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PacersPride
01-17-2011, 03:30 AM
No O'brien comments.

Collison - 2nd year player; good player who is young

Hibbert - 3rd year player; not ready to dominate

Hansbrough - answer at PF 2-3 years from now. sign David West

Rush - not the answer at SG. very good 6th man off the bench

George - has alot of talent. 2-3 years away, very raw.

McBob - backup in this league, but solid.

Dunleavy - shoots way too many 3's.

Pacers are not ready to compete this year. one year away with signing West.

the roster needs to be as follows:

pg: DC, Price
sg: Rush, George
sf: Granger
pf: West, Hansbrough
c: Hibbert, Foster, McBob

We are still one stud away. Do we wait for George to develop or go after a SG.

ZepZach
01-17-2011, 04:07 AM
I say wait for Paul George to develop. The word potential is used far too often, but seriously the roof for PG is incredibly high. He just looks like a stud when he is on the floor. I think he will reach a Paul Pierce level at least. hooray optimism.

PacersPride
01-17-2011, 04:14 AM
david west > z randolph

for this team. DC has familarity. less $. would prefer huge upgrade at pf and let george/ rush play sg.

we need an experienced vet stud pf. can settle with West though.

Sookie
01-17-2011, 02:11 PM
I'm still on the "get Iggy" and a solid PF train.

I don't want West. I'd be willing to give up any of our wings to get Iggy, besides Granger. (Despite the fact that I'm downright giddy about Paul George. I really don't see him being better than Iggy..and if we want to be an elite team with Granger, we don't have time to wait for PG. Regardless, a wing rotation of either PG/Granger/Iggy or Rush/Granger/Iggy would probably be the best in the league, on both sides of the ball.)

And a starting calibeer PF. Someone like NeNe.

Then you have Hans backup Nene and the PF, and Josh backup Hibbert at the C. They play well together, and that's a good energizing backup post unit.

Point guard, I think it's fine with DC and Price.

DrFife
01-17-2011, 02:37 PM
I'm still on the "get Iggy" and a solid PF train.

I don't want West. I'd be willing to give up any of our wings to get Iggy, besides Granger. (Despite the fact that I'm downright giddy about Paul George. I really don't see him being better than Iggy..and if we want to be an elite team with Granger, we don't have time to wait for PG. Regardless, a wing rotation of either PG/Granger/Iggy or Rush/Granger/Iggy would probably be the best in the league, on both sides of the ball.)

And a starting calibeer PF. Someone like NeNe.

Then you have Hans backup Nene and the PF, and Josh backup Hibbert at the C. They play well together, and that's a good energizing backup post unit.

Point guard, I think it's fine with DC and Price.

+1!!

Assume that we were to acquire Iggy (say, just for argument's sake, Dunleavy & two #1s) AND sign Nene this summer (after he opts out and after, say, a surprising end to a brief lockout). Also assume that we bring both McBob and Foster back (for the veteran's minimum) or sign a decent backup center with size so that McBob is the fourth or fifth big who backs up PF and C as needed. Okay, also assume that we also have a new coach who meets with your approval. Thus, our team would be:

C: Hibbert, Foster (or new 7'er), McBob
PF: Nene, Hans
SF: Granger, George, Posey
SG: Iggy, Rush, DJones, Lance
PG: Collison, Price

The question is: A year from now, two years from now, would this team be enough to contend for a championship? If not, what changes/additions do you think would be needed?

PacersPride
01-17-2011, 02:55 PM
Iggy may be unattainable, reports are Kevin Martin might be available and he always reminded me of Reggie Miller a little.

Not sure why but I dont like Nene, havent seen him play enough but I think he is kinda a selfish player looking to get paid. West strikes me as a vet with professionalism.

After the loss to Chicago the other night I realized this team is not ready. With 2-3 years of muscle added to Hansbro, he will be the answer at PF. George is just has all-star potential and thrilled with the selection by LEGEND.

Hibbert is just not ready to dominate; but he plays a tough position for young players not named Dwight Howard. Willing to be patient with Hibbert for two more seasons.

I like Dunleavy but ideally I believe he is best suited as a SF in this league, he is our most valuable expiring and I would be okay with him being dealt, per se in a Kevin Martin type deal.

imo Rush is officially not the answer at SG. He seems to lack the hunger or "assassain instinct." Ideal 6th man is his ceiling on a championship contender.

BringJackBack
01-17-2011, 03:00 PM
Igoudala isn't unattainable. I'm not sure I'd rather have in Martin or Igoudala though. One one hand you get that crazy defender/athlete, and he would have fit like a glove with our team in November, but ever since Hibbert and Granger started playing bad it seems like we could use Martin's scoring.

90'sNBARocked
01-17-2011, 03:01 PM
God in heaven am I the only one on this board that thinks Iggy is highly overrated?

Sookie
01-17-2011, 03:04 PM
+1!!

Assume that we were to acquire Iggy (say, just for argument's sake, Dunleavy & two #1s) AND sign Nene this summer (after he opts out and after, say, a surprising end to a brief lockout). Also assume that we bring both McBob and Foster back (for the veteran's minimum) or sign a decent backup center with size so that McBob is the fourth or fifth big who backs up PF and C as needed. Okay, also assume that we also have a new coach who meets with your approval. Thus, our team would be:

C: Hibbert, Foster (or new 7'er), McBob
PF: Nene, Hans
SF: Granger, George, Posey
SG: Iggy, Rush, DJones, Lance
PG: Collison, Price

The question is: A year from now, two years from now, would this team be enough to contend for a championship? If not, what changes/additions do you think would be needed?

It would really depend on
Collison/Price And Hibbert.

I've said I think that both Collison and Price will be "good starting quality PGs" If either one of them achieves that then we are set, and the other is a quality backup. If both of them do that, then we have a good problem. And if neither..then we've got an issue. (And things happen..kids stop developing, injuries happen, sometimes players just don't reach their potential.) I doubt it'll be a neither though. So I think we're okay there. Also, I don't believe you need an elite PG to win a title. I think you need a good one that knows how to run the show.

Now Hibbert is the bigger and more important question. Can he develope into an all star level center?

I think in order to compete you need 3 all star level players. You have that in Iggy and Granger, I think you need Hibbert to complete that. I think Hibbert has the skills and work ethic to be able to end up at that level. My question is if he has the mentality. But he's young right now.

I also think that all of these players compliment each other. Specifically..Granger and Iggy seem like a great pair. As does someone like NeNe with Hibbert. (Hibbert needs "an enforcer" next to him..) The only thing I will say, is that I doubt very much we get Iggy, without giving them either Paul George or Brandon Rush.

as for Martin, I'd be concerned about his defense. And I wouldn't be as willing to give up eithe PG or Rush for him because of it. But if they're willing to take TJ and a first rounder for him...:D

BringJackBack
01-17-2011, 03:04 PM
God in heaven am I the only one on this board that thinks Iggy is highly overrated?

Personally I think he'd do a lot better on a more talented team. When he's not a focal part of the offense, he's the picture perfect glue guy. He's capable of Battier/Bowen defense along with 3rd option offense on a good team.


He has always had a bad rep as a guy that can't shoot, but thats overblown.

aaronb
01-17-2011, 03:09 PM
+1!!

Assume that we were to acquire Iggy (say, just for argument's sake, Dunleavy & two #1s) AND sign Nene this summer (after he opts out and after, say, a surprising end to a brief lockout). Also assume that we bring both McBob and Foster back (for the veteran's minimum) or sign a decent backup center with size so that McBob is the fourth or fifth big who backs up PF and C as needed. Okay, also assume that we also have a new coach who meets with your approval. Thus, our team would be:

C: Hibbert, Foster (or new 7'er), McBob
PF: Nene, Hans
SF: Granger, George, Posey
SG: Iggy, Rush, DJones, Lance
PG: Collison, Price

The question is: A year from now, two years from now, would this team be enough to contend for a championship? If not, what changes/additions do you think would be needed?


The question then becomes "Is this core good enough that trading 2 future 1's make's sense"?

I personally don't think Iggy and Nene really makes us a contender around a Hibbert, Granger, Collision core. A 45-48 win team probably. But not a team that can win a title.

xBulletproof
01-17-2011, 03:17 PM
God in heaven am I the only one on this board that thinks Iggy is highly overrated?

Probably. What exactly is overrated? The guy has a history of averaging 17-20 points per. He can initiate offense and has an assist to turnover ratio of more than 3 to 1. His assist to turnover ratio is #6 in the NBA, actually. He also is an adequate rebounder. He also averages 2 steals per game, and just missed his first game in 4 years. He plays very good defense.

The only thing he isn't average or more at is as a long range shooter.

Where exactly do you think he's overrated?

PacersPride
01-17-2011, 03:27 PM
The question then becomes "Is this core good enough that trading 2 future 1's make's sense"?

I personally don't think Iggy and Nene really makes us a contender around a Hibbert, Granger, Collision core. A 45-48 win team probably. But not a team that can win a title.

DC, Price, Rush, George, Granger, Hansbro, McBob, Hibbert are all 25 or less with the exception of Granger who is only 27-28 and entering his prime. Im big on the West acquisition b/c of the familiarity DC has and he would cost less than either Z Bo or Nene.. considerably less. Yes Hansbro is the answer at PF but in 2-3 seasons. West is the perfect vet for this squad at the right price.

SG is a position we need to upgrade. Iggy, Martin, either would work for me. Trade Rush and Dunleavy and let George develop and may replace Granger at some point. I dont really know how that would work since I want to see us keep Danny.

To answer your question, im okay with trading draft picks that are likely to be 15th selection or lower.

We need butts in the seats next season. If West can be signed for 8-10 million, I might even take a run at Crawford for 3 years. We need some scoring and Martin or Iggy might not be available.

If we deal PG24 we better get a STUD. There are so many options for the Pacers, at least compared to previous seasons. We may not get a deal done that LEGEND likes, but i bet the phones will be active.

Hicks
01-17-2011, 03:32 PM
I think he is overrated, but if we're adding Iguodala AND Nene and we still have George, Granger, Hibbert, and Collison, I believe that's easily a 50+ win team. And that's regardless of if Jim is our coach.

PacersPride
01-17-2011, 03:40 PM
I think he is overrated, but if we're adding Iguodala AND Nene and we still have George, Granger, Hibbert, and Collison, I believe that's easily a 50+ win team. And that's regardless of if Jim is our coach.

Why Nene over West? Why pay Nene 14+ when West gets 10 or less for four seasons. Anyone know Nene's real name?

Sookie
01-17-2011, 03:42 PM
I think Iggy is a borderline all star player who would fit like a glove on this team. (Particularly next to Danny) He's not a franchise player. But Him and Danny would be quite a pair.

West, to me, is too much of a ball hog. He's also best at scoring. NeNe is a very good defensive PF, which I think Hibbert needs to play next to.

BringJackBack
01-17-2011, 03:43 PM
Some prefer Nene because he is a lot like the Enforcer. Very high field goal percentage, big time size, and defense.

flox
01-17-2011, 03:44 PM
I am a very big fan of NeNe. A hard worker, extremely efficient.

Brad8888
01-17-2011, 03:48 PM
Why Nene over West? Why pay Nene 14+ when West gets 10 or less for four seasons. Anyone know Nene's real name?

His original name prior to changing it was Nene Hilario.

BringJackBack
01-17-2011, 03:48 PM
With a .640 field goal percentage, I think extremely efficient is an understatement. :laugh:

flox
01-17-2011, 03:53 PM
With a .640 field goal percentage, I think extremely efficient is an understatement. :laugh:

I don't understand why this isn't getting more coverage. Stupid Melo trade.

PacersPride
01-17-2011, 03:56 PM
I think Iggy is a borderline all star player who would fit like a glove on this team. (Particularly next to Danny) He's not a franchise player. But Him and Danny would be quite a pair.

West, to me, is too much of a ball hog. He's also best at scoring. NeNe is a very good defensive PF, which I think Hibbert needs to play next to.

If NeNe is solid defensively. Sign me up.

PacersPride
01-17-2011, 04:01 PM
Ideally I would just LOVE to have Gordon / Griffen combo added to the blue and gold.

Sounds like NeNe as an enforcer would be excellent next to Hibbert. I like Martins' game though more than AI, even though he may fit well next to Granger, and both would play well next to George.

Anyone else think Martin resembles Reggie in any way.

aaronb
01-17-2011, 05:30 PM
Ideally I would just LOVE to have Gordon / Griffen combo added to the blue and gold.

Sounds like NeNe as an enforcer would be excellent next to Hibbert. I like Martins' game though more than AI, even though he may fit well next to Granger, and both would play well next to George.

Anyone else think Martin resembles Reggie in any way.


If the Plan is to really push for contention. Then I am all for a Nene and Kevin Martin or Nene and Iggy addition to the roster. I think I'd rather attempt to send Hansbro,Rush,Stephenson, McBob type pieces over multiple future picks though. Just my opinion.

I think it's more likely that we are clearing cap space to sit on it next year. Too much smoke about the Pacers losing money for us to think 20-25 in payroll is going to be coming back. As much as I'd like it to.

PacersPride
01-17-2011, 05:49 PM
If the Plan is to really push for contention. Then I am all for a Nene and Kevin Martin or Nene and Iggy addition to the roster. I think I'd rather attempt to send Hansbro,Rush,Stephenson, McBob type pieces over multiple future picks though. Just my opinion.

I think it's more likely that we are clearing cap space to sit on it next year. Too much smoke about the Pacers losing money for us to think 20-25 in payroll is going to be coming back. As much as I'd like it to.

Great points. Until the CBA is resolved I believe the Pacers will remain conservative.

pwee31
01-17-2011, 08:57 PM
:kickcan::sigh:

Hicks
01-18-2011, 01:34 AM
Why Nene over West? Why pay Nene 14+ when West gets 10 or less for four seasons. Anyone know Nene's real name?

Nene is his real name. It's a cultural thing, IIRC. He was Nene Hilario, but at some point dropped Hilario.

Why him over West? He gives us more of what we don't have than West. West is a good player, but his bread & butter is his mid range game (which is fine). I'd prefer Nene because while he too can shoot from midrange, he's bigger and more powerful than West, and in my opinion he can do well with us as both a power forward and a center. West is "just" a power forward.

The Rocker
01-18-2011, 04:33 AM
why Denver will trade starting center in prime? West also not realistic option

Wylder1324
01-18-2011, 08:01 AM
Im a BIG advocate of getting Iggy. I like Martin but A - Don't think he fits next to Danny well & B - Don't really think Houston is shopping him as much as people think that they are. Andre would be perfect next to Danny as a slashing SG who can create off teh dribble where Danny can't. I would even be willing to take on Brand's deal as long as Phili would take Posey & Dahntay. We get Brand, Iggy, Brackins & Phili gets Posey, Dunleavy, Ford, Dahntay & Solo. That works on trade machine and I would do it in a heartbeat. I would likely even offer a 1st rounder if thats what it took. If this happened we could probably still sign Nene in the off-season and IMO we are a team that could contend. This is a damn solid team. Brand's deal does suck but he still has another solid year after this one to contribute big mins if not 2 so his deal isn't completely unjustified and by moving Jones & Posey your not really paying that much more than we would have next season for them.

PG - Collison, Price
SG - Iggy, Rush, Stephenso
SF - Granger, George
PF - Nene, Hansbrough, Brackins
C - Hibbert, Brand, McBob

ZepZach
01-18-2011, 08:04 AM
Im a BIG advocate of getting Iggy. I like Martin but A - Don't think he fits next to Danny well & B - Don't really think Houston is shopping him as much as people think that they are. Andre would be perfect next to Danny as a slashing SG who can create off teh dribble where Danny can't. I would even be willing to take on Brand's deal as long as Phili would take Posey & Dahntay. We get Brand, Iggy, Brackins & Phili gets Posey, Dunleavy, Ford, Dahntay & Solo. That works on trade machine and I would do it in a heartbeat. I would likely even offer a 1st rounder if thats what it took. If this happened we could probably still sign Nene in the off-season and IMO we are a team that could contend. This is a damn solid team. Brand's deal does suck but he still has another solid year after this one to contribute big mins if not 2 so his deal isn't completely unjustified and by moving Jones & Posey your not really paying that much more than we would have next season for them.

PG - Collison, Price
SG - Iggy, Rush, Stephenso
SF - Granger, George
PF - Nene, Hansbrough, Brackins
C - Hibbert, Brand, McBob

If this were to happen, I would streak through Indianapolis. That would be amazing. :dance:

flox
01-18-2011, 10:19 AM
why Denver will trade starting center in prime? West also not realistic option

To rebuild after they lose Melo. They won't be contending. Move away starters for picks/youth.

King Phoenix
01-18-2011, 11:51 AM
I like the suggestions made on here. With west we become a very good offense. But if we have iggy we become a very defensive team as well, like what Denver could be if they tried for the past few years. Plus in my opinion west offensively is like an older more experienced hansbrough when it comes to the pnr and pnp.
Martin does in a lil way reminds you of Reggie. Good shot gets to the ft line etc. I haven't actually seen him play since sac tho. I remember he was averaging 10 ft attempts a game. That something if he can still do would be a huge lift to your offense and getting the defense in trouble

Nene would be a good fit thinking of it bu would probably cost to much and I jus rather have west next to collison. Wouldn't be against getting him. He could teach hibbert how to play bigger, ie throw it down.

I'm also ok with the iggy brand deal. But would really push to get iggy and smith from Atlanta. Rush is a 6th man like jones was in Denver. Pg is a beast so I'll keep him.

owl
01-18-2011, 12:04 PM
I believe there will be no trades at the deadline unless it is a dramatic piece that could be added. I believe they will drop as much salary as they can and wait until a new agreement is reached. Noone will be resigned. They will be in position to compete against other teams
if they want to sign one of their free agents.

owl
01-18-2011, 12:06 PM
I like the suggestions made on here. With west we become a very good offense. But if we have iggy we become a very defensive team as well, like what Denver could be if they tried for the past few years. Plus in my opinion west offensively is like an older more experienced hansbrough when it comes to the pnr and pnp.
Martin does in a lil way reminds you of Reggie. Good shot gets to the ft line etc. I haven't actually seen him play since sac tho. I remember he was averaging 10 ft attempts a game. That something if he can still do would be a huge lift to your offense and getting the defense in trouble

Nene would be a good fit thinking of it bu would probably cost to much and I jus rather have west next to collison. Wouldn't be against getting him. He could teach hibbert how to play bigger, ie throw it down.

I'm also ok with the iggy brand deal. But would really push to get iggy and smith from Atlanta. Rush is a 6th man like jones was in Denver. Pg is a beast so I'll keep him.

Would anyone trade Rush and George for Martin?

PacersPride
01-18-2011, 03:07 PM
Im a BIG advocate of getting Iggy. I like Martin but A - Don't think he fits next to Danny well & B - Don't really think Houston is shopping him as much as people think that they are. Andre would be perfect next to Danny as a slashing SG who can create off teh dribble where Danny can't. I would even be willing to take on Brand's deal as long as Phili would take Posey & Dahntay. We get Brand, Iggy, Brackins & Phili gets Posey, Dunleavy, Ford, Dahntay & Solo. That works on trade machine and I would do it in a heartbeat. I would likely even offer a 1st rounder if thats what it took. If this happened we could probably still sign Nene in the off-season and IMO we are a team that could contend. This is a damn solid team. Brand's deal does suck but he still has another solid year after this one to contribute big mins if not 2 so his deal isn't completely unjustified and by moving Jones & Posey your not really paying that much more than we would have next season for them.

PG - Collison, Price
SG - Iggy, Rush, Stephenso
SF - Granger, George
PF - Nene, Hansbrough, Brackins
C - Hibbert, Brand, McBob

This is a helluva a trade idea. Brand would do well for us while hansbro continues to learn; upgrades both sg/sf. If there were any chance phillly would not take george from us i would be in disbelief. prefer to give up a first rather than george.

The Rocker
01-19-2011, 01:16 AM
PG - Collison, Price
SG - Iggy, Rush, Stephenso
SF - Granger, George
PF - Nene, Hansbrough, Brackins
C - Hibbert, Brand, McBob
How it is possible?