PDA

View Full Version : We have our Power Forward!



troyc11a
01-23-2011, 11:30 PM
I have seen enough. I read all these posts about how we need Anthony Randolph or some other scrub to be our PF. If anyone has been watching it is plain to see that our "present" and future PF is Psycho -T!

In games which Tyler has played at least 24 minutes - he averages 20/9. Really good PF's such as David West and Al Holford dont have that production in 34 mpg. I am not saying Tyler is on their leve right now, but I am saying that he produces more than enough to stop talking about signing a guy at the 4 next year. It appears the only thing holding him back is.... wait for it - J.O.B.

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 11:34 PM
dude we got blew out i dont think u can say "we have our PF!" over a game like that. How about a full season of production and the team plays well with him. Im a Tyler and a Pacer fan but the guy has a long way to go to be a good starter in the NBA. A good 6th man maybe. He is a black hole on offense which will take time for him to learn how to play with his teammates and not be a black hole.

pwee31
01-23-2011, 11:35 PM
I agree. That's why I've never changed my signature since the draft. Just waiting for him to get his opportunity.

smj887
01-23-2011, 11:36 PM
I sort of agree. I think best case scenario he's the team's answer at the 4, worst case scenario, he gives the team enough leverage to not go into full desperation mode and give Zach Randolph or someone a max deal next summer. Basically buying time while other pieces are acquired.

Trophy
01-23-2011, 11:39 PM
I missed my second game tonight and glad I did because of the bad loss, but I saw Tyler had 27 and 10.

Glad to see that from him, but we still need more at PF or at least see this Tyler consistently.

Kegboy
01-23-2011, 11:39 PM
Unless you expect Tyler to play 48 per next year, we're gonna have to sign somebody who can play the 4.

Oh, wait, nevermind. I forgot we'll still have Posey. :suicide5:

Shabazz
01-23-2011, 11:40 PM
Give Tyler starter minutes and he will foul out most opposing starting PFs, while also getting you into the bonus early in every quarter he starts.

I always loved getting to the bonus several minutes before the opposition did. All those extra FT attempts add up if you have players who can make them.

vnzla81
01-23-2011, 11:43 PM
dude we got blew out i dont think u can say "we have our PF!" over a game like that. How about a full season of production and the team plays well with him. Im a Tyler and a Pacer fan but the guy has a long way to go to be a good starter in the NBA. A good 6th man maybe. He is a black hole on offense which will take time for him to learn how to play with his teammates and not be a black hole.

A black hole is not a guy that scores 27 points,10 rebounds and makes 10 shots out of 17, compare him to our franchise black hole in Granger that made 2 shots out of 10 with a wooping 8 points.

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 11:45 PM
A black hole is not a guy that scores 27 points,10 rebounds and makes 10 shots out of 17, compare him to our franchise black hole in Granger that made 2 shots out of 10 with a wooping 8 points.

I love Tyler but he shoots way to much sometimes and isnt a good passer if he can learn to pass he might be a decent starter.

troyc11a
01-23-2011, 11:46 PM
Unless you expect Tyler to play 48 per next year, we're gonna have to sign somebody who can play the 4.

Oh, wait, nevermind. I forgot we'll still have Posey. :suicide5:



Now, thats both true and funny!

GrangerRanger
01-23-2011, 11:49 PM
I fully understand the sentiment. However, I think there are two massive underlying factors and not JOB that keep not only his playing time down but will be his downfall in the end.

Remember when everyone was pumped at the start of the season over Roy Hibbert's production? Look at him now. People had more footage to scout and saw that he couldn't box out, took leaner hook shots, and was virtually single minded offensively.

Give it some more time. Once teams figure out to go out and guard Tyler on his jumper, he'll pretty much be screwed. The guy plays below the rim more then a WNBA player.

And another factor in his playing time is his relentlessness. Do you really think he can sustain the same high level of play that he currently plays with for a full 35 minutes? Sure, he could have done it against boys in college. But these aren't boys, these are men. At the pace he plays, you're never going to see him put up those numbers on a consistent basis simply because he'll be too worn out.

Am I saying he is completely worthless? Nope. I agree with some others who post on here to say he is great for a sixth man, energy guy. But the Pacer's future is rather bleak with Physco T and Hungry Hibbert as our front court.

pwee31
01-23-2011, 11:50 PM
I love Tyler but he shoots way to much sometimes and isnt a good passer if he can learn to pass he might be a decent starter.

He shoots open shots though. He'll drive and force a couple shots every now and then, but I'd say he takes a good shot about 90% of the time

indypacerfan
01-23-2011, 11:51 PM
Tyler is coming along. I just wish he had one reliable post move that he could go to . What about developing a nice running hook?

Dr. Awesome
01-23-2011, 11:56 PM
:montieth:

owl
01-24-2011, 12:11 AM
I love Tyler but he shoots way to much sometimes and isnt a good passer if he can learn to pass he might be a decent starter.

If he can score with that efficiency he can be our primary scorer from now on as far as I am concerned. One game is one game but he is really making some progress.

BlueNGold
01-24-2011, 12:15 AM
I fully understand the sentiment. However, I think there are two massive underlying factors and not JOB that keep not only his playing time down but will be his downfall in the end.

Remember when everyone was pumped at the start of the season over Roy Hibbert's production? Look at him now. People had more footage to scout and saw that he couldn't box out, took leaner hook shots, and was virtually single minded offensively.

Give it some more time. Once teams figure out to go out and guard Tyler on his jumper, he'll pretty much be screwed. The guy plays below the rim more then a WNBA player.

And another factor in his playing time is his relentlessness. Do you really think he can sustain the same high level of play that he currently plays with for a full 35 minutes? Sure, he could have done it against boys in college. But these aren't boys, these are men. At the pace he plays, you're never going to see him put up those numbers on a consistent basis simply because he'll be too worn out.

Am I saying he is completely worthless? Nope. I agree with some others who post on here to say he is great for a sixth man, energy guy. But the Pacer's future is rather bleak with Physco T and Hungry Hibbert as our front court.

IDK about that. His game is unorthodox in a way that will be impossible to plan against. If you press him to stop his midrange, he will drive and do something goofy that works...that you simply cannot predict. That "talent" if you want to call that is only going to improve. That is his game. It's limited but is precisely why he was uber effective at NC. Sure, if you double him he's done...but so are most players.

Second, he played 30 minutes and didn't get worn out...on a back to back in Denver no less. He's played this style forever and while he might not go 45 minutes or more...he's solid for 35 which is probably fine.

Look at it this way...Tyler probably has more energy after 35 minutes than Troy Murphy has when he steps on the court.

Not saying Tyler is some dominant force, but he already has me convinced that with 35 mpg he can be a 15 and 8 PF which works as a starter. No, he's no superstar Tim Duncan. He's not even Al Horford. Probably Horford Lite. Still a good player.

imawhat
01-24-2011, 12:15 AM
Yes, we have our power forwards. I think that will be seen as they start getting heavy minutes.

Kid Minneapolis
01-24-2011, 12:20 AM
Always been a Hands-bro fan, was glad we drafted him, and thought he'd be a starter, if at least a valuable backup for a very good team. He's Foster with an offensive game and he just plain plays smart.

PacerGuy
01-24-2011, 12:41 AM
He shoots open shots though. He'll drive and force a couple shots every now and then, but I'd say he takes a good shot about 90% of the time

His hole is getting blacker & blacker!
I luv Tyler, but would like to see him pass more....

oxxo
01-24-2011, 12:44 AM
Hansbrough is not even close to a black hole. Z-bo, Ellis, Randolph are black holes. There's a huge difference between being a black hole and taking alot of shot attempts.

pizza guy
01-24-2011, 12:45 AM
Count me in the Hansbrough fan group. I was pretty skeptical when we drafted him, but I simply love the way he plays. Everyone is looking for a new PF, but I don't think that's what we need. What we really need, and I'm more and more convinced as this season goes on, is a really dynamic SG. IMO, if we had to trade Danny to get a player or draft pick that would net us a guy who can create, shoot, get fouled, and BE COUNTED ON IN THE CLUTCH, we'd have a good team.

DC/Granger or George/Hans/Hibbert makes a tremendous supporting cast for a real star. I think we all agree that Danny is pretty clearly a 2nd tier guy. He's not Kobe, LeBron, Wade, D Rose, etc. Either we trade him for "that guy" or we find "that guy" to add to the team, and suddenly we can compete on a nightly basis.

The trouble is, we're expecting more from Danny, Roy, and Tyler than they can really give us. I think Roy and Tyler still have room to improve, but we're not talking about Dwight Howard or Kevin Love. Danny has hit his ceiling, and it's a high ceiling. Getting him at the 17th pick was a steal. But none of these guys are true superstars, and as much as we hate to admit it, the NBA requires superstars.

Add a superstar and we've got a very good team. Until we find that superstar, we're going to be wandering around in 8th seed-10th seed purgatory. I believe that DC, Danny, Hans, and Hibbert would all start on other good teams. We need to fill the hole at 2, where we have a couple of decent bench players pretending to be starters.

vnzla81
01-24-2011, 12:51 AM
His hole is getting blacker & blacker!
I luv Tyler, but would like to see him pass more....

Pass the ball to who Foster? Or let me guess Dunleavy so he can shoot another fadeaway jumper? Please tell me how many power forwards are good at passing the ball in the NBA? 27 and 10 and he is a black hole? Come on now.

Hicks
01-24-2011, 12:52 AM
When he goes 10 for 17, I'm not sure that I care if he passes much.

pacer4ever
01-24-2011, 12:56 AM
When he goes 10 for 17, I'm not sure that I care if he passes much.

tell me how many times he will do that over the course of a full season?

PacerGuy
01-24-2011, 12:57 AM
Pass the ball to who Foster? Or let me guess Dunleavy so he can shoot another fadeaway jumper? Please tell me how many power forwards are good at passing the ball in the NBA? 27 and 10 and he is a black hole? Come on now.

Speaking from watching the last few games, not just tonight.
JO got killed for being more of a distribituter then Han's has been in the last few games, just say'n...

Hicks
01-24-2011, 01:00 AM
tell me how many times he will do that over the course of a full season?

On the nights that he does, I don't care if he doesn't pass much.

vnzla81
01-24-2011, 01:05 AM
tell me how many times he will do that over the course of a full season?

Nobody knows because he has never play a full season, if he keeps playing the way he is been playing I don't give a damn how many times he shoots.

Hicks
01-24-2011, 01:05 AM
Speaking from watching the last few games, not just tonight.
JO got killed for being more of a distribituter then Han's has been in the last few games, just say'n...

True. Then again, with Tyler, he's either a fringe starter or a 6th man. JO was supposed to be our star/superstar.

PacersPride
01-24-2011, 01:05 AM
Count me in the Hansbrough fan group. I was pretty skeptical when we drafted him, but I simply love the way he plays. Everyone is looking for a new PF, but I don't think that's what we need. What we really need, and I'm more and more convinced as this season goes on, is a really dynamic SG. IMO, if we had to trade Danny to get a player or draft pick that would net us a guy who can create, shoot, get fouled, and BE COUNTED ON IN THE CLUTCH, we'd have a good team.

DC/Granger or George/Hans/Hibbert makes a tremendous supporting cast for a real star. I think we all agree that Danny is pretty clearly a 2nd tier guy. He's not Kobe, LeBron, Wade, D Rose, etc. Either we trade him for "that guy" or we find "that guy" to add to the team, and suddenly we can compete on a nightly basis.

The trouble is, we're expecting more from Danny, Roy, and Tyler than they can really give us. I think Roy and Tyler still have room to improve, but we're not talking about Dwight Howard or Kevin Love. Danny has hit his ceiling, and it's a high ceiling. Getting him at the 17th pick was a steal. But none of these guys are true superstars, and as much as we hate to admit it, the NBA requires superstars.

Add a superstar and we've got a very good team. Until we find that superstar, we're going to be wandering around in 8th seed-10th seed purgatory. I believe that DC, Danny, Hans, and Hibbert would all start on other good teams. We need to fill the hole at 2, where we have a couple of decent bench players pretending to be starters.

enjoy the hustle hansbro gives the team, but he is not ready to be a starter, the game vs Boozer illustrated this. we need a vet PF to give Hansbro 2-3 seasons if that. a vet PF worthy of starting and a stud SG.

would seem like a package of Dunleavy, Rush, and a 1st would net us an elite SG.

pacer4ever
01-24-2011, 01:07 AM
Nobody knows because he has never play a full season, if he keeps playing the way he is been playing I don't give a damn how many times he shoots.

u guys are making it out to be like he is a Blake Griffen all-star type player. I guess i just dont get it I see him as a solid rotation player 6th man at best.

AesopRockOn
01-24-2011, 01:07 AM
Tyler is not a starter. At this point, he's a poor man's Glen Davis, working his way up to become a regular income man's Glen Davis.

Shabazz
01-24-2011, 01:10 AM
Tyler is not a starter. At this point, he's a poor man's Glen Davis, working his way up to become a regular income man's Glen Davis.

Glen Davis would have a heart attack if he tried to keep up with Hansbrough for a whole game.

That is assuming Davis could avoid getting into serious foul trouble while trying to guard Tyler.

pacer4ever
01-24-2011, 01:11 AM
Glen Davis would have a heart attack if he tried to keep up with Hansbrough for a whole game.

That is assuming Davis could avoid getting into serious foul trouble while trying to guard Tyler.

u must not watch a lot of big baby he is pretty tough

Shabazz
01-24-2011, 01:13 AM
u must not watch a lot of big baby he is pretty tough

I don't think I said a word about his toughness.

I commented on his physical stamina and his ability to stay out of foul trouble while guarding a guy who is legendary for being able to draw fouls.

vnzla81
01-24-2011, 01:14 AM
I have a feeling that if instead of Tyler Josh was the one scoring his career high tonight we would have more than one person telling us how great he is and how amazing he is, but because Tyler is the slow undersize white guy, is impossible for him to continue playing this well.

pacer4ever
01-24-2011, 01:15 AM
I have a feeling that if instead of Tyler Josh was the one scoring his career high tonight we would have more than one person telling us how great he is and how amazing he is, but because Tyler is the slow undersize white guy, is impossible for him to continue playing this well.

Now u have to pull a race card?? wow

Sookie
01-24-2011, 01:17 AM
Now u have to pull a race card?? wow

uh..Josh is white too. It's more like the "athletic" card.

Tyler's been successful his entire career, at every level.
Do I think he's a starter, no..I think his best role on a good team is energy guy off the bench. Because he should be the offensive focus when he's in the game, and he shouldn't be the offensive focus in the starting lineup.

pacer4ever
01-24-2011, 01:19 AM
uh..Josh is white too. It's more like the "athletic" card.

Tyler's been successful his entire career, at every level.
Do I think he's a starter, no..I think his best role on a good team is energy guy off the bench. Because he should be the offensive focus when he's in the game, and he shouldn't be the offensive focus in the starting lineup.

Tyler is just as atlhltic as Josh at least his numbers at the combine were

righteouscool
01-24-2011, 01:22 AM
u guys are making it out to be like he is a Blake Griffen all-star type player. I guess i just dont get it I see him as a solid rotation player 6th man at best.

Blake Griffin is at another level and this is (sort of) his rookie year. I don't think anyone expects Tyler to be that good, but he can be a solid player.

PacersPride
01-24-2011, 01:22 AM
Tyler is just as atlhltic as Josh at least his numbers at the combine were

josh has a couple inches but hansbro has the stronger frame, both are very athletic.

pizza guy
01-24-2011, 01:22 AM
enjoy the hustle hansbro gives the team, but he is not ready to be a starter, the game vs Boozer illustrated this. we need a vet PF to give Hansbro 2-3 seasons if that. a vet PF worthy of starting and a stud SG.

would seem like a package of Dunleavy, Rush, and a 1st would net us an elite SG.

Hans has some work to do, but I like having him in the starting lineup. We all want to see JO'B play the guys who we consider "future" guys, so they can develop and have a future. Getting a vet PF to play in front of Tyler would hinder that. Tyler is practically a rookie, but he is 25, so it's not like we have the time with him that we have with PG24 or Lance (lol). Play Tyler, let him learn on the fly. He's a hard-worker and I'm sure he's doing what he can to improve his play against the vets at his position.


Now u have to pull a race card?? wow

Yeah, I'm with you. If Josh had the big night...he'd still be white too. I really don't think there's a place for the race card in this, or any, discussion.

xBulletproof
01-24-2011, 01:27 AM
tell me how many times he will do that over the course of a full season?

Tyler as a rookie was a black hole. He took the shot every time he touched the ball because he didn't know what else to do. This year he's taking open shots, and moving the ball otherwise. No he's not an advanced passer, but he finds someone and keeps the ball moving. That's not a black hole. In any event, he shot 10-17, so I don't know how many times per year he could do that, but it's not even 60% from the field. It's not something he can't repeat. No idea why you wanted to make it sound like he did something only Jordan could do.

DieHard
01-24-2011, 02:29 AM
Give Tyler starter minutes and he will foul out most opposing starting PFs, while also getting you into the bonus early in every quarter he starts.

I always loved getting to the bonus several minutes before the opposition did. All those extra FT attempts add up if you have players who can make them.

yeah but we don't have any other players who draw fouls

15th parallel
01-24-2011, 02:45 AM
Tyler a black hole? He made more than half of his shot attempts and is only one of the few on the game that had a good offensive outing. If I'm the coach I would be instructing the team to focus the offense to him (and George).

In my opinion, the only way Tyler starts to pass more is when he starts to become a scoring threat to get double teams and other guys try to cut more inside when Tyler attracts the defense. Besides, Tyler's game is more attacking inside to score or draw fouls. This is what we've been asking Danny and some others to do. He also converts foul shots at a high rate for a big man.

Plus, it's not that Tyler gets the inbound pass from the opposite court, brings it down, calls an iso play, dribbles and holds the ball too long, and jacks up an ill-advised shot. This year he pretty much positions himself to spots where he's comfortable shooting, resulting in higher FG% as compared to last year. And most of the time he knows what to do when he gets the ball.

cdash
01-24-2011, 02:55 AM
I don't know if he is, and I don't know if he isn't. I would love to spend the rest of this season finding out what we have in him and Paul George though. If he can post some of these numbers in winning efforts, then I would be thrilled and TPTB might not feel the need to throw so much money at another PF in free agency.

15th parallel
01-24-2011, 02:56 AM
u guys are making it out to be like he is a Blake Griffen all-star type player. I guess i just dont get it I see him as a solid rotation player 6th man at best.

Reading all the posts, I have not seen anyone implying that he's at Blake Griffin level. There is a reason why he's picked so high and Tyler was available at pick #13. It's just that we need to give him big, consistent minutes given how much he can produce when playing longer. It's not that he's given a regular 25mpg and he rarely gets double digits in points or rebounds. What we know based from his output is give him more minutes and reduces Posey's and he's sure to contribute significantly. Same also for George, who is doing better offensively than Rush and better defensively than Dun.

pizza guy
01-24-2011, 03:32 AM
Watching Tyler play this year, "black hole" has been about the last thing I've thought of. How does he score the most? Elbow jumpers, free throws, and put back dunks. When he gets the ball at the elbow, he's very confident in his shot (so am I), and if he's got it open, he'll knock it down. If he sees a lane to attack, he does so, usually getting fouled. He rarely stands around with the ball, he makes pretty quick decisions. Maybe not quick like a point guard, but he does play PF, so there's that.

Also, I'm not sure where the notion that making 10 of 17 shots is bad came from. I didn't get to see the game tonight, so correct me if I'm wrong, but they must have been decent shots, right? I mean, if he's hitting shots like that, why didn't he shoot 37? Maybe he needs to be more aggressive? I don't know. But, to call him a black hole is misguided. Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington, TJ Ford -- those guys are black holes.

Peck
01-24-2011, 03:38 AM
Again I couldn't give a crap less if it's Josh or Tyler who starts, whoever doesn't start should back up the other and no more Posey at the four.

ilive4sports
01-24-2011, 03:56 AM
Again I couldn't give a crap less if it's Josh or Tyler who starts, whoever doesn't start should back up the other and no more Posey at the four.

This Peck guy knows a thing or two.

CableKC
01-24-2011, 05:01 AM
I hope that he can continue to build upon this...but for now, I think that he will be a marginal Starting PF....but I think that he'd be better suited to be the 1st Big Man off the bench.

I am more then willing to admit that I am wrong....but I'd still prefer that we look for a Starting Quality PF next season.

Kstat
01-24-2011, 05:22 AM
I guess there were concerns over his health, but you can't tell me it wasn't clear long before this that Tyler was the best PF on the Pacers....

McRoberts is a good backup, but he just doesn't have the polish that Tyler does.

Heisenberg
01-24-2011, 06:09 AM
I dunno if he's the "answer," kinda doubt it, but I was just glad to see him take an elbow to the head and bounce back up. I was terrified for a split second.

xIndyFan
01-24-2011, 09:42 AM
I hope that he can continue to build upon this...but for now, I think that he will be a marginal Starting PF....but I think that he'd be better suited to be the 1st Big Man off the bench.

I am more then willing to admit that I am wrong....but I'd still prefer that we look for a Starting Quality PF next season.

:iagree: this. tyler is an energy player. nice spot up shooter. good at drawing fouls. will make a nice 6th man to come in and get the team going. he seems to be a work in progress on defense though. but he is progressing. his rotations are better than at the start of the season. his foot and hand work in the post seems improved. his biggest problem is being slightly undersized combined with no hops. guys can shoot over him or power past him. but there are still 20 or 30 better PF's in the league better than him.

pacers still need a starter at the 4 for next year.

MTM
01-24-2011, 10:54 AM
Watching Tyler play this year, "black hole" has been about the last thing I've thought of. How does he score the most? Elbow jumpers, free throws, and put back dunks. When he gets the ball at the elbow, he's very confident in his shot (so am I), and if he's got it open, he'll knock it down. If he sees a lane to attack, he does so, usually getting fouled. He rarely stands around with the ball, he makes pretty quick decisions.


Tyler is a willing passer when a cutter slashes through the lane. He recognizes when guys are open and will hit them if they have a better shot. He is not a black hole. He is, however, a PF who looks for his own shot. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. This team has plenty of guards and wings who are looking for long, contested jumpers. Give me elbow jumpers from a 50% plus shooter and/or drives to the lane which draw foul shots any day of the week over three point shots taken out of context of the offense (by the PF, particularly), or worse, heaved up as the shot clock expires.

I think maybe it's been so long that we have seen a Pacers team run back-to-the-basket post up basketball, or seen a big who wants the ball and consistently looks for his shot, that we don't know how to classify it. I would classify it as basic, simple, winning basketball - with the right players in place.

SMosley21
01-24-2011, 12:49 PM
tell me how many times he will do that over the course of a full season?

Considering O'Brien won't give him consistent minutes, how is anyone supposed to know the answer to that question?

pacer4ever
01-24-2011, 12:50 PM
Considering O'Brien won't give him consistent minutes, how is anyone supposed to know the answer to that question?

I'll agree with this

Day-V
01-24-2011, 02:08 PM
:haters:

PR07
01-24-2011, 02:16 PM
I think it's a bit premature. If he can do this consistently, then yes. I will say he does give us definite hope at the position however. At the worst, he's probably a really good big man to have on our bench.

PacerHound
01-24-2011, 02:16 PM
I missed my second game tonight and glad I did because of the bad loss, but I saw Tyler had 27 and 10.

Glad to see that from him, but we still need more at PF or at least see this Tyler consistently.

How can you see this consistently from a guy that up until last night was only averaging 15.5 minutes a game and only very rarely sees a 20 minute game?

Day-V
01-24-2011, 02:18 PM
I think Tyler's played pretty well since the San Antonio game.

PacerHound
01-24-2011, 02:25 PM
His hole is getting blacker & blacker!
I luv Tyler, but would like to see him pass more....

Why would we not want our guys that shoot the highest percentages doing the shooting? Compare Tyler's FG percentage against that of the rest of the team.

Eleazar
01-24-2011, 02:47 PM
I don't think anyone will complaing about Hansbrough shooting a lot when he makes over 50% of his shots, it is those nights when he isn't shooting well that it becomes a problem. Hansbrough has clearly shown the tendency to just keep shooting even if he isn't shooting well, so has Granger so it isn't like Hansbrough is the only player we should be complaining about.

Also if Hansbrough was the answer at PF I would expect to see this team win a few more games, since Hansbrough and McRoberts switched positions this team has done no better than when it was McRoberts starting and getting all the minutes. You can't call him the answer when nothing is different.

CableKC
01-24-2011, 02:58 PM
I dunno if he's the "answer," kinda doubt it, but I was just glad to see him take an elbow to the head and bounce back up. I was terrified for a split second.
Talking about elbows....I notice that whenever Hansbrough grabs....no, a better word is...RIPS....a rebound away from opponents and/or Teammates...his elbows are incredibly high relative to his chest.

I don't really notice it with anyone else....maybe cuz I pay more attention to him when he plays....but one day.....I can totally see Hansbrough elbow someone in the face while pulling down a rebound with those elbows of his...not that this is a bad thing.

Seriously, when he rebounds the ball.....he grabs it like it's his and won't give it to anyone. If he played last season and he was on the court at the same time as Murphy....Hansbrough would have knocked Murphy the hell out with those razor shart elbows fighting for a rebound.

pizza guy
01-24-2011, 03:00 PM
I don't think anyone will complaing about Hansbrough shooting a lot when he makes over 50% of his shots, it is those nights when he isn't shooting well that it becomes a problem. Hansbrough has clearly shown the tendency to just keep shooting even if he isn't shooting well, so has Granger so it isn't like Hansbrough is the only player we should be complaining about.

Also if Hansbrough was the answer at PF I would expect to see this team win a few more games, since Hansbrough and McRoberts switched positions this team has done no better than when it was McRoberts starting and getting all the minutes. You can't call him the answer when nothing is different.

I can see a big difference in the production of Tyler vs McRoberts. The difference in team performance is there, but the win/loss difference isn't because for some reason, the 4th quarter is James Posey's turn to play PF...

CableKC
01-24-2011, 03:02 PM
:iagree: this. tyler is an energy player. nice spot up shooter. good at drawing fouls. will make a nice 6th man to come in and get the team going. he seems to be a work in progress on defense though. but he is progressing. his rotations are better than at the start of the season. his foot and hand work in the post seems improved. his biggest problem is being slightly undersized combined with no hops. guys can shoot over him or power past him. but there are still 20 or 30 better PF's in the league better than him.

pacers still need a starter at the 4 for next year.
Yeah...that is what I see. I have no problem with classifying him as a "very solid 1st Big Man off the bench" type player for a Playoff bound Team ( which I think that he is better suited for )....as opposed to an "okay starter" for a Playoff bound Team.

I still think that he has to work on his foul prone nature and mid-range jump shot ( he's not consistent ).....but I think that those will come in time.

For now, IMHO...his "floor" is "a very solid 1st Big Man off the Bench" for the Team that we are building now. For where we drafted him...I can't ask for anything more.

xBulletproof
01-24-2011, 03:06 PM
Hansbrough has clearly shown the tendency to just keep shooting even if he isn't shooting well.

What are you talking about? I'll list EVERY game Hansbrough has shot under 50% this year.

2 - 6 (three times)
3 - 8 (twice)
0 - 1 (three times)
1 - 4
0 - 2 (twice)
2 - 5
4 - 9
5 - 12
0 - 4

This is 15 of his 31 games. Out of these 14 games he was 1 made shot from 50% in all but 4 of them. This is far from showing that he just keeps on shooting even when he isn't making shots. So where exactly did that idea come from?

Eleazar
01-24-2011, 03:20 PM
What are you talking about? I'll list EVERY game Hansbrough has shot under 50% this year.

2 - 6 (three times)
3 - 8 (twice)
0 - 1 (three times)
1 - 4
0 - 2 (twice)
2 - 5
4 - 9
5 - 12
0 - 4

This is 15 of his 31 games. Out of these 14 games he was 1 made shot from 50% in all but 4 of them. This is far from showing that he just keeps on shooting even when he isn't making shots. So where exactly did that idea come from?

First of all it is also about the amount of time he plays. While he has improved from last year there are still many cases where he will take more shots than he should for how he is shooting.

Maybe I just have a higher standard for PF/C than the rest of this board, but if a player is shooting around .500 than he is shooting too much, especially if he isn't shooting .500 for the season. Which at this point Hansbrough is at .466.

xBulletproof
01-24-2011, 03:27 PM
While he has improved from last year there are still many cases where he will take more shots than he should for how he is shooting.

How so? We just went over it. He was a single shot away from 50% in all but 3 games. In those 3 games he was 0-2, 0-2 and 0-4.

So again, I repeat, how is it he shoots too much when he isn't making shots?

Eleazar
01-24-2011, 03:30 PM
How so? We just went over it. He was a single shot away from 50% in all but 3 games. In those 3 games he was 0-2, 0-2 and 0-4.

So again, I repeat, how is it he shoots too much when he isn't making shots?

Like I said and you quoted he has improved, but he still does it which is too many times every time.

xBulletproof
01-24-2011, 03:33 PM
Like I said and you quoted he has improved, but he still does it which is too many times every time.

You're making less than no sense right now.

90'sNBARocked
01-24-2011, 04:56 PM
Coming from someone who literally smashed his TV when it was announced we took Tyler...........

The kid has grown on me. Especially between this year and last. This year he looks like he belongs. I dont think he will ever be an all'star but depending on who is around him, can be an above average starter

What i love the most is he is a "throwback player"

Now I will play the race card here

He is the white Dale Davis

For that I will always love him, and wish he would just walk up to Brandon and smack him in the face, stare him down, and walk away

judicata
01-24-2011, 05:51 PM
I think it's a bit premature. If he can do this consistently, then yes. I will say he does give us definite hope at the position however. At the worst, he's probably a really good big man to have on our bench.

If he goes for 27 and 10 consistently then he's making the All-Star team and the HOF. He can do considerably less consistently and be a quality starting PF. 15/8 puts him in pretty good company.

Sookie
01-24-2011, 06:04 PM
Yea, I agree..I think Hans takes his bad shots when he's making shots. Which is actually pretty normal for younger players. (A heat check)

Trophy
01-24-2011, 06:10 PM
He's has the potential to play the post better rather than settle for a poor field goal.

speakout4
01-24-2011, 07:22 PM
We haven't had a PF who could do 27 and a legitimate non-Murphy 10 that i can remember in a very very long time.

judicata
01-24-2011, 07:22 PM
I think this is mostly an extension of his inability to pass the "eyeball test." Its odd to see fans consistently project a second year player lower than his better performances after they have already happened. He's hit the 20 point mark 3 times this season, and only played over 20 minutes 12 times. He is getting it done. But it is ugly, and thus he will always be a energy bench player.

I am curious, what would you say the objective statistical threshold for a PF is for the following:

1) Last big on the bench
2) 6th man
3) decent starting PF
4) Good starting PF on a good team
5) Star



As for shot selection, pick and pop open jumpers are only bad shots when the shooter can't make them.

speakout4
01-24-2011, 07:25 PM
27 points and 10 real in the paint contested rebounds is a good start at the 4.

BlueNGold
01-24-2011, 09:52 PM
I'm beginning to think we have a bigger problem at C.

As for Tyler, his ceiling is not that high but it's starting quality. I can see him being about as good as the post-injured version of Antonio McDyess with that midrange game.

What really are his weaknesses? Compare his FG% to last year. Compare his decision-making in the paint. Dude knows he's not a sky walker and is now draining the midrange like I said a long, long time ago he would need to be able to do....because he's not throwing it down on every NBA big man he meets.

Let's just say he's adjusted massively and hasn't even played a full season of NBA basketball. If he improves more, which no one believes he will, he is most definitely our PF of the future.

Pacerfan
01-24-2011, 10:06 PM
So Ben Hansbrough is trending on twitter after his 19 points and 7 assists (yes he can pass) for ND (15) in their upset of Pitt (2). Good couple of days for the Hansbrough family despite Pacers losing.

troyc11a
01-24-2011, 10:19 PM
I'm beginning to think we have a bigger problem at C.

As for Tyler, his ceiling is not that high but it's starting quality. I can see him being about as good as the post-injured version of Antonio McDyess with that midrange game.

What really are his weaknesses? Compare his FG% to last year. Compare his decision-making in the paint. Dude knows he's not a sky walker and is now draining the midrange like I said a long, long time ago he would need to be able to do....because he's not throwing it down on every NBA big man he meets.

Let's just say he's adjusted massively and hasn't even played a full season of NBA basketball. If he improves more, which no one believes he will, he is most definitely our PF of the future.


I find it interesting to read all these posts which are bashing the one guy who is bringing it every night he gets to play. For the minutes he plays, Tyler is outproducing almost all PF's in the league. Am I saying he will be a 20/10 man for his career? No! But the PF position is not even close to being our weakest position on the court.

I agree with you that Center is a real concern. I am not giving up on Roy, but he is not bringing it at all.

If the Pacers could get a solid contribution from Roy and Danny every night, solidify the 2 spot, they could easily be a playoff team. The good news is Roy still has the talent and George is looking like a player. I am not sure if he will be a 2 or a 3 though.

Shabazz
01-24-2011, 11:15 PM
I think this is mostly an extension of his inability to pass the "eyeball test."



People have been been doubting Tyler since high school. They love to say he won't get it done at the next level or to point out how his limitations will hold him back. He consistently makes those doubters eat crow.

cavheel
01-25-2011, 11:58 AM
Being a Heel fan, yes I am biased, but considering 'Bro has only started 9 games and is averaging 12.6 points, 6.3 boards in only 23.28 minutes in those 9 games, that is a solid start for anyone. All-Star numbers, no, but solid starter numbers.

Talk to anyone who has followed 'Bro for a while and they will tell you he looks like a goofy freak flying all over the place, but he will get the job done. Next season, if JOB lets him remain the starter, AND GIVES HIM STARTER MINUTES, he will average 19 and 9. Tell me how many teams would not take that out of their starting 4. Yes, every team wants a 24 and 13 guy like Griffin and Love, but look around the league. They are the exceptions, not the rule.

One thing you can guarantee from 'Bro is that he will give you everything he has, every time on the court. The one thing you may have to worry about is injuries because he does play with that reckless abandon in the mold of Bob Sanders / Troy Polamalu. Those guys sacrifice their bodies every play just like you will get with 'Bro. He is not the athletic freaks that they are, but his will is just as strong. Use the teabagging of Dunleavy on that follow-up dunk as an example.