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View Full Version : I just threw up!! Man this is depressing!



90'sNBARocked
01-24-2011, 01:44 PM
Mike Wells Tweets:


Everybody keeps asking about O'Brien. Things will have to get a lot worse for O'Brien to get fired, and even then there's no guarantee.
about 12 hours ago via web

I am utterly amazed by this statement

"Things have to get a lot worse, before he is fired"?


This is beyond comical know. Jim has been here four years, has a losing record, no signs of improvement and is on a five game losing streak and only two games above last year

I do not recall at anytime in my life, seeing a head coach so counterproductive, who's record is so poor and shows regression, yet manages to not only hold onto his job, but keep it.

I for the love of God, do not understand this. Replace him with any assistant, anyone on the bench just for this year

To keep Jim employed is a severe slap in the face to loyal fans. It screams were cutting costs, and obviously content with mediocrity. Wait a minute mediocrity would be an improvement.

I know everyone is tired of the moaning but that Wells quote just sucked the last bit of life out of me

THEY HAVE TAKEN EVERY OUNCE OF HOPE FOR THIS SEASON AWAY

I really think I need to stop investing my time in the Pacers for a little while. The reality is it is the same bs and frustration for the third year in a row

The players know it, the fans know it, the rest of the NBA knows it, but apparently either the Pacers front office doesn't know it or doesn't care

I am funkin mentally exhausted with this BS

Speed
01-24-2011, 02:14 PM
Here is my silver lining...

Any prospective coaches that interview with Bird will know he will stick with them. I hope maybe this would mean something to a top tier guy, if they became available.

90'sNBARocked
01-24-2011, 02:34 PM
Here is my silver lining...

Any prospective coaches that interview with Bird will know he will stick with them. I hope maybe this would mean something to a top tier guy, if they became available.

Boy my friend that is reaching, but does make some sense

I just can not fathom why they keep him employed, and even worse continue to protect Jim

Absolutely mind blowing

Trophy
01-24-2011, 02:37 PM
He won't be here next season, but he means Jim won't be fired during this season.

Just keep looking forward to the end of the season.

grace
01-24-2011, 02:37 PM
If the owner had half a brain he'd get rid of Larry too. Anyone who would stick with JOB to this point shouldn't keep his job.

ilive4sports
01-24-2011, 02:37 PM
How worse can things get? We are on a 5 game losing streak and honestly I dont see it ending until we play Cleveland. Yes, I think we will lose to the Nets.

IndySDExport
01-24-2011, 02:42 PM
UPDATE: Mike Wells of the Indianapolis Star is reporting similarly to the below report from Broussard from over the weekend.

"Barring a sudden change of thought, the Pacers have no intention of replacing O'Brien, who is in the final year of his contract," wrote Wells. "They wouldn't move any of the assistants up and there's no point in bringing in somebody from the outside because the players would have to learn the new coach's system on the fly over the final 41 games of the season."

---

Pacers coach Jim O'Brien is on the last year of his contract.

And, in part, due to his sporadic substitution patterns, ESPN's The Magazine's Chris Broussard is reporting via several league sources that the team's brass is unhappy with him.

But Broussard is also reporting he's likely to remain for the rest of the season due to no one on his staff being a suitable replacement.

Yet, if the team is unhappy with him, it stands to reason it's possible they'll look elsewhere for a coach when O'Brien's contract runs out after the season.

-- Ryan Corazza


ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard
Pacers don't have suitable replacement for O'Brien on current staff
"Indiana Pacers brass is not pleased with the performance of head coach Jim O'Brien, according to several league sources. That said, O'Brien, who is in the last year of his contract, is likely to remain as coach the rest of the season. Part of the reason is that no one on O'Brien's staff -- Dan Burke, Frank Vogel, Jay DeFruscio, Vitaly Potapenko and Walter McCarty -- is viewed as a suitable replacement. One complaint about O'Brien is the strange way he divvies up minutes: Tyler Hansbrough plays 36 minutes one night, posting 23 points and 12 rebounds, and just 23 minutes the next; Paul George plays 21 minutes one night, four the next. "


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

90'sNBARocked
01-24-2011, 02:43 PM
Yep, I really struggle to find any reason why he is here

It really is a slap in the face to the fans. Keep pumping the BS about how they are trying to make the playoffs and its not Jim's fault

WTF does Jim have on these guys?

I dont think I can watch another game until changes have been made. Whether that be personnel through trades or a coaching change

SOMETHING HAS TO FUNKIN CHANGE!!!

Since86
01-24-2011, 03:24 PM
Anyone else think it's not a coincidence that there is no one on the staff that is good enough to replace him?

Either way, it comes down to this. Do you do more damage keeping him or by firing him?

I think you do more damage keeping him. By letting him go, now, you start the process earlier. A process that should have started a year and a half ago.

It's not like they need to bring in a coach that has the ability to correct the ship and get them in the playoffs. At this rate, they're going to be on the outside looking in anyways. Who cares if they lose 30 games instead of 25? I know I don't. The way they are playing now, they'll lose 30 games anyways.

They need to start maximizing time for the younger guys, and start getting away from Obie-ball.

It's just not going to work, and if it's not going to work, then there's no reason to hold on to that 10% chance it will.

Trader Joe
01-24-2011, 03:27 PM
Might as well just pay him to finish the season.

Rather than paying him to sit at home and paying someone else to fill in.

Since86
01-24-2011, 03:35 PM
At some point in time enough has to be enough. At what point do some of you guys think that there has been "enough?"

My threshold for it has been passed a long, long, time ago.

He's going to get the money either way. The question is which is better for the franchise. I know it's not my money, but I think you just give the duties to an assistant and call it a season. It won't cost you anymore than what you are already going to pay out.

CableKC
01-24-2011, 03:35 PM
The whole shifting of the blame to the Team itself can only go so far until you step back and question whether the whole blame for the performance of the Team can be place solely on the shoulders of the Team itself. The answer is pretty clear and simple for me.

I know that he said he wouldn't do it....but if the FO doesn't like what JO'B is doing, there is no one on the current Coaching Staff that can fill that role, but the FO recognizes that SOMETHING must be done in order to save the season, yet there is someone that is capable of TEMPORARILY filling that role....then the answer is clear to me.....Bird should be that guy for 4 months.

He's the only person in the Organization with any Coaching Experience that can do it without costing the Organization an additional cent.

If anything...that would be a kin to what the TWolves did last season....the TWolves Owners got p*ssed off at what was happening so they put McHale in the Captain's chair and had him guide the proverbial "ship" that he built ( cuz it was he was the guy that wrote up the plans that got them there ).

This isn't a "Bird should put up or shut up" situation....Bird is ( whether he likes it or not ) the only guy in the Organization that actually has any Coaching Experience that would make any difference to this Team.

It's like what happened on "Airplane" ( the movie ). If the Captain and Co-Pilot of the plane is incapable of landing the plane....then it's up to the crew to see if there is anyone else on the plane that can land a plane. Sure, it's not always the best idea to have the guy with mental problems land the plane cuz he can't forget what happened to him at Macho Grande....but if it's the only option that you have...it's better to have Robert Hays land the plane rather then let the plane crash into the ground.

vnzla81
01-24-2011, 03:38 PM
At some point in time enough has to be enough. At what point do some of you guys think that there has been "enough?"
My threshold for it has been passed a long, long, time ago.

He's going to get the money either way. The question is which is better for the franchise. I know it's not my money, but I think you just give the duties to an assistant and call it a season. It won't cost you anymore than what you are already going to pay out.

three years ago?

jcouts
01-24-2011, 03:45 PM
In my opinion, O'Brien won't get fired until the end of the season because the coach that Bird wants to replace him won't be available until after the season...I believe that coach is Nate McMillan. I think Nate is Larry's first choice.

In the meantime, he probably knows that whatever O'Brien's doing will likely be better than that of any of his green assistants.

kellogg
01-24-2011, 03:47 PM
I think things really could be much, much worse. If we recall back in November, when the Pacers were at/above .500, really playing pretty well, one of my worst fears was that they'd finish 41-41 or better and then Bird would reward O'Brien with another extension.

So, in keeping with my philosophy, "it can always be worse"...

If we had to pick our poison, would we rather suffer through the rest of this season with O'Brien they say our goodbyes after a 5th straight losing season...or have a mediocre season and then have to look at him on the sidelines for another 3-5 years.

90'sNBARocked
01-24-2011, 03:49 PM
Anyone else think it's not a coincidence that there is no one on the staff that is good enough to replace him?

Either way, it comes down to this. Do you do more damage keeping him or by firing him?

I think you do more damage keeping him. By letting him go, now, you start the process earlier. A process that should have started a year and a half ago.

It's not like they need to bring in a coach that has the ability to correct the ship and get them in the playoffs. At this rate, they're going to be on the outside looking in anyways. Who cares if they lose 30 games instead of 25? I know I don't. The way they are playing now, they'll lose 30 games anyways.

They need to start maximizing time for the younger guys, and start getting away from Obie-ball.

It's just not going to work, and if it's not going to work, then there's no reason to hold on to that 10% chance it will.

Thats my whole point. Send a message that enough is enough and put any of his assistants on the bench as lead. Who cares? Could any of them really be any worse than Jim? I still remember the Toronto game where Lester got to coach and how excited and energized they were.

The message being sent now is that MONEY is more important than winning

This is why I doubt they move an expiring. I am starting to get the feeling that Simon wants to sell

what a season

Trader Joe
01-24-2011, 04:35 PM
For years and years, the Simons have poured money into a losing team with the Dunleavy and Murphy contracts. I don't blame them for deciding that they're just going to ride out the rest of this season with JOB's contract.

BornReady
01-24-2011, 04:51 PM
lol
I also just puked in my mouth and spat it out all over the screen
this team has been so...unenjoyable to watch that I'm really starting to lose interest -__-

vnzla81
01-24-2011, 04:53 PM
lol
I also just puked in my mouth and spat it out all over the screenthis team has been so...unenjoyable to watch that I'm really starting to lose interest -__-


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k_lewis93
01-24-2011, 05:01 PM
I was so happy about this year when the season began but it just keeps getting worse and worse. I'm usually not one to blame the coach for everything because well I am on a high school basketball team so I know that a lot of the time it is the players not playing hard enough. However, in this situation that in no way is true. Sorry but Obbie is the worst coach I have ever seen. No way anyone on that staff isn't better then him. I went to the Bulls at Pacers game like a week ago and was so excited. Granger was doing awesome and scored like 10 points straight then what happens????? Obbie takes him out so the Bulls made a big run. The guy is a moron and does not know how to coach. FIRE HIM NOW! I promise in the end it will be better. You wait till the end of the season and he is going to screw up our young guys that have raw talent rightnow. Mark my words.

D-BONE
01-24-2011, 05:05 PM
Only silver lining I can see is our draft position could improve drastically. That's if we don't do another season-ending hot streak.

90'sNBARocked
01-24-2011, 05:10 PM
Only silver lining I can see is our draft position could improve drastically. That's if we don't do another season-ending hot streak.

I agree, unfortunately

This draft sucks ballz

Lockout pending

and yes we will win 9-11 meaningless games so Pacer brass can tell us again, how it will "carry over to next year"

thewholefnshow31
01-24-2011, 05:12 PM
I am not really surprised by this and nobody else should be. The Pacers are not in the best financial shape right now so they are not going to fire a guy and pay him to do nothing when there is not a viable replacement on the coaching staff.

Lets say they fire JOB and want to hire Mike Brown then they would be paying two coaches a salary and Mike Brown will not come really cheap.

If they do not go after someone like Mike Brown after firing JOB they have nobody on the staff now to replace him and make much of a difference.

Unless there is just a outright mutiny I do not see JOB going anywhere until the end of the season.

ChristianDudley
01-24-2011, 06:53 PM
Like I keep saying in about all my posts now...is there anybody even left in our Front Office or are they going on a yearlong vacation??? I have plenty of certainty that all other 29 teams would make a coaching move (and maybe more than that) if they'd be in our position right now. It's not that we just have a horrible roster with nothing to work with...we do, we can win games, we can beat good teams, but more times than not, the coach holds us back and blows any opportunities that come our way--then he destroys our future game by game with not playing our youth or discrediting them.

McKeyFan
01-24-2011, 08:19 PM
It's like what happened on "Airplane" ( the movie ). If the Captain and Co-Pilot of the plane is incapable of landing the plane....then it's up to the crew to see if there is anyone else on the plane that can land a plane.
Always good to see rich cultural references from PD members, steeped in the classics.





:zip:

speakout4
01-24-2011, 08:29 PM
We can't find an assistant coach replacement that will also lose games?

That implies that JOB has some skills which are not very evident.

i say let larry or someone else tell JOB whom to play and develop and if he can do that he doesn't get fired. Game strategy and personnel decisions don't have to be Jimmy's anymore. I'm sure he wants to keep his job for a few more months.

NapTonius Monk
01-24-2011, 08:31 PM
Where's Lester Conner when you need him. :(

Sookie
01-24-2011, 08:31 PM
Fire O'brien and make Posey the head coach.

I'm serious. I think we'd be better off.

speakout4
01-24-2011, 08:37 PM
Fire O'brien and make Posey the head coach.

I'm serious. I think we'd be better off.
Good idea or Jeff (player coach).

Hoop
01-24-2011, 09:02 PM
"Barring a sudden change of thought, the Pacers have no intention of replacing O'Brien, who is in the final year of his contract," wrote Wells. "They wouldn't move any of the assistants up and there's no point in bringing in somebody from the outside because the players would have to learn the new coach's system on the fly over the final 41 games of the season."

The players don't know the offense anyway, how would a new system at mid season be any worse?

At least the new coach could get an early start on next season, evaluate players and give his opinion on what we need to go forward.

Seems to me a new coach right now would be VERY beneficial. 41 more games just completely wasted, sounds immensely more stupid than making a change now.

I've only been to 1 game the last month and half and I have season tickets. Give me a :censored: reason to even want to come back.

Jose Slaughter
01-25-2011, 03:04 AM
O'Brien was hired May 31st, 2007

Donnie Walsh resigned effective at the end of the 07-08 season.

I don't want to open old debates here I just mention this for reference.

The roster the first year under O'Brien was:

Marquis Daniels
Travis Diener
Ike Diogu
Mike Dunleavy
Jeff Foster
Stephen Graham
Danny Granger
David Harrison
Troy Murphy
Ronald Murray
Jermaine O'Neal
Andre Owen
Kareem Rush
Courtney Sims
Jamaal Tinsley
Shawne Williams

Here's my basic theroy on Bird bringing in O'Brien. Bird was looking to completely remake the roster. Of the group above only Dunleavy, Granger & Foster are still here. Dunleavy will most likely be gone after this season & Foster is right at the end of his career, so only Granger is the only core member of the 07-08 roster that matters after this season.

Bird knew of O'Brien's way of doing things. How he ran his camps, his practice methods, what he expected from his players, what he demanded of them & what he would refuse to put up with from them.

O'Brien was brought in to instill hard work & team building in the players Bird would piece together over the course of several seasons that it would take Bird to rid the roster of the players Bird didn't want here & bring in the type of players he desired.

Bird wanted the Pacers to win but that was not the top priority. Get the right guys in here, instill in them the right mind set & down the road you will reap the rewards of winning.

I believe Bird was fully aware of O'Brien's limits as a couch but also knew that O'Brien was the exactly the right guy to bring in during the re-tooling of the roster. O'Brien gets the guys to play hard, that is a skill that will remain with them for the remainder of their careers.

I think Bird has pretty much collected the talented core he was looking for. With the key members of the team in place, attractive ending contracts to use at the trade deadline & big money coming off the books after this season I feel Bird has postioned himself to add the final touches to his team. A key trade or two & a wise free agent signing will fill in the gaps of the roster & then, with the right coach to lead them, we can watch tis team grow as a unit & finally win.

O'Brien has done just what Bird hired him to do. Help build the players that will help the Pacers win, after he is gone.

Foul on Smits
01-25-2011, 06:32 AM
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grace
01-25-2011, 01:52 PM
It's like what happened on "Airplane" ( the movie ). If the Captain and Co-Pilot of the plane is incapable of landing the plane....then it's up to the crew to see if there is anyone else on the plane that can land a plane.


Always good to see rich cultural references from PD members, steeped in the classics.

Anyone remember the movie Eddie where the Knicks took a fan out of the stands to coach the team? I'm all for it as long as it's not Whoopi Goldberg.

Since86
01-25-2011, 02:05 PM
Jose, if you look back at the Pacers roster for the past couple of years, I think you'll find a whole laundry list of 1-2 year rentals.

The Pacers roster has been being turned over for so long, I've lost track of who was a Pacer at one time, and who wasn't.

Here's the roster the last year RC was here. (Highlited are players that didn't make it as a Pacer the next season, the one you listed)

Darrell Armstrong
Maceo Baston
Maquis Daniels
Ike Diogu
Mike Dunleavy
Jeff Foster
Danny Granger
Oriene Greene
Al Harrington
David Harrison
Stephen Jackson
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Rawle Marshall
Keith McLeod
Troy Murphy
Jermaine O'Neal
Josh Powell
Jamaal Tinsley
Shawne Williams

(My God, they had 19 players under contract that year. 9 of them didn't make it to Jim)

And it's the same as the year before that. I won't list the names but 9 more players wore Pacer uniforms that year, that isn't on the list that I just provided.

The Pacers have went though players like underwear.


That was a huge reason why I didn't want the team to get rid of Rick, because the job he did with the instability of rotation players and having a "core" of knuckleheads was mission impossible.

But regardless, Jim hasn't built anything. He routinely sat down Roy in favor of Rasho, Josh still doesn't see playing time, AJ sat behind TJ until 3 games ago, Tyler was racking up DNP-CD until 12 games ago, etc.


That's why I've been so pissed off the past 3 years. Instead of actually building a team, Jim has decided to play his 1-2 year rentals heavy minutes, in favor of his young players.

If there are two things I know about Jim, they are 1) Jim loves him some "stretching" of the floor and 2) Jim loves him some vets.

owl
01-25-2011, 02:19 PM
I enjoy watching Tyler and Paul play. Darren is ok but he sure turns the ball over alot when
dribbling. That is about all I enjoy watching play in regards to the Pacers at this point.

indygeezer
01-25-2011, 02:26 PM
If anyone remembers them from back in the day.....I have a bunch of vomit socks for sale.

TheDon
01-25-2011, 02:44 PM
The players don't know the offense anyway.

:ding: I don't even know if Jim knows the offense to be honest it's so loosely based. Another thing that has always bothered me is it was said that Jim has said it takes people 3 years to learn his system or get a good grasp. So every draft we have is the start of a 3 year road to learn Jim's system? That's not even taking into account developing the player along the way that's just how long it supposedly takes to learn his system. I'm sure it's not just me but doesn't that seem staggeringly, achingly, almost awe-inspiringly retarded? I refuse to believe that Larry went "Wow! a system that takes 3 years to learn? that's gotta be some system!! can't wait to see how it works out 3 years down the road!"

rm1369
01-25-2011, 03:30 PM
Bird knew of O'Brien's way of doing things. How he ran his camps, his practice methods, what he expected from his players, what he demanded of them & what he would refuse to put up with from them.

O'Brien was brought in to instill hard work & team building in the players Bird would piece together over the course of several seasons that it would take Bird to rid the roster of the players Bird didn't want here & bring in the type of players he desired.

Bird wanted the Pacers to win but that was not the top priority. Get the right guys in here, instill in them the right mind set & down the road you will reap the rewards of winning.

I believe Bird was fully aware of O'Brien's limits as a couch but also knew that O'Brien was the exactly the right guy to bring in during the re-tooling of the roster. O'Brien gets the guys to play hard, that is a skill that will remain with them for the remainder of their careers.

I think Bird has pretty much collected the talented core he was looking for. With the key members of the team in place, attractive ending contracts to use at the trade deadline & big money coming off the books after this season I feel Bird has postioned himself to add the final touches to his team. A key trade or two & a wise free agent signing will fill in the gaps of the roster & then, with the right coach to lead them, we can watch tis team grow as a unit & finally win.

O'Brien has done just what Bird hired him to do. Help build the players that will help the Pacers win, after he is gone.

I disagree with everything in here. From the moment Bird took over he stated that he wouldnt do this for very long, he wasnt interested in rebuilding, and he wanted to win now. This is the entire reason I've been anti LB. Nearly all of his moves have been based around trying to win now: drafting of "NBA ready" players (Rush, Hibbert, and Hans), extension of Foster instead of trading him when he had value, and the signing of D. Jones a veteran role player. Couple this with Birds comments when he initialy took over and I dont see how it can be considered part of some master plan. I never heard anything about a three year plan until it became obvious the team wasnt going anywhere.

As for O'brien, if Bird has brought in talent and JOB has taught them to play hard and help build them, then why does this team suck so bad? Even compared to other young teams? I dont see what JOB has built - Rush is still extremly erratic, Hibbert is in a freefall, DC was better last year playing a different scheme for a different coach, AJ and Hans only recently started getting time (based on history it likley wont last), Jones (Bird's FA pickup) never plays, and even DG seems to have regressed the last couple years. Only PG truly looks promising. Of course he's only had half a year of JOBs player building. Maybe in the second half of the season he can get trashed in the media (Hibbert, Mcroberts) or unexplicably benched after playing well (AJ). I guess you could say I'm not impressed with JOB's player or team building. Even the cleanup of the roster doesnt have anything to do with JOB IMO. It's not like he's keeping an Artest or SJax in line. The two guys that I wouldnt be surprised to have some type of issue have had them - Rush and Lance. Has JOB's tough love helped them? Rush was suspended for drug use and Lance is still a knucklehead.

The only way this team grows and truly starts to win is if Bird is able to add an all star player and a compitent coach. Congratulations - we are in the same position as nearly every other mediocre / bad team in the league. At least Bird has mostly maintained our salary cap flexibility. Of course his talk about wanting to trade our draft pick for a vetern concerns me - there is still time for him to screw up more.

spazzxb
01-25-2011, 05:20 PM
I do not recall at anytime in my life, seeing a head coach so counterproductive, who's record is so poor and shows regression, yet manages to not only hold onto his job, but keep it.


First the word Regression doesn't mean what you think it means.

Second, this organization has nothing to gain by making JOB look bad. As much as you may have a personal desire to see him suffer, this is entirely about the organization for Larry Bird. Unless the replacement is ready and has a desire to take over now, there really is no logical reason for management not to wait until the end of the season to let Obriens contract expire.

Its good to show respect for your current employees, especially if you want quality people to come work for you in the future.

Since86
01-25-2011, 05:32 PM
So pissing off your players is better than pissing off your coach?

The NBA is a PLAYERS league. Franchises choose the players, over the coach, almost exclusively.

The Pacers did it 4 years ago when they choose a group of knuckleheads over a COY candidate in previous seasons, with multiple teams, and who continues to show that he's a great HC in the league in Dallas.

naptownmenace
01-25-2011, 05:36 PM
I know that he said he wouldn't do it....but if the FO doesn't like what JO'B is doing, there is no one on the current Coaching Staff that can fill that role, but the FO recognizes that SOMETHING must be done in order to save the season, yet there is someone that is capable of TEMPORARILY filling that role....then the answer is clear to me.....Bird should be that guy for 4 months.

He's the only person in the Organization with any Coaching Experience that can do it without costing the Organization an additional cent.


He's been traveling with the team on the road anyway this month. He could man up and do it another 3 months. He would be able to analyze the assistant staff and players directly, would increase the accountability before the season ends.

Having Larry coach the team on an interim basis would also put some more butts back in the Conseco Fieldhouse seats too. There might even be a honeymoon period where the team wins 4 or 5 games in-a-row as a result.

naptownmenace
01-25-2011, 05:37 PM
So pissing off your players is better than pissing off your coach?

The NBA is a PLAYERS league. Franchises choose the players, over the coach, almost exclusively.

The Pacers did it 4 years ago when they choose a group of knuckleheads over a COY candidate in previous seasons, with multiple teams, and who continues to show that he's a great HC in the league in Dallas.

I'm still not sure that Carlisle didn't ask to be fired. I think he wanted out as much as the players wanted him out.

spazzxb
01-25-2011, 05:43 PM
Where is any proof that the players are angry that Jim hasn't been fired?


So pissing off your players is better than pissing off your coach?

The NBA is a PLAYERS league. Franchises choose the players, over the coach, almost exclusively.

The Pacers did it 4 years ago when they choose a group of knuckleheads over a COY candidate in previous seasons, with multiple teams, and who continues to show that he's a great HC in the league in Dallas.

The fans and players both turned on Carlisle. The players (Artest, JO, ?) made him there excuse/crutch, the fans their scapegoat. It never had anything to do with his abilities as a coach.

naptownmenace
01-25-2011, 05:57 PM
Where is any proof that the players are angry that Jim hasn't been fired?



The fans and players both turned on Carlisle. The players (Artest, JO, ?) made him there excuse/crutch, the fans their scapegoat. It never had anything to do with his abilities as a coach.

I don't remember the fans turning on Carlisle as much as it was thought that he had lost the players. I think there was more outcry from the fans to get rid of Jackson and Tinsley than there was to get rid of the coach.

spazzxb
01-25-2011, 06:20 PM
I don't remember the fans turning on Carlisle as much as it was thought that he had lost the players. I think there was more outcry from the fans to get rid of Jackson and Tinsley than there was to get rid of the coach.

I remember alot of people making fun of the card he carried around. Many complained that he called to many plays and was a mechanical slave to that card.

I notice that you didn't mention JO, and his domination. I feel Jo's contract and the years we spent waiting for him to dominate hurt this franchise more than Tinsley or Jackson did. Jackson was better than Dunleavy and would have expired a couple years ago. Obviously we are still paying Tinsley, but we are still paying the higher priced Ford(JO leftover or the cost of Roy) to be our third string PG.

xIndyFan
01-25-2011, 06:29 PM
i can tell you want the fans didn't like about carlisle. it was his calling a play every :censored: time down the court. guys would break out, tinsley would look to see whose open, see carlisle calling a play, slow down and walk the ball up the court. by the end of away games i was ready to throw a brick thru the TV. at home games, we were making bets on which play was next. :censored: it was :censored: horrible.

CableKC
01-25-2011, 06:40 PM
He's been traveling with the team on the road anyway this month. He could man up and do it another 3 months. He would be able to analyze the assistant staff and players directly, would increase the accountability before the season ends.

Having Larry coach the team on an interim basis would also put some more butts back in the Conseco Fieldhouse seats too. There might even be a honeymoon period where the team wins 4 or 5 games in-a-row as a result.
This what I'm saying. If one of the main reasons that JO'B is not fired is because there is not suitable replacement on his staff.....then wouldn't it make more send to have Bird "man up" and simply Coach the Team the way he wants it to be coached for 3 frickin months?

It doesn't make sense to me that we should let the ship continue to wander aimlessly into troubled waters just because the FO thinks that there isn't anyone else on the ship that can steer in the right direction. The reality is that we do have someone that can TEMPORARILY helm the ship....he just doesn't want to.

TheDon
01-25-2011, 10:39 PM
I remember Rick having set substituion patterns that people started calling it egg-timer substitutions where it did not matter who the hot hand was or how much of a slump or poor play someone was having if that card said you go out at the 4 minute mark in the first quarter then by god you were coming out at the 4 minute mark in the 1st quarter.

I also remember his play calling from that card was driving both fans and players nuts. Till they eventually tuned rick out and did their own thing and after that he seemed to scared of his own players to do anything about it and just let the **** hit the fan. I can remember towards the end of his stint here many on pacers digest agreed that rick would be the perfect coach on a team full of vets and not for this team.

I don't think many said that rick was a bad coach just not the right fit for this team. At least that's how I remember rick's stint with us.

90'sNBARocked
01-25-2011, 11:00 PM
I wish RC was still calling every play

90'sNBARocked
01-25-2011, 11:03 PM
This what I'm saying. If one of the main reasons that JO'B is not fired is because there is not suitable replacement on his staff.....then wouldn't it make more send to have Bird "man up" and simply Coach the Team the way he wants it to be coached for 3 frickin months?

It doesn't make sense to me that we should let the ship continue to wander aimlessly into troubled waters just because the FO thinks that there isn't anyone else on the ship that can steer in the right direction. The reality is that we do have someone that can TEMPORARILY helm the ship....he just doesn't want to.

Im with ya man

I think that whole "suitable replacement" is a line of BS

What do they think , Obie is going to suddenly get 45 wins out of this team? Like Frank Vogel could do that much worse?

I would counter with, getting rid of the horesazz named Jim, and the sheer joy and excitment of the players will translate to more wins

Like with Charlotte, Larry Brown goes and they start wining again

Not because Paul Silas is a guru and LB is garbage, just because the same voice beating you over the head repeatedly wears on you

BoomBaby33
01-25-2011, 11:38 PM
"Barring a sudden change of thought, the Pacers have no intention of replacing O'Brien, who is in the final year of his contract," wrote Wells. "They wouldn't move any of the assistants up and there's no point in bringing in somebody from the outside because the players would have to learn the new coach's system on the fly over the final 41 games of the season."



http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors



Give me a break ... these are professional basketball players. It does NOT take 41 games to learn on the "FLY". What is the heck is the deal with this statement? I guess maybe Wells is just trying to be as sarcastic as he can be while being "politically" correct.

Just let vogel coach please, or potapenko, or foster, i dont care who any more. Stacy Paetz is a pacer employee. Let her coach.

I am convinced that anyone could motivate and coach these guys better than obie.

:mad:

Since86
01-26-2011, 01:56 PM
Where is any proof that the players are angry that Jim hasn't been fired?

I'm not going to take up the time to provide the actual quotes, because this is a topic that is discussed semi-regularly, but when Jim's extension was exercised Wells had a blurb about how players weren't happy about it.

Granger is widely accepted as one of those players from quotes/behavior directly after Bird picked up the option.

If you don't want to take my word on it, which I'm sure you won't, you can ask other posters because like I said, it's talked about semi-regularly around here, and it's not something that the forum just cruised over.

It was talked about heavily at the time.

BillS
01-26-2011, 02:09 PM
I'm not going to take up the time to provide the actual quotes, because this is a topic that is discussed semi-regularly, but when Jim's extension was exercised Wells had a blurb about how players weren't happy about it.

To be fair, there is a pretty big qualitative difference between "not happy" and "angry".

Since86
01-26-2011, 02:14 PM
Not happy can easily turn into angry, when you have a coach that does the things he's doing, especially when the team isn't winning.

That "not happy" was over 15months ago. I seriously doubt they've not changed their attitude one bit over the course of those months.