PDA

View Full Version : 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets



Pages : 1 [2]

LA_Confidential
01-23-2011, 10:27 PM
only 2 more wins than last yr at the half way mark



:picardriker:

Improvement.:confused::whoknows:

vnzla81
01-23-2011, 10:27 PM
Hansborough had a really good game. Odds on JOB pulling out his irrelevant line?

I don't think he is pulling the irrelevant line but I think he is pulling the "we know how good he is so we are going to bench him for Posey" card

righteouscool
01-23-2011, 10:27 PM
If George didn't improve one bit from this point forward, he'd be an above average role player.

Pretty impressive for someone that was incredibly raw.

Sookie
01-23-2011, 10:30 PM
I don't blame this on Collison and Danny

I blame Danny and the defense. Price was playing well enough that he could have covered for Collison if Danny and the defense had picked up.

As it was, Danny was bad and the defense was worse. Part of that is player rotations (sigh) and part of it, I think...is the players not really caring..and probably being tired (starters played a lot of minutes last night)

Peck
01-23-2011, 10:30 PM
I really hope I wake up, garb my coffee , jump on the internet to read

"O'Brien out as coach in Indy"

Hey as long as your willing to drop acid before you go to bed you can see anything you want when you wake up.:D

Shabazz
01-23-2011, 10:32 PM
Lawson has over a 7:1 A:TO ratio over last 6 games. I love this kid.

Kid had a sick A/To ratio his final year in college. No one in the NBA can dribble that fast AND protect the ball so well. What is sad is that due to the number of ballhogs on that Nuggets team, Lawson rarely gets many chances to push the ball end-to-end like he did so often at UNC. Every Nuggets guard/wing wants to bring the ball up the court themselves after a defensive rebound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgRgE47my7M

Justin Tyme
01-23-2011, 10:33 PM
Rush two straight blocks on Melo. Yea, he sucks.


How come those 2 blocks don't show up in the box score? The Pacers had 1 BS, and it was by Price.

TheDon
01-23-2011, 10:34 PM
You know how you know a joke isn't funny? When you have to announce that it's a joke.

Ironic coming from the guy who constantly tells everybody else how unfunny and unoriginal their jokes are.

I'm glad I didn't have to be the one that said it for a change. THANK..YOU

ilive4sports
01-23-2011, 10:34 PM
Hey as long as your willing to drop acid before you go to bed you can see anything you want when you wake up.:D

Games would be far more enjoyable!

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 10:35 PM
Kid had a sick A/To ratio his final year in college. No one in the NBA can dribble that fast AND protect the ball so well. What is sad is that due to the number of ballhogs on that Nuggets team, Lawson rarely gets many chances to push the ball end-to-end like he did so often at UNC. Every Nuggets guard/wing wants to bring the ball up the court themselves after a defensive rebound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgRgE47my7M

Marshall at UNC is gonna be just as good if not better

Shabazz
01-23-2011, 10:36 PM
Its amazing how many fouls this kids draws. I mean the dude can't even shoot over anyone down low, and yet they see fit to foul him every time.

This isn't exactly something new. He's been the best post player at drawing fouls for as long as I've watched him play.

He owns the NCAA record for most free throws made in a career. So he not only draws the fouls and gets his team into the bonus early, but he makes his FT attempts more often than not.

Dr. Awesome
01-23-2011, 10:41 PM
How come those 2 blocks don't show up in the box score? The Pacers had 1 BS, and it was by Price.

I'm not sure but anyone watching the game clearly saw Rush block him twice.

Dr. Awesome
01-23-2011, 10:43 PM
Marshall at UNC is gonna be just as good if not better

Marshall will be a much better passer. He is probably the best passer I have seen in college in a long time, but I doubt he will be able to control the ball like Lawson does.

Trophy
01-23-2011, 10:44 PM
I missed my second game of the year tonight.

I'm really happy that Tyler and Paul had big games, but it doesn't appear that I've really missed anything.

Danny really had just 8 points? After having 32 two times in a row and then 24.

DGPR
01-23-2011, 10:48 PM
It's official, the wheels have fallen off and we're on our way to 32 wins and another season of substandard hell!

graphic-er
01-23-2011, 11:39 PM
I missed my second game of the year tonight.

I'm really happy that Tyler and Paul had big games, but it doesn't appear that I've really missed anything.

Danny really had just 8 points? After having 32 two times in a row and then 24.

To be fair, he did pick up 2 quick bogus fouls in the first qtr and also left the game in the 4th with a mild ankle sprain.

BRushWithDeath
01-24-2011, 12:40 AM
To be fair, he did pick up 2 quick bogus fouls in the first qtr and also left the game in the 4th with a mild ankle sprain.

Emphasis on mild.

Mackey_Rose
01-24-2011, 12:56 AM
Emphasis on mild.

He had a mild right labia sprain. Should be day-to-day.

judicata
01-24-2011, 01:30 AM
Marshall at UNC is gonna be just as good if not better

Totally different kind of point. Lawson is a 1 man fast break. He might be the fastest player in the league from paint to paint with the ball. Marshall is more like Kidd. Old, slow Kidd. (Love me some Marshall though)

CableKC
01-24-2011, 03:46 AM
I watched part of the 2nd and 3rd QTR and saw how they were doing, so I turned the game off and did something else. I didn't know about the offensive performance from PG and Hansbrough...so I'm pleasantly surprised.

I've said this before.....sink or swim with the kids.....as long as J'OB is playing them....we will make mistakes...but this is what we have been asking for....I'm going to do my best to not complain about JO'B so that I can complain about something.

All of you wanted JO'B to play the young Players....now we have more ( but inconsistent ) playing time for AJ/PG/Hansbrough. Just so that we don't focus on the negative so much...let's look at the positive....AJ dished out 8 assists, Hansbrough and PG had career nights on the offensive end. I know that they likely made mistakes...but we didn't lose because of JO'B....we played a superior and more experienced Team that simply outplayed us.

I just hope that we continue with AJ, Hansbrough and PG getting consistent minutes.

pacer4ever
01-24-2011, 09:17 AM
Marshall will be a much better passer. He is probably the best passer I have seen in college in a long time, but I doubt he will be able to control the ball like Lawson does.

Lawson is just so fast and such good decsion maker. I wanted him last yr so bad.

graphic-er
01-24-2011, 09:37 AM
Just in interesting observation....last night, guess who started the 2nd half? The one line up everyone was clamoring about. DC, PG, DG, TH, RH. That line up accounted for only 5 points in the 2+ minutes it was in there, and gave up about double that with wide open 3 and dunks.

Speed
01-24-2011, 09:51 AM
My favorite (green) quotes from after the loss last night...

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110124/SPORTS04/101240329/Pacers-finish-trip-121-107-loss-Nuggets?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s

Written by

Mike Wells (mike.wells@indystar.com)

1/22/11
"We don't have a low-post presence. When you have no low-post presence, you're going to struggle. You need a low-post presence in the NBA. We put ourselves in a position to win three out of four and didn't get the job done in the fourth quarter."


"If you're not scoring on a high rate down on the low post, you have to find ways to score," O'Brien said. "We're struggling to get a balance inside, outside. We haven't really had an inside scoring presence in two months."


-------------

So it looked like maybe Roy was starting to get some of his form back and BOOM!!!, Obie essentially blames it all on Roy. Nice work, Obie.

Maybe and over simplification, but didn't Roy's slide coincide with Obie stating how he's didn't think Roy was playing that well, back when Roy was really playing well.

Not trying to hijack this or turn it into another fire Obie thread, but I thought this was a tough way to handle this.

Speed
01-24-2011, 10:07 AM
Another thing that bothered me about this trip.

Over coaching or failure to adjust.

Blake Griffin - Obie told the media that Blake was a face up game away from being unstoppable, so Obie had players play off of Blake, he drops 47 on them with only one dunk.


Melo - shooting 25% on 3s for the year, Obie had players give Melo the 3, he hits 6/7 in the 4th quarter.

"Carmelo is shooting 25 percent (on 3-pointers). That is the shot we are going to give him and he made them." – Pacers coach Jim O'Brien " <O:p
Monta Ellis - I'm not sure what the deal was, but the game plan wasn't effective.

I get trying to take away a guys strength, but this isn't highschool or college, you can't invite a player to do these things.

More importantly, once it doesn't work, adjust, mid game.

I don't know if the Pacer players aren't good enough to play teams straight up or if the coach just thinks he has to implement these things to try to impact the game.

It's just the opposite of what the Colts always say, "we do what we do"....Pacers say "we do any kind of gimmick because its the only chance we have"

Reeks of desperation and lack of confidence in your players.

Mackey_Rose
01-24-2011, 10:11 AM
Say what you want about O'Brien being the worst in-game coach in the league, and you would always be right.

But one thing you can't take away from him, he's extremely tactful with the media. I can't imagine any other coach handling Roy's mental roller coaster personality better.

When he has things going, publicly chop him down to the ground with criticism. Start from scratch. Wait two months for him to show any signs of life that he might be coming out of the funk that the first public beatdown put him in. Then, viciously take him back down to the ground again.

Yep, that is clearly the best way to go with this guy. People skills, folks. You just can't teach that.

McKeyFan
01-24-2011, 10:19 AM
He had a mild right labia sprain. Should be day-to-day.
Then Dick Harter should not get involved.

Mackey_Rose
01-24-2011, 10:37 AM
Then Dick Harter should not get involved.

I suppose I should understand that reference, but I'd be lying if I said I did.

PaceBalls
01-24-2011, 10:54 AM
So Roy's decline is because Jim called him out to the media and it hurt Roy's feelings... right.

Speed
01-24-2011, 11:03 AM
So Roy's decline is because Jim called him out to the media and it hurt Roy's feelings... right.

Didn't it coincide with it? I'd have to research it to see when that media quote happened, I'm guessing early December, late November.

I know, I know, toughen up, boot straps and all. That does work for some players.

No way to know, what caused what, its all imperical and opinion.

Seems possible if the timing is right, though.

I'd probably use the calling out a guy in the media tactic for guys who are boneheads and maybe not working as hard as they could, not guys who were playing above there previous level and seem to be doing all the right things preparation wise.

Also, if I was the coach, I'd probably do it privately, to not embarrass as guy, unless again, he's a bonehead and thats the only thing that motivates him.

I don't see Roy as a bonehead or a guy who's not working hard.

BRushWithDeath
01-24-2011, 11:08 AM
Didn't it coincide with it? I'd have to research it to see when that media quote happened, I'm guessing early December, late November.

I know, I know, toughen up, boot straps and all. That does work for some players.

No way to know, what caused what, its all imperical and opinion.

Seems possible if the timing is right.

I would normally dismiss the notion that a newspaper quote could damage the way a player performs out of principle but if there is one player that I could buy the argument it is Roy Hibbert.

Great guy but the definition of mental midget.

PaceBalls
01-24-2011, 11:28 AM
Didn't it coincide with it? I'd have to research it to see when that media quote happened, I'm guessing early December, late November.

I know, I know, toughen up, boot straps and all. That does work for some players.

No way to know, what caused what, its all imperical and opinion.

Seems possible if the timing is right, though.

I'd probably use the calling out a guy in the media tactic for guys who are boneheads and maybe not working as hard as they could, not guys who were playing above there previous level and seem to be doing all the right things preparation wise.

Also, if I was the coach, I'd probably do it privately, to not embarrass as guy, unless again, he's a bonehead and thats the only thing that motivates him.

I don't see Roy as a bonehead or a guy who's not working hard.

Do you really think Roy is like some weak minded teenage girl who cannot take criticism?

Speed
01-24-2011, 11:36 AM
Do you really think Roy is like some weak minded teenage girl who cannot take criticism?

I think there are different ways to address different players to get the most out of them. I don't think calling Roy out in the media is the most effective in this situation.

I think the 'one size fits all' mindset is amatuerish at best.

CableKC
01-24-2011, 01:33 PM
Another thing that bothered me about this trip.

Over coaching or failure to adjust.

Blake Griffin - Obie told the media that Blake was a face up game away from being unstoppable, so Obie had players play off of Blake, he drops 47 on them with only one dunk.


Melo - shooting 25% on 3s for the year, Obie had players give Melo the 3, he hits 6/7 in the 4th quarter.

"Carmelo is shooting 25 percent (on 3-pointers). That is the shot we are going to give him and he made them." – Pacers coach Jim O'Brien " <O:p
Monta Ellis - I'm not sure what the deal was, but the game plan wasn't effective.

I get trying to take away a guys strength, but this isn't highschool or college, you can't invite a player to do these things.

More importantly, once it doesn't work, adjust, mid game.

I don't know if the Pacer players aren't good enough to play teams straight up or if the coach just thinks he has to implement these things to try to impact the game.

It's just the opposite of what the Colts always say, "we do what we do"....Pacers say "we do any kind of gimmick because its the only chance we have"

Reeks of desperation and lack of confidence in your players.
Realistically, you're talking about JO'B failing to adjust to limit the scoring effectiveness of 3 fairly unstoppable scorers in the NBA. I'm guessing that there are 29 other Coaches that couldn't stop or limit their scoring IF they were in JO'Bs shoes with the Pacers roster.

I'll admit that JO'B is very slow to adjust and often puts himself in a position to not "throw every weapon as his disposal" to limit the other Team ( such as having McBob glued to the bench against the Clippers ), but there wasn't really anything that Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan or Gregg Popavish could have done IF they were coaching this Team while using the same roster to limit the scoring onslaught that we've witnessed with Griffin/Monta/Melo. We just aren't that good of a Team.

EDIT - take Melo out of my post....I didn't know that he was a streaky 3pt shooter and the Coaching Strategy was to simply let him take it. At least for Melo....after the 3rd or 4th 3pt shot made...I'd think that someone ( whether it be the Coach and/or the Players ) would not leave him wide open. But my comment still stands for Griffin and Monta....there was very little that the Team could do against those 2.

BRushWithDeath
01-24-2011, 01:46 PM
Do you really think Roy is like some weak minded teenage girl who cannot take criticism?

If you changed teenage girl to 20-something male, then absolutely.

Since86
01-24-2011, 01:57 PM
I suppose I should understand that reference, but I'd be lying if I said I did.

Dick Harter is Jim's father-in-law, and he was an assistant to the team. It sounds like Dick Harder...

You made a joke about the female genetalia, which he responded with another Pacer reference about male genetalia.....

Since86
01-24-2011, 02:01 PM
Whether or not you think Roy should be able to handle it, isn't the discussion.

I think Roy should be a little tougher skinned, just by the fact that Jim of all people is the one saying it. Jim's opinion on basketball related matters shouldn't carry that much weight, but unfortunately he is the coach.....

Obviously it does affect Roy, so now the discussion is what to do about it and how it should be corrected.

Blaming Roy does neither, even if it's warranted. But then again, that's Jim's problem. Just because it's true doesn't mean it won't hurt people's feelings. Obviously Jim, and some, can't get past the "Buuuuut it's true!" part.

Speed
01-24-2011, 02:06 PM
Realistically, you're talking about JO'B failing to adjust to limit the scoring effectiveness of 3 fairly unstoppable scorers in the NBA. I'm guessing that there are 29 other Coaches that couldn't stop or limit their scoring IF they were in JO'Bs shoes with the Pacers roster.

I'll admit that JO'B is very slow to adjust and often puts himself in a position to not "throw every weapon as his disposal" to limit the other Team ( such as having McBob glued to the bench against the Clippers ), but there wasn't really anything that Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan or Gregg Popavish could have done IF they were coaching this Team while using the same roster to limit the scoring onslaught that we've witnessed with Griffin/Monta/Melo. We just aren't that good of a Team.

EDIT - take Melo out of my post....I didn't know that he was a streaky 3pt shooter and the Coaching Strategy was to simply let him take it. At least for Melo....after the 3rd or 4th 3pt shot made...I'd think that someone ( whether it be the Coach and/or the Players ) would not leave him wide open. But my comment still stands for Griffin and Monta....there was very little that the Team could do against those 2.

I see your point, but 47 from Blake Griffin is more than any other team has allowed him at this point and it was mainly on the strategy of letting him shoot wide open shots. Maybe those other coaches start to take that option away after he dropped 27 on them in the first half. I agree those guys can't be stopped, I'm just asking for adjustments to keep them from having one of their best games of the year, after your initial strategy looks like a complete failure.

CableKC
01-24-2011, 02:10 PM
I see your point, but 47 from Blake Griffin is more than any other team has allowed him at this point and it was mainly on the strategy of letting him shoot wide open shots. Maybe those other coaches start to take that option away after he dropped 27 on them in the first half. I agree those guys can't be stopped, I'm just asking for adjustments to keep them from having one of their best games of the year.
When it comes to Griffin, I'm not giving JO'B a full pass on that....cuz he had the option to play McBob...but didn't for whatever reason ( hence the "he didn't throw everything but the kitchen sink" comment that I had ). I hate that Griffin dropped a career and season high ( for the NBA ) on the Pacers....I'm just saying that Griffin has been on a super hot scoring streak in recent weeks. At most...even with McBob...we probably would have simply limited his overall effectiveness to 30+ points instead of 47 points ( pure speculation on my part though ).

Speed
01-24-2011, 02:11 PM
Managing players differently is a skill. I'd guess Phil Jacksons success is mostly because of this. Well and the fact he only coaches the most talented teams each year. :)

I agree, it's not whether its true or not, its whether how Obie managing it, is working. Even to the most biased person, you have to admit, it's at least not helping things.

Speed
01-24-2011, 02:26 PM
When it comes to Griffin, I'm not giving JO'B a full pass on that....cuz he had the option to play McBob...but didn't for whatever reason ( hence the "he didn't throw everything but the kitchen sink" comment that I had ). I hate that Griffin dropped a career and season high ( for the NBA ) on the Pacers....I'm just saying that Griffin has been on a super hot scoring streak in recent weeks. At most...even with McBob...we probably would have simply limited his overall effectiveness to 30+ points instead of 47 points ( pure speculation on my part though ).

I say, once he hit 3 or 4 open 17 footers, step out and guard him, whoever it is. Then hope for help as he drives.

I just disagree, I think its a strategy fail in this case, not a personnel one or not mostly a personnel one. Maybe Griffin still gets 47, but not because he didn't earn it, instead of being given warm up jumpers.

Really, its not even Griffin or Melo or whoever, its sticking with something you thought would work and it didn't, then not changing it.

I respect your opinion, I think we just disagree on this one.

McKeyFan
01-24-2011, 02:55 PM
Dick Harter is Jim's father-in-law, and he was an assistant to the team. It sounds like Dick Harder...

You made a joke about the female genetalia, which he responded with another Pacer reference about male genetalia.....
Because, well, a newspaper is black and white. Not red all over. But is read. R-E-A-D.

You know, a chicken has to walk to get to the other side of the road. So, it crossed the road, and that's why.

(Thanks anyway, Since. Although, the father in law is actually Jack Ramsey).

CableKC
01-24-2011, 02:57 PM
I say, once he hit 3 or 4 open 17 footers, step out and guard him, whoever it is. Then hope for help as he drives.

I just disagree, I think its a strategy fail in this case, not a personnel one or not mostly a personnel one. Maybe Griffin still gets 47, but not because he didn't earn it, instead of being given warm up jumpers.

Really, its not even Griffin or Melo or whoever, its sticking with something you thought would work and it didn't, then not changing it.

I respect your opinion, I think we just disagree on this one.
For the Griffin game....I think that it could have gone either way. I'll concede that JO'B should have tried to do more to focus defensive efforts on Griffin ( maybe double-triple team him would have helped )......but I really don't think that there was too much that could have been done.....Coaching and talent-wise...we just aren't that good.

As for the Monta game....I was at the game......that night....nothing short of taking out his kneecaps could have been done to stop him from scoring.

But I know, in the end...we'll agree to disagree. :buddies: