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Mackey_Rose
01-26-2011, 01:27 PM
I posted this in another thread, but the more I think about it, and how mad it makes me, the more I think it deserves it's own place to discuss the point by itself.

What do you all think about this method of handling things?



5. He probably communicates to his players better than he does to the public or the press.

I was with you Peck, until this point. O'Brien has effectively stopped communicating with his players, other than as a group in practices, film sessions, or at games.

There is literally zero one-on-one communication between an individual player and the coach.

The biggest thing that blew my mind regarding this subject is the way O'Brien handles his ever-changing inactive list. He doesn't even have the guts to be the guy to inform the players that it is "their turn" to throw on a suit for the night.

Say it is a home game like tonight starting at 7. The players will usually have a shoot around, or as O'Brien likes to do for some reason, they will have a full practice in the morning before the game. Usually they will be done before noon, and then the players will head home and take a nap or do whatever they do to prepare for a game night. At this point, they still have no idea which 12 are active, and which 3 are inactive.

They return to the Fieldhouse between 4 and 5. When they return, in an incredibly cowardly move, the head trainer will then inform them if they have won the active/inactive lottery for the night.

Not O'Brien. Not an assistant coach. Not any other basketball person. The trainer.

O'Brien is not man enough to be the one to tell them so he passes along the duty to this trainer. He could easily do it during the morning workout when they go over the game plan for the night, or he could easily do it in the locker room when the team returns that night. But he doesn't have the balls, so he makes his trainer do it.

Sookie
01-26-2011, 01:32 PM
I don't think it makes him a coward.

I think it makes him a guy that sees himself above the team. They aren't important enough for him to communicate with. I think he's arrogant.

So I assume this means that, as well as TJ not having any idea until shoot around that he would not be playing, AJ didn't know he would be playing either?

How about Josh, did he have any clue he'd be going from Starter to inactive in the bat of an eye?

Just wondering.

Peck
01-26-2011, 01:33 PM
Ok, so this is news to me.

I know how you know so I won't question you on this.

If this is the case, this is just pathetic of O'Brien.

BTW, is this new or is this how he has always done it?

BillS
01-26-2011, 01:34 PM
While I respect your connections based on previous conversations, there's an awful lot of emotional coloration in the post and the poll question.

I personally think it seems like the wrong way to handle things, but to go as far as "cowardly" would require a more first-hand knowledge of how it is done and whether the procedure has been consistent throughout JOB's entire tenure.

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 01:35 PM
I can't believe the players have absolutely zero knowledge has to who will be dressing and who won't be dressing that night.

Mackey_Rose
01-26-2011, 01:40 PM
I don't think it makes him a coward.

I think it makes him a guy that sees himself above the team. They aren't important enough for him to communicate with. I think he's arrogant.

This is a very good possible explanation. All of his actions make this seem about right. I agree with you, and I'm going with this. It's an arrogance issue.


So I assume this means that, as well as TJ not having any idea until shoot around that he would not be playing, AJ didn't know he would be playing either?

You assume correctly. Neither player knew before that Warriors game that AJ would be the first point guard off the bench. I'm sure AJ was surprised he was even active, then when O'Brien told him to check-in, I'm sure he was shocked.


How about Josh, did he have any clue he'd be going from Starter to inactive in the bat of an eye?

No clue. It was never discussed between the team and coaches. As far as he knew, he was playing well and the job was still his. Likewise, Tyler was never even told he would be inserted into the starting lineup.

They found out the same we we did. By reading Bruno's article on Pacers.com. Seriously.

MyFavMartin
01-26-2011, 01:43 PM
JOB needs to man up and order a Miller Light?

spazzxb
01-26-2011, 01:46 PM
Explain to me why you are the one person who can say all of this without any sources?
Obviously Peck gave you a pass, so whats the deal?

Since86
01-26-2011, 01:49 PM
Because it's obvious to the rest of us that he has inside sources. How else would he have started talking about Josh's campaign and the whole "White Men Can't Jump" theme before it was ever announced publically?

cdash
01-26-2011, 01:49 PM
Yeah, I'm with spazz on this. How do you know this stuff? Even if it is true...I don't know the guy. I'm not going to call him a coward. I'll say that I disagree with his methods, but coward is pretty strong.

Mackey_Rose
01-26-2011, 01:50 PM
Ok, so this is news to me.

I know how you know so I won't question you on this.

If this is the case, this is just pathetic of O'Brien.

BTW, is this new or is this how he has always done it?

This is how he has done it the whole season.

In past seasons, it wasn't a big deal because there were only three, and at the most maybe four guys, who even needed to consider being inactive. So all those guys were usually pretty prepared for it.

This season, it could pretty much be anybody with only a few exceptions.

Unclebuck
01-26-2011, 01:52 PM
Ok, this is the type of stuff that makes me angry. No not Jim O'Brien, but this thread does. Criticize his coaching if you want that is fair game, but to get personal like this thread is I think is hitting below the belt.

I'll ignore this thread from now on.

Looks like Ford was told during shoot around

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110125/SPORTS04/101250340/1062/SPORTS04/Pacers-guard-Ford-takes-latest-demotion-stride
By Mike Wells

Ford showed up ready for the team's shootaround prior to last week's game at Golden State when he was told not to worry about taking part.

Bball
01-26-2011, 01:53 PM
I'd go with the arrogant, aloof angle more than the coward angle on this. If there wasn't a thousand other things O'Brien does that I don't agree with then I could give him a pass on something like this.

What I'd really like to know is if he's just as confusing and contradictory to the players as to what he wants as it seems to be to us watching from the outside.

graphic-er
01-26-2011, 01:53 PM
I'm going to play the otherside here and just say. Shouldn't they prepare to play even if they end up on the bench, don't you want them to prepare as if they are going to play? Does it matter when they find out if they play?

I guess you right that JOB should announce the list himself.

Since86
01-26-2011, 02:00 PM
Looks like Ford was told during shoot around

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110125/SPORTS04/101250340/1062/SPORTS04/Pacers-guard-Ford-takes-latest-demotion-stride
By Mike Wells

Ford showed up ready for the team's shootaround prior to last week's game at Golden State when he was told not to worry about taking part.


It doesn't say who told him.

Unclebuck
01-26-2011, 02:07 PM
It doesn't say who told him.

Mackey also said that the player wasn't told at shootarounds, but 4 or 5 PM when they arrive for the game. Appears like with Ford he was told at shootaround

How common is it for other head coaches to tell players who is on inactive list. I haven't the slightest idea

Speed
01-26-2011, 02:09 PM
I mean coward? Thats strong.

It's not how I would do it, nor is it cowardly, imo.

Hicks
01-26-2011, 02:11 PM
I think it's pretty tacky to call this thread "O'Brien is a Coward". Especially considering it was meant to ASK if other people thought so, and then to have you yourself say you don't think he is, but rather that he's arrogant.

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 02:13 PM
Because it's obvious to the rest of us that he has inside sources. How else would he have started talking about Josh's campaign and the whole "White Men Can't Jump" theme before it was ever announced publically?



Well Rush did tweet the pic of him and JMac in "White Men Can't Jump" gear months ago...

However Mackey does have his sources, and while I feel there is some truth to what we're hearing here, I also feel like there may be some emotion clouding the full truth.

Since86
01-26-2011, 02:15 PM
Mackey also said that the player wasn't told at shootarounds, but 4 or 5 PM when they arrive for the game. Appears like with Ford he was told at shootaround

How common is it for other head coaches to tell players who is on inactive list. I haven't the slightest idea

Well, it also doesn't say WHEN the shoot around was either. I'm not saying I'm judging it either way, just that Mackey has told us inside information, with the only possible way of knowing that information was to have inside information.

Like I said earlier, the whole Josh dunk campaign pretty much solidified that question for me. Not only knowing what they were going to do, but saying he saw it beforehand, and knowing when exactly was going to be released.

Too much info spread out over mutliple days, and information that was time sensitive (like not only when it was going to be released, when slam mag was going to get it, and the fact that you would need certain types of browsers to see it at first) to be just a rumor he grabbed and passed along. He clearly has day-to-day knowledge of what is going on behind the scenes.

vnzla81
01-26-2011, 02:16 PM
Yeah even though I voted that he is a coward, I think that "coward" is an strong word, I would change it for arrogant and stubborn SOB, he is pretty much the type of guy you don't want as your boss.

Mackey_Rose
01-26-2011, 02:17 PM
I think it's pretty tacky to call this thread "O'Brien is a Coward". Especially considering it was meant to ASK if other people thought so, and then to have you yourself say you don't think he is, but rather that he's arrogant.

Can you change the thread title then? I wrote it before I even considered adding a poll onto it.

I don't want the poll title taking away from the discussion, so please change it to end the confusion.

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 02:18 PM
You assume correctly. Neither player knew before that Clippers game that AJ would be the first point guard off the bench. I'm sure AJ was surprised he was even active, then when O'Brien told him to check-in, I'm sure he was shocked.





Ignoring the fact that AJ didn't even play in the Clippers game and assuming that this is just a typo where you meant to say Warriors, UB's quote pretty much contradicts what you're saying.

Mackey_Rose
01-26-2011, 02:19 PM
Mackey also said that the player wasn't told at shootarounds, but 4 or 5 PM when they arrive for the game. Appears like with Ford he was told at shootaround

How common is it for other head coaches to tell players who is on inactive list. I haven't the slightest idea

I said, that's what happens at home games.

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 02:20 PM
Of course, now that I re-read that quote from Wells, it is very likely he could be referring to the shoot around IMMEDIATELY before the game as he does not specify a time. I need to chew on this a little bit I think.

Peck
01-26-2011, 02:20 PM
Can you change the thread title then? I wrote it before I even considered adding a poll onto it.

I don't want the poll title taking away from the discussion, so please change it to end the confusion.

You can change the title as well. Just to go edit and then go to advanced settings.

Or I can change it for you if you tell me what you want it to say.

Mackey_Rose
01-26-2011, 02:24 PM
Ignoring the fact that AJ didn't even play in the Clippers game and assuming that this is just a typo where you meant to say Warriors, UB's quote pretty much contradicts what you're saying.

My bad, it was a typo. I meant the Warriors game.


So I think in this case, I have to believe that either you or your source is bending the truth here to make O'Brien look worse.

And while agree he isn't a very good coach for us, I think that bending the truth to try and prove a point is wrong, especially when people like me, have put in faith into your inside info before this time. Now I must say I have to wonder if all of it hasn't been bent just a little bit here or there.

They don't follow the same schedule on the road. UB's quote didn't contradict anything. They also have a shoot around immediately before the game. For home games, this is when the players find out. When they come back for the pre-game shoot around. It looks like from reading what Wells wrote, that's when TJ found out too.

I'm not bending the truth at all.

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 02:26 PM
I retracted that second part as it came off a bit harsh anyway. And after re-reading the quote, it doesn't necessarily contradict your comments.

The 20 minutes before the game is in fact a shoot around.

90'sNBARocked
01-26-2011, 02:30 PM
If anyone is listening right now

JMV is RIPPING Jim a new one

Had 3 callers in a row threaten not to renew their season tickets if Jim is coach next year

JMV said "yeah thats your priority" then clicked on him

Peck
01-26-2011, 02:33 PM
If anyone is listening right now

JMV is RIPPING Jim a new one

Had 3 callers in a row threaten not to renew their season tickets if Jim is coach next year

JMV said "yeah thats your priority" then clicked on him

Well, what's he saying?

Speed
01-26-2011, 02:36 PM
JMV said "yeah thats your priority" then clicked on him

Prerogative?

Since86
01-26-2011, 02:39 PM
And JMV isn't on right now, it's Dakich.

vnzla81
01-26-2011, 02:47 PM
And JMV isn't on right now, it's Dakich.

I was thinking the same thing.

90'sNBARocked
01-26-2011, 02:52 PM
Well, what's he saying?

Paraphrasing here

He talked about how Jim is a very poor comunicator with the players, and he knows for a fact that at least a couple Pacers have completely tuned him out. He also Jim sounds like a desperate man fighting for his job, but baring a miraculous run, wont be here next year

He said he believes Bird has had a plan, and that Jim staying around was more a "Simon thing ", then a "Bird Thing"

He said Jim has mentally ruined Josh, Roy and possibly DC. He mentioned his poor record over 4 years and that Jim had no other coaching options when he was given the head coaching job here

JMV said his main beef with Jim is he is two faced. He says one thing then does another

And he ripped a couple fans

90'sNBARocked
01-26-2011, 02:54 PM
I was thinking the same thing.

I clearly heard him being called JMV. I could be wrong but I dont think its Dackich on

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 02:54 PM
If Josh, Roy and possibly DC are "mentally ruined" then they were already a bunch of Sally's before they got here then.

Since86
01-26-2011, 02:57 PM
I clearly heard him being called JMV. I could be wrong but I dont think its Dackich on

I'm listening to it now, it's Dan Dakich. JMV doesn't come on for another hour.

Dakich is on from noon-4pm, JMV from 4 til 8(?). (I go to my second job at 5 and listen to him on the way there, but I don't know when exactly the show is over)

EDIT: Which actually gives him a little bit more credibility, IMHO. Dan has been a head coach in college, and was an assistant under Sampson at IU.

You might not think he's a "good" coach but he's clearly inside the coaching circle, and knows a lot about what goes on behind the scenes in different areas.

BPump33
01-26-2011, 02:58 PM
I'm listening to it now, it's Dan Dakich. JMV doesn't come on for another hour.

Dakich is on from noon-4pm, JMV from 4 til 8(?). (I go to my second job at 5 and listen to him on the way there, but I don't know when exactly the show is over)

JMV comes on at 3.

vnzla81
01-26-2011, 02:58 PM
I clearly heard him being called JMV. I could be wrong but I dont think its Dackich on

DD was on until 10 seconds ago, he is also the only one that rips on fans or callers, I heard when he was saying that Jim should try to be more positive instead of trying to be so negative.

Trophy
01-26-2011, 03:01 PM
He said Jim has mentally ruined Josh, Roy and possibly DC. He mentioned his poor record over 4 years and that Jim had no other coaching options when he was given the head coaching job here

I feel like a new coach can improve these players and let them play how they're comfortable.

Since86
01-26-2011, 04:20 PM
JMV is now talking Pacers BTW, and mentioned PD.

Mostly about Jeff Foster, saying he likes Jeff but if he's a big part of your solution, then as a team you're screwed. Basically.

Sookie
01-26-2011, 04:27 PM
If Josh, Roy and possibly DC are "mentally ruined" then they were already a bunch of Sally's before they got here then.

I disagree completely with this. Although I suppose we'd have to define "mentally ruined." They would probably appear as much different players under a different coach.

The Darren Collison I saw at the begining of the season, was cocky..he believed this was his team, that he was a top player on this team, that he could do this job. That was easily my favorite thing about him.

I'm not seeing the same D.C. ...even though he has been playing well (with the exception of the past two games). And even though JOB hasn't been publically smashing him. He looks completely different.

But to make like a coach can't effect the mind of a young player to an extreme amount, is just silly. We'll repeat what we've been saying. Roy Hibbert has been seeing a sports psychologist. How effed up is that?

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 04:30 PM
Is that really JOB though? At one point do you say to DC that he's got to man up. Having confidence when everything is going your way is easy. It's called being a front runner.

Sookie
01-26-2011, 04:41 PM
Is that really JOB though? At one point do you say to DC that he's got to man up. Having confidence when everything is going your way is easy. It's called being a front runner.

I don't know, I don't know what is being said to DC behind closed doors.

But I have a feeling that it's not pretty. We've seen JOB get nasty with the younger guys and TJ in the press. (He plays favorites..which is a problem..) Generally, what you say to the press is a lot lighter than what you say behind closed doors.

Do I know that. No I don't. But I've watched the body language of those three people, as well as a few others and it's certainly not good. And when we have multiple sources saying O'brien has something to do with it, we have O'brien being tactless to the press, and O'brien being a ****ty coach in all other areas..I have to say, whether I'm biased or not, I have to give some credit too it.

This is not saying, that young guys shouldn't be yelled at. I'm not saying that, I doubt anyone is. I'm saying, it seems like O'brien..with all of his crap..has gone beyond that, and it's hurting the younger guys. And the fact that it's hurting the younger guys doesn't mean that the younger guys have to toughen up. It's means O'brien is a poor coach who also happens to be a bully.

Hoop
01-26-2011, 05:32 PM
If Josh, Roy and possibly DC are "mentally ruined" then they were already a bunch of Sally's before they got here then.
I don't think they mean literally "mentally ruined for life", just while they are coached by this crazy guy.

I think it means they have no idea what this crazy coach wants from them, there's is no way to please him, he never makes any sense, so they have just said f**k it and mentally checked out.

How can anyone blame them? I'm shocked the team has stayed "together" this long.

Unclebuck
01-26-2011, 05:38 PM
I don't think they mean literally "mentally ruined for life", just while they are coached by this crazy guy.

I think it means they have no idea what this crazy coach wants from them, there's is no way to please him, he never makes any sense, so they have just said f**k it and mentally checked out.

How can anyone blame them? I'm shocked the team has stayed "together" this long.

Yeah, I don't know how they get out of bed everyday having to put up with the big bad O'Brien. These poor Indiana Pacers players

Hasn't DC played rather well lately. maybe I missed it

Hoop
01-26-2011, 05:46 PM
Hasn't DC played rather well lately. maybe I missed it
DC may have just played his 2 worse games in a Pacer uniform, the last 2 games against Portland and Denver, so yes you did miss it.

PacersPride
01-26-2011, 05:52 PM
JMV is now talking Pacers BTW, and mentioned PD.

Mostly about Jeff Foster, saying he likes Jeff but if he's a big part of your solution, then as a team you're screwed. Basically.

where does he gather foster is a "big part of the solution.?" makes no sense, foster is a very servicable backup PF/C who younger players can learn from. Where the hell does anyone getoff on talking negatively about fiesty foster.. other than him dealing with the injuries foster has done everything and more as a member of the Indiana Pacers.

in regard to Obrien, at this point he is not being let go mid season, and likely will not be back next year either if any of the recent reports are accurate. do we really need another bash Obrien thread.? like the players, its time to tune out Obrien on PD as well imho.

90'sNBARocked
01-26-2011, 06:19 PM
I disagree completely with this. Although I suppose we'd have to define "mentally ruined." They would probably appear as much different players under a different coach.

The Darren Collison I saw at the begining of the season, was cocky..he believed this was his team, that he was a top player on this team, that he could do this job. That was easily my favorite thing about him.

I'm not seeing the same D.C. ...even though he has been playing well (with the exception of the past two games). And even though JOB hasn't been publically smashing him. He looks completely different.

But to make like a coach can't effect the mind of a young player to an extreme amount, is just silly. We'll repeat what we've been saying. Roy Hibbert has been seeing a sports psychologist. How effed up is that?


Spot on Sookie

Its like asking an innocent man to accept his jail term and "just deal with it"

regardless of the millions they make, they are still human, and all this says to me is Jim's biggest weakness is keeping players motivated

PaceBalls
01-26-2011, 06:26 PM
Spot on Sookie

Its like asking an innocent man to accept his jail term and "just deal with it"

regardless of the millions they make, they are still human, and all this says to me is Jim's biggest weakness is keeping players motivated

It's not like that at all.
You just equated dudes that make millions of dollars playing a game having to listen to so some tactless comments by their coach to innocent men in prison being told to deal with it... srsly?

:crazy:

PaceBalls
01-26-2011, 06:28 PM
Yeah, I don't know how they get out of bed everyday having to put up with the big bad O'Brien. These poor Indiana Pacers players

Hasn't DC played rather well lately. maybe I missed it

UB, It is getting so ridiculous I am starting to find myself defending Jim. I mean our players just got compared to innocent men in prison because of our coach.

90'sNBARocked
01-26-2011, 06:33 PM
It's not like that at all.
You just equated dudes that make millions of dollars playing a game having to listen to so some tactless comments by their coach to innocent men in prison being told to deal with it... srsly?

:crazy:

OK, I admit it probably wasnt the best analysis, however,

My point was , to me, it's ludicrous to think because they are professionals, millionaires, or whatever , they are expected to perform at a top level while being subjected to endless mind fuks, public ridicule, and merciless bashing

PaceBalls
01-26-2011, 06:33 PM
Spot on Sookie

Its like asking an innocent man to accept his jail term and "just deal with it"

regardless of the millions they make, they are still human, and all this says to me is Jim's biggest weakness is keeping players motivated

Reflecting on this after a few minutes, I came to the conclusion that my sarcasm detector was probably not working. Right?? You can't really be serious. I mean I guess I initially thought you were cause things have gotten so out of hand on this board. It was inevitable that someone would say something so outrageous and mean it.

So if this is sarcasm... LOL
and if you were serious ... well LOL @ that too... even more.

90'sNBARocked
01-26-2011, 07:10 PM
Reflecting on this after a few minutes, I came to the conclusion that my sarcasm detector was probably not working. Right?? You can't really be serious. I mean I guess I initially thought you were cause things have gotten so out of hand on this board. It was inevitable that someone would say something so outrageous and mean it.

So if this is sarcasm... LOL
and if you were serious ... well LOL @ that too... even more.

I love to laugh bro, for any reason :)

Life is tough enough

Bball
01-27-2011, 02:38 AM
I don't think the analogy is as far off the mark as you're making out to be. 90's was just trying to think of something where you have no choice but to accept the status quo even though it sucks... and then you're expected to ignore how bad everything sucks and be mentally 'in a good place'. ...to be inspired ... to be happy and motivated... to be singularly focused on goals as if everything was great....

Johnny Strange
01-27-2011, 07:13 AM
I wish someone would make JOB inactive. I don't care who tells him, when they tell him, or how they tell him.

Bird should tweet him right now to sit the next one out!

Johnny Strange
01-27-2011, 07:23 AM
At this point the Pacer players are well aware of how JOB handles things. It's obvious they don't respect him and don't play hard for him. Why does it really matter when Josh and TJ are told they aren't dressing? The guys on the bench have no idea if they are going to play 2 minutes or 30 minutes. Some of them probably don't know what position they will be playing.

Unclebuck
01-27-2011, 09:29 AM
OK, I admit it probably wasnt the best analysis, however,

My point was , to me, it's ludicrous to think because they are professionals, millionaires, or whatever , they are expected to perform at a top level while being subjected to endless mind fuks, public ridicule, and merciless bashing

I think all that doesn't even register. What does register with the player is losing - they have lost confidence in themselves, eachother and the coaching staff that is what has happened. IMO it has almost nothing to do with (I'll use your words) being subjected to endless mind fuks, public ridicule, and merciless bashing

Trader Joe
01-27-2011, 09:31 AM
In the past 5 years of this bologna, I haven't seen a player with worse body language than what I saw from Hibbert last night sitting behind the Pacers bench. The guy is just not right in the head at all. He's not wired for this.

Sookie
01-27-2011, 10:32 AM
I think all that doesn't even register. What does register with the player is losing - they have lost confidence in themselves, eachother and the coaching staff that is what has happened. IMO it has almost nothing to do with (I'll use your words) being subjected to endless mind fuks, public ridicule, and merciless bashing

Then you really haven't been paying attention to how Roy handles things.

Maybe instead of Roy "not being able to handle things" the coach should act like a coach and use proper methods of motivation.

I'm not saying it's all on JOB. I'm saying he's part of the problem and making it worse.

edit: Also, Roy put in a TON of work this summer to get better, and he's playing poorly right now and has no idea why. That would put a player in a bad mental state to begin with.

Mackey_Rose
01-27-2011, 10:38 AM
Then you really haven't been paying attention to how Roy handles things.

Maybe instead of Roy "not being able to handle things" the coach should act like a coach and use proper methods of motivation.

I'm not saying it's all on JOB. I'm saying he's part of the problem and making it worse.

Even if you don't agree and think none of the blame belongs with JOB, he definitely isn't doing anything to make it better.

Isn't it the coach's job to make his team better? For a piece as important to this team's success as Roy is, improving Roy's mindset should be priority number one.

Since86
01-27-2011, 12:53 PM
Quite frankly, I think UncleBuck has checked out mentally.

I don't know how in the world you can say that losing is the only thing that registered. I must have missed the past times in the past two years when Roy felt the need to hire professional help.

I don't know how many more times I can say it. The explanations have jumped the shark, hit rockbottom, whatever else you want to fill in the blank with. Your choice.

90'sNBARocked
01-27-2011, 12:57 PM
I think all that doesn't even register. What does register with the player is losing - they have lost confidence in themselves, eachother and the coaching staff that is what has happened. IMO it has almost nothing to do with (I'll use your words) being subjected to endless mind fuks, public ridicule, and merciless bashing

you could be right UB, or I could, we dont really know

I just think that Jim has been a poor motivator in the last two years here

no matter the reason, it seems the players have been worn down by him

judicata
01-27-2011, 01:32 PM
What a ridiculous thread. He's a poor coach and probably a poor communicator. That doesn't mean he is a coward, and a flame baiting post by anonymous angry forum posters that cite one aspect of his coaching style cannot change that.

The bottom line is the team is losing. That should be enough for folks to be unhappy with the coaching. If the team were losing and he were coddling players then this thread would call him a coward because he didn't have the stones to call out his players, or some other nonsense.

PaceBalls
01-27-2011, 01:57 PM
What a ridiculous thread. He's a poor coach and probably a poor communicator. That doesn't mean he is a coward, and a flame baiting post by anonymous angry forum posters that cite one aspect of his coaching style cannot change that.

The bottom line is the team is losing. That should be enough for folks to be unhappy with the coaching. If the team were losing and he were coddling players then this thread would call him a coward because he didn't have the stones to call out his players, or some other nonsense.

Thank god there are a few reasonable posters left.
I mean as if there weren't enough REAL things to complain about, now people are calling him a coward, a mental abuser, comparing his players to innocent prisoners... good greif.

Johnny Strange
01-27-2011, 02:43 PM
I am assuming you all have jobs, but if you have a manager that jacks employees around and was publicly critical every time something wasn't perfect you probably wouldnt perform as well. Over time your motivation would drop. Would you voluntarily put in the extra hours for that person or company? No way. Your watching the clock cuz you can't wait to get out of there. If something even remotely better comes along your quitting!

That doesn't make you a mental turd. I think it makes you normal. I know, but they make millions. Big deal! It's all relative.

Right now the Pacers don't enjoy the work environment. The boss, JOB, is an inconsistent tool, he publicly criticizes mistakes, blames others, promotes you one day and the the next day your making coffee, and to top it off doesn't have a clue what he is doing. Sounds like a great place to work!

Peck
02-05-2011, 04:10 AM
Not that we should keep beating a dead horse but I found D. Jones interview with Dahnari in the post game revealing and frankly has done nothing but add fuel to the fire that Mackey started here.

Obviously it is now very apperant that BillS & even myself were dead wrong here, Jim did not communicate or at the very least did not do a good job of communicating to his players. In particular players who he didn't have much use for.

Skip past Paul and listen to D. Jones (well actually you should listen to both)

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/rewind_110204.html

BRushWithDeath
02-05-2011, 01:48 PM
Not that we should keep beating a dead horse but I found D. Jones interview with Dahnari in the post game revealing and frankly has done nothing but add fuel to the fire that Mackey started here.

Obviously it is now very apperant that BillS & even myself were dead wrong here, Jim did not communicate or at the very least did not do a good job of communicating to his players. In particular players who he didn't have much use for.

Skip past Paul and listen to D. Jones (well actually you should listen to both)

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/rewind_110204.html

The communication between the coaches and the players was nonexistent a week ago. That has completely changed.

Mackey, as usual, was 100% correct.

Mackey_Rose
02-05-2011, 02:32 PM
Obviously a few of you thought I was just trying to stir the pot with this thread, or "flame bait," but I can assure you that was never my intention. I posted the information I posted because it was a telling example of the kind of communication that went on behind the scenes between players and coach.

Luckily, Vogel has a very good relationship with his team, and this is one of many problems that have been remedied with the long overdue coaching change.

He may not have the background or pedigree that most coaches do, but the man believes in his team, and they believe in him. Losses will come, and there will be some bad ones, but the difference in confidence and communication level between players and coach is something that can not be overstated.

Like Johnny Strange so astutely pointe out, these guys may be millionaires, but they are still people. People skills matter, and JOB had none with his players, either privately or publicly. That matters folks.

Unclebuck
02-05-2011, 07:36 PM
I still wonder how often the head coach of NBA teams discuss with the player who will be inactive. I doubt many of he head coaches bother with it

I could be wrong.

Not to suggest the communication between JOB and the players was good. But I just thought using the inactive list as an example to prove the point as probably a little unfair

Day-V
02-05-2011, 07:57 PM
Mackey for PD Rookie of the Year.

Mackey_Rose
02-06-2011, 01:09 AM
I still wonder how often the head coach of NBA teams discuss with the player who will be inactive. I doubt many of he head coaches bother with it

I could be wrong.

Not to suggest the communication between JOB and the players was good. But I just thought using the inactive list as an example to prove the point as probably a little unfair

You doubt that many coaches bother discussing their players' roles with the players directly?

You should not.

King Tuts Tomb
02-06-2011, 02:33 AM
You doubt that many coaches bother discussing their players' roles with the players directly?

You should not.

Who knows? Apparently the Pistons head coach didn't bother to talk to Rip at all about not playing for a month. Some of these coaches are out to lunch.

pacer4ever
02-06-2011, 02:41 AM
Who knows? Apparently the Pistons head coach didn't bother to talk to Rip at all about not playing for a month. Some of these coaches are out to lunch.

Kuester is as bad of coach as JOB. Kuester would be fired already . But the

Pistons cant make any $$ decsions until the ownership changes hands. Sucks

for Pistons fans tuff siuation.

Peck
02-06-2011, 03:17 AM
I still wonder how often the head coach of NBA teams discuss with the player who will be inactive. I doubt many of he head coaches bother with it

I could be wrong.

Not to suggest the communication between JOB and the players was good. But I just thought using the inactive list as an example to prove the point as probably a little unfair

When you have superstar teams or at the very least a team that has a superstar player with a couple of other really good or borderline star players then you are probably right. Probably during training camp the coach will either meet with the deep bench player once and let him know what he expects of him or he may even assign that to an assistant.

However when you have a team that your 3rd best player is not that far above your 10th best player and you are going to be rotating lineups, then yea you better be communicating and letting everyone know what is going on.

In partcular if you are going to have a player go from starting to being DNP-CD to being inactive. You might want to let that guy know what's up.

Unclebuck
02-06-2011, 08:58 AM
You doubt that many coaches bother discussing their players' roles with the players directly?

You should not.

Come on, I never suggested such a thing. I was refering specifically to the inactive list and how head coaches communicate with the players regarding who is inactive. And I would guess, yes gues that a number of head coaches don;t ake the time before every game to discus who will be on the list with those players

Of course many/most head coaches do and should discuss their players roles with the players. Howver what is more important is fo the coach to follow through on what is discused

Don't put words in my posts.

Mackey_Rose
02-06-2011, 11:38 AM
Come on, I never suggested such a thing. I was refering specifically to the inactive list and how head coaches communicate with the players regarding who is inactive. And I would guess, yes gues that a number of head coaches don;t ake the time before every game to discus who will be on the list with those players

Of course many/most head coaches do and should discuss their players roles with the players. Howver what is more important is fo the coach to follow through on what is discused

Don't put words in my posts.

Most coaches do not rotate the inactive list every game either. It isn't Little League. Everybody does not need to take a turn. That is ridiculous.

If a player is inactive when that is not normally the case, his role has changed. Why would a coach, worth his weight in salt, not take the time to discuss this role change with the player?

The conversations do not need to be hours long. It would take less than 5 minutes to sit down with the player, man-to-man, and discuss the situation. Tell him why he's being inactivated. Tell him what is expected of him while he is inactive. Tell him what he needs to work on to become an active member of the team again.

Of course when as many as 7 or 8 different guys could be inactive on any given night, that makes it harder. But I don't know any other coach that has ever handled things like that.

The McRoberts/Hansbrough case is particularly damning, and the cause of this thread. Let's just recap things in case you missed it.

Josh starts for more than a third of the season, including playing big minutes for the first month before having his minutes dwindle mysteriously. Tyler backs him up for more than a month, then mysteriously disappears altogether for a month. Then Tyler gets promoted to the starting position and plays more minutes than any power forward has all season, while Josh shuffles between DNP-CD's and the inactive list.

Neither player were ever informed about any of the role changes they experienced. When Tyler took over he starting job, neither player were told by the coach that would be happening. They literally found put the same way we did, Bruno's article on Pacers.com. I said it once already in this thread, but...seriously.

Are you kidding me? How is a major change like that not discussed with the players? Because JOB just doesn't have the time in his busy schedule? I'm sorry, but that is just :bs:

BRushWithDeath
02-07-2011, 11:00 AM
Mackey for PD Rookie of the Year.

As a former winner, and someone who's only contribution to the board was the best GIF ever (50 Cent FTW), I feel like he may be above this award.