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View Full Version : Interesting quotes from DG and Foster....



Fab5Fan
01-23-2011, 12:18 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/71292/20110123/granger_blames_inexperience_for_inability_to_close _out_games/

Not sure how to bring articles in so I just copy and pasted link. But anyway I thought this was interesting, especially since the young guys very rarely if ever finish games.

SMosley21
01-23-2011, 12:42 PM
The Pacers held a 16-point lead over the Trail Blazers on Saturday night, but lost 97-92 at the Rose Garden.

On their current road trip, the Pacers have had double-digits leads in all three games but don't have a win to show for it.

"I just don't think we have the experience, honestly," Danny Granger said. "Closing out games, it's not something that just happens. You have to be in a lot of those situations and you have to learn how to do it."

Indiana has led in the fourth quarter or overtime in 11 of their 24 losses this season.

"I don't know if I can say I've been on a team like this, but it's a sign of an immature, young team that can't hold the lead," Jeff Foster said. "We can't execute under pressure. We have to figure out a way to improve on that in the last 40 or so games we have remaining."

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/71292/20110123/granger_blames_inexperience_for_inability_to_close _out_games/#ixzz1BshbKHl8



Could it be possible that Granger is actually lobbying for the young guys to close out games? Not quite sure what Foster is babbling about, considering we LOST the lead with the vets (Posey, Foster, Dunleavy) in the game in the 4th quarter.

imawhat
01-23-2011, 12:46 PM
They both need to take a long look in the mirror.

Shade
01-23-2011, 12:48 PM
Win those games, and we're 27-13 right now. Just to put things into perspective.

pwee31
01-23-2011, 12:49 PM
I'll be happy when we get a coach that uses Hansbrough to close out games. The kid was a monster in those situation at North Carolina b/c no one wants it more than him. Everyone didn't hate him b/c he was a choke artist. Last night he was a +13... and couldn't see the floor in crunch time?

I would like to see Paul George in late in games too. Kid just has a swagger/confidence about him

HOOPFANATIC
01-23-2011, 12:51 PM
Not sure Jeff and Danny are in agreement here. I hear Danny saying that the young guys haven't gotten the opportunity to learn how to close out games, while Jeff is saying it's the fault of the youth. I kind of disagree with Jeff because they were a young and far more immature team during the JO years. The difference is that Isaiah and Rick put it in their hands to sink or swim.

NuffSaid
01-23-2011, 01:02 PM
I don't think it was the veterans who cost them the game. It was JOB NOT making the adjustment at the right time when it mattered most.

The Blazers went with a taller lineup to start the 2nd-half AND they went to a 3-2 Zone defense. The only way to break a zone defense is dribble penetration and shot creation in isolation or off creating mismatches. The Pacers didn't do anything to counter both these moves.

They stayed with their small-ball lineup for most of the 2nd-half. That was a mistake!

Instead, what JOB should have done, IMO, was go with a traditional lineup that included length and quickness. Had he had access to Jmac, he could have gone to a front court that consisted of Jmac and Hans down the stretch. Unfortunately, Jmac was in street clothes. His other althernative should have been pulling Foster and BRush, and rotating Posey and Hans on the floor w/Granger, Dunleavy and Collison. I'd have placed Hans at Center and used Posey as a Stretch-Foward/3-pt specialist which he became eventually, but it was much too late. The Blazer had put up a 5-pt lead with mere seconds remaining to the game, but had JOB recognized what coach McMillan had done and countered his bigger, faster, 3-pt specialist, zone defense lineup sooner - as soon as the Pacers' lead was cut in half - the Pacers could have regrouped faster and won that game.

Foster wasn't fast enough to close out on Aldridge and BRush couldn't break through the Blazer's zone to be effective, nor could he cover or close out on Batum. But had JOB been able to rotate Hans, Jmac and George on the floor, they would have countered both of them.

The players who should have been in street clothes last night were Stephenson, TJ Ford and Solo. Everyone else should have been active and promptly utilized to the best of their collective abilities.

I blame this one on JOB...again.

xIndyFan
01-23-2011, 01:49 PM
pretty sure jeff and danny were talking about darren collison. the pacers have gone to the collison-foster + 3 shooters offense big time. collison took 18 shots and made 14 points. that is volume shooting. allen iverson results without allen iverson skills. darren had 7 assists but 5 turnovers. darren has been handed the keys to the car, but he needs to do a much better job of driving. and don't even get me started on his defense. darren spent most of the game playing follow the leader with his man on the defensive end. a starting PG needs to give more resistance than that.

the others would be tyler hansbrough. neither tyler [or roy for that matter] could defend aldridge at all. and tyler let przybilla offensive rebound with little resistance. tyler needs to defend his man, right now, guys just shoot over him. roy gets a little bit of a pass, because he was defending out of position. but on the nights that jeff foster has foul trouble, the pacers have zero interior defensive presence.

BringJackBack
01-23-2011, 01:52 PM
pretty sure jeff and danny were talking about darren collison. the pacers have gone to the collison-foster + 3 shooters offense big time. collison took 18 shots and made 14 points. that is volume shooting. allen iverson results without allen iverson skills. darren had 7 assists but 5 turnovers. darren has been handed the keys to the car, but he needs to do a much better job of driving. and don't even get me started on his defense. darren spent most of the game playing follow the leader with his man on the defensive end. a starting PG needs to give more resistance than that.

the others would be tyler hansbrough. neither tyler [or roy for that matter] could defend aldridge at all. and tyler let przybilla offensive rebound with little resistance. tyler needs to defend his man, right now, guys just shoot over him. roy gets a little bit of a pass, because he was defending out of position. but on the nights that jeff foster has foul trouble, the pacers have zero interior defensive presence.

I usually agree with almost everything you say, but I disagree with everything here.

Firstly, Darren has played ridiculously well since being handed the "keys".. And that has tremendously helped Danny's offense. Nate threw a curve-ball too and put Rudy on him and Rudy could shoot right over him.

Tyler defended Aldridge very well. A lot better than Foster did anyway.

xIndyFan
01-23-2011, 02:21 PM
that's interesting. that we would disagree completely on this. :confused: :laugh:

i really thought darren had a horrible game. he dominated the ball [like he is supposed to in the NO style offense], but made terrible decisions. bad shots. turnover after turnover. and horrible defense. not just on rudy, but on mills and matthews [i think]. his defense really regressed.

and hansbrough was horrible against aldridge. when they could, the pacers doubled to help tyler, but that was only early in the game. IIRC. after that, pacers seemed to try to avoid having tyler defend aldridge at all. tyler did have a nice +/- though. so he must have played better than i thought. idk?? :shrug:


I usually agree with almost everything you say, but I disagree with everything here.

Firstly, Darren has played ridiculously well since being handed the "keys".. And that has tremendously helped Danny's offense. Nate threw a curve-ball too and put Rudy on him and Rudy could shoot right over him.

Tyler defended Aldridge very well. A lot better than Foster did anyway.

BringJackBack
01-23-2011, 02:28 PM
Yeah this has to be the first time we have ever disagreed with eachother :laugh:

I do think that Darren turned the ball over a lot, but he was one of the only guys in attack mode yesterday. If he wasn't in attack mode, we'd be in a lot more trouble.

Tyler had a bad game offensively, and on team defense, but I just saw him on-ball defense and especially rebounding to be very good.

xIndyFan
01-23-2011, 02:34 PM
Yeah this has to be the first time we have ever disagreed with eachother :laugh:

I do think that Darren turned the ball over a lot, but he was one of the only guys in attack mode yesterday. If he wasn't in attack mode, we'd be in a lot more trouble.

Tyler had a bad game offensively, and on team defense, but I just saw him on-ball defense and especially rebounding to be very good.

i have a hard time telling if tyler has trouble with the team defense. don't always know who is supposed to rotate where. tyler has a tendency to wander on defense instead of making quick precise rotations.

i do love his rebounding and scoring. i think it gives him a chance to just play instead of think about what he is supposed to be doing. i try to be patient with tyler and paul about being where they are supposed to be. i know they are fist year players and still trying to remember everything and play basketball at the same time. it is hard. especially for bigs. but the sooner they get that figured out the better it will be for all of us. :laugh:

BringJackBack
01-23-2011, 02:37 PM
Another thing is I'd prefer Hansbrough to drive the ball, even though I think his mid range love has a lot to do with Jim.

xIndyFan
01-23-2011, 02:41 PM
Another thing is I'd prefer Hansbrough to drive the ball, even though I think his mid range love has a lot to do with Jim.

yeah, me too. he is short by PF stds, and gets lots of layups blocked. that might have something to do with his reluctance to go to the basket. he is such a good FT shooter, he needs to draw more fouls somehow.

Trophy
01-23-2011, 03:21 PM
I'd rather have Tyler in crunch time than Posey.

I think this team has just lost confidence.

croz24
01-23-2011, 03:32 PM
all i ever hear from granger is excuses and zero accountability

BlueNGold
01-23-2011, 03:53 PM
all i ever hear from granger is excuses and zero accountability

I agree totally. Granger and Foster need consider the age and experience of the guys beating them:

Mathews - 24 years old, 2nd year in NBA, 19 points
Aldridge - 25.5 years old, 5th year in NBA, 25 points
Batum 22, 3rd year in NBA, 23 points

Then consider their own experience...and those getting minutes:

Granger - 27 years old, 6th year in NBA, 24 points
Foster - 34 years old as of last week, 100th year in NBA, 6 points
Dunleavy - 30 years old, 11th year in NBA, 14 points

As for our "young guys" getting minutes...they're not that young:

Rush - 25.5 years old (same age as Aldridge), 3rd year in NBA, 0 points
Hibbert - 24 years old, 3rd year in NBA, 11 points
Collison - 23 years old (ok, maybe he's a little young), 2nd year in NBA, 14 points
Hansborough - 25 years old, 2nd year in NBA, 6 points

So, our young guys are actually slightly older on average and other than Aldridge have slightly more experience in the NBA. Foster and Granger should be enough "experience" to counter the 25 year old Aldridge's "vast" experience...

This is a matter of coaching and/or talent level...not experience.

BlueNGold
01-23-2011, 03:58 PM
Foster absolutely NAILED IT. The team cannot execute under pressure.

But it's not experience. This same group could run this offense for three more years and not "get it".

I'll let someone else figure out if this is a talent deficit, poor strategy for available personnel...or a combination of both.

Four years should be enough time to "get it".

Bball
01-23-2011, 04:35 PM
The offense is a Chinese fire drill. Is it any wonder at crunch time it looks totally out of sync?

ilive4sports
01-23-2011, 04:49 PM
The offense is a Chinese fire drill. Is it any wonder at crunch time it looks totally out of sync?

This.

Until we run a decent offense that isn't stand and watch Danny/Collison, I will not criticize the players for late collapses. The entire second half, thats what our offense was. And when Danny scored 7 points in a row, he got taken out of the game... What the hell do you expect to happen?

O'Braindead
01-23-2011, 05:26 PM
I'm going to say it now; Leadership comes from the top. All smart and wise coaches and players know that to be true. Do you want a firsthand example? Lookie here after he got done playing for Team USA with actual leaders like Mike D'Antoni, Mike Krzyzewski, and Chauncey Billups:


"Playing with guys like Chauncey Billups, who's done so much in the NBA -- you're just watching him and some of the things he does and the way he handles himself, the way he talks to other players," he said. "Everybody really had to take something from that."

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/09/28/pacers-granger.ap/index.html

Leadership comes from the top, meaning Jim O'Brien. Currently he doesn't have Jim to show him leadership, because it comes from the top. Kobe Bryant wasn't a leader until Phil Jackson came back, Chauncey Billups wasn't a leader until he came to Detroit, and Lebron James isn't a leader because he's had Mike Brown and Eric Spoelstra as coaches and he's also always had people stroking his ego. Danny Granger is not going to be a leader until 1.) He gets help, and 2.) until we get a coach that doesn't contradict himself and leads others while pushing everyone.


all i ever hear from granger is excuses and zero accountability

Danny Granger should never be expected to close out games in franchise-level player fashion.. If we had another player that could effectively create for himself that would help out tremendously. We could also use Danny coming off of screens, or using penetration like Darren Collison did at the Golden State game when he kicked out to Danny for three. Danny has never had to has self accountability because he's always been allowed to do as he wishes and he's always had the green light. But that's even off the point because is the following quote from Danny an excuse?


"I just don't think we have the experience, honestly," Danny Granger said. "Closing out games, it's not something that just happens. You have to be in a lot of those situations and you have to learn how to do it."

That actually sounds more like leadership than excuses. :confused:


This.

Until we run a decent offense that isn't stand and watch Danny/Collison, I will not criticize the players for late collapses. The entire second half, thats what our offense was. And when Danny scored 7 points in a row, he got taken out of the game... What the hell do you expect to happen?

Agreed with you.

Leadership comes from the top. Until common sense and principles of winning basketball are brought into place we will always suffer from losing. Hopefully in 80 days or so we will not have to worry about Jim anymore.

I don't understand why we have to move Danny. He's our best player and I understand that we shouldn't build around him, but we need to get players that compliment eachother and Danny's great strengths is his versatility. He can be a jumpshooter/defender, off the dribble scorer, a player who runs off of screens, a stretch four, and he can play three positions. He's the ideal guy to keep around, not the ideal guy to trade.

Get him a shooting guard, a power forward, and a smart coach and he will look like a better player and most importantly a better leader. Take a look at Paul Pierce. I'm going to go with Sookie and say that we shouldn't do much until Jim is out.

"As a leader, you will recieve a large amount of praise and criticism and you should not unduly effected by either." - Wooden

Sookie
01-23-2011, 05:33 PM
Yeah this has to be the first time we have ever disagreed with eachother :laugh:

I do think that Darren turned the ball over a lot, but he was one of the only guys in attack mode yesterday. If he wasn't in attack mode, we'd be in a lot more trouble.

Tyler had a bad game offensively, and on team defense, but I just saw him on-ball defense and especially rebounding to be very good.

Darren had a bad second half. But personally, I thought part of the reason he had a bad game was because he was trying to do too much.

And Obie, instead of subbing him out, letting him relax, explaining to him he needed to calm down. Just let it continue. Darren got a three minute break the entire second half.

Jeez, Phil Jackson will take Kobe Bryant out if Kobe starts straying from what he needs to do. Pop takes out Ginobili...but JOB won't help out his second year point guard, who was struggling quite a bit. Right, as O'Braindead has pointed out..not the best leadership.

(there's really so much to criticise about O'brien it's unbelievable.)

Which is why I say..let them come together under a good (or heck decent) coach, to see what we've got. People have gone on a "we aren't that talanted" kick lately. Well truth is, the last two games we've had double digit leads..that shows poor strategy, not lack of talent.

ilive4sports
01-23-2011, 05:45 PM
I'm going to say it now; Leadership comes from the top. All smart and wise coaches and players know that to be true. Do you want a firsthand example? Lookie here after he got done playing for Team USA with actual leaders like Mike D'Antoni, Mike Krzyzewski, and Chauncey Billups:



http://www.nba.com/2010/news/09/28/pacers-granger.ap/index.html

Leadership comes from the top, meaning Jim O'Brien. Currently he doesn't have Jim to show him leadership, because it comes from the top. Kobe Bryant wasn't a leader until Phil Jackson came back, Chauncey Billups wasn't a leader until he came to Detroit, and Lebron James isn't a leader because he's had Mike Brown and Eric Spoelstra as coaches and he's also always had people stroking his ego. Danny Granger is not going to be a leader until 1.) He gets help, and 2.) until we get a coach that doesn't contradict himself and leads others while pushing everyone.



Danny Granger should never be expected to close out games in franchise-level player fashion.. If we had another player that could effectively create for himself that would help out tremendously. We could also use Danny coming off of screens, or using penetration like Darren Collison did at the Golden State game when he kicked out to Danny for three. Danny has never had to has self accountability because he's always been allowed to do as he wishes and he's always had the green light. But that's even off the point because is the following quote from Danny an excuse?



That actually sounds more like leadership than excuses. :confused:



Agreed with you.

Leadership comes from the top. Until common sense and principles of winning basketball are brought into place we will always suffer from losing. Hopefully in 80 days or so we will not have to worry about Jim anymore.

I don't understand why we have to move Danny. He's our best player and I understand that we shouldn't build around him, but we need to get players that compliment eachother and Danny's great strengths is his versatility. He can be a jumpshooter/defender, off the dribble scorer, a player who runs off of screens, a stretch four, and he can play three positions. He's the ideal guy to keep around, not the ideal guy to trade.

Get him a shooting guard, a power forward, and a smart coach and he will look like a better player and most importantly a better leader. Take a look at Paul Pierce. I'm going to go with Sookie and say that we shouldn't do much until Jim is out.

"As a leader, you will recieve a large amount of praise and criticism and you should not unduly effected by either." - Wooden


There isn't a single word I disagree with you in this post. It is exactly how I feel about this team and about Danny. I don't think its fair criticism of any of our players while JOB is the coach of this team. We all acknowledge that Danny isn't in the elite class of players in this league. Not many are. Yet so many here expect him to be the elite. And our opponents play him like he is an elite player because he is our best player and really the only guy on the team you have to worry about. Defenses collapse around Danny and our team does nothing to help him. Part of this falls on our players, part of it is Danny needing to take care of the ball better, but a lot of it is on our offense and how it misuses Danny and the rest of the team.

BringJackBack
01-23-2011, 05:46 PM
People have gone on a "we aren't that talanted" kick lately. Well truth is, the last two games we've had double digit leads..that shows poor strategy, not lack of talent.

Thank you.. You really should start a thread or something because quite frankly it is getting upsetting to hear that because it is not true.

We went from Watson and Ford to Collison and Price

We went from dopehead Rush to Mike, a clean Rush, and Paul George (Paul is the best of the three)

We went from an injured Danny to Danny

We went from Troy Murphy to Tyler and Josh.. Look at Troy's stats this year if you want to see how good he is.

We went from an out of shape Roy and Solo to a healthy Roy and Foster.

It is pretty annoying to use the cop-out of "We're just not that good."

BringJackBack
01-23-2011, 05:47 PM
I'm going to say it now; Leadership comes from the top. All smart and wise coaches and players know that to be true. Do you want a firsthand example? Lookie here after he got done playing for Team USA with actual leaders like Mike D'Antoni, Mike Krzyzewski, and Chauncey Billups:



http://www.nba.com/2010/news/09/28/pacers-granger.ap/index.html

Leadership comes from the top, meaning Jim O'Brien. Currently he doesn't have Jim to show him leadership, because it comes from the top. Kobe Bryant wasn't a leader until Phil Jackson came back, Chauncey Billups wasn't a leader until he came to Detroit, and Lebron James isn't a leader because he's had Mike Brown and Eric Spoelstra as coaches and he's also always had people stroking his ego. Danny Granger is not going to be a leader until 1.) He gets help, and 2.) until we get a coach that doesn't contradict himself and leads others while pushing everyone.



Danny Granger should never be expected to close out games in franchise-level player fashion.. If we had another player that could effectively create for himself that would help out tremendously. We could also use Danny coming off of screens, or using penetration like Darren Collison did at the Golden State game when he kicked out to Danny for three. Danny has never had to has self accountability because he's always been allowed to do as he wishes and he's always had the green light. But that's even off the point because is the following quote from Danny an excuse?



That actually sounds more like leadership than excuses. :confused:



Agreed with you.

Leadership comes from the top. Until common sense and principles of winning basketball are brought into place we will always suffer from losing. Hopefully in 80 days or so we will not have to worry about Jim anymore.

I don't understand why we have to move Danny. He's our best player and I understand that we shouldn't build around him, but we need to get players that compliment eachother and Danny's great strengths is his versatility. He can be a jumpshooter/defender, off the dribble scorer, a player who runs off of screens, a stretch four, and he can play three positions. He's the ideal guy to keep around, not the ideal guy to trade.

Get him a shooting guard, a power forward, and a smart coach and he will look like a better player and most importantly a better leader. Take a look at Paul Pierce. I'm going to go with Sookie and say that we shouldn't do much until Jim is out.

"As a leader, you will recieve a large amount of praise and criticism and you should not unduly effected by either." - Wooden

I really agree, but if a ridiculous offer comes up than it'd be silly to pass up.

I do think, however, that Danny would be better if we got him some help so that other teams can stop playing him like he's Lebron James.

Bball
01-23-2011, 05:53 PM
All of our players could use some help.... help from the bench with a coach that can actually maximize his players...

xIndyFan
01-23-2011, 05:57 PM
:offtopic: pacer were 14-27 at the halfway point last season.