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Trader Joe
01-28-2011, 01:09 PM
Ray Allen will break Reggie Miller's career 3 point record probably by the end of February, are we all aware of this?

Simmons alerted it to me in his column today. Ray is only 17 behind Reggie as it stands today.

SMosley21
01-28-2011, 01:13 PM
Records are made to be broken. Only the ones predicated by the fact that players played against inferior opponents (like Wilt scoring 100 in 1 game), will stand the test of time.

Roaming Gnome
01-28-2011, 01:27 PM
I was just hoping that Reggie could get into the Hall before his record would be broken, but I knew that was a pipe dream when Reggie retired. Good for Ray Allen, too bad his record will not last either the way shots go up anymore from outside the arc...

Hell, who knows.... Maybe Danny will shatter Ray's record at the rate he tosses up 3PA's!

Trader Joe
01-28-2011, 01:30 PM
I don't know that it's a foregone conclusion that someone will break Ray's record, he and Reggie are 800 made 3s ahead of the next closest person.

Roaming Gnome
01-28-2011, 01:32 PM
I don't know that it's a foregone conclusion that someone will break Ray's record, he and Reggie are 800 made 3s ahead of the next closest person.

I didn't know that... You're probably right considering the gap.
:tmyk:
Thanks :D

Sookie
01-28-2011, 01:37 PM
I heard a commentator say that he thought Ray was, still, the best shooter in the league. Nash might be second.

I'm not sure if that's true, but I can't think of anyone else that actually gets a lot of playing time.

Ray's also going to have a few more years to expand the record, so..even though his record will most likely some day be broken, I think it'll be a while. I don't think anyone currently in the NBA will break it.

cdash
01-28-2011, 02:02 PM
I heard a commentator say that he thought Ray was, still, the best shooter in the league. Nash might be second.

I'm not sure if that's true, but I can't think of anyone else that actually gets a lot of playing time.

Ray's also going to have a few more years to expand the record, so..even though his record will most likely some day be broken, I think it'll be a while. I don't think anyone currently in the NBA will break it.

I think those two are head and shoulders above the rest. Except, of course, the greatest shooter who ever lived (JJ Redick).

90'sNBARocked
01-28-2011, 02:08 PM
I was unaware he was that close.

Im biased I know, but as great a 3pt shooter Ray Allen is, he will never be the playoff clutch killer Reggie was

Speed
01-28-2011, 02:15 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110128&sportCat=nba

Kobe just one star defying aging curve

by Bill Simmons

1/28/11

Allen: I hope you enjoyed the "Reggie Miller versus Ray Allen" debate. It's been over for a year. Right now, Ray ranks second in 3-pointers made (2,543, just 17 behind Reggie; nobody else is within 800 of them) and second in 3s attempted (6,388), only he's made 40 percent of them (one of 40 players who can say that). He's also the fourth-best free throw shooter ever (89.4 percent). Given his phenomenal work ethic, we can safely say 25,000 points, 3,000 made 3s and a 45-40-90 career percentages are in play. I just don't think we're seeing that again. His extended prime made him the most efficient shooting guard who ever lived; throw in his clutch shooting numbers (see sidebar) and it's been a wildly underrated career.



Other than Reggie, you know who the biggest loser is here? Sam Presti, who made a totally defensible trade when he was rebuilding Seattle around Kevin Durant in 2007 (Allen and the rights to Glen Davis for the rights to Jeff Green, Delonte West and Wally Szczerbiak's expiring contract) and never imagined he was giving up five or six more killer Ray Allen seasons. I can't wait for the "40 for 40" documentary about the 2007 draft in 10 years.



NBA.com's "Stats Cube" examined Ray Allen's career this week and found the following things:

• Only 12 players attempted 300-plus 3-pointers and made 39 percent or more in one season. Reggie Miller did it a record nine times; Ray Allen has done it seven times (this year will probably be No. 8).

• Allen's 3-point percentages by quarter (since 1996-97): 41.3 (First), 40.6 (Second), 39.9 (Third), 38.5 (Fourth), and 43.4 (OT). For fourth quarter and OT combined, only five players averaged higher than 36 percent in the past 15 years: Steve Nash (45.6 percent), Allen (42.6 percent), Jason Terry (41.9 percent), Chauncey Billups (41.3 percent) and Dirk Nowitzki (37.1 percent). Reggie Miller over that time: 34.1 percent.

• The top-5 for clutch 3-point shooting (either OT or 3:00 or less in the fourth, with a margin of three points or fewer) since 1996-97: Mike Bibby (41.8 percent), Allen (40.2 percent), Terry (39.2 percent), Billups (38.4 percent), Nash (37.8 percent). Reggie Miller from 1996 to 2005: 33.1 percent.

• Allen is averaging better than 45 percent on 3-pointers in five cities: Miami (50 percent), Toronto (47.6 percent), Golden State (46.8 percent), Memphis (46.2 percent) and Denver (45.2 percent).

• Since 1996-97, Allen has attempted 25.9 percent of his 3s from the corners (making 42.4 percent) and 74.1 percent from everywhere else (making 39.3 percent).

Pacergeek
01-28-2011, 02:24 PM
screw bill simmons. he has some sort of beef with indiana. he says Ray is better than Reggie. Ray Allen is so effin' soft. Allen couldn't hold Miller's jock strap.

90'sNBARocked
01-28-2011, 02:24 PM
I still remember loving Glen Rice

Man he had a sweet jimmy for a 6'9 Dude

In fact thats who Granger reminds me of the most

BRushWithDeath
01-28-2011, 02:43 PM
screw bill simmons. he has some sort of beef with indiana. he says Ray is better than Reggie. Ray Allen is so effin' soft. Allen couldn't hold Miller's jock strap.

Bill Simmons very may well dislike Indiana, just as I dislike Boston, but saying that Ray Allen couldn't hold Reggie Miller's jock is just plain silly.

Speed
01-28-2011, 03:11 PM
I'd like to see Playoff stats on Reggie, weight it by round and then game within each round, then by quarter. Giving greater weight to game sevens, ECF, 4th quarter. That type of thing.

Taking nothing away from Ray Allen, but I'd take Reggie on a last second shot, everytime without hesitation.

Sollozzo
01-28-2011, 03:16 PM
Ray Allen is so effin' soft. Allen couldn't hold Miller's jock strap.



lol that's just ridiculous.

Trader Joe
01-28-2011, 03:18 PM
Simmons doesn't even hate Indiana. He thinks the Lakers vs. Pacers finals was one of the best series of the past 15 years.

Tom White
01-28-2011, 03:20 PM
Hell, who knows.... Maybe Danny will shatter Ray's record at the rate he tosses up 3PA's!

He's going to have to start hitting a lot more of them first.

Kegboy
01-28-2011, 04:35 PM
Yes, Ray Allen is a tremendous shooter. But can you imagine what Reggie could have done playing third fiddle like Ray did in Milwaukee and Boston? Only time Allen was first option was with Lewis in Seattle, and they didn't do anything.

SMosley21
01-28-2011, 04:50 PM
Yes, Ray Allen is a tremendous shooter. But can you imagine what Reggie could have done playing third fiddle like Ray did in Milwaukee and Boston? Only time Allen was first option was with Lewis in Seattle, and they didn't do anything.

Other than his rookie season, when was Ray Allen ever a 3rd fiddle in Milwaukee? He averaged over 20 points per in his time there and was either 1st or 2nd leading scorer (per game) in every season he played other than his rookie year.

Sookie
01-28-2011, 04:52 PM
I'd like to see Playoff stats on Reggie, weight it by round and then game within each round, then by quarter. Giving greater weight to game sevens, ECF, 4th quarter. That type of thing.

Taking nothing away from Ray Allen, but I'd take Reggie on a last second shot, everytime without hesitation.

I don't think you can go wrong with either. I've seen Ray hit enough to know he's clutch, and Reggie obviously was. They are two of the best shooters ever in the NBA. You're lucky to have either in an end of game situation.

LA_Confidential
01-28-2011, 04:57 PM
I still remember loving Glen Rice

Man he had a sweet jimmy for a 6'9 Dude

In fact thats who Granger reminds me of the most

twss.

croz24
01-28-2011, 05:12 PM
as the leader of a franchise, allen took his teams nowhere compared to what reggie did in indiana. even with a prime cassell and glen robinson his teams consistently lost to reggie's pacers in the playoffs. imho, allen is not close to reggie as a player or as a leader. not until allen was surrounded by hall of famers and the 3rd or 4th best player on his team did he even make the finals.

Day-V
01-28-2011, 05:55 PM
Simmons has Reggie ranked higher than Ray in his book.

TMJ31
01-28-2011, 06:35 PM
I've always secretly desired for Ray to either willingly retire or incur a career ending, but not "quality of life" hindering injury before he breaks Reggie's record.

Petty of me, I know... But regardless, I still hope it happens. Still a few games left! :P

Indra
01-30-2011, 05:58 AM
I've always secretly desired for Ray to either willingly retire or incur a career ending, but not "quality of life" hindering injury before he breaks Reggie's record.

Petty of me, I know... But regardless, I still hope it happens. Still a few games left! :P

I'm ashamed, but I've had these same thoughts for the past two years.

Kstat
01-30-2011, 07:53 AM
I'd like to see Playoff stats on Reggie, weight it by round and then game within each round, then by quarter. Giving greater weight to game sevens, ECF, 4th quarter. That type of thing.

Taking nothing away from Ray Allen, but I'd take Reggie on a last second shot, everytime without hesitation.

...you realize Reggie didn't fare very well in the majority of his elimination games, right?

Kstat
01-30-2011, 07:55 AM
as the leader of a franchise, allen took his teams nowhere compared to what reggie did in indiana. even with a prime cassell and glen robinson his teams consistently lost to reggie's pacers in the playoffs. imho, allen is not close to reggie as a player or as a leader. not until allen was surrounded by hall of famers and the 3rd or 4th best player on his team did he even make the finals.

...and he had several clutch performances once he got there, including the NBA record for most threes made in a finals game. Let's not pretend Ray Allen was dead weight on those teams either.

Kid Minneapolis
01-30-2011, 10:46 AM
Reggie took a perennial loser and made them a Colts-like playoff appearance team, often going all the way to the Conference Finals or the Finals. Ya he experienced some losses, but he was always guarded by the teams best defender, he was the stand-alone leader of his teams and had a bigger set of balls than anyone this side of Michael Jordan.

Allen is a good player. He got a ring playing 3rd fiddle. Good for him. He's gonna get the 3-point title. He's still no Reggie, no matter how many stats you throw out.

15th parallel
01-30-2011, 11:12 AM
At some point, with the change of pace and the dynamic improvement on the quality of athletes, records will be broken as years pass. We might see ridiculous rebounding records possibly set by the likes of Love and Griffin in the future, point totals by LeBron or Kobe, steals and assists by C. Paul, and other statistical records. If Allen breaks Reggie's record for most 3's made, whether we like it or not, he deserved it.

As for the debate on who's better between the two, Allen SHOULD be a much better player than Reggie, given that he's been drafted 5th overall on a draft experts considered as one of the best. Reggie was drafted 11th overall on a relatively good but not so great draft. Plus, Reggie wasn't even that athletic to begin with and relied so much on his on-court smarts, shooting, and determination to compete with the likes of Jordan. If Allen ends up not becoming a better SG than Reggie is, for me, an underachievement on Allen's part.

Regardless, whether he broke Reggie's record or not, Reggie for me is still a better player. Biased? Yes, and I'm fully aware of that.