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View Full Version : Pacers guard Ford takes latest demotion in stride



flox
01-25-2011, 09:25 PM
read more here:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110125/SPORTS04/101250340/1062/SPORTS04/Pacers-guard-Ford-takes-latest-demotion-stride

Interesting part quoted below (emphasis mine):



Three seasons, three demotions for Indiana Pacers point guard T.J. Ford.

Ford's latest banishment occurred during the team's 0-for-4 trip that concluded Sunday with a loss at Denver.

It didn't happen because Ford played his way out the rotation, according to coach Jim O'Brien, but because the struggling Pacers are gradually beginning their youth movement. They are looking to see who they can count on in the future.

O'Brien preferred to use Ford in the fourth quarter of close games over starter Darren Collison because Ford had the experience advantage.

"T.J. Ford has played very well for us," O'Brien said. "He's our best defender from the point guard spot. But A.J. has certain things he can do that T.J. can't do. You have to attempt to win every game and develop a nucleus."

Ford is averaging 5.8 points and 3.6 assists in 19.5 minutes a game this season.

"Pretty much, I understand that the time is up here," he said. "I can just sit here. I was in the same situation last year. I'll continue to cheer guys on because I want to see A.J. and Lance do well. They're part of the future. Under the circumstances, I'll still come to work every day and be professional about it."

I theorized that the reason O'Brien refused to comment why TJ wasn't playing was due to some mandate, and not his choice...I may have been right.

Dr. Awesome
01-25-2011, 09:31 PM
TJ Ford is a great guy, he really is. I'm not a fan of his game, but I will always root for his success wherever he ends up.

ilive4sports
01-25-2011, 09:33 PM
TJ Ford is a great guy, he really is. I'm not a fan of his game, but I will always root for his success wherever he ends up.

He really has handled the benchings incredibly well. He does seem to be a stand up guy. I just hate his play for this team.

HOOPFANATIC
01-25-2011, 10:27 PM
I hate it that his not playing is always so public. The way he and DJ have been treated. I can't imagine many free agents would want to risk coming here to play

cdash
01-25-2011, 10:48 PM
The real question: How is flox handling TJ's demotion?

Dr. Awesome
01-25-2011, 10:59 PM
I hate it that his not playing is always so public. The way he and DJ have been treated. I can't imagine many free agents would want to risk coming here to play

That is very true, however O'Brien won't be here next year(knock on wood) so most free agents won't have to worry about that.

pacers101
01-25-2011, 11:03 PM
He's being paid 8.5 million for the season. If he's told to sit on the bench he has no reason to complain especially with the way he plays. It's not like he's done anything that warrants him being above Price in the depth chart.

BlueNGold
01-25-2011, 11:14 PM
I would not handle the jacking around as well as TJ. His professionalism is pretty impressive.

Honestly, I think he's just smart. That attitude makes him more marketable even if it is as a backup.

Young
01-25-2011, 11:16 PM
He's being paid 8.5 million for the season. If he's told to sit on the bench he has no reason to complain especially with the way he plays. It's not like he's done anything that warrants him being above Price in the depth chart.

It doesn't matter how much money he is paid. He loves basketball and i'm sure he wants to play who wouldn't? He has been a starter most of his career. 95% of the players in this league would not have handled his inconsistent playing time over the last couple of years half as well as he has.

Like others I am not a huge fan of his game but I appreciate how mature and professional he has acted. It's really a shame that it goes unknown or even expected.

I appreciate TJ. Almost everyone in every aspect of their life can look at how he has handled adversity and learn something from him.

gummy
01-25-2011, 11:29 PM
I don't want him as our starting point guard or our backup point guard. But this guy is a class act.

Doddage
01-25-2011, 11:36 PM
I remember being excited when we dealt for T.J., but I didn't expect it to be the way it has been the past three seasons. It would have been interesting to see how he would have done here under a different coach who didn't emphasize an aspect of the game which happens to be his weakness.

sportfireman
01-26-2011, 01:00 AM
He really has handled the benchings incredibly well. He does seem to be a stand up guy. I just hate his play for this team.

I think him being her may help some of our younger players. Learn to deal with tough decision, over come hurdles, and be a total professional.

Sookie
01-26-2011, 01:23 AM
"AJ can do some things that TJ can't"

I can go down the list..run a team, play the PnR well, pass well, guard a PnR well, actually set a screen, typically not make stupid decisions...

But I have a feeling JOB means "make three pointers"

Anyway, TJ has handled everything well. He also knows that odds are he'll end up back in the rotation. Interesting that TJ said he expected it to happen.

Psyren
01-26-2011, 01:27 AM
Just as Dr. Awesome said above, TJ has been nothing but a professional his whole time here.

He's handled it incredibly well, and I'm impressed with his continued professionalism.

I hate the guy's game, but I respect him as a person. I'm glad to see him out of the rotation, but when his time here is over I wish him nothing but the best.

Same goes for Mike Dunleavy.

bellisimo
01-26-2011, 06:30 AM
He's being paid 8.5 million for the season. If he's told to sit on the bench he has no reason to complain especially with the way he plays. It's not like he's done anything that warrants him being above Price in the depth chart.

he could've gone Troy Murphy on us...just sayin'

wintermute
01-26-2011, 08:02 AM
I predict a buyout if the Pacers don't find a TJ trade before the deadline. No point in keeping him, and I'm sure TJ will want to establish some value before his free agent year.

thewholefnshow31
01-26-2011, 09:38 AM
As much as TJ's game has frustrated me during his time here he has been a real professional. Given the way a lot of NBA players act this could have been a disaster for the Pacers, TJ has handled himself well.

I am sure the 8.5 million this year is helping him feel better though.

Sparhawk
01-26-2011, 09:54 AM
Like most others here, TJ is a classy guy, but I don't care for his game at all. I'm not sure AJ is really a long term solution as a backup, but he'll do ok for now.

TJ also mentioned Lance, so it seems the Lance point guard charade is on. I'd rather have Lance as our backup shooting guard next year and maybe play some point if we decide to go with a "big" lineup. I really hope Rush and Dunleavy are gone by next season.

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 12:28 PM
I'll always be curious just what TJ Ford could have been in this league if his spinal cord didn't have that narrowing condition. I think he could have been very, very good.

Roaming Gnome
01-26-2011, 12:32 PM
I'll always be curious just what TJ Ford could have been in this league if his spinal cord didn't have that narrowing condition. I think he could have been very, very good.

I understand that his spinal injury could contribute to his inability to finish at the rim, but I feel his biggest criticism is his lack of "vision". I don't think his injury contributes to that...

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 12:34 PM
I understand that his spinal injury could contribute to his inability to finish at the rim, but I feel his biggest criticism is his lack of "vision". I don't think his injury contributes to that...

He lost almost a full two years of his career to neck injuries...how could that not hurt his vision? The guy lead the NCAA in assists as a sophomore for crying out loud! Let's not act like he never knew how to pass the basketball.

aaronb
01-26-2011, 12:34 PM
I understand that his spinal injury could contribute to his inability to finish at the rim, but I feel his biggest criticism is his lack of "vision". I don't think his injury contributes to that...


I wouldn't be shocked to see TJ playing heavy minutes on a better team next year? He's been reasonably effective in every other stop in his career.

The disconnect between management and the coaching staff continues. Just another example.

Roaming Gnome
01-26-2011, 12:44 PM
He lost almost a full two years of his career to neck injuries...how could that not hurt his vision? The guy lead the NCAA in assists as a sophomore for crying out loud! Let's not act like he never knew how to pass the basketball.

Hey, if college performance amounted to much in the NBA... Hansbrough would be our version of Tim Duncan. That point aside... losing 2 years of your career probably does have an effect, but I'll plead to ignorance and say I've only seen his NBA body of work... and not a whole lot of it in Milwaukee! Not impressed with much of what I've seen!



I wouldn't be shocked to see TJ playing heavy minutes on a better team next year? He's been reasonably effective in every other stop in his career.
-snip-.

I'm sure he would look a lot different in an offense where the point guard can <s>pound the air out of the ball</s> be ball dominant.

Hicks
01-26-2011, 12:45 PM
He lost almost a full two years of his career to neck injuries...how could that not hurt his vision? The guy lead the NCAA in assists as a sophomore for crying out loud! Let's not act like he never knew how to pass the basketball.

His neck injury caused him to stop looking to his left?

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 01:01 PM
His neck injury caused him to stop looking to his left?

Who knows.

My point is when a young player loses 2 years of their developing years in the NBA it will take an effect. Milwaukee TJ Ford and Texas TJ Ford could make some of the most brilliant passes you've ever seen. He was never even known as much of a scorer at Texas, yes he could score due to his speed, but he was a pass first PG, the same was true with the Bucks before the first injury.

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 01:03 PM
Hey, if college performance amounted to much in the NBA... Hansbrough would be our version of Tim Duncan. That point aside... losing 2 years of your career probably does have an effect, but I'll plead to ignorance and say I've only seen his NBA body of work... and not a whole lot of it in Milwaukee! Not impressed with much of what I've seen!



IMO, assists are pretty accurate at the college level translating to the NBA. If you know how to make a good pass, then you know how to make a good pass. Yes the game speeds up and unfortunately I think that's where TJ got screwed. His first injury took away time where he would have been adjusting to the speed and instead he was wondering if he could ever walk again. I see no way that didn't have some sort of effect on every single aspect of his game.

Sookie
01-26-2011, 01:06 PM
Who knows.

My point is when a young player loses 2 years of their developing years in the NBA it will take an effect. Milwaukee TJ Ford and Texas TJ Ford could make some of the most brilliant passes you've ever seen. He was never even known as much of a scorer at Texas, yes he could score due to his speed, but he was a pass first PG, the same was true with the Bucks before the first injury.

I think he probably knows one way to play, his neck injury probably did hurt that. But I think the fact that his blinding speed wasn't enough to be successful also probably hurt that. But personally, I find TJ's problem to be poor decision making moreso than poor court vision. (He has that..but his decision making is worse)

He probably does have some sort of mental block though. I'd imagine it's tough to mentally get over what happened. Some players just can't. (In fact, I question whether BRush is in that same situation)

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 01:06 PM
And why does it seem like you guys think it is such a far fetched idea that his neck injury could hurt his court vision? Does your head not swivel on your neck? I don't get it, it's not like I'm saying he blew out his knee and now he can't see the court.

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 01:09 PM
I think he probably knows one way to play, his neck injury probably did hurt that. But I think the fact that his blinding speed wasn't enough to be successful also probably hurt that.

See I think everyone focuses too damn much on his blinding speed. Please, please go watch TJ Ford at Texas it was fast, but it was controlled. Then he got hurt and everyone goes for the aspect of his game that had the WOW factor, his speed. Will it ever be back? Will he ever be that fast again? So what does Ford focus on rehabbing, his speed. Not his fundamentals, which is what really made him a star at Texas, but instead he focused on only his speed. Getting back his athletic gifts. Set him back in an immense way IMO.

If TJ had come back at say 80% of his speed, and made sure that he took the time to mentally get himself back for the NBA, shake the rust off being a pure PG. He'd be a lot better.

TJ Ford was something else to watch at Texas and before the first injury in the NBA, it's a shame he'll be remembered as this by most Pacer fans and NBA fans. That is what really bothers me, it seems like everyone discounts the hell out of those injuries he had. FACT: It is a miracle TJ Ford is even still capable of being in the NBA. That to me is the bottom line.

Roaming Gnome
01-26-2011, 01:12 PM
And why does it seem like you guys think it is such a far fetched idea that his neck injury could hurt his court vision? Does your head not swivel on your neck? I don't get it, it's not like I'm saying he blew out his knee and now he can't see the court.

You make a good point... I wonder how TJ would be if he played like he did at Texas? I know one thing... If it was like he played against us that first game his rookie year... We wouldn't be talking about him as a Pacer...

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 01:12 PM
Also, am I surprised he acts like a professional? Hell to the no. TJ Ford has seen the other side. This is a guy that probably thanks God when he wakes up every morning and can put one foot in front of the other. This is a guy who thought his career was O-V-E-R at what the age of 21? 22? I forget exactly how old he was when he first went down. He had to grow up.

Sookie
01-26-2011, 01:14 PM
See I think everyone focuses too damn much on his blinding speed. Please, please go watch TJ Ford at Texas it was fast, but it was controlled. Then he got hurt and everyone goes for the aspect of his game that had the WOW factor, his speed. Will it ever be back? Will he ever be that fast again? So what does Ford focus on rehabbing, his speed. Not his fundamentals, which is what really made him a star at Texas, but instead he focused on only his speed. Getting back his athletic gifts. Set him back in an immense way IMO.

If TJ had come back at say 80% of his speed, and made sure that he took the time to mentally get himself back for the NBA, shake the rust off being a pure PG. He'd be a lot better.
TJ Ford was something else to watch at Texas and before the first injury in the NBA, it's a shame he'll be remembered as this by most Pacer fans and NBA fans. That is what really bothers me, it seems like everyone discounts the hell out of those injuries he had. FACT: It is a miracle TJ Ford is even still capable of being in the NBA. That to me is the bottom line.

I think we're saying the same thing. That TJ relied/relies heavily on his speed, and that he would have been better off adjusting.

I also think that there's a chance that this offense just doesn't suit him. And he'll be significantly better elsewhere. I don't think decision making is going to change, but playing in an offense he's comfortable in will probably help him.

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 01:15 PM
You make a good point... I wonder how TJ would be if he played like he did at Texas? I know one thing... If it was like he played against us that first game his rookie year... We wouldn't be talking about him as a Pacer...

TJ Ford is like anti-thesis Jamaal Tinsley. Here are two guys who had all the skill in the world and both saw their careers go belly up. Both had one very good/overpaid contract, but I respect them on completely different levels.

Tinsley, all the talent world, but a total moron. Put himself in bad situations, was constantly out of shape. A general piece of **** on an NBA roster. The worst of the worst is a guy who has all the talent in the world and pisses it away.

Then you have Ford. All the talent in the world, suffers not one, but two catastrophic injuries. Has to rehab his *** off from both of them to just touch the floor again. Yeah, he kind of sucks now for an NBA player, but after suffering through Jamaal Tinsley's bull **** and I'm sorry it was bull ****. Give me TJ Ford every single day of the damn week. He at least has earned his keep in the NBA from continually pulling himself up by the boot straps while suffering from a very serious, and frankly very frightening medical condition.

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 01:22 PM
I think we're saying the same thing. That TJ relied/relies heavily on his speed, and that he would have been better off adjusting.

I also think that there's a chance that this offense just doesn't suit him. And he'll be significantly better elsewhere. I don't think decision making is going to change, but playing in an offense he's comfortable in will probably help him.

We're sort of saying the same thing, but I was kind of reading you like TJ chose not to adjust, while I'm saying TJ's development/rehab was structured/came at a time that prevented him from adjusting.

I remember watching a special with TJ as he was rehabbing from the first injury. The work was incredibly hard, but he rarely had a basketball in his hands. It was all about speed and athleticism, and I think that's because that's what TJ thought the Bucks wanted from him (and I think if the Bucks were honest, that's what they did want from him, that wow factor).

His trainer was John Lucas the former NBA player and I remember he had created a very intense physically demanding and frankly admirable work out, but it often left out use of a basketball in favor of weights and resistance.

pacer4ever
01-26-2011, 01:24 PM
And why does it seem like you guys think it is such a far fetched idea that his neck injury could hurt his court vision? Does your head not swivel on your neck? I don't get it, it's not like I'm saying he blew out his knee and now he can't see the court.

This

T.J before his injury and after are 2 completly different players. It really

sucks for him that his spinal cord/ neck injurys runined his game. He just

doesnt see the court as well anymore. I'm sure he is just happy that he can

even play after thoes rutal injures.

Trader Joe
01-26-2011, 01:32 PM
And while the neck injury was huge, I think the one that really set him back was the full spinal cord contusion he suffered 50 games into his rookie year and caused him to miss his entire second season.

Swish
01-26-2011, 01:35 PM
I think the most interesting part was left out of the original post:


The Pacers are trying to move Ford now that they feel comfortable with Price and rookie Lance Stephenson as the second and third point guards. Ford declined the Pacers' offer to buy out his contract for about $3 million less than his current salary last summer

Sookie
01-26-2011, 02:07 PM
We're sort of saying the same thing, but I was kind of reading you like TJ chose not to adjust, while I'm saying TJ's development/rehab was structured/came at a time that prevented him from adjusting.

I remember watching a special with TJ as he was rehabbing from the first injury. The work was incredibly hard, but he rarely had a basketball in his hands. It was all about speed and athleticism, and I think that's because that's what TJ thought the Bucks wanted from him (and I think if the Bucks were honest, that's what they did want from him, that wow factor).

His trainer was John Lucas the former NBA player and I remember he had created a very intense physically demanding and frankly admirable work out, but it often left out use of a basketball in favor of weights and resistance.

I think that's the problem with the NBA anyway. Too much emphasis on speed and athleticism, and underrating the importance of skills and intelligence.

I don't know whether TJ chose not to change his game up a bit, or simply couldn't. But I'm in agreement that it certainly hurt him.

I'll be honest though, I've seen enough guys (and girls) come back from injuries to see some of the phases they go through..and TJ does look like the "trying to do too much but not trusting himself" phase..and always had.

I've said this before, I like TJ Ford the person. There are a lot of players who couldn't handle Jim O'brien (in fact, I respect the whole team that way. But a majority of the guys he pulled this crap with, were really young. I mean Josh and AJ aren't going to run to the press and whine about JOB's stupid decisions..Larry will just cut them. TJ on the other hand, is making quite a bit of money..was previously a starter, and he's a vet..his voice does have more weight.) He's just a really poor point guard, at least from what I've seen of him.