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View Full Version : Basis for comparing possible trade and free agent Bigs



johndozark
01-24-2011, 02:12 PM
I don't know of any way to quantify qualities like character, work ethic, basketball IQ, positive spirit, ability to implement offensive and defensive plans, whether a player is on the kind of team or has the kind of coach that allows him to demonstrate his skills etc., but I would like some basis that is more objective than highlight reels for comparing skill levels, what a player contributes to their present team, and what they might be able to do for the Pacers if we were able to trade for them or sign them in free agency.

I know the anti-Hollinger howls that will follow, and I understand some of that, but I am going to post a link to a set of Hollinger stats that allow you to click by position and within that to order the listed players by a particular stat. My link is pre-set to the VA (Value Added) stat for PF. Also click for C. Change the columns by which players are ranked as you choose.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?position=pf&sort=VORP&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fposition%3dpf%26sort%3 dVORP

If you don't like Hollinger's stats, don't howl, just submit a link to stats you prefer!

My top concern is adding a top quality PF, C, or combo Big. I am not unhappy with the potential of Hibbert, Hansbrough, and McRoberts. I even think that we might want to sign Foster to a small, short contract as a quality back-up. But we need a dominant Big in one of the two positions. I don't think we have him yet.

Click the PF and C headings to compare the stats of current players, and consider which might be reasonably likely to be available for trade or for free agent signing, take into consideration whatever intangibles you want, and then and list your best bets.

Here is my list: Who wouldn't like have P. Gasol, D. Howard, A. Horford, K.Love, B. Griffin, etc.? but the cost of obtaining them would leave us without a strong supporting cast. Z. Randolph has good stats, but I don't want him on the team.

So my candidates are ones I think might be possible and have no reason to think might be negative influences (although some of you may know this sort of info better than I): D. West, L. Scola, Nene, B. Lopez, A. Barnagni, M. Gasol. I could list more, but you get the idea. I am more interested in your lists than mine.

pacer4ever
01-24-2011, 02:16 PM
M. Gasol ,Lopez and Barnagni arent PF Center combo's they are just centers.

pacer4ever
01-24-2011, 02:17 PM
I like Nene he can play both postions and is the type of player we need

Speed
01-24-2011, 02:20 PM
Find it interesting Paul Milsap comes in at 10th on this list. I'm thinking Utah realizes how valuable he is and wouldn't readily move him.

I agree with you on Sciola, I'm a big fan of his.

Thanks for the link, it will be nice to have when the rumors start flying soon.

Speed
01-24-2011, 02:22 PM
Also, interesting to see Paul George 8th when you rank Small Forwards by PER.

pacer4ever
01-24-2011, 02:26 PM
intersting James Posey has a -17 value LOL yet he still gets PT

vnzla81
01-24-2011, 02:32 PM
Scola, Nene, Varejao(before he got hurt)

pacer4ever
01-24-2011, 02:34 PM
Paul George 7th in rookie usage 15mpg


Wes Johnson 25th in useage in double the mins of Paul's 28 mpg
Evan Turner 26th 24mpg

beast23
01-24-2011, 04:58 PM
I've used Hollinger's evaluation to get a rough estimation of a player's "statistical" abilities. What it doesn't do is provide any ability to evaluate a player's ability to hit the perimeter shot, the mid-range shot, post-up skills, defensive skills, etc.

For example, you would not know from Hollinger's stats that Nene is very good around the basket, that he is a good defensive player, but that he does not have much of a mid-range game nor PnR/PnP skills. You would not know from the stats that Scola is a very, very good player near the basket, but is less than average at mid-range shots and defensive skills.

And, you would not know that West is not quite as good as Nene and Scola around the basket, but is a very, very good PnR/PnP player that has a good mid-range shot.

For what it's worth, if it's a center we want, I'd be more than willing to demote/dump Hibbert and bring in Nene. But not until after West is acquired to man the PF position.

If we were to do that, let Granger continue playing SF with George at the SG and Collison at the PG, ole beast23 would be a very happy boy. Unfortunately, without being able to dump Posey's salary, this would probably not be possible, even with the cap space we will have this summer.

I certainly hope that the new CBA will enable teams to dump one or two players without their salaries counting against the new salary cap.

Part Timer
01-24-2011, 05:56 PM
I certainly hope that the new CBA will enable teams to dump one or two players without their salaries counting against the new salary cap.

Wouldn't this potentially increase the number of buyers in the market and somewhat negate the financial advantage the Pacers might have after this year?

beast23
01-24-2011, 07:49 PM
Wouldn't this potentially increase the number of buyers in the market and somewhat negate the financial advantage the Pacers might have after this year?I'm not sure. Under the present CBA, there would be about 6 or 7 teams capable of signing one high dollar FA without having to work a trade.

What would probably work best for the Pacers would be for either a hard cap much lower than the present cap accompanied by either a cut in salaries across the board or the ability to dump one current contract.

Most teams are probably far enough above whatever the hard cap might be to not have enough space to sign a high dollar FA even after an across the board salary cut or the dumping of one contract.

Either way, there will probably still be 6 or 7 teams able to sign at least one high dollar FA without having to trade. A ruling that would allow teams to dump one contract would probably help the teams with a lot of cap space more than those without much space since there would probably be a handful of additional quality players among those dumped.