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cdash
01-20-2011, 02:46 PM
This is from his chat today:


Damon ((Mpls, MN))

With the word that O'brien has been letting Collison run more pick and roll and it paying dividends. Do you see them beating out PHI for the 8th seed? i don't...never been an O'brien fan. Should they consider a coaching change after the season with THAT MUCH TALENT?
John Hollinger (2:40 PM)

Indy is 50-50 to get the 8 seed, and if you look a their defensive stats I think Obie is having a much more positive impact than you think. As far as all that "talent" you allege, I'm missing it. Indy has a lot of solid young players who can be important parts of a winning team two or three years down the road .... but they're missing the biggest part, the A-list All-Star for all the other guys to play off of. Rush, Hibbert, Collison, George, Hansbrough ... those are all great pieces. But they've gotta score a centerpiece star either in free agency or trade. And no, Danny Granger doesn't qualify.

He seems to have backtracked a little bit on Rush. Calling him a "great piece". He was very bullish on him the past few seasons. Nothing earth-shattering here, but I thought it was mildly interesting.

BringJackBack
01-20-2011, 02:49 PM
I agree with everything Hollinger said.. Unfortunately. We need to find "that guy"..

If we can't find a way to get Iggy, Martin, etc. along with a stud PF, we are in hell for a long time..

cdash
01-20-2011, 02:53 PM
I agree with everything Hollinger said.. Unfortunately. We need to find "that guy"..

If we can't find a way to get Iggy, Martin, etc. along with a stud PF, we are in hell for a long time..

Yeah, although I really don't want Kevin Martin. He's a great scorer and gets to the foul line a lot, but he might be (and this isn't hyperbole) the worst wing defender in the NBA. He is a truly miserable defender.

BringJackBack
01-20-2011, 02:55 PM
Meh, he's still an upgrade over Rush/Dunleavy in my opinion.. They are both very, very mediocre.

But yeah, if we can't land at least two impact players, I'm going to lose all hope and prepare for 10-14 picks for the next five years.. Unless if our FO comes to their senses and trade for some top picks.

Since86
01-20-2011, 02:56 PM
I don't think we need to find "that guy." Boston doesn't have just one "that guy" certainly not how they play currently, maybe in their primes when they were on seperate teams they were. Detroit never had "that guy." Orlando really doesn't have "that guy." Sure they have Howard, but you can't go to him late in games like LAL can.

I think if you get a pretty good PF, a Boozer level player, you can get good enough pieces at all 5 positions, and hope you have a decent bench, where you can make a run at some things.

DC/PG/Danny/X Player/Roy, assuming either X or Roy can be a 18/9 guy while the other can be a 14/7 guy would be a pretty good team. But X needs to either be a really good post player, or just money from midrange.

The Pacers lack the player that has the ability to grind teams down.

Obviously this all hinges around their ability to defend, but there isn't a single team in the league that has "that guy." Every team needs multiple pieces in place. I don't konw what else you want from a #1. When you average 25+ points a season, that's pretty damn good and it puts you in the 2nd tier with some pretty good players.

The Pacers don't need to find a Batman. Multiple (and I mean 3-4) Robins can get it done, or atleast make you very competitive.

cdash
01-20-2011, 02:58 PM
He just added this:


steve (INDY)

Do you see D West signing with the pacers this offseason?? the pacers need a known scorer at the PF don't they? or do they need a SG worse?
John Hollinger (2:54 PM)

I think West would be a great fit in Indiana and the Pacers will ahve the cap room. Be interesting to see if he chooses that situation over his current one, or if a larger market team gets involved in a sign-and-trade scenario.

West's age concerns me.

BringJackBack
01-20-2011, 02:59 PM
That's all very, very difficult to accomplish with the pieces that we have though. By the time George is ready to put up monster numbers, Granger will be 30-31.. I am not holding my breath that Roy will figure it out because that is putting a lot of hope on someone that hasn't been getting it done.

I trust in DC and George though to be those "Robin" type of guys.

cdash
01-20-2011, 03:04 PM
That's all very, very difficult to accomplish with the pieces that we have though. By the time George is ready to put up monster numbers, Granger will be 30-31.. I am not holding my breath that Roy will figure it out because that is putting a lot of hope on someone that hasn't been getting it done.

I trust in DC and George though to be those "Robin" type of guys.

I hate these Batman and Robin analogies. Worry about building a team, not a DC Comics dream team. Who on that Pistons title team was Batman? Who was Robin? I realize that's the exception to the rule, but it can be done. They were really close to winning multiple titles and were a fixture in the ECF for half a decade. If we surround our current players with the correct pieces, who's to say what will happen? We need to at least let it play out before waving the white flag.

On PG: I'm still a little baffled by the pick. I don't think he will be a SG for very long, I think maybe he was Granger insurance. They might be mutually exclusive of one another in a year or two, if George develops like we all hope.

SMosley21
01-20-2011, 03:05 PM
He just added this:



West's age concerns me.

West's age only bothers me if we can't get him to take a 3-4 year deal. He just turned 30 in August and has shown no signs of slowing down, so he should have a few more years left in him at his current productivity (barring some unforeseen injury).

Since86
01-20-2011, 03:06 PM
I really wouldn't be opposed to trading Danny for a stud PF, if you think you've got one and the deal can be worked, and go with a DC/Rush/PG/X/Roy.

My point is more saying you can have a 2nd tier, 25ppg scorer, surrounded by 14-18pt consistent scorers and it could work. Again, depending on the defense.

Or maybe you can hope that PG has the ability to become the #1 option, and Danny has the ability to be an 18pt guy. That would work too.

All my uneducated opinion though.

purdue101
01-20-2011, 03:06 PM
This is from his chat today:



He seems to have backtracked a little bit on Rush. Calling him a "great piece". He was very bullish on him the past few seasons. Nothing earth-shattering here, but I thought it was mildly interesting.

I've been pressing this issue for the past month. We have the best young supporting cast in the league. Hibbert/Hans/Rush/DC/AJ/McBob are every bit as talented as Green/Ibalka/Harden/Thabo/Maynor. We just need our A-listers like Durant & Westbrook. I'm hopeful that one of Paul or Lance can step up. The other needs to be acquired and IMO, the easiest route would be dangling Danny.

This is why I've recently turned so adamantly against guys like Iggy, Nene, etc. Those guys to me are not stars. They will strip our assets & bog down our cap, preventing us from obtaining the missing piece.

cdash
01-20-2011, 03:08 PM
West's age only bothers me if we can't get him to take a 3-4 year deal. He just turned 30 in August and has shown no signs of slowing down, so he should have a few more years left in him at his current productivity (barring some unforeseen injury).

Yeah, but you know he is going to aim for a 5 or 6 year deal. I'd be fine with adding West on a 3 or 4 year deal. I really like him as a player, and think he'd be a nice fit next to Hibbert in the frontcourt, and we already know he and Collison can play well together.

Pacersalltheway10
01-20-2011, 03:17 PM
Trade Danny for a top pick in the draft and a young PF ( Favors and nets 1st) and We've got a chance at Perry jones, a 6-11 WING player who can do basically everything. considering he's only 19 he might even grow into a 7 footer. and our stud PF for years to come. It looks much brighter than with Danny although i hate to say it. Our best chance of getting that "one guy" is in the draft like OKC.

I would not trade for Iggy. as already said he would strip down our assets.

Granger and Iggy will not get us in the playoffs for years to come if we have to give up valuable pieces to get him.

Unclebuck
01-20-2011, 03:18 PM
I agree 100% with Hollinger and it really shows up late in games and that is why we lose a lot of close games .

LA_Confidential
01-20-2011, 03:19 PM
My Hope is that we can swing a deal for Iggy while being able to keep Rush an PG. Something like Dun+Foster+1st for Iggy+ Songaila in a straight up salary dump.

If we could do that, I'd be content.

BringJackBack
01-20-2011, 03:19 PM
I hate these Batman and Robin analogies. Worry about building a team, not a DC Comics dream team. Who on that Pistons title team was Batman? Who was Robin? I realize that's the exception to the rule, but it can be done. They were really close to winning multiple titles and were a fixture in the ECF for half a decade. If we surround our current players with the correct pieces, who's to say what will happen? We need to at least let it play out before waving the white flag.

On PG: I'm still a little baffled by the pick. I don't think he will be a SG for very long, I think maybe he was Granger insurance. They might be mutually exclusive of one another in a year or two, if George develops like we all hope.

Sure, I was just playing along though. Spurs, Pistons, etc.. I would actually prefer to the Lebron type teams.. My concern though is that Larry is being too stubborn and he's going to pass on guys like Iggy or Gerald Wallace as well as West or Nene.. Then we're screwed as fans because better options aren't going to come up this year.

Collison
Igoudala
Granger
West
Hibbert

I'm still not sold on that, but it is still 10x better than Collison/Rush/Granger/Hans/Hibbert which is what I am afraid of having to get used to for a while due to Bird being somewhat stubborn. West and Igoudala would become our best players.

However, if we aren't going to try very hard to go after players at the deadline, than I am going to have to wave the white flag, because chances are that Nene and West accept their options too in FA and we're stuck with DC/Rush/Granger/Hans/Hibbert going into the season.

As Peck said, I'm just not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. The players are there, but it seems as if Larry doesn't want them.

SMosley21
01-20-2011, 03:19 PM
Trade Danny for a top pick in the draft and a young PF ( Favors and nets 1st) and We've got a chance at Perry jones, a 6-11 WING player who can do basically everything. considering he's only 19 he might even grow into a 7 footer. and our stud PF for years to come. It looks much brighter than with Danny although i hate to say it. Our best chance of getting that "one guy" is in the draft like OKC.

I would not trade for Iggy. as already said he would strip down our assets.

Granger and Iggy will not get us in the playoffs for years to come if we have to give up valuable pieces to get him.

If we're trading for Favors, wouldn't you hope that we already had our stud PF for years to come?

BringJackBack
01-20-2011, 03:24 PM
If we're trading for Favors, wouldn't you hope that we already had our stud PF for years to come?

I may be wrong, but I think that Perry is a 6'11" small forward in the NBA, which is very unique and intriguing.

purdue101
01-20-2011, 03:26 PM
This is from his chat today:



He seems to have backtracked a little bit on Rush. Calling him a "great piece". He was very bullish on him the past few seasons. Nothing earth-shattering here, but I thought it was mildly interesting.


Sure, I was just playing along though. Spurs, Pistons, etc.. I would actually prefer to the Lebron type teams.. My concern though is that Larry is being too stubborn and he's going to pass on guys like Iggy or Gerald Wallace as well as West or Nene.. Then we're screwed as fans because better options aren't going to come up this year.

Collison
Igoudala
Granger
West
Hibbert

I'm still not sold on that, but it is still 10x better than Collison/Rush/Granger/Hans/Hibbert which is what I am afraid of having to get used to for a while due to Bird being somewhat stubborn. West and Igoudala would become our best players.

However, if we aren't going to try very hard to go after players at the deadline, than I am going to have to wave the white flag, because chances are that Nene and West accept their options too in FA and we're stuck with DC/Rush/Granger/Hans/Hibbert going into the season.

As Peck said, I'm just not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. The players are there, but it seems as if Larry doesn't want them.

I don't mind that lineup and believe we could obtain those pieces today if we really wanted (we have the assets). Maybe substitute Nene with West as I'm not sold that West is available. Anyways, I like the lineup, it will win 45-50 games a year, but we're not winning a title with that. Eventually, we would have to strip it down again and start over, and at that point, Hibbert,DC,etc will be in their prime. It becomes a cycle of medicority. Let's just pull the OKC model - get the young pieces in place, let them grow, and keep your flexibility so you can plug the holes when it is their time to contend.

Sparhawk
01-20-2011, 03:53 PM
If we're trading for Favors, wouldn't you hope that we already had our stud PF for years to come?

Doesn't Perry Jones play SF?

SMosley21
01-20-2011, 04:01 PM
Doesn't Perry Jones play SF?

Yes. My point was that if we had Favors, why would we need Jones to develop into our stud PF as well, which is what I believe pacersalltheway10 was saying we could hope for. Maybe I read his post wrong.

Sparhawk
01-20-2011, 04:03 PM
Yes. My point was that if we had Favors, why would we need Jones to develop into our stud PF as well, which is what I believe pacersalltheway10 was saying we could hope for. Maybe I read his post wrong.

Ah, gotcha.

Hicks
01-20-2011, 04:17 PM
For once, I tend to agree with Hollinger. This reminds me of how I felt about the Charlotte Bobcats a couple of years ago, before they traded Emeka Okafor. Whenever they came to town, I felt like I was watching a really good team playing with their star player or players sitting out.

bulldog
01-20-2011, 05:13 PM
Hollinger is spot on here. However, there is a disconnect between the agreement with his point here and the general FIRE O'BRIEN sentiment the is all over the rest of the board. Something doesn't match up.

90'sNBARocked
01-20-2011, 05:21 PM
LOL@ Hollinger calling him "Obie"

Has he been reading Pacers Digest? Didnt we come up with that?

Trophy
01-20-2011, 05:22 PM
I really don't like John Hollinger or anything he writes.

beezer615
01-20-2011, 06:33 PM
Any thoughts on Collison, with the right coach, becoming that other superstar? Hibbert might have it down the road if he can get over the mental, but mental is most of what makes an all-star an all-star.

DaveP63
01-20-2011, 09:20 PM
I don't think we need to find "that guy." Boston doesn't have just one "that guy" certainly not how they play currently, maybe in their primes when they were on seperate teams they were. Detroit never had "that guy." Orlando really doesn't have "that guy." Sure they have Howard, but you can't go to him late in games like LAL can.

What they have, especially Boston, is a collection of stone cold killers who can and will hit a big shot at crunch time. Not just one guy who everyone in the building knows is going to get the ball. Multiple guys...kind of goes with what you said later in your post except there are multiple Batmen, not Robins.

Really?
01-20-2011, 10:28 PM
Kevin Martin, Iggy... didn't he say A-List AllStar... where are you guys getting these names from, Martin is a good scoring shooting guard but he is a volume shooter that doesn't really contribute in a lot of other ways, Iggy is okay but he is so inconsistent it would be frustrating just having him on the team.

The only way that we will get a A-list AllStar is by developing a player through the draft.(said this many times before)

With the NBA the way it is now with the teams at the top having so much talent we need A LOT to even get close to contending for anything.

Lets put it like this, How many of our players would start for the Bulls, Lakers, Thunder, Heat, Magic, Celtics or Spurs... I give u 1 and thats only in certain situations.

spreedom
01-20-2011, 10:41 PM
I like that Hollinger went out of his way in the past to call Rush the worst starter in the NBA, but he's suddenly a "great piece" even though I'd say he's only marginally improved.

xIndyFan
01-20-2011, 11:22 PM
What they have, especially Boston, is a collection of stone cold killers who can and will hit a big shot at crunch time. Not just one guy who everyone in the building knows is going to get the ball. Multiple guys...kind of goes with what you said later in your post except there are multiple Batmen, not Robins.

all of those guys can defend their own position also. when the pacers are looking at guys to trade/sign they need to get guys that can defend. at least defend their position.

Eleazar
01-21-2011, 04:19 PM
Hollinger is spot on here. However, there is a disconnect between the agreement with his point here and the general FIRE O'BRIEN sentiment the is all over the rest of the board. Something doesn't match up.

When people are saying they agree they are talking about his comments on our talent, not his comments on JOB.

bulldog
01-21-2011, 06:12 PM
When people are saying they agree they are talking about his comments on our talent, not his comments on JOB.

I maintain that if you acknowledge our mediocre talent, it's impossible to be this angry about JOB's coaching choices. Put it in perspective - at worst, JOB is taking a 7 seed, barely .500 team and turning it into a team that just misses the playoffs. It'd be nice to see the Pacers play in the first round, but objectively I just can't get that fired up about a guy hurting our chances to be mediocre.

Now if I were a Heat fan and I though Spoelstra was hurting their chance to win a title, that'd be a reason to get pissed.