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View Full Version : Maybe its time to think about trading Roy



90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 12:22 PM
Before your initial reaction is "oh my God no". I am just asking to take a look at it logically. I can not recall a game where both Roy and Danny had outstanding games together. Danny maybe or maybe not is a star, but at worst he is an above average player. I don't recall ever seeing a player regress to the level or Roy Hibbert this season. At first glance it is easy to place all the blame on Jim, but to me Jim has tried harder this year more than ever, to make Roy the focal point of the offense, and it is clearly not working. Since the first month Roy has been on a slide backwards, with no signs of turning it around. I love Roy as what type of person I think he is, but whatever the case may be he doesnt play well with Granger and the style of play that Granger likes. Danny also seems to be much stronger mentally.

In the past the Pacers have held on to players too long, like in my opinion not trying to move either Troy or Dun after their career years. To the rest of the NBA Roy represents a solid building block, so why not strike before the iron is completely cold?

Its not that I necessarily want Roy traded, but if we can get back a solid player for putting Roy in the package , I think we have to seriously consider it

The most depressing aspect of the season for me is not that Jim is still the coach, but that Jim gave Roy a chance this year and he has failed miserably.

Pacergeek
01-18-2011, 12:28 PM
it depends on what we could get for Roy. With how bad the Pacers have been, any player should be considered "tradeable."

In Roys case, it is really hard to give up on a Center prospect becasue it is freakin hard to fill that position. With a few exceptions, you need a good big man to ever be a contender.

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 12:29 PM
it depends on what we could get for Roy. With how bad the Pacers have been, any player should be considered "tradeable."

In Roys case, it is really hard to give up on a Center prospect becasue it is freakin hard to fill that position. With a few exceptions, you need a good big man to ever be a contender.

A few years ago I definitely think that was the case, but now there are a good half of the teams in the league using a PF at C

Pacergeek
01-18-2011, 12:31 PM
A few years ago I definitely think that was the case, but now there are a good half of the teams in the league using a PF at C

sure. you need a good "big man", which could be a PF, like Tim Duncan or Amare which are basically Centers. In our case, Josh and tyler will never be dominant big men.

sportfireman
01-18-2011, 12:33 PM
I'm not ready to give up on Roy. I would love to see him with a different coach. I think he just needs a change in "direction"...... IMO.

Mr_Smith
01-18-2011, 12:37 PM
Roy needs to call Bill Walton back up IMMEDIATELY

BornReady#6
01-18-2011, 12:38 PM
I'm not ready to give up on Roy. I would love to see him with a different coach. I think he just needs a change in "direction"...... IMO.

Yeah, this. But I think Walton sucks too, he should be mentored by Zo or Ewing.

jcouts
01-18-2011, 12:53 PM
Danny and Roy both played well during most of the games we were winning earlier in the year...remember, back when Danny was playing great defense?

That extra 10-15 points that Roy hasn't been scoring since then...Danny and Darren have been forced to try to compensate for...and neither of them have been doing as much on the defensive end as a result.

An underachieving player going through a slump turns into a vicious cycle.

Yes, Roy has been underachieving. But no, it's not the time to trade him.

The difference between what he did 20 games ago and what he's doing now is easily fixable. He didn't lose his talent or his abilities overnight.

Hicks
01-18-2011, 12:54 PM
Now would be a horrible time to trade Roy. His value in a trade is at an all-time low right now.

Sookie
01-18-2011, 12:57 PM
No.

First, I want to see him with a good coach.

Second, the guy works hard, wants to be a part of the future, and if all he becomes is a solid role player than I'm okay with that.

Third, he's a 7'2 skilled center. He's young and he's cheap. We won't get equal value for him.

I think people are getting quite impulsive, and just want to see change for the sake of change.

Personally, I want to see a good coach and let the younger guys develope for a season, just to see what they look like. I think it's really hard to judge right now.

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 01:04 PM
Now would be a horrible time to trade Roy. His value in a trade is at an all-time low right now.

I respectfully disagree

He is still a talented 7 footer, who has shown a lot of promise and is on a very cheap rookie contract, who has improved each year in the league. Right now it can be written he is in a slump, which is normal, yet if it continues the entire year, then I think his stock takes a hit

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 01:06 PM
No.

First, I want to see him with a good coach.

Second, the guy works hard, wants to be a part of the future, and if all he becomes is a solid role player than I'm okay with that.

Third, he's a 7'2 skilled center. He's young and he's cheap. We won't get equal value for him.

I think people are getting quite impulsive, and just want to see change for the sake of change.

Personally, I want to see a good coach and let the younger guys develop for a season, just to see what they look like. I think it's really hard to judge right now.

I understand and agree with your points, it is just to get you have to give and I question whether Dannys game meshes well with Roys abilities

Dr. Awesome
01-18-2011, 01:07 PM
Roy will blossom under a good coach. Right now its all mental.

When he was averaging 18/10/3 or around that area, O'Brien went to the press and bashed Hibbert. Ever since then has been the drop off. Lets get a coach who will encourage him before we trade him over a slump.

Dr. Awesome
01-18-2011, 01:08 PM
I understand and agree with your points, it is just to get you have to give and I question whether Dannys game meshes well with Roys abilities

Danny has to go before Roy does.

Both of them should stay until we find a coach, but if one were have to go, it would need to be Danny.

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 01:09 PM
If all it took for Roy's play to go in the crapper was one rough press snippet from his coach, then his mental stability is way worse than we ever thought.

pacer4ever
01-18-2011, 01:11 PM
Roy will blossom under a good coach. Right now its all mental.

When he was averaging 18/10/3 or around that area, O'Brien went to the press and bashed Hibbert. Ever since then has been the drop off. Lets get a coach who will encourage him before we trade him over a slump.

Im sry but u shouldnt need encouragement at the nba level this is his job. If he really needs encouragement then i doubt he is mentaly tuff to every be a decent NBA player

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 01:12 PM
Danny has to go before Roy does.

Both of them should stay until we find a coach, but if one were have to go, it would need to be Danny.

I used to feel the same my man but Danny has never had the kind of shtty games Roy has had.

Bottom line is Danny is a PROVEN all star, Roy has yet to prove anything close

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 01:13 PM
If all it took for Roy's play to go in the crapper was one rough press snippet from his coach, then his mental stability is way worse than we ever thought.

No doubt man,and I agree with you

but still could have an effect like Roy thinking maybe he is just not good enough

31andonly
01-18-2011, 01:14 PM
Let's talk again after two-three months with a new coach and a good PF on his side.

Merz
01-18-2011, 01:19 PM
It's never a good idea to sell low.

Sookie
01-18-2011, 01:20 PM
Didn't he fall off after he got wacked in the head by Dwight?

Maybe he's become tentative and thats his problem.

Trophy
01-18-2011, 01:25 PM
Let's get a new coach before we start talking about what we should do with our young core players.

Dr. Awesome
01-18-2011, 01:26 PM
Im sry but u shouldnt need encouragement at the nba level this is his job. If he really needs encouragement then i doubt he is mentaly tuff to every be a decent NBA player

What I meant was, a coach that wouldn't verbally abuse him in the press would help. Had Roy been having a bad year when O'Brien said that, thats one thing. But when he's having a great year, and the coach comes in and pretty much says he is sucking, that would be a "What the hell do you want from me." moment and could potentially make him more nervous and tentative. Roy worked his *** off this summer, only to be told after dominating that it wasn't good enough. When in that situation, I think a lot of people would get a little nervous while playing, knowing everything you do or don't do will end up in the press by your coach in a negative manner.

pacerDU
01-18-2011, 01:26 PM
I'm constantly flabbergasted by the short-term, knee-jerk reactions by people on this board at times.

Seriously. We're less than half-way through the season, with a coach that everyone knows (hopes) will be gone at the end of this year. The system being run is completely guard/wing-oriented, with no consistent line-up.

Probably 25 games ago, people on here were talking about Roy being a future all-star. Now people want to trade him for, like Hicks mentioned, peanuts! Maybe you built your hopes up too high?

I personally really like Roy. I think people jumped way too far ahead in declaring him a perennial all-star. He's in his 3rd year people 3RD YEAR!. Centers and PG take longer to develop than other positions. Couple that with him playing under a coach who essentially doesn't believe in the need for a traditional center and there will be struggles.

Be more realistic people and have some patience!

beast23
01-18-2011, 01:32 PM
I understand and agree with your points, it is just to get you have to give and I question whether Dannys game meshes well with Roys abilitiesI don't know that I've ever seen anyone concerned with whether a center's abilities mesh with a wing's abilities. A PG's abilities, possibly. A PF's abilities, definitely.

I agree with Hick's that Hibbert's value is probably in the decline from the perspective of others in the league.

I'm not saying that anyone on our roster is untouchable, but like many of our other players, it would be nice to know what we have and how good they can be from the perspective of another coach.

What I do know is that should Hibbert be traded, we would have a pretty big drop-off in our ability to man his position. So, a trade would not be wise unless a center or PF is returned capable of playing center at a reasonable level of abilities.

ballism
01-18-2011, 01:34 PM
I'm never against a good deal, unless it's an icon - like Reggie, or Dirk for Mavs, or Duncan for Spurs. But at this point we wouldn't get much for him. His stock is probably very low.

Maybe after Denver trades Carmelo they might want to get a young C for Nene. That I wouldn't mind. But any team that wants to win now isn't going to give much for Roy atm.

Unclebuck
01-18-2011, 01:38 PM
I've never been a big Roy fan, but I just think we all expect too much out of him. He needs to be at best the third best player on the team and probably 4th or 5th best player on a team.

Pacers need better players around him. I think he should never be expected to be our best low post offensive player.

PacersPride
01-18-2011, 01:44 PM
The numerous trades are a bit extreme on here, but i get its fun. but if your gonna make a proposal like this than elaborate on what you want in return. if your willing to trade him when his value is low than what would a team have to offer for you to accept?

i recall okc was interested in hibbert, use them as an example if you want. guarantee what we want in return for roy okc will not give, and what okc is willing to give i would not take.

I hope the pacers keep Hibbert, he works too hard and can be a very solid center in time.

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 01:45 PM
No doubt man,and I agree with you

but still could have an effect like Roy thinking maybe he is just not good enough

I mean, Yes, it could have an effect.

The more important question though is, should have an effect?

My answer is a decisive no.

Trophy
01-18-2011, 01:47 PM
I also really don't understand what more people want?

Danny and Roy are 2 really good players and I don't know realistically what more you want? We're not getting a superstar.

Danny is still a top player in the league and Roy is getting there.

We found our center, we found our PG, and we've had our wing man.

All very good players and are young with a lot of potential.

d_c
01-18-2011, 01:55 PM
I also really don't understand what more people want?

Danny and Roy are 2 really good players and I don't know realistically what more you want? We're not getting a superstar.

Danny is still a top player in the league and Roy is getting there.

We found our center, we found our PG, and we've had our wing man.

All very good players and are young with a lot of potential.

Danny is a really good player. He's probably Top 25-30. Roy at this point is not a very good player. He's a below average starting center.

Pacers have some very good players, yes. But there competition simply have better ones, and that's ultimately what you have to judge yourself against because nobody plays in a vacuum.

BillS
01-18-2011, 02:23 PM
Had this type of forum been around in the early 90s people would have been posting the same things about Rik. As it was, there was plenty of talk that Rik was a bust and would never amount to much.

Have some patience with Roy.

Unclebuck
01-18-2011, 02:30 PM
Had this type of forum been around in the early 90s people would have been posting the same things about Rik. As it was, there was plenty of talk that Rik was a bust and would never amount to much.



I remember there was a lot of booing of Rik Smits during games.

Bill, remember when Rik was benched for Greg Dreiling - and it wasn't for just a few games. Greg started 42 games in the '91 season and 23 games in the '92 season. Rik started 38 games in '91 and 55 games in '92.

What would this forum do if Solo started in place of Roy - I could imagine mass suicide

hoops_guy
01-18-2011, 02:59 PM
Yeah, even know I would be perfectly happy to not see Roy play over 15 minutes for 20 games or so, this is a horrible time to trade him.

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 03:08 PM
I'm constantly flabbergasted by the short-term, knee-jerk reactions by people on this board at times.

Seriously. We're less than half-way through the season, with a coach that everyone knows (hopes) will be gone at the end of this year. The system being run is completely guard/wing-oriented, with no consistent line-up.

Probably 25 games ago, people on here were talking about Roy being a future all-star. Now people want to trade him for, like Hicks mentioned, peanuts! Maybe you built your hopes up too high?

I personally really like Roy. I think people jumped way too far ahead in declaring him a perennial all-star. He's in his 3rd year people 3RD YEAR!. Centers and PG take longer to develop than other positions. Couple that with him playing under a coach who essentially doesn't believe in the need for a traditional center and there will be struggles.

Be more realistic people and have some patience!

Just because you question what might be in the franchise's best interest is not a knee jerk reaction

any CEO of a company would be doing said company an injustice if the company was under performing for a 3 consecutive year, and they didn't look at EVERY ASPECT of the business.

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 03:11 PM
The numerous trades are a bit extreme on here, but i get its fun. but if your gonna make a proposal like this than elaborate on what you want in return. if your willing to trade him when his value is low than what would a team have to offer for you to accept?

i recall okc was interested in hibbert, use them as an example if you want. guarantee what we want in return for roy okc will not give, and what okc is willing to give i would not take.

I hope the pacers keep Hibbert, he works too hard and can be a very solid center in time.

Good points, and I dont know exactly what would be feasible but would like to know if the Pacers are fielding inquiries about Roy

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 03:12 PM
I also really don't understand what more people want?

Danny and Roy are 2 really good players and I don't know realistically what more you want? We're not getting a superstar.

Danny is still a top player in the league and Roy is getting there.

We found our center, we found our PG, and we've had our wing man.

All very good players and are young with a lot of potential.

No disrespect but this is a very rosy outlook from fan of the team. I also dont buy that we cant get a superstar here. Money talks and we will have plenty next year

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 03:22 PM
I also really don't understand what more people want?

Danny and Roy are 2 really good players and I don't know realistically what more you want? We're not getting a superstar.

Danny is still a top player in the league and Roy is getting there.

We found our center, we found our PG, and we've had our wing man.

All very good players and are young with a lot of potential.

I wouldn't say Roy is a really good player. Sorry.

Trophy
01-18-2011, 03:23 PM
No disrespect but this is a very rosy outlook from fan of the team. I also dont buy that we cant get a superstar here. Money talks and we will have plenty next year

I think it's a rosy outlook how people are putting down our best players and actually thinking about trading them.

I'm not talking about money or signing someone being a problem. I have a problem with people considering it time to trade our best players because we're not above .500 now.

Trading Roy or Danny would mean we'd have to go out and find players to replace them which won't be easy.

We mostly need a better PF and we'll view our options over the summer.

Other than that, we have decent players with potential.

Trophy
01-18-2011, 03:23 PM
I wouldn't say Roy is a really good player. Sorry.

Definitely not now he's not.

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 03:24 PM
I think it's a rosy outlook how people are putting down our best players and actually thinking about trading them.



Apparently you don't know what the phrase "rosy outlook" means.

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 03:24 PM
Definitely not now he's not.

Seriously? You just said he was.

Really?
01-18-2011, 03:25 PM
Worst time to trade him, if you were going to trade him it would have been earlier in the season when he was doing something.... We still would need someone to come in and play center though... We are So Small

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 03:26 PM
Had this type of forum been around in the early 90s people would have been posting the same things about Rik. As it was, there was plenty of talk that Rik was a bust and would never amount to much.

Have some patience with Roy.

I agree with patience , but I think this thread derailed a bit. It wasnt a question of should we trade Roy, but should we at least look at what potential offers might be

1984
01-18-2011, 03:26 PM
STOP IT.
JUST STOP IT.

I'm getting so tired of, "Is it time to trade..." threads. If you traded a player every time he struggled the Pacers would have traded Reggie Miller and the Colts would have traded Peyton Manning.

STOP IT.
JUST STOP IT.

Trophy
01-18-2011, 03:28 PM
Seriously? You just said he was.

He is a good player and we've seen him be a good player, but now he's playing terribly.

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 03:28 PM
I remember there was a lot of booing of Rik Smits during games.

Bill, remember when Rik was benched for Greg Dreiling - and it wasn't for just a few games. Greg started 42 games in the '91 season and 23 games in the '92 season. Rik started 38 games in '91 and 55 games in '92.

What would this forum do if Solo started in place of Roy - I could imagine mass suicide

Not me

As unpopular as this might be , I would actually be in favor of starting Solo right now and bringing Roy off the bench.

It cant hurt and the guy is in a serious funk right now

Also, I dont think Solo is as bad as some here make it out to be

Trophy
01-18-2011, 03:28 PM
Apparently you don't know what the phrase "rosy outlook" means.

I'm done with this thread....

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 03:34 PM
STOP IT.
JUST STOP IT.

I'm getting so tired of, "Is it time to trade..." threads. If you traded a player every time he struggled the Pacers would have traded Reggie Miller and the Colts would have traded Peyton Manning.

STOP IT.
JUST STOP IT.



Thats a little over the top man

I dont think there is one single person on this board, Mods included, that has the right to tell someone to stop doing things in blazing capital letters , just because someone disagrees with it

Again it wasnt a "Let's trade Roy " thread, it was to discuss if we should see what might be offered for him

Lets say next year Dwight Howard doesnt want to re-up with Orlando, and we have the option of a sign and trade that included Roy as a piece

Would you not give him up?

Yes the analogy might seem far fetched but there are plenty of examples in NBA past where trades you thought would never happen, do.

odeez
01-18-2011, 03:39 PM
I agree with those who say they would like to see Roy with a different coach and system. I don't want to give up on him yet and still feel he can turn it around, but he needs help. It's so hard to understand his current state because he started out so strong. I was ready to embrace him as the new team leader and I still feel he as some of those qualities, but it appears now that both DG and Roy are not the leaders we want them to be.

Maybe our expectations of Roy got to high and now that he is failing to meet those expectations, so some are ready to explore a trade. I again thinks it's too soon. I mention in another thread, he needs a big man coach that can be with him everyday. I still think it is 100% mental with him. He gets too down on himself and he is not aggressive enough in the post with his size advantage. I would love if Walton could work with him again or another big man. I hope he is still exploring getting sports psychology help. I also think admitting you need help can sometime set you back even further. Maybe that is a factor, I don't know.

I do know he has put in too much work to just send him off because he is struggling again. We all saw over the summer and into training camp the videos of him busting his butt to get better. He earned a lot of respect for that in my book. He's devoted to getting better and that says a lot about him as a player and person. I agree though that we are starving to get more wins and be a factor in the playoffs. We have all waited too long.

I would want the Pacers to make some effort help him before a trade. He is still only 24 years old and 7 footers don't grow on trees. He has shown us what he can do when he is on it. That has somehow disappeared in my opinion due to some mental issues, issues that he is still working through.

Ultimately I think both Danny and Roy would benefit from playing along side a dominant PF. Someone who can handle the pressure and someone who is an experienced player at the position in the league. Who that is I am not sure, those type of players aren't just laying around for the taking either. I like what Tyler is doing, but think it may be too soon for him to start at the 4. And I have thoughts that maybe he isn't a starter in the league. Maybe he is a energy guy you bring off the bench, nothing wrong with that.

So in closing I do not want to give up on Roy yet. A trade would have to be a no brainer if we did move him. I agree that his value is lower now, but every team wants a 24yr 7 footer with potential in the league, so you could move I am sure. I am just not ready for that yet. I want this guy to succeed!

Gamble1
01-18-2011, 03:40 PM
I agree with patience , but I think this thread derailed a bit. It wasnt a question of should we trade Roy, but should we at least look at what potential offers might be
If we could get a all star type oof player for Roy and Rush then you do it. Are we going to get a player like that? Probably not. Right now we stuck with a underperforming team to which Roy is apart of and if we traded him now we would get back a mere role player.

I am perfectly fine with holding on to him. For one he will be resigned for less money now that he has hit a slump which will only help our cap situation going into 2012. Combine that with possibly have a new coach with a different offensive/defensive philosophy and I think this core group will be good for years to come.

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 03:45 PM
If we could get a all star type oof player for Roy and Rush then you do it. Are we going to get a player like that? Probably not. Right now we stuck with a underperforming team to which Roy is apart of and if we traded him now we would get back a mere role player.

I am perfectly fine with holding on to him. For one he will be resigned for less money now that he has hit a slump which will only help our cap situation going into 2012. Combine that with possibly have a new coach with a different offensive/defensive philosophy and I think this core group will be good for years to come.

Not an All-Star for Roy alone but if he is part of a package with Rush, an expiring/draft pick for a stud in return

Gamble1
01-18-2011, 03:49 PM
Not an All-Star for Roy alone but if he is part of a package with Rush, an expiring/draft pick for a stud in return
I am still not sure a GM bites on that deal. I would do a deal for Roy + Rush for EJ. I still doubt a team lets go of a potential all star for any of our assets outside of Granger.

PacersPride
01-18-2011, 03:50 PM
This is like B Rush all over again. were gonna hear for the remainder of the year trade Hibbert. Last two seasons it was Rush who was drafted before Hibbert and yet until this season has been very inconsistent. at least this year Rush has improved. Centers take even longer to develop.. ask any expert and most of them will tell you the same thing.

If Rush is only now playing closer to his abilities, can we please skip past the trade Hibbert threads like its a Rush rerun.

For those of you who want to deal Hibbert. Make some proposals... and lets hear if they are even realistic, otherwise this thread is vain.

I dont see any team wanting to ante up what Hibbert is truly worth at this time. If someone has a realistic trade proposal then I would like to hear it.

If not, then lets support Hibbert and discuss what it will actully take to make him better. I think a big man coach working with Hibbert year round would be ideal, if we want to see him take the next step. I dont know if its Walton or someone else, but options should be considered.

Secondly, its rediculous to even consider dealing Hibbert, unless a deal is just too good too pass up, and I dont see it happening, but again would like to at least hear someones proposals if were going to take this discussion seriously.

* edit: if the purpose of the thread is should we consider trading Roy than a simple NO will suffice.

pathil275
01-18-2011, 03:51 PM
His value hit rock-bottom recently, so there is no point in trading him NOW. Let him get his head straight and play like he played in the first 6 weeks of the season -unless anybody doubts that he'll reach that level again, what I in turn would question- and then you can dangle him and see what you get. But the roster right now has no replacement for him so we would have to acquire a starting center what might be a difficult task given the FA class of '11.

Except you want to keep O'Brien over the season, then you proobably don't need a center at all. I heard Murphy will be eligible. Anybody?

MyFavMartin
01-18-2011, 03:52 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/chris_mannix/10/29/assistant.coaches/

Gamble1
01-18-2011, 03:55 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/chris_mannix/10/29/assistant.coaches/
A list of potential head coaches in 2008.:confused: I don't get it.

DemonHunter1105
01-18-2011, 03:56 PM
No offense but it would be absolutely crazy to trade him now. He hasn't reached his peak yet for one, his trade value is lower than usual, and we still want to see him get some time with a different coach or system if that ever happens.

We have so many other options to get better right now I do not know how you do this unless you are trading him for a star or very good player on a losing team.

Let's just hope we use our expirings before the trade deadline to acquire some more help. If we can't find someone to trade with before then, hopefully we can use all the extra money in the offseason to acquire someone. If after all of that time goes by and we haven't got more help or better potential young players, then you consider trading your best players for more assets i.e. draft picks and young players.

Roy can still get it done. He just needs to get his confidence back, and have better looks. I personally hate how we give him the ball so far from the basket and expect him to find someone open. And if he doesn't, we put the pressure on him to hit a very tough shot. We need more penetration by our guards who can then look for little dishes to Roy in front of the basket to get him going. Once that happens it will open up the rest of his game much more in my opinion.

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 04:09 PM
Let's just hope we use our expirings before the trade deadline to acquire some more help.

I pray everyday we do that but I doubt it

One example is they wont trade Dun this year because they view him too important for a playoff run this year

DemonHunter1105
01-18-2011, 04:25 PM
Well, I do kind of think he would be great to have if he was playing decent and we made the playoffs. I just do not see those both happening at the same time.

What you might be thinking is Jim thinks he is invaluable to us for a playoff run. I have no doubt he loves every second that he is out there on the court for us. But in the end, Larry and Morway make the decisions so it really is up to them. I still have faith that if a trade were proposed that significantly improved our talent in the paint, they would include Dunleavy without hesitation.

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 04:37 PM
but Jim seems to have a lot of pull in the orginization

D-BONE
01-18-2011, 04:40 PM
I've never been a big Roy fan, but I just think we all expect too much out of him. He needs to be at best the third best player on the team and probably 4th or 5th best player on a team.

Pacers need better players around him. I think he should never be expected to be our best low post offensive player.

X a million! If we can somehow surround him with three to four superior players, he will be a solid starting center for our team. That's the role he can effectively play.

We should expect a few post up scores a game, but I don't ever seeing him being the anchor of an offense. But, as a complementary player, he would pay dividends to the tune of maybe 10-12 ppg, 6-8 rbds, 2 blocks.

Hard to actively seek a trade for a 3rd year big with reasonable proficiency. Yet, if we got something that was a no brainer return value, then you do it.

Sookie
01-18-2011, 04:42 PM
X a million! If we can somehow surround him with three to four superior players, he will be a solid starting center for our team. That's the role he can effectively play.

We should expect a few post up scores a game, but I don't ever seeing him being the anchor of an offense. But, as a complementary player, he would pay dividends to the tune of maybe 10-12 ppg, 6-8 rbds, 2 blocks.

Hard to actively seek a trade for a 3rd year big with reasonable proficiency. Yet, if we got something that was a no brainer return value, then you do it.

You realize he's averaging that now, right?

D-BONE
01-18-2011, 04:47 PM
This is like B Rush all over again. were gonna hear for the remainder of the year trade Hibbert. Last two seasons it was Rush who was drafted before Hibbert and yet until this season has been very inconsistent. at least this year Rush has improved. Centers take even longer to develop.. ask any expert and most of them will tell you the same thing.

If Rush is only now playing closer to his abilities, can we please skip past the trade Hibbert threads like its a Rush rerun.



Well, to be honest, I'm still somewhat underwhelmed by Rush. There's been some improvement, but the consistency. I'd even take consistency in one area, but the guys just doesn't impact the game consistently in any area.

90'sNBARocked
01-18-2011, 04:49 PM
Well, to be honest, I'm still somewhat underwhelmed by Rush. There's been some improvement, but the consistency. I'd even take consistency in one area, but the guys just doesn't impact the game consistently in any area.

Defense?

D-BONE
01-18-2011, 04:55 PM
You realizing he's averaging that now, right.

Yes. And he averaged roughly that last year. I just think this is what we get with him. Maybe he can up the points and boards a smidge, which would be great, of course!

My take on RH is that this is what he is...outside the inconsistency part. He has certain physical limitations - lack of agility, lack of lower body strength - that I think will preclude him from becoming an upper echelon center. That, and in the case of this year, teams learning how to defend him more effectively.

I think that level of expectations low to mid double figures, 6-8 boards are adequate. It would give us what we need with three to four good players around him. He'd just be giving us to it regularly without the long slumps.

Actually, since many here have made the Smits comparison, I think those expectations wouldn't be all that far off of what we got from Smits on average over his most effective years. And he was key as a solid center. He would occasionally go off for big points, but more regularly was in the teens and was never a dominant rebounder or shotblocker. Roy will probably be a bit more active there.

D-BONE
01-18-2011, 05:00 PM
Defense?

Rush...there's no doubt D is one of his strong suits, but he's not impacting the game yet with it, IMO.

I get that these guys are young and can still improve. At the same time we're in year three. And I just see Roy and Rush's ceilings as solid complementary players. In Rush's case, I'd like to see him affecting the game more at least in one area on a consistent basis.

Some here, IMO, think these guys can be regular all-star level talents. I hope that's true, but I don't see it. I think they both fit the bill of 5th starter or 6th man-ish unless you've got three superstars out there with them. Meaning we have a lot of work to do in obtaining elite players if we're counting on them to be starters.

Now, if we somehow land a stud PF, Collison pans out and Granger get back to where he was two years ago, it might work. But I don't feel that confident that all that will occur.

thefeistyone
01-18-2011, 06:54 PM
Is this seriously a thread?

We are talking about a 7'2 center we picked with the 17th pick in the drafts. Are are expectations of our players that out of whack? How many franchise centers are picked that late? For that matter, how many franchise centers are left in the league? I would say less than 10..and we want to trade a third year center with a lot of potential left.

I also think some of you are confusing forcing the ball into Roy in the post and running the offense through Roy. Running the offense through Roy means spacing and cuts to the basket, you know...stuff we learn in Jr. High. JOB's version involves giving the ball to Roy in a bad position and standing around trying to figure out why your power forward can't knock down a 3. There's a big difference.

Give the man some time. He's shown strong character and an excellent work ethic. It will take a lot more than a drought to get me to give up on him.

Pacersalltheway10
01-18-2011, 07:04 PM
I'm not going to lie but seriously it just :censored::censored: me off thst someone wants to trade a player everytime they struggle even if it hasnt been a whole season yet. I can see trading Danny Granger considering his value and age as part of the young core and George who could surpass him but Hibbert???? Who the heck are we going to have playing center? If we trade him for a PF we have a HUGE *** gaping hole at center. If we trade him for a center. We wont get any better we wont get an upgrade. WTH are you guys thinking??? It makes no logical sense at all. Hibberts best days are still ahead of him. It just blows my mind how some of you are so shortminded.

xIndyFan
01-18-2011, 07:05 PM
. . . As unpopular as this might be , I would actually be in favor of starting Solo right now and bringing Roy off the bench.

It cant hurt and the guy is in a serious funk right now

Also, I dont think Solo is as bad as some here make it out to be

don't know if i want the pqcers to start solo, but i agree that he's played better than he gets credit for. if he could finish close to the rim, he might be starting in place of roy already. :laugh:

PacersPride
01-18-2011, 07:09 PM
Well, to be honest, I'm still somewhat underwhelmed by Rush. There's been some improvement, but the consistency. I'd even take consistency in one area, but the guys just doesn't impact the game consistently in any area.

defensively? i wrote in another thread ive confirmed i believe rush is an ideal 6th man but not the solution at SG. so i hear ya. but his defense is very good and can impact a game.

Pacersalltheway10
01-18-2011, 07:10 PM
Wasn't it already discussed that the Pacers should always listen to potential offers unless we're a winning team? What's the need for this thread?

speakout4
01-18-2011, 07:24 PM
Comparing Rush and Roy is ridiculous. Rush is much more easily replaceable than a 7'2" center. I'm at a loss as how changing the coach will immensely improve things or that this is mental. Those are just too easy excuses.

That said we need to definitely keep Roy and give him more time to develop and yes he doesn't have to be our 1 and 2 options but merely a very decent complementary big man. i believe that we have our 1,3, and 5 players; we need the 2 and 4 guys. Hopefully George is the 2 but we need another really outstanding player and of course a better coach.

Justin Tyme
01-18-2011, 08:49 PM
I'm as frustrated with how Roy is playing as everyone else, BUT I hate to give up on Roy after watching him play in Nov. Maybe a better option would to trade for the X factor that could be a quality starting PF who plays the 5 as well. This way Roy can progress w/o feeling pressured to be more than he can at the present time with a good b/u who can take the pressure off Roy by playing the position with success.

Justin Tyme
01-18-2011, 08:57 PM
I hate to give up on Roy after watching him play in Nov. Maybe a better option would to trade for the X factor that could be a quality starting PF who plays the 5 as well. This way Roy can progress w/o feeling pressured to be more than he can at the present time with a good b/u who can take the pressure off Roy by playing the position with success.