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MyFavMartin
01-26-2011, 03:11 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=6061356

BPump33
01-26-2011, 03:12 PM
I read that this morning and I thought the same thing. I miss Rick.

Since86
01-26-2011, 03:19 PM
I loved Rick as a coach here. I thought he did, and probably still does, a great job of getting his team fired up. He routinely would ride officials and get T'd up, and in some cases even tossed, but I always felt like he did it with purpose.

He might have his egg timer rotations, and other shortcomings, but players respond when they feel like their coach is working just as hard for them as they are for their coach.

BillS
01-26-2011, 03:24 PM
He might have his egg timer rotations, and other shortcomings, but players respond when they feel like their coach is working just as hard for them as they are for their coach.

Except for the ones who don't respond because they get upset that he doesn't trust their own instincts and abilities because he controls the floor.

Everyone's mileage varies, but there was an awful lot of speculation about players who tuned out Rick because he wouldn't open up the offense to their abilities.

Since86
01-26-2011, 03:36 PM
Except for the ones who don't respond because they get upset that he doesn't trust their own instincts and abilities because he controls the floor.

Everyone's mileage varies, but there was an awful lot of speculation about players who tuned out Rick because he wouldn't open up the offense to their abilities.

Can you name some names?

Stephen Jackson goes out of his way to hug Rick when they go against each other, Ron has a lot of positive things to say about Rick and puts most of the problem on his own shoulders when he talks about his time here.

JO certainly has no room to complain about how Rick treated him, especially considering his infamous 9th game blowup when Rick tried to change the offense and get more people involved.


The only player that has any room to talk would be Jamaal, and he has zero credibility.

EDIT: And can anyone really blame Rick for not completely turning the reins over? None of those players ever showed any reason why they should have been trusted. During their time in Indy, or with them being on any other team.

I think if you were to get their honest opinions today, they would have a hell of a lot more positives to say about him than negatives.

I think it's debateable on whether or not Jim gets more out of his teams than what he should, but I don't think it's debateable with regards to Rick when you take into account everything that happened while he was here, and the crackpot rosters he had to work with.

I don't want to make it Rick vs. Jim, I'm just saying Rick did miracle work with the likes of Britton Johnsen and the like.

Kegboy
01-26-2011, 03:42 PM
Hey, at least Rick didn't trip Baron.

As for issues here, didn't Rick and JO have a blowup about Jermaine's cell phone in a meeting?

spreedom
01-26-2011, 03:50 PM
Great for Rick. Baron Davis is one of my least favorite players.

Unclebuck
01-26-2011, 03:54 PM
Can you name some names?

Stephen Jackson goes out of his way to hug Rick when they go against each other, Ron has a lot of positive things to say about Rick and puts most of the problem on his own shoulders when he talks about his time here.

JO certainly has no room to complain about how Rick treated him, especially considering his infamous 9th game blowup when Rick tried to change the offense and get more people involved.


The only player that has any room to talk would be Jamaal, and he has zero credibility.

EDIT: And can anyone really blame Rick for not completely turning the reins over? None of those players ever showed any reason why they should have been trusted. During their time in Indy, or with them being on any other team.

I think if you were to get their honest opinions today, they would have a hell of a lot more positives to say about him than negatives.

I think it's debateable on whether or not Jim gets more out of his teams than what he should, but I don't think it's debateable with regards to Rick when you take into account everything that happened while he was here, and the crackpot rosters he had to work with.

I don't want to make it Rick vs. Jim, I'm just saying Rick did miracle work with the likes of Britton Johnsen and the like.




here are some old negative threads about carlisle
http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=29764

http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=29696 - this thread has the direct quotes from players

This one is just wacky
http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=29698

Here is a poll about who wanrted a new head coach. 61 -19 against Rick
http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=29669

http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=30048

With this thread, no one can ever accuse me of trying to hide from my embarassing posts. (In march of 2007 I suggested the pacers look at Jim O'Brien. LOL
http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=29944

OK, this is a must read - fans threatening to drop their season tickets if Rick is brought back -
http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=29940

BillS
01-26-2011, 03:56 PM
Can you name some names?

Tinsley, specifically, but also JO (even though Rick gave in - or seemed to - it doesn't change that JO complained about it).

And I didn't make any claims of one or the other coach's detractors being credible or not, but credibility is often in the eye of the beholder.

I am not going to try to research the posts on PD that expressed the same opinion, because I assume you aren't denying their existence. Again, I'm not vouching for their credibility nor am I even remotely saying that the numbers compare to the numbers against JOB. I'm just saying that one fan/player's perfect coach can be another fan/player's nightmare.

Since86
01-26-2011, 03:56 PM
What's the saying?

"The grass is always greener on the other side, until you get there....."

Obviously there were negative threads about Rick, I'm saying as a player you like it when your coach stands up and fights for you. Players respond to that a lot more than just having a coach that doesn't.

Since86
01-26-2011, 04:00 PM
I'm just saying that one fan/player's perfect coach can be another fan/player's nightmare.

I know what you were saying, and I really don't agree with it. (Although I don't think "nightmare" is the correct term)

But Ron's feelings when he was in Indiana aren't the same now. Same with SJax, and probably JO if I had to take a stab at it.

And as far as Tinsley. I didn't give two ****s while he was here on what he thought, and I care even less now. I give Rick, and Jim, props for even making it a few months with that jackass. I would have booted his *** to the door within a week.

(Yes, Jamaal Tinsley still gets me fired up. If I had to choose between him and Jim, I'd take Jim every time.)

BillS
01-26-2011, 04:04 PM
I'm saying as a player you like it when your coach stands up and fights for you. Players respond to that a lot more than just having a coach that doesn't.

Can't argue with that as such, it just seemed to be an absolute statement such that this tendency would override other negatives.

littlerichard54
01-26-2011, 04:19 PM
I would kill for Carlisle to be our coach again. In hindsight, his offensive style was directly related to the personnel that we had on the team at that point. If he can coach Dallas without them complaining, then I am sure he could coach this group. However, he would still be having to call every play with this group on every possession. He is a Larry Brown type of coach in the regard that he is more suited for a team on the brink....IMO

Eindar
01-26-2011, 04:34 PM
I think he's kind of the underappreciated girlfriend you let go, and then later realize you made a mistake on when the crazy girl you're dating is blacked out on a pool table for the third time that semester.

Stability is sexy, but only after you're done with crazy.

PacersPride
01-26-2011, 04:36 PM
I nver wanted to see Carlisle let go. I remember Granger gave the man a huge hug after the last game before he was let go. Carlisle had a few flaws, that being his tight reign on the offense.. but as the messages indicated below, do you really trust that group of players to run what they want.. too much inexperience and immaturity.

i prefer a coach who chooses to have the offense pass the ball around, it makes the defense work, which tires them out during a game. we have a coach who wants the ball shot in under 6 seconds.. puzzling? i do not want to make this a RC vs JOB thread but i had to get my jab in.

I honestly think Carlisle burned out here. The brawl, all of Artests shananineggans, and Reggie retiring; RC needed to recharge. Hard to imagine anyone wanted RC gone.. i would like to read those archived threads, but RC coached outstanding while he was here.

maybe following Thomas though helps a coach always look better.. the same could be said of Obrien for the next coach in here.

xIndyFan
01-26-2011, 04:39 PM
rick is fun to watch, until he calls the 97th play out of 100 possessions. actually it was more likely the 70th play out of 75 possessions. made for a slow game. pretty sure with the pacer youth, rick's calling a play every :censored: time down the floor would not work. the pacers cannot run an offense in the last half of the 4th quarter now, not much chance the players could run it the whole game. i personally would like to see more running and less walking the ball up the court.

Justin Tyme
01-26-2011, 04:47 PM
I know people in Texas who would love to see Carlisle coaching somewhere else other than in Dallas.

If Carlisle was the Pacers coach, you would hear about him not playing rookies and his love for vets... same as it was 5-6 years ago. Oh, lets not forget the "little piece of paper" always in his hand he has to look at either. It was time for Carlisle to go same as it's time for O'Brien to go. The difference is 4 years later you won't see PD posters asking to bring back Jimmy.

BillS
01-26-2011, 05:01 PM
The difference is 4 years later you won't see PD posters asking to bring back Jimmy.

Let's certainly hope not. After all, did you ever expect people to look back on Isiah Thomas with fondness and longing?

Unclebuck
01-26-2011, 05:23 PM
The difference is 4 years later you won't see PD posters asking to bring back Jimmy.

If the pacers hire a coach who plays a very slow style of offense, I bet within 6 months someone will long for the days of JOB. That poster might not be a member today, but it will happen

ilive4sports
01-26-2011, 05:32 PM
Let's certainly hope not. After all, did you ever expect people to look back on Isiah Thomas with fondness and longing?

I dont think we look back at Isiah with a fondness and longing right now. I think we just would prefer him over JOB. That speaks to the level of JOB more than Isiah.

For me when Rick was fired, it was the right move. Things were going the wrong way and it definitely wasn't all Rick's fault. He was just a minor piece to it. Larry Bird said 3 years in a place is long enough. And I agree. I wish he did it with JOB too. Of course there are exceptions, but it seems like after 3 years things can get stagnant.

I would love a slower offense too. An offense actually based around Roy (especially because he is such a good passer) and has a lot of pick n rolls for Collison would be absolutely lovely. Hell I would love an offense that wasn't give the ball to Danny and see what he can do. Run Danny around like we did with Reggie with some iso's mixed in.

MTM
01-26-2011, 05:41 PM
Let's certainly hope not. After all, did you ever expect people to look back on Isiah Thomas with fondness and longing?

I am so disappointed in JOB, but I will take him over Thomas every single day. JOB is a guy I respect, and I like his sideline demeanor during games. Everything else I disagree with is basketball preference type stuff, not major character issues and hurting the reputation of the franchise by his presence.

Kegboy
01-26-2011, 06:03 PM
If the pacers hire a coach who plays a very slow style of offense, I bet within 6 months someone will long for the days of JOB. That poster might not be a member today, but it will happen

I won't long for the days of JOB, but I don't want a 70-65 game anymore than I want a 130-125 game. Is it too much to ask for a little balance?

90'sNBARocked
01-26-2011, 06:12 PM
Why didnt we fire Bird and keep RC?

d_c
01-26-2011, 08:23 PM
Here is a poll about who wanrted a new head coach. 61 -19 against Rick
http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=29669

Wow. Just wow.

Spirit
01-26-2011, 08:48 PM
I regret campaigning for him to get fired. O'Brien is destroying the Pacers as we know it.

Naptown_Seth
01-26-2011, 11:37 PM
Except for the ones who don't respond because they get upset that he doesn't trust their own instincts and abilities because he controls the floor.

Everyone's mileage varies, but there was an awful lot of speculation about players who tuned out Rick because he wouldn't open up the offense to their abilities.
Tinsley. You're taking the side of Tinsley and Harrington in a battle with a top 5 voted COY 4 times over and holder of the most regular season wins as a Pacers coach (and tied with Larry for season+playoffs total I think).


Revisionist. People, and it wasn't a majority I don't think, felt like Rick had lost the team. JOB was done with the Tins project 3-4 months into it.


Ron Artest talked about how he realized he didn't appreciate Rick enough. As mentioned Jackson and Rick are good friends. Rick has always been one of the better coaches when it comes to not trashing players out in the press.


We freaking fired Rick for 3 months of bad basketball featuring a mid-season trade that brought in Dun and Troy while they were in the midst of not very good seasons in Oakland, and added them to injured JO and whatever was wrong with Tinsley.

Of all the decisions the last 4 years, that swap of Rick for JOB has to be one of the worst ever. If people actually paid attention to the Pacers nationally we'd be made fun of all the time for this decision.

In fact had Detroit not gotten the freebie Rasheed midway through their title year I think they'd have ended up forever regretting sending Rick packing for Brown as they would have watched Rick steal the ECF from them with also-ran Indy.

Naptown_Seth
01-26-2011, 11:47 PM
I know people in Texas who would love to see Carlisle coaching somewhere else other than in Dallas.

If Carlisle was the Pacers coach, you would hear about him not playing rookies and his love for vets... same as it was 5-6 years ago. Oh, lets not forget the "little piece of paper" always in his hand he has to look at either. It was time for Carlisle to go same as it's time for O'Brien to go. The difference is 4 years later you won't see PD posters asking to bring back Jimmy.
Which I've proven is a total fallacy 10 times over. ONE PLAYER - Prince. And that Pistons team featured another rookie getting something like 2000 minutes.

Fred Jones got THREE TIMES the PT in year 2 with Rick as he did with Isiah.

Ron Artest made ONE all-star team and won DPOY ONE time - with Rick.


Rick was a classic case where facts didn't back the stories detractors started spreading until people heard them so much they became truth in their minds.


And as for calling a lot of plays, who gives a s*** if they freaking work. There was a reason he was Bird's offensive coach, he kinda knew what he was doing and planning.


Plus isn't it a miracle that all these teams win, often above expectations, while not wanting the coach around. And if there are people in Texas who don't like the idea of being one of the top 3-4 teams in the NBA and would prefer Rick be gone then by all means send him this way. Maybe the Mavs can rehire Avery.

Talk about stupid and fickle. It's bad enough when people have iffy opinions, but when you can't even change those opinions with facts and results...well how can I possibly respect opinions like those. You might as well say it's time to get rid of Pop or Sloan.

Sandman21
01-26-2011, 11:58 PM
I miss Rick. Maybe if Dallas wants him gone so bad, we can arrange a deal...... ;)

Heck, JOB would sure love it, he'd even get precious his stretch forward out of it!

rexnom
01-27-2011, 01:55 AM
I'm really, really happy for Rick in general, actually. I didn't want to see him fired but his time here was up.

Ant
01-27-2011, 03:12 AM
We didn't realize how good we had it then. Each game didnt feel like a continuous nightmare.