him for picking Oden over Durant, most GMs would have picked the same way. That Oden injured his knee badly (twice? three times?) is bad luck.

It's not bad luck, it's an existing condition that causes problems for normal people, let alone abnormally tall human beings trying to push their bodies to the limit. Why does everyone ignore that?

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showpost.php?p=1147797&postcount=33

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 04:33 PM
You can't blame him for picking Oden over Durant, most GMs would have picked the same way. That Oden injured his knee badly (twice? three times?) is bad luck. So is Roy's injury. You could argue that it was foolish to give him that extension, but I am sure he consulted his medical staff and the risk of Roy getting injured was not high enough to let Roy walk away in free agency.

I'd say Portland would be a contender with Roy and Oden healthy. The surrounding cast is deep and good, I give Pritchard credit for that.
Of the last 4 Blazers GM's the most successful have been the ones with business acumen rather than basketball scouts. Whitsitt and Patterson were business gurus and hired basketball scouts to evaluate talent. Whitsitt built great teams and drafted well and Patterson drafted Roy and Aldridge. While Nash and Pritchard were basketball scouts that turned into busts as GM's. So, I’m happy to see another business guru as our GM
---
In the 2006 off-season, the team fired Nash, giving Patterson the dual role of GM and president; Pritchard was promoted to assistant general manager where he was involved in the decision making for four significant trades which have been held to be favorable to the Blazers:
A deal prior to the 2006 NBA Draft which sent Sebastian Telfair and Theo Ratliff to the Boston Celtics in exchange for the #7 pick in that year's draft and Raef LaFrentz.
A draft-day deal which sent Tyrus Thomas (the team's draft choice at #4) and Viktor Khryapa to the Chicago Bulls in exchange for the #2 pick, LaMarcus Aldridge
A second draft-day deal which sent the #7 pick in the draft, Randy Foye, along with cash considerations, to the Minnesota Timberwolves in exchange for the #6 pick, Brandon Roy. Roy would end up being named Rookie of the Year, and would be selected as an All-Star the following three seasons (2008, 2009, 2010).
A third draft-day deal in which the team acquired the rights to the #27 pick in the draft, Sergio Rodriguez, from the Phoenix Suns in exchange for cash.

PacerGuy
01-28-2011, 04:35 PM
I'm sure insurance is paying Roy's salary.
Roy's contract is NOT covered by insurance. That is why Prich is getting killed, the condition was known & preexisting. Bad contract!

Since86
01-28-2011, 04:37 PM
Wasn't Bender's knee issues known before he had to retire and didn't insurance cover the rest of it the salary?

I don't think insurance wouldn't pay just because of it being a known pre-existing condition, I would imagine the premiums were through the roof high and they still would cover whatever Roy would be owed, if it came down to it.

wintermute
01-28-2011, 05:07 PM
I'm sure insurance is paying Roy's salary.

The damaging thing about Roy for Portland is that he can play (most of the time), but not at his previous All-Star level. They're going to be stuck with his max contract for a while.

It's true though that Roy is getting surgery which will hopefully restore some of his mobility. It's considered a longshot though.



EDIT: And why do we assume that Pritch just gave Roy the contract, and it was his fault? Is it possible that the owner gave the orders that he wanted Roy to remain a Blazer?

I've read different versions. A few reports suggest the hold up in negotiation was due to Pritchard wanting to put in safeguards, other reports suggest it was ownership who were rightly being cautious. The last seems to be the generally accepted version.

Hard to sift truth from fiction. Portland's management structure is a mess. Pritchard as GM was nominally in charge of basketball operations, but there were a number of executives between him and owner Paul Allen. When KP was sacked, those guys gave him a toasting in the media. For what's it's worth, KP took the high ground and has kept silent.

grace
01-28-2011, 05:14 PM
KP in best case avarage gm

Maybe but he's still 10x better than Larry Bird.

wintermute
01-28-2011, 05:19 PM
Of the last 4 Blazers GM's the most successful have been the ones with business acumen rather than basketball scouts. Whitsitt and Patterson were business gurus and hired basketball scouts to evaluate talent. Whitsitt built great teams and drafted well and Patterson drafted Roy and Aldridge. While Nash and Pritchard were basketball scouts that turned into busts as GM's. So, I’m happy to see another business guru as our GM


Trader Bob built great teams?? Wow, I couldn't believe I missed this before.

Bob Whitsitt assembled a team that included luminaries such as Rasheed Wallace, Isaiah Rider, Bonzi Wells, Zach Randolph, Ruben Patterson, Qyntel Woods, a.k.a. the Jail Blazers. They won some games but in hindsight no one is going to call Whitsitt a success as GM.

aaronb
01-28-2011, 05:31 PM
I don't believe for 1 second that Larry Bird would cave to media pressure. I really do want Nate McMillan however.

Didn't he banish Tinsley, trade Artest and SJax, then spend the last 3 years using lotto picks on clean cut role players?

Your Fanboi-ism knows absolutely no bounds!!!!!

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 05:43 PM
Trader Bob built great teams?? Wow, I couldn't believe I missed this before.

Bob Whitsitt assembled a team that included luminaries such as Rasheed Wallace, Isaiah Rider, Bonzi Wells, Zach Randolph, Ruben Patterson, Qyntel Woods, a.k.a. the Jail Blazers. They won some games but in hindsight no one is going to call Whitsitt a success as GM.
Bob Whitsitt was hailed as the architect of the 1995-1996 Sonics team that went to the NBA Finals (and lost to the Chicago Bulls) also.
.Kevin Pritchard Portland Trail Blazers ...
Seasons: 3
Playoffs: 2
Division Titles: 0
Conference Titles: 0
NBA Titles: 0
who successful?

Spirit
01-28-2011, 05:44 PM
Anyone who runs a slow offense built around Hibbert and Granger is fine with me.

xBulletproof
01-28-2011, 05:49 PM
Didn't he banish Tinsley, trade Artest and SJax, then spend the last 3 years using lotto picks on clean cut role players?

Your Fanboi-ism knows absolutely no bounds!!!!!

:laugh:

So Artest asking for a trade is a sign of caving to media pressure? Holding employee's to being a high standard of human being is caving to media pressure? I guess when my employer turns people away because of felony records it's because they're caving to media pressure as well. :rolleyes:

Regardless, as you always like to ignore, those things happened with Donnie Walsh here, and making the decisions. You can call me a "fanboi" (what grade are we in again?) all you like, but it doesn't change anything except making you look silly.

Glad you ignored the knocks on Pritchard too. You're good at doing that for those you want to cheer for .... ignoring their wrongs.

Eddie Gill
01-28-2011, 06:03 PM
That would be a crazy two-run homer for the Pacers if it happened.



The Pacers don't hit two-run homers. I think of this franchise as more of a slap hitter.

aaronb
01-28-2011, 06:06 PM
The Pacers don't hit two-run homers. I think of this franchise as more of a slap hitter.


We are the Neifi Perez of NBA franchises!

wintermute
01-28-2011, 06:08 PM
Bob Whitsitt was hailed as the architect of the 1995-1996 Sonics team that went to the NBA Finals (and lost to the Chicago Bulls) also.


Kind of a stretch considering Trader Bob joined the Blazers in 1994...

For all I know, Pritchard may be a terrible GM, but that still doesn't make Whitsitt any kind of success.

Look, there's one poster here who obviously has an axe to grind against Larry Bird, and another who's obviously dead set against Kevin Pritchard, and to be honest you're both terribly annoying.

xBulletproof
01-28-2011, 06:19 PM
and another who's obviously dead set against Kevin Pritchard, and to be honest you're both terribly annoying.

Your ignorant assumptions are 'terribly annoying'.

I'm just pointing out that he isn't perfect. He made some great moves with Aldridge and Roy trades. Among picking well towards the end of the draft, even if they bought the picks and that wouldn't happen here, but he did make good on them.

I'm sorry that facts are terribly annoying for you. There's always the ignore button, and maturity waiting for you in the future to fix the problem. Wait, or don't.

tadscout
01-28-2011, 06:27 PM
Anyone who runs a slow offense built around Hibbert and Granger is fine with me.

Especially if they run a pick n roll offense... Would be great for Collison as well...

aaronb
01-28-2011, 06:28 PM
I've got no axe to grind with Bird. If he'd come here and the franchise had success. I'd be a Bird fan as an exec. Unfortunately his tenure has coincided with the worst 6 years of team history.

I'm a Pacers fan first and foremost. If Piston fan John Green could build us a contender. I'd say let's hire him!

wintermute
01-28-2011, 06:48 PM
Your ignorant assumptions are 'terribly annoying'.

I'm just pointing out that he isn't perfect. He made some great moves with Aldridge and Roy trades. Among picking well towards the end of the draft, even if they bought the picks and that wouldn't happen here, but he did make good on them.

I'm sorry that facts are terribly annoying for you. There's always the ignore button, and maturity waiting for you in the future to fix the problem. Wait, or don't.

:confused:

Eh? Wasn't referring to you. No need to be so defensive. Take another look at the thread.

PacersPride
01-28-2011, 06:55 PM
Didn't he banish Tinsley, trade Artest and SJax, then spend the last 3 years using lotto picks on clean cut role players?

Your Fanboi-ism knows absolutely no bounds!!!!!

Tinsley may have been banished by the Simons.. as the hawk guy pointed out already.

Artest and Jax were trading while walsh was here, so why dont you get your facts straight before you spew your repetitive nonsense. the other poster hit the nail on the head, you listen to what you want to hear, and ignore anything of the contrary.

you have been told all these things at least once, but then you carry on with the same ol' tired tune. you are well aware of the tinsley saga, and you continue to place all the blame on Bird.

your a hater with nothing to support your convictions.

xBulletproof
01-28-2011, 07:02 PM
:confused:

Eh? Wasn't referring to you. No need to be so defensive. Take another look at the thread.

Hm. Egg on my face? :laugh: @ me.

Maybe it was a bit of guilty conscious on my part because I had pointed out Pritchard's mistakes and made no mention of his good moves. So maybe I just expected it to be me because of that. Combined with that I was arguing with the other person who we all knew you were talking about, while arguing with him about Pritchard even. So it seemed natural to me. Off the top of my head I don't recall anyone else knocking Pritchard any harder than I did.

I wouldn't mind having Pritchard even though it doesn't seem like it. I just don't expect him to beat the world.

Which reminds me, aaronb worships Pritchard who's best moves were draft day trades acquiring Aldridge and Roy. Yet when the Rush/Bayless trade was brought up as a plus for Bird, he said that trades like that "don't count". Hilarious!

aaronb
01-28-2011, 07:03 PM
Tinsley may have been banished by the Simons.. as the hawk guy pointed out already.

Artest and Jax were trading while walsh was here, so why dont you get your facts straight before you spew your repetitive nonsense. the other poster hit the nail on the head, you listen to what you want to hear, and ignore anything of the contrary.

you have been told all these things at least once, but then you carry on with the same ol' tired tune. you are well aware of the tinsley saga, and you continue to place all the blame on Bird.

your a hater with nothing to support your convictions.


Larry hired on as the GM in 2003. He doesn't get a 5 year pass because a few guys on a message board say he does. Some people look for any opportunity to barnicle on Larrys nuts. I'm not going to be that dude.

If he moves this team in a positive direction. I might change my tune? But this is a results business. Larrys results has equalled declining win totals each and every year he's been here.

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 07:06 PM
Kind of a stretch considering Trader Bob joined the Blazers in 1994...

For all I know, Pritchard may be a terrible GM, but that still doesn't make Whitsitt any kind of success.

Look, there's one poster here who obviously has an axe to grind against Larry Bird, and another who's obviously dead set against Kevin Pritchard, and to be honest you're both terribly annoying.
In his nine seasons with the Blazers, beginning in 1994, Whitsitt’s teams averaged 50 wins and made the playoffs every year, maintaining a streak of postseason appearances that stretched for 21 years. They were known more for their characters than their character. He concedes that they had their off-court issues, including six players arrested from 2001 to 2002. Yet the Blazers sold out every game in the 19,980-seat Rose Garden for every year he was there.

PacersPride
01-28-2011, 07:08 PM
I've got no axe to grind with Bird. If he'd come here and the franchise had success. I'd be a Bird fan as an exec. Unfortunately his tenure has coincided with the worst 6 years of team history.

I'm a Pacers fan first and foremost. If Piston fan John Green could build us a contender. I'd say let's hire him!

Bird has been in charge since 08, while Walsh and Bird were in the front office together, who do you believe had final say on basketball decisions?

Rookie GM Bird, or Walsh who had been here since the mid-80's.? I will agree those 3 years or so after the brawl were not good in some of the moves that were made, but who do you believe was the man in charge?

aaronb
01-28-2011, 07:11 PM
Which reminds me, aaronb worships Pritchard who's best moves were draft day trades acquiring Aldridge and Roy. Yet when the Rush/Bayless trade was brought up as a plus for Bird, he said that trades like that "don't count". Hilarious!

Wow!!! Larry traded a lotto pick for 3 role players that didn't improve our w/L record 1 single game in 3 years. What a hero move that was!!!!

I still say a 22 year old Bayless still ends up the best guy in that deal.

The Rocker
01-28-2011, 07:13 PM
Larry hired on as the GM in 2003. He doesn't get a 5 year pass because a few guys on a message board say he does. Some people look for any opportunity to barnicle on Larrys nuts. I'm not going to be that dude.

If he moves this team in a positive direction. I might change my tune? But this is a results business. Larrys results has equalled declining win totals each and every year he's been here.
http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/GMs/Exec.htm
2008-03-24 Pacers Donnie Walsh resigned as president & CEO effective at the end of the season

BringJackBack
01-28-2011, 07:14 PM
Wow!!! Larry traded a lotto pick for 3 role players that didn't improve our w/L record 1 single game in 3 years. What a hero move that was!!!!

I still say a 22 year old Bayless still ends up the best guy in that deal.

Is it possible for a guy to get banned for blindly worshiping one with no merit yet blindly hating one with no merit?? For Christ's sake it's getting ridiculous!

aaronb
01-28-2011, 07:17 PM
Is it possible for a guy to get banned for blindly worshiping one with no merit yet blindly hating one with no merit?? For Christ's sake it's getting ridiculous!


Champion mediocity all you wish bro. So long as we've got a local celebrity running the show!!!

vnzla81
01-28-2011, 07:19 PM
OK here are the articles that explain the Greg Oden issues before the draft

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...ninjured102908



Maybe this, like the ankle sprain, doesn’t turn out to be serious, either. But some league executives who have seen Oden’s pre-draft medical report are skeptical of his ability to stay healthy for the long-term. Asked late Tuesday what in the report raised concerns, one Eastern Conference player personnel director was succinct with his answer: “Everything.”

Oden’s right leg is slightly longer than his left, which can create hip alignment problems, a condition that bothered former San Antonio Spurs center David Robinson late in his career. The physical also showed Oden had a bulging disc in his back. His knees were another potential area of worry.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...ge=Oden-101118



And it's possible he needs to be surrounded by a different medical and training staff. Oden's knee troubles are the latest in a Portland line that includes Zach Randolph, Darius Miles, Joel Przybilla and Brandon Roy, the franchise player who limped through the playoffs and currently is on the shelf for at least a week. I've had NBA people from inside and outside the organization cast wary eyes on the Trail Blazers' medical ways.

At a news conference Wednesday, the Blazers went out of their way to praise the medical staff, with team president Larry Miller saying, "We have without a doubt one of the most respected medical and training staffs in all of sports," and general manager Rich Cho's opening statement consisting of "These guys are top notch. These guys are very knowledgeable, thorough, extremely hard-working, and I support them 100 percent."

Hopefully this can help to solve some of the issues here.

BringJackBack
01-28-2011, 07:23 PM
Champion mediocity all you wish bro. So long as we've got a local celebrity running the show!!!

Luxury tax all out the *** bro. So long as you've got your butt buddy Pritch running the show!!

I can play that game too!

xBulletproof
01-28-2011, 07:24 PM
Champion mediocity all you wish bro. So long as we've got a local celebrity running the show!!!

This is what it's like talking about anything with you. Instead of just admitting it was a good trade ..... we go in circles.

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/6420388/2/istockphoto_6420388-going-in-circles.jpg

aaronb
01-28-2011, 07:27 PM
Luxury tax all out the *** bro. So long as you've got your butt buddy Pritch running the show!!

I can play that game too!

I can care less who's in the front office. I'm just tired of this franchise being a laughingstock.

aaronb
01-28-2011, 07:31 PM
This is what it's like talking about anything with you. Instead of just admitting it was a good trade ..... we go in circles.

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/6420388/2/istockphoto_6420388-going-in-circles.jpg


How was it a good trade again? How many extra wins did we win over the previous year? How many playoff appearances did it net? How did that lotto pick help us get out of the lotto?

It was a good trade in the way that Travis Diener was a good free agent pickup.

xBulletproof
01-28-2011, 07:37 PM
How was it a good trade again? How many extra wins did we win over the previous year? How many playoff appearances did it net? How did that lotto pick help us get out of the lotto?

It was a good trade in the way that Travis Diener was a good free agent pickup.

I dunno, in that we gave up less talent than we received?

By that measure Portland isn't going to amount to anything either. They're going to be mediocre as well. So I guess they're irrelevant too. Even with the perfect human being Pritchard as GM. :laugh:

JonnyB83
01-28-2011, 11:03 PM
Also, isn't Nate McMillan running the most half-court, slow offense in the league? If so, talk about your pendulum swings. I think fans would grow to hate him for being too far on the other end of the spectrum from Jim O'Brien.

If he won, I wouldn't mind at all. Winning is a lot more fun to watch, no matter how its done, than losing.

CableKC
01-29-2011, 12:41 AM
Stupid question....but given the likely core of Players that we will be building around ( DC/PG/Granger/Hansbrough/Hibbert/BRush/AJ ), does their skillsets mesh well with a half-court offense/defense ( or whatever the heck offense/defense that a Coach like Nate would bring )?

beezer615
01-29-2011, 10:12 AM
False, people hated the Rick Carlisle way of play with slow half-court offenses. Grinned and bore it when we were doing well, but it was hard to watch slowly walking up the court, bounce pass onto the baseline for JO, and watch him stare down his defender for 5 seconds to just put up a J. Rather have something between the 2.

aaronb
01-29-2011, 10:38 AM
Stupid question....but given the likely core of Players that we will be building around ( DC/PG/Granger/Hansbrough/Hibbert/BRush/AJ ), does their skillsets mesh well with a half-court offense/defense ( or whatever the heck offense/defense that a Coach like Nate would bring )?

Part of the reason we've struggled over the last few years, is our mismatched roster. We want to run, yet we start a 300 lb center? We can't effectively run half court, because we lack guys who can create their own shot. Still looking for that guy who can get to the rim at will.

Seems like a huge disconnect between the people picking the players and the coach.

xIndyFan
01-29-2011, 10:47 AM
False, people hated the Rick Carlisle way of play with slow half-court offenses. Grinned and bore it when we were doing well, but it was hard to watch slowly walking up the court, bounce pass onto the baseline for JO, and watch him stare down his defender for 5 seconds to just put up a J. Rather have something between the 2.

:iagree: this. i was one of those people. screaming that the team to run. then rick starts waving his hands and the pacers crawl to a stop as they run a play. :rolleyes:

don't want that anymore. especially with this collection of players. they have a hard enough time scoring in the half court when they only have to do it every 4th or 5th play. pacers would have trouble breaking 60 if the ran half court sets every play. :(

xIndyFan
01-29-2011, 10:52 AM
Part of the reason we've struggled over the last few years, is our mismatched roster. We want to run, yet we start a 300 lb center? We can't effectively run half court, because we lack guys who can create their own shot. Still looking for that guy who can get to the rim at will.

Seems like a huge disconnect between the people picking the players and the coach.

that disconnect seems to be more of a natural progression from the old murphy/dunleavy team to the new guys. bird has been pretty consistent in his taking full sized guys for their position. rush, george, roy are all tall. tyler and darren are undersized. tyler is bigger and stronger for his height. the older team was mostly weak and/or undersized by position. that seems to be changing. this looks like the cause of the disconnect. as more new players get here, the type of offense will change to accomidate their skill sets.

Naptown_Seth
01-29-2011, 01:10 PM
You do realize that was an exact discription that could have applied to Jim O'Brien. Jim is old school, too honest with the media, discriplinarian
HONEST?

Hardly. How about wildly contradictory. How about UNECCESSARILY HARSH which does NOT EQUATE to "honesty".


Example since you insist on pretending like you don't get this difference and it ticks me off:

Honest - "He's struggling a bit on some switches, but he's working on it and I think we can get him there."

JOB - "His defense is awful."


Honest - "Josh had a great first half tonight and it shows what we know he's capable of, but he's got to work on consistency so he can help us keep momentum into the 2nd half and get the win."

JOB - "Irrelevant"


Honest - "MIP? Well certainly Roy's made huge strides so that's a possibility, but the thing is he can go so much farther and still has a lot of work to do...and I think he'd tell you that too."

JOB - "MIP? Roy isn't playing very well and I think he'd agree."



Honest - "Buck likes to see both sides and tries to maintain an overall objective balance when it comes to discussing the coaching situation"

JOB - "Buck is up my rear because he's too dumb to not fall in love with me."


What is gained by that second approach other than to be insulting?

Naptown_Seth
01-29-2011, 01:13 PM
Nate Mac - like Rick Carlisle, is willing to use WHATEVER lineup including small ball, to give his team an advantage. Rick was often stuck using 3 or even 4 guard lineups post-brawl. There were a lot of games with James Jones playing PF and Reggie at SF. JJ and Reggie specifically came through with this lineup vs the Nets late in that season, getting big shots in the final minutes to earn the win.

Nate Mac, like Rick, wants to grind teams to help make it a defensive struggle which he feels they can then win.


Personally as a Rick fan I'd love Nate. I'm not pro or con on tempos, I just want SMART basketball.

Nate does NOT rely on a 3pt focus specifically and is NOT known for his PF shooting 150 3PA in a season.


Nate will confront players and it might involve the press, I don't love that. But he won't be out of left field and he won't doubletalk them, as in play, DNP, play, DNP. You won't get a kid ripped for defense while a horrible defensive vet goes unmentioned and unpunished for SEASONS at a time.




It just comes off as more pro-JOB spin, this whole "oh Nate is just like him" and "you'll soon hate Nate" angle. Every coach will have detractors, but not all of them are reasonable first of all (look at all the people ready to shove Rick out only to have him go somewhere else and continue to win big, just like his first 2 teams) and second of all good results tend to quiet those complaints.

Finally, the team is already losing and losing fans. Nate Mac (or anyone including Tim Floyd) couldn't do worse.

Troy's deal was already turned into DC. JO's deal was reduced to TJ Ford long ago. Your 17th pick became an all-star and dream team player. Another 17th pick was showing early signs for MIP. The team has long moved past being completely jammed up with no chance for talent.

Right now the only financial step this team could take would be to convert the TJ+Dun money into something like Zach Randolph or Melo. Either guy would improve the team, but no way that counts as 25 more wins to the 55-56 range of "mission completed".

The team spending on all other players on this roster is right in line with other teams. No one else is getting overpaid by talent (DJones barely), and a few are actually getting underpaid due to rookie deals (or cheap new deals like Josh).

This team is actually AT THE END of clearing out the bad money, not the start. This is the end of a rebuild if the reason you needed to rebuild was many bad deals that locked up the team. The mid-picks panned out just as well as picks higher in the draft did, so you weren't hurt by drafting 5-6 slots lower for the most part.

Naptown_Seth
01-29-2011, 01:25 PM
Roy's contract is NOT covered by insurance. That is why Prich is getting killed, the condition was known & preexisting. Bad contract!
Insurance on a player isn't in a contract with the player, that would be a separate document. The Pacers didn't get insurance money on Bender because his contract called out some insurance clause, they just take out insurance on a financial investment (the contract/player) as a contingency.

Maybe Pritch didn't buy insurance on the Roy deal, but that wouldn't have been part of the negotiations in his deal.

What WOULD be in there is salary to be paid were the player medically unable to complete the contract, and I'm not sure what the NBA standard is but I'd be surprised to learn if a lot of NBA player deals involve forfeiture of salary due to lost games due to injury.

And if I were that player/agent I think I'd also take out insurance to cover any potential salary loss were I to become injured, and that insurance cost would be why we wouldn't want to sign a deal like that.



Anyone familiar with NBA contract details feel free to correct me on this, I'm just looking at it from a practical viewpoint given the strength of the guaranteed deals with the current CBA in place. Suddenly B Roy is going to give up tons of money if he gets hurt? Seems wildly out of place with most deals.

Mourning
01-29-2011, 03:31 PM
Oh no, wait it isn't going to work, look what I found here. he likes small ball. OK who is next.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/basketball/nba/seattle.preview/

By John Hollinger

Managing the whole affair is one of the league's most underrated coaches, Nate MacMillan. The former Sonic player masterfully uses small-ball lineups to throw opponents off guard and got the Sonics to play respectable defense last year despite a paucity of athleticism. He'll have to be on top of his game once again to navigate the Sonics back to the postseason.

The difference being, offcourse, that Nate uses smallball "masterfully" and well let's just say JOB actually uses it like well... CRAP!

PacerGuy
01-29-2011, 06:06 PM
Insurance on a player isn't in a contract with the player, that would be a separate document. The Pacers didn't get insurance money on Bender because his contract called out some insurance clause, they just take out insurance on a financial investment (the contract/player) as a contingency.

Maybe Pritch didn't buy insurance on the Roy deal, but that wouldn't have been part of the negotiations in his deal.

What WOULD be in there is salary to be paid were the player medically unable to complete the contract, and I'm not sure what the NBA standard is but I'd be surprised to learn if a lot of NBA player deals involve forfeiture of salary due to lost games due to injury.

And if I were that player/agent I think I'd also take out insurance to cover any potential salary loss were I to become injured, and that insurance cost would be why we wouldn't want to sign a deal like that.



Anyone familiar with NBA contract details feel free to correct me on this, I'm just looking at it from a practical viewpoint given the strength of the guaranteed deals with the current CBA in place. Suddenly B Roy is going to give up tons of money if he gets hurt? Seems wildly out of place with most deals.

That was my understanding - that a team could insure a player (contract/ investment) vs. extended injury time (out > 1 yr, then salery covered - E.Curry has this, & T.Ratliff did in the past IIRC, making their contracts partially/full covered, & making them move "valuable" in a trade), or a career ending injury. The money is to the team, & in no way affects the cap, nor is it in their team contract. I had heard that Roy's knees did not pass a physical for his new deal to be covered by such insurance, thus making Portland 100% liable for the entire amount should they sign him (which they did anyway). Portland (Pritchard) knew of the knee issues, yet signed him to a max deal anyway, so now 1 yr. into a 6 yr. deal & he is out. Ouch!

Taterhead
01-29-2011, 06:26 PM
I dunno, in that we gave up less talent than we received?

By that measure Portland isn't going to amount to anything either. They're going to be mediocre as well. So I guess they're irrelevant too. Even with the perfect human being Pritchard as GM. :laugh:

Well you might check the standings. Portland is still a very good team despite the unprecedented injuries they have endured. That roster with a healthy Oden and Roy would be a serious contender. And Pritchard has a lot to do with that.

We have regressed for about 5 years IMO.

vnzla81
01-29-2011, 07:11 PM
Wow!!! Larry traded a lotto pick for 3 role players that didn't improve our w/L record 1 single game in 3 years. What a hero move that was!!!!

I still say a 22 year old Bayless still ends up the best guy in that deal.


Shade?

xBulletproof
01-29-2011, 07:15 PM
Shade?

Please don't insult Shade like that.

ilive4sports
01-29-2011, 07:39 PM
Well you might check the standings. Portland is still a very good team despite the unprecedented injuries they have endured. That roster with a healthy Oden and Roy would be a serious contender. And Pritchard has a lot to do with that.

We have regressed for about 5 years IMO.

Where was this team headed with Artest, Jackson, Tinsley and JO? They peaked with the 2004 ECF. Once Reggie retired we had no leadership. Our best player JO (who I love) became a shell of his former self because of injuries. Artest was still crazy. Jackson and Tinsley were shooting up Indiana. The team had absolutely no future and very little of a present.

All those players ended up getting us guys like Hibbert, Rush, Collison and we got some late lotto players in Hansbrough and Paul George. The brawl ultimately destroyed the previous era. What the hell was Bird and Walsh supposed to do?

aaronb
01-29-2011, 08:09 PM
Where was this team headed with Artest, Jackson, Tinsley and JO? They peaked with the 2004 ECF. Once Reggie retired we had no leadership. Our best player JO (who I love) became a shell of his former self because of injuries. Artest was still crazy. Jackson and Tinsley were shooting up Indiana. The team had absolutely no future and very little of a present.

All those players ended up getting us guys like Hibbert, Rush, Collison and we got some late lotto players in Hansbrough and Paul George. The brawl ultimately destroyed the previous era. What the hell was Bird and Walsh supposed to do?


Ok. Fine. So that team peaked in 2004.

It's 2011. Why haven't we rebuilt yet? Why are we still 6 rotation level players, and 2 stars away from being contenders? Someone should have gotten around to rebuilding this roster. Whomever was responsible?

xBulletproof
01-29-2011, 08:18 PM
Well you might check the standings. Portland is still a very good team despite the unprecedented injuries they have endured. That roster with a healthy Oden and Roy would be a serious contender. And Pritchard has a lot to do with that.

We have regressed for about 5 years IMO.

You might check the standings, they're around .500. They're a borderline playoff team that needs another star player to compete. Too good to get the draft pick they need. Not good enough to contend, and they owe a ton of money to Brandon Roy that could very well be one of the worst contracts in the NBA in a couple years hampering their cap status.

Their hope hinges on re-signing Oden and him making a miraculous turnaround in health, and playing like more than an ultra hyped version of Javale McGee even when he does play.

They're very nearly in the same boat as the Pacers, but they had a ton of high picks and assets. This is who aaronb uses as an example of excellence, while he claims Bird sucks. Just sayin'.