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BornReady#6
01-16-2011, 01:10 PM
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/01/jan-vesely-i-will-enter-the-nba-draft/


Jan Vesely says he’s in the Draft. The 6-11, 20-year-old told SLAM Magazine that he will “enter the 2011 NBA Draft” and that he’s“ready for the NBA after this season.”

While Partizan is struggling a bit this season and Jan’s numbers have dropped a tad from last season, he’s shown some major advancements in his game. Through the film that we checked out on Synergy Sports Technology, he appears even more athletic and more polished as a shooter than last season. Vesely is spending time between the small and power forward spots for Partizan, though he says that he envisions himself as a “power forward” in the NBA. Donned “the European Blake Griffin” by many, he’s had no problem putting guys on posters and has more bounce than any true European in recent memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KxIxIsL2rE&feature=player_embedded#

This guy could be awesome as our 5, potentially.

BringJackBack
01-16-2011, 01:11 PM
Where is he projected? What is his game? Is he any good?

pacer4ever
01-16-2011, 01:13 PM
Where is he projected? What is his game? Is he any good?

TOP 10

ya he is decent but i have not seen a full game of his. He reminds me of Galiobody wise. But is way more athletic.

BringJackBack
01-16-2011, 01:14 PM
Is he soft?

pacer4ever
01-16-2011, 01:16 PM
Is he soft?

i dont but he plays SF he has good size for SF


read up on his game draft express is reallly good


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jan-Vesely-1402/

pacer4ever
01-16-2011, 01:17 PM
he aves 8 pts in 23 mins

pacer4ever
01-16-2011, 01:18 PM
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BornReady#6
01-16-2011, 01:22 PM
Most mocks, like cbs, fox, esp, and nbadraft.net, are projecting him top 20, going between 14-20.

Jonas Valanciunas (http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jonas-valanciunas)

Donatas Motiejunas (http://www.nbadraft.net/players/donatas-motiejunas)

These two guys look good too, but I really like Vesely, Motiejunas is special also.

xIndyFan
01-16-2011, 01:25 PM
Most mocks, like cbs, fox, esp, and nbadraft.net, are projecting him top 20, going between 14-20.

expect him to go in the lottery nearer to draft time. as the draft gets closer, the bigs usually project to go earlier.

Pacers4Life
01-16-2011, 03:03 PM
this kid is a total tool. Soft as a semi-melted marshmallow in lukewarm hot chocolate. I watched quite a few videos of him LAST year around draft time before he pulled out. But more importantly, he's a total doucher.. Acts cocky, makes dumb plays going for the literal "slam dunk" opportunity..

No thank you

pacer4ever
01-16-2011, 03:08 PM
this kid is a total tool. Soft as a semi-melted marshmallow in lukewarm hot chocolate. I watched quite a few videos of him LAST year around draft time before he pulled out. But more importantly, he's a total doucher.. Acts cocky, makes dumb plays going for the literal "slam dunk" opportunity..

No thank you

Ya i didnt like him much when i saw some footage of him also

SMosley21
01-16-2011, 03:16 PM
Comparing him to, or even mentioning his name in the same vein as Blake Griffin is a total joke. I'm sure he's the one calling himself the "European Blake Griffin". He would get put on his rear end in the NBA.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/060icu57ymbgn/x610.jpg

ballism
01-16-2011, 03:26 PM
Since Enes Kanter will probably go top 3-5 and be out of our reach, of internationals, I'd prefer Valanciunas. The youngest of them all, totally dominates his age group in international competition, has elite athleticism and likes to bang under the basket.

The downside, right now he looks like Kareem - tall and skinny - but has little range. On the upside, he's still growing, he'll probably turn out to be a legit 7 footer at draft measurements, and he will only hit 19 close to draft.
As for Vesely and Motiejunas, they might turn out very good, I don't know - I'd just prefer someone who's not scared to go inside and tough it out.

SMosley21
01-16-2011, 03:29 PM
I prefer we don't draft any of the European players.

Hicks
01-16-2011, 03:32 PM
Not impressed.

ballism
01-16-2011, 03:43 PM
I prefer we don't draft any of the European players.

Well, I suppose it depends on the quality of Pacers' overseas scouting. I mean, in terms of busts, there's as good a chance to draft an American bust as international. For every Skita there are 5 Adam Morrisons. Overseas drafting is an area where you can still gain an edge, if you are good at it. And this draft is an international draft. NCAA prospects seem very shaky right now, while there might be the most Euro talent in this draft ever.

The question then is, how good is Pacers' overseas scouting? They've been very successfull with college kids the last decade, and if that's where they invest their scouting resourses, I'd rather see them stick to it. If we look back and remember the whole Jasikevicius saga where Larry went to Israel to scout Saras himself numerous times and ended up with a bad signing, maybe Pacers aren't so good at it.

But if Pacers' overseas scouting is as strong as with college, I wouldn't mind a Euro at all. This might be the year for Euros. 4 of 5 most talented big men in the draft might be from Europe.

Merz
01-16-2011, 03:49 PM
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/01/jan-vesely-i-will-enter-the-nba-draft/



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KxIxIsL2rE&feature=player_embedded#

This guy could be awesome as our 5, potentially.

He's not a 5...not even potentially.

SMosley21
01-16-2011, 03:50 PM
If I had a choice between taking a European big man that we were unsure about or a college player who we feel confident about, regardless of position, I'd go with the talent and work things out later. I'm not a fan of drafting a player just because we need someone at that position, especially if they are an unknown. This being the year for Euros because college players are shaky, just seems bad to me. I'd rather trade the pick and get a known commodity than to pick a European prospect who's only in the draft because NCAA prospects didn't enter the draft.

pacer4ever
01-16-2011, 03:54 PM
If I had a choice between taking a European big man that we were unsure about or a college player who we feel confident about, regardless of position, I'd go with the talent and work things out later. I'm not a fan of drafting a player just because we need someone at that position, especially if they are an unknown. This being the year for Euros because college players are shaky, just seems bad to me. I'd rather trade the pick and get a known commodity than to pick a European prospect who's only in the draft because NCAA prospects didn't enter the draft.

Now thats false Veasely will get draft pretty high even if everyone comes out

Heisenberg
01-16-2011, 03:58 PM
I'm a lot more interested in getting STANKOOOO over here than spending a draft pick on any of the other Euro bigs. Who I admittedly know little about.

Psyren
01-16-2011, 04:00 PM
Doesn't at all impress me.

- Skinny
- Not really all that athletic except for dunks. I'd like to see him be able to step back and hit some shots/post up.
- People are saying he's cocky, and he doesn't appear able to back it up.
- On the vids I've watched, haven't seem him do anything but dunk.

He seems to have the attitude (kind of) of Tyler Hansbrough, except Hans has the build to play in this league.

If this kid comes to the NBA, he'll be put on his back literally every other play. He's not even close to strong enough for the NBA game.

I'll pass without a doubt.

SMosley21
01-16-2011, 04:06 PM
Now thats false Veasely will get draft pretty high even if everyone comes out

I wasn't referring to Vesley. I was referring to the other guy's point.

ballism
01-16-2011, 04:08 PM
If I had a choice between taking a European big man that we were unsure about or a college player who we feel confident about, regardless of position, I'd go with the talent and work things out later. I'm not a fan of drafting a player just because we need someone at that position, especially if they are an unknown. This being the year for Euros because college players are shaky, just seems bad to me. I'd rather trade the pick and get a known commodity than to pick a European prospect who's only in the draft because NCAA prospects didn't enter the draft.

I agree with this. I think the key is, how known the commodity is to the scouts. I couldn't care less if fans don't know a guy. The problem then is, we fans never know how much time our scouts spend on who, since that stuff is not disclosed. Maybe they know some Euro prospect from Euroleague better than any college freshman. I mean, most of the Euros are known for years, they play in a high profile competition, so there's a good chance some of them seem more of a 'sure thing' to scouts than college guys. Even if we fans have little clue about them.

As for the Euros entering weak drafts, that's kind of true. On the other hand, the salary system for rookies make it so difficult on international prospects, compared to Americans. A college player enters a draft as soon as he can get a decent draft position, gets drafted and collects paychecks. A Euro has to think about buyouts with his current team; if he's drafted a few spots lower, he might actually go broke while playing in the NBA. More over, if he starts slipping, the teams start wondering if he'll show up next year because of the buyout, so he slips some more. In the end, a Euro might end up drafted in a position where it's not even worth to come over for many years, because he makes much more in Europe, and can't afford a buyout. So yeah, they have to pick the years, which makes years like 2011 crowded with Euro talent. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Hey, it gives more time for scouts.

SMosley21
01-16-2011, 04:14 PM
I'm just stubborn in this area. I don't want us drafting a Euro player unless we know for sure he's' the next Dirk, lol.

BornReady#6
01-16-2011, 06:33 PM
I'm not saying any of you are right or wrong, but the fact is this guy can play basketball. I wish we could sticky threads like this and go back and discuss them in 2 years. Ill agree he is no Blake Griffin, but he is working hard and doing his thing, so I cant hate on him.

Marlin
01-16-2011, 06:38 PM
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/01/jan-vesely-i-will-enter-the-nba-draft/



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KxIxIsL2rE&feature=player_embedded#

This guy could be awesome as our 5, potentially.

Well, he's not nor he'll ever be a 5 in any league. He just can't take the toll at the position, even if he's not as soft as some of you make him out to be. He sure is skinny, that's pretty obvious, but then again so is Prince and I don't recall anyone calling him soft.
His position is gradually shifting to PF here in Europe, even if he grew up as a 3..which was also the position he mostly played last year due to having some serious competition at the 4. But he really hasn't the handles to be any respectable team's small forward, and can't create his own shot.
I gotta disagree about his athleticism tho, meaning dunking is not the only thing he can do: I don't have his numbers at hand, but I can tell you he's a pretty good rebounder as far as athleticism go (he sure has to improve his positioning and box out skills), can play good help defense, and hustles his *** off -for the most part. His big issue are fouls, and especially his last year's Euroleague was plagued by that. Shooting won't be a problem, instead.

Actually, if I had to make a comparison, I think Prince is a good choice. A very raw Prince, make it, who needs to grow his basketball IQ a few levels -more than a few, IMHO, he knows he's athletic and relies too much on it, see the positioning point above-, not to mention his body. For a reason or another, he's really a different type of player than Griffin and Gallinari, I'll never get how he can be compared to those two other than a) he jumps a lot or b) he's European.

At the moment, barring some exceptional burst in the second half of the season, I wouldn't draft him. First because he's the total opposite of what the Pacers need, and second because I don't like that type of game. Not that the P's need him, but I'd rather have Motiejunas if we're talking about Euro bigs.

Finally, just out of curiosity since I read many of you saw him play, where do you guys see him in America? Do they stream Euroleague basketball or Euro ball in general? Honest question here, didn't think you cared that much :p

Trophy
01-16-2011, 06:40 PM
Well, hopefully we're not in lottery debating if we should take him or not.

If he is actually a potential lottery guy.

MaxDems
01-17-2011, 08:09 AM
I also agree that an european player should not be drafted just because he is european and may become the next dirk or the next parker.

Scouting a european is different than scouting an american for many reasons :
1/ The style is different, europe is less physical and teams defend more in zone than in individual.
2/ We don't have great local youngs championship (18yo - 22yo), so the best youngs play immediately with the professionals, so they are not the first option in their teams like it can be the case in NCAA, so they don't have great stats.

Then, it becomes dangerous to draft an european player, i'd say it's like drafting a player from high school instead of a player from NCAA.


In general, the european prospect are dafted too young. Nba teams should wait that they play at least 3 years in Europe with a good amount of minutes.

I'm french so I can take the examples of french players :
1/ Bad choices :
- Alexis Ajinca : 1 year in Europe : 5 ppg
- Kevin Seraphin : 1 year in Europe : 6 ppg
- Ian Mhainmi : 3 years in Europe : 6ppg, 9ppg, 4ppg : no improvement

2/ Good choices :
- Tony Parker : 2 years in Europe : 4ppg, 15ppg
- Mickael Pietrus : 4 years in Europe : 4ppg, 8ppg, 8ppg, 10ppg
- Nicolas Batum : 3 years in Europe : 3ppg, 5ppg, 12ppg
- Rodrigues Beaubois : 2 years in Europe : 5ppg, 10ppg


While I'm writting I realize that in fact it's more difficult for europeen big men because of the physical change between europe and nba.

ballism
01-17-2011, 08:48 AM
they are not the first option in their teams like it can be the case in NCAA, so they don't have great stats

Then, it becomes dangerous to draft an european player, i'd say it's like drafting a player from high school instead of a player from NCAA.



Ok, this is where I lost you. You mean, Euroleague scouting is similar to HS, and college stats translate to NBA? Adam Morrison?


While I'm writting I realize that in fact it's more difficult for europeen big men because of the physical change between europe and nba.

Indeed, NCAA is physically similar to NBA.


In general, the european prospect are dafted too young. Nba teams should wait that they play at least 3 years in Europe with a good amount of minutes.

If Europe gives you all these bad habbits and makes you soft, wouldn't it make sense to draft them young and bring them over, instead of letting them develop in Europe? Your conclusion just seems to contradict all of your statements.

ballism
01-17-2011, 09:06 AM
Btw, I do think it's better to bring the players over young and develop them in the NBA. There are exceptions, there are bad and good coaches both in Europe and NBA. But as a general rule, I'd say Europe can give quite a few of bad habbits, especially for the most talented big guys.


europe is less physical

But not because "Europe is not physical", that's BS. To the opposite. For one, there's handchecking in Europe when it comes to perimeter. Secondly, when it comes to boxing out under the basket, you are allowed to use your arms way more than according to NBA rules.
Which leads to two things:
(a) bad boxing out habbits, which leads to fouls in the NBA. You may be the toughest C in Europe, but in the NBA you are going to get a lot of fouls for your old box out habbits at first, which may make you hesitant and get you thinking too much, which in turn makes you look soft-ish. Marc Gasol had that problem at first in the NBA. He used his hands way too much trying to fight for rebounding position.
(b) range game. Rules are tougher in Europe, while on the other hand shooting 3s is very rewarding. 3 pt line is way closer, getting to the basket is tough, getting a good position under the basket is even tougher. So if you can make Euro 3s, you fall in love with them. Which leads to way too many jump shooting big men.

In the end, Euro experience can be a good or a bad thing. You can have a Sabonis or Pau, who isn't scared of physicality under the basket and can also knock down a jumper. Or more often you can have a Bargnani, who is afraid of post game and has no clue how to box out for rebounds in NBA.

Either way, my point is, the idea that 'Euroleague is soft' shows cluelessness. On the other hand, Euroleague does give you some habbits if you stay too long, and that's not always a good thing. I think it's better to draft guys who will come over right away and develop them.

MaxDems
01-17-2011, 09:28 AM
Ok, this is where I lost you. You mean, Euroleague scouting is similar to HS, and college stats translate to NBA? Adam Morrison?
I don't say that college stats translate to nba. I just say that it's easier to produce nice stats in college than in Europe with professional players that are 10 years older.



If Europe gives you all these bad habbits and makes you soft, wouldn't it make sense to draft them young and bring them over, instead of letting them develop in Europe? Your conclusion just seems to contradict all of your statements.
In general, those young players that are not ready are benched in NBA. So I don't see how they can improve in the bench. Then, it's still better to play more in Europe. The history proves it.
1/ Look at the draft 2002 with Tskitishvili and Krstić. They are both born in 1983. the first comes in NBA in 2002, the other in 2004 and Krstić still plays in NBA while nobody remember Tskitishvili.
2/ There is also the case Milicic who joined the nba at 18yo.

I add one comments about my "less physical in Europe" theory : it's the young championship that is really not physical.
NBA > Europe professional > Europe young championship
So if you go immediately in nba, you'll be destroy.
If you make some years in Europe as professional, it allows you to adapt progressively.

MaxDems
01-17-2011, 09:50 AM
Euroleague does give you some habbits if you stay too long, and that's not always a good thing.

Sure, I agree here. That's why i was just talking about playing 3 years (maybe 4) in Europe (from 18yo to 22yo), that's still young for the nba :)

xIndyFan
01-17-2011, 09:58 AM
don't know about vesely, but pacer could use a euro player. or at least a big with a euro skill set. make a nice high low or low high post thing with roy.

dohman
01-17-2011, 10:09 AM
Josh Mcroberts can dunk over people to. He also does not look like he has a teenage girls body.

Being 6'11 and athletic in the euro league means your going to DUNK A LOT! What it does not mean is that your a elite nba talent worthy of going top 10

ballism
01-17-2011, 10:21 AM
I don't say that college stats translate to nba. I just say that it's easier to produce nice stats in college than in Europe with professional players that are 10 years older.



And this leads you to say, that scouting Europe is like scouting HS, but totally unlike scouting NCAA? Umm? That's why I don't understand your point, I just don't think scouting is about looking at average stat line at the end of the year.


In general, those young players that are not ready are benched in NBA. So I don't see how they can improve in the bench. Then, it's still better to play more in Europe. The history proves it.

How is this different from Americans? You are talented, you get minutes, you improve, you get more minutes. There's 82-110 games with 48 minutes each. If you are any good, you'll get minutes. If you aren't any good, you won't get minutes on a decent Euroleague team either, it's not NBDL; there's way less games, way less minutes, and noone cares about developing a young guy who's going to leave soon anyway.

Has Euro experience helped Splitter so much? You think he wouldn't get his 11 mpg if he came over to the NBA 3 years ago instead of waiting to become the best Spanish league player?
Remember Frederic Weis, the top Euro pick back in 1999? Has waiting helped him in any way?
What about Bostjan Nachbar or Jiri Welsh from Skita's draft? They also came to NBA with major Euro experience, a la Krstic, where are they now?
Check out Ricky Rubio. The man could be the starting PG from day 1 in Minnie, instead he is regressing now in Barcelona. He doesn't even penetrate to the basket anymore. How is it helping his NBA carreer?
The list goes on and on. It's ignorant to say that history proves it's better to play in Europe. There are plenty of examples both ways.

If you are good, you go to NBA, no matter if you are from Europe or NCAA. There's no overwhelming benefit in spending years in Europe. NBA teams have great coaching staff, the infrastructure, and it treats and teaches you as a long term investment.



I add one comments about my "less physical in Europe" theory : it's the young championship that is really not physical.
NBA > Europe professional > Europe young championship

Europe young championship? What do you mean? You mean FIBA cups for juniors, as in Worlds, Euro, Pan American cups for U-16, U-18, U-20? Those are summer events, and Americans from HS/NCAA take part in them too. Nothing to do with playing in European leagues.