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PacersPride
01-27-2011, 10:41 PM
would this lineup win 50 games and contend if we gave them 5 more years experience and a new coach?

collison (29), george (25), granger (32), hansbrough (29), hibbert (29)

im not saying this will be our starting lineup down the road, but if this core stayed together and we continued to build via the draft and free agency, new coach, can this core win 50 and contend with 5 years additonal experience?

* i know this is purely speculative but its better than discussing O'brien rhetoric.

Psyren
01-27-2011, 10:46 PM
would this lineup win 50 games and contend if we gave them 5 more years experience and a new coach?

collison (29), george (25), granger (32), hansbrough (29), hibbert (29)

im not saying this will be our starting lineup down the road, but if this core stayed together and we continued to build via the draft and free agency, new coach, can this core win 50 and contend with 5 years additonal experience?

Who knows. It's almost impossible to predict that.

Injuries can happen. Any number of things can happen.

Also, depends on whose on your bench and who you acquire through the draft/free agency. If you have a bunch of busts/nobody's then I'd say probably not.

PacersPride
01-27-2011, 10:50 PM
Who knows. It's almost impossible to predict that.

Injuries can happen. Any number of things can happen.

yes im aware. generally speaking players improve with experience and coaching. keeps it in perspective how young this team is, & no where near reaching their "potential."

itzryan07
01-27-2011, 10:59 PM
i wanted that lineup at the beginning of the season

Psyren
01-27-2011, 11:18 PM
yes im aware. generally speaking players improve with experience and coaching. keeps it in perspective how young this team is, & no where near reaching their "potential."

Right, but you have to know who the bench players are.

Generally your starters won't win you 50 games if they have no bench help.

Trophy
01-27-2011, 11:20 PM
That can be a dangerous lineup in a good system.

I think they win 46 games with that lineup plus a solid bench.

xIndyFan
01-27-2011, 11:25 PM
still needs a new PF. tyler makes a much better backup than starter. it makes sense to play him now, but i expect the pacers to have another player starting.

beast23
01-27-2011, 11:37 PM
I think that lineup would be a lineup to start with, but unless George just improves off the charts that lineup will never be a contending team in any year.

We don't just need improvement in our players. We need different and better players.

For example, to some extent Hibbert is who he is. His personality is not going to change. He is not exactly a warrior by any means and simply does not have physical toughness. Even gaining 30 pounds of muscle, he will not be that player.

Hansbrough is a hard-nosed player with an excellent motor, but will never be the interior defensive presence that we will eventually need to be a contender.

Danny is not going to return to being a 25 ppg scorer, our team being developed simply is and will continue to have better balance among scorers than previous teams when Granger scored more. Granger is a very good player, one that many teams would like to have, but he is not good enough to start over the players at his position for the teams that are contenders at this time.

Collison will continue to grow and I believe under a different coach with a more conventional offense will eventually show to Pacer fans the same productivity that he was able to provide for New Orleans last season as a starter. But he is not likely to ever become an excellent defensive player that can prevent opposing PGs from penetrating the paint.

jhondog28
01-28-2011, 08:55 AM
I will say no, but only because it is too early to get a read on George. Hans is a decent PF, but nothing special. Granger needs to be more consistent. Hibbert needs to be more of a force on both ends of the floor. As far Collison. I think he could flourish if he had a consistent rotation. He keeps getting better and better.

Unclebuck
01-28-2011, 09:13 AM
would this lineup win 50 games and contend if we gave them 5 more years experience and a new coach?

collison (29), george (25), granger (32), hansbrough (29), hibbert (29)

im not saying this will be our starting lineup down the road, but if this core stayed together and we continued to build via the draft and free agency, new coach, can this core win 50 and contend with 5 years additonal experience?

The problem is at the bigs. Not sure either Tyler or Roy should be starting for any playoff team let along a 50 win team. But I do not believe that Tyler and Roy as a combo is good enough. One might be able to start with a better player and the other come off the bench. I guess my overall point is we need a better big guy than what Tyler or Roy will ever be. At least in order to be a 50 win team.

Trader Joe
01-28-2011, 10:57 AM
That can be a dangerous lineup in a good system.

I think they win 46 games with that lineup plus a solid bench.

If the results of that lineup + a solid bench in 5 years was only 46 wins, it would have been a waste of 5 years.

xIndyFan
01-28-2011, 11:14 AM
its purely hypothetical, but lets say the next 5 draft picks are the bench..

the lineup is still short of bigs. pacers need at least one new big and maybe 2 before they can be a good team. right now, both tyler and roy look like candidates for a backup role instead of a starter on a good team.

PacersPride
01-28-2011, 11:23 AM
[QUOTE]For example, to some extent Hibbert is who he is. His personality is not going to change. He is not exactly a warrior by any means and simply does not have physical toughness. Even gaining 30 pounds of muscle, he will not be that player.


you cannot be serious. Hibbert is who he is and the first thing you talk about is his personality.?? were talking about basketbally here, not comedian career after hoops. hibbert is no where near the finished product he can become. not a warrior? have you ever went to the gym and worked out.. honest question. cause i always felt like its the place that separated the men from the boys, and Hibbert works hard, along with George and Hansbrough. no disrespect but i see this as complete fabrication. Hibbs will be a player who can average 12 and 8 with good D. maybe not an all-star but solid. Hibbs has a nice jump shot.

PacersPride
01-28-2011, 11:28 AM
this is a 40 win team already with a coach other than Obrien. with 5 more years experience, a new coach, 5 more draft picks, a FA or two, some trades.. and again a NEW COACH; no reason to not believe this is a 50 win team.

beast23
01-28-2011, 11:37 AM
[QUOTE=beast23;1147799]


you cannot be serious. Hibbert is who he is and the first thing you talk about is his personality.?? were talking about basketbally here, not comedian career after hoops. hibbert is no where near the finished product he can become. not a warrior? have you ever went to the gym and worked out.. honest question. cause i always felt like its the place that separated the men from the boys, and Hibbert works hard, along with George and Hansbrough. no disrespect but i see this as complete fabrication. Hibbs will be a player who can average 12 and 8 with good D. maybe not an all-star but solid. Hibbs has a nice jump shot.You miss the whole point.

A person's personality plays a very large part of how that player will play on the court.

I am not saying that Hibbert's skills will not improve, nor am I saying that his knowledge and understanding of post play within the game. And, I am not stating knocking his work ethic.

What I am saying is that Hibbert does not have Hansbrough's motor for example. I struggle in how to explain it. He just doesn't have that inner quality that makes him view defense, for example, as a do-or-die thing, that he can push himself above and beyond what he has. In that regard, he is who he is.

If forced to utter the words, I will. I see Hibbert as being soft. I do not believe he will ever be a do-or-die warrior that patrols the paint looking for opportunities to rip guys apart. That is not a knock on him, because he will have a good career as a 12/8 player or even a 14/9 player. But he will never be a defensive force to deal with... he will have his games defensively, but will never be one of the top interior defenders of the game. That is just not who he is.

And that is fine. After all, that's who Smits was and I had great respect for Smits. But Smits had Dale Davis. We'd better be finding Davis' defensive clone if we are going to stick with Hibbert and expect to become a contender.

PacersPride
01-28-2011, 11:48 AM
[QUOTE=PacersPride;1147975]You miss the whole point.

A person's personality plays a very large part of how that player will play on the court.

I am not saying that Hibbert's skills will not improve, nor am I saying that his knowledge and understanding of post play within the game. And, I am not stating knocking his work ethic.

What I am saying is that Hibbert does not have Hansbrough's motor for example. I struggle in how to explain it. He just doesn't have that inner quality that makes him view defense, for example, as a do-or-die thing, that he can push himself above and beyond what he has. In that regard, he is who he is.

If forced to utter the words, I will. I see Hibbert as being soft. I do not believe he will ever be a do-or-die warrior that patrols the paint looking for opportunities to rip guys apart. That is not a knock on him, because he will have a good career as a 12/8 player or even a 14/9 player. But he will never be a defensive force to deal with... he will have his games defensively, but will never be one of the top interior defenders of the game. That is just not who he is.

And that is fine. After all, that's who Smits was and I had great respect for Smits. But Smits had Dale Davis. We'd better be finding Davis' defensive clone if we are going to stick with Hibbert and expect to become a contender.

i understand what your sayin, but it sounds more like your describing Brandon Rush, not Roy Hibbert. Rush doesnt have the "instinct," along with everything else you wrote above. Hibbert OTOH will continue to work and improve.

Hibbert is not soft at all; he may not be confused with Jakim Noah, but soft is harsh. if he lacked work ethic i would be concerned, but he works too hard to be called soft. how good was ewing his second year in the league.. just askin? olajuawon, i know robinson was good. there really are not many true centers left in the league.