PDA

View Full Version : Brandon Rush.. seriously?



pwee31
01-23-2011, 01:11 PM
I seem to overlook this thanks to Jim O'Brien being the only story right now, but did Brandon Rush really play 24 minutes last night with a stat line of: 1reb 1ast 1stl

Paul George got 7 minutes.. 7 and stat line was: 7pts 3reb

Brandon's defense has dropped as well? Is there anyway to light a permanent fire under this guy's a$$?

We need to play Paul George to find out if we have a SG or not, but Rush is not the answer.

vnzla81
01-23-2011, 01:53 PM
I know that Rush haven't been that good in few games, but how you expect an inconsistent player to be consistent if your coach is inconsistent?

pwee31
01-23-2011, 01:56 PM
Well unlike some of the others, Brandon Rush gets consistent minutes, so I'm not blaming O'Brien for this one.

All the other young guys try to make the most out of there minutes.. Rush.. I don't know

colts19
01-23-2011, 01:57 PM
Rush has to take more than 2 shots. He and Posey played a combined 41 mins and did almost nothing at all. Play PG those mins and see what he puts up. Hell he did more in 7 mins than they did in 41.

vnzla81
01-23-2011, 02:02 PM
Well unlike some of the others, Brandon Rush gets consistent minutes, so I'm not blaming O'Brien for this one.

All the other young guys try to make the most out of there minutes.. Rush.. I don't know

I'm talking about starting, this is really underrated, people don't understand that players need a rythm, there is a reason why some players don't want to come of the bench.

bulldog
01-23-2011, 02:04 PM
You know who really sucks - John Hollinger. He said BRush had a tendency to wander aimlessly, and at one point was the worst starter in the league, but what does he know? He doesn't even watch basketball games!

Oops:



Final thoughts: 1) Can't believe Collison didn't pressure Rudy more, 2) Classic wander-aimlessly game from Rush -- 24 min, 0 pt, 1 rb, 1 ast


Anyway, not saying I 100% agree with Hollinger, and BRush has certainly improved since Hollinger's infamous "worst starter" comment, but I think people need to have some perspective and think about how our team looks to outsiders. Not that good.

pwee31
01-23-2011, 02:17 PM
I'm talking about starting, this is really underrated, people don't understand that players need a rythm, there is a reason why some players don't want to come of the bench.

He's not a starter, and even when Dunleavy comes off the bench, he attempts to make an impact.

Rush seems content to just be in the NBA. He hardly even plays or shows any emotion ever? I can't tell if he even cares if we win or lose?

I mean if you follow on Twitter, you see guys like Hibbert, Collison, Paul George tweeting that they're upset about a loss, have to improve, need to get the next one. Brandon Rush is tweeting about mixtapes, shoes, being bored.

Yeah others do this as well, but at least you can tell they care in between. I mean you get quotes from Granger, Dunleavy, Foster, Hansbrough about the same, and Rush just sits in the background, which in turns translates to the court

speakout4
01-23-2011, 02:21 PM
I'm talking about starting, this is really underrated, people don't understand that players need a rythm, there is a reason why some players don't want to come of the bench.

You can't be serious?
He just doesn't always show up and give the impression he wants to play and yet you want to blame JOB?

BringJackBack
01-23-2011, 02:25 PM
I agree. In the month of January he has averaged 8.6 ppg on 36% shooting. Pretty bad, and he's lost a step defensively since last month. I'll reiterate; I am so hard on him because I know how good he can potentially be. I am seriously getting somewhat worried about his personal hygiene, if you understand what I mean. He's transformed from a nice 6th man to the Brandon Rush of old ever since the last game of December.

Sorry if that is politically incorrect or whatever for being concerned.




I mean if you follow on Twitter, you see guys like Hibbert, Collison, Paul George tweeting that they're upset about a loss, have to improve, need to get the next one. Brandon Rush is tweeting about mixtapes, shoes, being bored.

Yeah others do this as well, but at least you can tell they care in between. I mean you get quotes from Granger, Dunleavy, Foster, Hansbrough about the same, and Rush just sits in the background, which in turns translates to the court

Now, I'm just going to have to point something out here.. When I played ball I would have a huge game, but I would never brag about it.. Rush is like that, I can tell. He doesn't like to show out and he doesn't like to give himself a load of credit, he finds it petty and goofy.

Maybe you're right that he should be more interested, but this is just the way Rush is.

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 02:32 PM
You know who really sucks - John Hollinger. He said BRush had a tendency to wander aimlessly, and at one point was the worst starter in the league, but what does he know? He doesn't even watch basketball games!

Oops:



Anyway, not saying I 100% agree with Hollinger, and BRush has certainly improved since Hollinger's infamous "worst starter" comment, but I think people need to have some perspective and think about how our team looks to outsiders. Not that good.

Hollinger wanted Paul George to play more last night instead of Posey it was in the pacers media chat on pacers.com

SMosley21
01-23-2011, 02:34 PM
Saying that he is floating around aimlessly because he isn't starting is just ignorant, considering he did the exact same thing last season when he started 64 games.

vnzla81
01-23-2011, 02:35 PM
He's not a starter, and even when Dunleavy comes off the bench, he attempts to make an impact.

Rush seems content to just be in the NBA. He hardly even plays or shows any emotion ever? I can't tell if he even cares if we win or lose?

I mean if you follow on Twitter, you see guys like Hibbert, Collison, Paul George tweeting that they're upset about a loss, have to improve, need to get the next one. Brandon Rush is tweeting about mixtapes, shoes, being bored.

Yeah others do this as well, but at least you can tell they care in between. I mean you get quotes from Granger, Dunleavy, Foster, Hansbrough about the same, and Rush just sits in the background, which in turns translates to the court


Is funny that most of the things you are saying to describe Rush are pretty much the same things I can use to describe Mike, there is a reason why somebody took their time to make the MANLEAVY video, the only time I got to see any reaction or emotion from him was when he got the tip in on the NO game.

By the way I don't know if you know this but Dunleavy is been horrible lately too(he was ok yesterday) I would say that I agree with you on PG, he needs more playing time and he was the best SG yesterday, the problem is that the clown has a short leach on him and PG miss assignment on Batum made his benching easier.

pwee31
01-23-2011, 02:35 PM
Now, I'm just going to have to point something out here.. When I played ball I would have a huge game, but I would never brag about it.. Rush is like that, I can tell. He doesn't like to show out and he doesn't like to give himself a load of credit, he finds it petty and goofy.

Maybe you're right that he should be more interested, but this is just the way Rush is.

I'm in no way talking about bragging b/c of a good game, I'm starting about showing emotion or fight when your team is struggling. You're suppose to be apart of the core moving forward with this franchise and you don't seem to care.

Did anyone see Hansbrough's reaction when he got taken out in the 3rd quarter I believe, quickly after coming in? He was not happy, he wants to be on the floor, and should be on the floor. He wants to win, he hates to lose.

Granger gets frustrated and starts jacking up shots no b/c he doesn't care, it's b/c he doesn't like to lose and tries to put it on himself.

Hibbert is thinking of getting mental help b/c he's not playing well, and he feels he's letting the team down b/c he doesn't like to lose.

Collison doesn't like to lose, Foster is tired of losing, Dunleavy is tired of losing. Paul George is just a rookie and he's tired of losing. I don't get that sense from Rush, I wish I did, but I don't.

dohman
01-23-2011, 02:37 PM
Brandon rush is a joke. The guy has the athletic ability and shooting touch to be a star. But has no confidence in his game. he does not look to create. he does not look to shoot. You have to pray for him to shoot a three even when he is wide open.

Its almost laughable that the guy is so good yet SO BAD. I personally want him off the team in the offseason. Start PG next year and resign DUN to a smaller contract to be the backup for him and granger.

He has not made any progress on his game and just plays scared on the offensive end.

I know you guys are going to say well he is the best defensive player we have. What good is defense when our team struggles to put up 90 points. We cannot rely on two guys to get it done for us. Brandon was brought in here to be a difference maker and right now he is being outplayed by our new rookie.

pwee31
01-23-2011, 02:38 PM
Is funny that most of the things you are saying to describe Rush are pretty much the same things I can use to describe Mike, there is a reason why somebody took their time to make the MANLEAVY video, the only time I got to see any reaction or emotion from him was when he got the tip in on the NO game.

By the way I don't know if you know this but Dunleavy is been horrible lately too(he was ok yesterday) I would say that I agree with you on PG, he needs more playing time and he was the best SG yesterday, the problem is that the clown has a short leach on him and PG miss assignment on Batum made his benching easier.

I agree Dunleavy has been terrible as well, and I'm a fan of him, but I can tolerate Dunleavy being bad b/c he'll likely be traded or gone next season anyways. Rush is suppose to be one of the core guys going forward, and those he has play better early, he still seems to be the same inconsistent guy.

BringJackBack
01-23-2011, 02:40 PM
I'm in no way talking about bragging b/c of a good game, I'm starting about showing emotion or fight when your team is struggling. You're suppose to be apart of the core moving forward with this franchise and you don't seem to care.

Did anyone see Hansbrough's reaction when he got taken out in the 3rd quarter I believe, quickly after coming in? He was not happy, he wants to be on the floor, and should be on the floor. He wants to win, he hates to lose.

Granger gets frustrated and starts jacking up shots no b/c he doesn't care, it's b/c he doesn't like to lose and tries to put it on himself.

Hibbert is thinking of getting mental help b/c he's not playing well, and he feels he's letting the team down b/c he doesn't like to lose.

Collison doesn't like to lose, Foster is tired of losing, Dunleavy is tired of losing. Paul George is just a rookie and he's tired of losing. I don't get that sense from Rush, I wish I did, but I don't.

Yeah, there's nothing I can disagree with there.

The funny thing is that I went to a game and saw him drain like twenty threes in a row without flaw coming off of a dribble and a jump-stop, and ever since then I've held a high opinion of his basketball ability, but to hope for him to actually make something of it (15 ppg scorer or something) is wishful thinking because he just doesn't have the drive of a professional, I suppose.

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 02:42 PM
Brandon rush is a joke. The guy has the athletic ability and shooting touch to be a star. But has no confidence in his game. he does not look to create. he does not look to shoot. You have to pray for him to shoot a three even when he is wide open.

Its almost laughable that the guy is so good yet SO BAD. I personally want him off the team in the offseason. Start PG next year and resign DUN to a smaller contract to be the backup for him and granger.

He has not made any progress on his game and just plays scared on the offensive end.

I know you guys are going to say well he is the best defensive player we have. What good is defense when our team struggles to put up 90 points. We cannot rely on two guys to get it done for us. Brandon was brought in here to be a difference maker and right now he is being outplayed by our new rookie.

I would rather have a Marcus Thornton/ Shannon Brown type next yr than bringing back Manleavy. A young guy who is pretty good

dohman
01-23-2011, 02:48 PM
I would rather have a Marcus Thornton/ Shannon Brown type next yr than bringing back Manleavy. A young guy who is pretty good

Actually.. scrap dun as well and let D.Jones play. He cant be any worse.

vnzla81
01-23-2011, 02:48 PM
I'm going to say the same thing I said when people were going crazy about Hibbert and Danny, let's just wait until we get a real coach to evaluate our players, almost every single player has been sucking lately reason why I wouldn't go crazy about this situation.

Shade
01-23-2011, 02:53 PM
If there is a polar opposite to Reggie Miller, it's Brandon Rush.

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 02:53 PM
Actually.. scrap dun as well and let D.Jones play. He cant be any worse.

I was just about to say that why not just play Dahatay 10-15 mins next year in a backup role..

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 02:56 PM
If there is a polar opposite to Reggie Miller, it's Brandon Rush.

Some people are like Brandon who act like they dont care but they really do. Jay Cutler and Brandon have the same type of body language during a game but Jay cares a lot. When he is mic ed up u can really tell he wants to win he just doesnt show a lot of emotion.

Pacergeek
01-23-2011, 02:57 PM
we do need to upgrade the SG position going forward. There is a reason that Rush was being shopped last season. Maybe George is the answer? I find it humorous that posters have said in the past that we are set at the wing position. Nobody fears Rush/Dunleavy.

speakout4
01-23-2011, 03:03 PM
I'm going to say the same thing I said when people were going crazy about Hibbert and Danny, let's just wait until we get a real coach to evaluate our players, almost every single player has been sucking lately reason why I wouldn't go crazy about this situation.
Then don't criticize any player-Dun included. Just say "wait until we get a real coach".

xBulletproof
01-23-2011, 03:08 PM
I'm talking about starting, this is really underrated, people don't understand that players need a rythm, there is a reason why some players don't want to come of the bench.

I'll be sure to show this quote to you the next time you complain about Dunleavy, too.

Sookie
01-23-2011, 03:10 PM
players need consistency. But Brandon Rush has had more consistency from JOB than any other young player.

I don't think the system is good for JOB, and I do think Brandon needs consistency, a lot of it, more than any other player. But I also think that at least half the blame goes to Brandon. I mean come on now, if Paul George can play the way he has, after the jerking around he's been through..than there's no excuse for Brandon.

Hicks
01-23-2011, 03:11 PM
Anyone else wish Charlotte's owner didn't kill our trade from last February?

Actually, wait, maybe not. If we had, we'd have DJ Augustine, and we probably then don't trade for Darren Collison.

So let me just say: I wish I could swap Rush with Henderson.

xIndyFan
01-23-2011, 03:11 PM
thought brandon rush wasn't good. and that paul george was. if i had my way about things, paul george would either start or be the first wing off the bench. he has played well enough to get the time. and brandon has not played very well.

Sookie
01-23-2011, 03:12 PM
Anyone else wish Charlotte's owner didn't kill our trade from last February?

We probably wouldn't have Collison though, because we would have had Agustus..I'd rather have Darren (despite the fact that Agustus hasn't been bad this year)

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 03:14 PM
Anyone else wish Charlotte's owner didn't kill our trade from last February?

Actually, wait, maybe not. If we had, we'd have DJ Augustine, and we probably then don't trade for Darren Collison.

So let me just say: I wish I could swap Rush with Henderson.

why Rush puts up way better numbers than Henderson and plays better defensive

croz24
01-23-2011, 03:18 PM
should have dealt brandon we he had more value. he is what he is: a mediocre role player.

pwee31
01-23-2011, 03:18 PM
Some people are like Brandon who act like they dont care but they really do. Jay Cutler and Brandon have the same type of body language during a game but Jay cares a lot. When he is mic ed up u can really tell he wants to win he just doesnt show a lot of emotion.

I don't think we know the same Jay Cutler. Cutler plays with a lot of emotion and fire. He has that swagger

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 03:19 PM
I don't think we know the same Jay Cutler. Cutler plays with a lot of emotion and fire. He has that swagger

Not when he throws a pick

vnzla81
01-23-2011, 03:19 PM
I'll be sure to show this quote to you the next time you complain about Dunleavy, too.

I haven't complain about Dun in a long time and I also said that he was the best player in december(maybe you didn't notice it because you had me ignored) but this month everybody but maybe Darren(until yesterday) have been sucking a$$.

vnzla81
01-23-2011, 03:20 PM
Then don't criticize any player-Dun included. Just say "wait until we get a real coach".

I will critize the players that are not going to be here when we get a new coach and are playing for no reason.

CooperManning
01-23-2011, 03:20 PM
Cutler has terrible body language, which stems from him caring. Brandon shows little emotion ever. I wouldn't compare the two.

BobbyMac
01-23-2011, 03:20 PM
You know who really sucks - John Hollinger. He said BRush had a tendency to wander aimlessly, and at one point was the worst starter in the league, but what does he know? He doesn't even watch basketball games!

He must watch the Pacers. Brandon can be a good player at times, other times he just wanders around with out any purpose. We need to trade him. At this point I think that George should be the starter and that Dunleavy should be the 6th man. Rush should be getting few minutes. Perhaps that would motivate him....better yet package Rush and Ford for a first round draft pick.

pwee31
01-23-2011, 03:22 PM
Not when he throws a pick

Well you don't want to get over emotional when you turn the ball over. I'm not asking Rush to get upset every time he has a turnover, but if you losing games, care. If you're playing badly show a little frustration, if you're playing well, show a little confidence

pwee31
01-23-2011, 03:24 PM
I haven't complain about Dun in a long time and I also said that he was the best player in december(maybe you didn't notice it because you had me ignored) but this month everybody but maybe Darren(until yesterday) have been sucking a$$.

I think Granger has played really well the last 3 games, nothing to show for it though

xBulletproof
01-23-2011, 03:24 PM
I haven't complain about Dun in a long time and I also said that he was the best player in december(maybe you didn't notice it because you had me ignored) but this month everybody but maybe Darren(until yesterday) have been sucking a$$.

You're correct, I probably missed that. My fault then. Agreed that most everyone except Darren has struggled lately. The other exception off the top of my head is Paul George. Who should be getting rewarded with playing time.

ilive4sports
01-23-2011, 03:25 PM
Now let's not act like Brandon Rush is the only one wandering around on the court. Last night in the second half pretty much everyone was doing the same thing.

SMosley21
01-23-2011, 03:27 PM
Be clear, Gerald Henderson would NOT be an upgrade over Rush.

vnzla81
01-23-2011, 03:27 PM
I think Granger has played really well the last 3 games, nothing to show for it though

I agree, other than sucking at the end of the 4th quarters he is been doing ok lately.

pwee31
01-23-2011, 03:30 PM
Anyone else wish Charlotte's owner didn't kill our trade from last February?

Actually, wait, maybe not. If we had, we'd have DJ Augustine, and we probably then don't trade for Darren Collison.

So let me just say: I wish I could swap Rush with Henderson.

You know, it's hard to tell when it comes to Collison. It really depends on how Augustin would have played. It would have been nice b/c that also would have meant no T.J Ford either.

I would prefer Collison over Augustin and Augustin has played really well under Silas.

I don't know how I feel about Henderson, but I would be really to give him a shot based off of what I know I'm getting from Rush

speakout4
01-23-2011, 03:31 PM
I will critize the players that are not going to be here when we get a new coach and are playing for no reason.
HUH? So you are criticizing players purely on the basis of whether they will be here next season with a new coach and not whether they are playing well or not?

Don't be so sure dun won't return or foster won't either. We have a very young team as is.

SMosley21
01-23-2011, 03:38 PM
Collison's stats vs. Augustin's stats

Collison - 14 points, 4.7 assists, 2.2 turnovers, 1.1 steals, 3 rebounds
Augustin - 14.7 points, 6.3 assists, 1.6 turnovers, 0.7 steals, 2.9 rebounds

vnzla81
01-23-2011, 03:40 PM
HUH? So you are criticizing players purely on the basis of whether they will be here next season with a new coach and not whether they are playing well or not?

Don't be so sure dun won't return or foster won't either. We have a very young team as is.

That is not what I'm saying, what I'm trying to say is that I am willing to give a longer leach to the young players and a shorter leach to the old veterans(opposite of what JOB does).

Hicks
01-23-2011, 03:50 PM
why Rush puts up way better numbers than Henderson and plays better defensive

Yeah, but consider a lot of that is because he was in Larry Brown's dog house until recently. Check out some of his more recent games.

He's much more aggressive than Brandon Rush.

spazzxb
01-23-2011, 03:52 PM
I'm talking about starting, this is really underrated, people don't understand that players need a rythm, there is a reason why some players don't want to come of the bench.

and that reason is ego.

Justin Tyme
01-23-2011, 04:02 PM
I refer to Rush as Mr. Inconsistancy. A name well earned by him. I couldn't believe the drive to the basket by Rush, I believe it was the GS game. It was a move of poetry in motion. I thought it should be on national highlite it was so great. My 1st thought was he's finally got it! Then he does basically nothing the rest of the game. If you didn't know he was in the game last nite, you wouldn't know he was in the game. I said from the day Bird drafted George that George was drafted as Rush's replacement, and I still feel that way. It wouldn't bother me to see Rush traded. He contributes very little anymore to this team. He use to be able to hang his hat on his "D", but he can't even do that anymore. Unless he reaches down and grabs his boot straps and pulls himself up soon, I see no reason to keep him.

xIndyFan
01-23-2011, 04:06 PM
don't have a game tape or dvr of the game. but i wonder how much of brandon's lack of activity was darren [or AJ] not getting him the ball. one of the problems with the NO-style offense is the PG has the ball all the time. if the PG doesn't get the ball to you, you can spend the whole game picking your nose out by the 3 point line. :laugh:

Bball
01-23-2011, 04:08 PM
Brandon Rush is probably done with Jim O'Brien.... It's hard to judge a player who has quit on the coach, or is so thoroughly confused by his contradictions that he can no longer comfortably play the game. You could argue any player that would quit on the coach is a player you don't want on your team.... but Capt Contradiction is a special situation when it comes to coaches. He's a whole different level of bad.

I wouldn't blame the whole team for all coming down with the flu at the same time and refusing to get better until O'Brien was replaced.

SMosley21
01-23-2011, 04:13 PM
Yeah, but consider a lot of that is because he was in Larry Brown's dog house until recently. Check out some of his more recent games.

He's much more aggressive than Brandon Rush.


His numbers don't show that his aggressiveness is getting things done. He has had 2 games of double digit points (19 points in 40 minutes back on Jan. 8th, and 11 points in 18 minutes on the 20th) in the month of January. He also doesn't rebound very well to be such an "aggressive" player.

Here are Henderson's stats from January, since Silas took over...

11 games
22 minutes
7.2 points (43% FG, 0% 3PT, 70% FT)
2.6 rebounds
0.6 steals
0.4 blocks

and he only averages 1.6 FT attempts per game. Not a trait of a very aggressive player. In comparison, Rush averaged...

9 games
29 minutes
8.6 points (36% FG, 31% 3PT, 81% FT)
3.4 rebounds
0.6 steals
0.3 blocks
1.8 FTA per game

And that was Rush at his worst. Not saying Rush is aggressive by any means because he isn't. But let's not pretend that Henderson is.

Trophy
01-23-2011, 04:15 PM
I thought Brandon was actually going to be a consistent player this year.

Guess I was wrong.

Paul have his time to shine with this team once a new coach comes in.

AesopRockOn
01-23-2011, 04:19 PM
But if he's consistently inconsistent, does that make him consistent again? And if he begins to be consistent, do we complain about his inconsistency?

Push for full effect. (http://inception.davepedu.com/)

vnzla81
01-23-2011, 04:23 PM
Brandon Rush is probably done with Jim O'Brien.... It's hard to judge a player who has quit on the coach, or is so thoroughly confused by his contradictions that he can no longer comfortably play the game. You could argue any player that would quit on the coach is a player you don't want on your team.... but Capt Contradiction is a special situation when it comes to coaches. He's a whole different level of bad.

I wouldn't blame the whole team for all coming down with the flu at the same time and refusing to get better until O'Brien was replaced.

I was thinking the same thing, I just didn't want to use it as an excuse but there is maybe something there were every player on the team is playing bad.

d_c
01-23-2011, 04:24 PM
The criticisms Pacers fans have of Rush are pretty similar to the type of criticism Kansas fans had of him when he was in college: Inconsistent, doesn't take the ball to the basket enough for a player with his athleticism, passive, often disappears.......that all sounds familiar.

And generally speaking, 23 year old draft picks who were 4 year college players and played the wing position pretty much are what they are.

speakout4
01-23-2011, 04:31 PM
Brandon Rush is probably done with Jim O'Brien.... It's hard to judge a player who has quit on the coach, or is so thoroughly confused by his contradictions that he can no longer comfortably play the game. You could argue any player that would quit on the coach is a player you don't want on your team.... but Capt Contradiction is a special situation when it comes to coaches. He's a whole different level of bad.

I wouldn't blame the whole team for all coming down with the flu at the same time and refusing to get better until O'Brien was replaced.
It's called professionalism. You don't quit because you don't like your coach. You don't quit because you don't like your boss, commanding officer, or anyone else. You do your job because others are depending on you to do just that.
I'm sure Wooden would agree with my position.

speakout4
01-23-2011, 04:37 PM
The criticisms Pacers fans have of Rush are pretty similar to the type of criticism Kansas fans had of him when he was in college: Inconsistent, doesn't take the ball to the basket enough for a player with his athleticism, passive, often disappears.......that all sounds familiar.

And generally speaking, 23 year old draft picks who were 4 year college players and played the wing position pretty much are what they are.
We need to trade him asap.

Bball
01-23-2011, 04:39 PM
It's called professionalism. You don't quit because you don't like your coach. You don't quit because you don't like your boss, commanding officer, or anyone else. You do your job because others are depending on you to do just that.
I'm sure Wooden would agree with my position.

You can only do it for so long and then you need to see results. Eventually, you just go through the motions.

You can't be a bad leader and expect people to follow you off a cliff... let alone over and over again.

I'm sure Wooden would agree.

speakout4
01-23-2011, 04:43 PM
You can only do it for so long and then you need to see results. Eventually, you just go through the motions.

You can't be a bad leader and expect people to follow you off a cliff... let alone over and over again.

I'm sure Wooden would agree.
You are correct if you think that you are playing for the coach but you are playiing for yourself, the fans, the people who pay your salary, the franchise and for everyone else who wants this team to be successful.

I have no understanding of your position because there are lots of very miserable bosses in this world and the people under them don't fold. You must not have had such an experience.

Wooden would never let anyone off the hook by "quitting".

ilive4sports
01-23-2011, 04:47 PM
You are correct if you think that you are playing for the coach but you are playiing for yourself, the fans, the people who pay your salary, the franchise and for everyone else who wants this team to be successful.

I have no understanding of your position because there are lots of very miserable bosses in this world and the people under them don't fold. You must not have had such an experience.

Wooden would never let anyone off the hook by "quitting".

JOB is not John Wooden.

speakout4
01-23-2011, 04:48 PM
JOB is not John Wooden.
You're missing the point which is quitting or not quitting and letting people down.

McKeyFan
01-23-2011, 05:00 PM
You're missing the point which is quitting or not quitting and letting people down.
Well, it's a bit easier to heed the coach's admonition to suck it up and perform despite the coach . . . when Wooden is your coach.

O'Braindead
01-23-2011, 05:02 PM
It's called professionalism. You don't quit because you don't like your coach. You don't quit because you don't like your boss, commanding officer, or anyone else. You do your job because others are depending on you to do just that.

I'm sure Wooden would agree with my position.


You can only do it for so long and then you need to see results. Eventually, you just go through the motions.

You can't be a bad leader and expect people to follow you off a cliff... let alone over and over again.

I'm sure Wooden would agree.

I have a booklet of quotes that I would like to share from Wooden. Let's go directly to the source:

John Wooden once said, "I continually stress to my players that all I expect from them at practice and in the games is their maximum effort."

"I do not want players who don't have a keen desire to win and do not play hard and aggressively to accomplish that objective."

"Remember this, the choices you make in life make you."

Take whatever related quotes to agree with your point of view, but it is what it is. I don't think John Wooden would put up with Brandon Rush. I personally think that he'd much rather prefer a Dahntay Jones over Brandon Rush. The fact that Jim doesn't play Dahntay simply because he can't shoot the three is extremely frustrating.

Sometimes mental strength trumps physical abilities. Not all the time, but in my opinion it does in this case. If I was Jim I'd play Dahntay more than he does because he has will and the desire to win. That can't be taught.



JOB is not John Wooden.

Polar-opposites.

Let's go back to John Wooden, "Losing is only temporary and not encompassing. You must simply study it, learn from it, and try not to lose the same way again. Then you must have the self control to forget about it." What Jim has failed to do for four years is study, learn, and try to not lose the same way. Jim has blamed the players for losing and points the finger at everyone but himself on most occasions.

He has stuck with Troy for two years, stuck with TJ for too long every season, put up with Rush not being aggressive, and has played guys like Solomon Jones over Josh McRoberts. We aren't going to recover from losing or overcome losing until O'Brien is gone.

BlueNGold
01-23-2011, 05:03 PM
It's probably time to turn the page on Brandon...and label him a long term backup.

I'm not convinced he's better than his brother Kareem.

speakout4
01-23-2011, 05:05 PM
Well, it's a bit easier to heed the coach's admonition to suck it up and perform despite the coach . . . when Wooden is your coach.
More coaches resemble JOB than Wooden but we are not looking at other players quitting so this is unique to Rush.

He's not going to play hard until he's in a contract year.

CableKC
01-23-2011, 05:24 PM
I seem to overlook this thanks to Jim O'Brien being the only story right now, but did Brandon Rush really play 24 minutes last night with a stat line of: 1reb 1ast 1stl

Paul George got 7 minutes.. 7 and stat line was: 7pts 3reb

Brandon's defense has dropped as well? Is there anyway to light a permanent fire under this guy's a$$?

We need to play Paul George to find out if we have a SG or not, but Rush is not the answer.
I have no problem with BRush playing 24 minutes even with that statline....if I had to complain about PG playing only 7 minutes and question why "Player X" was playing over "Player Y"...that player ( like normal ) would be Posey getting minutes over PG.

Although I ( overall ) favor a "put the best lineup in regardless of the situation", I now have more of a "sink or swim with your young core Players" mentality. To me, that translates into PG getting consistent minutes on par with or over Posey.

Bball
01-23-2011, 05:25 PM
You're missing the point which is quitting or not quitting and letting people down.

You're missing the point... You can only expect people to follow off a cliff for so long before they can no longer follow with all their heart. At best they can go through the motions.

Eventually, you need to see results. You need to understand there's a method to the madness. Otherwise, eventually it's just madness.

Of course in the world outside of sports if you have a boss you cannot respect he'll either be quickly replaced (because others see it too) or else you can just quit and find a more suitable fit. The NBA doesn't really offer that option.

With O'Brien here on his 4th year, players have to wonder not only about the coach but about the structure of the franchise that would actually sign him for that 4th year and stick with him. Sticking with O'Brien this long has opened up a lot of questions about management and ownership.

All this said... Brandon might be the wrong player to be making this argument for. Danny Granger's regression as a player might be a better example.

speakout4
01-23-2011, 05:37 PM
You're missing the point... You can only expect people to follow off a cliff for so long before they can no longer follow with all their heart. At best they can go through the motions.
.

This going off the cliff metaphor is a little bizarre but if you don't think that Rush has obligations to do his best for his team, fans, the people who pay him etc. couldn't he play with all his heart for others.? My only point is that it isn't just Rush and JOB we're discussing. Others are busting their b**** but Rush true to his convictions that JOB is taking him off a cliff is not participating? Is he saying that JOB is so terrible that he won't shoot the ball or drive to the basket?
This logic will not fly in my world. You do your best regardless. Rethink the term team player you quote every time.

ilive4sports
01-23-2011, 05:44 PM
This going off the cliff metaphor is a little bizarre but if you don't think that Rush has obligations to do his best for his team, fans, the people who pay him etc. couldn't he play with all his heart for others.? My only point is that it isn't just Rush and JOB we're discussing. Others are busting their b**** but Rush true to his convictions that JOB is taking him off a cliff is not participating? Is he saying that JOB is so terrible that he won't shoot the ball or drive to the basket?
This logic will not fly in my world. You do your best regardless. Rethink the term team player you quote every time.

So have you ever worked for a boss who you absolutely hated and that boss was ruining the company, taking it down, losing business, have certain workers do certain tasks even though they cant, and well pretty much sucked? Cause thats JOB. Every normal person wouldn't give 110% in that situation. Why? Cause its pointless.

speakout4
01-23-2011, 05:46 PM
So have you ever worked for a boss who you absolutely hated and that boss was ruining the company, taking it down, losing business, have certain workers do certain tasks even though they cant, and well pretty much sucked? Cause thats JOB. Every normal person wouldn't give 110% in that situation. Why? Cause its pointless.
Then stand up and say so or quit but don't use that as an excuse to not do your job to make things better....You take the money then do your best. It's that simple.

ilive4sports
01-23-2011, 05:52 PM
Then stand up and say so or quit but don't use that as an excuse to not do your job to make things better....You take the money then do your best. It's that simple.

Say so? If he says anything he won't see the court again the rest of the season. And quit? Be realistic here. Would you quit and walk away from your million dollar contract? Didn't think so.

speakout4
01-23-2011, 05:55 PM
Say so? If he says anything he won't see the court again the rest of the season. And quit? Be realistic here. Would you quit and walk away from your million dollar contract? Didn't think so.
I would play my best to win so that at the end of the day I wouldn't have any excuses....

ilive4sports
01-23-2011, 05:59 PM
I would play my best to win so that at the end of the day I wouldn't have any excuses....

Well I guess you are the most perfect person then.

Hicks
01-23-2011, 05:59 PM
I would play my best to win so that at the end of the day I wouldn't have any excuses....

So, have you worked in the kind of bad situation he asked you about, or not? It sounds like you haven't, and that you're speaking entirely from ideals, and not past experience. That's fine, btw, but I wanted to know which it was.

speakout4
01-23-2011, 06:05 PM
So, have you worked in the kind of bad situation he asked you about, or not? It sounds like you haven't, and that you're speaking entirely from ideals, and not past experience. That's fine, btw, but I wanted to know which it was.
I have worked in a number of bad situations but let my conscience dictate my behavior. At the end of the day you have to live with yourself and know that in spite of everything you have tried to do your best. As my avatar suggests I am not as young as some here so my experiences are wide-ranging. I don't quite understand why my position comes across as idealistic. If we're talking about pacers no one else has quit on JOB.

ilive4sports
01-23-2011, 06:17 PM
I have worked in a number of bad situations but let my conscience dictate my behavior. At the end of the day you have to live with yourself and know that in spite of everything you have tried to do your best. As my avatar suggests I am not as young as some here so my experiences are wide-ranging. I don't quite understand why my position comes across as idealistic. If we're talking about pacers no one else has quit on JOB.

I would disagree with that. There are times where I see a lot of the players just going through the motions. Just like Rush.

Sookie
01-23-2011, 06:25 PM
I would disagree with that. There are times where I see a lot of the players just going through the motions. Just like Rush.

Mike Wells said he thinks the younger guys that are out to prove themselves (Hans, Price, PG, Josh) haven't quit on the coach. That he thinks the vets have. (oh the irony) and he left the young guys that get to play (Collison, Rush, Roy) consistently, out of it. My guess is Collison and Rush are annoyed, and Roy hasn't quit yet. But that's just from looking at the body language and such. (And I'd wager that Collison is most annoyed)

DemonHunter1105
01-23-2011, 06:30 PM
I was not happy with his performance last night.

But what I see when Brandon doesn't drive or take shots is that he knows it isn't a good idea. He clearly knows his own limitations on offense, and he is not that great at driving past most of the guards in the NBA and finishing so he decides not to do it.

Other times it feels like he is open for a three and doesn't shoot it. In my mind he probably just isn't in rhythm and knows it doesn't have a high percentage of going in so he doesn't take the shot.

I said this before in another thread but I really feel like we need to run some more plays through him at the beginning of a game to get him confident about shooting. The real issue he can work on without any help is when the ball is being held by someone looking for an open pass, he needs to cut harder and faster. He never seems like he can shake his man to get the ball when the shot clock is running low, and when he does he usually runs into Danny or someone else that got open at the same time. Maybe that is because he doesn't really want it. I hope that is not the case.

I personally feel like he is trying as hard as he can to help the team win games. The real problem is he doesn't know if Jim wants him to be the third scoring option, or just come in off the bench and be a defensive-only specialist.

For instance, he scored 20 pts on 7-16 shooting in 32 min against Dallas. While he could have been more efficient I am guessing most of you would say that is the aggression you want from him on offense.

Well, the next game against the Bulls he shot a total of 4 times, scored 4 pts in 18 minutes of play with only 3 fouls so it is not like he was in severe foul trouble.

Wouldn't you play your young SG who just had 20 pts a couple nights ago more than 18 min the next game?

Maybe Dunleavy was having a good game, or Rush didn't look good to Jim's eyes. I am too lazy to look up all the stats and figure it out. But like usual, I think you should complain about Jim's offense and rotations before you completely put blame on individual players.

ilive4sports
01-23-2011, 06:36 PM
Mike Wells said he thinks the younger guys that are out to prove themselves (Hans, Price, PG, Josh) haven't quit on the coach. That he thinks the vets have. (oh the irony) and he left the young guys that get to play (Collison, Rush, Roy) consistently, out of it. My guess is Collison and Rush are annoyed, and Roy hasn't quit yet. But that's just from looking at the body language and such. (And I'd wager that Collison is most annoyed)

And I would agree with all of this actually. The vets know how to do enough without making it look like the quit. The young guys have to prove themselves still so they will still play hard. Collison and Rush are really just doing their own thing I think. For Collison it is working out better, but there are times where he's just out there too. Hibbert was in his funk and trying to work out of it. And I think he has.

sportfireman
01-23-2011, 07:15 PM
I don't blame Rush he's been off. It happens but as a coach you have to adjust, George is playing well so he should get the minutes. A coaches job is to play the guys that give you the best possible chance of winning. But noooooo that doesn't happen with this team and coach. I don't blame the coach for Rush having a bad game but I blame him for the loss. You play the payers that are playing well. Rush and Posey didn't play well, George did. George should have took most of their mins.

Justin Tyme
01-23-2011, 08:22 PM
His numbers don't show that his aggressiveness is getting things done. He has had 2 games of double digit points (19 points in 40 minutes back on Jan. 8th, and 11 points in 18 minutes on the 20th) in the month of January. He also doesn't rebound very well to be such an "aggressive" player.

Here are Henderson's stats from January, since Silas took over...

11 games
22 minutes
7.2 points (43% FG, 0% 3PT, 70% FT)
2.6 rebounds
0.6 steals
0.4 blocks

and he only averages 1.6 FT attempts per game. Not a trait of a very aggressive player. In comparison, Rush averaged...

9 games
29 minutes
8.6 points (36% FG, 31% 3PT, 81% FT)
3.4 rebounds
0.6 steals
0.3 blocks
1.8 FTA per game

And that was Rush at his worst. Not saying Rush is aggressive by any means because he isn't. But let's not pretend that Henderson is.


I see what you are saying, BUT lets compare apples with apples. Rush has 1 year more experience in the NBA, and a ton more games and minutes. I don't think it's quite right to start comparing a "bench duster" who has just now recently started to get consistant playing time b/c of a coaching to Rush.

CooperManning
01-23-2011, 08:27 PM
Per Wells' Twitter:


Remember when Shawne Williams was on thin ice in Indy? That's where Brandon Rush is with his spot in the rotation, according to O'Brien

http://twitter.com/#!/MikeWellsNBA

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 08:28 PM
Per Wells' Twitter:



http://twitter.com/#!/MikeWellsNBA

but Dunleavy wasnt on thin ice when he was playing like **** a few weeks back??

BringJackBack
01-23-2011, 08:29 PM
Does that mean more Paul George (:pray:), or something that doesn't make any sense?

pwee31
01-23-2011, 08:30 PM
Wait, does this mean Jim O'Brien watches the games? Or another command from the top?

Justin Tyme
01-23-2011, 08:31 PM
Sticking with O'Brien this long has opened up a lot of questions about management and ownership.


YES, IT HAS!!!!!!!!

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 08:33 PM
Per Wells' Twitter:



http://twitter.com/#!/MikeWellsNBA

JMV


@MikeWellsNBA You think JOB might want to watch his step on that ice too?




@JMV1070 you would think that. but not sure they would turn to anybody on the bench

pacer4ever
01-23-2011, 08:35 PM
Does that mean more Paul George (:pray:), or something that doesn't make any sense?

no more Posey and Mike Dun will play 40 mins

LA_Confidential
01-23-2011, 08:38 PM
Brandon is a spot up shooter. He will only thrive if he catches and shoots. We dont have anyone currently in the rotation that can create shots for himself except for DC and Danny(occasionally) AJ tries but he isnt really all that great at it. The thing about PG is that he gets frozen out of the offense so much that we dont know if he can do it.

ilive4sports
01-23-2011, 08:38 PM
Posey at the 2 now!

Eleazar
01-23-2011, 08:55 PM
I don't understand the complaints about emotion. Yes, Brandon Rush does not express his emotion like NFL defensive players, but a lot of those players celebrate a tackle after giving up a 15 yard run and tend to not think about what they are doing. That doesn't mean he doesn't have emotions or that he doesn't care. It just means he expresses his emotions in other ways. When I played I rare showed my emotions the way you guys seem to think a player should, and typically only when I was extremely frustrated. I still had emotions, but I knew that if I let those emotions go I would more than likely do something stupid.

Rush plays the game of basketball more like chess than football. In order to be good at chess you have to control your emotions, otherwise you will make a bad move in frustration. That is what you see a lot out of Granger. His frustration leads him into taking a lot of bad shots instead of doing what is best and passing the ball to someone else. Rush won't do that. If he knows it isn't a good shot he isn't going to take it, if he knows it would be a dumb idea to drive to the hoop he isn't going to drive it. This kind of play doesn't show up in the stat sheet, but it is not a bad thing. In most cases it is a good thing because you don't have him taking a bunch of bad shots.

xIndyFan
01-23-2011, 08:59 PM
i got no problem with brandon playing without a lot of emotion. my favorite pacer of all time, derrick mckey, never played with much emotion. some guys are like that. my problem with brandon is not doing anything in the portland game.

i would love brandon as the 3rd swing player behind danny and paul. they would make a solid rotation.

gummy
01-23-2011, 09:26 PM
I think we have a lot of good indications that PG is going to be the superior player and that's great. Of course if we can fill a need I am fine with trading Rush but I don't feel the need to ship him out just to be rid of him like some people seem to. Rush can be an above average overall backup shooting guard and I think a wing rotation of Granger-Paul-Rush sounds pretty nice.

McKeyFan
01-23-2011, 11:28 PM
Remember when Shawne Williams was on thin ice in Indy? That's where Brandon Rush is with his spot in the rotation, according to O'Brien
Sounds to me like TPTB has knowledge of Rush still imbibing.

Justin Tyme
01-23-2011, 11:43 PM
Sounds to me like TPTB has knowledge of Rush still imbibing.


I'd hate to think he's that DUMB!

cdash
01-24-2011, 12:50 AM
I've seen enough of Rush to know he isn't a core part of our future.

PacersPride
01-24-2011, 01:15 AM
I've seen enough of Rush to know he isn't a core part of our future.

its harsh but i do agree. im advocating a dun/rush/1st deal, would seem like a strong package to offer. ive officially declared rush to be no more than an ideal 6th man on a team, which is fine but not the answer at sg.

very inconsistent offensive player.

CableKC
01-24-2011, 04:24 AM
I've seen enough of Rush to know he isn't a core part of our future.
Are you judging him as our future Starting SG?

I do not think that he's a Starting quality SG on a Playoff bound Team....but I'd certainly consider him as part of our future core as our 1st GF off the bench and/or 6th man. He's a solid perimeter defender. He's not a scorer but ( as LA Confidential said ) a spot up shooter that could easily fill the "Bruce Bowen/Derrick McKey" role on this Team.

CableKC
01-24-2011, 04:31 AM
its harsh but i do agree. im advocating a dun/rush/1st deal, would seem like a strong package to offer. ive officially declared rush to be no more than an ideal 6th man on a team, which is fine but not the answer at sg.

very inconsistent offensive player.
I don't get why we have to look at BRush and ask whether he's a Starter or not and therefore consider him a part of the future core or not.

ilive4sports
01-24-2011, 04:44 AM
I don't get why we have to look at BRush and ask whether he's a Starter or not and therefore consider him a part of the future core or not.

Agreed. Since when is having a guy be a 6th man bad? If PG develops like he can, having Rush back him up would be good as long as he progresses himself. Now I'm not saying don't trade the guy, but just because he isn't starter material doesn't mean he shouldnt be a part of our future.

This is my answer to this thread:

Jim O'Brien... seriously?

DaveP63
01-24-2011, 10:12 AM
Brandon's defense has dropped as well? Is there anyway to light a permanent fire under this guy's a$$?

381